Your avatar scares me...
-Amadeus
Undisclosed.In post 18, Who wrote:What other heads other than Bulbazak?
We'll sign our posts and won't goof around impersonating each other. Beyond that you are on your own.And who is which head?
Would it be a problem if he hadn't voted?In post 23, XScorpion wrote:Why no vote?
I see paranoia as usually a town trait.In post 26, Desperado wrote:It was actually RVS. What do I have to be paranoid of?
I don't know. Should I take it as a sign that you are town?In post 32, Desperado wrote:That's cool.In post 27, Trine wrote:I see paranoia as usually a town trait.
So why would/should I be paranoid of you?
I have concerns about Desperado actually, which is why I tried to initiate some discussion with him. I didn't want to completely lay out what I would expect from him if he's town at that point, but his not pushing harder right off the bat to move the game out of RVS was of concern to me.In post 80, Grimgroove wrote:Because of the paranoia-thing.
Looks like an (albeit humble) effort to get out of RVS.
But why question someone over something you consider a town-trait?In post 27, Trine wrote:I see paranoia as usually a town trait.In post 26, Desperado wrote:It was actually RVS. What do I have to be paranoid of?
~ Zoya
And this shows a strong inclination to townread Desperado. Desperado earlier said that he wasn't paranoid ("blank slates"), yet here Zoya insists his extended hand over the paranoia-tell that has been waved away by Desperado himself.In post 36, Trine wrote:I don't know. Should I take it as a sign that you are town?In post 32, Desperado wrote:That's cool.In post 27, Trine wrote:I see paranoia as usually a town trait.
So why would/should I be paranoid of you?
~ Xoya
I see no progression (which could be explained by passing the ENTIRE thing off as fluff-RVS-posting) were it not for what I consider to be a subtle buddying-attempt in the form of an implied and persevering willingness to townread Desperado.
I'd like the Zoya-head to respond.
Both of our initial scumreads have their genesis prior to Hermy's first post.In post 90, Desperado wrote:Yes, distressed. Both of your initial scumreads(?) are directly related to their vote on Hermy.
I don't believe I am. I think you are sidestepping my issue, actually.And you're still sidestepping the issue.
My argument begins with "why is Desperado not doing anything to advance the game out of RVS? Not even my half-assed posts at him elicited a snap." Hermy is an afterthought, though one I find somewhat concerning.Does your argument really end at "Hermy is lynchbait?"
Almost too scummy to be scum. Almost. Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.If so, is it because you agree that their post was scummy as balls?
My feeling is that once RVS was done, it was done. Grimgroove and XScorpion ended it, and earned townreads in the process. While that was a lost opportunity to form a read on you, it won't be the only opportunity.In post 94, Desperado wrote:So when it became clear that your prodding me wasn't doing anything to achieve your stated goal (get out of RVS), why didn't you try something else? It looks a lot to me like you all passed the buck on to Penguin and I (calling her out for inactivity during a holiday on page two?) and then calling us scummy for not doing the work for you.In post 92, Trine wrote:My argument begins with "why is Desperado not doing anything to advance the game out of RVS? Not even my half-assed posts at him elicited a snap." Hermy is an afterthought, though one I find somewhat concerning.
Tone and timing, along with some meta comparisons.In post 93, XScorpion wrote:In post 85, Trine wrote:I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).In post 92, Trine wrote:Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.
I don't know, exactly, but I've been developing tone-and-timing-informed reads since I started playing mafia. But, they usually point up something more objective in the involved posts, and I can almost always explain my read in a decipherable form once it's jelled.In post 98, XScorpion wrote:What exactly about tone and timing gives you reads?In post 96, Trine wrote:Tone and timing, along with some meta comparisons.In post 93, XScorpion wrote:In post 85, Trine wrote:I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).In post 92, Trine wrote:Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.
Cold meta is a thing. I've meta'd her for other games and I'll be doing some reviews to refresh my memory.And how am I supposed to make meta-comparisons without having played with Hermy?
You are town, because you seem genuinely confused and are actively trying to figure things out. Grim is town, because it looked like he legitimately misunderstood you. Once he realized that, he stopped pushing you, instead of continuing to push you and framing it as you willfully misrepping him.In post 101, XScorpion wrote: I am very curious as to how she sees me vs. GG as town on town when I didn't get any read from GG (except for a read of our mutual math and communication skills). Trine as well (GG already explained it as gut). Can the both of you explain the townreads? Is it just gut or do you have more reasoning??
Why shouldn't he pressure Who?In post 129, BROseidon wrote:Why are you applying stupid pressure votes when there's better people to pressure.In post 125, XScorpion wrote:I can buy that.
VOTE: Who needs to get in the game.
@Who: Why wagon the hydras?
There are players I tend to scumread by default as well. I have reason to think that I can get a decent read on Hermy by watching her interactions and reactions. If I give up on it, I'll be sure to make that known.In post 101, XScorpion wrote:For most players this makes sense but for lynch-bait players this may be difficult at best. Some players just always seem scummy to me, but I've been told I am overly accusative.In post 99, Trine wrote:I don't know, exactly, but I've been developing tone-and-timing-informed reads since I started playing mafia. But, they usually point up something more objective in the involved posts, and I can almost always explain my read in a decipherable form once it's jelled.
If you become confident she's scum then by all means pursue it.It's a thing, but how useful is it really? I find that unless I've actually interacted with players in a game (past or present) I don't have any way to get a good read.In post 99, Trine wrote:Cold meta is a thing. I've meta'd her for other games and I'll be doing some reviews to refresh my memory.
I concede that my ability to read this type of player is flimsy at best, so I won't push a wagon on Hermy now (also because I don't want her voting herself out right away) but if I am confident she is scum I'm not going to let her reputation prevent me from voting her.
Your interactions with each other, what caused you to sheath the verbal swords, and the fact that both of you pushed beyond the RVS envelope. Scum like RVS and usually aren't interested in helping move the game into more productive territory.I am very curious as to how she sees me vs. GG as town on town when I didn't get any read from GG (except for a read of our mutual math and communication skills). Trine as well (GG already explained it as gut). Can the both of you explain the townreads? Is it just gut or do you have more reasoning??
I didn't call either of you town purely on the basis of your slapfight. I'm not sure how you got that from my posts.@Des:Trine is doing this too. Do you think they and Hermy are both scummy for this?In post 76, Desperado wrote:- Baselessly calls a slapfight TvT
p-edit: TV's is a good post.
In either case, how much more likely do you actually think?In post 103, Desperado wrote:But Trine really IS doing this also, to an even greater degree than Grim. If Hermy is scum then Grim is probably more likely to be his partner--if Hermy is town, Trine is more likely to be scum looking for towncred.In post 100, Turkish Van wrote:However I can say GG defending Hermy in a sense to keep pressure off her is eyeballing. My gut says it's partner defending a partner, but I feel like it's most likely scum defending possible town for some cred if Hermy were to flip in the future.
Did you have reason to think that invoking Sanhora at this time would cause an appearance?
We noticed last night that Desp's initial two votes had followed TV's.In post 122, BROseidon wrote:This is a strange derphammer to bring up. It's not like Desp is Saki or something.
Why did you feel the need to justify your vote?In post 61, Who wrote:I unvoted TV because things were going slowly and I decided to get a wagon going. Then I realized that someone else had voted TV so a wagon was going. TV is currently at L-2.
Urge to lynch, rising.In post 73, Hermy wrote:Sorry, busy weekend.
The Scorpion and Grimgroove thing looks like town on town to me at the moment.
On a semi OT (but indie game related, so yeah) note: I went and downloaded Surgeon Simulator 2013 today, hoping for a few hours of hilarious fun. I complete the operation on my first go with an A++. *siiiiiigh*
"I'm okay with letting players obfuscate scummy play with meta-level stupidity."In post 77, Grimgroove wrote:During the previos game I've played with Hermy, she set herself up as lynchbait in the beginning of the game as well. I would like to see her operate without any pressure at all before reaching any conclusions on that slot.
...
This is your 2nd post on the same page where you post something right after penguin that supports penguin's post.In post 82, Desperado wrote:Grim, why are you encouraging someone to continue playing badly as town? Even if you're right and Hermy is town setting herself up as an easy mislynch, that is just a distraction--at best.
VOTE: Desp
...except you are...In post 113, Grimgroove wrote:And for the record, before this thing starts leading its own life: I never defended Hermy. I simply advocated another approach based on my earlier experiences with her. Just read the game I linked you to earlier you'll see perfectly where I'm coming from. Even that game itself I had resevrations about Baezu because of her lynchbait characteristics, but still went after her in the end after she failed in some reaction tests. And I went after Hermy for not recognizing the fact she was lynchbait as well. Lynchbaits are lynchbaits exactly because they fail reaction tests, regardless of alignment. So how to discern the alignment of lynchbait? Not through reaction tests, but by letting them act on their own accord.
Your signature gives your post such a twist. I have to read them twice to tell if there really is a wink implied by the text.In post 142, Desperado wrote:Yeah, Bo was posting in the postgame of another game.
Why is GG scummy? And if GG is scummy is there some reason why we are not? If your read of GG is dependent on his stance re Hermy, then I feel that we should also be somewhere in your list.In post 128, BROseidon wrote:Desp>GG>HermyIn post 123, XScorpion wrote:How would you rank Des/Hermy/GG in terms of scumminess right now?
Ah you're right. Your vote on us came before TV's. I had it backwards in memory. Never mind the bit about following, then. I'll keep it in mind as a parallel in progression.In post 146, Desperado wrote:How did you notice something that isn't true? I only "followed" Penguin on to Hermy, and that's only in the sense that we both reacted the same way to Hermy's post--and again, no one has even attempted to argue against it being scummy.In post 143, Trine wrote:We noticed last night that Desp's initial two votes had followed TV's.
Do you have a theory why Scum-Desperado would shadow TV?
Then my question is even more relevant. Why wasn't I mentioned in post 122?In post 149, XScorpion wrote:To be fair here, I only asked BRO to compare these three because 122 seemed to suggest he thought all three were scummy.In post 145, Trine wrote:Why is GG scummy? And if GG is scummy is there some reason why we are not? If your read of GG is dependent on his stance re Hermy, then I feel that we should also be somewhere in your list.In post 128, BROseidon wrote:Desp>GG>HermyIn post 123, XScorpion wrote:How would you rank Des/Hermy/GG in terms of scumminess right now?
~ Zoya
Back up and explain why GG is scum again. I'm missing something pretty important if you have him as scum and me as town.In post 151, BROseidon wrote:Given my scumreads, you're implicitly town. Why should I give scum a sense of relative strength of townreads?
How is Grim connected to Desp?In post 153, BROseidon wrote:It's associative and contingent on Desp being scum.
So obviously I'm pushing Desp before anyone else.
PM your guess to the mod. We'll see if you are correct in the postgame.In post 214, BROseidon wrote:I think I know who you are...
Okay, your role actually makes sense now.
Hi. TalkIn post 226, BROseidon wrote:The former.In post 224, Trine wrote:BROseidon,
Have Hermy/GG/Tier all three exceeded Desperado in scummyness? Or have you decided Desperado is town by some other reasoning?
This is the one I disagree on. Can you go into more detail about the bro-peng status quo, and why you think it's not peng just meta-dodging to give you what you're looking for?In post 232, BROseidon wrote:TV has generally posted good content that makes sense from a town-perspective. Also, I'd have expected penguin to push me by now if she were scum; she knows she can out-argue me fairly consistently.
We're no animorph, that's for sure; but I'd prefer you keep it between us for now, ok?In post 232, BROseidon wrote:The way your hydra has responded to my play indicates a familiarity with my play that you didn't need to indicate, and you could have used your anonymity to fake not knowing how my playstyle works. I don't see a scum-motivation in how you've dealt with this.
~PontiusIn post 234, Trine wrote:We're no animorph, that's for sure; but I'd prefer you keep it between us for now, ok?In post 232, BROseidon wrote:The way your hydra has responded to my play indicates a familiarity with my play that you didn't need to indicate, and you could have used your anonymity to fake not knowing how my playstyle works. I don't see a scum-motivation in how you've dealt with this.
So objectively Desperado's play has the same degree of scumminess to you as before?In post 232, BROseidon wrote:Sounds good.
I shouldn't have to go over why XScorp is town because it's obvious as shit. There's some stuff I want to keep obfuscated in there because ~reasons~
TV has generally posted good content that makes sense from a town-perspective. Also, I'd have expected penguin to push me by now if she were scum; she knows she can out-argue me fairly consistently.
The way your hydra has responded to my play indicates a familiarity with my play that you didn't need to indicate, and you could have used your anonymity to fake not knowing how my playstyle works. I don't see a scum-motivation in how you've dealt with this.
Desp and Who are town by virtue of other people being scummier.
Gone Home is a game where the main character arrives at an empty house and must proceed to explore it. In this sense, you, the player, are just visiting the house, which fits with the Visitor role. The only reason why it has the weak modifier is that Visitor is a useless role by itself, so I can see the mod adding the modifier to actually make it useful.In post 241, Grimgroove wrote: @ Trine-Amadeus: How does the game-name relate to the role? Just checked the wiki (looks like an interesting game), but I don't see how it relates to the PR in such an obvious way like you suggested.
Oh shit you are scum wow. So many excuses for a simple friendly dance request. Reminds me of one of our old games.In post 299, Who wrote:For some reason I just can't get into this game, not sure why. I'm pretty sure I'll become more active (Note: This is not a promise only a prediction) soon, for some reason it feels like a large right now. Also it feels as if I haven't played mafia in ages. I'm in only one other game right now, and I died in my last completed game back in the beginning of november, when usually I am in many games at once, so that might have something to do with it.
It is a familiar disconnect for me. There is a style of scum-hunting that couldn't be more alien to me if the divergence in brain evolution coincided with the appearance of TiktaalikIn post 286, BROseidon wrote:Zoya head of Trine: I want your opinion on this post.In post 246, Grimgroove wrote:You have got to be kidding me.
How does that warrant a townread?
How is it critical thinking? He doesn't even have his facts straight.
We would have preferred something vastly different from that metric shitton of excuses and apologies, yes.In post 303, Who wrote:You would have preferred "Because I feel like being quiet"? (The short version of what I said)
Cat, outside the bag. Outside the bag, cat.In post 322, Cabd wrote: No you're scum because I pegged the fuck out of you.
I'm sure you'd like to know.In post 324, Who wrote:@CabdWhich head are you?
I note with trepidation that you aren't putting nearly as much into this game as you can.In post 367, Desperado wrote:
Someone asked for a reason why Who shouldn't be lynched. I was making it clear that I had no such reasons (and, thus, wouldn't object to lynching him).
What in any of that is sheeping?
Thank you for the scumclaim, who.