Micro 309: Triplicate Mafia (Game Over)

[Blackfish]

So, are we gonna majority FoS or just let the groups decide for themselves? I'd prefer the latter.

And uh, are we getting private threads? The opening post hinted at it

Why would you need a private thread if you are town?

[Blackfish]

So, are we gonna majority FoS or just let the groups decide for themselves? I'd prefer the latter.

And uh, are we getting private threads? The opening post hinted at it

Why would you need a private thread if you are town?

Why would I need one if I were scum?

I was wondering if the groups of 3 got a private forum but prolly not.

You'd need one if you were scum to talk to your scumbuddies obviously. The OP mentions that it is in lieu of QTs. Why would the groups of 3 get anything analogous to QTs? That doesn't make any sense.

[Blackfish]

But why assume that the groups of 3 get a QT?

[Blackfish]

I dunno, I saw 'this game is being used as a test case for private threads' and I just assumed.

But it said "in lieu" of QT's. QTs are generally used by scum to talk among themselves. Why make the assumption that town would receive them?

[Blackfish]

It's the fishes.
VOTE: Blackfish

Why would you assume that they are only for scum when the nature of the game (Town being divided into groups) implies that it could be for town as well?

Nothing about the nature of the game suggested that the three groups would have private communication. As far as I understood it, the group divisions are made solely for voting purposes and to help town with POE, with group members only being able to vote for themselves and town getting 2 confirmed townies when a mafia member is lynched. This I believe to counteract the mountainous effect of the game and provide a mechanic to help town in the absence of power roles. I assumed scum use the private threads instead of having a scum QT since that's what the OP implied. I am not following why I should think that the game implies town have private communication.

[Blackfish]

Tiershift, can you link me to a couple of your town and scum games?

[Blackfish]

Never mind. Found them.

[Blackfish]

I'm purposely townslipping, duh.

No, I missed that part on my first read. I see 'test private threads' and '3 groups of 3'. Now let's stop discussing this.

Midget, there's no need to fear a quickhammer, since it only ends when all 3 groups have hammered and until then you can change votes.

I am curious, what would you rather discuss instead?

[Blackfish]

LeMidget, why no comment on the discussion between me and Tiershift?

[Blackfish]

Yeah, I'd like to know what you think. Why RVS vote when plenty of discussion has taken place?

[Blackfish]

It's the fishes.
VOTE: Blackfish

Why would you assume that they are only for scum when the nature of the game (Town being divided into groups) implies that it could be for town as well?

Nothing about the nature of the game suggested that the three groups would have private communication. As far as I understood it, the group divisions are made solely for voting purposes and to help town with POE, with group members only being able to vote for themselves and town getting 2 confirmed townies when a mafia member is lynched. This I believe to counteract the mountainous effect of the game and provide a mechanic to help town in the absence of power roles. I assumed scum use the private threads instead of having a scum QT since that's what the OP implied. I am not following why I should think that the game implies town have private communication.

I'm not saying it should be assumed, I'm merely saying it is an easy mistake to make. Also, why would scum be stupid enough to ask publicly?

Scum are obviously not stupid enough to ask publicly why they haven't received their QT links and Tiershift asking for it was either a towntell (or a fake one). I wasn't sure enough which so I pushed him to see if he reacted in an alignment revealing way. His response was a little sarcastic and dismissive which bothered me so I checked to see if it was alignment indicative for him to react that way in his other games and found nothing. I have a slight town lean based on his trying to shut down the discussion but it is not strong.

As for your post, why did you jump in and answer for Tiershift before he had a chance to respond himself?

[Blackfish]

Up to my last post I thought Town. Now? This continued pushing is a little aggressive, and I'm not really sure whether that's playstyle or something more sinister. It's also a little weird that he's focused on LM's not commenting on it and didn't mention that I didn't.

Why did you find it weird?

I focused on LM because he RVS voted as if there was nothing better to discuss while ignoring the discussion that

had

taken place. Your posts came across as prioritizing your own scumhunting of Tiershift by asking him why he wanted the groups to discuss among themselves as opposed to majority decisions.

[Blackfish]

I wanna call Blackfish's overt pushing more town. Pushing out of the RVS I find is always good and gets discussion going, which is clearly has.

The phrasing of this post is odd. You "wanna" call my overt pushing more town? What does that mean? Does it mean that you want to but can't?

[Blackfish]

To be clear, I am proposing we more or less completely leave out cross group discussion until D2 and let each group kind of decide their own fate. This is because this will automatically put the scum at a disadvantage, I think, by keeping them from working together to influence the other groups. Any thoughts on this?

Leaving out cross group discussion also keeps the other townies from influencing the other groups which I don't like. Looking at things on a larger scale allows us to draw connections and establish relational tells among everyone so that when we are out of our groups, we have even more interactions to work with in addition to just the in-group interactions.

[Blackfish]

Because I cared far more about your response to my question than his response to yours.

They are not mutually exclusive. You could still have asked me a question after you saw Tiershift respond to mine. Or phrased it in a way that didn't already give him an answer.

[Blackfish]

On second thoughts, you probably couldn't. But I'd still like to know why you were uninterested in hearing what Tiershift had to say or where my questioning of him would lead us to. Your jump struck me as somewhat overeager.

[Blackfish]

I also want to know why you would like to mostly "stick within our groups." I think the optimal play is to have players interact with everyone and influence all lynches.

[Blackfish]

I had a similar response to him when I saw the thing about private topics, the only difference was that I was on my phone and quoting one section of the first post would have been a hassle.

Okay, I find it plausible but I wished you had let him answer.

Well personally I'm more confident on my read of people within group coconut than any other group

Why?

As regards "optimal play", I think that without the ability to vote for one another then normal (What everyone is used to analyzing) play will not occur, and we will not be able to effectively analyze what does go on.

We can hear the opinions of other players and allow them to influence the lynches and see where they lead. Constraining ourselves to just our groups feels like deliberately cutting off the amount of information we gain.

[Blackfish]

Interacting with other groups helps us influence the lynch happening in those groups. I don't understand any need to curtail that interaction in any way. The voting will obviously be made by the group members but that doesn't mean the others shouldn't tell them who to vote for and attempt to influence those votes. I find it a pro-scum strategy to limit it.

[Blackfish]

I like BRO's posts. All of them. So, that's my first solid townread that I have a lot of confidence behind.

[Blackfish]

I like BRO's posts. All of them. So, that's my first solid townread that I have a lot of confidence behind.

What do you like about them? Because I obviously disagree.

First, I found your post 42 odd but wasn't sure if it was just your playstyle or alignment indicative. In particular, you saying "interesting" to BC's townread on me and the "not attaching value judgment" phrase. I like that BRO picked up on it and the way he responded felt genuine. Second, I like his point about associative tells and his confidence in his scumhunting abilities. Tonally, he comes across as somewhat frustrated that most people aren't good scumhunters. It feels very natural and not like fake bravado. Third, him pointing out that RedCoyote was worried about a rather strange thing which mirrored what I thought too. Overall, his posts feel natural and I like his tone and content.

[Blackfish]

whoever said Blackfish was town for continuing to push a bullshit tell. That's who I'd be looking at as scum.

Why is this scummy?

[Blackfish]

I am not sure yet. Do you?

[Blackfish]

Are you an alt?

Yeah.

I haven't really looked into page 3 and the latter half of 2 yet so I don't know much about Who but I have a 65.89% townread on you, 18.67% scumread on you, and the other 15.44% in constantly in flux.

Why? And I'd like your thoughts on any other reads you have as well.

[Blackfish]

RedCoyote, can you explain what you mean by "forced presence?"

[Blackfish]

Do you think Blackfish's overt pushing is too much to the point of being scummy? Or maybe overzealous town?

I'm leaning overzealous town, but he is quickly picking some fights early in the game, which could lead to a decent sized distraction.

I don't like this post.

[Blackfish]

Do you think Blackfish's overt pushing is too much to the point of being scummy? Or maybe overzealous town?

I'm leaning overzealous town, but he is quickly picking some fights early in the game, which could lead to a decent sized distraction.

I don't like this post for several reasons.

The first is the hedging. You lean overzealous town on me but you also think that I could be scum. It feels like a whole lot of nothing.

The second is the content. How am I "

picking fights

" and "

leading to a distraction

?" At the point I was pushing the game forward, the only discussion in thread was what I generated to get us out of RVS. It wasn't like there was a ton of content that I trying to bury by creating pointless side arguments. Besides, how is pushing on people and questioning them a "

distraction

?" That's how the game is played.

The third is your phrasing of my actions. "

Picking fights early in the game

" as opposed to "

scumhunting, questioning people

", "

overzealous

" as opposed to "

pro-active

". You spin my actions in a negative way which is at odds with your townread on me. It feels more like you are trying to justify a scumread and strikes me as dissonant like you don't actually believe in your read but you think it is a read that you should have if you were town. (Calling the aggressive, active players town is a fairly common scum strategy).

Your townread on me overall feels slimy and wobbly. If you didn't think that I was town, there would be no reason to announce it. But, you say that I am town anyways (unnecessarily) despite the fact that you don't actually seem to have a read with any amount of confidence.

[Blackfish]

I am not sure yet. Do you?

I'd place a vote on this, especially given your alt-status, but I can't.

Other people in Blackfish's group, pls vote blackfish kthx.

Why do you find it scummy that I am uncertain about whether there is scum in our group and asked LeMidget about his own reads? Why does my being an alt have anything to do with it?

[Blackfish]

I don't want to reveal my main although I wouldn't mind if you still want it after the game.

Both scum and town try to control the lynches of the day. Why does that give you cause for concern? Would you expect town to lie down and not attempt to control who gets lynched?

[Blackfish]

Why not? He brings up an honest point. Why did you focus on the Private Thread thing for so long, anyway? What made you think it wasn't just nothing?

I think the answer is fairly obvious. I wanted to generate discussion, kickstart the game, force people to take positions, and hopefully develop alignment revealing information. It could have been nothing. I could have just sat around and been more passive. I just chose not to.

[Blackfish]

I don't want to reveal my main although I wouldn't mind if you still want it after the game.

Both scum and town try to control the lynches of the day. Why does that give you cause for concern? Would you expect town to lie down and not attempt to control who gets lynched?

I've seen it quite often that the loud player of the day either gets lynched or controls the lynch. When someone is being so aggressive, mafia have a good chance of getting them lynched if the loud player is town. They can also get the lynch with having very little, if any, flack coming their way.

This doesn't answer my question. Why do you find aggression and controlling the lynches of the day to be scum motivated behaviors. Aren't they things that both scum and town aim for?

[Blackfish]

GoodMorning, why is LeMidget town?

[Blackfish]

This doesn't answer my question. Why do you find aggression and controlling the lynches of the day to be scum motivated behaviors. Aren't they things that both scum and town aim for?

I find over-aggression to either be dangerous for a townie, as it could lead to an easy lynch that mafia could drive, or as mafia it could allow for mafia to have control over the day. Either way, I find over-aggression bad and I'm worried you're bordering on overly aggressive.

I disagree that mafia in general try to lynch aggressive townies as opposed to townread them but it really depends on who the scum are and some scum may try it but I can buy that you legitimately think that.

Why do you believe aggressive scum can control the lynch but not aggressive town?

[Blackfish]

GoodMorning, why is LeMidget town?

Because he's acting like it.

How so? He asked me a question to which the answer is obvious. He thought BC was honest. The post you quoted read fairly null to me.

[Blackfish]

Because there are two scum working together and the one town would be alone. It's simply power in numbers and I see an aggressive scum being able to control a lynch more than aggressive town.

Your explanation is somewhat simplistic and I again disagree but I think it is plausible that you as town could genuinely think that.

Can you provide a list of your reads?

[Blackfish]

Why do RedCoyote's reads feel "odd" and "forced?"

Also, I gather that you've played offsite. You don't seem to have any completed scumgames onsite but can you link me to a couple of your offsite games? Preferably one town and one scum game.

[Blackfish]

Also, can you explain your townread on BRO?

Do you agree with my points about him?

Do you think Who's quietness or LeMidget's numbers are alignment indicative?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "GM has been working nicely toward discussion."

[Blackfish]

You seem very inactive in the scumgame you linked. Can you link to one where you were more active?

[Blackfish]

My updated thoughts on BRO are in 77.

[Blackfish]

Okay, I have another solid townread: BC based on reading both games and his completed towngame onsite and analyzing his responses to my questioning. The things he is pointing out as scummy matches up with what he would find scummy as town. His thoughts about "loud" players being easy to lynch or controlling lynches checks out as well as his actual beliefs and is null at worst. His reactions to me overall feel town and what I'd expect from him as town. If you want me to elaborate on any part of my reasoning, let me know.

With strong townreads on BRO and BC, I am leaning towards wanting FF lynched out of their group but I'll be interested in hearing how he responds to all this and see if theirs is the all-town group.

[Blackfish]

@ Who, explain your reads please.

[Blackfish]

Feeling pretty good about FF being scum.

[Blackfish]

It came off to me as making noise about a non issue to appear active and in the process of scumhunting. I also don't really like it when people try to get town cred for pushing the game past rvs. Scum also has an advantage in doing that because it gives town less to go off of in regards to associative tells. This game is a little different but it focused the discussion on the pretty magicians assistant and we missed the trick being set up.

I explained why I pushed Tiershift: I wanted to see if he was faking towntells or if he genuinely made a mistake. By doing that, I generated discussion and pushed the game past RVS. I disagree that scum has an advantage in doing it. How does it cut off associative tells? In fact, by forcing people to comment on it, I increased the amount of information and associative tells that we gained. Putting a stop to RVS is objectively pro-town. I agree that scum may do it but the motivation is to blend in with the town by doing pro-town things, not to cut off associative tells.

We have no way of telling if the way you are acting is alignment indicative at all. At best this is a null tell and shouldn't have been used at all. The fact that you got town read for it is bullshit and suspect.

Firstly, read the thread. It was BipolarChemist who had townread me. You seem to have a scumread on the guy townreading me yet you barely even remember who it is.

Secondly, I disagree with your BC scumread. I've been active, scumhunting, asking questions, and pushing the game forward. If I were an objective outsider, I'd probably townread my slot pretty heavily. I think BC's leaning-town read on me makes sense from a town POV. Your posts are missing the depth of scumhunting that I saw in BipolarChemist's posts. Where as you focused on the fact that I disagreed with you on Tiershift, BipolarChemist looked at the bigger picture. He tried to get at my underlying motivation for acting the way I did speculating that I could be trying to control the lynch as either affiliation. He then wondered as to how and why scum would be able to control the lynch. He is trying to see if my actions line up more with town or scum. In being stuck on my initial question to Tiershift, you are missing the big picture.

Do you think Blackfish's overt pushing is too much to the point of being scummy? Or maybe overzealous town?

I'm leaning overzealous town, but he is quickly picking some fights early in the game, which could lead to a decent sized distraction.

I don't like this post.

I hope you don't do this often. It's a pet peeve of mine when people make an empty post like this. It allows the allusion of hunting by letting others fill in your blanks. If you don't like a post say why, makes things a bit harder as scum because it starts to pin them down.

1) BRO has made a similar post 101. You haven't commented on it at all. Why not?

2) It shows a lack of reading the thread. I explained what I didn't like about BC's post here in post 104. Did you miss it?

[Blackfish]

Blueberry Group

1. BipolarChemist - Town read
2. BROseidon - Town read
3. Formerfish - Scum read

I have a moderately strong town read on BRO, a very strong townread on BC, and a moderately strong scum read on Formerfish. This is the group I feel most confident about. BRO, BC, thoughts about that?

[Blackfish]

Um, at this stage in the game, I'd like to ask Blackfish to put his vote on Who. I'm fairly certain that you can unvote even if there's a lynch until all three lynches are satisfied.

I am not confident about our group yet although I am leaning towards it being Who as well.

[Blackfish]

I am not sure yet. Do you?

I'd place a vote on this, especially given your alt-status, but I can't.

Other people in Blackfish's group, pls vote blackfish kthx.

Me likes

What do you like about it?

[Blackfish]

Because i thought along the same lines.

Okay, why do you find it scummy that I am uncertain about whether there is scum in our group and asked LeMidget about his own reads? Why does my being an alt have anything to do with it?

[Blackfish]

Yeah, I get that you don't like it considering you made it obvious. My question is why.

[Blackfish]

I am not sure yet. Do you?

I'd place a vote on this,

especially given your alt-status

, but I can't.

Other people in Blackfish's group, pls vote blackfish kthx.

Me likes

[/quote]
You tell me.

[Blackfish]

And I did answer the question. I told him I wasn't sure. Would you rather I pretend to be certain when I am not?

[Blackfish]

Your justification for sharing the opinion is falling apart. I am not hard to talk you, I am asking you why you share the opinion. It should be fairly easy to justify if you are town. Instead, all of your responses have been very evasive.

1) BRO claims that (a) not being sure whether there is scum in my group and asking LeMidget for his opinion is scummy and (b) especially so since I am an alt.

2) You agree with it.

3) I ask you why you think it is scummy and why being an alt has anything to do with it.

4) You now claim that being an alt has nothing to do with it implying you don't fully agree with BRO's post. You are acting as though I am the one that brought forth the alt stuff. But, I'll be charitable and assume that you didn't think much of BRO's alt accusation and what you were agreeing with was just part (a) above.

5) Your first instinct is to be evasive. You claim "post 80 just sucked" without explaining why.

6) After being pushed on it, you claim, I haven't answered the question, which I have.

7) When I continue to ask why you find uncertainty scummy, you are now refusing to discuss it because you don't seem to be able to justify what you agree with. If you are town, this shouldn't be hard and there is no need to be evasive.

[Blackfish]

Yeah, okay I considered that you may not have agreed with the alt part so I'm putting that aside.

Why do find "bouncing back" after answering a question scummy? Why shouldn't I ask Tiershift his own opinion of whether he thinks there is a scum in the group? That would help me get a better read on him later on in the game by analyzing the positions he takes now. Considering he is my group, getting a read on him is crucial as I need to decide which of my groupmates to vote for.

[Blackfish]

*LeMidget, not Tiershift.

[Blackfish]

You are being evasive again. Your dislike of talking to me feels manufactured. My question was quite simple and useful. Why do you find "bouncing back" scummy? You still haven't answered it and if you are town, I don't understand why you are unable to justify it.

[Blackfish]

I agreed with the spirit of the post, not necessarily with the alt part.
It's not the uncertainty that I find scummy, but the bouncing back.

It's nothing major.

I didn't quote the post to show you were scummy, but to show why I thought bro was town.

I also don't like the "It's nothing major" part here. It feels like you are trying to downplay your read instead of justifying it.

[Blackfish]

How is answering a question saying that I don't know and asking the same question to the original questioner evasive? Especially when it isn't something that I can give a yes or no answer to if I genuinely don't know.

[Blackfish]

I've rarely seen anyone be this evasive before. Look, if you were bullshitting a read because you were skimming or weren't really thinking about BRO's post while you quoted him, or misunderstood it, that's fine. Just say exactly what you were thinking and how you misread it. I am not going to hold it against you if you misinterpreted something while you skimmed through the game. But for fucks sake, stop dodging my questions and trying so hard to brush it under the rug because it makes you look scummier and scummier. I want to see your thought process here and I don't really care if you made a mistake and own up to it. Did you skim through my post, miss my answer to LeMidget and thought that I had neglected to give an answer and found my post off for that reason? Take me through your thought process here.

[Blackfish]

Would you rather I pretend to be certain when I am not?

I've use these kinds of passive-aggressive, emotionally charged questions as scum before. I don't anymore, because I think they look scummy, especially when they're done poorly. This is a good example of that.

Okay, cool?

You are missing the point though.

[Blackfish]

The point you are missing is that Tiershift claimed that me being unsure is scummy. If I actually am unsure, why would it be scummy? That's what I want to know from him? Wouldn't you like to know? He's in your group after all. Your focus is off. How I make my point is not the issue here and the question wasn't rhetorical.

[Blackfish]

Also, you have

nothing

to say about how Tiershift is avoiding my questions?

[Blackfish]

Your group wants to hang you RedCoyote. I didn't get the scum feel from you that your other groupmates did and I think so far you've been suspected for shit reasons. I planned to expose the scum in your group and convince your other group member to not stupid lynch you. Convince me I wasn't wrong. Get your head in the game and form coherent thoughts rather than isolated, irrelevant ones.

[Blackfish]

Also, you have

nothing

to say about how Tiershift is avoiding my questions?

This is the focus of the conversation. I want your opinion on it.

[Blackfish]

You are STILL not focusing on Tiershift. What do you think about the fact that he avoided my questions?

[Blackfish]

Tiershift is obviously VI town.

[Blackfish]

I can buy that he skimmed through the posts initially and didn't like being called out on it and made to explain his reads. I feel hiding the reads came more out of sense of protecting his ego rather than him being scum.

[Blackfish]

This is a read which I found fairly stupid.

It is actually not. His read took into account the big picture whereas some people's reads (Formerfish's for instance) involved missing the forest for the trees.

[Blackfish]

Formerfish and RedCoyote are the likeliest scumteam. Who is the most likely scum in our group if there is one.

[Blackfish]

Hmm ok you are probably town even though some of your earlier reads/plans are really stupid

Uhh thanks...I guess -.-

I don't believe I stated any earlier reads, could you elaborate on this?

I'm pretty sure I dislike talking to you and will refrain from doing so unless you ask useful questions.

I don't blame you for saying this, as it is quite annoying. After last page, Blackfish needs to calm the fuck down. Tiershift is pretty obviously antagonizing you on purpose.

I planned to expose the scum in your group

By the way, you want to comment on how it is you intend to expose the scum in my group given that one of the groups consist of three townies? But you know that our group has one scum in it, yes?

This is one of the (very) few good points RC's made this game. BF, which group do you think is all town?

There is nothing great about that point. It is just semantics.

[Blackfish]

I think gm is not scum so I wanna lynch RC in A
FF doesn't give me townvibes in B
Not sure yet if BF or Who for C

The group without scum is most likely A since I have two townish reads there.

Pretty much still standing.

P-edit: lololololol no Mr. Inconsistent.

This is a very odd reaction. Am I wrong about you being town?

[Blackfish]

No. But you are welcome to continue bitching about it.

[Blackfish]

So, GM and RedCoyote are likely going to crossvote which is fine with me.

Now, are you going to be the VI and vote GM or be a smart man and vote RedCoyote?

[Blackfish]

Go on Tiershift, tell me. Did RedCoyote save your fragile ego from me shattering it by calling you on your bullshit? Is that why you like him? Is that why you are going to lynch GM? Because let me tell you: mafia is a game of manipulation. Scum manipulate town all the time. If two townies (you and me) were arguing, there is absolutely no way a rational person would look at our argument and side with you. That's because you were being evasive as hell. Your desire to protect your dignity came across like you were hiding something. Town can easily mistake it for scum.

RedCoyote came in, ignored our argument and picked up on a really, really irrelevant thing. Town doesn't do that. Scum attempting to manipulate would do it. And now the big question: are you capable of seeing past your ego into someone manipulating you? Or are you going to fall head over heel for the manipulation? The answer determines your VI status.

[Blackfish]

Blackfish, for someone who's consistently pointing out where people's language in other posts makes them appear scummy, you didn't catch that that was what I latched onto in post 80.

Why is that.

I don't think my language is "off" or "scummy."

[Blackfish]

And I don't find anything wrong with my phrasing. What do you think of Formerfish not commenting on your post while making a big deal out of the one where I said I didn't like BC's post? Similar things but he only commented on one, not to mention I explained it later but you didn't until now.

[Blackfish]

More big one-shot posts.

This is actually a pretty kick-ass scumtell. Scum

love

posting infrequent walls. It makes them appear helpful, more analytical, less involved in conflict, and less likely to get lynched. Well, unless town is smart enough to pick up on that. If they are dumb enough to continue attempting to lynch those they are in conflict with, it provides scum with an easy way out. Even some well-known players are know to do it. Consider Llamafluff (Rainbowdash). He walls a lot more as scum infrequently whereas when town, he posts lots of shorter, inquisitive posts.

[Blackfish]

No, the reason is that I'm town and I have two townish reads in the group. I use the fact that I'm town, combined with having two townish reads to come to the conclusion that the most likely group to be all town is A. If I were to use solely the fact that I'm town, that would give me a 3/7th chance my group was all town, which isn't too much.

Also, the Bill Clinton reference is hilarious, even though I'm not sure it actually works.

I understand why you would think that. No offense but you are kind of an idiot. You are scummy. Coyote calling you town is scummy. GM is meh. The reasons you are townreading them for are dumb and not actual reasons to townread someone. I gave up trying to get scum lynched out of your group though but I am very, very happy one of you get to die today because you all feel like scumfucks, at least two of you do so it is great that you can't avoid a lynch and bring all your group members forward. It makes me feel so happy that one of you dies. Fingers crossed I hope it is one of you or Coyote.

[Blackfish]

I don't have anything else to say and I feel somewhat behind in my promise to Tiershift that I'll make up half the posts in the thread. Right now, I only have 77 out of 218.

Anything else you want me to add, scumfuck?

[Blackfish]

Who do you think is scum, Coyote?

[Blackfish]

It's pretty cool that you know the reasons for my reads are dumb, without me actually having stated them.

HAHAHA. Look at you! You are like a confused bottlenose dolphin as you flap around wondering how I know why are reading RedCoyote town. I'll let you have 3 guesses before I tell you.

[Blackfish]

Post what you think are snappy retorts all you want. Your curiosity will not be quenched until you make those guesses.

[Blackfish]

The game is a lot more fun after I stopped being anal about getting all the responses to my questions and evaluating whether a player is scum or town, and deciding to be a counter-dick to Tiershift's dickishness. The initial frustration came from trying too hard.

[Blackfish]

Some of you guys are actual idiots though. I am obvtown but you people are acting like I am hard to get a read on. It is amusing.

[Blackfish]

Tiershift, let me know the next time you /in for a game. I'd like to be in it as well.

[Blackfish]

Okay, but seriously,

Formerfish is the scum in his group. A lot of his responses don't really flow logically and feel opportunistic. He didn't question BRO when BRO didn't explain his suspicion of me but questioned me when I didn't explain my suspicion of BC. It is hypocrisy/double standards/whatever goodmorning wants to call it. He also posts infrequent walls which is a standard scum tactic and now he is trying to justify it with bullshit meta arguments. I don't care about his meta. I care about how his actions are scum-motivated in this game.

BROseidon is town. Yes, I am let down by him. Yes, I expected a lot better when he said that he was going to carry the town. I didn't expect him to suspect me which is anal-shit because I am obvtown. I didn't expect him to attack me based on language. Yes, it is dumb. You know the feeling when you go out with someone for a first time with knowledge that they work for the FBI? Later on over dinner, you learn that they are a janitor? and when you felt let down, you complain "but you said you work for the FBI, waah, waahh." And then he responds that he is the janitor for the FBI. BROseidon is town.

BC is town. The way he responded to my questions and didn't whine about being questioned shows that he had nothing to hide. His absurd beliefs all make sense. His belief that aggressive town can be lynched and aggressive scum control the day made sense as what he would believe. His belief that I was town for getting out of RVS looks at the big picture that Formerfish is missing. Formerdish's claim that BC is scum is bad.

FORMER is the scum in the first group.

GoodMorning doesn't respond to my question that LeMidget is town. She ignores large parts of the game. She prances around responding just to the parts that she wants to respond to and thinks she is the queen of the game. This is town. Irritating, but town. Annoying, but town, town, townie, town.

Tiershift is someone who's had his ego shattered this game and is crawling around trying to pick up the pieces. He bullshitted a read and got called out on it. He couldn't bring himself to admit that the read was bullshit. So, he tried to justify it. He couldn't. He didn't like me exposing that he couldn't justify it. So he changed his strategy and said he doesn't want to talk to me, boo hoo. But all his hurt feelings and his fake bluster are town. VI town.

The Great Red Coyote is scum. He ignored Tiershift's evasiveness and chose to ask me how I know there is scum in his group. What a fucking dumb question? And there is his dumb idea of "let's scumhunt within our groups!" RedCoyote is scum. He is the scummiest scum in the world. He is like a glaring red button with Scummy McScumfuck written all over it. Kiiilll hiiiimmm.

COYOTE is the scum in this group.

LeMidget hasn't done anything to make me think he is town or scum but that's okay. He usually doesn't. His not knowing whether I am scum and being unsure is hahaha. He shouldn't be. The last few pages should cement in his head that I am town.

Who's that? Maybe town, maybe scum. If there is scum in this group, it is Who.

I am town. I propelled this game out of RVS with my fins. I questioned people. I evaluated their responses. I waved townreads and scumreads. I put together the pieces of this game like Rube Goldberg. People even thinking I could be scum are out of their flippers. How could anyone STILL think that I could be scum????

That's it. Let's start voting and get this whaleshit done. I'll vote last.

[Blackfish]

Tiershift, let me know the next time you /in for a game. I'd like to be in it as well.

[Blackfish]

Tiershift, would you really, really like to know how I know why you are townreading Coyote? CmonTiershift. I'll tell you.

[Blackfish]

It is for the same reason that you townread Formerfish. They stoked your ego. They didn't question you or made you feel like a substandard human being. They defended you. They attacked your attacker. You felt good about it. That's why you are townreading them. You associate good feelings with town.When you are made to feel like a shit human being, you scumread the player doing so. It is quite obvious. That's how I knew your reasons fpor townreading RedCoyote. It was the same reason you had for townreading Former. Get it now?

[Blackfish]

So, are you going to vote GM, Tiershift? Do you actually, actually believe she could be the mafia?

[Blackfish]

Only 88 out of 239 posts. I am falling behind on my promise to Tiershit that I'll make up half the posts in the game.

[Blackfish]

Blackfish, for someone who's consistently pointing out where people's language in other posts makes them appear scummy, you didn't catch that that was what I latched onto in post 80.

Why is that.

I don't think my language is "off" or "scummy."

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Compare your language with the above statement and tell me if you notice anything.

Yeah, what the hell is this Mr. BROseidon? You wanna know the difference?

Clinton didn't use a contraction. "I did not have"

I didn't use a contraction. "I don't think"

I didn't say "I did not think"

So you should actually be townreading me for this.

[Blackfish]

I don't even know anymore.

How your mind works is a mystery to me. You thought I was town. Yet, when I post a mountain of analysis detailing why who are scum and who are town and scumhunt some more, you suddenly "don't know anymore?" It is amusing. If anything that should have made you more certain, not less that I was town. Your mind works in weird and unusual ways. Tell me what goes on inside it and maybe my massive whale brain can understand it.

[Blackfish]

This post is troubling.

Oh, please do tell my big whale blowhole why that post is troubling. If you are town, it shouldn't be. It is merely a town player calling himself obvtown. What's so troubling about it? Have you never seen one like it before? Have you seen scum post like that before?

[Blackfish]

Perhaps if you stopped spamposting and actually read the game...

I have read the game. Nobody has read the game more closely than I have. I am posting a ton but don't think for a moment that I don't care about the game. I care more than anyone else and I spent more time trying to find the scum than anybody else has. Look at the way I questioned BC and how I eventually got a townread on him. Look at the way I grilled Tiershit and found out that he was a town VI. Please don't say that I am spamposting and not reading the game. I agree with you that RedCoyote is the scum in your group. I also think that Formerfish is the other scum. What say you, my bad morning?

[Blackfish]

And to tell you how I know he's acting like it - I'm rather familiar with his meta.

In particular, precisely what is it that make you think that he is town? I think you are town of course but give me more information to help me make the right decision. Tell me why I should vote Who and not him. If I am convinced, I'll do as you wish.

[Blackfish]

Again, perhaps if you stopped spamposting...
Also, do tell what I "ignored."

I will not stop posting. Thou shalt not silence town voices by accusing them of spamming so you can have an easier scum victory.

You have ignored my question as to what LeMidget is town for. I was not blown away by the goldfish-like response that you gave and had an intense desire to turn you upside down, induce tonic immobility and prod you until you gave an appropriate answer. But let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we? As long as you give me a good reason why I should not vote him, I will follow your wishes.

[Blackfish]

Do you expect me to respond to things I find boring? Un-useful? Non-indicative? Non-content? You're damn right I respond to what I want to respond to.
Unless this was about me "not responding to [your] question that LM is town," because I've already demonstrated that I did and you should read better.

I am very happy that I frustrated and pissed you off. This is more proof that you are town. Thank you for reacting like this and increasing my confidence that RedCoyote is the big bad scumfuck in your group.

[Blackfish]

I don't know whether or not we do. The other possibility is that Coconut is lacking. Blueberry definitely has Scum, and that Scum is probably BRO.

Most of the strange ones are in your exchanges with Blackfish. Strange doesn't have to equal Scum but it does equal suspicious. RC is more probably Scum than you are because most of your posts are not strange and most of his posts are not comforting.

Yes. This is the right way to go.

[Blackfish]

Blackfish, I don't know anymore because your personality in this game seems to have changed significantly, at least to me anyways. This is kinda what I meant in that "look for character change" bit. Since I can unvote later, I'm gonna
UNVOTE: Who
VOTE: Blackfish

Blackfish, get my vote off you. I really don't want to vote you so.

It is irrelevant who you vote for. Tell this to someone who cares. The scum are RedCoyote and Formerfish. I would like them drowned in the cold waters of the North Pacific.

The character change is that I stopped being over-anal about having my questions answered. It is a dumb reason to suspect me since if I was scum, I'd be scum from the start.

[Blackfish]

BROseidon is town. Yes, I am let down by him. Yes, I expected a lot better when he said that he was going to carry the town. I didn't expect him to suspect me which is anal-shit because I am obvtown. I didn't expect him to attack me based on language. Yes, it is dumb. You know the feeling when you go out with someone for a first time with knowledge that they work for the FBI? Later on over dinner, you learn that they are a janitor? and when you felt let down, you complain "but you said you work for the FBI, waah, waahh." And then he responds that he is the janitor for the FBI. BROseidon is town.

Finals suck :/

How does finals sucking explain you sucking? I may have changed my mind on you/Fish. Your reads are stupidly demarcated. The only person you are sure of is scum is me? You are null on Formerfish? Oh, give me a fucking seal to eat. You are unbelievable. Points towards you being scum.

[Blackfish]

Actually, being real about it for a second, I'm not seeing the same kind of distancing from Blackfish as from Clinton.

read 231

Yes, I said I was town. Do you find it scummy?

[Blackfish]

"I am not sure yet"

"I'm not sure"

One of those is the uncontracted form. The other is the one you used.

Whaleshit.

[Blackfish]

Not having other wagons to work with is annoying me.

{RC, GM, // Tier}

{/FF/, BC}

{Blackfish, /Who/, Midget}

scum/null/town

VOTE: FF

I don't even know if I want to push your lynch or Formerfish's here.

[Blackfish]

Not scum.

I'm having trouble staying caught up because all I have is my phone right now. My landlord is redoing our floors and we are without our WiFi.

I did notice that black fish disregarded my meta when it didn't suit his narrative. So there's that.

Stop stupid-tunneling. BRO just voted you. What do you think of that?

[Blackfish]

Blackfish, you're being an asshole.

Doesn't make me scum. If I am being an asshole, that makes me an asshole. No point in mentioning it. It is alignment-neutral.

[Blackfish]

FF doesn't say much, and when he does it's a lot. BRO entertains me and I believe he's being helpful. I'm willing to also vote FF, but I'm in no rush yet.

Are you sure? I find FF scummy but BRO is starting to look like a dead scum seal. But FF isn't a bad idea since he is a lurksack. Think about this some more.

[Blackfish]

I don't like LeMidget's vote on Blackfish, it seems a little too opportunistic, but Blackfish is annoying and it's a toss-up in the group anyways.

I'm not sure what you people see GM doing that's so scummy. I find RC much more so, but my mind has been made up there for days.

I know. It does look opportunistic. I still lean towards there being no scum in our group though. It is RC and one of FF/Bro.

[Blackfish]

VOTE: Blackfish

Blackfish, get my vote off you. I really don't want to vote you so.

Then why are you voting for him if you don't want to? If you have a stronger scumread on Who, wouldn't that be your better choice?

Good point. His response is dumb.

[Blackfish]

Why do you want to vote last? This seems fairly scummy to me, allowing yourself to gauge the other votes before voting yourself.

It is interesting that you find it scummy. It is also irrelevant. There is only one person in our group that is going to get lynched. It is me. If I thought there was scum in our group, I would fight it. Right now, I don't see the point.

[Blackfish]

Dick.

What is the point of this statement?

[Blackfish]

I don't even know anymore.

First time I read this, I didn't like it, but then I realized I feel the exact same way. Confusion Buddies <3

Interestingly enough, I still don't like it.

[Blackfish]

I never said it made you scum, but I think it needs mentioning.

But you are still being unnecessarily antagonistic and caustic. Like a poison, you are pointing out that I am being an asshole when you don't have to and when it has nothing to do with my affiliation.

[Blackfish]

The reason why I'm voting Blackfish is because he is being an asshole. Combine this with the fact that what he is doing now and his personality towards the game has changed considering the beginning of the game, and that scum have Daytalk, Blackfish is starting to look more scummy.

Yes, I want him to be town. But I'm starting to think otherwise. Yay confusion buddehs.

p-edit: 270 looks slightly more town but still.

I just disproved your stupid personality change theory. If I am scum, I would have been scum from the start. Like, who are you kidding, buddy?

[Blackfish]

Unless you are yet another Llama alt, calling yourself obvtown makes me feel like you're not.

That is a shit reason to call someone scum.

[Blackfish]

Why is my agreeing or not agreeing with your reads relevant?

How is it not? Isn't the point of playing mafia to convince other townies to lynch scum? I want you to lynch Coyote. I also need you to take care of yourself and not get mislynched. I also need you to not vote Tiershift because he is town. It is all relevant.

[Blackfish]

It's entirely meta and I don't expect it to convince you, as it's only experiential for me and cold meta doesn't do much for anyone.

I am disappointed that you make no effort to get me to hammer (in your mind) scum over town. Assuming at that time I had to hammer one of them. Still irrelevant now. I doubt either of them are scum.

[Blackfish]

I'm not completely worried about it right now. I think that we have plenty of time for me yo start posting a bit more and showing off my true colors.

Why is me calling out your affinity for meta with other players, but disregard for mine considered tunneling? I think that is quite a misrep considering how many other players you've asked for prior games from, while staying hidden yourself. Do you consider yourself a meta diver, or was asking for the others just for show? When do you build cases off of meta and when do you ignore it?

One of our groups is all town. That group is bound to end up spiraling into a deep pit of paranoia, that seems inevitable given the situation. Scum would be bestsuited to sow seeds of mistrust with the all town group. It seems to me like that is what you are trying to do with our group blackie.

I am not into meta diving but if someone does something that looks scummy that they do as town all the time, I'd be a fool not to take it into consideration.

[Blackfish]

Is lurking alignment indicative to you blackie?

That's not something I am going to tell you now, am I?

[Blackfish]

BF: I called you a dick and an asshole after you called people 'actual idiots'. That's such a dickish thing to say. The point where players want you out of a game for being an annoying asshole should really tell you something. No these aren't pertinent points, I just am very annoyed by you.

Grow a thicker skin.

THIS.



IS.



MAFIA.

[Blackfish]

The reason why I'm voting Blackfish is because he is being an asshole. Combine this with the fact that what he is doing now and his personality towards the game has changed considering the beginning of the game, and that scum have Daytalk, Blackfish is starting to look more scummy.

Yes, I want him to be town. But I'm starting to think otherwise. Yay confusion buddehs.

p-edit: 270 looks slightly more town but still.

I just disproved your stupid personality change theory. If I am scum, I would have been scum from the start. Like, who are you kidding, buddy?

Nononononono, I said to look for personality change as in the daytalk between scum would make scum change their style a bit. And you have.

Nothing that you said makes any sense whatsoever.

[Blackfish]

Why are you spamming the thread by breaking one post apart into 3 separate replies?

People don't read walls. I hate walls myself.

[Blackfish]

I'll be able to post more tomorrow, but the idea that my infrequent posts are indicative of scum me is ridiculous. Look at my town games as myself and Messiah Complex and you'll see that's how I play. I don't get a chance to get on all that often so most of my posts are largely catch ups. Blackfish, you seem to be huge on meta, how'd you miss that in mine?

And why do I need to buddy up to someone who saw the same thing wrong with a post? I don't need to suck anyone off because we share a similar thought. Soagain take that scum tell and shove it.

But FF, do this for me: Link me to at least two relevant games where you have done this as town and I will look over them and compare.

[Blackfish]

This is also just a game, there's no need to call people idiots and mean it.

Who said I meant it?

[Blackfish]

Some of you guys are actual idiots though.

This sure as hell sounds like you mean it to me.

Nope. Just annoyance. But sorry.

[Blackfish]

Hahahahahahahohohoheeheeheeheeheee. Nice post scumbag.

[Blackfish]

Knock this guy out cold for me GoodMorning.

[Blackfish]

Hell, I'd rather goodmorning and Tier vote me than let the Mafia call the shot and cause that much more chaos going into D2 ("Why was player X left alive?" "Are they mafia?"

You heard the scumbag, GM and Tiershift. Let's give him the votes he deserves.

[Blackfish]

Wait, one more post. BC, you missed my question about Who.

Oh, did he? You know what I find scummy here? The "wait, one more post" at the beginning of the post. Why say it? Why not just... post. Why so self conscious about how many posts you make? It seems verrrry scum-motivated.

[Blackfish]

Alright, lady and gentlemen, we're running up on the deadline here. I think I want to quote one of the Mod's game rules for emphasis:

Everybody can read the rules, scumbag.

[Blackfish]

DIE SCUMBAG DIE

[Blackfish]

Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote! Vote!

[Blackfish]

Why are you being such a dim person, GoodMoorning? You are town. Tiershit is town. Who does that leave? 1+1=2. It is not hard.

[Blackfish]

Just look at yourself. The big bad Coyote happily voted you and is now posting shit about how we need a lynch now or omigod mafia choose the lynch! and you are sitting here like a dimmed out lightbulb saying you don't want to vote anyone in your group!!!!

[Blackfish]

BROseidon is sucking worse than finals should make one suck. He is the other scum.

[Blackfish]

I am quite a bright killer whale so yes. You are saying there isn't scum in your group. But Red coyote is scum, scum, scum. Because he is scum, there is scum in your group>

[Blackfish]

C'mon good. Use your brain. Red Coyote voted for you. HE doesn't care.

And yet,

you pussyfoot around

too afraid

to cast your vote

and put

the scumbag to rest.

[Blackfish]

BROseidon is sucking worse than finals should make one suck. He is the other scum.

Don't we agree here GoodMorning? Don't we?

[Blackfish]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Blackfish]

Blackfish, remember that you're the only player that has done something objectively scummy (admitting knowledge of which groups have scum).

Omg, you are joking, right. Even

you

can't be that stupid unless you are scum. I didn't do anything objectively scummy. I said there was scum in your group because you all seemed scummy and I would be very astonished if you all turned out to be town.

[Blackfish]

(admitting knowledge of which groups have scum)

"Admitting knowledge?" HAHAHA. You are not even trying because you know I am stuck with two lugnuts who are not even going to play this game.

[Blackfish]

I sympathize, goodmorning. I appreciate you not stooping to Blackfish's browbeating and feeling compelled to vote on the basis of his bullying. That said, I recognize that it's practically in your best interests to cross vote me at some point (unless your prepared to try and sell me on Tierscum, which I haven't picked up on at all).

HAHAHAHOHOHO. You are amazingly amusing, Mr. Coyote.

There is no browbeating here but + scumpoints for trying to paint me as scum to GoodMorning and discouraging her from voting you while looking like you are encouraging her. Die scumfuck die.

She's going to vote you whether you like it or not.

[Blackfish]

(unless your prepared to try and sell me on Tierscum, which I haven't picked up on at all).

OHO, look at this shit. "I don't want to attack Tier but if you want to so he OMGUSes you, be my guest."

[Blackfish]

DIE NOW SCUMFUCK. DIE DIE DIE.

[Blackfish]

You don't even have a response to my smothering all your arguments. Is this an admission of defeat, RedCoyote?

[Blackfish]

FF vote me already, one of us is getting lynched out of our group.

I'm fine with going down so long as it's with RC and BF.

Indeed! I'm fine with going down so long as it's with RC and BROseidon. What in the big blue ocean are we waiting for? Let's get those votes on me and the two scumfucks.

[Blackfish]

I sympathize, goodmorning. I appreciate you not stooping to Blackfish's browbeating and feeling compelled to vote on the basis of his bullying. That said, I recognize that it's practically in your best interests to cross vote me at some point (unless your prepared to try and sell me on Tierscum, which I haven't picked up on at all).

Such sympathying.

Very town.

Wait...

Question is whether RC is going for the GM lynch, trying to distance from his buddy while accepting his inevitable lynch, or some combo thereof.

The scumteam isn't me and Coyote, you humongous pile of whale blubber. It is you and Coyote.

[Blackfish]

GoodMorning, Tiershit, you got epically played. Tiershift, you are a serious dumbass aren't you? You were asked by RedCoyote to hammer - you didn't. You waited for the unvote and died in Coyote's place. Idiot.

Formerfish, you are pathetic for letting BROseidon get away and dying in his place. Another idiot.

As for me, sure I didn't bother to defend myself but it isn't like anyone was yelling at me about how obvscum LeMidget or Who are and how I should be trying to lynch one of them. Bet you dollars to donuts all three lynches are town. Coyote's head should be dunked in the Pacific. BROseidon should die when he is writing the finals that made him suck so much. The irony would be nice. Good luck town.

[Blackfish]

Heaven help me if I just talked myself out of a scum lynch, but I think goodmorning is more likely to be town that Tier is at this point. The straw that broke the camel's back was Tier being unwilling to hammer. He had read enough in this game to be able to decide between us at that point.

Ugh, I think my group is all town anyway though, so, on that note, I guess it doesn't really matter.

VOTE: TierShift

WHAT!?!? Tiershift is scum because he refused to quickhammer you? How the fuck is this town? Lynch this scumbag.

Tiershift not hammering actually makes him more town than scum. It is not a big tell either way but he wanted to take his time and look at his options.