Micro 369 - Diamond Shreddies (Game Over)

[Ki-Gi]

Hello everyone. Just read the thread at a rather brisk pace and here are my thoughts. Until someone goes against ZZZX's roleclaim, he is essentially a confirmed town (Mafia, I know) in my eyes. As for reads, I have semi-neutral reads on most of you but one read strongly leans scum, and that's Jet Skiies. Simply put, lurkers are scum, and Jet has even tried to excuse himself for lurking (Post #145). Post #140 looks to me like Jet Skiies knows that ZZZX is a confused, likely-to-be-lynched town so by defending him he'll gain the town's trust when ZZZX flips town after a lynch. The reason it seems this way is because the defense is so poor. Who defends an OMGUS? That's one of Jet's few posts where he actually tries to explain his actions, and that's out of a low post count anyway. I'll post all of my reads after a more thorough read of the thread but for now...

VOTE:

Jet Skiies

[Ki-Gi]

Okay I'm going to avoid pure neutral reads because those are as good as not being in the game. I went over Jet Skiies earlier, so here's the rest.

BlueBloodedToffee - Neutral Leaning Scum
As gameplay pointed out, it is rather strange to me that BBT made a serious response to an RVS vote from kyndy. That could mean he's trying to over-assert himself as a scumhunter. And to make matters worse, he's maintained that over-assertive attitude for the entirety of the game thus far. However, the reason he's overall a neutral read for me is that this could easily be an aspect of his regular play style that I haven't been accustomed to yet. If it is, I'll back down for the time being. But right now I don't think that's the case.

Hiraki - Neutral Leaning Town
I think the early vote for Square Sheddies based on a genuinely confused post was rather poor logic (apologies if it was a joke) but for the most part I'm getting a fairly town read from Hiraki. My only concern is his stubbornness to not accept that this is in fact a potentially confusing game setup-wise, but I think that's more telling of his character than his alignment. For the majority of the thread he's been scumhunting pretty well in my opinion.

gameplay506 - Town

gameplay has been actively scumhunting and bringing up good points for the game so far, but coming across as more genuine than BBT.

Square Sheddies - Neutral Leaning Town

Early on SS was coming off as a bit forced to some, but I think their defenses were well-composed (Post #61) SS and Hiraki seem like two townie roles overreacting regarding a false scumtell. This is my first game with a "Hydra", so SS is a bit hard to read for me.

ZZZX - Town

To be fair, if it weren't for the roleclaim, ZZZX would come off as a noob scum to me, and the best scum read. However, he does have the roleclaim, and no one has countered it. Not to mention that judging by his posts it would seem to risky for him to roleclaim so early if he was scum, even given that he was getting a few votes.

kyndy101 - Scum

First off, kyndy gets on board the SS bandwagon way too easily and with no input (Post #69). Just "eh seems like a good lynch". As SS pointed out right after, the game had pretty much just started and kyndy made it out like there was little time left in Day 1. I don't like that one bit, and I see gameplay didn't either on the next page (Post #76). Since then she hasn't done much to grind my gears but that vote early on was enough.

BBMolla - Neutral Leaning Scum

There isn't much to go off of. Obviously. Therefore I'm going to keep this at Neutral Leaning Scum until there is something to go off of.

[Ki-Gi]

Hello everyone. Just read the thread at a rather brisk pace and here are my thoughts. Until someone goes against ZZZX's roleclaim, he is essentially a confirmed town (Mafia, I know) in my eyes. As for reads, I have semi-neutral reads on most of you but one read strongly leans scum, and that's Jet Skiies. Simply put, lurkers are scum, and Jet has even tried to excuse himself for lurking (Post #145). Post #140 looks to me like Jet Skiies knows that ZZZX is a confused, likely-to-be-lynched town so by defending him he'll gain the town's trust when ZZZX flips town after a lynch. The reason it seems this way is because the defense is so poor. Who defends an OMGUS? That's one of Jet's few posts where he actually tries to explain his actions, and that's out of a low post count anyway. I'll post all of my reads after a more thorough read of the thread but for now...

VOTE:

Jet Skiies

Care to explain why? I also find it peculiar that you find it bad yet were clearly online when I posted it and said nothing "bad" about it.

HELLO? DOES ANYONE ELSE FIND THIS BAD?


- Bins

Me! I do, I do!

[Ki-Gi]

Quote fuckup, my apologies. My response is in SS's quote, haha.

[Ki-Gi]

Do you have reads on Jet Skiies?

Nah, gut feeling. I didn't like SNS either. It makes me excited.

- Bins

This comes off as weird to me because the post you called out as bad was almost entirely a Jet Skiies read. Why would I copy that into my reads list when it's already there? You say it's just a gut feeling here but shortly afterwards you bring up a specific reason why you didn't like it. Did you even read my first post when you called it out or did you just call it out?

[Ki-Gi]

I could explain why but you've just addressed one of the main problems (too many neutral reads). Lurkers are not conf-scum either, plus you jumped on the leading wagon (having not read the game thoroughly)

I have literally zero pure neutral reads. And why is jumping on the leading wagon suspicious? Maybe it's the leading wagon for a reason. I wouldn't have made that vote if Jet hadn't jumped out at me as a scum read.

[Ki-Gi]

If it was the reasoning, why didn't you say that the first time I asked you why instead of a "gut" feeling?

[Ki-Gi]

Sheesh, you ARE half-asleep. I didn't even ask you about the read, and I thought the whole point of a gut feeling was that you couldn't really explain it. If you have a reason for a gut feeling, it makes sense to state the reason and not just say that you have a gut feeling. I'm calling bullshit on you.

@BBT Why is that hardly a good wagon? Lurkers are scum, I stand by that. If we let lurking, particularly from a Hydra, go unpunished, we let scum slip by us every game while we run circles around each other.

[Ki-Gi]

We spot scum by what we have to go off of their posts. The less posts, the less we have to go on, the less likely we're going to spot something scummy. Scum know this. 2 + 2 = 4.

[Ki-Gi]

Regarding both of your posts, that's another thing that strikes me as strange from you two. You're both pretending that the only reason I voted for Jet was because he was lurking. I gave specific posts that I took issue with. SS literally just asked me for more reasons when I HAD "more reasons". And BBT, why would you say Jet is "inactive" rather than lurking? Also, what are your reads?

[Ki-Gi]

So we agree on those two reads, BBT. But regarding the inactivity/lurking shtick you've got, I agree that there's a difference, and that difference is that for an inactive player, the posts that they do have indicate a genuine scumhunting effort to make up for their inactivity and reason with everyone else. A lurker, on the other hand, makes little to no effort to explain their votes or their opinions and often uses cheap tactics to detour everyone from how little they're actually contributing to the thread. Five reasons why Jet is scum:

1. Lurking. Granted, by my definition may overlap with other reasons, but the lack of posts still stands as its own reason.
2. (NEW) First post being a still-unexplained obscure vote, along with emphasis that the "vote stays" later on.
3. Defending an OMGUS post because they likely have knowledge that the person they're defending is a town who (at the point they made the defense post) might get lynched.
4. (NEW) Serious response to a non-serious SS post. (Post #278)
5. (NEW) Whining about the thread. Typical scum move trying to sound like a lazy let holier-than-thou town. gameplay did this at one point but Jet took it to another level.

[Ki-Gi]

*yet

[Ki-Gi]

Why are you playing dumb? You already know that I agree with you on Kyndy. And I'll say now that if it comes to it, I'd be willing to vote for her instead. But if we could get a Jet lynch, I would prefer that.

[Ki-Gi]

You're playing dumb because you knew that we shared a scum read regarding Kyndy but you acted like you didn't. And now also because you know why I accused you of playing dumb but pretend you don't know why. Why do you think Kyndy is a better lynch than Jet? Also, don't try to sway me before giving me a reason. I'm not going to vote Kyndy until I confirm that Jet can't get the majority vote.

[Ki-Gi]

I don't know if the wagon is built around inactivity, but my vote isn't. Way to pretend the five reasons I gave don't exist.

[Ki-Gi]

So your "reasons" for voting Kyndy are because you THINK she is the scum on the ZZZX bandwagon (why? you don't say), she gave a confused read on ZZZX after his roleclaim, and that she gave all of her reads instead of only scum reads? I'm sorry but I already gave a better reason than any of that and she's not even my vote. Tell me what I'm missing. Point it out to me.

@new post I'm not acting like I'm the only person. If the wagon is based on one reason, and I have more than one reason, my vote is worth more than the wagon. I don't

think

the wagon is based on one reason, but if it is, I don't think it will be for one long, even if the wagonee begins to "contribute". Why are you excusing the lack of contribution so far? I already outlined to

you

the difference between lurking and inactivity.

[Ki-Gi]

You still haven't told me why you

really

voted for Kyndy, and all you have to tell me now is that you've already been over the difference between lurking and inactivity? You completely ignored my five reasons why Jet was lurking rather than inactive. Am I supposed to just take your word for it? You sound like a broken record! And three days time is a LOT of leeway for excusing inactivity. Scumbuddying much?

[Ki-Gi]

My read on BBT before was neutral leaning scum. Now it's just a stronger lean, but I would still prefer a Jet or Kyndy lynch.

[Ki-Gi]

You could have saved yourself some time if you had posted that sooner. I still find it questionable that it seems like you're ignoring the fact that there is more than one argument against Jet (and that you claim you're not defending them when you pretty clearly are), but for now I'll let you off the hook.

[Ki-Gi]

VOTE: Ki-Gi

Seriously?

[Ki-Gi]

Care to present a case against me?

[Ki-Gi]

Vibes? Do you think you're some kind of psychic? Most players prefer actual reasons.

[Ki-Gi]

@bins: I'm down for a Ki-Gi-Oh lynch if my other head agrees.

Can you explain that bit about the JK to me?

~MochaMinivan

PEdit: Relax bud, it was a joke.

Clearly I come off as pretty unintelligent to you. But why scummy? Why are you refusing to co-operate with explaining

why

you have the scum reads that you have? You haven't explained the gameplay vote and you haven't explained why you'd be willing to lynch me. Is it literally just because you disagree with my logic? If you want me to change my vote you'll have to do better than that.

[Ki-Gi]

Kk no need to give fast hammers.
UNVOTE:
I may vote if smb cc's but for now this is for the best

Why the fuck is this town dude

Search up Dangan Rompa mafia.

Iso salamence up to the part where i say gameplay is VI.

Read from there.

Thats why

Cool thanks

Lynch BBT

I wouldn't argue against him, you, kyndy, and of course Jet being lynched. Your play style reeks of spontaneity without decent explanation. That's a good play style to get away with plenty of scum tactics unnoticed.

[Ki-Gi]

Ki-Gi what if I told you that I lurked one game and I was town

??

Were you lynched?

[Ki-Gi]

Good. Lurking should not be encouraged. If you're going to sign up for a game, you should participate it. If lurking goes unpunished that leaves an opportunity for scum to lurk and win games easily.

[Ki-Gi]

*in it

[Ki-Gi]

@bins: I'm down for a Ki-Gi-Oh lynch if my other head agrees.

Can you explain that bit about the JK to me?

~MochaMinivan

PEdit: Relax bud, it was a joke.

Clearly I come off as pretty unintelligent to you. But why scummy? Why are you refusing to co-operate with explaining

why

you have the scum reads that you have? You haven't explained the gameplay vote and you haven't explained why you'd be willing to lynch me. Is it literally just because you disagree with my logic? If you want me to change my vote you'll have to do better than that.

I

didn't vote Gameplay (can we capitalize this guy's name from now on?) and I question why you have let Molla and all of his reads slide.

I mean, come on, he literally only quotes people's posts and says "Scum^" or "^Town"

Excuse me? I just said I wouldn't argue against lynching him.

[Ki-Gi]

Also, Post #136. You did vote Gameplay, Jet, and you haven't changed the vote, or explained the vote. Denying any of this is a very bad idea.

[Ki-Gi]

I don't get why it matters that it was your other half. It's still under your name and it's still unexplained and you still haven't changed it.

[Ki-Gi]

Zing! Got me there.

[Ki-Gi]

It's all good, I know deep down you know I'm a genius.

[Ki-Gi]

I don't think Kyndy would be able to come off as so frustrated and apologetic if she weren't town. I haven't ruled her out but I would have much less faith in lynching her than lynching Jet, BBmolla, or BBT. I might actually prefer a BBmolla lynch to a Jet lynch at the moment, but for now I'll keep my vote on Jet so they don't get too comfortable.

[Ki-Gi]

For such a long post you have very little to say, Hiraki. I'll respond to your comments towards me point by point, give me...well, maybe an hour. Yuck.

[Ki-Gi]

Despite wall garbage Hiraki is probably town

I agree with this.

[Ki-Gi]

Sorry for more wall garbage.

@Hiraki

I do think lurkers are scum. And if they're not scum, they need to be lynched anyway so lurking doesn't become commonplace in the game. It. Is. Not. O. Kay.

What does "highly theoretical and not based in substance" mean in a goddamn mafia game on Day 1? Everything is highly theoretical, and there isn't much variation between what does and doesn't have substance. At first you basically call that reason just a weak stretch and then you say it's illogical? That's not even the same thing, I think you're just very desperately trying to make me look bad. And what does my predecessor have to do with me other than the role? If I was in the game in a different role and he was lurking, I wouldn't let him off the hook either about it. I like how you only agree with my ideas when they're convenient for you to point the finger at me.

How in the world does a measly two pages let me know how someone acts? I need to see someone in multiple games with multiple roles before I can have confidence that I know what's appropriate for them.

Regarding the setup, I'm not sure if you're joking or not. You say it's in the first post as if it were simple but then

you

go on to describe it in a much more complicated way than it actually is.

What's off about gameplay to you? He set off no alarms for me so I don't see why I should have to give specifics. If I have nothing to say, why would I want to make up shit?

I don't see why calling someone who hasn't posted yet probably scum is "safe". It goes along with my lurkers are scum statement which seems to be pretty controversial here. Lurking is a scum tell. I define lurking as lurking and not playing town, and I think I made that perfectly clear earlier. You got that I claim to know what lurking is yet you didn't get what I said I think it is? Give me a break.

Regarding the three extra reasons, those were added when I was questioned about my vote. When I originally gave my vote I had given a less thorough read of the thread, and didn't want to go to the trouble of making a case to back my vote. Later on I elaborated on it. Why is that a big deal to you?

Regarding the sudden vote without explanation, Jet was asked about the vote and gave no answer while continuing to post. That's just as bad as bullshit reasoning, it's deliberately avoiding the call to defend yourself.

Because you have no defense for your scummy actions.

In Post 278, Jet responded to SS's "well at least I'm right" post with "Oh are you? Only town know who the scum are." That's scum doing a weak Bogart impression.

Right now Jet is more scummy than Kyndy. Kyndy defended herself well, and Jet didn't. Pretty simple.

[Ki-Gi]

Haha, I didn't quote you. I went and did it myself. Just...copied your exact post...>.>

Besides, isn't it fluffy? Isn't it? Hiraki = FLUFF

~ Boon.

and you are one to talk?

I'm 100% positive you're not supposed to be here.

[Ki-Gi]

Ugh, fluff is right. I think I'm going to puke. You didn't even address what I countered for any of those points, you just repeated what you said the first time, which itself was already disregarding a good chunk of what I said before. If you have legitimate questions or concerns regarding me that we could actually discuss then just ask. As for your case against gameplay, I don't think it's that good. The only decent point is I think you make is the accusation of flip-flopping. The rest is taking simple posts and stretching them to enormous leaps of faith to be regarded as suspicious. And then you make fun of him for being hypocritical about using humor in the thread and use that as an ACTUAL REASON WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM? I'm not convinced you have an ulterior motive yet, but please up your game. And not by word count, by useful content.

[Ki-Gi]

when if flips scum that proves i'm town <3 right?

ZZZX PLEASE

Flipping never proves anything. You seem eager to establish a scenario where you are "proven" town. I doanlikeit. I doanlikeitonebit.

[Ki-Gi]

I'm not sure he was joking. And if he wasn't, I'm not sure why your response would be.

[Ki-Gi]

I have more faith in a molla or Jet lynch, but I wouldn't mind a BBT lynch either. At times his scumhunting feels fake to me, and at other times it just feels like town with obnoxiously poor logic. But I'm leaning the former.

[Ki-Gi]

Jet and I already did regarding BBmolla. His posts are snappy and spontaneous, which puts him in a position where he can basically say and do anything in the thread and everyone will laugh it off like "oh, that's crazy ol' BBMolla up to his old tricks again". It is not okay for someone to be in that position. What exactly would he have to do in order for you to find him scummy? Claim scum? I imagine even that you would just say is his wacky self.

And I've already given five reasons I've had a problem with Jet, and they hardly tried to defend against them. If there's one thing that grinds my gears in Mafia it's when people play dumb. You

know

that both BBmolla and Jet have cases against them. At least admit that and just say you disagree with the cases. Pretending they don't exist doesn't make you look too good.

[Ki-Gi]

First off, you didn't answer what I think is a pretty important question. What exactly would Molla have to do that you would consider a scum move? You quote me saying "how he talks" but I never even said it was how he talked that made him a scum read for me, stop trying to put words in my mouth. When I say his posts are snappy and spontaneous, I mean his posts, and I said as much. That includes how he talks, that includes his actions, that includes everything. Also, being silly should not be an indication of not trying to cover something up. It's not a stretch at all to suggest that silliness = genuine is exactly what he wants you to think. If a player is goofy as town, and wants you to think they're town when they're scum, aren't they going to try and mimic their regular town performance to the best of their ability? You also quote me saying "scumtells" as if scumtells are just a weird random concept that I just pulled out of my ass for the sake of this game. You haven't provided anything regarding scumtells, and THOSE ARE HOW WE DECIDE WHO GETS LYNCHED. We don't lynch scum, we lynch who we think is scum. How do we decide on who we think is scum? SCUMTELLS. GET SOME.

1. I'm not even going there. So many of you have used my stance on lurking as a way to dodge around commenting on any other point that I've made, it's absurd, and I'm done addressing it.
2. This isn't a bad point, and if it was the only reason against Jet I would think it was a weaker case. But too often I think people place their votes on one big scumtell rather than a number of small ones, and that's how the better scum players slip by unnoticed.
5? It's not the whining, it's that the whining feels fake. There are few posts that could be considered scummy unless you take into account how fake they feel, and maybe that explains why you never use scumtells, because you don't recognize that.

Way to feel tempted for voting me because I answered your damn question.

[Ki-Gi]

No, you didn't answer the question. You blatantly didn't answer the question. Not once, not twice. That response reeks of you knowing I'm right but being too proud to admit it so you pull the classic "omg I'm so frustrated with how wrong you are I can't even say anything against you" bull.

[Ki-Gi]

Something? You call that an answer? SOMETHING scummy? Are you shitting me?

[Ki-Gi]

Something like WHAT?

[Ki-Gi]

This is starting to look like buddying.

[Ki-Gi]

At least I won't die tonight \o/

This must be scummiest post I have seen in my life...

Agree. But hes right

[Ki-Gi]

So, let me get everything straight.

You've already admitted that BBmolla has done something scummy while maintaining a defense of him entirely on the basis that he agreed with just

one

of your reads without providing any input himself, you ask the thread for good reasons to lynch BBmolla and Jet when you yourself don't think Jet is a bad lynch, you say that you would be down for a BBmolla lynch if he did "something" scummy even though I bring up again that you've already admitted that he is in fact scummy before, then you vote for me because I argued with you and you then go on to express anticipated disappointment in the thread if not everyone follows your anti-logic?

I don't think a townie could be that aggressively ridiculous in so many ways. You have to be buddying. And oh my god, you suck.

VOTE:

Square Shreddies

[Ki-Gi]

I think that's for the best, your responses do not serve you well.

"I'd be more okay with a Jet lynch, I'll admit, but I'd rather not."

That didn't imply to me that you thought it was a BAD lynch, but whatever.

[Ki-Gi]

@kyndy

Regarding me not responding to Jet, I had nothing to add or counter to it so I didn't feel the need. It wasn't a bad defense, I'll give it that, but not good enough to convince me otherwise on any of the points.

And regarding me having four people on my to-lynch list, you admit yourself that you're in no position to call that a problem. I don't think it's an issue, if four people come off as scummy, then so be it. If everyone comes off as scummy, then so be it. If no one comes off as scummy, THAT'S when you have a problem. That's why out of our scum reads we have to distinguish who's more likely to be scum and who's not, which you did.

[Ki-Gi]

OKAY, OKAY. FUCK.

I wanted to make a post early on giving at least one scum read so I basically pulled the lurking thing out of my ass. I don't even believe that myself. Then when I got called out on it I tried to justify it with "other reasons", some of which were okay, but honestly my main purpose was just to be consistent and not come off as scummy for suddenly dismissing the Jet vote I just threw out because I knew that would look bad. I'm sorry for that bullshit, it's my first mafia game in years and I should've known better, I should've actually read the entire thread before saying anything that I would change my mind on later.

I don't think Jet is scum. And if I get lynched for this inconsistency I won't blame any of you because it is pretty fucking lame of me. Jet is the only read I mentioned before actually reading the damn thread so all of my other reads are true. I'm down for an SS, BBmolla, BBT, or Ki-Gi lynch.

[Ki-Gi]

Or a gameplay lynch honestly, I have to admit it does look like he's trying to buddy with me.

[Ki-Gi]

Yes, I admit it was a shitty thing to do, I thought that me looking consistent was more important than giving truthful reads. I didn't want to look suspicious by voting for you and then immediately changing my mind, so I kept the act up, and only broke it when it looked like I was a prime lynch candidate anyway. There's no need to question me about it, I know how stupid it is.

[Ki-Gi]

*facepalm*

[Ki-Gi]

Would you prefer I DIDN'T admit how bad it looks for me and him? He's still not in my top three lynch candidates.

[Ki-Gi]

BBT, how do you feel about Hiraki being the only one not voting for you?

[Ki-Gi]

What I meant was, why Hiraki and no one else?

[Ki-Gi]

Why is this BBT lynch so hard to get

There are 7 people who want him dead in this game excluding BBT and myself.

I'll admit that I'm ballsy as scum but please open your eyes BBmolla. He's not scum and there are way too many people who want him dead.

That's pretty godawful logic to be honest.

[Ki-Gi]

No, we don't know what you mean.

That made no sense.

I'm not asking for favors. I'm not asking for anything, actually. I'm calling you out.

[Ki-Gi]

@kyndy

Yes it was stupid, yes it was shitty, I've already gone over all that and I'm sorry. It was for my ego and ego shouldn't be a factor here. Everything aside, you really need to calm down. Regardless of what I did, we're playing a game here, and you shouldn't get angry because I did something that hurt town. We're not children and we're not paid to do this, we're doing this for fun. At least I am, and I hope you follow my example in that department. If you really take this game as seriously as it seems like you are, I hope things get better for you.

Ki so do you scumread Hiraki or not?

I didn't at first, but now I kind of am. Now I really don't know anymore though, everyone's reads all over the place and I don't have anyone's meta to go off so it's hard to distinguish awful towniness from scummy manipulation. I want a clear direction.

Or a gameplay lynch honestly, I have to admit it does look like he's trying to buddy with me.

Terrible logic. When I townread you should I stay quiet when people want to lynch you? Is that how you do when you have a townread on someone?

It's not about staying quiet, it's that you've defended me without given a good reason to. Which I could really use since everyone thinks I'm scum by the way!

[Ki-Gi]

Didn't see that coming lol.

P-edit: Better reasons? I don't know maybe it's just that everyone's all up in me and you're not. Sorry if that's the case.

[Ki-Gi]

I'm goon. That doesn't help me much because there's five goons, but whatever. And that's a good idea, gameplay. What's your current vote again? I'll go with that because I've lost faith in my reads since I keep changing them so quickly.

[Ki-Gi]

That's what I'm on, haha. Why don't YOU get on a viable wagon?

[Ki-Gi]

We're on the same wagon and you told me to get a viable wagon. I don't have the power to hammer anyone at the moment but you do.

[Ki-Gi]

Yes I am?

[Ki-Gi]

Sure enough. Well then I'll fix that.

VOTE:

Hiraki

[Ki-Gi]

Obviously I can't defend against the sns comments and I admit I probably would've had close to if not a full-on scum read from his posts. But why is asking for a case against me scummy when you vote for me?

[Ki-Gi]

GERONIMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

VOTE: Ki-Gi

[Ki-Gi]

Good game all. If I had to pick a top player I would pick Square Shreddies. I knew when she caught me trying to bus BBT that we were doomed, even when no one else agreed for a while.

[Ki-Gi]

*They, that's right.

[Ki-Gi]

When I became a lynch candidate I intentionally tried to make it look like gameplay was my scumbuddy, but of course the night actions on town's part ruined that.