Micro 75: Bureaucracy Mafia (Game Over)

[njoseph]

"Military Intelligence": Don't volunteer for ANYTHING.
NO dibs on these first two papers.

[njoseph]

Clarification: I MYSELF call no dibs on them; feel free to call dibs for yourself. Free country.

[njoseph]

*can buy diapers for my adult self*
*so __ is free*

[njoseph]

*reads a timely quote*
*and gives mith an Honorary Doctorate of Letters*

[njoseph]

A mandate from Maestro regarding RVS/nonsensicalness?

Players Alive

maverick_alpha

Breakfast

Jake from State Farm
Shamrock
Maestro
pirate mollie
njoseph
Aj The Epic
Robert2424

Is it healthful to be active and expend energy in an RVS event before Breakfast?

[njoseph]

Who's fault would that unhealthfulness really be? ?

VOTE: Breakfast

[njoseph]

For maverick's question,
UTC - 5 (It is 12:26 where I'm at.)

This is I. P.M., also.

[njoseph]

For maverick's question,
UTC - 5 (It is 12:26 where I'm at.)

This is I. P.M., also.

when you say pm are you referring to me?

do I know you?

Post meridiem!

[njoseph]

Oh, R.V.S. ended with a post, the number of which was in the high 30s. Barometric pressure moves the barometer to unvote configuration ...

UNVOTE

[njoseph]

Maestro:town
Y:Call it intuition.
Processing what this might suggest ...

[njoseph]

Whatever zone of the brain that tells Maestro/Shamrock that Jake from State Farm must be scummy for his actions, so far, is an erroneous zone.

[njoseph]

Hmm, I was hoping for an overreaction that would give me a townread on you. Instead I got a headache. Oh well.

UNVOTE: Aj
VOTE: Jake

Is a thought process in your brain telling you that there is a condemning quality to Jake from State Farm's actions so far?

[njoseph]

Hmm, I was hoping for an overreaction that would give me a townread on you. Instead I got a headache. Oh well.

UNVOTE: Aj
VOTE: Jake

Q:

Is a thought process in your brain telling you that there is a condemning quality to Jake from State Farm's actions so far?

Apparent answer from Shamrock:

No

I write "Apparent" to:

Jog my mind about what scum theoretically want to do, which is appear not scummy. Someone mention motive(s), and if we go

with this theoretical, then "scum motives" might have to be replaced with the notion of "hollow town motives."

In other words, the issue is who is trying to look like they are acting with town motivation while not quite doing it bona fide-ly?

Whiteknighting is an example of trying to do something that would prove, seemingly, to be a pro-town decision in the event of a

town flip. Yet the act of whiteknighting is not truly a uniquely town-motivated act.

I think Shamrock's unvote from the person with the cube in his/her avatar is implicit whiteknighting of that person. Wagoning for

the sake of wagoning on Jake and giving a pass because of "headache" would be a subtle way of having a stint of a vote on one

person and then switching to a more opportune vote.

Town does not hope for OVERreaction. They hope for reaction. The fact that Shamrock said "overreaction" implies he thought the

cube guy would go ballistic or something, which implies he really has CERTITUDE of his towniness: the only way ballistics happens

usually is when someone votes someone for a reason that's not holding water. Scum, like Jerry Sandusky (for a pizzazz-y

example), would be more understanding of a accusatory vote because they know they might ooze suspect aurae that merits it. On

the other hand, townies have a hatred of being read wrong and can overreact in tandem with this. Shamrock implies a certitude

of this overreaction's being a potential outflow from the cube guy, an outflow which should only come from a townie, and then

backs off when he doesn't get it, and has a convenient place to park his vote on Jake, and admittedly gave a look inside his mind

that he doesn't actually see Jake as having been scummy.

I think Shamrock too easily got off of the cube guy, which might seem like a townie thing because the claimed reason

was "headache," which an authentic townie might not feel worried to claim, but this claim that might look townie is not actually

townie as it is too convenient for anyone to use in order to just get off from someone that they no longer deem opportune or

practical to be on.

Note: You might be able to tell that I am getting ready to move to somewhere for eating purposes and write this all to get more

meaty stuff out of the way before eating there.

VOTE: Shamrock

[njoseph]

What's the big deal? Maestro and Jake both picked up papers and we don't know what they are? Are they both scum? If not, then let's pretend the paper-picking did not happen and scum hunt.

[njoseph]

All I see is two people whose paper's contents are not being revealed; that goes for both Jake AND Maestro; and Jake's recent activity's being explanations that are only natural because of being questioned apparently because of being more EXPLICIT about not revealing stuff than Maestro.

[njoseph]

And it's only natural that scum hunting is at a trough due to a disproportionate focus on somebody being non-disclosing of the paper.

[njoseph]

^ This is the kind of contribution I was looking, at minimum.
Just be clearer next time, rather than saying "stuff", Jake.

Jesus...

Also, you should give me your paper tonight if you're Town.
I'll give it back, I just want to know what it says.

P-Edit @AJ: I was going to say something about that.
@Joe: Contribute real content or don't gripe about the path the game takes.

How would you know that you can just be GIVEN a paper by someone else?

[njoseph]

Someone needs to put Jake at L-1

The fact that YOU posted this makes me think it's information that should not be disclosed lest manipulation.

[njoseph]

Maestro/maverick_alpha, is there a Reason you want the paper or do you just like goodies?

Is the Reason you asked this question that --> putting accusatory pressure on some of the nondisclosers was your next step?

[njoseph]

All I see is two people whose paper's contents are not being revealed; that goes for both Jake AND Maestro; and Jake's recent activity's being explanations that are only natural because of being questioned apparently because of being more EXPLICIT about not revealing stuff than Maestro.

Also rephrase this, it's practically gobbledyguk.

Jake and Maestro are both not revealing contents. The only difference with Jake is that he is EXPLICITLY saying, I'm a sealed pair of lips. In principle, TWO pairs of lips are sealed. Why only criticism on Jake for this?

[njoseph]

Why so hard on Jake. He's only looking worse because he's on the defense, which is because he's being the only one criticized for this

[njoseph]

Shamrock, Aj the Epic: If you want to find out whether the contents of paper warrant not disclosing them, pick them up and find this out for yourselves next time.

[njoseph]

All I see is two people whose paper's contents are not being revealed; that goes for both Jake AND Maestro; and Jake's recent activity's being explanations that are only natural because of being questioned apparently because of being more EXPLICIT about not revealing stuff than Maestro.

Also rephrase this, it's practically gobbledyguk.

Jake and Maestro are both not revealing contents. The only difference with Jake is that he is EXPLICITLY saying, I'm a sealed pair of lips. In principle, TWO pairs of lips are sealed. Why only criticism on Jake for this?

well it looks like maestro is being pretty disclosive now!

Because I have a paper and I was told I could give it to somebody during the Night.

Saying you can show someone a paper does not equal disclosing the essential contents.

[njoseph]

So is case on Jake ... ---> smartass?

[njoseph]

So is he who wants most to extort information from Jake ... --> scum?

[njoseph]

Answer 1: That would be a bad case
Answer 2: Yeppers

[njoseph]

1) Smartass, or smartass-like, is not really a scum tell.
2) Another thing in your post was that he did not disclose feelings about scum, but he said he did not get reads so far. Sounds genuine to me.

[njoseph]

Maestro, no tag-teaming with Aj.
Aj The Epic, would you say that I am tunneling Shamrock?

[njoseph]

I'm not complaining so much about him not disclosing the paper's contents,
for a while I was against him because he was actively refusing to contribute.

When he FINALLY clarified that this was because he did not have any idea where to start contributing (lack or reads/investment/time, etc.), I accepted that answer.

IN FACT, your extreme defense of him is raising more eyebrows of mine than Jake himself even did.

Also, why NOT jump on somebody for doing something so blatantly antiTown early in the game? Nothing anybody did was going to get us out of RVS, Joe. It wasn't like we had much else to go on at the time - and don't come in here with "He said he did not get reads so far. Sounds genuine to me." and act all defensive when the obvious fact is that until the last page (IIRC) Jake had said nothing about "Oh, I don't really know what to contribute so I haven't been, blahblahblah". That looks like you blatantly turning later information against past actions, e.g. you're using later information to make it look like my past actions were wrongfull. This is circular/incorrect logic and it looks bad.

P-Edit @AJ: Good question AJ! Anybody else find it interesting that Joe only came in after Jake looked like he was being seriously pressured?

Why join him on the team of "this is a good question"? It's not. The question-asker tries to make me look bad before a flip by saying was it extreme defense or something I would try to pass off as a counterargument in good sport.

[njoseph]

I was more suggesting the idea of your being fairly confident apparently that Jake would flip for some reason and seem poised to use it against me.

[njoseph]

*would flip SCUM

[njoseph]

Well, my brain was basically primed, in post #53, for seeing people get more and more entangled in their belief of Jake's actions meaning he was scum. Since I thought it was an erroneous belief at that time then, I think it's more entrenched and worthy of a different perspective's being voiced now.

[njoseph]

Why so quick to say "lynched"? Why not "replaced"? Bloodthirsty scum, hmm, ?

[njoseph]

Also Robert is RVSing outside RVS but it probably doesn't matter because he's a newbie

I only have want to half address this post. I've never heard of RVSing or I might call it something different. I have no idea what your talking about.

As for Jake, I understand people reservation on him being scum, but there are 2 pieces of paper with "Stuff" on it. if he's just hogging it, you should share as the info might be useful, but then again, if I was modding, I'd just put the papers in as flavor. (3 out of the 10 times). If I was going to put a D1 suspicion list, I'd go with the following.

Jake,
Shamrock,
Private mollie,

course mainly these are gut feelings besides Jake, I'm not entirely willing to vote for Jake, unless he actually stops "hogging the paper". But who has the other paper?

also, sorry for being inactive all day yesterday, was busy with work and junk. Couldn't log into these forums or any forums when I tried to yesterday. My activity should be back to normal.

There's no "should share info." It could be a PR. Don't claim PRs on day 1.

[njoseph]

I wasn't pinged]

[njoseph]

But wouldn't there have to be relatively sizeable amount of scum for #6 to be reasonable?

This was posted by me.

[njoseph]

Calling it:
Jake v. Aj:Town v. Town

[njoseph]

cool story bro

Can you tell me a story about why Robert and Shamrock don't look like a Mafia team?

[njoseph]

cool story bro

Can you tell me a story about why Robert and Shamrock don't look like a Mafia team?

[njoseph]

Just want input into whether Shamrock would be bussing Robert.
From my view that I have developed, I don't think he would buss him in this situation.
The thing that bothers me about Breakfast is not gut, as pirate mollie implied in her own vote post, but the tunneling on Aj as if Breakfast does not have any town motivation to expand her primary focus off him. Having reviewed, I think Shamrock and Breakfast > Shamrock and Robert, in terms of looking more greatly like a Mafia team.

UNVOTE

VOTE: Breakfast

[njoseph]

The scum team could easily be within {robert2424, pirate mollie, Breakfast}.

This was the first time you dropped Breakfast's name, and it's as a scum at the end of the list. The previous post that you made that had something to do with Breakfast (and I believe the very first one that had anything to do with her) was to ask why pirate mollie, who voted for Breakfast, was pinged by Breakfast. Hmm...

[njoseph]

Why did you include Breakfast as one scum in your set of three?

[njoseph]

Sounds like you articulated what would be a credible reason. Scum or not, it makes sense enough for you to write that.
Either way, Breakfast does not look good.

[njoseph]

Does anybody think Breakfast has exhibited examples of town-tells?

[njoseph]

Might aw well point out that I never voted for Rob

[njoseph]

*as

[njoseph]

As much as a Shamrock lynch was okay to me, Breakfast is a mafio who is much more able to be lynched.

[njoseph]

Now is

L-1

on Breakfast.

[njoseph]

maverick_alpha, you are being the target of inquiry by two people.

[njoseph]

I assume Shamrock "likes bandwagons."

[njoseph]

Does anyone think it is not useful to role claim in this game? Respond.

[njoseph]

What I should of said to express more of what I thought:
Does anyone AGREE with me that it is not useful to role claim in this game? Respond.

[njoseph]

Does anyone think it is not useful to role claim in this game? Respond.

Why wouldn't it be?

If role claim prompts WIFOM

This was my post.

[njoseph]

Let's draw a line when the setup is CLOSED. Let's avoid such WIFOM that could be brought to n existence in a closed setup.

[njoseph]

Wtf are you talking about? No. We need a claim.

Bureaucrat is probably the claim; if it's not, in this game where Mafia is not aware of town role names, then what?

[njoseph]

Empking said it was quite a VANILLA mafia game in the queue.

[njoseph]

Theory box:
[Stable wagons => consider the scum's bussing]

[njoseph]

*ahem*:

Might aw well point out that I never voted for Rob

I posted this.

[njoseph]

The only one who really wrote bona fide stuff instead of a promise to post later since I last posted was pirate mollie. Oh well, I had a fever etc. yesterday anyway.

[njoseph]

@Jake/everybody on the wagon: Breakfast tomorrow.

VOTE: maverick_alpha

Was wondering when someone would put maverick_alpha on the shooting range

UNVOTE

VOTE: maverick_alpha

[njoseph]

"Breakfast tomorrow" jives with thinking my original vote was right while at the same time coming along with a resolve to have another person who has looked bad to me lynched.

[njoseph]

It is not unheard of to have thoughts about no lynch on Day One.

[njoseph]

If maverick_alpha's not at least at L-1 by 7:39 P.M. my time, I will be back to voting Breakfast.
You're having your chance businessmen motherf*****!

[njoseph]

If maverick_alpha's not at least at L-1 by 7:39 P.M. my time, I will be back to voting Breakfast.
You're having your chance businessmen motherf*****!

[njoseph]

Who says it was a change in suspicion?
So what if I didn't do a revealing of another suspicion? It's not always to be done.
See if this example of a mathematical construct looks like an answer to your question: {maverick_alpha, Breakfast} = {scumspect, scumspect}

[njoseph]

You talk about 3 people being scum, and never mention the 4th, now you vote the 4th based off nothing really and demand him to be put at L-1. Where I come from that is suspicious.

Message received

[njoseph]

Message had been read

[njoseph]

I might service your request in about 50 minutes.

[njoseph]

If maverick_alpha's not at least at L-1 by 7:

3

19 P.M. my time, I will be back to voting Breakfast.
You're having your chance businessmen motherf*****!

I changed my "policy."

UNVOTE

VOTE: Breakfast

[njoseph]

Jake, Robert, how about if one of you voted for Breakfast?< >

[njoseph]

Heh, hmm. Heh, hmm.

[njoseph]

Okay, for posterity: tunneling like Breakfast's is not a scum tell.

[njoseph]

Can we consider this?: Jake from State Farm died ...
... cui bono?

[njoseph]

As far as I know NKs aren't usually to create WIFOM. Frequency there's a "practical" reason. What could be "more than that"?

[njoseph]

VOTE: Robert2424

Scum not contributing terribly much\

[njoseph]

*One-individual-scum not contributing terribly much

[njoseph]

The other individual-scum COULD be m_a :/

[njoseph]

UNVOTE

Is Robert not the most scummy? Who does town think is most scummy?

[njoseph]

*Whom

[njoseph]

Take a dunk in grape juice!

[njoseph]

Does anybody want more papers?

[njoseph]

Would knowing whether a person would say "Yes" or "No" to that question of mine be informative?

[njoseph]

Eh, retractin' my question.

[njoseph]

Well, EYE want moar papers. Was wondering if scum wouldn't?

[njoseph]

Not "expecting," "WONDERING."

[njoseph]

Okay, Mathematics to try to make decisions in Mafia is genuine effort.
I already said that the "other" scum could be m_a. There were two papers, and one COULD have included a scum's name.

VOTE: maverick_alpha

[njoseph]

It is still relevant that m_a hasn't been on contributing much

[njoseph]

It is still relevant that m_a hasn't been on contributing much

[njoseph]

@MOD: Maestro's vote should be on maverick_alpha

[njoseph]

Okay, Mathematics to try to make decisions in Mafia is genuine effort.
I already said that the "other" scum could be m_a. There were two papers, and one COULD have included a scum's name.

VOTE: maverick_alpha

Shamrock: Look at a vote on a scum. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[njoseph]

Aj, Shamrock: Is there stuff about Maestro that you agree on?

[njoseph]

I mean explicit stuff that you agree on

[njoseph]

Shamrock, explain persuant to what is asked of you^

[njoseph]

*pursuant

[njoseph]

When's deadline anyway?

[njoseph]

I don't think it looks terrible at all - and apparently Shamrock agrees that Jake was so likely to be killed that I should not have worried about being NKed. Either way, I'm not lying about the paper, and what would it matter if I gave it away? If I gave it to Scum they would either deny receiving it or deny maverick's name, especially if he is actually Scum - as I believe he is.

yabbut why would jake be killed over you and yes it does look terrible.

One of them had to die if they're both scum :/

[njoseph]

*both town

[njoseph]

:/

[njoseph]

Maybe Aj didn't see your response? He said he didn't know something about you and asked you because of that not knowing, didn't he? ... <shrug>

[njoseph]

*asked you a question because of that not knowing

[njoseph]

m_a, vote for someone?

[njoseph]

Being too dramatic Maestro; I've done that]

UNVOTE

VOTE: Maestro

Jake was killed because --> ... paper is an asset.
But was one of the paper-gatherers scum? If so, it's Maestro.

[njoseph]

However, his last few posts have given me second thoughts about this.

Scum can always change the dynamic of their posts when necessary

[njoseph]

Uhm, I'm guessing that the deadline is on Tuesdays, guys.
Someone needs to be at L-1 if we are to get to L-0.

VOTE: njoseph

[njoseph]

*Tuesday

[njoseph]

We can have ourselves a njoseph lynch. Let's come together this November.

[njoseph]

People have their chance to unvote for me; who's going to take it?

[njoseph]

:/ I could take my chance if no one else takes theirs:/

[njoseph]

BUT WHAT IF YOU LOSE THE WILL TO LIIIIIVE!

[njoseph]

Here:
[/url]http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2569363[/url]

[njoseph]

Here:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p2569363

[njoseph]

Post #1030 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:24 am
ACTUAL POST in Reboot Mafia:


Tazaro wrote:I give you carte blanche to hammer me, TheLoneWolf. I think I'm better off dead and flipped, and I have to put my attention in my studies, which I'm distracted from.

Actually, I need to take at least a hiatus from mafia.
Vote: Tazaro

[njoseph]

NOW do you believe I am not doing this as scum who HOPES THEY DON'T DIE?

[njoseph]

I take my chance to unvote from njoseph

UNVOTE

[njoseph]

it only applies to Scum.

"Only a Sith lord deals in absolutes"

VOTE: Maestro

[njoseph]

Are you scum?

[njoseph]

I am not.

[njoseph]

Let us see if a lynch occurs this Day

[njoseph]

M_A: Let yourself interpret my putting myself at L-1 as you would.

[njoseph]

= Interpret it as you would.

[njoseph]

I need not vote myself again, so I won't.

[njoseph]

Regardless, I am setting it down in writing that I will not vote for myself again.

[njoseph]

In your own words, why is njoseph's behavior suspicious?

Is this stuff not his words?:

njoseph, you seem to be sporadically changing votes between me and Maestro, and then when you were threatened to be lynched

[njoseph]

Ninja'd: continuation of m_a excerpt:

[...]you put YOURSELF at L-1 to get someone off

[njoseph]

ROBERT, MAVERICK, VOTE FOR SOMEONE.

[njoseph]

Should I just post with my main account user?

[njoseph]

we can't lynch scum if we don't vote enough for it to happen

[njoseph]

rob, mav!

[njoseph]

But mav has NEVER in this game made a non-R.V.S vote.

[njoseph]

Not in this game during Day Two AND not during Day One.
In fact,

VOTE: maverick_alpha

[njoseph]

Now we have a counterwagon that is not on me, who is a townie.

[njoseph]

Now we have a counterwagon that is not on me, who is a townie.

[njoseph]

And is maverick not classic lurker scum?

[njoseph]

Robert, look ...
vote for maverick.

[njoseph]

That would be best i.m.o. if maverick flips scum. I would flip town, though.

[njoseph]

That = pirate mollie's "I will only vote for maverick if shamrock promises to go after njoseph tomorrow[]"

[njoseph]

Would you prefer that I replace out?

[njoseph]

I mean that in all sincerity

[njoseph]

MOD, please replace me. I have been seeing a bad reaction to me this game, and another person can be better for their preferences

[njoseph]

MOD: hope it's not too much of a burden now that I have requested replacement

[njoseph]

plus I /inned into another micro and perhaps should stick to one at a time