Micro 151: Mafia in New-Newbie Land (Game over!)

[Wisdom]

VOTE: elvis
omgus

[Wisdom]

[Wisdom]

elvis why did you just copy Mr E Roll's #17?

[Wisdom]

Yup, and?

[Wisdom]

Yes

[Wisdom]

According to what he himself said elsewhere, he drastically changes his playstyle in every game.

[Wisdom]

Do you believe everyone thinks and acts the same?

[Wisdom]

Good.

[Wisdom]

Good town or good scum?

[Wisdom]

So you think I am scum?

[Wisdom]

Do you realise you ruined your planned reaction test by announcing it?

[Wisdom]

Mhm.

[Wisdom]

See? It's hard to make that believable now.

[Wisdom]

One reason?

[Wisdom]

Not seeing it, 'jiffy.

[Wisdom]

mothrax is town.
Majiffy, find someone else to push because I'm not flowcharting you on this one.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Xegarus

[Wisdom]

Someone who knows Jiffy's play, is this par for the course? What are your reads on him/her?

Yes, probtown.

[Wisdom]

I disagree.
Scum going for an intentional townslip wouldn't immediately correct themselves saying that they found the answer because this drives attention away from the "townslip", whereas letting others answer is more effective in manipulating them into thinking that this is a townslip.
If anything, the correction tells me the question was honest. After asking, mothrax went and find the answer and then corrected himself.

[Wisdom]

lol
disregard my last post then.

[Wisdom]

Still think he's town regardless

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom why the vote on Xeg?

1) Lack of any form of content.
2) Two questions that weren't needed at all. The answers to both are obvious and it makes me believe they were posted just for filler.
3) His tone when accused of lurking. Like bork said, this sounds like accused scum who is annoyed about the reasons that they're being accused; probably thinking "wtf I would be like this as town too".

[Wisdom]

I'll also remind you that this is a proposed newbie setup. Newbies are 2/7. So yeah, 2/7 it is.

[Wisdom]

^Good idea, seconded.

[Wisdom]

Okay

[Wisdom]

@elvis
That's the feeling I'm getting from the exchange with Majiffy.

[Wisdom]

Why then of all times? About 20 minutes after your last post.
I don't usually do the whole time stamp thing but what made you vote then rather than before?

Was my post before that related to you?

[Wisdom]

Now lets just entertain the thought that this is how i would play for both alignments. Assuming you believe it, what then?

Let's assume you lurk as town and you lurk as scum.
You are scum in one game.
Someone in that game insists that you are scum because you're lurking.
You get annoyed because you know that this reason does not mean you are scum (as you do it as town too).

Your tone in that post made me feel you were annoyed in the way described above.

[Wisdom]

It means I obviously reread some of the posts/did other things those 20 minutes, then voted.

[Wisdom]

Nah I was wondering why you felt that the vote should have been in my previous post, when that post was completely unrelated to you.

[Wisdom]

Forgive me for not getting the point here, but are you trying to say that getting annoyed at being called a lurker is a bad thing?

You're indeed not getting the point.
Two different things:
a) Getting annoyed at being called a lurker
b) Getting annoyed at being called scum for something you'd also do as town.

[Wisdom]

You're still not voting him.

[Wisdom]

Do you need something from me then?

[Wisdom]

I don't think any of my reads are strong enough to be worth sharing, except that mothrax is town and Xegarus most likely scum.

[Wisdom]

Yup, but the meta point you bring up is correct so I am not that confident there.

[Wisdom]

I find it interesting that elvis did not express that concern when I told her she still wasn't voting him. She simply ignored me and finally voted after two posts, without any concern for the early L-1.

[Wisdom]

I don't know, given she was hesistant to vote him early on (see 139), ignoring me there and L-1ing without any concern looked to me like nervousness about if she should vote or not. Maybe I'm speculating too much but that's the feeling I get.

[Wisdom]

I know, I was answering to 213.

[Wisdom]

How does that make you feel?

[Wisdom]

Okay.

[Wisdom]

Well, as you can see, Wisdom kinda already brought it up before.
Didn't notice it?

nope

I find it interesting that elvis did not express that concern when I told her she still wasn't voting him. She simply ignored me and finally voted after two posts, without any concern for the early L-1.

Tiptoeing (or lack thereof) about putting someone at L-1 is a bullshit tell

VOTE: bork

[Wisdom]

no

[Wisdom]

Why are you voting Xegarus?

[Wisdom]

Why should I do anything else other than question your vote?

[Wisdom]

Haha.
More votes on bork please.

[Wisdom]

Why should I do anything else other than question your vote?

That's not a town mentality at all. You should be in here scumhunting and shit.

What if I found scum already?

[Wisdom]

Your reason for voting Xegarus is worse imo

[Wisdom]

Nope, it's just as bad.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, that must be it.

[Wisdom]

Both of those do not mean anything to me.

[Wisdom]

Because someone's entrance is not an excuse for a bad vote - in fact someone who enters is more nervous on how his first post will appear (first impression is what forms a gut read, thus important) and is more likely to do something telling.
As for not doing it anymore - it's not like he moved his vote anywhere better, and it's not like he gave any good reason either. Another bad vote, another weak (if any) reason.

[Wisdom]

Now tell me why you're defending him, I mean except because you're buddying him because you're scum.

[Wisdom]

And no, pretty sure it isn't.

[Wisdom]

@bork
You're trying to defend his actions, something that he can do by himself. I don't see why you'd do that as town.

@Jake
I was simply showing you that accusing me of lack of good reasons is pointless since your own reasons aren't any better.
I like that you don't care how you're perceived, because I don't either ^^

[Wisdom]

Not calling it scummy - you were just wondering why the two things you mentioned were of no importance to me. I explained to you why.

Jake, your reasons are bad, and your vote is also bad ^^

[Wisdom]

What part? Oh sure.
You wanted to vote me because I feel different to you yet you didn't want to because Majiffy pointed out it means nothing, but as soon as you found something that seemed scummy you jumped on me right away. Opportunism.

[Wisdom]

Actually both me and Pala are most likely town. Less sure about the latter, obviously.

[Wisdom]

Agreement that CE needs replacement

[Wisdom]

Yeah, replacement requests are always a scumtell.

[Wisdom]

I didn't see any heat on them. Only you suspected Pala and your reasons weren't any good.

[Wisdom]

Bork was sheeping me and there were a few others IIRC that were contemplating it, or at least condemning Pala for poor play.

Why were my reasons not any good? You didn't address this before; what changed? Or, barring any change, why only mention it now, after the wagon has dissolved?

The only person who sheeped you on Pala was bork, and bork didn't give any reason nor did he appear to support your idea, in fact he claimed that he believed Pala at the time that you voted Pala.

Your only reason for voting Pala is because you thought you caught a scumtell, namely because Pala unvoted right after someone else was told that they should have unvoted - which is a stretch. Town could just as easily have thought to unvote at that point.

The reason I did not comment on this earlier is because nobody was sheeping you anyway so Pala was not in danger. I thought everyone realized that your reasons are not nearly enough for wanting a lynch on him.

[Wisdom]

Hi Mac.

[Wisdom]

His reactions weren't particularly telling either.

[Wisdom]

None of your points is good enough to require refuting.

[Wisdom]

No, you're still wrong.

[Wisdom]

Eh, no we shouldn't.

[Wisdom]

I want to hear from the replacements, but I will probably support an Elvis lynch at this point.

[Wisdom]

Not really.

[Wisdom]

Yeah because scum don't fake looking for scum

[Wisdom]

Why don't you go and show us what exact posts make you believe that she is town instead?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Mac

The reads Mac gave:
Not liking Pala for this
Not liking elvis for that
Liking mothrax for this
Not liking mothrax for that
Liking bork for this
Not liking bork for this
Votes bork.

He essentially cancels his reads after he gives them; and the vote on Bork has poor reasoning.
He doesn't want to vote me because I'm the top wagon, so he settles for Bork.

[Wisdom]

Can we lynch wisdom already?

Any particular reason you want to lynch town?

[Wisdom]

Why should I do that?

[Wisdom]

@Mac
I can see no solid reads coming from you.
Can you make it clear what your reads are?

@Jake
Then you have to look elsewhere.
Read on Mac? Read on bork?

[Wisdom]

@Jake
CE was inactive, but Mac has posted and even made a case. Don't you have a lean either way based on his posts?

[Wisdom]

And remind me why you think bork is town?

[Wisdom]

Why do you think that scum can't "explain" that a case on them is "wrong"?

[Wisdom]

And remind me why you think bork is town?

Cause he's actively scumhunting and making sense

Weak.

[Wisdom]

A

townsperson would, but would

every

townsperson?

[Wisdom]

^Not quickhammering this time?

[Wisdom]

He's being useless and obtuse and that's simply not what I'm used to from him.

Did you check if I'm useless and obtuse when I'm scum?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: bork

[Wisdom]

{bork, Mac, elvis} contain scum.
mothrax, Xegarus and Pala(chkflip) are town.
Majiffy probtown because of the exchange with mothrax, but null tells after that.
Jake is also null - taking the easy way and tunneling on me is either indicative of scum looking for an easy lynch or town who doesn't know me. Gut says it's the former.

Let me know if you need a claim.

[Wisdom]

CE was scummy, your catchup post consisted of unsolid reads that ended to a vote with reasoning that looked like it was made up to accompany the vote so that it doesn't look scummy.
Your posts have been better after that though, and I happen to agree with your case on bork, so if bork is actually scum I will accept you're town.

[Wisdom]

What are the solid scumtells?

[Wisdom]

And no, this is not my usual town play, because I

don't have

a usual town play.

[Wisdom]

Active lurking for starters.

lolwut

[Wisdom]

I'm not trying to play to anything, I don't think I can be meta-read. I said that because usually whoever hasn't played with me before tunnels on me, then they think twice when they meet me again because they were wrong the first time.

[Wisdom]

Have you even looked at anyone else since you voted me?

[Wisdom]

Which you were voting before voting me.
So I am assuming the answer to my question is "no".

[Wisdom]

So you compared a single towngame to a single scumgame and you think you can read me?

[Wisdom]

There's nothing more useful I can do on this day than what I've already done.

[Wisdom]

Not really.
It's D1, we have nothing more than gut and minor things to go off.
There have been such things in your posts, in elvis' posts and in Mac's posts, all of which I have pointed out.

[Wisdom]

Which is why I didn't further argue with 513.

[Wisdom]

I made 512 because it's bullshit to argue someone is town because they're scumhunting. Like scum don't.

[Wisdom]

Because it was fair, it showed that what he meant was he was using his gut.

[Wisdom]

Jake stated that he's not so good on D1, and also acknowledged that his argument was indeed weak. That told me that the meaning of his argument was that he was going with his gut - his gut told him that "this guy is scumhunting, must be town", so I didn't continue arguing. If he had answered something like "no, it's not a weak argument, only town scumhunt so he's town" then I would have argued it further.

[Wisdom]

That was a quick change - one moment you're not exactly certain about my wagon and the next you are listing reasons why you scumread me.

[Wisdom]

Why would Jake do that as town? He wanted to read me, not make me look bad.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, I'm liking Xegarus less now.

[Wisdom]

chk looks like town to me, no surprise since Pala was town

[Wisdom]

I'm just being myself, don't know how regular townspeople do it.

[Wisdom]

I don't, and you'll realize you're wrong when I flip.

[Wisdom]

I think he meant I'm toxic in this game, not in general.

[Wisdom]

You guys still have time to avoid lynching town and lynch someone else.

[Wisdom]

If I had something better than what I've already pointed out, I'd have done so already.

[Wisdom]

How do you feel about Elvis?

[Wisdom]

nvm me, I'm an idiot. You're voting elvis already.

[Wisdom]

Anyway, the only wagons that would work right now are Xegarus or Elvis, and I'm liking Elvis less, so
VOTE: elvis

[Wisdom]

Btw, if you guys are willing to consider an Elvis wagon, one of you should unvote me, because elvis can easily hammer me and blame it on self-preservation.

[Wisdom]

She can actually, deadline is approaching so she can find all sorts of excuses.

[Wisdom]

One more day and 9 hours, I think.

[Wisdom]

(Look at the last votecount for it, because Quilford froze the time for a while for the replacements, so the time in the first votecounts is inaccurate)

[Wisdom]

The time is counting down on the last vc

[Wisdom]

It counts down, if you check it in 1 hour, it will say 1 day 8 hours. Get it?

[Wisdom]

Np.
Now can we lynch elvis?

[Wisdom]

Don't have much other than her echoing Mr E Roll in 24, announcing she's going to start reaction testing in 74, which she does in 81 and it feels forced, the absolutely bad 96, the announcing that she likes Xegarus wagon and she wants to join in 134, only to do so in 197, while she has showed continuous support for the wagon and has continued to tunnel on Xegarus and accuse him of things between these posts. Also her ignoring of my 190.

[Wisdom]

I'm town too, find something better.

[Wisdom]

Is there anyone you're willing to consider other than me?

[Wisdom]

There's still time. Why lynch town if there's a chance to lynch scum?

[Wisdom]

There are still 31 hours left, during which everyone is more or less guaranteed to read the thread and adjust their vote if necessary (except maybe elvis). So yeah, there is still time to consider whoever.

[Wisdom]

Because youscum would necessarily have to make that argument.

Why are you town? Why has your play this game not followed your typical town play?

Because I don't have a "typical town play".

I would prolly make a similar argument as scum, but I am not currently scum.

[Wisdom]

Possibly, although mac coming in as a townread muddies the waters a bit as it probably means one of my other reads is way off. Chk's still null for now because I find it hard to read post by post catchup type of things since the mindset changes so quickly and I was way back and forth on Pala.

Not mothrax, not mac. Majiffy's weirding me out lately...his interactions with me are really superficial and he's gone into tunnel mode on you which is not helpful for reading him. Jake's probably town but that read is weak too...he has buddied me incredibly hard this game so far for having such a weak day 1 read (not that I want to get into that whole thing again)

Elvis is too removed from the game to be a good source of info, although I'm not counting her out.

But you're not doing anything to convince me you're town.

p-edit: AtE/F is really not going to do it.

You forgot Xegarus, it's basically him or elvis if you decide not to lynch me.

But I am not sure what you expect from me to be convinced I am town. Mac asked me for a case on elvis, I provided what I could. What more can I possibly do?

[Wisdom]

Because I don't have a "typical town play".

This is bullshit, because you do.

As mollie likes to say,
Town Wincon >>>> Town Motivation >>>> Town Posting

Your demeanor is different. Ergo, you're not playing as you do as town. Ergo you do not have town motivation. Ergo you do not have a town wincon.

I don't, and you're wrong. And I will be sure to use this against you if you accuse me on meta again in any game.

[Wisdom]

Unless you're scum, in which case it makes total sense that you're tunneling on me.

[Wisdom]

You shouldn't, but you shouldn't find me scum either.

[Wisdom]

@bork
My thought process was that you claimed you missed the fact I pointed out the fact elvis put Xeg at L-1 without showing any concern and after ignoring my "you're not voting him" after having supported the wagon but not voted for the whole game, but found it a good point when Xeg said the same things in different words.

@Majiffy
And what should my perspective be on tunnelers who refuse to accept they're wrong?

[Wisdom]

What good is effort if you've decided you're not considering to lynch anyone else?

[Wisdom]

Majiffy has heavily pushed Mothrax and Pala, both of which are probably town, so it's not unlikely at all that this is scum-Majiffy. His reasons were really bad too.

[Wisdom]

Well he voted Xegarus at one point too, maybe that was the bussing.

[Wisdom]

I don't care who has flipped and who hasn't; I consider those two town and I've seen Majiffy pushing their lynches for bullshit reasons. It's enough for me.

[Wisdom]

@bork
His not budging tunneling annoys me. He's not even willing to consider another lynch. And note that he has tunneled on me in the past.
But it's true that it's not unlike town-Majiffy to be like this.

@Jake
I have to agree with this, and that's why I am not sure whether Majiffy is scum or not.

[Wisdom]

No, I meant that's enough for me to consider him being scum. I don't argue he certainly is.

[Wisdom]

I was suspicious of elvis but he made some good points so I am less so.

What are the good points that elvis made?

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom: can you give updated reads for me?

Town - mothrax, chkflip
Nulltown - Jake, bork, Mac
Null - Majiffy
Nullscum - elvis, Xegarus


Not finding an elvis-Xegarus pair so likely because of their exchange, but one should be scum.

[Wisdom]

things that read town
post 188 when he calls out CE (interesting note CE basically vanishes and never comes back and is replaced after this so + scum points for CE/Mac)
post 192 - basically repeats post 188 (doesn't want town to forget that)
post 465/466

People replacing out is not a scumtell, so this is null at best and scummy because of scum wanting to accuse someone with shitty reasons at worst.
465/466 is her being tunneled on Xegarus, to the point of ignoring whatever else is happening in the game just to talk about Xegarus. Easily could come from scum. Null at best if we assume she didn't feel like talking about anything else, which seems unlikely to me.

So I am not sure why you are getting town vibes from those.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, I acknowledged that.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom has been advocating me-scum despite having me in the null for the past two pages.

Umm no. I said that it's not unlikely for you being scum, because bork brought it up. I never said anything about lynching you. I was clear on that matter that if you decide not to lynch me (which you should do soon), we should decide on elvis or Xegarus.

[Wisdom]

Yeah I've just never seen you try to lynch me over my playstyle before. Which, again, fits with not-town-Wisdom.

You mean except the other time that you tunneled on me and I counter-tunneled on you?

[Wisdom]

Unless you're scum, in which case it makes total sense that you're tunneling on me.

Majiffy has heavily pushed Mothrax and Pala, both of which are probably town, so it's not unlikely at all that this is scum-Majiffy. His reasons were really bad too.

Well he voted Xegarus at one point too, maybe that was the bussing.

I don't care who has flipped and who hasn't; I consider those two town and I've seen Majiffy pushing their lynches for bullshit reasons. It's enough for me.

This is not "it's not unlikely for him to be scum" behavior, this is "I think he's scum and I'm trying to see how far I can push his lynch" until no one else supported it and you started walking me back to null and then putting forth Elvis and Xeg scum reads.

Eat rope.

No, this is me saying that it's not unlikely for you to be scum. I even say it in those exact words in the second quote. Unless tunneling makes you illiterate or blind.

[Wisdom]

If wisdom is so confirmed scum to you, why not save the easy one for last? Work out the partner first. We have the time to jump onto elvis.

I really can't see this coming from town.

VOTE: Xegarus

If he hammers me, please rope him tomorrow.

[Wisdom]

The big picture is that I said you might be scum, no matter how much you want to discredit me.

[Wisdom]

The big picture is that I said you might be scum, no matter how much you want to discredit me.

The big picture is you're pushing all those arguments from the perspective of thinking I'm confscum. Which is not what a null read should be influencing you to post like.

Are you reading a different game than the rest of us? Where do you see me considering you confscum? I just mentioned the possibility of you being scum and how some actions like your votes would make sense in that possibility. That doesn't mean "Majiffy is confscum, period, case closed."

[Wisdom]

Wisdom you used circular reasoning when you talked about Majiffy possibly being scum on the last page; "this explains his actions if you assume he's scum" is not how you prove someone is scum.

Except I didn't want to prove he's scum but to bring up the possibility that he might be scum.

[Wisdom]

Actually not even bring up, since you brought it up. It was just my thoughts on the matter.

[Wisdom]

Well he voted Xegarus at one point too,

maybe that was the bussing.

This speculation is pointless if not for a flip or confscum read. And beyond pointless, also doesn't make sense if not for a scum flip or confscum read.

bork mentioned that you usually bus, I told him about a possible scenario that a vote of you could be bussing. Makes absolute sense, no confscum reads or anything. Just a possibility.

It's enough for me.

Enough for you to... what? Consider me "not unlikely" to be scum? Well jeez, 2/9 probability, call me dumbfounded how you came up with that notion! No. This statement is not made by someone who ends with a null read.

That was explained already - I said it's enough for me to think that you might be scum, because bork was arguing that it's not enough to get that impression from that. Which I disagreed with.

[Wisdom]

Except I didn't want to prove he's scum but to bring up the possibility that he might be scum.

Do you not understand that this is

self-evident

to everyone with a town alignment in the game?

That's irrelevant. I am about to get lynched for some time now, so I am trying to give whatever thoughts I can to the town for future use. You mentioned Majiffy, so you got my thoughts on the matter. You got reasons why he might be scum. I didn't want to argue that he's scum and he's a good lynch, and I think that's obvious. I merely gave my thoughts on the subject you brought up.

[Wisdom]

I had already said multiple times and still say that the only alternative lynches if we decided not to lynch me are Xegarus or elvis. In no way did I want to add Majiffy to those. I just shared what I thought about him because you brought him up.

Of course everyone might be scum, but some reads are stronger than others, and Majiffy is more likely to be scum than most others, at least imo.

[Wisdom]

Why the hell do you think both Xeg and elvis are town. That's ridiculously unlikely.

[Wisdom]

And a xeg/Elvis as possible team..

did you really read

this

game?

[Wisdom]

Then why the shit are you saying after all this that you have a null read on him?

bork, you asked for my reads, did you read them..?

[Wisdom]

Why is it ridiculously unlikely? There's nine of us here. There's only like an 11% chance either of them is scum, statistically speaking.

PEDIT: Wisdom, I certainly did, but I like that you're trying ever hard to discredit what little I've given up. Their early game with one another reads like distancing but, since, they've both become strong townreads to me. Doesn't change what I thought of that particular play.

What do you think about their exchange and their cross voting then? Town on town? Any signs that tell you so?

[Wisdom]

Yeah, you've said "my bad" at least 2 times now, but you still want to lynch me and you don't think anything's getting you to switch your vote.

[Wisdom]

Okay, so what more do you want? Are we clear on the Majiffy thing? Have I made clear who I think is scum and who I want lynched?

[Wisdom]

I don't find it likely that Xegarus and elvis share the same alignment. Their exchange does not look like town on town to me, and I find them being both scum also unlikely because of the extreme distancing. I made a little case on elvis after Mac's request however it was not anything special, and I have made better cases in the past that were proven wrong. However I don't like Xegarus' recent posts at all, not liking his continued tunneling on elvis even at this point, and I particularly dislike the "let's go for the partner" comment, which implies he also considers me scum but doesn't want to hammer, and I really cannot see any town motivation behind that. It's unwise to search for a partner with the other scum alive (because of WIFOM), and it's crazy to risk lynching town when you have "confscum", as Xegarus thinks. So after that, I'm certain I want to lynch Xegarus.

How's that?

[Wisdom]

That doesn't matter, you still suggested that town should go for the partner instead of lynching who they think is scum. Which is not something town would suggest.

[Wisdom]

Also you didn't include Mac in your reads.

[Wisdom]

If wisdom is so confirmed scum to you, why not save the easy one for last? Work out the partner first. We have the time to jump onto elvis.

This doesn't seem like asking. You tell him "do that", it's advice/suggestion that this is what you think should happen.

[Wisdom]

So you did suggest.

[Wisdom]

True that

[Wisdom]

@elvis
Simple version; few hours left till the deadline and we should lynch someone.

[Wisdom]

Can we lynch xegarus?

Well, I'm voting him.

[Wisdom]

@mothrax
Her post was referring to you calling yourself Mithras.

[Wisdom]

I guess it was a phone typo

[Wisdom]

I guess it all comes down to whether two of {bork, Jake, Mac} want to vote Xegarus, since I guess Majiffy and chkflip are too busy voting each other.

[Wisdom]

I won't flip scum, and Pala won't either.

[Wisdom]

And you're every bit responsible for my lynch as everyone else, if it happens. Saying "I told you it's Pala" after I flip won't save you.

[Wisdom]

You need to get on elvis.
But if i must, i'll jump onto wisdom before bed. But thats like 4 hours from now so i'm fine with elvis atm.

Everyone but you is reading Elvis as town. Take off the blinders.

I'm not reading her as town.

[Wisdom]

Only if someone who intents to hammer me asks me to.

[Wisdom]

Yeah but we're also all trying to lynch so, so you're not really considered part of "everyone".

I am part of this town, so I am part of everyone, and I don't read her as town.

[Wisdom]

Yeah but we're also all trying to lynch so, so you're not really considered part of "everyone".

I am part of this town, so I am part of everyone

Nope

Yup.

[Wisdom]

Just fucking sheep me already.

Can someone please vig this

Noone can vig this, but we can lynch this.

[Wisdom]

What's up Xeg, getting nervous that bork will vote you?

[Wisdom]

No, i dont mind being lynched. Bork, if you wanna lynch me, i'll even hammer myself for you.

Someone please vote him and ask him to self-hammer, because this is just a bluff and it's ridiculously obvious.

[Wisdom]

Yup, it's a bluff. You can do it now because you didn't hammer yourself. You wouldn't do it if you were at L-1.

[Wisdom]

Xeg you're lynched.

[Wisdom]

So you don't want elvis lynched anymore?

[Wisdom]

Why would anyone ask you for a claim? You wanted to lynch yourself...

[Wisdom]

That's a call for replacing out, not self voting.

[Wisdom]

Town can tunnel too, Xeg. Tunneling does not equal scum.
But I do suspect her more now that I know you're town.

[Wisdom]

And Elvis reads a firm town in ISO

Nope, she doesn't.

[Wisdom]

Noope.

[Wisdom]

I thought her early game stuff was pretty solid. She moved the game forward when no one else really could get it to go anywhere.

After that she faded bigtime.

Neh, it seemed too fake. She was like "I will now overreact so we get reactions", which really didn't help her if that was her purpose.
But her whole thing with not voting Xeg then suddenly voting him for L-1 makes sense if she's scum, now that we know Xeg was town.

[Wisdom]

And no, I don't trust twilight claims.

I agree with you but I really find it unlikely he's trolling scum given his twilight posts.

[Wisdom]

We can hope though, I guess.

[Wisdom]

Well he was expecting being asked to claim so maybe that's why he had Vanilla as an answer ready.

[Wisdom]

mothrax, Jake and bork are town.
As much as I liked Mac's unvote because I thought he understood I am not scum, it was a bad thing to do because he didn't vote Xegarus or anyone else and then he disappeared. For that he falls back to null.
Majiffy's play was terrible near the end of the day but the chkflip nightkill maybe means he isn't scum as he would want to push him for a lynch. Or it might be WIFOM.
elvis has a good likelihood of being scum due to her tunneling/exchanges with Xegarus, which did not really look like town on town to me.

VOTE: elvis

[Wisdom]

Also whoever still has elvis as null, try to read her instead of continuously stating you have her as null.

[Wisdom]

So your entire case on me is that I thought xegarus was scum.

Nope, it's also the things I said in 624, and PoE.

Who is scum, elvis? Your scumread died.

[Wisdom]

elvis, who are the scum now?

Mac, who are the scum now? Why do you ask elvis when you didn't provide your reads either?

[Wisdom]

Also whoever still has elvis as null, try to read her instead of continuously stating you have her as null.

(Since you're at least partially talking about me here) I'm not sure where you get from "I don't currently have a good read on elvis" to "I'm not trying to get a read on elvis". I'm not going to force or fabricate a read I don't have.

That's fine, but you've said that elvis is null for you quite a few times now so it's starting to be annoying.

[Wisdom]

elvis, who are the scum now?

Mac, who are the scum now? Why do you ask elvis when you didn't provide your reads either?

Because I didn't lock into a single scumread yesterday and push it until it flipped town.

Minus the unvoting part you more or less did, but regardless that's no reason for you not to provide your thoughts.

[Wisdom]

And yeah, the NK is null. The only thing that I can think of is that even if Majiffy is scum, it was his partner who did the kill, as Majiffy was most likely the JK target and thus he would have been blocked.

[Wisdom]

Well I didn't see that, but it's sure interesting that you did.

[Wisdom]

two of you, Mac and majiffy.

Any preference?

[Wisdom]

Or because you're WIFOMing us.

[Wisdom]

two of you, Mac and majiffy.

Any preference?

I'm not sure yet. I was thinking majiffy most.

was

? Not anymore?

[Wisdom]

I am not trying to find you scummy, I am asking you what your reads are. If you say "I was thinking Majiffy" it implies that you currently are not thinking it's Majiffy. But you didn't make it clear.

[Wisdom]

Who are your reads?

1002

[Wisdom]

Not exactly, I am saying it's you with Mac and Majiffy closer to null.