Micro 121: SS9 (Game over!)

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: Lincolm

Why Kmd?

[Cheery Dog]

Lincolm, aware of the fact that his post is similar to Kmd's, knows he has to make his different to avoid suspicion; he does this by adding a colon to his vote with a space between it and the word 'vote'-

What does that make my use of the vote tags to do the exact thing?

[Cheery Dog]

Somehow I read this message, "Wicked's post #9 not a joke"... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Were you not in a game where I've said I take everything seriously? I have no sense of humour when reading other people's game posts.

anyway I heard you were on L-1, and I feel something needs to do somebody about that.
VOTE: Lincolm

[Cheery Dog]

Somebody needs to do something, the reverse I just posted just reads wrong. (though I guess it's better? than the something -- something I had, but maybe not)

p-edit, congrats in reacting in a way which makes me want to leave my vote there.

[Cheery Dog]

and Wisdom's reaction to me calling Lincolm's reaction bad is even worse.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wisdom

I didn't actually expect anything from the fakehammer since we're only two pages in, I probably should have waited longer before doing it.

[Cheery Dog]

Elaborate on what is wrong with my reaction, Cheery.

It's bad because I know what this setup is, and fake hammers aren't protown tools on page 2. (and I don't even know if they are actually that useful later in the game either)

[Cheery Dog]

Then, why did you find Lincolm scummy for pointing it out?

Because it was a poorly thought out test and I wanted him to do something alone the lines of "haha you're dead now"; the reaction just made me not want to remove the vote, not neccessary have him be scum. (Although I didn't actually expect that given )

Also, I take it you just don't agree with me that it was a protown tool. How does that make me scum?

Because as I read it, you only added it after my p-edit.

@lincolm, ifyou don't think I'm town, why aren't you voting me instead of the person you would (or not if you're actually scum) know is town?

[Cheery Dog]

Well I didn't get to post before you posted, did I?

You still complained about me not speaking English because I changed the wrong something in my post.

[Cheery Dog]

That was in the same post. My comment on your pedit was not a pedit.

My p-edit was on a post I was trying to do a edit with a double post with, which was correcting my English fail.

[Cheery Dog]

The "english please" remark was about the post that you tried to correct your first fail. Specifically, about

Somebody needs to do something, the reverse I just posted just reads wrong.

(though I guess it's better? than the something -- something I had, but maybe not)

p-edit, congrats in reacting in a way which makes me want to leave my vote there.

which was just above your pedit.

I originally typed in 43, something needs to do something, and changed the wrong something to somebody. If I write stuff it brackets it's probably unneeded information anyway

[Cheery Dog]

Yeah, my point is, my "english please" remark and my comment about your pedit came after your post. I didn't get to post after Lincolm's reaction and before yours.

Well I still dislike people agreeing with me about stuff that I'm not even that sure about when I post.

[Cheery Dog]

Maybe, maybe not. Let see my flip today, shall we?

Let's at least wait until everyone has posted.

[Cheery Dog]

Reasons will come (possibly in the other direction) as the game progresses.

[Cheery Dog]

Disliking somebody = Thinking somebody's scum?

Nah Wisdom's cool, I just find it when I'm saying stuff I only half support and the next post is someone agreeing with me, I just find it scummy.

I would probably stop saying stuff I only half support, but the part of me that doesn't support what I write gets to my brain before my fingers have moved to the Submit button.

[Cheery Dog]

I need to check Cheery's meta re: the first line of post 43.

If I recall correctly, the only time I've talked about me taking stuff seriously before was actually in a scum game. (and noone in this game was in that game), it's a fairly pointless meta search for one thing. (unless you're looking for me taking jokes seriously - that happens everywhere and is a feature of my personally and nothing to do with mafia games)

[Cheery Dog]

That's why kmd's plan is needed as the "second lynch".

According to the post in open setup reviews before this game started, town has a 45% EV rating by following that.

[Cheery Dog]

So you messed the game up?

bad slime.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery Dog- You say Wisdom is suspicious for agreeing with a point that you only half support. Can you explain why that is? You and Wisdom had a conversation about it on page 3, but I did not understand your arguments.

I find eagerness to give points against someone to be a scumtell, and when someone gives a half-good reason for someone else to be scum, and then someone agrees with them on it without really going further into why, I find that the second person is just joining in to set tempers aflare with possibly two townies.

My reaction call on Lincolm about the fakehammer was weak, though non-normal reactions about saying that's not a hammer would probably come from the people that hadn't posted yet, but I probably wouldn't have got anything from that.

[Cheery Dog]

Why it is anti-town? If I'm town and the hammer town, it isn't.

It's not anti town for town you to have another town killed?

Having dead town is as anti-town as you can get.

[Cheery Dog]

Hmm. I like the last post by Huntress.

That's good to know I guess, but I don't really like the need for you to have said this.
UNVOTE: VOTE: mala

@wisdom/lincolm the easy way to fix those issues is to have the kammerer decided before deadline.
Today we have it extra easy because if a goon does either of those things, we can freely lynch them tomorrow.

If a refusal to hammer happens at any time, I think the best option is to reverse the lychees and hammerers around. If both refuse them we've probably caught two mafia, and can freely be killed.

I also want to check something.

@mod, should plurality lynches come into play on a super saint, who is killed?

[Cheery Dog]

Wait I should read my own role more than just the name if it.

[Cheery Dog]

Because Wisdom is town and his wagon was too large and that I feel there were already enough votes not in action that I needed to move to someone else. (and that one post was a third of your posts at the time)

[Cheery Dog]

If you thought Wisdom is town, then why did it take you so long to get off his wagon? What changed your mind about him?

Right, okay, I'm starting to actually wonder if you are voting people because you feel they are scum or you are just voting because you need to just "switch".

Okay.. So what was your read on me

before

that post?

To see if he did actually do anything else that may have made my stay on the wagon a better option.

Both.

Null.

[Cheery Dog]

Wait I should read my own role more than just the name if it.

Claim harder, bro.

scum?

[Cheery Dog]

@mod, should plurality lynches come into play on a super saint, who is killed?

The most recent person to vote for them who is still voting for them would be killed.

I realise what I actually meant to ask now, there is something in that line that still confuses me

If the last vote cast on a lynch wagon is removed before deadline, and that lynch still goes due to plurality, does it still count as the last vote before the super-saint was lynched?

[Cheery Dog]

I'm just changing it to want I meant to ask in the first place.

(I'm going to stop asking questions that are already answered, obviously I still don't know the setup well enough.

[Cheery Dog]

Slimer possibly, but not sure at the moment, mala is also a possibility as such I am voting her current.

Piety sure, you, lincolm and blueberry are town though.

I'm settling for null reads because scum reads haven't got past that stage yet. I think it's likely scum had ben discussing stratified for themselves in the scum qt instead of general strategizing with the town at the start of the game.

[Cheery Dog]

Don't you think some of the scum would try to participate in town's strategizing regardless?

All depends on who actually is scum and how much you're been talking. I find lincolm and you town because of your large amount of early game posting, blueberry slightly less so, but his opinion on my post about not having correctly read the one thing I'm meant to know is about is just really town.

[Cheery Dog]

If Mafia are able to manipulate us into killing ourselves, good on them, there's nothing we can do to stop them.

[Cheery Dog]

Do you think you'll be manipulated without following the plan?
What is the difference and what causes the difference in these two manipulations?

[Cheery Dog]

and if we don't have the hammerer directed, it's almost guarateed to be town and therefore also a loss, without the process of getting a certain person to hammer and therefore we don't have the new interaction.

It doesn't actually matter in LYLO, if we're lynching a town member we're practically already lost no matter who hammers.

[Cheery Dog]

Mafia just won't quickhammer there if left to their own devices.
Since all town are super-saints, they know that will happen.
(going to be interesting what happens should we get to 3p LYLO)

[Cheery Dog]

Mafia just won't quickhammer there if left to their own devices.

I know the mafia won't quickhammer, also town. The reverse of lynchee and hammeree to anticipate this. Somehow the last thing mafia will do, make the pairing town - town.
(Basically what I'm afraid is 7P and 5P LyLo. You mention it.)

If town isn't active in it, it may not even be mafia that makes the pairings.

[Cheery Dog]

Maybe. I think the mafias will more aggressive make those pairings.

Then after we're decided we ditch the whole thing and lynch the person pushing a pairing the hardest.

[Cheery Dog]

I think you're overly paranoid in the first place.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't want either Lincolm or Wisdom hammering/lynched, I still have town reads on the pair of them. With Wisdom being the stronger of them, but they're still there.
I also think that kmd is also probably town.

And slimer is reading gutscum, but I'm not actually sure of that.

So can whichever of you players are actually scum post more in the thread so I can intergate you more. kkthxbai.

[Cheery Dog]

Those flips make me want to reverse my read on kmd.

I don't know why any of you wanted to lynch Wisdom
But since it got scum dead, I can't really complain.

[Cheery Dog]

Shit, called my bluff xD

No need in wasting a kill though.

This was apart of our plan anyway.

Gg

Vote: Wisdom[/vote]

See you guys in the aftergame

This post, I feel it's possibly telling me kmd/Lincolm as his scum partners.
I feel I should therefore do this.

VOTE: Kmd

[Cheery Dog]

No, it tellis us that it was a part of your plan for you to "use" it.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

Wait I planned for my partner to suicide by hammering my biggest town read so I could scuse kmd on wanting a scum member (why I just placed lincolm there) to hammer the wagon before the town on it were able to work out that wisdom was obvtown?
Which also all happened during early morning hours in my timezone (meaning I wasn't online)

[Cheery Dog]

Actually it wasn't that early when the hammer happened as it was approximately the time I woke up, but I didn't come onto the site until after the hammer went. (i think it was locked at the time)

[Cheery Dog]

Oh and cheery is the most likely player to be town in the game, but that doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. So don't listen to him but don't lynch him or let him hammer.

That sounds way too much like my playstyle.
UNVOTE:
I don't want a blueberry hammer.

[Cheery Dog]

Currently noone, I'm not convinced enough about any of my reads to see them lynched this early into day 2

[Cheery Dog]

My reading of slimmer's death post related to me thinking scum wanted to sacrifice one of themselves to lower townie input.
Also stems from this post by kmd)

I wanna do it, but I kinda wanna see if lincolm or slimer would be willing to. I'll wait and see a post from them. If they don't hammer, I will. No one unvote.

What it actually means is probably in the scum qt - but any plan from scum would also have an inthread presence at some stage.

And back to current topic
Well I don't as he is one of my town reads.

[Cheery Dog]

no slimer outed you by calling it a plan.

[Cheery Dog]

I'd be okay with that, but still not this early into day 2.

[Cheery Dog]

Why would scum deliberately sacrifice one of their own to lower townie input when having a townie hammer would lower that input even more? I don't get what you mean by that.

Lowering townie input wouldn't be the only reason for doing it. It may also be a sacrifice (should Lincolm be town) to prove that the plan 'works'.

Were there any other players actually wanting Wisdom hammered then, and willing to do it themselves? I think it was Mala/myself off the wagon at the time of Wisdom's selfvote plus the three I'm thinking about possibly being the team, and assuming we're both town, I don't think either of us were about to hammer Wisdom, so that wouldn't have worked very well (though I don't know about Mala).
Maybe one of you others on the wagon, but I don't know.

[Cheery Dog]

I just found that maybe scums try to accuse me and Kmd each other. I like to see from different view.

Do you think I'm scum for connecting you two together in that fashion?

[Cheery Dog]

ok
VOTE: Blueberry

[Cheery Dog]

I'll do it, because I don't actually know why my vote is there in the first place.
UNVOTE:

[Cheery Dog]

When everyone else wants more content from some players who are currently not present, yes.

[Cheery Dog]

This game means we don't even get any confirmed town from not lynching, the previous days both ended to fast, and I don't know why we were all so eager to lynch people.

I'm thinking wicked for idk what reason atm, but stupid quick lynches

[Cheery Dog]

Should I be worried that I saw that be done in the last game I played with you where you were scum?

Because I am. Also I have no clue since Lincolm is actually the only one I remember doing anything this game.

[Cheery Dog]

I'd rather have two actual suspects to be lynchee and hammeree because if ones wrong we still have a chance. As such I currently think Huntress/Wicked should be the pair.

[Cheery Dog]

Think of it as if you are lynched - if we go your approach of lynching you because you're town, then we shouldn't lynch you at all. If we as a whole decide someone is town, they shouldn't be involved as either lynchee or hammerer, rather just a voice on the sideline. Think of yourself as a treestump.

[Cheery Dog]

Meaning you still suspect Mala? Well, I can't say anything about it. But, if we have MyLo for this setup, we have more choices to pick, meaning possibility (if random) to hit scum is decrease.

Yes, and I'm not as suspicious of you, you're just too far out there with your own thoughts to be scum.
Therefore PoE tells me scum is in Huntress/Mala/Wicked, and we should lynch/hammer from them.
If we get a scum we do the same thing tomorrow.

If we are all confident in two town reads and they're correct, town wins.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery Dog and Lincolm- Why do you think I'm mafia?

Because I haven't established you as town, and since we're in LYLO, I feel it either I should have if you are town or you are actually mafia.

and since I am confident in Lincolm town,
VOTE: Huntress

[Cheery Dog]

@Huntress: CD already destroyed what I was going to do with those results. So they are useless for me now. What bothers me a bit about doing that is it throws scum off guard the two games I seen it used, but he destroyed rather than keeping it quiet. Only problem is that he brought it up as a valid caution because it was used in a scum game of mine.

So I'm kinda torn between the motive of why he destroyed it. >.>

I don't think it actually helped at all, seeing as scum won, it may have been different had I been alive.
but how is it actually destroyed by just mentioning it exists?

I voted because I realised that if I have enough faith in my town reads (and since the other two major ones I had have flipped town) I believe I do and therefore can beak the setup.

[Cheery Dog]

If we are all confident in

two

one

town read

s

and they're correct, town wins.

Fixed. If I have a correct understanding of the setup, then a three player LyLo scenario would allow for two kills- the lynch and the supersaint's kill, leaving one player in the game.

I'd rather have two to give better protection from a double townie death. If we get to 3P LYLO, then yes only 1 is required, but two is better for when we lynch correctly. (which I do want to do)

[Cheery Dog]

This has stalled too much. I guess I should possibly attempt a reread as well to make sure I'm not missing anything that could mean lincolm scum, but from what I recall there's too much town headed paranoia.

[Cheery Dog]

I still think it's most likely wicked/huntress.

But I'm also lazy and aren't bothering to reread and just sticking with Lincolm being town meaning the game is broken, but I seriously dislike the fact he is still selfvoting.

[Cheery Dog]

You know CD. Explain to me why you either have a town read on me or a null-leaning town on me?

I don't, I have higher scummy reads on them.

[Cheery Dog]

My town reads weren't solely off activity levels, they helped yes, but there were other reasons.
That's just what I read slimer's final post, it was obviously wrong since kmd flipped town, but at the time I felt that was possibly the case.
I unvoted kmd because I wasn't confident enough that I wanted him hammered there and then, my read never actually deceased our raised during that time.

Mala posted some logic that seemed town between 406 and 412. I am still believing the remaining scum have ben more using their day talk rather that being completely open in thread.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm becoming more confident in my Cheery Dog scum read (and slightly less confident in my Huntress scum read). So much in fact that I'm actually going to

Vote: Cheery Dog

partially for post 443.

Originally, when asked to explain his scumreads on Huntress and I, Cheery Dog justifies it by saying he has no reasons for suspecting us, but he simply hasn't established us as town. Yet, later, Malakittens asks him about his reads and he responds with this;

You know CD. Explain to me why you either have a town read on me or a null-leaning town on me?

I don't, I have higher scummy reads on them.

This is extremely contradictory and shows that Cheery Dog really just doesn't want to explain any of his reads. Cheery Dog called Huntress and I mafia solely because Lincolm and Malakittens seemed more townish, but when asked to explain the townreads, he says he reached the conclusion Malakittens was town because Huntress and I appear more suspicious. That's circular reasoning.

Another thing I've noticed is that he's basically coasted through this day with his vote on Huntress. It looks like bussing, but I also think the vote looks bad regardless of Huntress's allignment. Day 3 started, CD expressed suspicion of just me, later he expresses belief in a huntress/wicked scum pair, and then he votes for Huntress rather than me. It seems unnatural and he hasn't even asked any questions or done anything to strengthen his reads despite no reasoning being given. He's shown no townish interest.

I figured what needed to be happening for town to still win, and choose huntress as I felt out of the three of mala/you/her that it was most likely top be easier to work how I think today and tomorrow need to go in order for town to win.

I've explained why I have Lincolm as town currently haven't I, even if it is only generalised, it's still all I believe I need for town (aka my team) to win.

Mala came in with contributions during those posts and as they made sense, you and huntress end up as the scumteam, though it is possible I'm also bias because Mala was reading me town which is correct whereas you other two have been attacking for what whatever reasons. and the fact I'm confident in my Lincolm read means I've probably not going to bother rereading the thread at all and just stick with what I believe will win the game for town.

[Cheery Dog]

406 and 412 were my posts, your posts between those seemed slightly town. (in that you had done it again elsewhere, which I hadn't taken into consideration (as I didn't know about that) when I 'ruined' your 405)

[Cheery Dog]

Well looking back now, it was the 407, 408 & 410 were both completely null.

[Cheery Dog]

So your "higher scummy reads" didn't actually exist?

Mala had gained some town points - therefore a lesser scumread, which means you are higher.

How do activity levels help? What are you comparing them with? And what other reasons?

Can I have an answer to the last two questions in post 444 please.

I'm comparing the activity levels to what I think scum with daytalk would be doing. Or at least what I would probably be doing if I were scum with daytalk.

Lincolm is actually failing it now with his lack of activity, but I also know he is also being inactive elsewhere on the site. I don't know about any of you others, or why you're increasing your tempo only now when there's a chance you'll get a Cheery-mislynch happening.

If I'm to die today, I'd like to be dead by pluralrity at deadline rather than any hammers, unless Lincolm or Mala are scum, in which case go ahead and hammer me please

.

Looking at where Lincolm asked if I were still supecting Mala, and the rest of his post it looks like he was still trying to avoid MYLO (also the fact he still apparently thinks he is a good lynch for today) I personally would actually rather have a scum lynched today and go to MYLO rather than do whatever is needed to not me lynched/have scum hammer me in LYLO. I see both options as plausible and am willing to take a risk to either by getting a suspect to hammer another.

[Cheery Dog]

@mala I'm having some if those same thoughts regarding lincoln, but this setup makes me feel they're invalid.

Does scum him want us to be in mylo that much?

[Cheery Dog]

Wicked and mala expressed slight suspicion themselves of huntress, whereas huntress didn't express suspicion of either of to the other two, therefore it would be more likely to have my plan agreed with it we lynched huntress first - I was going for speed over smarts.

I add useless information that doesn't need said in brackets everywhere - that's just my internet personally.

I repeat, I don't have a titan read on mala - a few towny vibes that don't change the overall read except to push it slightly higher on the town side I didn't feel were needed to be said.

[Cheery Dog]

Also, if this is just your internet personality, then why do you continue making strange comments like this? You do this twice in your post 456;

Do you even understand what I said?
It may not all be in brackets - but it's still my persona on the internet.

This is relevant to the points in my post 447. We're in a LyLo situation, we had just lynched/killed two town-aligned players, and you admitted you were uncertain about your reads. You explained your townread on Lincolm, yet you quickly jumped to the conclusion that Huntress and I were mafia based on "a few towny vibes" from Malakittens and you voted Huntress without giving/having any points against her. The problem with this is that you restricted your town read on Malakittens to being based on two of her posts at the start of day 3. It's hard to believe you are town because of this. What about days 1 and 2 or the rest of day 3? And how are you certain enough to vote with such little justification?

I'm feeling even more comfortable with this vote.

Which is why I didn't vote then. I then thought slightly more and came up with what I think is a guaranteed plan for a town win when I did vote - not much time or posts had actually passed within those two thoughts which turned into my vote, I hadn't actually called you the scumteam then anyway - just too suspects and therefore my preferred lynchee hammerer pair.
I'm also fine with subituting one of you with Mala.

[Cheery Dog]

If you can show me an instance in the past where you, as town, made a comment like that, then I will probably retract this point.

Practically any past game of mine where I'm been under pressure - though since that list only contains one scum game where I never actually went under pressure as such, and I don't think I was actually pressured much that game. (I also think the best recent example of me doing this type of thing is with an alt which will remain to be guessed at incase I want to use it again).
I believe a reason one in which I said the same style of thing (or at least what Huntress, I think it was, attacked me on Day 2) when the 2nd highest suspect on the players in that games lists - and as such under some pressure located in this game

But seriously there's at least 1 in 10 of posts which contain pointless stuff that doesn't help anyone progress. I'm aware it's there, but don't think about it until after I press the submit button.

I'm sure if you wanted you could find actual stuff I've said this game which is scummy rather than just attacking how I overexplain the obviousness into some things.

@Lincolm, now that you've unvoted yourself, even if Huntress unvoted me, she'd still be dead at deadline. (as my vote on her is now the oldest active)

[Cheery Dog]

In the faint hope that how I think this day should actually be going may happen.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wicked

[Cheery Dog]

5 minutes for you to decide whther you're dooming huntress and me or not. (first to reach the higher number of votes)

I probably should have actually moved my vote yesterday, but eh.

[Cheery Dog]

Well if it counts while possibly being 10 seconds late, you're dead now.

[Cheery Dog]

See I didn't need real reasons, though scum got unlucky that mala's hammer was less than a monitor late.

[Cheery Dog]

I think my big mistake was not unvoting at the end of Day three. That made it rather obvious that Wicked was my partner. But I fail at last minute decisions and was still hoping we could finish the game there and then. In retrospect I should have bussed Wicked earlier but it didn't seem the way to go at the time. I couldn't use the PoE arguement as that would mean calling Cheery or Lincolm town and there were already too many doing that, and any other arguement would have looked like a bad reaction to his case on me as he actually looked very town to me.

I think you just really needed Mala to have hammered me, I don't think there was actually that much else of an option for you, because Wicked would have ended up with the plurality lynch of me killing him.

I would have moved my vote back onto you had you moved off me when I came back and posted some more. - I was actually checking for that when I did come back on close to deadline.

[Cheery Dog]

Reading the scum QT, gave me an idea that supersaints shouldn't work in 3p LYLO, like in Vengeful Mafia.

Also they're right that I hadn't thought about forcing someone to self hammer in MYLO, I don't know if that would have changed had we reached MYLO though.