Micro 75: Bureaucracy Mafia (Game Over)

[Aj The Epic]

Jake, your logic is very shaky. First off, you basically just said to everyone that you got something important that scum shouldn't know. Well, by that, you just told everyone that you either just learned a power role of someone or you just gained one yourself. Nice job putting a target on yourself...

Secondly, if you feel that people are pressuring you too much, it's because you aren't responding well to pressure. Not responding well to pressure is something that tends to be more of a scum tendency. Scum can't always have an honest answer, so pressure makes them crack.

I personally think you're lying. I think you're trying to use this paper to prove yourself pro-town, and failing. Remember, scum could've gotten their hands on it, as well. Coincidentally, your first post was to grab one of the pieces for yourself. I find it strange that you couldn't post until you had the opportunity to get the paper at exactly the prescribed point.

[Maestro]

1. Because its none of his business, if he is scum it's better if he doesn't know the answer

2. Because I don't respond to bullies.

1. It's Town's business, and I'm asking to see if you're Town. If I'm Town, as I am, it's better if I do know that answer because then I can trust you. Right now, I don't. In fact, few of us do. You Scum, Jake?

2. How am I bullying you? I'm requesting answers and applying pressure to someone I think is as Scummy as you can get on Page 4.
If you think this is bullying you should probably not play Mafia, my friend.

[Maestro]

I'm requesting answers and applying pressure to someone I think is as

antiTown

as you can get on Page 4.

EBWODP, since there is a difference.
You're being exceedingly antiTown.

[Empking]

Vote Count 5

Jake from State Farm (3) - Maestro, Shamrock, Aj The Epic
Breakfast (1) - maverick_alpha
Maestro (1) - pirate mollie
Aj the epic (1) - Robert2424
Shamrock (1) - njoseph

Not voting: Breakfast, Jake from State Farm,

5 to lynch.

[Jake from State Farm]

1. I did no such thing. Nobody knows what my note says, and I'm keeping it that way.

2. I never said anything about people pressuring me, if people want to vote me that's their prerogative. I'm not changing my playstyle because people want me to

3. I don't care if you think I'm lying and if I'm trying to look pro-town I'm doing a shitty job at it don't you think?

Technically my first post was to say "Sup"

My 2nd post was to take the paper, who cares?


P.edit - just cause you say you are town doesn't mean you are. And I don't care if you or anyone else trusts me. No I'm not scum.

The fact you tried to get people to vote me before you even asked me a question about the note, is an example of you bullying, it has nothing to do with your questions on page 4.

[Maestro]

I voted you before I asked you anything about the paper because you were refusing to contribute past rushing in to the thread at the perfect moment to actually grab the paper, which I found antiTown because you refused to contribute to discussion while serving an ulterior motive (e.g. "getting the paper") and are still doing so in actively not contributing to conversation when several of us have asked you to do so. What seemed like your tactical move to make a completely useless post just so you could grab the paper put me off, and since that point you haven't done anything to contribute to the Town or to help us understand why you're playing the way you are.

We're not asking for you to change the normal way you play (checking you for meta right now, by the way) but we

are

asking you to do shit in this game. You haven't so far. If you're saying you're not going to do shit this game and that that behavior is normal for you, I want you gone, yes. But I refuse to be labelled as a bully for wanting you gone if you're not going to do shit in this game when you should want to do shit in this game

AND

I refuse to be labelled as a bully when many people would say you're the one being stubborn, unhelpful, and petty - among other things.

Again I say that everything you've called bullying so far is a normal part of all Mafia games (e.g. applying pressure outside of RVS) so I think you should revisit how you play this game.

[Maestro]

Anybody need meta on Jake from State Farm?

Go check out Micro 33. One of his 2 or 3 currently completed games on-site, where he refuses to give his past alts (even though he admits being "on and off site for the past few years") and where he is just as unhelpful as he is being here. He flipped Scum. Also check out Disney Villains in the Theme Park, where he was Doctor Facilier (a Town Cop) and at least seemed like he was trying to contribute and Scumhunt - he makes similar comments about "having his own standards" etc. but I think I see a definite difference in play between the two situations. His stubbornness definitely does not seem to be a tell, but overall his unwillingness to contribute is.

Can you give us a good reason why you're refusing to contribute other than you don't have much to say?
At this point you're taking up the day and if you don't want to be lynched I suggest you tell us why so we can move on if we have to.

In the meantime where is my breakfast?
...and where is that lurker Breakfast?

[Jake from State Farm]

yes you voted me because I took a paper but you told someone else to vote me again because you wanted to pressure me to answer the question you were going to ask me. How is that not an attempt at bullying?

definition of bullying -

Use superior strength or

influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.

you don't see the similarity? I certainly do.

Can you give us a good reason why you're refusing to contribute other than you don't have much to say?

I'm not refusing to contribute. I don't have anything to say. Questions that I want to ask have either been asked by me or by somebody else. Things I am suspicious of I have put in my handy dandy notebook to go back over once I get to a computer and do a full re-read. Right now I am kind of stuck because nobody is sticking out to me. i don't even have a single town read yet.

[Maestro]

Again I say that everything you've called bullying so far is a normal part of all Mafia games (e.g. applying pressure outside of RVS) so I think you should revisit how you play this game.

[pirate mollie]

1. Because its none of his business, if he is scum it's better if he doesn't know the answer

2.

Because I don't respond to bullies

.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

calling maestro a "bully". maestro is about the most benign player on here.

I will be helpful eventually, it's too early in the game.

it is never too early in the game to be helpful and you just got a bit piece of something so that could be super helpful to town right now.

you do get that this is a team-based game, right?

your play is anti-town ---------> yes I have a problem with it and yes I am asking you to play in a more protown fashion. if you don't you will get lynched and it will suck if you do turn out to be town cos you are actively working against your team.

what I find interesting is that so far you don't seem to think that you will attract a nk with the added info that you have.

[Jake from State Farm]

Again I say that everything you've called bullying so far is a normal part of all Mafia games (e.g. applying pressure outside of RVS) so I think you should revisit how you play this game.

but you felt the need to do it before you even asked the question. The moment you did that was the moment I made the decision to not answer you. You made a move and it backfired. I don't back down to bullying and I don't back down to pressure.

p.edit

pirate - your definition of helpful and mine are 2 different things. I don't need to be all WOO HOO LET'S BE HELPFUL in order to catch scum,

i respect your opinion of my play, but I disagree with you.

not sure why you think that but I know I am at risk of being NK'd, I don't think i ever implied that I wasn't at risk.

[njoseph]

What's the big deal? Maestro and Jake both picked up papers and we don't know what they are? Are they both scum? If not, then let's pretend the paper-picking did not happen and scum hunt.

[pirate mollie]

p.edit

pirate - your definition of helpful and mine are 2 different things. I don't need to be all WOO HOO LET'S BE HELPFUL in order to catch scum,

yabbut you do not "catch" scum on your own unless you are a vig. and even then you should still try to play protown in the game thread and work with your team.

i respect your opinion of my play, but I disagree with you.

do you mean to tell me that you think that what you are doing is protown?

not sure why you think that but I know I am at risk of being NK'd, I don't think i ever implied that I wasn't at risk.

well if you thought you were at risk then you would wanting to get all of your thoughts out there and provide as much info for your team as possible and I am not seeing that. you are withholding info and that is generally considered anti town cos once you die all the info have dies with you.

town> town motivated posts > actively working towards a town win condition

I am not seeing the above here and I am trying to determine if you are scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

actually I can catch scum all by myself, I just can't get them lynched without help. Disney mafia was a good example of that. I named 2 people I was suspicious of, and they both were scum. Sure the SK killed me N1 because I wasn't posting very much but the bottom line is I was able to use my ability to analyze and decipher 2 scum.

The bottom line is there isn't anything in the first 4 pages that give me a solid scum read on anyone. There are people I am suspicious of, but I want to do a full re-read first and can't do that until at least tomorrow when my new laptop screen arrives. I don't do full in depth posting from my phone.

This day phase is still early, we have 1 player who hasn't posted yet and another who has only posted an RVS. I will get my reads out on my own time table. But as I have said over and over again, there is nothing posted in the 4 pages that I feel needs commenting on, thus I have nothing to say.

[Aj The Epic]

What's the big deal? Maestro and Jake both picked up papers and we don't know what they are? Are they both scum? If not, then let's pretend the paper-picking did not happen and scum hunt.

Nice of you to come in and try to make everyone completely disregard Jake's actions.

[Maestro]

^ This is the kind of contribution I was looking, at minimum.
Just be clearer next time, rather than saying "stuff", Jake.

Jesus...

Also, you should give me your paper tonight if you're Town.
I'll give it back, I just want to know what it says.

P-Edit @AJ: I was going to say something about that.
@Joe: Contribute real content or don't gripe about the path the game takes.

[njoseph]

All I see is two people whose paper's contents are not being revealed; that goes for both Jake AND Maestro; and Jake's recent activity's being explanations that are only natural because of being questioned apparently because of being more EXPLICIT about not revealing stuff than Maestro.

[njoseph]

And it's only natural that scum hunting is at a trough due to a disproportionate focus on somebody being non-disclosing of the paper.

[Shamrock]

Someone needs to put Jake at L-1

[njoseph]

^ This is the kind of contribution I was looking, at minimum.
Just be clearer next time, rather than saying "stuff", Jake.

Jesus...

Also, you should give me your paper tonight if you're Town.
I'll give it back, I just want to know what it says.

P-Edit @AJ: I was going to say something about that.
@Joe: Contribute real content or don't gripe about the path the game takes.

How would you know that you can just be GIVEN a paper by someone else?

[njoseph]

Someone needs to put Jake at L-1

The fact that YOU posted this makes me think it's information that should not be disclosed lest manipulation.

[Maestro]

Because I have a paper and I was told I could give it to somebody during the Night.

[Maestro]

^ That was to Joe, and I find it very interesting that you're only now appearing while you were quick to wait out the little discussion we were having earlier.
Try to stay by the sidelines until we called you out, eh?

[Maestro]

All I see is two people whose paper's contents are not being revealed; that goes for both Jake AND Maestro; and Jake's recent activity's being explanations that are only natural because of being questioned apparently because of being more EXPLICIT about not revealing stuff than Maestro.

Also rephrase this, it's practically gobbledyguk.

[njoseph]

Maestro/maverick_alpha, is there a Reason you want the paper or do you just like goodies?

Is the Reason you asked this question that --> putting accusatory pressure on some of the nondisclosers was your next step?