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Post #101 (isolation #25) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:50 am
Postby XScorpion »
In post 99, Trine wrote:I don't know, exactly, but I've been developing tone-and-timing-informed reads since I started playing mafia. But, they usually point up something more objective in the involved posts, and I can almost always explain my read in a decipherable form once it's jelled.
For most players this makes sense but for lynch-bait players this may be difficult at best. Some players just always seem scummy to me, but I've been told I am overly accusative.
In post 99, Trine wrote:Cold meta is a thing. I've meta'd her for other games and I'll be doing some reviews to refresh my memory.
It's a thing, but how useful is it really? I find that unless I've actually interacted with players in a game (past or present) I don't have any way to get a good read.
I concede that my ability to read this type of player is flimsy at best, so I won't push a wagon on Hermy now (also because I don't want her voting herself out right away) but if I am confident she is scum I'm not going to let her reputation prevent me from voting her.
I am very curious as to how she sees me vs. GG as town on town when I didn't get any read from GG (except for a read of our mutual math and communication skills). Trine as well (GG already explained it as gut). Can the both of you explain the townreads? Is it just gut or do you have more reasoning??
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Post #104 (isolation #26) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:56 am
Postby XScorpion »
In post 102, Desperado wrote:Not really. Trine thinks you two get townpoints for getting us out of RVS--Hermy chimed in at the end of an argument and just called you both town ("at the moment").
Does the timing of these not matter? Hermy said it first and included the phrase 'at the moment', while Trine agreed and worded it in a less suspicious way. Ultimately they both have the same opinion, right?
Or is it specifically the wording that pings?
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Post #110 (isolation #29) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:10 am
Postby XScorpion »
Sure, but you could have just said 'I think it's town vs. town' and it would mean the same thing. Adding 'at the moment' makes it sounds like you are planning ahead to change your reads later on.
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Post #123 (isolation #33) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:09 am
Postby XScorpion »
BRO, is it fair to say you are not on board with the 'wait-and-see' approach for hermy?
How would you rank Des/Hermy/GG in terms of scumminess right now?
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Post #126 (isolation #35) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:59 am
Postby XScorpion »
By 'that' I mean the explanation for a town-read on Grim.
Although I do concur that BRO's comment-to-question ratio in that post is 5 to 1, and the question is not directed towards who he is voting.
In post 123, XScorpion wrote:How would you rank Des/Hermy/GG in terms of scumminess right now?
Desp>GG>Hermy
Why is GG scummy? And if GG is scummy is there some reason why we are not? If your read of GG is dependent on his stance re Hermy, then I feel that we should also be somewhere in your list.
~ Zoya
To be fair here, I only asked BRO to compare these three because 122 seemed to suggest he thought all three were scummy.
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Post #173 (isolation #44) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:25 am
Postby XScorpion »
Who, do you only vote when you are confident someone is scum? What makes one "worthy" of a vote? Why not vote Des if you are suspicious, even if you aren't sure?
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Post #207 (isolation #50) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:31 am
Postby XScorpion »
I think you just won the award for most wishy-washy character in this game.
In post 191, TierShift wrote:Woah woah bad entrance...can't believe I missed that vote right before me...*facepalm*
UNVOTE:
I don't feel like it's time for L-1 yet.
In post 198, TierShift wrote:Big FoS: BROseidon (mind you, I'm not at all stating intent to hammer)
In post 206, TierShift wrote:I agree with gg that this claim is no reason to move our votes.
I don't believe you're looking for scum, I think you're just making sure the wagon you're on is supported and you don't look suspicious. Very scummy that you are putting him to L-1 after I asked for a Desp read and you said you'd do it 'tomorrow or later tonight', because if someone hammers then you get off scott free. I don't think so. You're going to have to work a lot harder than that to convince me you're town.
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Post #210 (isolation #51) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:54 am
Postby XScorpion »
TierShift wrote:I agree with gg that this claim is no reason to move our votes.
It was a horrible claim, let me explain.
1. He wasn't forced to claim, there wasn't even an intent to hammer.
2. Weak visitor is much weaker (pun not intended) when claimed, if he actually had that role he would have been holding back with claiming it until the last possible moment.
3. If you look at past roles in these Upick games, linked here for your convenience, weak visitor isn't a likely role to be included (this point is debatable though).
4. Easy to claim for scum, isn't it?
VOTE: BROseidon
That's L-1
1) Considering the fact that so many people think BRO is scummy I'm not really surprised even if there wasn't an intent to hammer. GG has spent so much time trying to defend Hermy (it is defending no matter what he says) that I would not be surprised if there was a Hermy-hammer set up to finish BRO off before he could claim. If not for Trine unvoting he could easily be dead now.
2) Actually I think the idea of 'hinting' at who they are going to target is basically useless and full of WIFOM. The weak visitor's best use is to confirm people as town, not identify scum. You can do this whether you claim or not. There is also the possibility that he isn't a weak visitor and is actually a hider, in which case his claim makes more sense.
3) My role isn't included either so your point is null and void.
4) So are other roles, what's your point?
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Post #213 (isolation #52) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:05 pm
Postby XScorpion »
In post 211, Grimgroove wrote:XScorpion, how are you planning to get a read on Hermy, given what you know of her?
I'm going to wait and see what she contributes. At the moment I have no reason to think she is town and a good reason to think she is scum, so I'll have to see if that changes. There are scummier people to deal with right now though who you aren't defending as 'lynch-bait'. If we lynch someone else (besides you) and they flip scum I'll be more likely to think that she isn't scum.
Grimgroove wrote:
In post 210, XScorpion wrote:GG has spent so much time trying to defend Hermy that I would not be surprised if there was a Hermy-hammer set up to finish BRO off before he could claim
Can you explain the connection between me defending Hermy and Hermy hammering BROseidon?
Hermy is the person most likely to get away with a hammer and not immediately die the next day because both you and her would make excuses saying that 'oh it's because she's lynch-bait' etc. etc.
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Post #247 (isolation #54) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:46 am
Postby XScorpion »
The wagon sucks because the last two votes on it (Hermy/tier) are so bad.
As for your other question, if Hermy actually did hammer and you defended it, I'd still be 100% convinced she is scum. Your alignment is more unclear but probably town just because I feel like it's just too ridiculous for the scumteam to out themselves like that, especially since it's an easy town win with any additional investigative roles when Hermy flips scum.
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Post #248 (isolation #55) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:49 am
Postby XScorpion »
Also that scenario would require gg, des, trine, and tier to be on the wagon without Hermy otherwise she couldn't hammer. Somehow I actually doubt she will hammer anyone this game if her attitude is to jump on obvious wagons right away.
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Post #280 (isolation #58) » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:35 am
Postby XScorpion »
So what points do you have left exactly?
The only things I don't like about des' play are when he votes w/o explaining why immediately (e.g. 221). Town shouldn't have to ask the reasoning for the vote, it should be provided.