Micro 1067: Is There a Doctor in the House? - Game over!

[GrandpaMo]

first

[GrandpaMo]

ok obviously this game will be solved by everyone's favorite doctor from a tv show.

my favorite doctor is doctor Murphy from the good doctor (favorite medical show)

miss u galron VOTE: galron

[GrandpaMo]

Sup, let's get this game

rolling

guys, after aĺl doesn't the way we get our alignments feel kinda

GACHA

?

I haven't double confirmed with Norwe yet but I think I (Shirou) will be signing my posts as Aether, and Norwe will sign as Lumine

-Aether

VOTE: GrandpaMo

question, do hydras talk to each other? lol

like are they allowed to speak ogi to each other? or do they have a chat in game like masons etc

[GrandpaMo]

I have already an early idea about how we could try to optimally play the setup perhaps but not only I'm in the phone atm so it's a pain to write long posts, as much as I want to do lol strategies on a semi-bastard games, I don't know much about the player list here and their opinion on trying to play a wonky setup optimally versus enjoying the wonkiness of it. I would need everyone cooperation on the mech plan so before we argue how good of a mech plan it is, does anyone oppose the very idea of trying to minimize the wonky aka "fun" (be it good or bad) nature of the setup?

OMG I WAS JUST GOING TO THE ROLE LIST AND THINKING "hmm isn't there a meta to this setup?" like every doc would need to protect every other doc and that would eventually resolve to us finding scum i think or atleast get us close

[GrandpaMo]

but yea i dont mind ^

[GrandpaMo]

Sup, let's get this game

rolling

guys, after aĺl doesn't the way we get our alignments feel kinda

GACHA

?

I haven't double confirmed with Norwe yet but I think I (Shirou) will be signing my posts as Aether, and Norwe will sign as Lumine

-Aether

VOTE: GrandpaMo

question, do hydras talk to each other? lol

like are they allowed to speak ogi to each other? or do they have a chat in game like masons etc

We got a hydra PT but I was about to confirm with the mod if we can talk in discord as well. So let's do it.

@mod can we as a hydra talk in discord about the game as well?

i know u are allowed to usually set up a discord channel for games for urself so i dont see the problem with hydras just it being supervised by the mod so no ogi stuff.

but ok thats cool ive always been curious

[GrandpaMo]

I have already an early idea about how we could try to optimally play the setup perhaps but not only I'm in the phone atm so it's a pain to write long posts, as much as I want to do lol strategies on a semi-bastard games, I don't know much about the player list here and their opinion on trying to play a wonky setup optimally versus enjoying the wonkiness of it. I would need everyone cooperation on the mech plan so before we argue how good of a mech plan it is, does anyone oppose the very idea of trying to minimize the wonky aka "fun" (be it good or bad) nature of the setup?

OMG I WAS JUST GOING TO THE ROLE LIST AND THINKING "hmm isn't there a meta to this setup?" like every doc would need to protect every other doc and that would eventually resolve to us finding scum i think or atleast get us close

I haven't full run that simulation yet in my head but I think it may not work because it's probably gonna be easy for scum to incriminate someone if we do it like that. That gave me an idea of making groups of 3 or so that target each other though, but I'm not sure it's better than my other idea yet and we are gonna have only 8 people to do groups of 3 in N1.

-Aether

that is true. groups of 2 can probably will work out as well -- i just need to find a time to sit down and run how all that will work nd if its actually good. but i think i know what your idea is... it involves night actions

[GrandpaMo]

also i know we havent really "started" the game yet but from this early discussion and interaction

i believe tabitots hydra and elements are very town just from the interaction with me and others

[GrandpaMo]

top

[GrandpaMo]

finally, i can post now.

why would u say this?

[GrandpaMo]

Shirou wtf. Why did you make our layout eye-blindingly white.
Also, we can likely just talk in discord if the mod has access to our discussion.

- Lumine

Sorry my modem broke and I'm using mobile. Its really hard to use the black theme on phone. Please put up with me for a bit

-Aether

silver theme > black theme

[GrandpaMo]

i didn’t clarify, i was having tech issues lol.

are u an alt?

[GrandpaMo]

silver theme > black theme

found scum y'all

that is blasphemous. black theme is the only acceptable theme.
VOTE: grandpamo

yall r basic

try out the silver and blue theme its soo coool nd very huighly underrated. using the original dark theme makes me think im a newb

[GrandpaMo]

how does our jk become a cop if they don’t know they’re the jk?

i was just gonna say that lol but i half agree with nurse claiming

even better if someone fake claims nurse.

in matter of fact -- i will be day 1 nurse just for now. anyone ccing me is scum. dont cc me k? k

[GrandpaMo]

how does our jk become a cop if they don’t know they’re the jk?

By dividing ourselves in two groups. We don't need to know who is the jailkeeper, we would just need to get a no NK night with one scum remaining. Even if they do no night kill to falsely incriminate someone, it's not as good as it may look in the paper because we can gain extra eliminations if they keep no night killing.

Jailkeeper is a very powerful role on one scum standing.

-Aether

yessss steal my intellectual idea!!! jk but that was my thought process before. we can also have everyone do no night action that or do circular save

[GrandpaMo]

how does our jk become a cop if they don’t know they’re the jk?

By dividing ourselves in two groups. We don't need to know who is the jailkeeper, we would just need to get a no NK night with one scum remaining. Even if they do no night kill to falsely incriminate someone, it's not as good as it may look in the paper because we can gain extra eliminations if they keep no night killing.

Jailkeeper is a very powerful role on one scum standing.

-Aether

yessss steal my intellectual idea!!! jk but that was my thought process before. we can also have everyone do no night action that or do circular save

Hmm no offense but I don't think I stealer anyone idea. Dividing us on 2 groups of 4 was always the plan I was hinting on, from what I understood your idea was for docs to target each other or for to form groups 5that target each other. My plan is two groups that alternate on protecting the nurse and targeting a common suspect.

-Aether

oh i thought u meant 2 people in each group. then nevermind. and no docs wouldn't target each other. they would target like u hinted at, "common suspect" but instead of 2 groups like u said i meant multiple groups of two which would be more eh but yk

[GrandpaMo]

I dislike this plan.

Wait until I fully explain to dismiss it if you're town please.

only scum would like dislike it because scum is forced to choose a target and have to get lucky not to either get killed during the night or solved during the day

[GrandpaMo]

no nk could also happen as the result of a successful heal by reliable, weak, or cpr doc though. i admittedly haven’t thought enough about the setup myself, but i think the point of it is that it’s hard to discern the cause of whatever happens at night. i’m just not understanding how a no-nk will give us that much info.

that can be solved with the groups not performing any action. if that wasn't included in the meta then all the docs will be compulsive

[GrandpaMo]

Hey guys I just bought a lottery ticket. Am hoping to win millions.

VOTE: GrandpaMo

24 GrandapaMo is scum and trying to pocket Elements and Tabibitos. I doubt he townread them that quickly.

i have no incentive to pocket them

if u saw our interaction u would know the context in which i townread them. u should be able to make a read on tabibitos at that point in the game. and when you are trying to gamesolve with elements as well -- u would undoubtly come up with a subconcious feeling that they might be town since they were gamesolving.

for example vanderscamp replied to my quote and said they agreed tabitots was town.

[GrandpaMo]

I guess Abnegation feels like scum. No reason, just a feeling.

i see this fwiw

[GrandpaMo]

also lol i got that reference

[GrandpaMo]

how does our jk become a cop if they don’t know they’re the jk?

By dividing ourselves in two groups. We don't need to know who is the jailkeeper, we would just need to get a no NK night with one scum remaining. Even if they do no night kill to falsely incriminate someone, it's not as good as it may look in the paper because we can gain extra eliminations if they keep no night killing.

Jailkeeper is a very powerful role on one scum standing.

-Aether

yessss steal my intellectual idea!!! jk but that was my thought process before. we can also have everyone do no night action that or do circular save

Hmm no offense but I don't think I stealer anyone idea. Dividing us on 2 groups of 4 was always the plan I was hinting on, from what I understood your idea was for docs to target each other or for to form groups 5that target each other. My plan is two groups that alternate on protecting the nurse and targeting a common suspect.

-Aether

There are too many killing doctors to make targeting the nurse with half the playerlist a good idea IMO

I believe you're mistaken. Pick any 3 doctors or more and see for yourself that their abilities together targeting a single person never kill them and most of the time protects them against a NK.

-Aether

I guess it depends on night action order, right?

Like if doctor/cpr doctor/quack all target someone does the cpr doctor see that no one is being killed and acts as a killing power, except the doctor's saving power lingers?

Because if it works like that I agree with you

that's a good point. this reasoning only rlly comes from town pov.

i would assume night action order is random with killing last since they are all doctors.

[GrandpaMo]

how does our jk become a cop if they don’t know they’re the jk?

By dividing ourselves in two groups. We don't need to know who is the jailkeeper, we would just need to get a no NK night with one scum remaining. Even if they do no night kill to falsely incriminate someone, it's not as good as it may look in the paper because we can gain extra eliminations if they keep no night killing.

Jailkeeper is a very powerful role on one scum standing.

-Aether

yessss steal my intellectual idea!!! jk but that was my thought process before. we can also have everyone do no night action that or do circular save

Hmm no offense but I don't think I stealer anyone idea. Dividing us on 2 groups of 4 was always the plan I was hinting on, from what I understood your idea was for docs to target each other or for to form groups 5that target each other. My plan is two groups that alternate on protecting the nurse and targeting a common suspect.

-Aether

There are too many killing doctors to make targeting the nurse with half the playerlist a good idea IMO

I believe you're mistaken. Pick any 3 doctors or more and see for yourself that their abilities together targeting a single person never kill them and most of the time protects them against a NK.

-Aether

I guess it depends on night action order, right?

Like if doctor/cpr doctor/quack all target someone does the cpr doctor see that no one is being killed and acts as a killing power, except the doctor's saving power lingers?

Because if it works like that I agree with you

Well I did assume it works but that's probably a good question to ask the mod.

I'm pissed at myself for messing up so much in playing as a hydra....sorry you all.

@Aether

i will look at ur mechsolve more in detail once im done with the day

[GrandpaMo]

No actually, I think everyone targetting someone different can lead to such bad results that maybe putting 6 people on the group A to guarantee Nurse is protected even with CPR shenanigans and Nurse plus one person each target someone different may still be optimal, it just sounds way less fun than the original idea.

With this new one we could get info on at least one player role though.

why cant we set up fake mason pairs and have those pairs target each other.

[GrandpaMo]

Hmm...in that case the CPR actually messes so much with targeting as a group, I am actually heartbroken I wasted my afternoon on this. When you want the doctor CRP to do one thing in a group of actions it will probably do the opposite. Maybe it's really better to for everyone to target someone different...

@Aether

it was gonna mess up anyways because of quack doctor iirc

[GrandpaMo]

convulated

then whats the point of ur recent statements? u are contradicting unless im mistaking u for something else.

[GrandpaMo]

i'm down for a no-lim plan if it helps us win.
currently doing my own math/mechsolving but idk how long that'll take me.

that's not what aether said lol.

they said that no lim would lead us to needing to solve based on the complex order of night actions versuses not having a discrete strategy. so it won't "really help us"

this is in contradiction of aether previously discussed in terms saying that we should mechsolve and be more instrinctic.

[GrandpaMo]

No actually, I think everyone targetting someone different can lead to such bad results that maybe putting 6 people on the group A to guarantee Nurse is protected even with CPR shenanigans and Nurse plus one person each target someone different may still be optimal, it just sounds way less fun than the original idea.

With this new one we could get info on at least one player role though.

why cant we set up fake mason pairs and have those pairs target each other.

I guess we could? Protecting the Nurse is expensive so I'm ok if we want to do something else. I think Nurse should still claim though

Hmm...in that case the CPR actually messes so much with targeting as a group, I am actually heartbroken I wasted my afternoon on this. When you want the doctor CRP to do one thing in a group of actions it will probably do the opposite. Maybe it's really better to for everyone to target someone different...

@Aether

it was gonna mess up anyways because of quack doctor iirc

I don't see how quack is the problem really, it's mostly the CPR being unpredictable so it's hard to guarantee something will always work on a given way with him around.

i agree on nurse should claim.

and the only reason im saying quack could be a problem because of its negative utility if used . CPR can just not use their night action unless they are 100% sure. there will be a doc on nurse and CPR shouldn't go for it because mafia will liekly dismiss the nurse claim and go for someone else.

quack is only good if they are paired with mafia

[GrandpaMo]

i'm down for a no-lim plan if it helps us win.
currently doing my own math/mechsolving but idk how long that'll take me.

that's not what aether said lol.

they said that no lim would lead us to needing to solve based on the complex order of night actions versuses not having a discrete strategy. so it won't "really help us"

this is in contradiction of aether previously discussed in terms saying that we should mechsolve and be more instrinctic.

No it is what I meant. Maybe I chose poor words, English isn't my first language. What I meant is that we maybe we want to no eliminate and have a mech plan on the first days, get info and then consider eliminating/voting

@Aether

i don't understand how nolimming will help us.

if we no lim

do docs still try to target? we will still lose one regardless because u are most likely bound to have atleast 2 deaths at night.

i will meta read the other games this setup was played on

[GrandpaMo]

I'm tired for today, I will go rest, good luck to us on making a consistent plan here

@Aether

P-edit: I think no limming give us more time to figure out the roles. For example, if we can figure out who is the quack or CPR, we can do my old plan consistently by guaranteeing that there will always be only one killing role on the protecting group.

My plan still works if we figure who is either the CPR or Quack. (and then we protect the Quack/CPR)

have you thought about scum no killing at night?

[GrandpaMo]

its also interesting that micro 916 - viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81889

they played circular targeting they were able to solve from that.

it looks like if we condemn town today > 0-2 town die at night (mafia rarely dies)
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out
2 at night if doc kills / mafia kills
3 at night if all role actions are played out independently (this is rare, i dont think it has happened in a game yet)

if we condemn mafia > 0 or 1 town die at night.
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out

i think these are all the possible situations. if anyone can think of anything else feel free to add

[GrandpaMo]

i see that mafia dying in the night and nurse staying till endgame results in solo mafia winning. check out micro 256 viewtopic.php?t=32908

[GrandpaMo]

its also interesting that micro 916 - viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81889

they played circular targeting they were able to solve from that.

it looks like if we condemn town today > 0-2 town die at night (mafia rarely dies)
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out
2 at night if doc kills / mafia kills
3 at night if all role actions are played out independently (this is rare, i dont think it has happened in a game yet)

if we condemn mafia > 0 or 1 town die at night.
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out

i think these are all the possible situations. if anyone can think of anything else feel free to add

technically there can be 4 town deaths if the quack doc kills, the cpr doc kills, the mafia kills, and the weak doc tries to save the maf.
an order like quack doc -> cpr doc -> jk -> vanilla doc -> naive doc -> weak doc -> mafia goon -> nurse -> mafia goon -> could cause this to happen.

that just goes in the world of hypotheticals lol. ig thats why i didnt really include it there because of its implausible situation

[GrandpaMo]

i'm down for a no-lim plan if it helps us win.
currently doing my own math/mechsolving but idk how long that'll take me.

that's not what aether said lol.

they said that no lim would lead us to needing to solve based on the complex order of night actions versuses not having a discrete strategy. so it won't "really help us"

this is in contradiction of aether previously discussed in terms saying that we should mechsolve and be more instrinctic.

Intent to vote except last I checked you were on E-2 or something.

m8 what. i come up with reads, u bandwagon on my reads, then come up with the idea to circular target, u follow that also same idea lmao

and u read me as scum?

[GrandpaMo]

i'm down for a no-lim plan if it helps us win.
currently doing my own math/mechsolving but idk how long that'll take me.

that's not what aether said lol.

they said that no lim would lead us to needing to solve based on the complex order of night actions versuses not having a discrete strategy. so it won't "really help us"

this is in contradiction of aether previously discussed in terms saying that we should mechsolve and be more instrinctic.

Intent to vote except last I checked you were on E-2 or something.

m8 what. i come up with reads, u bandwagon on my reads, then come up with the idea to circular target, u follow that also same idea lmao

and u read me as scum?

this is like scolocisis voting me because they think im pocketing town who haven't even read the game yet.

lol

[GrandpaMo]

i'll UNVOTE: , mine was just rvs.
why do you want to vote them though?

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Overanalyze-ey, just kind of weird level of focus for what the post was

welcome to 2023 where we vote town for trying to gamesolve

kidding aside, what post are you specifically referring to?

[GrandpaMo]

i'm down for a no-lim plan if it helps us win.
currently doing my own math/mechsolving but idk how long that'll take me.

that's not what aether said lol.

they said that no lim would lead us to needing to solve based on the complex order of night actions versuses not having a discrete strategy. so it won't "really help us"

this is in contradiction of aether previously discussed in terms saying that we should mechsolve and be more instrinctic.

Intent to vote except last I checked you were on E-2 or something.

m8 what. i come up with reads, u bandwagon on my reads, then come up with the idea to circular target, u follow that also same idea lmao

and u read me as scum?

You could be!
And I could definitely be wrong.

I agree with one of your initial reads, I didn't agree with the other one.

you could be makes you not confident

what makes you think im scum if u agree with my read and my idea? other than im "overanalyzey"

[GrandpaMo]

I wish my PC was working for this. (I will assume the Nurse to be a "she" just to make it easier to type.)

I nickname this plan "

Follow the Nurse

":

Basically my plan is to have Nurse claim on early Day 1, get confirmed town status, and then separate ourselves in two groups of four, A (protecting) and B (Investigating). The Nurse should always be a member and leader of Group B given she cant protect herself. These groups are fixed in their roles but it may be a good idea to swap their members with each other every day/night except the Nurse herself and

maybe

someone that everyone agrees to bet the

entire game

on being town (if you know someone is town on a confirmation that there's scum here, it gets easier to nail scum).

Group A will always target the Nurse and the other group will target a common suspect that we'll elect using the heal tag, in case of a tie between heal votes let's leave it to the Nurse to decide between the tied, and I will talk to my partner to see if he could keep track of the heal votes with me.

By N1 We wiĺl have every doctor power alive given the Nurse inherits the first dead one if we miseliminate, therefore some of the most unbalanced groups that I can imagine to protect are (Quack or CPR, Naive, 2 Goons), and in that scenario the Nurse dies if the group targets it at N1 even without scum intervention, but that would also likely sinalize two scum in the group so it would still be positive?

I believe most other groups are balanced on N1 and assure the Nurse either won't die even if scum targets her, or may only die if scum targets her and the group protecting is exactly along the lines of (Quack, Naive, Any Doctor, Goon). It would still confirm there's scum in the protecting group though, not to mention help to nail who is the quack/naive doctor.

The other group would as said be targeting a suspect, but now that I'm writing this I realize that we should choose someone inside this group to be targeted. The reason is that I realized that if the JK is in this group, and they target someone protecting the Nurse, it may block someone ability causing imbalance on the amount of protection/killing power and accidentally killing the Nurse without giving us much info.

I am still mulling over if there is an universally good way to proceed with this strategy if or when the Nurse dies. However as long as the Nurse is alive (or a confirmed town PR) I believe this plan do protect her, help us to organize night actions, make it easier to understand night results and I also think it guarantees we will not lose the Nurse without gaining info on the scum.

Obs: The group A should always have 4 members on it to ensure the abilities will always balance itself and not kill the Nurse without scum intervention. If we nail the quack doctor though, and kill one scum, we can reduce that requirement to 3 people as long as the quack doctor isn't on it.

Note 1: I don't have a better suggestion on how to organize the groups without confusion aside from the Nurse, the confirmed town, drafting the groups herself.

Note 2: There's many ways this game can develop and there may be a point where protecting the Nurse isn't as good as protecting let's say, a confirmed JK or Quack (functionally a Vigilante). If we can mechanically confirm a town PR, it may be a good idea to have them trade places with the Nurse.

Note 3: This plan goes by the philosophy of minimizing risk and maximizing reward, it's possible to have get lucky and have better night results by going into the game more randomly, just as it is possible for town to ruin itself at that scenario. This just seems like a consistent plan to me.

Note 4: Maybe I can do better than this if I think more about it, or maybe there's a deep flaw on my plan somewhere. I came with this within only 2 hours so not much revision done yet.

ok time to really read this and digest it --

lets use an example

1 mafia goon - a
1 mafia goon - b
1 Doctor - a
1 Weak Doctor - b
1 CPR Doctor - a
1 Paranoid Doctor - b
1 Quack Doctor - a
1 Naïve Doctor - b
1 Nurse - b (leader)

mafia goon, doctor, cpr, quack - 4 in group a [protecting]
mafia goon, weak, paranoid, naive, nurse - 5 in group b [investigating]

group a: (all target nurse)

doctor, cpr, quack >> target Nurse
doctor targets nurse - normal save
quack targets nurse - "kills" nurse
(hypothetical) - mafia targets nurse - "kills" nurse
cpr targets nurse - saves nurse no matter what since cpr's actions is resolved last.
nurse stays alive. no one in group a dies.

group b: (target poe or common suspect within group b)

let's say common suspect is player 1 who turns out to be mafia.

weak, paranoid, naive >> target player 1 [mafia]
weak targets player 1 - weak doctor dies
paranoid target player 1 - RBs mafia
naive target player 1 - nothing
weak doctor dies

if that sequence is followed with the exact group allignments (which is probably the best scenario), then weak doctor will be the only one that died during that night and that makes player 1 highly susceptible for day 2 condemn since RR is off and they aren't confirmed to town technically. this shows its best for the nurse to not save anyone. also nurse takes weak doctor ability. and the same will most likely be replicated during night 2 since nurse had no effect. this will follow the same group allignment and eventually you will have the new weak doctor dying again, making player 2 sus (or player 1 outed if they decide to go on player 1 again). if common suspect is player who is NOT mafia: if they are targeting weak doc then weak doc is forced to choose from 3 choices. they choose paranoid for example... paranoid rbs player 1 who is weak doc and therefore noone dies. that means that their target for mafia was most likely wrong. this makes whoever rbed weak doc also more townier and essentially u would have 2 half confirmed towns or one half outted mafia (with one town weak doc dead).


lets use another example of another group situation

1 mafia goon - b
1 mafia goon - b
1 Doctor - a
1 Weak Doctor - a
1 CPR Doctor - b
1 Paranoid Doctor - b
1 Quack Doctor - a
1 Naïve Doctor - a
1 Nurse - b (leader)

mafia goon, mafia goon, cpr, paranoid - 4 in group a [protecting]
doctor, weak quack, naive, nurse - 5 in group b [investigating]

group a: (all target nurse)

mafia goon, mafia goon, cpr, paranoid >> target Nurse
paranoid - "RBs Nurse"
cpr targets nurse - kills nurse as no protection was on nurse no matter what since cpr's actions is resolved last.
CPR only dies if Mafia does not kill the Nurse. If Mafia target nurse then this happens
(2 mafia really count as one if they are in the same group) 2 mafia - "kills" nurse
CPR - saves nurse
nurse stays alive. no one in group a dies.

group b: (target poe or common suspect within group b)

let's say common suspect is player 1 who turns out to be mafia.

doctor, weak, quack, naive, nurse target player 1 [mafia]
doctor target player 1 - saves Mafia
weak targets player 1 - weak doc dies
quack targets player 1 - nothing happens (maf is protected from doc)
naive targets player 1 - nothing happens

this again follows the same scenario as the pervious group b allignment. weak doc dies and player 1 turns to be highly sus the next day. if player one turns out to be normal doctor. then doctor protects player2 who is a weak doc for example, weak doc stays alive, quack then kills normal doc. this sorta follows some trajectory that quack can out themselve but mafia could use that their advantage and either cc or push that quack doc is mafia. but mafia wouldn't even know and they wouldn't risk trying to target player 1 who is town doc of somesort that could get them killed. so it is most likely that was quack who killed player one which then half confirms quack the next day.


overall, there are alot of complex plotholes in this meaning there are so much detail especially since we dont know what doctors we are that makes it more confusing. we can still try the idea since it actually helps us progress slowly and gives us info. i still agree we should be in groups regardless because that makes it so much easier.

if we have 4 groups of 2 then that follows a smaller circle and doesn't become as too complex or opened with too many possibilities as the 2 groups of 4 has.

we can have two groups always targeting the nurse, and the rest 2 groups will target each other. this will not only help with order of operations but nurse can stay alive since i see how 4 people is probably needed for the nurse to stay alive that is only if the nurse outs.

tldr; its an ok plan just has too many "loose holes" just like tabibitos said originally "theres many was this game can develop". i dont mind going with it because there is more benefits then there is limitations to it and stays consistent versus just solving based on rng.

[GrandpaMo]

i'll UNVOTE: , mine was just rvs.
why do you want to vote them though?

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Overanalyze-ey, just kind of weird level of focus for what the post was

welcome to 2023 where we vote town for trying to gamesolve

kidding aside, what post are you specifically referring to?

121

eh it was justified. abnegation looked like they were just bandwagoning on the gamesolves and wasn't really contributing and i wanted to call it out because if they were to read what aether said, that's not what they said.

if u are referring to the second part, there was some bit of contradiction from my pov. aether had wanted a plan to condemn and then all of a sudden wanted to no lim so i questioned it but then tabibtos admitted there was some misunderstanding in their "poor choice of words" , telling what they actually meant which later made sense to me.

[GrandpaMo]

i'm down for a no-lim plan if it helps us win.
currently doing my own math/mechsolving but idk how long that'll take me.

that's not what aether said lol.

they said that no lim would lead us to needing to solve based on the complex order of night actions versuses not having a discrete strategy. so it won't "really help us"

this is in contradiction of aether previously discussed in terms saying that we should mechsolve and be more instrinctic.

Intent to vote except last I checked you were on E-2 or something.

m8 what. i come up with reads, u bandwagon on my reads, then come up with the idea to circular target, u follow that also same idea lmao

and u read me as scum?

You could be!
And I could definitely be wrong.

I agree with one of your initial reads, I didn't agree with the other one.

you could be makes you not confident

what makes you think im scum if u agree with my read and my idea? other than im "overanalyzey"

Yep, I'm not confident at all.

It was the tone of the way you responded.

tbf, my tone has been consistent throughout this whole game imo

[GrandpaMo]

tabibtos long text

grnadpas long text

ok there is also another way we can play this game that results in the least death possible and also maximum reward i believe. taking no night action is allowed.

so everyone including nurse can probably just not take any night action

this will leave the mafia to kill one person and we will just have to play based on reads.

if we want some risk

nurse outs intentionally, assign one player to protect nurse no matter what the doc is. there role will most likely self resolve.

mafia would have created a night action player, that player may or may the doc that is protecting the nurse -- that gives a chance to mafia die during the night depending on the doc.

if we want some attribution to risk

then doc protects nurse, that doc protects that doc and so on. this will be a broken chain because of the most likely situatuion that mafia will be included within that range and will disrupt the flow. if mafia decides to target their given target, they are outted, if they target another target they could also be ooutted if town figures out the pattern flow disruption and where it stopped on said player depedning on who died during the night.

these are just a few more ideas on how we can play the game ^ i like being in groups tho its more fun tbh

[GrandpaMo]

tabibtos long text

grnadpas long text

ok there is also another way we can play this game that results in the least death possible and also maximum reward i believe. taking no night action is allowed.

so everyone including nurse can probably just not take any night action

this will leave the mafia to kill one person and we will just have to play based on reads.

considering the winrates in mountainous, i don’t think this is the way to go. we need to use our night actions to have a good chance imo.

i love mountanious setups tho

/j

[GrandpaMo]

I read the setup strategy posts differently between GrandpaMo and Aether. Aether wrote their big analysis when they weren't really under pressure and they were also the first to do so. Being the first to write a big mech post is more of a risk socially because not everyone is going to want to read that, so I think that's less likely to come from Aether if they're townie. GrandpaMo though wrote their big analysis after they knew Aether was townread for doing so. GrandpaMo also wrote their big analysis while they knew they were already being suspected by a few players--like me--so it feels more like an attempt to fish for townreads.

m8 what... i promised to do this way before as soon as it was posted lol in post 107

also this analysis has nothing to do with any new plan this was something for us to come up with and help tabibtos and town with by providing what would happen as both tabibtos and several other people were wondering it too. its worth a read to see if its a good idea to create groups. i even wrote a tldr for those who didn't want to read.

i was never in pressure... ur the only one who had a "scumread" on me m8

ur just pulling sh*t from ur a**

[GrandpaMo]

quack is only good if they are paired with mafia

I'm not sure how helpful all of this stuff really even is from GrandpaMo. It feels like GrandpaMo is afraid to take a risk with the strategies they're suggesting.

stop trying to address other people -- address me lol instead of trying to "avoid me"

how am i afraid to take risk?

[GrandpaMo]

I read the setup strategy posts differently between GrandpaMo and Aether. Aether wrote their big analysis when they weren't really under pressure and they were also the first to do so. Being the first to write a big mech post is more of a risk socially because not everyone is going to want to read that, so I think that's less likely to come from Aether if they're townie. GrandpaMo though wrote their big analysis after they knew Aether was townread for doing so. GrandpaMo also wrote their big analysis while they knew they were already being suspected by a few players--like me--so it feels more like an attempt to fish for townreads.

m8 what... i promised to do this way before as soon as it was posted lol in post 107

also this analysis has nothing to do with any new plan this was something for us to come up with and help tabibtos and town with by providing what would happen as both tabibtos and several other people were wondering it too. its worth a read to see if its a good idea to create groups. i even wrote a tldr for those who didn't want to read.

i was never in pressure... ur the only one who had a "scumread" on me m8

ur just pulling sh*t from ur a**

I think promises and favors and what not are more likely to come from liars.

If your goal wasn't to suggest a new plan, why did you post all of your analysis in the thread? If you weren't trying to persuade us to do a particular plan then I think you were trying to persuade us to believe that you're townie.

theres a fallacy in that statement lol -- that's like you saying oh you scumread V/LA people because they are coasting

i expliceitly told u why i posted all my analysis -- it was more of like what would happen if we would do this because no on in the game has tried neither i believe tabibtos has so it makes someone to draw up an analysis on it to understand what would eventually happen following certain x night actions which i believe tabibtos was gonna make anyways. i have no benefit in wasting two hours drafting up possible scenarioes that won't help me as mafia. in which if u would read the plan, maf would be outted in every way that the group allignments were set.

also promises come from liars? really? the most nai thing that was eventually delivered? what more are u gonna pull up from ur a**

[GrandpaMo]

if u are trying to reaction test u are doing a horrible job at it

[GrandpaMo]

quack is only good if they are paired with mafia

I'm not sure how helpful all of this stuff really even is from GrandpaMo. It feels like GrandpaMo is afraid to take a risk with the strategies they're suggesting.

stop trying to address other people -- address me lol instead of trying to "avoid me"

how am i afraid to take risk?

I quoted one example already, here are three more:

overall, there are alot of complex plotholes in this meaning there are so much detail especially since we dont know what doctors we are that makes it more confusing.

this doesn't mean im afraid to do it??? i clearly said i wanted to this plan in favor of the other strategies i suggested earlier. which also IN FACT my other strategies i posted has way more risk involved. why aren't you showing that huh? oh you can't because this only applies to you taking what i said in my analysis conclusive statement and exaggerating it.

also nurse takes weak doctor ability.

how is this related to anything about me losing risk? lol. i love how u are just posting examples and not explaining. this was just a basic explanation of what would happen if weak doctor would die in that scenario and nurse taking that ability which would allow for the same thing to occur in the next day and for the plan to continue the way it is the next day because no docs are technically dead. i actually in fact use this as a benefit on why we should do this plan (contradicting what u think of me not taking risk lol) because of its consistency. this is helpful lol

tldr; its an ok plan just has too many "loose holes" just like tabibitos said originally "theres many was this game can develop". i dont mind going with it because there is more benefits then there is limitations to it and stays consistent versus just solving based on rng.

don't see the problem to this. the plan DOES have loopholes in it and u can't just dismiss that fact if u are presenting to town on the plausible scenarioes. if u would read what tabibitos had in store for the mech solve u would agree as they agreed to.

I don't think stating what the roles do or reminding us that we don't know which doc type we got is going to help much, and at the end of all that you don't even suggest an alternative or take a strong stance on Aether's original plan. It all feels really safe and measured and kind of forced.

Not only that, I think accusing me of avoiding you is way too defensive and you keep "lol"ing at my posts which makes me think you might be nervous.

this is just flat out wrong. i do in fact suggest an alternative an alternative that i have been suggesting before even tabibtos made that post! that was the 4 groups of two thing. again you're either not reading what i said fully or u are just not understanding. as scum, i wouldn't give myself this much attention by suggesting all these different strageties and become the first one to actually suggest something (i just didn't give a full analysis on it like tabibtos did)

i am accusing u of avoiding me in terms of language thats what i meant as it is very clear -- u are trying to prove a point to other people before even having a conversation with me, u were acting like i didn't exist -- like i am not on the top of activity dashbaord -- or that maybe im wasn't on L-2 lol.

i keep loling u because you're funny as u keep pulling stuff frum ur a** and its obvious.

[GrandpaMo]

quack is only good if they are paired with mafia

I'm not sure how helpful all of this stuff really even is from GrandpaMo. It feels like GrandpaMo is afraid to take a risk with the strategies they're suggesting.

stop trying to address other people -- address me lol instead of trying to "avoid me"

how am i afraid to take risk?

I quoted one example already, here are three more:

overall, there are alot of complex plotholes in this meaning there are so much detail especially since we dont know what doctors we are that makes it more confusing.

this doesn't mean im afraid to do it??? i clearly said i wanted to this plan in favor of the other strategies i suggested earlier. which also IN FACT my other strategies i posted has way more risk involved. why aren't you showing that huh? oh you can't because this only applies to you taking what i said in my analysis conclusive statement and exaggerating it.

also nurse takes weak doctor ability.

how is this related to anything about me losing risk? lol. i love how u are just posting examples and not explaining. this was just a basic explanation of what would happen if weak doctor would die in that scenario and nurse taking that ability which would allow for the same thing to occur in the next day and for the plan to continue the way it is the next day because no docs are technically dead. i actually in fact use this as a benefit on why we should do this plan (contradicting what u think of me not taking risk lol) because of its consistency. this is helpful lol

tldr; its an ok plan just has too many "loose holes" just like tabibitos said originally "theres many was this game can develop". i dont mind going with it because there is more benefits then there is limitations to it and stays consistent versus just solving based on rng.

don't see the problem to this. the plan DOES have loopholes in it and u can't just dismiss that fact if u are presenting to town on the plausible scenarioes. if u would read what tabibitos had in store for the mech solve u would agree as they agreed to.

I don't think stating what the roles do or reminding us that we don't know which doc type we got is going to help much, and at the end of all that you don't even suggest an alternative or take a strong stance on Aether's original plan. It all feels really safe and measured and kind of forced.

Not only that, I think accusing me of avoiding you is way too defensive and you keep "lol"ing at my posts which makes me think you might be nervous.

this is just flat out wrong. i do in fact suggest an alternative an alternative that i have been suggesting before even tabibtos made that post! that was the 4 groups of two thing. again you're either not reading what i said fully or u are just not understanding. as scum, i wouldn't give myself this much attention by suggesting all these different strageties and become the first one to actually suggest something (i just didn't give a full analysis on it like tabibtos did)

i am accusing u of avoiding me in terms of language thats what i meant as it is very clear -- u are trying to prove a point to other people before even having a conversation with me, u were acting like i didn't exist -- like i am not on the top of activity dashbaord -- or that maybe im wasn't on L-2 lol.

i keep loling u because you're funny as u keep pulling stuff frum ur a** and its obvious.

my quotes are inside ur quotes. u can read tho.

[GrandpaMo]

quack is only good if they are paired with mafia

I'm not sure how helpful all of this stuff really even is from GrandpaMo. It feels like GrandpaMo is afraid to take a risk with the strategies they're suggesting.

stop trying to address other people -- address me lol instead of trying to "avoid me"

how am i afraid to take risk?

I quoted one example already, here are three more:

overall, there are alot of complex plotholes in this meaning there are so much detail especially since we dont know what doctors we are that makes it more confusing.

this doesn't mean im afraid to do it??? i clearly said i wanted to this plan in favor of the other strategies i suggested earlier. which also IN FACT my other strategies i posted has way more risk involved. why aren't you showing that huh? oh you can't because this only applies to you taking what i said in my analysis conclusive statement and exaggerating it.

also nurse takes weak doctor ability.

how is this related to anything about me losing risk? lol. i love how u are just posting examples and not explaining. this was just a basic explanation of what would happen if weak doctor would die in that scenario and nurse taking that ability which would allow for the same thing to occur in the next day and for the plan to continue the way it is the next day because no docs are technically dead. i actually in fact use this as a benefit on why we should do this plan (contradicting what u think of me not taking risk lol) because of its consistency. this is helpful lol

tldr; its an ok plan just has too many "loose holes" just like tabibitos said originally "theres many was this game can develop". i dont mind going with it because there is more benefits then there is limitations to it and stays consistent versus just solving based on rng.

don't see the problem to this. the plan DOES have loopholes in it and u can't just dismiss that fact if u are presenting to town on the plausible scenarioes. if u would read what tabibitos had in store for the mech solve u would agree as they agreed to.

I don't think stating what the roles do or reminding us that we don't know which doc type we got is going to help much, and at the end of all that you don't even suggest an alternative or take a strong stance on Aether's original plan. It all feels really safe and measured and kind of forced.

Not only that, I think accusing me of avoiding you is way too defensive and you keep "lol"ing at my posts which makes me think you might be nervous.

this is just flat out wrong. i do in fact suggest an alternative an alternative that i have been suggesting before even tabibtos made that post! that was the 4 groups of two thing. again you're either not reading what i said fully or u are just not understanding. as scum, i wouldn't give myself this much attention by suggesting all these different strageties and become the first one to actually suggest something (i just didn't give a full analysis on it like tabibtos did)

i am accusing u of avoiding me in terms of language thats what i meant as it is very clear -- u are trying to prove a point to other people before even having a conversation with me, u were acting like i didn't exist -- like i am not on the top of activity dashbaord -- or that maybe im wasn't on L-2 lol.

i keep loling u because you're funny as u keep pulling stuff frum ur a** and its obvious.

my quotes are inside ur quotes. u can read tho.

actually u probably can't since it was obvious from the last post so let me highlight it for u

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not reaction testing, I'm accusing you of fishing for town cred and being slimy because that's what I see. I think that's scummy that you would assume I'm reaction testing you; it's almost like you know I'm townie

or maybe becaue i am townreading u and don't think you're scum?

also are you an alt?

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not reaction testing, I'm accusing you of fishing for town cred and being slimy because that's what I see. I think that's scummy that you would assume I'm reaction testing you; it's almost like you know I'm townie

or maybe becaue i am townreading u and don't think you're scum?

also are you an alt?

let me be more specific. i have a neutral stance u . i am more frustrated in the fact that you are a townlean for me lol and u just keep pulling stuff out of no where trying to prove something and its obviously not working .

[GrandpaMo]

also i just want to say -- there seems to be a possible scumslip that happened earlier. im surprised no one have caught it yet (i think someone may have caught it. they will respond to this if they know who they are)

i will not out this info yet till i get this other person to possibly confirm.

[GrandpaMo]

also i just want to say -- there seems to be a possible scumslip that happened earlier. im surprised no one have caught it yet (i think someone may have caught it. they will respond to this if they know who they are)

i will not out this info yet till i get this other person to possibly confirm.

does anyone see this? its not from scolosis

[GrandpaMo]

I think the scummiest thing about Grandpa to me was his push on me, it felt like a bit of a wild and slightly forced interpretation of my posts looking for a "Gotcha" moment to pile upon. I dont feel much towards his attempts on mech talk, maybe it's even very very slightly townish for the apparent excitement.

Overall If I was forced to choose someone to be scum right now, I guess grandpa could be a candidate but I wouldn't seriously vote him atm, so:

UNVOTE:

There's actually a good reason for my unvoting as well but it's a secret for now, maybe ask me later

@Aether

i pushed u ? i never pushed u lol

[GrandpaMo]

I think the scummiest thing about Grandpa to me was his push on me, it felt like a bit of a wild and slightly forced interpretation of my posts looking for a "Gotcha" moment to pile upon. I dont feel much towards his attempts on mech talk, maybe it's even very very slightly townish for the apparent excitement.

Overall If I was forced to choose someone to be scum right now, I guess grandpa could be a candidate but I wouldn't seriously vote him atm, so:

UNVOTE:

There's actually a good reason for my unvoting as well but it's a secret for now, maybe ask me later

@Aether

i pushed u ? i never pushed u lol

this is so weird u have scolosis saying im pocketing u and u are saying im pushing u lmao .

[GrandpaMo]

For last I will admit I'm a bit tired of mech right now, it took a lot of my energy for this game to type all that wallpost in mobile. If you guys don't want to do a V2 version of my old plan (the change is group A is made of 6 people and I believe that solves the previous issue and guarantees the Nurse doesn't die) I think I will stop talking about mech for a bit and just try to get some reads. It's too much effort to think of something else AND do a new wall AND convince everyone to go along with it.

I will be accepting or discussing other people suggestions about what we could do thouh, I am still down for a mech plan, just not sure I want it to come from me again at the moment. I will think about grandpa, just not now, too tired.

- Aether

the more docs u will add to the group the more highly likely the nurse will not die. in 4 people, in my simulation that i had ran, nurse was very unlikely already to die due to something always resolving last to protect. this is the case in most medical mafia if we see it in other games as well.


also no need to do a new wall -- i think everyone is virtually down to do it, we are just tryna figure it out if its a good idea or not -- thats what my wall was about and in short its an ok idea and im down to do it. i wouldn't mind risking one doc death. just to reiterate i wasn't suggesting anything new from ur mechplan but simulating it see if its a good idea. we can also do 4 groups of 2 thats what i had suggested as an alternative . but u can read that up later once ur not tired <3

[GrandpaMo]

Mo vs scoliosis looks town/town

ye thats why I have them on Townlean and never sought to scumread them

but do u see the scumslip from when u made ur first post?

[GrandpaMo]

I just finished skimming the game.
gth I think that Tabibotos and Grandpa are Town.

i think ur scum.

[GrandpaMo]

I don't mind being leashed at night as long as it makes sense, and I'm not pretending to understand any of the plans I've read so far. I'd rather avoid mountainous though.

was ur vote on abnegation rvs?

[GrandpaMo]

What's the scum slip?

just waiting on galron to answer

[GrandpaMo]

I don't mind being leashed at night as long as it makes sense, and I'm not pretending to understand any of the plans I've read so far. I'd rather avoid mountainous though.

was ur vote on abnegation rvs?

Rvs. I didn't see a slip.

Isn't now a bit too late for RVS?

i dont think it matters especially considering thats their first post

[GrandpaMo]

I don't mind being leashed at night as long as it makes sense, and I'm not pretending to understand any of the plans I've read so far. I'd rather avoid mountainous though.

was ur vote on abnegation rvs?

Rvs. I didn't see a slip.

Isn't now a bit too late for RVS?

also i think ur scum. u need some explaining to do . what type of doctor are u?

[GrandpaMo]

I don't mind being leashed at night as long as it makes sense, and I'm not pretending to understand any of the plans I've read so far. I'd rather avoid mountainous though.

was ur vote on abnegation rvs?

Rvs. I didn't see a slip.

Isn't now a bit too late for RVS?

also i think ur scum. u need some explaining to do . what type of doctor are u?

IDK.
Aren't we all told that we're just Doctor?

VOTE: Freedom

[GrandpaMo]

Alright so no one answered but what you think about circular protection i suggested

two people suggested that before u including me. but yes it is a viable plan if we aren't splitting into groups.

however, i highly recommend we split into groups -- i want tabibitos to lead the idea and get further conf (since it was his original plan AND everyone seems to be townreading them) before we do anything. but everyone is just seamlessly tryna ignore the convo and not really contribute like for example, "yea i dont mind it or w.e"

multiple people have stated it and done nun about it, but when i do something bout someone decides to scumread me about it lol (srry some of my frustration came out there)

so we will do the groups idea and we will get further conf from tabibtos on which group plan we wanna do and to get nurse to out (if the plan allows for it)

[GrandpaMo]

Let's faster realise what we possible can do, so uh we can aim more competently next night atleast

why are you in a rush we still have 8 days...

[GrandpaMo]

Can you explain the vote?

you dodged the question like if you were mafia

a more confident town would have probably confirmed that we were all doctors.

2nd -- ur previous slot pov slipped in a way

[GrandpaMo]

Oh god 8 days of this staling please no

who said we are stalling

like i told u . tabibtos will conf and thats it. if u read the convos u would know whats going on with them.

i am just saying we have 8 days doesnt mean we will be using 8 days.

im not scumreading u yet but its kinda scummy to rush the process especially if the process includes trying to find a mechanical way to play the game and hopefully get mafia out as much as possible . are you scared or something?

[GrandpaMo]

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

who is shirou...?

[GrandpaMo]

Oh god 8 days of this staling please no

who said we are stalling

like i told u . tabibtos will conf and thats it. if u read the convos u would know whats going on with them.

i am just saying we have 8 days doesnt mean we will be using 8 days.

im not scumreading u yet but its kinda scummy to rush the process especially if the process includes trying to find a mechanical way to play the game and hopefully get mafia out as much as possible . are you scared or something?

VOTE: GrandpaMo

how dare you

I never rushed, i suggested circular because it's fastest way possible to everyone learn actions, you pushing narrative i rushing day overall is kinda bad (but fairly i want to rush... but i didn't yet!)

m8 i will say this again from my perspective -- it looks like you're rushing the game to get something done. I understand however I triedtp make you understand why there is a stall in the game -- first it was from the couple of people who contributed nothing-- and second, we are just waiting on confirmation from Tabitha.

you literally contradict yourself in the same sentence-- "you pushing the narrative that rushing day is overall kinda bad even though I do want to rush". lol you already have implied twice that you wanted to get the day over with twice from my perspective. and you vote me for it.

is it because im right ? lol

[GrandpaMo]

Oh god 8 days of this staling please no

who said we are stalling

like i told u . tabibtos will conf and thats it. if u read the convos u would know whats going on with them.

i am just saying we have 8 days doesnt mean we will be using 8 days.

im not scumreading u yet but its kinda scummy to rush the process especially if the process includes trying to find a mechanical way to play the game and hopefully get mafia out as much as possible . are you scared or something?

VOTE: GrandpaMo

how dare you

I never rushed, i suggested circular because it's fastest way possible to everyone learn actions, you pushing narrative i rushing day overall is kinda bad (but fairly i want to rush... but i didn't yet!)

m8 i will say this again from my perspective -- it looks like you're rushing the game to get something done. I understand however I triedtp make you understand why there is a stall in the game -- first it was from the couple of people who contributed nothing-- and second, we are just waiting on confirmation from Tabitha.

you literally contradict yourself in the same sentence-- "you pushing the narrative that rushing day is overall kinda bad even though I do want to rush". lol you already have implied twice that you wanted to get the day over with twice from my perspective. and you vote me for it.

is it because im right ? lol

tabibtos * writing on a phone is hard

[GrandpaMo]

He's part of the hydra with Norwee.

yea but I don't understand why they are scurmrwaxing the individual and not the hydra lol

[GrandpaMo]

Oh god 8 days of this staling please no

who said we are stalling

like i told u . tabibtos will conf and thats it. if u read the convos u would know whats going on with them.

i am just saying we have 8 days doesnt mean we will be using 8 days.

im not scumreading u yet but its kinda scummy to rush the process especially if the process includes trying to find a mechanical way to play the game and hopefully get mafia out as much as possible . are you scared or something?

VOTE: GrandpaMo

how dare you

I never rushed, i suggested circular because it's fastest way possible to everyone learn actions, you pushing narrative i rushing day overall is kinda bad (but fairly i want to rush... but i didn't yet!)

fwiw @everyome this looks very bad from enchant here. I wouldn't be surprised if freedom and enchant are the scumteam

[GrandpaMo]

Can you explain the vote?

you dodged the question like if you were mafia

a more confident town would have probably confirmed that we were all doctors.

2nd -- ur previous slot pov slipped in a way

I see.
What makes you think that I'm more likely scum then unconfident Town?

I'll answer this more in depth when I'm at a computer. I will also explain how ur slot pov slipped

[GrandpaMo]

Yeah GrandpaMo is mafia, if we both survive i targeting here

are u not tryha make me understand which I say in my post?

before blantaly jumping on a claim

[GrandpaMo]

Oh god 8 days of this staling please no

who said we are stalling

like i told u . tabibtos will conf and thats it. if u read the convos u would know whats going on with them.

i am just saying we have 8 days doesnt mean we will be using 8 days.

im not scumreading u yet but its kinda scummy to rush the process especially if the process includes trying to find a mechanical way to play the game and hopefully get mafia out as much as possible . are you scared or something?

Yeah GrandpaMo is mafia, if we both survive i targeting here

are u not tryha make me understand which I say in my post?

before blantaly jumping on a claim

no i don't care because you not trying to understand what i say and bllatantly jumping on claim as well

i was never initially scumreading you. neither i was jumping on a claim. i am the only one other than scolosis to make a geninue scumread lol.

[GrandpaMo]

its also interesting that micro 916 - viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81889

they played circular targeting they were able to solve from that.

it looks like if we condemn town today > 0-2 town die at night (mafia rarely dies)
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out
2 at night if doc kills / mafia kills
3 at night if all role actions are played out independently (this is rare, i dont think it has happened in a game yet)

if we condemn mafia > 0 or 1 town die at night.
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out

i think these are all the possible situations. if anyone can think of anything else feel free to add

technically there can be 4 town deaths if the quack doc kills, the cpr doc kills, the mafia kills, and the weak doc tries to save the maf.
an order like quack doc -> cpr doc -> jk -> vanilla doc -> naive doc -> weak doc -> mafia goon -> nurse -> mafia goon -> could cause this to happen.

ok so this is the pov slip i was talking about that abnegation did. i feel like only mafia would have the perspective of 4 being dead because they thought about the mafia killing. notice how they say "weak doc > mafia goon > nurse > mafia goon" just feels like TMI .

[GrandpaMo]

Nah let's target each other

who died is noob

im so confused right now. idk if you are doing this on purpose or not. i remember playing with u a long time ago and you didn't act like this.

why are you posting in a cryptic manner that's making it hard to understand you?

[GrandpaMo]

This seems quite standard from my experience with enchant. If anything is more activity than I'd expect

ok can u tell me what u got out of the convo? i got nothing.

its just seems like im wasting my time trying to talk to them.

and when im trying to understand them they shut me up . u are so mean @enchant

[GrandpaMo]

This seems quite standard from my experience with enchant. If anything is more activity than I'd expect

ok can u tell me what u got out of the convo? i got nothing.

its just seems like im wasting my time trying to talk to them.

and when im trying to understand them they shut me up

I didn't get anything, it's just how I've come to expect enchant to play.
A budget Not_Mafia

LMAO that was the funniest thing that happened this whole day.

ok im gonna put my reads here btw since we aint doiing nun


elements -- high townread // casual town mindset
tabibtos -- low townread // strat leader
scolosis -- mid townread // being bold vs most of the lobby doing nothing
vanderscamp -- null / townleanish // they were able to bring in the idea of order of operations and contributed to theory
burgerparty -- null // no read
galron -- null / townlean // nothing major still need more reasoning + and answer questions against their push against someone who isn't in the game
enchant -- null / scumleanish // omgus, not having a casual flow of thoughts that contribute to their reasoning against some of their claims including a push on me
abnegation -- scumlean // not answering questions, going back in circles trying to avoid a push, and povslipped

there is def one in galron, enchant, abnegation -- i wouldn't be surprised if both of the mafia is here.


abnegation > enchant > galron > vanderscamp > tabibtos > scolosis > elements

i hope the new replacement is able to provide more info for burger party soon.

[GrandpaMo]

it means

i target you next night

you target me next night


if you are mafia, you are forced in either killing me or forfeiting claiming kill doctor AND also has chance to die due me being one

thats basically the alternative plan i suggested to tabibtos lol. ur stealing my idea and calling me scum ok buddy

but in more detailed terms, we would have multiple groups of two

and basically for example one group would be me and you, we would target each other at night and the other group will target each other as well.

the other two groups can protect the nurse.

[GrandpaMo]

top

@enchant look at what i said

[GrandpaMo]

i consider you are agree to plan

yes 110% but like i said 10 times already im just waiting for tabibitos make their response just to see their perspective to see if are missing something

[GrandpaMo]

i consider you are agree to plan

yes 110% but like i said 10 times already im just waiting for tabibitos make their response just to see their perspective to see if are missing something

[GrandpaMo]

idk i don't care what anyone saying, if i want to kill you, you can only police me to save your sorry anime ass

LMAO

[GrandpaMo]

or pray i didn't roll quack/CPR

ima pray u didnt roll mafia

[GrandpaMo]

too bad you are in atheist world

bismallah

[GrandpaMo]

Idk what it says about their allotments yet but I'm loving this Mo/Enchant interaction

same lmao

idk why its just wholesome nd its feels town on town lol

this is making me townread enchant more and more

[GrandpaMo]

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

who is shirou...?

Their four post iso isn't great, and I didn't realize they were in the hydra but I think the hydra is probably town.

UNVOTE:

this looks bad for u lol

[GrandpaMo]

Gimli replaces BurgerParty.

welcome gimli! u have 1 minute and 23 seconds to respond with a 5 page essay on why you are town.

ready? ok set go.

[GrandpaMo]

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

who is shirou...?

Their four post iso isn't great, and I didn't realize they were in the hydra but I think the hydra is probably town.

UNVOTE:

were u reading them as scum because they didnt contribute as much?

[GrandpaMo]

I'm gonna do a lazy catch up and point out stupid things

Don't worry Doctor, I'll help you find those rival spies!
VOTE: Tabibitos

I'm townreading this, am I allowed to?

VOTE: Abnegation clumsy posting trying not to talk about the game alignments wise

I guess Abnegation feels like scum. No reason, just a feeling.

I'll townread you for feeling similar feels

I guess Abnegation feels like scum. No reason, just a feeling.

i see this fwiw

oh my

wallpost

oh god this is complicated and i need to go think about it.

if i like this plan, i will bet the game on town!tabibitos.

I get why you'd think that but I don't like that you're thinking that, it seems fake scum reasoning to townread people (when you didn't even read the plan yet)

I didn't read the plan either I'm lazy

I think vanderscamp is town as well and agree w/ some of grandpa's posts pinging as scum indicative

I read the setup strategy posts differently between GrandpaMo and Aether. Aether wrote their big analysis when they weren't really under pressure and they were also the first to do so. Being the first to write a big mech post is more of a risk socially because not everyone is going to want to read that, so I think that's less likely to come from Aether if they're townie. GrandpaMo though wrote their big analysis after they knew Aether was townread for doing so. GrandpaMo also wrote their big analysis while they knew they were already being suspected by a few players--like me--so it feels more like an attempt to fish for townreads.

I can smell the townie fragrance coming out of this

okay i like you. you are now up there with elements.

you literally have the same mind as me and its scaring me

[GrandpaMo]

If a normal doctor and a CPR doctor target the same player they live right?

since cpr resolves last

using that info

if player 1 is not being targeted by mafia

doctor targets player 1 >> saves player 1
mafia targets player 2
CPR targets player 1 >> kills player 1 (becomes quack esstentially)
player 1 dies

if player 1 is being targeted by mafia

doctor targets player 1 >> saves player 1
mafia targets player 1
CPR targets player 1 >> saves player 1
no one dies

[GrandpaMo]

would it not be
doc targets player 1
mafia targets player 2
CPR targets player 1 >> quack doctor
initial doctor saves from the CPR kill
Player 1 lives

Doc targets player 1
mafia targets player 1 >> doc saves from mafia kill
CRP targets player 1 who is not currently going to die >> quack doctor
Player 1 dies

i dont think so because cpr resolves last so doc's save was before cpr and eventually cpr would kill the target because mafia killed them.

unless mafia kills come before protections? what is the order of operations for that because in that case that will be diff depending on how it is interperted

[GrandpaMo]

is someone around to tell me why isn't the nurse just an IC and why shouldn't we out them on d1

me and tabibtos wanted nurse to out but tabibitos just said to wait because of a "supposed" possible caveat that would differe

but we all know who nurse is lol

[GrandpaMo]

He's part of the hydra with Norwee.

yea but I don't understand why they are scurmrwaxing the individual and not the hydra lol

Maybe he didn't realise that Shirou was in the hydra?
You might be overanalysing a bit here.

becaue it looks like galron is fishing instead of reading.

freedom are u an alt, or are u new?

ur scummy behavior can TSTBS but i doubt it

[GrandpaMo]

Ahh i'm sorry but i'm really not good at mech-talk. I'm gonna ask Aether to explain to me this plan in a way i understand later so i can keep up LOL.

- Lumine

ask aether to post the dumbed down version in thread cause the first one was too complicated and wordy

i can do it for u if u want

tldr;

all it is.

is have nurse as IC

there will be two groups

1st group (4 people) -- this group will all target the nurse to protect them
2nd group (nurse will be in this group so 5 people) -- this group will investigate by targeting a person who they think is sus within group 2.

that will ultimately result in making someone either half confirmed as maf or town (look at my post to see further elabaration on that)

im assuming nurse doesnt target anyone btw. if nurse dies then they convert to the doc that died and the process repeats again for day 2 and so on till we have outted maf.

[GrandpaMo]

if nurse dies then they convert to the doc that died

i meant to say if that doc dies then that nurse will become that doc's power

[GrandpaMo]

the problem I have with organising night actions is that the mafia just get to kill someone

we can be smart about it though -- we can know who mafia is gonna kill thru poe. this isn't like a normal game where the mafia are trying to kill someone based of who is the towniest but they also need to consider the fact who is who. this will only really happen after day 1 once night actions resolve because then maf will use the night actions as a guide and through there town will be able to gamesolve who the mafia is by deaths as well.

[GrandpaMo]

The easiest way for this to happen is if we target in a circle. Then Quack and CPR will 100% kill their targets + mafia kill makes 3. Then all we need is for weak to be next to a mafia.

see and then we can use that info to decipher ok we told player 1 to target player 3 but player 1 died.

what are the possible situatuiions? then you would try to rule out much possibilities but like i told abnegation the possibility of 4 deaths is just highly unlikely and we dont need to think that far ahead until it comes out.

[GrandpaMo]

tldr

I think eliminating today is the better option.
If we hit scum, that's incredibly good for us. We can pick players and targets, maybe 2 or 3, and gain so much information about their roles without fear of losing to night actions because there's only 1 mafia left.
If we hit town. We still have all 8 town roles left in the game and can do the 2 groups strategy.
In this scenario I don't see any reason for the nurse to claim?
Nurse never gets exiled here because they just claim if they're on the block and without claiming the mafia will have to guess who to kill to get rid of a confirmed town tomorrow.

who said not to elim today? lol

[GrandpaMo]

tldr

I think eliminating today is the better option.
If we hit scum, that's incredibly good for us. We can pick players and targets, maybe 2 or 3, and gain so much information about their roles without fear of losing to night actions because there's only 1 mafia left.
If we hit town. We still have all 8 town roles left in the game and can do the 2 groups strategy.
In this scenario I don't see any reason for the nurse to claim?
Nurse never gets exiled here because they just claim if they're on the block and without claiming the mafia will have to guess who to kill to get rid of a confirmed town tomorrow.

who said not to elim today? lol

ahh nvm i see ur reasoning -- i guess thats what tabibtos would have implied or missing in their point

but then instead of 5 people it would 4 people including nurse for the 2nd group.

[GrandpaMo]

I also like the idea of targeting the 2 scummiest players with the groups. 1 will be role blocked and one has a fair chance of being killed.

how are we targeting two people? are those two people in the group going to target each other what about the third person? who are they going to target?

[GrandpaMo]

Group 1: A, b, c, d - Target E
Group 2: E, f, g, h - Target A

ah -- i was thinking differently.

i was thinking more of this

_____________________________

*this is based on playerlist order on mod post - doing every other player*

im also assuming freedom will die day 1 just as an example
i will also be nurse as an example
enchant will be common suspect as an example

group 1 - scoliosis, burger party, vanderscamp, galron >> all target nurse
group 2 - elements, enchant, tabibitos, grandpa (nurse) >> all except nurse target enchant

----------------------------------------

basically my question is how is nurse going to be protected? there is no need for nurse to out if no one of protecting them as mafia will just kill them lol

[GrandpaMo]

Group 1: A, b, c, d - Target E
Group 2: E, f, g, h - Target A

ah -- i was thinking differently.

i was thinking more of this

_____________________________

*this is based on playerlist order on mod post - doing every other player*

im also assuming freedom will die day 1 just as an example
i will also be nurse as an example
enchant will be common suspect as an example

group 1 - scoliosis, burger party, vanderscamp, galron >> all target nurse
group 2 - elements, enchant, tabibitos, grandpa (nurse) >> all except nurse target enchant

----------------------------------------

basically my question is how is nurse going to be protected? there is no need for nurse to out if no one of protecting them as mafia will just kill them lol

\


we CAN have enchant and tabibitos target each other --- but that will leave u for example, the third person, elements with no job.

that probably would be like this then

group 1 - scoliosis, burger party, vanderscamp, galron, elements >> all target nurse
group 2 - enchant, tabibitos, grandpa (nurse) >> enchant targets tabibitos and tabibtos targets enchant

[GrandpaMo]

Seeing as I'm getting into the mech spec I'll do my due diligence and go through Aether's explanation properly

this was my idea

group 1 - scoliosis, burger party -- target nurse
group 2 - , vanderscamp, galron, -- target each other
group 3 - elements, tabibitos -- target each other
group 4 - nurse -- no target

or if we want to extend protection for nurse just have group 2 to protect nurse as well just as a protection. there u will have at least 2 town protecting nurse at all time and we will have two people targeted (they will target each other)

[GrandpaMo]

Seeing as I'm getting into the mech spec I'll do my due diligence and go through Aether's explanation properly

this was my idea

group 1 - scoliosis, burger party, -- target nurse
group 2 - , vanderscamp, galron, -- target each other
group 3 - elements, tabibitos -- target each other
group 4 - nurse -- no target

or if we want to extend protection for nurse just have group 2 to protect nurse as well just as a protection. there u will have at least 2 town protecting nurse at all time and we will have two people targeted (they will target each other)

ah wait i fucked that up -- dont listen to me, enchants name didnt get copied and pasted hold up.

just put enchant with group 1 -- there u go, u will always have atleast ONE TOWN on nurse at all times. i think this is solid so in conclusion

group 1 - a, b, c -- target nurse
group 2 - d, e -- target each other
group 3 - f, g -- target each other
group 4 - nurse -- target no one

[GrandpaMo]

just put enchant with group 1 -- there u go, u will always have atleast ONE TOWN on nurse at all times. i think this is solid so in conclusion

group 1 - a, b, c -- target nurse
group 2 - d, e -- target each other
group 3 - f, g -- target each other
group 4 - nurse -- target no one

The town on the nurse does have a 1 in 4 chance of just killing them.
And we also don't get much info of the Nurse's ability

oh fu**** i forgot about nurse posseing power of dead doc.

i was just assuming doctor dead at night type stuff damn ok that changes stuff.

that makes me think that nurse shouldn't just out then.

that means two groups of 4 is just better then.

group 1 - a, b, c, d -- target e
group 2 - e, f, g, h -- target a

regardless of what nurse is. that makes sense

[GrandpaMo]

Unless we massclaim, which I don't think we should.

is this not a scumslip lollllll i told yall

abnegation pov slipped and freedom scumslipped twice now lol

[GrandpaMo]

i already know who nurse is btw they claimed in the beginning lol

[GrandpaMo]

its also interesting that micro 916 - viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81889

they played circular targeting they were able to solve from that.

it looks like if we condemn town today > 0-2 town die at night (mafia rarely dies)
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out
2 at night if doc kills / mafia kills
3 at night if all role actions are played out independently (this is rare, i dont think it has happened in a game yet)

if we condemn mafia > 0 or 1 town die at night.
0 at night if mafia nks (this is also rare)
0 at night if mafia is rbed
0 at night if doc cancel out
1 at night if doc kills
1 at night if doc cancel out

i think these are all the possible situations. if anyone can think of anything else feel free to add

technically there can be 4 town deaths if the quack doc kills, the cpr doc kills, the mafia kills, and the weak doc tries to save the maf.
an order like quack doc -> cpr doc -> jk -> vanilla doc -> naive doc -> weak doc -> mafia goon -> nurse -> mafia goon -> could cause this to happen.

ok so this is the pov slip i was talking about that abnegation did. i feel like only mafia would have the perspective of 4 being dead because they thought about the mafia killing. notice how they say "weak doc > mafia goon > nurse > mafia goon" just feels like TMI .

I don't agree with this read at all.

I think your recent posts are very town though

I agree. Wh0 doesn;t think about the mafia kill when playing mafia?

sorry this is not what i mean -- i will explain once i get back giv me a sec

[GrandpaMo]

You're misinterpreting me.
I meant that Doctor would be a safer fakeclaim then Nurse because we're all Doctors.

ur so confusing -- it looks like u keep flipflopping if u know that we are all docs or not

[GrandpaMo]

do we conftown elements

yes we conf them because they claimed my role lelelellelelelelelelellelelelelelel u suc mafia

[GrandpaMo]

do we conftown elements

Sure.

pls get this out alreayd

ik i already voted freedom

but here

im like 100% on this being mafia . there is like no way. is it too scum to be scum?? are yallseeing something im not seeing?

VOTE: freedom

[GrandpaMo]

Elements mech solving is interesting, don't know what to think of that, did you ever do it before Elements? On what game?

im sorry but this feels like a useless question to ask because first, cant u just look up their meta

and 2nd u act like ur gonna follow up with elements because u have been gone for most the game and i missed u and like ugh idk what i do without u

[GrandpaMo]

Maths Behind 2 Groups!

Spoiler:

Group 1: A, b, c, d -> E
Group 2: E, f, g, h -> A
(all this is the same if you replace A with E)

Spoiler: NAR and CPR

To make this easier on myself I am going to assume the following about the CPR doctor and night action resolutions:
Night actions resolve as instances:
Doctor and Weak Doctor add an instance of heal (+1) to a target.
Quack doctor and mafia kill add an instance of kill (-1) to a target.
CPR adds heal (+1) or kill (-1) depending.
(The only other night action is the Paranoid doctor which will always protect their target so we don't need to worry about that)

After all actions have resolved the instances on each player are summed to a give the player's [Status].
If a player's [Status]:
> 0 -> Player lives
= 0 -> Player lives
< 0 -> Player dies

When the CPR doctor resolves, it looks at the [Status] of its target before it acts.
If a player's [Status]:
> 0 -> CPR adds a kill (-1) and the player doesn't die
= 0 -> CPR adds a kill (-1) and the player dies
< 0 -> CPR adds a heal (+1) potentially saving the player

This is how CPR interaction and action resolution makes sense to me. If that's not how it works then welp I'm probably about to waste a lot of time lol!

Mafia kill does not target A

In order for A to die, one of group 1 must be the JK.
Therefore 3 roles will be told to target A.
35 combinations to target A.

Spoiler: Maths

7 roles left that can target A
7x6x5 = 210
Taking into account permutations
210/3! = 35

The second condition required for A to die is for the Quack or CPR to kill them.

Case without CPR

Without CPR the only way for A to die is by Quack killing them.
This happens is Quack is in Group 2 and is not Jail-kept.
There is a 3/10 chance for the Quack to kill this way.

Spoiler: Maths

Assuming no CPR and Quack is in the group
1x5x4 = 20
Accounting for permutations
20/2! = 10

	0	0	0	1	1
0	x	0	0	1	1
0	0	x	0	1	1
0	0	0	x	1	1
1	1	1	1	x	2
1	1	1	1	2	x

3/10 result in a kill

Case without Quack

Without the Quack, the CPR will act like a Quack so the above maths can be used.
3/10 chance of death.

Case with CPR and Quack

If the Quack were to kill the CPR will save the target so only the CPR can kill.
There is a 2/5 chance of death.

Spoiler: Maths

With CPR and Quack
1x1x5 =5
No permutations
Of these 5, 2 include a heal and 3 do not.
When there is a heal it will cancel out the Quack kill so the CPR will kill.
When there is no heal the CPR will see the target killed and so heal them.
Therefore 2/5 chance of death.

Overall

8/35 chance of killing the target.

Mafia kill does target A

We have 35 combinations of roles as before.
For A to die there must be more kills than heals on them.

Case with Quack but without CPR

There will be 2 kill instances on A.
A will only live if there are 2 heal instances.
There is only 1/10 chance of there being 2 heal instances.
There is a 9/10 chance of death.
(See Mafia kill doesn't target A subsection Case without CPR for maths)

Case with CPR but without Quack

Due to the additional kill on A, CPR doesn't act quite the same as before.
6/10 chance of death

Spoiler: Maths

Taking into account the kill instance from the mafia kill

-1	0	0	0	1	1
0	x	-1	-1	0	0
0	-1	x	-1	0	0
0	-1	-1	x	0	0
1	0	0	0	x	1
1	0	0	0	1	x

Green signifies when CPR acts to heal
Red signifies when CPR acts to kill
3/10 CPR saves A
6/10 CPR kills A
1/10 CPR kills A but they are saved

Case with Quack and CPR

In this scenario there are always 2 kill instances on A so the CPR will always act to heal.
3/5 chance of death.

Spoiler: Maths

If the third slot is a null: Mafia + Quack - CPR = Kill (x3)
If the third slot is a heal: Mafia + Quack - Heal - CPR = Live (x2)

Case without Quack or CPR

There is 1 kill instance in this scenario.
6/10 chance of death

Spoiler: Maths

For no heals we need all 3 nulls
3x2x1 = 6
The other combinations all have at least 1 heal so will save A

Overall

24/35 chance of death

Conclusion

If we co-ordinate our kills in the two group cross targeting system one of the targets will survive and the other probably will unless the mafia choose to kill them. The mafia don't know which group is targeted by the JK so choosing to kill one of the targets is risky for them. If both mafia are in the same group that might make them choose to kill their target as it's less likely for them to have the JK in their group but I personally wouldn't. The chance of both mafia being in the same group is 3/7 so it's not too unlikely.

Spoiler: Maths

Chance for mafia to both be in the same group is 1 - (chance only 1 mafia in a group)
2x6x5x4/3! = 40
Number of groups
8x7x6x5/4! = 70
1-4/7 = 3/7

Having done all this I think the two groups option works well to keep people alive but doesn't give us that much information on anyone's roles if that's what we're going for.

i think it does because it half confirms someone if they are town or mafia. while its not 100 percent definiete this leads into wifom territory where we can eventually gamesolve thru mafia's ridiclousness

[GrandpaMo]

what do you think of galron, grandpa?

are u reading my mind lmaooo

i was just gonna ask u that because i had them on my bottom three of my readlist

towards a null. i first thought they voted abnegation because of their slip i saw but they did it for rvs then abnegation was going back and forth with them?

they have not contributed at all nd like i told enchant (well implied it to them) if they aint scum, then galron is my next on my list.

after that interaction i had with enchant, it made me like them a lot more and so went above galron in my readlist poe

so now i just have galron and freedom as my bottom two.

[GrandpaMo]

This seems quite standard from my experience with enchant. If anything is more activity than I'd expect

ok can u tell me what u got out of the convo? i got nothing.

its just seems like im wasting my time trying to talk to them.

and when im trying to understand them they shut me up

I didn't get anything, it's just how I've come to expect enchant to play.
A budget Not_Mafia

LMAO that was the funniest thing that happened this whole day.

ok im gonna put my reads here btw since we aint doiing nun


elements -- high townread // casual town mindset
tabibtos -- low townread // strat leader
scolosis -- mid townread // being bold vs most of the lobby doing nothing
vanderscamp -- null / townleanish // they were able to bring in the idea of order of operations and contributed to theory
burgerparty -- null // no read
galron -- null / townlean // nothing major still need more reasoning + and answer questions against their push against someone who isn't in the game
enchant -- null / scumleanish // omgus, not having a casual flow of thoughts that contribute to their reasoning against some of their claims including a push on me
abnegation -- scumlean // not answering questions, going back in circles trying to avoid a push, and povslipped

there is def one in galron, enchant, abnegation -- i wouldn't be surprised if both of the mafia is here.


abnegation > enchant > galron > vanderscamp > tabibtos > scolosis > elements

i hope the new replacement is able to provide more info for burger party soon.

@gimli this is what im referring too btw

[GrandpaMo]

also gimli ur above tabibitos and scolosis now fwiw

[GrandpaMo]

widly different

ok thats all i need to know

im starting to get pieces back and back into my head when i played with elements.

[GrandpaMo]

mech-wise:
i’m all for planning out night actions. if we can find a way to get info out of the wonk, then we should take it.
i’ve been considering the idea of nurse claiming d1/maybe d2. they’re not any more powerful than the doctors, and it would be ridiculous for scum to cc it now. basically gives us an innocent child and helps us plan night actions if we want to do that.

looking back at abnegation's iso... i never saw this . i see why u are hesitatnt to claim scum on them for making a claim like this ^

[GrandpaMo]

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

who is shirou...?

He's part of the hydra with Norwee.

He's part of the hydra with Norwee.

yea but I don't understand why they are scurmrwaxing the individual and not the hydra lol

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

who is shirou...?

Their four post iso isn't great, and I didn't realize they were in the hydra but I think the hydra is probably town.

UNVOTE:

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

who is shirou...?

Their four post iso isn't great, and I didn't realize they were in the hydra but I think the hydra is probably town.

UNVOTE:

this looks bad for u lol

Gmo I read that iso and didn't pick up a Scum slip although the isolated was underwhelming.

I get stronger scum vibes from shirou.

VOTE: shirou

who is shirou...?

Their four post iso isn't great, and I didn't realize they were in the hydra but I think the hydra is probably town.

UNVOTE:

were u reading them as scum because they didnt contribute as much?

He's part of the hydra with Norwee.

yea but I don't understand why they are scurmrwaxing the individual and not the hydra lol

Maybe he didn't realise that Shirou was in the hydra?
You might be overanalysing a bit here.

this progression looks horrible btw fwiw. i said the same thing @gimli i called them out for it looking bad. and then freedom coming to their defense?

[GrandpaMo]

I mean of course he didn't realise shirou was in the hydra since he voted shirou.

also im assuming ur an alt too

wassup with everybody and alts . i think its time for me to make me one

[GrandpaMo]

mech-wise:
i’m all for planning out night actions. if we can find a way to get info out of the wonk, then we should take it.
i’ve been considering the idea of nurse claiming d1/maybe d2. they’re not any more powerful than the doctors, and it would be ridiculous for scum to cc it now. basically gives us an innocent child and helps us plan night actions if we want to do that.

looking back at abnegation's iso... i never saw this . i see why u are hesitatnt to claim scum on them for making a claim like this ^

what do u think about this @gimli

[GrandpaMo]

@grandpa: I'm actually not an alt, I haven't played in two years and don't know anyone

this is a compliment because u play rlly good especially considering u haven tplayed in two years.

also welcome back -- this is also my return as well from like a year to 2

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, you are probably the least subtle person I have ever met

im sorry is that a good / bad thing?:(

i try not to be annoying lol

[GrandpaMo]

this is a compliment because u play rlly good especially considering u haven tplayed in two years.

also welcome back -- this is also my return as well from like a year to 2

thanks! I feel a lot of my posting has been pure ass though

are we sure that performing NAs the way we're suggesting now (focusing on 2 players) is better than going no NAs? are we sure the nurse is more useful for us hidden than outed on d1?

for instance: we might end up playing a 6er tomorrow with two living mafia and concurring nurse claims, right? isn't it better if we avoid the possibility?

i swear enchant's like 10 steps ahead of us and we dont even know it yet. they said we need to play the game and not stall. i feel like these questions are coming up because of the lack of the followup that tabibitos promised to do so.

im giving them the benefit of the doubt. because tabibitos will inherently explain why nurse claiming day 1 is good for their protect the nurse plan. (thats basically their strat) so . because im not understanding this nurse claim stuff yet.

i just thought it was a good idea because regardless of what doc protects the nurse, nurse will never die. i don't see the situation where nurse dies.

@elements can u enlighten me sum more? with an example

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Freedom

third vote if I'm counting right

yes good pressure

i need u to claim @freedom whats ur role

[GrandpaMo]

I don't feel this elim right now.

dw i dont either -- im just having fun

im waiting for galron's response fwiw.

i think we both have the same idea and its scaring me

[GrandpaMo]

I think at least one of Enchant or Grandpa are town (I ruled out their fight as being scum theater) and here's why:

231 is really similar to how Grandpa talked to me when he tried to get me to change my mind out of my FoS in 159. Unless Grandpa somehow predicted I would read back and look for this, I don't think Grandpa as scum would replicate the same approach he took with me that he would take with a scum buddy because the intent is very different. Then, in 259 I think if Grandpa and Enchant were doing scum theater Grandpa would have lashed back harder, because players take things less personally when they can laugh it out in a PT after, and I think that in a theater sense it would be natural to escalate the emotion there because they had started talking about religion.

hm interesting i was reading enchant off town after that interaction. why do u think their scum? i geininuly got a wholesome feeling from enchant -- am i biased for that read?

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: scandersvamp

This guy's votes are really bad.

By really bad, I mean that the timing of his votes are really scummy.

the only reason i am townreading vander is because of something they said earlier -- they were the one to bring up the sitatuion bout cpr resolving last and that would change things and was the one that opened up a discussion on that resulting in a mod question etc

[GrandpaMo]

Sorry not enough time or energy for this yet (about the mech stuff), I am fine doing what you guys agree on if it comes to that

As for reads, I thought about it and maybe Enchant is town for wanting to try targetting someone on their own early, it can e a prerogative to dismiss mech but it's probably town excited for potentially being a vig? Vigging is exciting after all.

Grandpa feels more likely town than not by saying stuff like "I already know the Nurse" on a setup where the Nurse may end up claiming anyway (otherwise it could be rolefishing). Not too sure about grandpa but I don't feel very good about anyone else so I'm gonna like his slot for now.

Elements mech solving is interesting, don't know what to think of that, did you ever do it before Elements? On what game?

- Aether

This is the first time I felt a scum ping reading Aether/Lumine posts

i still yet to have aether/lumine as in a high townread -- they are still ok but the problem is they keep dodging context talks and keep delaying their rsesponses. i am just giving them the benefit of the doubt

[GrandpaMo]

vander looks way better than freedom nd enchat fwiw

i think we should investigate it like this since enchant is also someone in interest.

im gonna group a town core with one common suspect in each group so i will group my bottom scumreads .

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, enchant

group a target enchant
group b target galron

[GrandpaMo]

vander looks way better than freedom nd enchat fwiw

i think we should investigate it like this since enchant is also someone in interest.

im gonna group a town core with one common suspect in each group so i will group my bottom scumreads .

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, enchant

group a target enchant
group b target galron

how does everyone think of this? IF we do choose to elim freeedom during the day.

[GrandpaMo]

vander looks way better than freedom nd enchat fwiw

i think we should investigate it like this since enchant is also someone in interest.

im gonna group a town core with one common suspect in each group so i will group my bottom scumreads .

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, enchant

group a target enchant
group b target galron

how does everyone think of this? IF we do choose to elim freeedom during the day.

Why are the groups targeting scum reads when we're more likely to protect than kill?

how will that work then? groups need to choose their town core? that wouldn't make sense

[GrandpaMo]

grandpa, have you played with vander before? is this confidence based off meta?

I have a small recall of his meta . im on my phone rn ill touch back on this question more once I can get back

[GrandpaMo]

vander looks way better than freedom nd enchat fwiw

i think we should investigate it like this since enchant is also someone in interest.

im gonna group a town core with one common suspect in each group so i will group my bottom scumreads .

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, enchant

group a target enchant
group b target galron

I am in group c which targets GrandpaMo.

we can do me vs u but I think for the sake of everyone else that would wasting a night

[GrandpaMo]

i declare myself serial killer alignment

we know why do u think ppl are avoiding u huh enchant huh?

don't ever stop and realize what monstritied you have done to this game? don't u ever stop and think about all the people u have hurt on the way? don't you ever just stop and think about me? ME enchant. yes me. the person who shown u the light and guidance from a far far distance but you gradually continue to refuse me and my support only just to claim serial killer.

it is I that shall show u the right path. no more atheism as you preached. none of that. it is time to follow your grandfather, GrandpaMo's earnest and wiseful wisdom.

now please bow your head down in prayer. In prayer that you have accomplished throughout your life. it is no more a curse but a truth you have been seeking for. a truth that you have been living for. living for not only just me but the MAFIASCUM community. now as I conclude, much love is awarded but it is lost as well.

so now you choose your fate and destiny, what do you choose? Amen in the name of GrandpaMo

[GrandpaMo]

how will that work then? groups need to choose their town core? that wouldn't make sense

group a - scoloisis, elements, enchant, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, gandpa

group a targets grandpa
group b targets elements

I understand why group b targets you but why would group a target me? and not Gimli?

[GrandpaMo]

how will that work then? groups need to choose their town core? that wouldn't make sense

group a - scoloisis, elements, enchant, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, gandpa

group a targets grandpa
group b targets elements

I understand why group b targets you but why would group a target me? and not Gimli?

mhm nvm. do not answer this

[GrandpaMo]

I like it.

[GrandpaMo]

Alternatively we can do the targeting scumreads plan if we get a scum flip and do the targeting townreads plan if we get a town flip

wait elements what do u think of this? if the person we elim today flips scum then we go with my group selections and if the person we elim today flips town we go with yours?

does that make sense

[GrandpaMo]

not surprised he is like anime

i mean he is not real

its crazy because im not the anime person u think I am

and plus someone made me this pfp on mafiascum . its someone else's pfp but with pink hair .

[GrandpaMo]

okay. I still don't like it, but if everyone is fine with it, sure.

@freedom you're agreeing with mech talk but you're not bringing up at all that we're assuming you flip today? you're not defending yourself?

I missed that part.
I would prefer an elimination on Vanders tbh but it doesn't tha feel like hat wagon will get much traction.
I think that the plan is fine by itself in that I agree that we should be targeting TRs.

why do you think we should target trs???

bruh is this too scum to be scumm. make sure to include why


im surprised u haven't used chatgpt

[GrandpaMo]

how will that work then? groups need to choose their town core? that wouldn't make sense

group a - scoloisis, elements, enchant, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, gandpa

group a targets grandpa
group b targets elements

Is anyone opposed to this?
If we end up liking someone other than freedom just replace their name with freedom's in the groupings

also elements, we are on the same level like I know exactly everything you are doing and why. im reading ur mind and im like 98% sure u know what I know.

right?

[GrandpaMo]

okay. I still don't like it, but if everyone is fine with it, sure.

@freedom you're agreeing with mech talk but you're not bringing up at all that we're assuming you flip today? you're not defending yourself?

I missed that part.
I would prefer an elimination on Vanders tbh but it doesn't tha feel like hat wagon will get much traction.
I think that the plan is fine by itself in that I agree that we should be targeting TRs.

why do you think we should target trs???

bruh is this too scum to be scumm. make sure to include why


im surprised u haven't used chatgpt

In case we protect them, obviously.

why aren't you pushing vander ?

[GrandpaMo]

In fact this plan is worse than my original plan because it doesn't even protect the conftown among us.

- Aether

are u talking about elements?

i mean we have been waiting for you since two-three days ago when you first made that post, promsing to update us.

so we didnt really have any guidance -- i tried to follow it and im pretty sure elements is just an abstract version of your plan

[GrandpaMo]

Never mind I don't think I have a complete solve yet but I think I have decent reads maybe? Gonna drop them and some explaining on weekend hopefully

can u give basic 1 sentence explanation?

[GrandpaMo]

a

scumslip

[GrandpaMo]

Never mind I don't think I have a complete solve yet but I think I have decent reads maybe? Gonna drop them and some explaining on weekend hopefully

can u give basic 1 sentence explanation?

Of what? My reads?

I wanted to re read and mull over more before saying it in the thread but basically atm I think you and Gimli are town, you sound too excited to "vibe" with people contributing to the game and Gimli sounds like a classical newish townie trying to solve the game by picking the weirdest posts (weird =/= scummy)

Enchant more likely town than not for the vigging thing and I will try to make it sound less of a dumb reason later but it just strikes me as the sort of thing mafia wouldn't think about faking?

I have one scum lean though and two slots I am trying to decipher but 3 town reads in a micro D1 is a lot to me already?

I think I can get scum by PoE wih some luck

Very basic explanation of where I am

- aether

u haven't explained who u scumread

[GrandpaMo]

okay. I still don't like it, but if everyone is fine with it, sure.

@freedom you're agreeing with mech talk but you're not bringing up at all that we're assuming you flip today? you're not defending yourself?

I missed that part.
I would prefer an elimination on Vanders tbh but it doesn't tha feel like hat wagon will get much traction.
I think that the plan is fine by itself in that I agree that we should be targeting TRs.

why do you think we should target trs???

bruh is this too scum to be scumm. make sure to include why


im surprised u haven't used chatgpt

In case we protect them, obviously.

why aren't you pushing vander ?

Did you miss the part where I tried to?
I got called OMGUS for doing that.

there's 2 maf who is ur partner?

[GrandpaMo]

try to kill them and swing the momentum of the game.

u believe u have that much weight so far?

[GrandpaMo]

Never mind I don't think I have a complete solve yet but I think I have decent reads maybe? Gonna drop them and some explaining on weekend hopefully

can u give basic 1 sentence explanation?

Of what? My reads?

I wanted to re read and mull over more before saying it in the thread but basically atm I think you and Gimli are town, you sound too excited to "vibe" with people contributing to the game and Gimli sounds like a classical newish townie trying to solve the game by picking the weirdest posts (weird =/= scummy)

Enchant more likely town than not for the vigging thing and I will try to make it sound less of a dumb reason later but it just strikes me as the sort of thing mafia wouldn't think about faking?

I have one scum lean though and two slots I am trying to decipher but 3 town reads in a micro D1 is a lot to me already?

I think I can get scum by PoE wih some luck

Very basic explanation of where I am

- aether

Yeah I think this is the general direction of the town and I pretty much agree with it

Gimli and enchant are less town than you and grandpa but still town

idk why you townread this or think its town indictave. tabibitos hasn't done yet since their mech strat plan they came up with.

they are reading people that already have a general consensus on. u should have tabibitos below gimli and enchant imo

[GrandpaMo]

TBH I am willing to vote Tabibitos as a compromise, considering how much they've actually contributed to solving transparently.

ok this confirms freedom as scum.

if you dont realiez what i have been doing for the past few posts -- i have been hinting at one of my scumreads to turn out tabibitos (for example me saying oh they are lacking, they havent contributing -- it feels like I was setting up a read)

i purposefully did that to see if anyone fall in the trap oh bringing the idea of tabibitos being scum with my SAID reasons.

scolosis also did the same thing in the beginning of the game and (probably also gave tabibitos the benefit of the doubt too) -- i instantly saw that and continued on the tabibitos train (also my real read on tabibitos -- is still a very hard null now not scum or town like i had before)

so hearing this coming from freedom that they want tabibitos because of the lack of posting is basically scum finding out that we were discussing tabibitos's alignment because of MY TRAP i set out and therefore tyring to find the right opportunity to say they are willing to vote tabibitos because they believe they will get towncred for not only pushing them but also having other people on board as well.


im sorry but im too big brain

[GrandpaMo]

Never mind I don't think I have a complete solve yet but I think I have decent reads maybe? Gonna drop them and some explaining on weekend hopefully

can u give basic 1 sentence explanation?

Of what? My reads?

I wanted to re read and mull over more before saying it in the thread but basically atm I think you and Gimli are town, you sound too excited to "vibe" with people contributing to the game and Gimli sounds like a classical newish townie trying to solve the game by picking the weirdest posts (weird =/= scummy)

Enchant more likely town than not for the vigging thing and I will try to make it sound less of a dumb reason later but it just strikes me as the sort of thing mafia wouldn't think about faking?

I have one scum lean though and two slots I am trying to decipher but 3 town reads in a micro D1 is a lot to me already?

I think I can get scum by PoE wih some luck

Very basic explanation of where I am

- aether

Yeah I think this is the general direction of the town and I pretty much agree with it

Gimli and enchant are less town than you and grandpa but still town

idk why you townread this or think its town indictave. tabibitos hasn't done yet since their mech strat plan they came up with.

they are reading people that already have a general consensus on. u should have tabibitos below gimli and enchant imo

I don't have that post as especially towny but I really liked their mech stuff earlier.

i was literally saying that. "liked their mech stuff earlier" yeah i said "hasn't dont anything yet since their mech stuff" . lol

and they never sought to ever explain after.

[GrandpaMo]

TBH I am willing to vote Tabibitos as a compromise, considering how much they've actually contributed to solving transparently.

ok this confirms freedom as scum.

if you dont realiez what i have been doing for the past few posts -- i have been hinting at one of my scumreads to turn out tabibitos (for example me saying oh they are lacking, they havent contributing -- it feels like I was setting up a read)

i purposefully did that to see if anyone fall in the trap oh bringing the idea of tabibitos being scum with my SAID reasons.

scolosis also did the same thing in the beginning of the game and (probably also gave tabibitos the benefit of the doubt too) -- i instantly saw that and continued on the tabibitos train (also my real read on tabibitos -- is still a very hard null now not scum or town like i had before)

so hearing this coming from freedom that they want tabibitos because of the lack of posting is basically scum finding out that we were discussing tabibitos's alignment because of MY TRAP i set out and therefore tyring to find the right opportunity to say they are willing to vote tabibitos because they believe they will get towncred for not only pushing them but also having other people on board as well.


im sorry but im too big brain

I think you're getting too confbiased here.

hm idk why i like this reaction -- because i was going to admit that i do have some of confirmation bias. but i still think scum would do this.

can u lay out what u made u come up with that read and why, and when?

[GrandpaMo]

good enough to have them above Gimli and Enchant.

why?

[GrandpaMo]

Here's a hot take: if you're town why don't you talk about an original read or explanation for a read on someone rather than just parroting what others say?

Well.
I could explain my Galron read if you want.
He's mainly nullscum for me as he hasn't really done much but he's on V/LA and he didn't really anything super scummy.

that's not an original scumread...

[GrandpaMo]

LOVE IT

their reaction ruined it because i geninuely liked their reaction just for a little bit.

[GrandpaMo]

bruh idk who scum is 100 percent anymore atp . i had 100 percents now they at 80 max. im not confident. and my confidence usually costs me my gamesolves. scolosis how do u do it so well? lol

elements pls my medical assistant, please help me

we might as well scumread galron till they come back on the thread.

[GrandpaMo]

On the other hand, Grandpa is my top TR rn as he seems genuinely trying to solve and move the game forward, despite his unfortunate confbias.

awe thx bookie.

too bad ur in my bottom 3

wait.. u have that perception of a TR, then why arent you doing the same? why aren't you trying to solve? why aren't you trying to move the game forward. You see how people are becoming upset with you? You know why? Because you are not moving forward with the game, you are not giving original reads. You just keep spiraling back in endless circles, making it seem like you are a mafia who is just TRYING to keep up with the game.

How can I know you are being genuine?

You are probably playing this specific playstyle because you are an alt and you don't want to get found out, fair, but it's impeding on your actions and alignment midgame and therefore people start scumreading you because you are GENINULY playing as a mafia.

So, I advise you to try to reevaulate your "nonchalant, few reads there, and look like im gamesolving because im busy and lazy a bit, and also wanna act serious so i can impress or look good" to a more geninue and authentic tone. I don't believe you are being authentic and neither does probably the whole lobby.

I advise you to relook at the whole game and give me a full readlist.

Do what I did at least and have a list of all the players (go to mod post #1 for reference)

and just give a basic sentence or two next to their name and tell me what you think of them including alignment and why.

Is this asking for too much? I am doing this not only in favor of you but in favor of other people trying to read you as right now it's hard. And we want to get a better understanding of where you are coming from especially if you are staying consistent (in regards to your playstyle/posting style)

[GrandpaMo]

Sure.
My reads rn are:

Town

GrandpaMo (Listed reasons in 561)
Gimli (Seems solvey) | Elements (Seems to be coming up with ways to help Town)
Scoliosis (Nulltown)
Enchant (Null)
Galron (Listed reasons in 560) | Vanderscamp (I don't really like the timing of vote but seems all right otherwise.)
Tabibitos (Listed reasons in 557, though I feel like a lot of my problems is to do with me not liking Lumine's posting)

Mafia

were you able to relook the game ?

[GrandpaMo]

BTW Happy birthday, Elements!

<3

elements pls my medical assistant, please help me

I'm probably not going to post for the rest of the day as 1) It's my birthday and 2) I've just tested +ve for covid so I'm busy feeling sorry for myself

omg first happy birthday and thats ok i hgope u feel better.

i think i got it.

[GrandpaMo]

and I'm sorry freedom I hope you're scum and I'll try to win this game for you if you're town <3

i dont like this from u lol

[GrandpaMo]

Can we talk a bit about Vanders this game, i feel like all he's been doing is agreeing with everyone else. Like when he claimed our plan was so great and he townread us and also when he loved Grandpamos scum case. I don't really see him doing much other than react to what everyone else is doing.

- Lumine

Yeah I half agree to some extent

somebody pointed it out (i think it was scolosis) and vander is def someone on the lookout -- and like i said i only had them townread because of the order of operations question they brought up so it was like why would scum bring that up?

and elements?

can u expand more on that?

[GrandpaMo]

if you wanna drag the day I'm fine with that as well

If there's nothing new or meaningful by the time someone else votes, I'll hammer

dont hammer yet

[GrandpaMo]

tabibitos' posts didn't go anywhere

see thats the problem i have tabibitos now. they never finished their strategy and never suggested anything. in fact, tabibitos should be townreading elements because elements was the only one to come up with solid foreseeable plan for all of us to go on. it just seems hypocritical for tabibitos to push elements for something they never did lol

i do agree on the vanderscum train and that probably can be reavualted tmr

galron is still a wack slot rn with no contibutiions. as well enchant (but their posts were way more townier than galron) and its frustrating

pls pressure galron tmr.

galron > vander > tabibitos > enchant > scolosis > gimli > elements (yall should never pressure this slot and for good reason)

[GrandpaMo]

that's the plan, people

wait thats not the full plan

[GrandpaMo]

see thats the problem i have tabibitos now. they never finished their strategy and never suggested anything

You guys didn't even discuss what I posted on reads just now.

It's fine but like, do you want me to keep posting so much even if no one cares? C'mon Grandpa, if no one cares I'm just gonna shut up. Let's do what you guys already want to do, I'm tired and don't want to try convincing everyone on something new again.

- Aether

i literally did. u have ur chance to explain. i have been waiting for the past 3 days. and giving u the benefit of the doubt.

i care -- im listening, i told u i disagreed with ur read on elements because it felt hypocritical but agree on vander, and im willing to switch to vander but too many people on freedom already and vander can just be looked at (investigated) through night actions.

i dont see the problem ur posing here.

[GrandpaMo]

past 3 days

nvm i think ever since the start of this game which idek how many days is that

[GrandpaMo]

I'm unwilling to even consider.

just some advice, u will need to reconsider when a certain death occurs. ok?

[GrandpaMo]

ALSO HERE ARE THE GROUP ASSIGNMENTS

if FREEDOM flips

SCUM

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, enchant

group a target vander
group b target galron

if FREEDOM flips

TOWN

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, galron, gimli
group b - vander, enchant, tabibitos, grandpa

group a targets grandpa
group b targets elements

[GrandpaMo]

I wanna lose to elements if she is mafia, sorry if that's too little WIM for you guys

ig u didnt get my hint

[GrandpaMo]

B) Everyone except someone (?Enchant?) targets the Nurse (which guarantees she doesn't die I believe)

why enchant?

[GrandpaMo]

no, we do what elements and grandpa suggested

Well Grandpa now you can't say I didn't try

let's do as you Elems said

yea but the problem is -- its too late, if u think elements is scum then scumelements took over the game because u were able to come early in the game and convince us back there. does that make sense? i completely understand but to scum, its an easy opportunity to shut u up and basically and not listen to you, and to town, same thing to most people

[GrandpaMo]

and give me a sec, i have an interview, i will talk to u more

[GrandpaMo]

Do you realize "Elem's plan" is basically my plan without outing the Nurse and the second group also protecting a town read?

thats a whole diff plan then.


there is only so much "strategy" u can do. variations will have tocome up for example my idea with 2 people groups or elements idea with dependence on day flip, or your idea which is nurse out, protect/invesitgate.

[GrandpaMo]

no, we do what elements and grandpa suggested

Well Grandpa now you can't say I didn't try

let's do as you Elems said

yea but the problem is -- its too late, if u think elements is scum then scumelements took over the game because u were able to come early in the game and convince us back there. does that make sense? i completely understand but to scum, its an easy opportunity to shut u up and basically and not listen to you, and to town, same thing to most people

Yeah it makes sense and is what I told you back there? No offense Grandpa but I don't understand your point.

I realized all this before you explained to me and that's why I didn't talk about a "new plan" or insist on Elems. If you guys already reached a conclusion about both of those things that's fine by me, I'm fine with ending the day and also compromissing on Freedom if I need to.

- Aether

my point is that you keep pushing a certain adgenda expecting people to follow it -- im trying to tell you why people wont from an unbiased perspective.

u agree with me.

[GrandpaMo]

ALSO HERE ARE THE GROUP ASSIGNMENTS

if FREEDOM flips

SCUM

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, vander, tabibitos, enchant

group a target vander
group b target galron

if FREEDOM flips

TOWN

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, galron, gimli
group b - vander, enchant, tabibitos, grandpa

group a targets grandpa
group b targets elements

I second this

@tabibitos, it's the same thing if we condemn vander today and have group a target freedom instead.

one is just getting investigated more quickly then the other . and becomes (more confirmed to some extent)

[GrandpaMo]

Wouldn’t really miss Freedom slot if they are town or scum but i do think Vanders overall has bigger scum equity so that would be the better flip today.

- Lumine

why? i heard aether's reason, why u ?,

[GrandpaMo]

if VANDER flips

SCUM

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, freedom, tabibitos, enchant

group a target freedom
group b target galron

if VANDER flips

TOWN

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, galron, gimli
group b -freedom, enchant, tabibitos, grandpa

group a targets grandpa
group b targets elements

so like this.

[GrandpaMo]

i want to hammer

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Vander

VOTE: vander whatever you prefer, captain

i think u just hammered lol

[GrandpaMo]

Official Round 1.6 Votecount

Elimination

Freedom

(3): GrandpaMo, Vanderscamp, Gimli

Vanderscamp

(2): Scoliosis, Freedom

GrandpaMo

(1): Enchant

Not Voting

(3): Galron, Elements, Tabibitos


With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2023-01-11 14:17:17)

Mod notes:

Galron V/LA until 1/9.
I am using a vote counter. If the count seems off or other fookery is afoot, please let me know.

Ah, I think Scoliosis is the unique slot I kinda like a bit that I haven't explained why:

It's basically because he seems to have a genuine bloodlust for finding scum and arrived at similar suspicious about Vanders as me. Doesn't feel a lot like a bus so perhaps if Vanders is really scum he's just town? Maybe? Gonna leave at that for now.

VOTE: Vanderscamp

I can compromise on Freedom though, just think Vanders or Elements is a bit more likely to flip scum than Freedom here for reasons explained.

- Aether

VOTE: Vander

VOTE: Vander

VOTE: vander whatever you prefer, captain

u just hammered

everyone follow my plan

[GrandpaMo]

if VANDER flips

SCUM

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, grandpa, galron
group b - gimli, freedom, tabibitos, enchant

group a target freedom
group b target galron

if VANDER flips

TOWN

FOLLOW THIS

group a - scoloisis, elements, galron, gimli
group b -freedom, enchant, tabibitos, grandpa

group a targets grandpa
group b targets elements

so like this.

EVERYONE FOLLOW THIS !!!!!

[GrandpaMo]

vander is not the nurse. i am!

[GrandpaMo]

I hardclaim nurse

I literally CC that.

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Gimli

lol.

[GrandpaMo]

HEAL: Elements
HEAL: Elements
HEAL: Elements
HEAL: Elements
HEAL: Elements

[GrandpaMo]

Can we make a post counter on how many people soft claimed nurse?

Multiple times too.

[GrandpaMo]

No I'm sparticus!

We all know you are the real nurse, being fully townread by the whole townread.

Also wouldn't be surprised if Scolosis and Tabibitos are scumteam together

[GrandpaMo]

stop nurse hunting lol

Can you stop trying to WIFOM and pretend that you're not the actual nurse? Lol

[GrandpaMo]

your avatar suits you well grandpa

thanks i forgot who made it for me. but it was a game where i played and this person was making it for people, we all had different color hair so mine was pink!

[GrandpaMo]

oh wait... nvm i did the coloring myself for that. i just wanted to be cool ig

[GrandpaMo]

Also, on a serious note, I digested what Tabitos said, and after looking back on their ISO, Vander will 100% flip scum.

[GrandpaMo]

ISO'd vander. fine with this kill.

WTF YO UR WEIRD

[GrandpaMo]

fuck that shit.

tabitos u ruined my reasoning.

i knew elements was nurse the whole time. they were soft claiming to me the whole time . they even softed in the beginning. so sorry dude.

im sad they died.

all of a sudden freedom wants to act smart and contribute?

bruh come on .

we should have got them yesterday.

we had the like the 2nd WORST choice happening at night 2 town dead including nurse

[GrandpaMo]

lol @ our plan

this plan is actually good.

also scum is outted fwiw

[GrandpaMo]

i think these are the groupos right here

freedom / enchant

galron / scolisios

im just going to townread u gimli.

im also assuming scolosis is town

galron / enchant / freedom 2 scum in here.

im gonna analyze the deaths real quick to give a more objective answer

[GrandpaMo]

Because there's a few possible scenarios here why you want me to unvote Galron but not Gimli to unvote me.

1. You TR Galron
   
2. You SR me
   
3. You're scum with Garlon
   
4. You're scum with Gimli
   
5. Occam's Razor: You see that I know it's MELO but voted Galron, who I scumlean, but you don't

this just looks like a filler scumtalk

[GrandpaMo]

group a contains the JKer (or vander was the JKer)
group b contains quack

does that help at all? no it doesn't. gg plan

giv me a sec