Micro 974.1: Dung Beetle Redux (Game Over)

[Bunno]

[Bunno]

btw I've decided to not vote for fluff stuff in this game in hopes of getting a higher scum-voting-history by the end

I was inspired to adopt the style after a very recent encounter

so yeah I probably will only vote when I'm confident on something

[Bunno]

iM nOt A gArDeNeR

this isn't serious right?

[Bunno]

Taly vote norwe for me pls

he hasn't suffered enough for betraying us in the previous run

I only hope he isn't gonna betray me again because in that scenario I would need to disown him from the weeb family

[Bunno]

iM nOt A gArDeNeR

this isn't serious right?

depends, you think claiming

gardener/not gardener

is a good idea here?

HmhmHmhm

I'm thinking if I can do even smarter things here so for now I would like to hold on claims

[Bunno]

Schrödinger's Lovers

was both successful and a failure in the previous run I guess

In the first night, it was likely that John would be able to operate the doctor, but since there was no other doctor it didn't mean much. It's not like I hadn't realized the fact that there's that possibility, or the fact that if we pick a "both-doctors" pair, and both waste their operation together, our chances of getting Dr.Zenkawa operated gets to pretty much zero since we would need four doctors to exist at minimum in the game.

It's a good plan overall though, I'm just thinking if I can do better here.

[Bunno]

Of course I hadn't said that hoping mafia wouldn't realize it by themselves, but I may have better ideas for this game hmm

[Bunno]

I'll describe a plan when I've settled on one I think. If you mean you do have a plan you're free to share, but I highly, highly, highly suggest you read the previous game

We talked a lot about mech stuff there from pages 7 to 13 especially. I'm super not in the mood to repeat myself to be honest.

[Bunno]

Man we woulda wrecked that last game so hard

I basically consider it a win tbh

[Bunno]

I'm super not in the mood to repeat myself to be honest.

I mean by explaining why the plan is bad

By the way I would have explained a few things after I got the bug in the last game, but I'll explain now:

The "mafia has a natural 25% ~ 33% chance of winning this if we go along with the [sentries steal bug at night plan], because mafia can target someone in the potential sentries group with a [Steal & NK], potentially winning in N1" thingy was a white lie.

I told it to get the bug, and because of some other reasons, but you can understand that it's a lie when you look at the natural order of resolution:

Mafia Roleblock
Gardener Prevent
Sentry Defend
Sentry Guard
Surgeon Heal

Mafia Kill

Sentry Steal

Mafia Steal
Gardener Investigate
Surgeon Operate

The mafia NK is resolved before the steals actions, therefore even if they attempt to [kill & steal] from a potential sentry that would get the bug, the kill would be resolved before the mod would count the sentries/mafia steal actions. Therefore there is very low odds that mafia would get the bug in N1 if there's at least 2 sentries. It's basically impossible for them to get if there's 3 sentries and all of them steal during the night.

It's possible to lose by having only one sentry though, and I felt like it would simply be better if I would get the bug myself there but...

I don't really feel like getting the bug here, It's too effort consuming to town tell as hard as I did in the past game, fight off suspicious, keep replying to people, etc. I'm ok being more of a side character here.

I'm honestly a bit tired overall.

[Bunno]

this thread died fast...

[Bunno]

you should feel for me

i was so happy that i rolled scum

and now
poof
i'm boring old town again

this is LAMIST but it may be actually good posting because in the previous scumt pt, the first thing TGP said was "This is so exciting norwe!"

[Bunno]

smoke = pookey

mirros = nancy

tgp thanks for the heal but I'm not sure I want it like I said

[Bunno]

The huge benefit of sentries going from steal mode to defense is that Gardeners investigations are actually useful, and anyone trying to steal when sentries are supposed to defend is very probably scum.

[Bunno]

In post 33, Smoke and Mirrors wrote:
I would've filed an official protest with Isis if SS decided to re-roll me as a scum into the game :3

-Smoke



VOTE: smoke and mirrors
this is scum

from 0 to 10 how likely do you think they are scum over that post?

[Bunno]

but you're also supposed to be a 1000iq scum player so hm

I don't dislike the recent paranoia

keep at it guys



p-edit: maybe

[Bunno]

Does this feel intensely harder to anyone else?

first post that I actually think it's good from you

in the previous game I was town leaning your ~vibe~ in general but this one seems like a good post by itself

why do you think this feels harder though?

[Bunno]

HEAL: bunno

Again, I don't see the benefit of this early on.

It seems too risky.

He said he was doing it to figure me out apparently, I don't think he means it for real

it's arguably way of producing reactions since I said I didn't really want the bug here

why do you think it's necessarily bad/risky when no one seems that inclined on just speed-electing me here?

[Bunno]

Does this feel intensely harder to anyone else?

first post that I actually think it's good from you

in the previous game I was town leaning your ~vibe~ in general but this one seems like a good post by itself

why do you think this feels harder though?

Like, we had a plan last time and it just doesn't feel viable now. Now I'm just staring at the setup like "how do we get what we want"

ok I retract the fact I thought it was necessarily a good post

why doesn't the plan feels viable? It's still the same setup as before. I just asked for time to think on if I can do something better.

[Bunno]

Because the problems are more apparent now

I think I already have a solution for the hugest one on it, but we still have time

I'm considering some other things

[Bunno]

I also wanted to bring back my favorite Bunno gif from the previous game because it seems quite fitting.

random survey questions

that is your favorite gif but how much did you appreciate the gifs I posted in general?

Any suggestion on what you would like to see in the future?

What gifs did you dislike?

Anyone else can answer this very very important survey btw

[Bunno]

I think nancy just assassinated mobile people

rest in peace slow/limited internet users

[Bunno]

The magician girl makes me smile though

it's such a cute gif

I hope I get to use it again someday

[Bunno]

thanks for answering the survey though Nancy

you've hopefully contributed to make my gif shitposting better

[Bunno]

It's not bad but I'm not sure it's any more optimal than the old plan, you still have roughly the same percentage and roughly the same amount of people to claim

I would argue it's worse because gardeners picked up won't save any abilities, and there's a possible combination of two gardeners. In the old plan a pair of two sentries was suboptimal but they still had likely a steal saved therefore they could hope to confirm themselves later, but in this case the gardeners picked up don't save anything.

[Bunno]

Yes I think the most safe/optimal play here is

Night 1:

Doctors heal Caretaker

Sentries Defend

Gardeners Investigate

If anyone shows up to have attempted stealing they're likely scum.

Sentries could Guard rather than Defend, but if they save their "defend" move, it's gonna conflict with sentries saved up steals, therefore counter-intuitive.

The maximum damage that can happen in N1 in this scenario is having the caretaker dead by there not being doctors, but that should tells us important info, and make us give up on hopes of operating Dr.Zerakawa.

[Bunno]

What can be optimized to the above is having a plan to hopefully coordinate some surgeons to operate on Zen, and sentries to save steal which can make them conftown/protect the bug later. I don't think you should worry about this though, I do think I'm in the right track already.

[Bunno]

Why you not thinking spicy this time Bun?

that's the base of the plan

after you've the base of something you add the spice

I'm still choosing what kind of spice I want to add to it

[Bunno]

Are the Gardener and Sentry abilities going to be untouched?

sentry defends n1 to allow investigations

gardeners investigating whoever they suspect is probably +ev town rather than ramdomizing it

sus people deserve more investigation after all

[Bunno]

Cowards play. NAI

I hope you aren't talking about me

I don't really feel like getting the bug here, It's too effort consuming to town tell as hard as I did in the past game, fight off suspicious, keep replying to people, etc. I'm ok being more of a side character here.

I'm honestly a bit tired overall.

This is oof, but i’ll give you a chance to towntell.

define oof

[Bunno]

And I don’t know your history with Pooky but you don’t have hardly any with me prior to this game. I am going to make reads on whomever tf I see fit and I don’t need either their blessing or confidence to do so.

No offense intended, but i have a long history of people reading me wrong. And you seem the type.

The VT thing was probably genuinely NAI

Maybe slightly scum indicative because norwe would care less to read the setup as scum but I don't think it was something to completely determine his alignment there

[Bunno]

S&M you're only making norwe harder to read with this push imo

I do think there's a chance norwe would try to open this game with more effort than last round, but trying to pressure him in early game will only give him an excuse in how and why engage with the thread

The easiest way for scum!norwe to pass posts off as content is if someone picks a shitty fight with him so he only needs to keep replying to that person vs having a natural progression on reads, votes, etc.

If you want to keep pressuring him like this it's up to you, but you're genuinely making him way less readable to me so I recommend you to stop. I don't think norwe did anything heavily scum indicative yet.

[Bunno]

I'm and I'm disappointed that people think I'll not try to do something spicy here

Idk why you expect me to immediately act on things, dunno if you noticed but I thought a good while before making my move in last game. It was just less notable.

[Bunno]

As long as you keep talking with him you're giving him a way out of actually posting content nancy

that's the important part

scum!Norwe can 1v1 you all day just as can town!Norwe

It's harder for scum!Norwe to fake a smooth progression like town!Norwe usually develops though

[Bunno]

If I'm recalling on the meta I have with people, I have several reads with solid confidence right now.

eh

now that's something unusual

let's see those reads

[Bunno]

there's someone doing something slightly scum indicative that I've seen in their scum games but I'll wait because I don't feel that confident I've nailed their meta

[Bunno]

So, I don’t understand why Bunno is saying the opposite of that. Especially after MY recent posts. Did you read those? @Bunno?

I mean idk what to say nancy

this isn't trying to put you down but I think I'm the most familiar with norwe meta, so much that I was the first to catch him in the past game

I'm telling you that you're making it actively easier for norwe to fake his posts rather than leaving you alone. I already explained why.

If you think forcing interactions with all players is the best way to go, that's on you, but I'm actively telling you that it's easier to read Norwe in the long-run by giving him space to do whatever he wants to do, when he wants to do, and how he wants to do it.

Notice I didn't mention norwe a lot until I noticed a pattern in the past game. If I called him out too early he simply would have kept posting and it would be harder to convince everyone.

I think one of the reasons he instantly gave up on hope in the past game was because I had exactly nailed why he was scum vs making a bad argument he could fight back (like you're honestly doing here)

[Bunno]

there's someone doing something slightly scum indicative that I've seen in their scum games but I'll wait because I don't feel that confident I've nailed their meta

Okay, I kind of see your point. I still don’t understand how you think I should respond to him though?

~M

don't reply to him

literally talk friendly to him and let him try to solve the game by himself for a time. If you SR him don't tell him yet. Save up your reasons.

wait 4 days or so

Unless he's willing to go to greater lenghts of effort to not be suspected again, it would be a lot clear on wheter it's town!Norwe or scum!Norwe especially contrasting with his previous game.

[Bunno]

Norwe was beginning his trajectory by voting Professor Mafia and you just effectively stopped potential alignment telling in its tracks

[Bunno]

there's someone doing something slightly scum indicative that I've seen in their scum games but I'll wait because I don't feel that confident I've nailed their meta

Okay, I kind of see your point. I still don’t understand how you think I should respond to him though?

~M

it's not norwe

[Bunno]

The person doing scum indicative thingy isn't norwe I meant

Idk about replying about him

I suggest you both stop the pointless 1v1 on "I can read you", "No u can't" and if one of you begins to do it intensely again we treat as scum-indicative

like, I expect town!Norwe to still tell you that you and some other people are shit at reading them, and you to tell him he's wrong, but I feel like you guys are posting way too much about this

[Bunno]

He was discrediting us for no good reason whatsoever but you still didn’t tell me how you think I should respond to that?

What “bad” argument did you think I made? I said, I believe I will be able to confidently read him, if/when he makes reads on players independent of their read on him and I 100% stand by that and nothing he says is going to change that.

- VT thingy was NAI

- I don't think Pooky necessarily can read Norwe

That said maybe I misrepped you a bit in the convo, I just don't like your posting with norwe because it's making him actively unreadable to me so I wanted you to stop at all costs

Look let's move on, what do you think of Taly already having reads?

[Bunno]

So to make myself unreadable to Bunno i need to pick shitfights.
Interesting...
Veeeeryy interesting.

if you constantly picked shitfights though now I know it would be scum indicative

[Bunno]

It's not only you though

Maybe this is "mafia-play-tutorial" but it's usually a lot easier to post and fake town tell when you're having a shitfight and I know as a fact that scum often exploit it when I get a tunnel on them or in general

The longer the drama of a 1v1 goes on, the more people will think "eh maybe it's town" due to the fact they are absolutely tired of the conflict. It becomes so annoying and boring to watch that people often ends up defaulting it to TvT, and mafia doesn't need to do anything other than keep insisting on a point or post "no u".

In Chiptune (my mafia game against Taly), I hard tunneled her because it was easier to fake a trajectory, I would have tunneled as town though, but the tunnel probably would have felt more natural if I was town. Idk.

[Bunno]

If someone is under scrutinity for a long time during dayphase but fails to amount actual suspicious, it's very hard to change town mind about it later, because they'll be tired & fed up about the subject

I intentionally did that to Wicked in C9++ so that he would get an easier pass later

#understandingtownmeta with bunno

p-edit: no Taly, I'm only speaking about mafia theory because I'm bored atm

[Bunno]

Taly usually has reads early. When I can follow his thought process it’s good and I like the conviction he’s showing in them. I have seen his scumgame and so far it doesn’t look like that here.

~M

Does scum!Taly has no early reads in that case?

This feels a bit weak to be honest, both from you and Norwe

[Bunno]

I don't think Taly has done anything he couldn't do as scum

I feel you're town reading Taly aura more than the content itself but that's just my 2 cents

what is

your

opinion about this Taly? Do you think your opening here so far is AI?

[Bunno]

wait norwe

is that shinobu

using shinobu against me is cheating

I can't eliminate someone with a shinobu avi

[Bunno]

I'm not the kind to try to separate a 1v1 unless it gets ugly, I think

If you pick a fight with anyone other than Norwe I would let you two battle it out but I only pointed it out because you're making Norwe less readable to me

If I'm confident on my Norwe read I plan to give him the bug maybe

See? It's important

I did need to stop it

[Bunno]

I've now the same impression of John that this game feels a bit harder for some reason

It's for different reasons though, mechanically I don't see the difference but somehow I feel out of touch with this game

I do wonder if it's a weird side-effect of having the same game run with the same game back-to-back.

I don't have fuzzy warm feelings on S&M, Taly and John atm, they were my core there even though I didn't fully trust any of them.

I never thought I would say this but the best slot to me atm may as well be TGP. omega lol?

(To people not familiar with TGP, he has a VERY HIGH RATE of being scum read as town, and I don't think I've ever had a game where he was in the top of my town reads)

[Bunno]

same game run with the same game back-to-back.

same game with the same people*

(more or less, there's two new slots I guess)

[Bunno]

EBWOP:

He specifically requested I not 1v1 with you for now.

Yeah. I wasn't saying i was going to continue the fight. I was joking about when i'm scum in the future VS Bunno i might try picking shitfights to confuse Bunno.

The real anti-bunno tactic is to use my favorite characters as avi because I'm genuinely at least 30% or 25% less likely to want to eliminate someone using a cute avatar of them

I'm not even joking

[Bunno]

You're learning well...maybe I should begin to worry about it hmmm

[Bunno]

EBWOP:

He specifically requested I not 1v1 with you for now.

Yeah. I wasn't saying i was going to continue the fight. I was joking about when i'm scum in the future VS Bunno i might try picking shitfights to confuse Bunno.

The real anti-bunno tactic is to use my favorite characters as avi because I'm genuinely at least 30% or 25% less likely to want to eliminate someone using a cute avatar of them

I'm not even joking

Was it you or Eve who threatened to wagon us in Doubles if we didn’t change our avatar?

~M

Me

you weren't the unique one I threatened during my two years here

I've one experience of being successful in making someone use a cute avi though

I said that their wagon would dismantle if them turned into a cute mouse girl (they had a cartoon mouse avi before), and the wagon

actually

dismantled.

Anime is tactically advantageous.

[Bunno]

I'm shitposting way too much in this game but idk what else to do

this game feels fairly more boring than me 1v1'ing bugspray to be honest

I'm not sure I do miss bugspray's logic though...

probably not...

[Bunno]

I'm shitposting way too much in this game but idk what else to do

this game feels fairly more boring than me 1v1'ing bugspray to be honest

I'm not sure I do miss bugspray's logic though...

probably not...

Wow. Now i feel like... way more depressed than you'd imagine.

NOOO

I mean bored in terms of content, I don't have any reads or takes.

shitposting

here is super fun

but I don't feel that interested in solving the game atm to be honest. Take this part as you desire.

[Bunno]

The unique slot I feel like hyper solving is norwe so that I can give the bug to him and we keep spamming the thread together

Norwe don't be sad I didn't mean I'm not enthusiastic about playing with you. I was talking about game content.

[Bunno]

I'm always impressed by how seppuku was so common in Old Japan

Like, you would think people would be more hesitant to cut their stomachs open and die in agony, especially given I don't think they believed in any religion that there was an afterlife or reward for doing so, but they still would take their own lives when requested. Some would run away but it's impressive that people would do it at all I feel. Extremely painful way of passing.

[Bunno]

I'm always impressed by how seppuku was so common in Old Japan

Like, you would think people would be more hesitant to cut their stomachs open and die in agony, especially given I don't think they believed in any religion that there was an afterlife or reward for doing so, but they still would take their own lives when requested. Some would run away but it's impressive that people would do it at all I feel. Extremely painful way of passing.

You should try to find and watch a movie called Harakiri, it deals a lot with this subject and it's also very entertaining if you're interested in Japanese culture.
It's from 1962 so an old film, but many older Japanese films are honestly amazing.

I may watch it

[Bunno]

Ok I'm off to lurk

To the people remaining,

peace peace

~

[Bunno]

Nope you can't fix me Taly

I don't get your problem with my town lean being TGP. It doesn't matter who is town inside [Taly/Johnny/SM], I can't bring myself to put any of you above null or nullscum so far.

In the past game, almost 1/3 of all the game posts were mine. I intentionally lied to you guys in the past game to get the things I wanted, I intentionally hyperposted strategy, solving, etc to get the bug but I'm not interested here.

Dunno if Nancy remembers but my play here may be closer to that of Nibbui's in the first run of Mystery Box of Silver, after the first pages I pretty much became disinterested in keeping up appearences and focused on shitposting/having fun with duck until I felt confident on a solve (I was doing work behind the scenes, but no one saw it until later in the day). I plan to do similar here, I no longer hold interest on taking the bug therefore my other main objective here is to have fun with Norwe rather than stress myself trying to progress the game alone.

If you think voting me is gonna change the above, you're wrong. Your voting feels forced either because it's in bad-faith or because you do have hopes I'm gonna react with anything other than "meh" to it.

[Bunno]

Whose alt are you

I used to have a habit of spectating games so I've read games you were in but I wasn't, I never got a good impression of your posts because I would often not agree with the logic in it (it was kinda like bugspray but to a much lesser extent). One game I played with you though was Mastina's Lynch All The Wolves.

In the first pages of the game you were already being suspected by one of your first posts.

[Bunno]

They are Volpe14/Churros/Nibbui etc etc...

Oh and Fumuki, almost forgot that one.
I'm super hyped for Amnesia Rebirth releasing in just a couple hours. I've got it pre-downloaded on steam already but i can't play it until it's exact release date arghhhhh.
I really love horror games.

Wut

Didn't you dislike horror visual novels for example?

[Bunno]

About your setup strategy it isn't bad but it doesn't solve the problems of the old one (two surgeons in one night firing off makes unlikely we can ever get doctor operated), and the fact that there's a possibility of having a gardener on it (gardeners don't benefit whatsoever of being secluded in a group), makes it less optimal than the old strategy

I feel like you guys are trying to recreate a similar strategy to mine but rather than addressing the problems I pointed out with my old strategy you're making a slightly worse version of it.

[Bunno]

i feel like there's an inordinate amount of focus being placed on the low odds of a Dr. Zenkava investigation

My old plan made it so that there's likely 50% chances everynight that the doctor gets operated, overall making it possible to have a 25% chance of it being successful in N2.

If you managed somehow to make all lovers pairs town during the three nights, there's a 50% chance of auto-win in Day 4.

Not exactly low odds. In fact in our first game, the first operation was likely going to be a success and the unique thing stopping the plan was the very unfortunate fact that there wa no other surgeon to operate. But if there was, we probably would have eliminated Norwe Day 1, and exposed TGP by operating Dr.Z .

[Bunno]

Is the strategy you're talking about the one where all gardeners claim?

no lol

It's the Lovers Plan. I don't think you may even have read it all things considered last game.

[Bunno]

I think the unique game where scum actually did play around my gambits was in a marathon modded by Ircher

Both me and duck began lying about PRs results to each other in a very amusing mind game that no one understood until we explained after game end (we both lost because he was scum and I was Dark Town, but Light Town won the game due to mostly my efforts tbh).

It's still one of my favorite moments in mafia to this day. I would love to see that setup played again.

[Bunno]

I feel that marathon games are more memorable to me than some regular games, because they had so many fun mechanics. Especially those modded by ircher, a mad scientist.

I remember as well one where everyone was a roleblocker and the game strategy everyone was going with was to block night kills. They lynched my partner day 1 and I actually thought for a moment it was an auto-lose, until figuring out in the very last minute of night actions (I think the night was around 2 to 5 minutes long), a strategy to guilty a townie and win the game.

The funniest one was one which me/duck were scum together and convinced town in multiple days to no eliminate or eliminate people that had claimed unlynchable, while setting me up to take the fall because my role was Princess, which made scum have an extra night. We were arsonists so ducked dorsed the entire town during those days and insta-killed everyone.

It was glorious.

[Bunno]

Unhappily the first game could be even more amusing but Ircher did for some reason set a really tight deadline of 5 minutes because he thought the game was won when duck was outted.

But If I had more time that day, I would have conspirated with duck to bring the Light Townies down (Since I was the Dark Town Leader), just as duck would have tried to fool me into a plan for him, as outted scum, to win (He was a Arsonist + Poisoner).

It would be double glorious but unhappily, it was a marathon after all. There wasn't enough time to discuss it.

[Bunno]

They are Volpe14/Churros/Nibbui etc etc...

Oh and Fumuki, almost forgot that one.
I'm super hyped for Amnesia Rebirth releasing in just a couple hours. I've got it pre-downloaded on steam already but i can't play it until it's exact release date arghhhhh.
I really love horror games.

Wut

Didn't you dislike horror visual novels for example?

I'm talking atmospheric gameplay horror games though. Like Amnesia the Dark Descent, Outlast.
Or FPS/Horror hybrids like Metro 2033 or F.E.A.R.

Aren't those scarier than horror visual novels...?

Although you're only scared in the moment in those games, but there's some games/novels that stick with you for a week or two.

[Bunno]

Aren't those scarier than horror visual novels...?

Although you're only scared in the moment in those games, but there's some games/novels that stick with you for a week or two.

Yeah i guess it depends. I guess those horror games are more scary and tense because you have to control the character, so it's more of a "in the moment" kind of fear. While horror visual novels are the type that scare you emotionally and maybe screw up your mind for a couple days?

The Nails-Remover punishment, or the spiked-alive torture in Higurashi definitely did stick with me for days yes.

Not to mention the "open your throat with your own hands" thingy...

[Bunno]

Nancy I don't expect anything I say to you to get through you if you're town, but I very often get annoyed at how you treat some slots and I end up not liking your slot because of it.

I'm pretty sure if you search for it, you'll find me in doubles mafia multiple times saying that if Auro wasn't your hydra partner, I may have voted you there.

Idk why but I get kinda annoyed on how much you complain about things. Taly vote feels a bit forced to me because he said he was town leaning me before, but he's quick to do a U-turn once I look more vulnerable.

I had talked with Taly/Norwe through private messages that I wouldn't put as much effort in this game as the last one. That's another important piece of the history you may not know.

[Bunno]

Why didn't you like early reads from Taly? I thought they were fine.

Try to remember what you did first thing in the game in the previous run, and what I did catch scum!BM for in page 3 or so in "Mafia from Home" by Firebringer.

Scum often feels self-pressured to put out content, but more experienced scum don't often lash out on things first, therefore they town read people for easy stuff.

Compare how Taly felt hesitant about town reading me in the previous run

vs

Taly town binning me early before I said I wasn't interested in posting a lot of game content

Remember what you did when Pookey interacted with you in the past game as well - Throw a town read.

I feel like most scum open the game with early town reads to clamoufage it as game content.

[Bunno]

Open any game you want and watch scum openings

Try to write the number of scum that opened the game with pet town reads.

I think most of you'll be surprised, idk, it's a reasonable seasoned tell to me and it did apply to you norwe in the previous run, as an example.

[Bunno]

Nancy you kept scum reading Herta for suspecting you in the previous run

Herta was town and I already had him as a town lean if you check my readlist

You're easily blinded by people that town read/ scum read you

In Baton Pass I literally town read your slot because I knew you would be easier to handle if I did "trust" you.

The amount of suspicious you had in my slot in that game is equal to the amount of disagreement I had with you. You suspected me the most when I was going against your wishes, and trusted me the most when I was obeying you.

Why would not I pocket you here if I was scum / you town?

You're relatively easy to pocket compared to other players in this playerlist. No offense intended.

[Bunno]

Open any game you want and watch scum openings

Try to write the number of scum that opened the game with pet town reads.

I think most of you'll be surprised, idk, it's a reasonable seasoned tell to me and it did apply to you norwe in the previous run, as an example.

But town also does that right? How do you differentiate?

Town are actually less likely to do it imo, or at least they sound different when they do it.

I don't think BM was the unique one to have a town lean early in that game, but I feel like he was the one that gave it to someone for the easiest reason.

I don't necessarily feel that bad about Taly reads, but I'm wary of it.

[Bunno]

Ok Nancy stop talking to me please

I'm tired of this kind of schtick from you

I got insanely mad at you for doing the same thing in Doubles Mafia. If you want to pretend to have amnesia to not remember it, it's up to you.

If you aren't satisfied with my slot you can vote me. If you keep actively talking to me though I'll actively scum read your slot & vote you.

I can't get through you. I already had said the same thing in the previous game.

[Bunno]

I'll remember you on what I said in Doubles Mafia in case you try to pretend having amnesia and create even more walltexts on "woe is me", "bunno isn't treating me right"

(I was town in Doubles Mafia)

viewtopic.php?p=11750676#p11750676

Second I'm not pushing TH at all. I've an issue with how Nancy is treating WANH, not with how she's treating me.

viewtopic.php?p=11750720#p11750720

She'll say she doesn't fake emotion but she does show raw emotion as scum. It doesn't matter if it's faked or not (which probably even isn't somehow), the fact is that this kind of fit isn't necessarily town indicative from her.

Even if her AtE as scum/town is different, I'm no Nancy-AtE specialist and I don't trust too much anyone here to be able to distinguish it with accuracy.

viewtopic.php?p=11750771#p11750771

Nancy posts are very very effective in making me feel shitty out of the blue.

viewtopic.php?p=11750793#p11750793

If Nancy used a cute anime avatar, I might be able to tolerate her posts a bit more to be fair.

I'm not even kidding.

viewtopic.php?p=11750959#p11750959

I don't think I would accomplish anything engaging Nancy in a talk either.

[Bunno]

There's worse quotes but I'm gonna spare you of reading them again.

If you tried engaging me in the previous game I would have acted the same way. Notice I didn't actually interact with you too much in the previous game. I just watched how you play and since you were suspecting the same people I was, I felt ok in your slot.

So far what you have done here is to lash out on Norwe, now me, because we disagree on stuff with you.

Last post for you I don't plan to keep this convo. Let's stop interacting with each other, if you want to talk about me talk about me with other people.

[Bunno]

i want a 1-on-1 with Bunno, I don't want outside input, thank you.

You're gonna need to type faster in that case because here it's already 13:00, I came here while eating lunch. I've finished and I was planning to go but I'll wait to see what you say if you don't take too long.

[Bunno]

If you're town, you're impossible Nancy.

No hope of getting through you whatsoever.

If you're scum, I think you would say the exact same thing as town though so I'm not surprised.

As a wise man once said

I don't think I would accomplish anything engaging Nancy in a talk either.

[Bunno]

omg what's this game

tgp / taylor has good takes

those are slots I had 0 confidence on town reading correctly

[Bunno]

Taly takes too much time to write a post

oof

[Bunno]

Now, I want to know how I can better determine your alignment beyond behavior or actions (as you haven't discussed mechanics as much now), but with the way you think.

Honestly?

Norwe knows me the best here although I can't say if he would necessarily read correctly me (he knows how I play though a bit)

I think the person that reads me best is probably duck? RC isn't bad at it but he scum reads town!me more frequently than duck does.

Duck was the unique person on C9++ to understand why and how I could be fakeclaiming both cop claims, everyone else believed on it.

[Bunno]

I think norwe is pretty good on reading me though overall. Menalque as well.

[Bunno]

omg what's this game

tgp / taylor has good takes

those are slots I had 0 confidence on town reading correctly

I agree with 50% of this. What takes of TGP’s are you referring to? He’s a dead null for me rn.

~M

Since this isn't about you trying to correct me on something I'll reply

I liked TGP healing me

I can't say because of ~reasons~ for now but I do believe TGP would think I can powerwolf therefore he would be interested in figuring me out

I kinda genuinely believe his "oof I'm town" post as well due to previous scum pt

[Bunno]

I think norwe is pretty good on reading me though overall.

Have i ever even given an honest read on you that was correct?

tbh 1/3 of why I said it is for you to not get depressed but if I remember right, although you did scum read me early in Mafia From Home, you came around on town reading me when I showed my thoughts more

Well most people did change their mind on me by that point but it's the unique town you/ town me game we've, and it didn't go badly.

In truth I don't know exactly how good you're on reading me, this is potentially the second game you may have rolled town with me, but I do believe you've the knowledge of my meta.

[Bunno]

Bunno, if you didn't want "to be fixed", you shouldn't have responded to my vote.

I wanted to make the statement loud and clear because there were people saying similar things

[Bunno]

In truth I don't know exactly how good you're on reading me,

Yeah so i found it a bit weird you said i did.

as long as people don't think nancy is reference on how to read me I'm treating it as a win

I don't really count our first game because you were more or a less a newbie back then, and I think it's relatively hard to catch me if you don't know my meta, because I'm doing things that most other players would only do as town, therefore it's normal to default it to being town.

I think it's exponentially more easy to catch me when you've the knowledge I can fake town telling as scum so you're more wary of not town locking me for easy stuff.

[Bunno]

Nancy I don't want to bully you...



We simply hardly agree on things in game and I dislike trying to convince you on things, we're both stubborn people and it doesn't work out. Last game was one of the very few times we've EVER agreed about game reads overall. There's no deeper meaning than this.

[Bunno]

I like the fact you aren't insisting on this, if it's anything.

Cute anime can heal everything bad btw.

[Bunno]

Maybe enough time has passed that we should begin to move into something useful

We only have 8 days after all

Therefore I'll give you guys

two choices

. You'll need to choose between:

Plan A

-

I'll give you a better version of the

Schrödinger's Lovers

.

or

Plan B

-

You'll trust me UNCONDITIONALLY and follow whatever I say for you to do on N1. No questions asked. You may judge me on it on D2.

Disclaimer: Neither of those plans involve me getting the bug, or suggesting someone to get the bug if you're worried about it.

It's

important to note

that once you've come to a

consensus

and I reveal the choosen plan,

I'll never, ever, reveal the other one

. I've a rather strong will and building reputation in your words matter a lot in the long-run,

don't doubt it

.

If you choose Plan B but refuse to stick with it, I may refuse to heal anyone during this dayphase.



-----------------------

HAPPY CHOOSING!!!

-----------------------

[Bunno]

[Bunno]

Also wow, that "i'm a side character this game" lasted a wooping... less than 24 hours ish?

I would rather do Plan B

But differently than in the first run, I'm not going to try to force people to go along with it. People need to

choose

it. It's different!

[Bunno]

I'll give you the spoilers though that Plan B is potentially more

High-risk, High-reward.

[Bunno]

Plan B please.

You too.

I mean, I'll go back and catch up on what I missed, but he's going to need to be damn trustworthy.

I'm not going to be trustworthy until later

That's the entire point of the choice

[Bunno]

For all you know, I may suggest something that will make a hypothetical scum!me rob the bug tonight, and I'm not going to reply to any questions on why I'm suggesting the plan, or what it should achieve. Zero.

That's the point.

[Bunno]

RC also asked us to absolutely trust him in Gameshow, so I prefer to know exactly what I’m dealing with before I sign up for it. Last time I did that, I got some credit card charge from a place I’d never been too.

In that case you should choose Plan A after all ~~

[Bunno]

There's NO listening.

There's only CHOOSING

If you choose Plan B and don't execute it, I'll stop helping you guys with ANY mechanical stuff. I'll only give you barebones reads for the rest of D1, potentially even the rest of the game. You'll be on your own.[/b]

[Bunno]

I hate people that go back on their words. None of this here. I'll absolutely abandon this game if you listen to Plan B and don't execute it.

You can only listen to Plan B by throwing common sense out of the window.

If you want the safe choice, it's Plan A.

[Bunno]

we have a time constraint? how long?~~~

There's no time constraint. You guys are free to discuss it as much as you like.

When It's around 2 - 1 days to deadline I expect a consensus though. Otherwise I'll go with majority, especially if it's on Plan A.

[Bunno]

Why the ultimatum? And how do you choose without listening?

Exactly.

When people don't have knowledge they immensely choose the risk-safe option, which is Plan A, I'm merely giving you the option of an

all-or-nothing

bet.

If you choose Plan A, you're free to reject it though.

If you choose and listen to Plan B, but don't act on it, you should expect hard consequences though.

[Bunno]

Fuck dog i like spicy but I trust Bunno 1000 times less this go round. I don't like the blank check they wrote themselves to do nothing for the rest of the game either

That's one of the reasons why I'm doing this anyway. It would be no fun if people trusted me too much, hence half the reason of my behavior up to now. I like to make games spicy, no matter how.

Either way, I'm only going to do nothing if you listen and choose Plan B, but don't act on it.

If you listen to Plan A, you're free to reject it if you don't like it.

[Bunno]

If you listen to Plan A and reject it, I'm going to keep playing like normal. I won't mind it.

The harsh consequences come with choosing Plan B, saying you're gonna take the risk, but going back on your word.

If you choose Plan B, you should be prepared for the consequences of not sticking with it. If you don't want risk, Plan A is your choice.

[Bunno]

I'm bolding it to be clear, there's people skimming my posts because I post too much. I want everyone to understand what each choice entails.

[Bunno]

so why does he even think we’d agree to plan B then abandon it? That makes me think that whatever plan B is, it isn’t good? Because why would we hypothetically abandon it, if it were?

Even if I explain it, you won't understand why you're doing Plan B until the right time. In other words, you're gonna be relinquishing your night actions out of hope that I've a master plan and am not going to mislead you!

Is there anything more exciting than that?!

[Bunno]

You can always choose Plan A if you don't want to take risks.

It's scummy to shade me when I'm giving open option on what you want to do.

I'm gonna be giving you a plan for free, no strings attached with Plan A, I'm only giving you the OPTION to do Plan B.

[Bunno]

bunno, if we chose plan B, and if the mafia team were made up of players with similar mechanical ability to something_smart, and town trusted you completely and did exactly what you said, what is the approximate probability that town wins? can you calculate it?

Hmm

Even if they choose their best counterattack against this plan, I don't think there's anything that doesn't end with town getting ahead other than they taking a pretty big risk for the flimsy hope of winning D1.

Especially because even if they have a player like SS, they wouldn't know what is the attack, therefore it would largely be useless.

They would still do what one of the things I want.

[Bunno]

When an opponent takes a risk, there's hardly measures to counter it that doesn't take a risk as big if not bigger than the risk the opponent is taking itself.

However, probabilities and mathematics are whimsical things. No one human knows who Lady Luck will favor in the end of the day.

Even if the odds are with you, even if you calculated everything, Lady Luck may have no mercy!

[Bunno]

You can always choose Plan A if you don't want to take risks.

It's scummy to shade me when I'm giving open option on what you want to do.

I'm gonna be giving you a plan for free, no strings attached with Plan A, I'm only giving you the OPTION to do Plan B.

How is it even remotely scummy to want to know what we’re dealing with? Obvious answer: it totally fucking isn’t.

~M

I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO CHOOSE PLAN B

If you don't want risks choose Plan A. It's as simple as that.

STOP COMPLAINING

[Bunno]

I'm literally baking 0 orders Nancy you're delusional

I'm offering you a free, safe, better mechanical plan than anyone suggested

or

to trust me to do an even better plan

literally 0 orders. Only free offers on good things. You can ignore both I guess but I don't recommend it.

[Bunno]

Plan A is literally risk-safe, and it corrects the biggest flaws of the previous lovers plan that, if luck was on our side a bit more in the past game, would result in a mechanical win by D3 or D4. Maybe even D2.

[Bunno]

how many people do you need for plan b to work?

Everyone, preferentially.

Minimum?

Hmm, maybe 6 people.

[Bunno]

If someone disobeys me though the plan would be all for naught. It needs to be exactly as I said therefore if a consensus isn't clear, I'll explain Plan A.

[Bunno]

Plan A can incentivize people to not work with plan at all

I dunno what you mean by this but I want to say Plan A is better version of my Old Lovers. It's not bad.

I want it to be clear that the reason to choose Plan B is to relinquish control of this game to me during N1. You need to be accepting of the risk.

[Bunno]

Either way, I'm off now.

It's truly in your hands now.

[Bunno]

you feel faker by every post S&M

I still don't understand how you insist I'm sketchy for...giving you options and only one of them having consequences...

Simply choose Plan A and stop complaining in this case? Gosh. It's getting annoying.

There's always a reason I do things the way I do, be it the choice of Plan B, or not getting the bug today.

Your post rating btw:

[Bunno]

IF YOU CHOOSE PLAN A, THE RISK SAFE ONE, YOU CAN LITERALLY DISOBEY ME NANCY. I'M OKAY WITH IT

HOW AM I FORCING YOU TO DO ANYTHING

[Bunno]

This is beyond pedantic Nancy. I either need to believe both you and pooky are extremely pedantic to keep strawman'ing me, or to believe you may be scum.

"I want to hear the plan before choosing"

Plan A. The unique thing that choosing Plan A does is that you'll not get Plan B.

I'll not force you to commit or anything. You may disregard the plan if you don't like. I'll keep playing like normal.

I don't understand your issue.

[Bunno]

One of the reasons to lock Plan B in the first place is because I feel like I need to always handfed you it and it's extremely taxing on my mental health, patience and energy levels.

In your case Nancy, if you're town here I don't even think it's handfed'ing only

A more objective analogy would be I need to forcibly open your mouth wide open, fill the spoon, and forcibly make you swallow the food. Even after doing all it though you may end up spitting it, and I need to start the whole process again.

I'm very tired Nancy. This is supposed to be a team effort, I'm not playing solo.

There's a good reason to lock Plan B away like this, but if I was to explain it, it would ruin it. It's that simple.

[Bunno]

If you are causing this ruckus over HAVING THE PROSPECT of choosing a risker plan, IMAGINE the ruckus you would throw if I tried to convince you to do a plan that I can't explain why it's the best in D1.

[Bunno]

What exactly do you think my agenda is if I’m scum here?

misrepping/shading me constantly?

why don't you just reject both plans, choose Plan A, or go do something else if you aren't up for this Nancy.

I'm literally like "yo guys I've toys I can lean you but there's rules"

you're the annoying like "BLAHHH BUT I WANT EVERYTHING MY WAY WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME??????!!!!"

It apparently won't matter how much I explain you that there's reasons for the rules, you don't want to acknowledge it

[Bunno]

I'm faintly beginning to think you may be scared of what I can do if town trusts me with Plan B, that's why you won't calm down, refuse both my plans or choose for me to explain Plan A.

Either that or you're town and being the most pedantic I've ever seen you be.

[Bunno]

null to nullscum read Tayl0r

No, I liked Tayl0r posts here and even said so

The fact that an entirely null slot is your #1 townread is also extremely suspicious, considering that slot seems yo be onboard with pretty much everything you’ve proposed.

My first post acknowledging TGP good post CAME

BEFORE

he agreed to ANY of my stuff or healed me

You're again having shitty/misrep takes

[Bunno]

this is very insulting and I'm ready to annihilate you completely whatever your alignment is because I will not stand for you insulting nancy over and over again like this.

We are equals here

We are playing this game together.

You do not get to be like this.

~Pooky

I don't care Pooky.

If Nancy is town I still think she's wrong. Doesn't matter how much times I explain to her that it's no use to explain Plan B if majority doesn't follow me/don't question me, she won't stop shading me and I'm fed up with it.

Plan A had no strings attached but she still tries to shade me with her rethoric

[Bunno]

I'm some % away from just public explaining Plan B and messing it up in your faces out of pure spit

I'll absolutely vote you guys for it though

[Bunno]

If Nancy is town I still think she's wrong. Doesn't matter how much times I explain to her that it's no use to explain Plan B if majority doesn't follow me/don't question me, she won't stop shading me and I'm fed up with it.

Nancy isn't wrong and even if she was wrong it is extremely shitty of you to be so insulting to her.

~Pooky

I'm a shitty person in that case. Don't think otherwise.

[Bunno]

null to nullscum read Tayl0r

No, I liked Tayl0r posts here and even said so

The fact that an entirely null slot is your #1 townread is also extremely suspicious, considering that slot seems yo be onboard with pretty much everything you’ve proposed.

My first post acknowledging TGP good post CAME

BEFORE

he agreed to ANY of my stuff or healed me

You're again having shitty/misrep takes

I meant Taly, me and Johnny. No freaking way should you be null to nullscum reading all 3 of us.

tl;dr

you don't like the fact I'm not town reading your slot

you always does the same drama EVERY game and if you're scum here we're gonna talk post-game.

[Bunno]

I'm faintly beginning to think you may be scared of what I can do if town trusts me with Plan B, that's why you won't calm down, refuse both my plans or choose for me to explain Plan A.

Either that or you're town and being the most pedantic I've ever seen you be.

AGAIN: If ALL 3 of Taly, Johnny, Tayl0r are onboard with whatever plan, I will be too. Fucking clear enough for you yet or are you going to find something scummy from that too?

Taylor doesn't want to do any plans as far as I know, therefore you should reject to do either plans

In that case now you've said enough, you could talk about other stuff and let other people say their own opinions on it, although I'm 80% less interested by this point

[Bunno]

The worst part Nancy, is that you're more likely than not town for all this drama/pooky being offended.

and if you're scum I'm gonna feel disgusted for losing to AtE like this

[Bunno]

yeah it's a scum slip

it's not because I'm going to have my first names in my blacklist in case you're scum therefore it would be spit to any of you resorting to this shitshow to shade me

[Bunno]

OK I'M TIRED OF THIS BS

[Bunno]

This is probably TvT and one player will rep out over this.

you're pretty smart tbh

I already have the message written I'm just deciding if post it or not

[Bunno]

I meant the part "one player will rep out"

I think the possibilities are

1) Nancy is town and is just being Nancy again. I can't deal with it anymore

2) Nancy is scum doing disgusting stuff, people won't eliminate her therefore I should out because I'm not losing to that

[Bunno]

Did you read the Scum PT in Baton Pass by the way Nancy?

I'm sure I explained pretty nicely that I would be more angry at you if I was town, not the contrary.

[Bunno]

Nancy you're blacklisted

Let's avoid each other in future games

I tried in multiple games but I really can't stand your drama. You suck out the fun of games, everytime I play with you.

Bye, sorry norwe.

Treat this as 100% NAI and by all means eliminate my slot if you want. I don't want to ruin game integrity because of replacing out, it's hard cheating.

[Bunno]

I already have the message written I'm just deciding if post it or not

yea you would insult people about being dumb and then rep out.

real brave dude

real brave

Yeah I just can't stand Nancy drama posting

Neither can some other people

sorry I'm not brave

I tried for 5+ games but I can't stand it after all

I'm tired here either way.

[Bunno]

I tolerated you in all our games up until now in hopes you would get better Nancy

You didn't

[Bunno]

You fucking death tunneled WANH in Doubles Mafia

The slot was obvious town and nightkilled in the next night

I tried to explain, draw, etc for you but you kept insisting for ??? reasons on it.

It's fine to be wrong on reads but you would make a BIG DRAMA out of it. I can't, your slot makes games less fun for me. We don't get along that's all.

Not on me or you, just what it is.

[Bunno]

Again don't let my replacement ruin game integrity.

PLEASE

My last wish.

[Bunno]

Ok I've thought this out

It's unfair to abandon Norwe here when I particularly invited him to play with me

ok sorry for the drama

I'm gonna claim though because I can't stand this

[Bunno]

I'm a town surgeon

That's why I didn't want to have the bug, because it could get me NK'd prematurely since doctors can't heal me

Plan B had some other mechanics there and here but it mostly was done to make me operate on Dr.Z tonight alone or at least to make mafia RB me tonight.

It would also have a thingy to make mafia try to risk stealing and investigatives getting a guilty maybe, but I couldn't guarantee that.

I couldn't explain it because the plan had no lovers, and if I had to explain why the lovers vanished it would be too obvious I was surgeon. I had no other explanation to give.

Nancy you're still blacklisted after we finish this game

[Bunno]

Had I operated tonight the chances of getting one confirmed guilty everyday from now on was 50% + I would be conftown + worst case I was RB'd, we would have sentries publicly claim later and coordinate steal to confirm themselves.

[Bunno]

Mafia would be hard pressed to actually not out one of themselves as well, especially if we did execute one of them in D1 or D2, therefore they would permanently need to give up on stealing the bug most likely

[Bunno]

Sentry can't be confirmed and is the easiest scum fake claim

if you don't realize that you're genuinely dumb

[Bunno]

Surgeon is the most confirmable role by Dr.Z

if you operate Dr.Z, and a next doctor operation doesn't reveal one mafia, you're literally outted.

p-edit: they can claim another sentry did steal from them or simply claim roleblocked, you're really dumb if you didn't notice this

[Bunno]

There was no escape whatsoever from Plan B to me, had we agreed to do Plan B I would try to hint as much as possible that my role wasn't a part of the plan to not get RB and later get confirmed town

I'm speechless.

[Bunno]

I'll give you guys Plan A when I'm less sleep deprived. Later.

[Bunno]

I ruined your game because I had an actual good plan, acting in the best interests of town, and good reason to not get the bug

got it

[Bunno]

I hope you never meet a real bully in your life Nancy, for your own good.

Either way I'm moving on from this.

[Bunno]

I said that you're being dumb in-game and you tell me that I'm a disgusting human, yet I'm the one denying your humanity Nancy.

But truly, from the depths of my heart, you can keep thinking like that. I'm fine with it. I don't mind being the villain.

[Bunno]

You don't want to have this talk, neither the people that allies you because they want to be nice, but you're a sensitive person and that causes a lot of stress constantly to you. The stress isn't gonna go away until you try to understand yourself better and face certain things, but no one is gonna say that to you because they don't want to be antagonistic.

No one wants to play the villain Nancy, therefore we pass the days with white lies to each other. It's fine to stay this way though.

p-edit: idk atm

[Bunno]

maybe one on [Professor/Herta]

[Bunno]

actually maybe Professor + Herta but that sounds a bit too easy

Herta is playing more or less the same way to the previous run though so it would mostly be PoE...

Idk about Taly/John. I feel very slightly better about Taly but I'm still null on John.

[Bunno]

Professor Mafia has a wagon, let's see where it goes

VOTE: Professor Mafia

[Bunno]

you actually have not done a lot other than normal activity but there's good game-related reasons for that so for now I'm still nullish on your slot

I don't think it's impossible you decided to post in a higher rate here, although not super likely

[Bunno]

I don't think you had a chance to produce much content yet

neither did most people actually

I need to sleep btw...good night.

[Bunno]

Like here's an example of scum!Bunno (In this case: "Volpe14") showing clear frustration in their game. This page, and they did end up replacing out.
viewtopic.php?p=11351361#p11351361
So it's not completely out of the picture that Bunno came up with a scum plan and then after getting into a shitfight with Nancy and realizing it wouldn't work out they became apathetic/angry and threatened to replace out.
It's sad that i have to suspect someone when their clearly being emotional, but they've already proved that's how they play as scum sometimes so it needs to be considered.

this isn't technically wrong to be honest, I could get this angry even if I was scum and it would probably be as genuine as my town frustation.

I don't want throwing a fit to be considered town indicative as well therefore there's that. You're welcome to push I'm doing this as scum as long as you understand It's

genuine

.

Overall NAI.

[Bunno]

Hmmm... i actually find you a bit sus right now. But that's because you don't townread me yet. Not really because of anything S/M's said.
I have a feeling town!Bunno would have seen my play as more town indicative so far.

Idk Norwe, you only have presence so far

which is good / probably town indicative, but we're coming straight from a game where I said you lurking was scum indicative

I would rather wait to see a bit more of content from before attempting healing.

[Bunno]

There's no reason for me to gatekeep a TR on you if I was scum and knew you were town. Everyone expects me to be a Norwe-specialist by this point but the truth is I do get cold feet either way

I constantly tried to talk to you in the previous game because I was confident on it being scummy but at the same time scared of being wrong initially.

[Bunno]

Shit, can we even vote Plan B now?

No

[Bunno]

So you're saying that if you were scum you think you would have townbinned me by now?

Hmmm it's not exactly easy to picture what I would do as scum here but I think that I would have you as a town lean opposed to null

maybe I would say something like "Norwe has been town indicative so far but I want to wait for him to consistently post more in the game to lock my read", but I would probably end up in the conclusion you were town lean rather than null, I wouldn't have any hope I could miselimination you in that scenario therefore town reading other people rather than you would only make this harder in the long-run.

I'm putting you on null because I want to get you right from the beginning.

[Bunno]

I actually wouldn't mind if you guys sent me early to the dead thread in this special case

Don't be afraid to vote me if you think I'm gonna get mad on you, I'm not

[Bunno]

I want to keep as close to a perfect record of reads on you as I can. Fungi Mafia was my only miss so far/first time I experienced your scum-game first hand. That's pretty much the reason for the null for now.

[Bunno]

I always felt/said it's against the spirit of the game when slots use AtE to town clear themselves so let me do again the argument of treating this as NAI to not be a hypocrite:

Me getting mad as town/threatening to replace out:
viewtopic.php?p=10205718#p10205718

Me getting mad as scum/replacing out:
viewtopic.php?p=11351328#p11351328

I guess from an outsider PoV my play here is similar to both games because in the mafia one, I got mad when skitter/tw would refuse to understand how they normally would lose by doing what they wanted to do, and I expected them to have understanding of the setup, but they simply flat ignored the issue/ they didn't want to understand the setup wish would have made them lose the game either way if I was town and what they believed to be true in that day was true.

In the town one I completely lost it after Espeonage began to do a shitty push on me and had the audacity of saying it was a scum slip. I was on the path to eliminate mafia D1 until he did that.

Neither are one of my proudest moments and it's depressing this happened again but this is hopefully my last competitive game because that's definitely a problem of me taking the game too seriously.

TL;DR: 100% NAI.

[Bunno]

this game is making me want to scream you're all being ridiculously toxic to each other

HEAL: unvote

bunno, i'm not sure if you're scum, but i'm leaning scum on you. so here's what you should do: operate on dr.z tonight.
here's what this does:
if mafia kills bunno, then they avoid killing a more widely townread slot, AND they kill someone who could not have been doctor protected anyway
if mafia RB's bunno, they lose their roleblock
and if they kill someone else and don't rb, then we'll be able to operate on zenkava

yeah I'm fine with this

[Bunno]

fluff post to reset the prod timer

John I can't get the bug or I'll be NK later in game, the unique way to counter that would be to make a plan around me getting nightkilled later and confirming a sentry. Idk if it would be optimal at all.

[Bunno]

this game is making me want to scream you're all being ridiculously toxic to each other

HEAL: unvote

bunno, i'm not sure if you're scum, but i'm leaning scum on you. so here's what you should do: operate on dr.z tonight.
here's what this does:
if mafia kills bunno, then they avoid killing a more widely townread slot, AND they kill someone who could not have been doctor protected anyway
if mafia RB's bunno, they lose their roleblock
and if they kill someone else and don't rb, then we'll be able to operate on zenkava

yeah I'm fine with this

does this plan contradict

Lover's

revision? Because I'd rather we have a plan beyond chastising the only claim so far...

we can do this tonight and tomorrow you guys do lovers

[Bunno]

I don't have enough energy recovered yet to explain the revised lovers

maybe I'll do it on Saturday/Sunday

[Bunno]

*snooze*

I'm here, probably.

I'll try to do my last duty here and talk about Plan A. Idk if I've enough energy though so if I don't post it you know why

[Bunno]

Since I knew I was a surgeon I was more worried about avoiding at all costs Surgeon/Surgeon pairs here. The probability we've a surgeon other than me is pretty good therefore it didn't matter if it was slightly harder to active the operation each night compared to the old lovers, the most important thing was to avoid a surgeon/surgeon pair that's simply put a huge waste.

I'm not sure if Plan A is as optimal as it was when I thought about it, because now I'm outted and I believe I'll be NK, especially given I'm getting town read. At minimum I'm expecting a roleblock. Therefore we would need for 2 out of the 6 other townies to be a surgeon, which is a little bit harder but maybe it can happen.

Plan A was to have:

1 claimed non-gardener, let's call him P1
1 non-claimed person, let's call him P2

Paired together. There's multiple ways of coordinating their actions depending on what you want to achieve with the plan, you can have actions that makes it harder for mafia to steal the bug, you can have actions that optimize doctors operation, or you can make it on sentries trying to conftown themselves later.

What I would suggest though at the moment would be:

If P1 is a sentry, he does nothing. If P1 is a doctor, he operates Dr.Z during the night.

If P2 is a gardener, he removes P1 ability to receive the bug. If P2 is a sentry, he does nothing. If P2 is a doctor, he operates Dr.Z during the night.

There's a chance with the above that there's a Gardener/Sentry pairing where the gardener will make the sentry unable to steal/confirm themselves later, but you can use this to your advantage, kinda:

1) If you trust the prevented Sentry, try to give the bug to them, if it fails the Gardener claim is fake therefore scum. If it succeeds you'll have two new conftown.

2) If you distrust the prevented Sentry OR the caretaker is still alive, try to make the sentry steal at night, if it succeeds the Gardener is guilted. If you've somehow confirmed the RB is wasted (like I was trying to do), you also could assume that if the Sentry fails, the Gardener is confirmed town, and the Sentry may or not be mafia.

3) Even if the situation makes you unable to try confirming the Sentry, you can always force it to use guard on the later nights when the other sentries have already spent their abilities. It either confirms the Sentry as town, make mafia risk getting guilted if they try to kill/steal the bug from the caretaker, or make mafia give up on stealing the bug at that night.

[Bunno]

I personally think that making any P2 Gardener prevent/remove the bug ability from the P1 is more optimal than "saving" Sentries steal because it gives less motivation for mafia to try being the P1.

If mafia is P1 the chance of operating Dr.Z drastically decreases, therefore it's good to have something to make mafia think twice before doing it. They risk losing their alternative win con.

[Bunno]

I think that overall at the very least those coordinations make it less likely for mafia to win by stealing the bug, I'm setting that as my minimum goal. If it does that it's good enough in my opinion.

Wheter it operates Dr.Z, or give us extra confirmed townies later, it's something up to Lady Luck / Probabilities. That's it.

If I managed to operate N1 I think there's very little chance we didn't get one confirmed scum later, and maybe an auto-win by PoE if we managed to have 1 or 2 confirmed townies later by coordination.

But not everything in life goes the way you wanted.

[Bunno]

And that’s exactly what Bunno did previous game, but now how they’re going about it here for some reason. (They say role related, but eh.)

My role literally make us likely to lose if I got the bug. I could single-highhandedly lose this game to us if I got the bug unclaimed, and claiming surgeon makes it largely a useless role that can be countered from every possible angle by mafia.

I get suspecting me but this is a moot point. I'm still not confident on town reading you here by the way, if anyone else cares.

[Bunno]

I may not get here again until Saturday/Sunday

Bye

I don't feel confident enough on anyone to heal them, and I'm not including S&M on the potential list.

[Bunno]

I changed my mind, if I post today I don't need to post Sat/Sun, free weekends > all.

I've a lot of delayed things to do in the weekend though...

[Bunno]

Norwe sounds a bit awkward on his progression the last pages but his activity alone here should indicate he's town

I'm still not gonna give an official read on him yet but overall his slot isn't bad, it's just that some of his posts are give me doubts.

Taly if you want to talk to me leave a question post and maybe, if it's not too big or bothersome, I'll reply. Real-time interaction with me is less likely now though, I was camping the thread before but I've stopped the behavior. It was being detrimental on my personal life and not worth it all things considered.

[Bunno]

Pooky idk why you aren't voting me if you think that really was a scum slip

[Bunno]

HEAL: Norwegian

don't hammer this yet, I just want to see where this goes.

[Bunno]

No

I'm saying to not hammer because I may not login here for some time, and I don't wish for you to interpret this as "bunno is vouching for norwe being town here, give the bug to norwe" automatically. You may give the bug to him if you want, but I'm not vouching for the cause yet.

[Bunno]

I wanted norwe to receive the bug now tbh

I think I'm beginning to get confident on my town read on him

[Bunno]

I actually don't super trust johnny here, he feels ~reasonable~, ~safe~ and ~town~, but it's exactly that kind of playstyle that is capable of deepwolfing. I wouldn't be horribly surprised about him being scum, although him being town might be a more common event. That said, I'm considering hammering the bug on him in the next minutes

If he's mafia I'm not sure that's not a bad thing when I wanted Norwe before so I'm guilty-free. Yes, I realize what this means.

[Bunno]

I dislike TGP trying to force one of me/S&M if one flips town, but I don't think it's particularly scum indicative to him?

Idk, I don't think I've seen scum!TGP, but very very frequently people misread TGP because of stuff like this

I don't know what's scum indicative or not in TGP's case tbh, in our most recent game, you can look at the dead thread to see me saying I wasn't paying much attention to TGP's slot even though he was a big suspect. I would rather leave to sort him in the long-run if I don't see anything particularly town indicative (there's some good posts from him here).

soo

tldr I'm gonna ignore it for now...probably

[Bunno]

The unique problem in this game atm to me (other than maybe johnny having a chance to be mafia and I'm inclined to hammer him), is that there seems to be no consensus on execution.

We've spent so much time on me/S&M that you have done little next to nothing in actually hunting scum imo?

Most of you seem to have town reads but not actual solid suspects

Those that have suspects are different enough that right now it seems impossible to get a wagon on something

If the scum isn't exactly PM, and I honestly don't doubt it a lot considering the previous one was also lurking/replacing out, I'm sensing a rushed execution because of deadline

rushed executions rarely end with a happy ending though.

[Bunno]

bugspray replaces Professor Mafia.

I'll extend the deadline 24 hours due to the extra time it took me to find this replacement.

....

[Bunno]

I'm worrying too much about who to vote for now though

first let's see if the game doesn't end with this

HEAL: johnny

[Bunno]

in case the doesn't end

I would have said that executioning PM was rather random but not the best idea, however I think I like the slot wagon right now because I can't read bugspray at all

so if I don't town read bugspray I'm fine with his elim today...maybe?

I was feeling a bad vibe from S&M before, but now it's ~mostly~ gone. In the first few pages I had a pet suspicious of Taylor but I can't see anything shiny there either right now.

TGP feels like a random coin flip that I would rather not risk on D1.

Herta sounds like the same from the previous games.

maybe bug isn't a bad idea today? I genuinely think it may be a scum slot just because I'm not getting strong vibes elsewhere.

[Bunno]

I'm worrying too much about who to vote for now though

first let's see if the game doesn't end with this

HEAL: johnny

That vote doesn't really seem to fit with how you're trying to portray yourself as cautious about Johnny.

Norwe realize what I'm trying to do here...

I don't actually think johnny is that towny or townier than you at all

now think why I risked voting him anyway

I was playing around giving you the bug, your last posts were good, but now even you voted john and dissipated your wagon

I'm not gonna try building it again with 4 days deadline.

[Bunno]

oh wow

not even 4 days deadline

it's 3 days deadline

I'm sensing rushed execution²

I'm fine with my vote on bugs and if the game hasn't ended. until next time

p-edit: oh, I'm half happy, half sad.

[Bunno]

TGP could be scum, I'll give you that

I can't easily believe it though because of the numerous times I've been mislead

it definitely can be but I hope if it is, you won't see it as partnery the fact I'm not interested in his wagon here

I wasn't interested on him in day 1 on my previous game either. I didn't even try to read him there.

[Bunno]

HmHmHm

a Herta wagon huh?

Now I'm interested to see how this goes

My 2 cents?

If he doesn't towntell in the next day or so, he's probably the elimination now that there's two votes on him

Now it's looking like a

TGP/Herta/Bugs situation

actually useful in later days because it's the most difficult to correctly parse slots in the null range for anyone, I think.

I don't think there's an easy read in the above slots.

[Bunno]

I didn't confirm because I didn't feel I need to actually

it says "one of their living members"

Even if one is dead, the other should be revealed.

It's not bad to confirm though, but I would have an issue if it works different than the above, because the wording says otherwise.

[Bunno]

Oh well, my hopes for a plot twist on johnny alignment were disappointing

I'm off, the game seems to have direction now

It's a question of watching what bugspray will do, what TGP's voters think of Herta wagon, and what Herta has to say about his own wagon.

Feels less likely to end in complete disaster.

p-edit: taly you're tofu to me and honestly? I don't feel you are the kind of player to be easily caught on d1 if scum

tofu = feels a bit bland but it's not bad.

[Bunno]

like, regardless of taly actual alignment, I think Taly is one of the most "probably wins" players if she has rolled/rolls scum in this playerlist

The best analogy to Taly playstyle to me is Aster, and it's really, really hard to catch scum!Aster, because she's contributing but not exposing herself in any way, so it looks more or less the same regardless of alignment

maybe I'm wrong on this take though and your meta is day/night. who knows.

[Bunno]

logical players towntell is flick moments where they are a bit unreasonable/too stubborn/emotional

change my mind

bye

[Bunno]

I'm also the kind of scum you WOULDN'T want to have live past D1.

yeah but it's kinda like

me trying to execute Flavor Leaf in D1/D2 of Team Mafia

tl;dr: people don't buy it and execute the least charismatic slots, and if you insist in it too much they begin to see it as a dumb tunnel or TvT

this kind of scum you don't want in the game for long, because they infiltrate the town core deep and distorts everyone perception of the game, but it's too bloody hard to execute someone charismatic on D1 as long as they aren't being too scummy (norwe was the latter case).

Look at any given game tbh, charismatic slots are hardly executed without BIG DRAMA on D1 or messing up big time.

Look at this game day 1 PoE as well²

In other words: if Taly is scum I'm not to blame, my pride would suffer only minimal damage :'d

[Bunno]

1) I fucking roll Traitor and outlive groupscum... yes, that shit has happened more than once.

Oh god

I'm not sure if my memory is becoming messed up

but i remember a marathon game in Buki's account, where I think you, Ausuka or Bella rolled mafia, and I rolled traitor, but I was such a consensus town read on D1 that mafia killed me even though I was trying to save their wagons

that day was fun

[Bunno]

Oh god, he's arrogant.
Here we go.

I'm not :/

[Bunno]

I'm making small talk trying to pretend it's content because although I like you guys, the game itself doesn't feel interesting to me especially after you know what

sorry maybe next week I'll do better

I didn't mean to sound arrogant

now really goodbye I need to go eat dinner

[Bunno]

this kind of scum you don't want in the game for long, because they infiltrate the town core deep and distorts everyone perception of the game, but it's too bloody hard to execute someone charismatic on D1 as long as they aren't being too scummy (norwe was the latter case).

True, if micro 941.0 was the only game i had signed up to and focused my attention 100% i probably could have out-charisma'd my elimination. But i was lurking too much and just didn't wanna put in that effort and played badly as a result.

yeah you were doing very little but it still required me to camp the thread to get your wagon going

but now if it's hard to execute actual scum in d1

imagine

and only imagine because otherwise it's too painful

the difficulty of executing scum d1 in a large theme if they aren't exactly the least charismatic players.

I was having existential crisis on team mafia for a while.

THIS IS THE LAST POST I SWEAR

WHY DO I REPEAT MYSELF SO MUCH