Micro 70 ~ Mafia in Triplicate (Game Over!)

[Shamrock]

Why would you link a song other than the Styx song to the text "Come sail away"?

VOTE: Empire

[Shamrock]

Shmugen, if Empire is your top scumread why have you ignored all of his posts since #25-26?

Apologies to all that my participation is going to be not up to my normal standards. RL has hit me especially hard all of a sudden (not storm-related).

I will analyze the current discussions when I can focus more properly, but I'd also like to say that I am very not happy with the lack of participation from Xalxe and Shamrock, especially given activity elsewhere. I've seen scum win several Micro games by lurking so I'm going to be particularly hard on lurkers (without, hopefully, sounding hypocritical). So I think my vote is good where it is.

Are you seriously complaining about lack of content in a totally contentless post?

[Shamrock]

UNVOTE: Empire
VOTE: Shmugen

[Shamrock]

Oh, come on, there was plenty of stuff to talk about in Empire's posts if you already thought he was scummy - his thoughts on NS's reaction, his thoughts on F-16, his vague comments about saulres. Why wait until now to engage in discussion with your top scumread?

[Shamrock]

Wha... the only person voting Empire is Shmugen...

[Shamrock]

UNVOTE: Empire
VOTE: Shmugen

and me and Shmugen were the only ones voting him before I switched my vote...

whatever it doesn't matter I guess

[Shamrock]

I'm more inclined to think Xaxle is scum.

Why?

[Shamrock]

I have Opinions but I wanna see how he responds to your post first.

[Shamrock]

How is F-16 scum?

[Shamrock]

Wow, that's actually imrpessive that you would post that within 4 minutes of my checking the thread.

Yes? Can I help you?

[Shamrock]

I don't know. I think saulres is kind of scummy for a really stupid push on Xalxe -- but I'm actually quite drunk right now, and you should be impressed with me for correcting all the typos I made except for "imrpessive". I haven't actually looked at anyone in particular yet to determine who is scumbuddies and such, and that's sort of premature on D1, isn't it.

What is "where"?

[Shamrock]

So... I don't actually remember what I meant to say about Konowa at this point.

Not really premature in a 9p White Flag game, no.

Hmm, personally I've never seen scumteam speculation lead anywhere productive on D1 of anything other than a vengeful, but then I've never played a white flag game before.

I still don't like saulres trying to seriously push Xalxe's lurking as a scum tactic.

UNVOTE: Shmugen
VOTE: saulres

I really feel sort of lost by this game.

[Shamrock]

Tierce, I don't remember Xalxe flaking from your game, but I do remember him flaking from one of mine when he was town.

Not that that means he's town this time

, though.

Next. I've seen a lot of comments in this game that Shmugen always appears to be scum, even when he's not,

but that doesn't mean he's not scum this time.

I don't like this at all. It looks like you're intentionally disregarding evidence you ought to be taking into account because you just particularly want to push cases on these players.

I mean, you're not wrong. They could be scum. But I really dislike the way you point out that this information exists and is potentially valuable, but then fail to integrate it into the conclusions you draw in any substantial manner.

[Shamrock]

Especially because this is meta-evidence, and you're using meta-evidence to justify lurkers being dangerous in micros, but you're not willing to take meta-evidence into account when it pushes against the argument you've decided on...?

[Shamrock]

Um... I

did

integrate it. It was subtler with Xalxe (I stopped voting him but didn't say that meant I thought he was town), but I thought quite clear with Shmugen ("Just because he's always called scum, I'm not going to let that dissuade me from thinking he could actually

be

scum in this game", followed by me voting him).

It's more the way you dismissed it completely like you weren't at all interested in considering any kind of evidence for his being town.

Oh look, my scumread puts me at L-1 without mentioning it. Why am I not surprised?

Really? =/

Shamrock I read as town for 54 and 55. By that time I was convinced that Shmugen was scum and I didn't see his question or his vote as coming from a scumbuddy.

By the top of page 3, you were so convinced that Shmugen was scum that you were willing to start drawing conclusions about other people's alignment based on their interactions with him? This seems like a bit of a stretch.

[Shamrock]

By the top of page 3, you were so convinced that Shmugen was scum that you were willing to start drawing conclusions about other people's alignment based on their interactions with him? This seems like a bit of a stretch.

Do you agree or disagree with this quote

[Shamrock]

F-16, I honestly have no idea what I originally meant to say about Konowa. I looked over the exchange again and got no distinct impressions, so... yeah.

[Shamrock]

Why are you, Nobody Special, voting saulres?

F-16, two things:
The lack of a counterwagon isn't really notable given that Empire is V/LA, Konowa is spam prod-dodging, Nobody Special is active lurking, and Xalxe has been a nonentity all game;
Even supposing there is scum on the wagon, there probably isn't a higher probability of hitting scum by picking from among the wagon relative to picking among the general population, given that this setup is 3:6.

[Shamrock]

So... your read on Shmugen is so strong that you're drawing associational tells based on his presumed scumflip, and you've given no indication of having disavowed that read... yet now you're switching your vote?

[Shamrock]

Yes, by the time I got there I felt he was scum. But it was more than that. In 54 you questioned him, and questioned me. But then you didn't place a vote until the next post. That felt like town saying "You know, this bothered me enough that I think it's worth putting a vote on that guy." If you were scum, no matter what Shmugen's alignment was, when you crafted 54 you would have intended to vote at that time and you would've put the vote in there in the first place.

This is pretty weak stuff. I'd call it "bush league" if I were trying to suck up to Tierce.

It's also different reasoning than what you used to explain your mystery read on me earlier.

Your play literally makes no sense to me if you are town.

[Shamrock]

That's not the point I was trying to make. Given the strength of your professed Shmugen read, I don't understand your votehop to NS.

[Shamrock]

UNVOTE: saulres

I don't like this as much anymore.

I'll decide what to do with my vote later. Ideally once the other half of this game shows up...

[Shamrock]

Not that I don't agree with this, but can we please wait for Xalxe and Empire to do something useful?

[Shamrock]

Nonsensical claim is nonsensical, but wait for Xalxe to post before hammering.

[Shamrock]

... Huh.

So, I don't see how Nobody Special's claim makes any more sense in this change-up than it did before.

Especially given that it's clearly not what "Rarefaction" was referring to.

[Shamrock]

Actually, what would you guys say to massclaiming?

[Shamrock]

@Mod: Were the townies in each "cell" picked randomly?

pedit: If you're talking to me, you misread, I was saying it makes less sense.

[Shamrock]

Given the setup of this game, if somehow you are town, saulres should just claim scum and allow himself to be reversed by you.

I mean, you're not town, because your role makes no sense, but.

[Shamrock]

Oh, and yeah, I'm okay with having me and saulres claim first.

[Shamrock]

Oh... for some reason I thought my cell was you/me/NS. That's why I said we should claim. Oops.

In that case, obviously Shmugen should claim scum. (And it's hardly playing against your wincon to get your wincon changed to something more favorable, is it?)

[Shamrock]

I am also VT.

Is there any particular reason to hold off on lynching NS? His claim makes even less sense now than it did before, and it didn't make very much sense before.

I mean, I can wait until the rest of the town says hi. But I don't see my mind changing.

[Shamrock]

Sure, sure.

the director can go next when he shows up.

[Shamrock]

@NS

, no response to me calling our your claim based on you providing a definition of Rarefaction that doesn't jive with what we now know it to be?

I have no response. I know what my Role PM says (and what it

doesn't

say) and I really can't offer anything else. It's weird, and I see the position you guys are taking with it, but what else can I do?

So can I interpret the fact that you haven't used it yet as a scum claim?

[Shamrock]

Don't really see any reason to drag out the NS lynch - came into this thread intending to vote, actually, but I guess I can wait a little while.

[Shamrock]

Idk you're a pretty strong townread for me too (although Empire could still be scum, the Empire/Konowa pool is the one I'm the least certain of)

[Shamrock]

klezzgo

VOTE: NS

[Shamrock]

... You want a prod on the guy you replaced?

[Shamrock]

Okay, well, if you take a look at the activity overview, he's the only one in prod range.

So how about you give us some scintillating content instead?

[Shamrock]

Nah we good

[Shamrock]

Just off the top of my head I tend to agree with Tierce's logic, however I will go back through a few things and see if my intuition holds up later.

[Shamrock]

Yeah. I really like the concept of this game, but I think one problem with the way the mechanic was used in this game was that we all decided on a NS lynch, and then when it went into Rarefaction... well, we didn't want NS to be lynched any less than we already did, so that was one of the cells basically solved in advance.

However, are you accepting /pre-ins for the open version of this? >_>

[Shamrock]

saul, your #226 and #229 just made my town sensors go beep boop beep boop. I don't know, I guess the emotion just came off as very legitimate.