Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[The Bulge]

Hey all!

I've been casually reading along. Someone wanna give me a quick tl;dr of the special mechanics? Make sure to differentiate between confirmed mechanics and speculation pls ty

[The Bulge]

I'll post later today. Busy for the next couple hours.

[The Bulge]

p. sure nothing's gonna happen until you post something useful, man

Am I being waited for?

I'm reading through Not_Mafia and Reckoner's ISOs. Not_Mafia is probably my biggest scumread at the moment and I'm really not sure about Reck. I'll be home in about 2 hours to post reads etc and lay down a vote. I know the deadline is coming up, sorry for the wait.

[The Bulge]

ARUGHAUDG I'M A LYING LIARFACE SORRY

Anyway, Not_Mafia is scum.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

(L-1?)

Early Day 1 is cluttered with general theory talk, IC-ing the newbies, vague comments, unoriginal content/common knowledge, and questions without followup. Basically all the tells of scum trying to look useful without actually affecting the state of the game.

Spoiler: Here's some of that good stuff

Colour Codes are Fun

Theory

IC

Vague

Unoriginal/Common Knowledge

Where is the followup/point?

Parama's out of nowhere aggression seems odd aswell

,

not sure if it's just a playstyle thing

"50+ posts prior which included a lot of theory babble that had largely been resolved.

Oh come on. It's totally possible to glean useful things from "theory babble," so don't just dismiss it. You can get reads based on how someone entirely posts about theory, or actually puts new ideas out and then some other good non-theory content, etc.

I got a couple of townreads from it, just not ones I feel the need in sharing at this point

And why the callout for Thirty Four's unvote and not Flame's? Both seemed pretty appeasing

If that's enough to vote them, I can do that, of course.

You should pretty much always be using your vote, this is the kind of thing that usually gets ironed out in the newbie queue.

@ Parama: This mostly comes down to personality and being afraid of playing badly.

You're going to play less efectively and get more scumreads the more the more self conscious you play

I agree that putting Flames at L-1 was silly. I don't like Parama being wanting to leave him there.

@ Parama: Why were you fine with putting Flames at L-1 on the second page over one post?

Do you think L-1 is inherently bad?

P-Edit: I was ninja'd on a lot of this after stepping away from my computer for a bit

You haven't answered my question. What's good about putting someone at L-1 on the second page over one post?
And I said why I didn't like it in my last post.

Some people hate L-1 minus early, personally I have no problem with it as long as it's clearly L-1 as I think RVS wagons and L-1 are good for pressure and that they tend to come from town and tend to come from town cos everyone knows how much attention gets put on thme for it and the inevitable discussion about derphammers that comes up every time.

After him acknowledging the misunderstanding with Bins way too late when it really should have been obvious and putting Flames at L-2 without a good reason (and without explaining his reason when I asked for it), I think Parama is pushing for easy mislynches.

And voting someone doesn't necessarily mean intent to lynch, sometimes it's just to help a read, and someone being wagoned doesn't make you or anyone else a bad player or a liability.

inexperience doesn't automatically make you town. newbie-town and newbie-scum still both make newbie mistakes. if you're town you shouldn't care how you look, you worry about the people you think are scum.

This is great in theory but fails often in practice in regards to newbies, some people are just going to get emotional and prioritise staying in the game for their few games. This is the same low-info lynch on a newb town I've seen many times.

Yeah, I think Parama is fine now. I'm trying to calm down. I'm not sure if I can. You might have to look for a replacement.

Sometimes it's better to step away from a game for a bit if you're getting stressed out. This is a game first and foremost, it's meant to be enjoyable.

gut read, but his posts just seem of

Man it's a good thing we're not like way past the point where having "gut reads" and posts seeming "off" are acceptable justifications for reads, right

Gut reads exist, what's the big issue with this?

Jumps on Jackel quickly saying "Did you only vote me because you disliked my suggestion on how to use the doors? How did that make me vote worthy?" as if there were any worthier reasons to vote anyone 22 posts in.

oh so we should just never leave rvs or try to ask ppl about their reads right? ok ty glad to know youre functionally retarded

This is definitely what he meant

(Just straight-up fluff)

Quilford's case read to me like the type of case someone subbing in makes, considering this...

Sorry, had to do a bit of study over the weekend.

I think it's relatively applicable

Mines not set in stone or based on being inclined to talk to anyone in particular, I put me and Reck in separate rooms and then added the other people in one by one based on a combination of my townreads and who I think are least likely to be lynched.

We should be aiming to protect the towniest towns obviously but we also don't want to advertise to scum who they should be killing as we don't know yet if their kills a restricted to a room or if they have x-shot strongman kinda things where they can kill across rooms or a myriad of other possibilities where scum could wifom the shit out of NKs and all we end up actually doing is telling scum who to kill. Flavour wise kills within rooms only makes the most sense (I'm guessing, I've only played Virtue's Last Reward) but I feel like the game could be breakable like that as well, so I'm not sold.

I'm curious though; you have me in your top 3 scumreads then? Even though a quick scan of your ISO shows exactly one comment that could even possibly be interpreted as an indication of suspicion and only says "odd" at worst.

I'm PoEing this game hard, you're at an intersection of not being in my top townreads and being a potential lynch candidate but I could see putting you in over 1 or 2 people I have in a room at the moment.

THE VAGUENESS HURTS

If Reck isn't confirmed town tomorrow we can lynch him then, trying to drive a wagon on him today is silly but I'm not going to bend over backwards trying to create some sort of foolproof plan for him with his attitude to/in the game so far.

There's a lot more in later ISO, but that should be enough to get my point across.

I don't know how to read Reck because the passive-aggressiveness (just look at that fucking smile) could very well be fake rage. I don't think I've ever played a game with you before, reck, but you strike me as a kuribo-esque player (ie, rips your face off in a 1v1) but I know that players like that are very good at faking their town-rage. I'll try to figure you out tomorrow but for now I'm standing on a Not_Mafia lynch.

[The Bulge]

reck, but you strike me as a kuribo-esque player

Knew you'd like that

read: I'm scared to make you mad

[The Bulge]

Basically all the tells of scum trying to look useful without actually affecting the state of the game.

This is important.

The post was not meant to be taken quote-by-quote, but as a whole just to demonstrate this point. Each post on its own is not inherently bad, but it takes up the majority of his early-game ISO.

Theory posting - especially generalized theory - is good in practice but does not advance the game and is not scumhunting.

ICing is the best example of trying to look useful.

Vague posts are extremely non-committal and give the illusion of scumhunting behind the scenes when really he can make up any explanation he wants when it comes to it.

Parroting isn't always bad. I don't expect anything important to only be said once. But the length of the posts show again that he's trying to appear helpful without actually contributing anything.

Questions without followups plus the occasional empty read has basically the same reasoning as vagueness (ie, noncommittal, nothing set in stone, etc) plus no solid effort to scumhunt.

[The Bulge]

though he seems intent on doing so

I knew you disagreed with my reasons.

But does that make me scum?

[The Bulge]

how inactive was the other QT btw

YEA WTF GUYS why did ours have like 5 posts

[The Bulge]

Gamma what's the case? Is it me or Quilly?

[The Bulge]

<- me rn

o rly

[The Bulge]

fake edit: ugh

Swooping in and hammering? Seriously?

What's so bad about it? Deadline is in like 2 hours. Another wagon was not about to happen.

[The Bulge]

<- me rn

o rly

omg
dying

dayvig: parama

[The Bulge]

waiting on a PM thing and then I'll vote, 99% sure who I'm lynching today though

Doublevoter + ?

(don't answer that)

[The Bulge]

VOTE: Gammagooey


how do we want to do doors btw? 3 people in, 2 out, or all 5 people in a single door?

Is 5 together even beneficial? It's basically just nightless

...except some of us might die

[The Bulge]

Speaking of rooms how was Room 5 discussion last night?

[The Bulge]

Couldn't Reck just be some sort of mailman/courier? I don't think we should treat him as 100% conftown today.

[The Bulge]

Oh I forgot about the Esper. Did anyone get any messages or anything from Grib? Because I was thinking he was some sort of QT Spy, which would explain why he opted to sit out every night. He could probably only use his ability outside of rooms.

[The Bulge]

The message fits with flavor, at any rate.

ugh ugh ugh. What the fuck ever, let's lynch scum today so this stupid game can stop hurting my stupid brain.

But it also fits with a QT Spy. Why else would he want to sit out?

Did anyone receive a message from Grib?

[The Bulge]

The former.

Is there any chance I can be outside by myself? That way I can share some maybe useful info about my role, and if scum kill me it at least proves the NK can pierce rooms.

[The Bulge]

The message fits with flavor, at any rate.

ugh ugh ugh. What the fuck ever, let's lynch scum today so this stupid game can stop hurting my stupid brain.

But it also fits with a QT Spy. Why else would he want to sit out?

Did anyone receive a message from Grib?

well I did N1 and he was dead by N2, so. I doubt he'd be able to message two people in one night.

What did it say?

pedit - You're discounting Parama?

[The Bulge]

And why are we worrying about Grib's role, exactly? He's flipped. I was talking about Reck still.

pedit OMG SO MANY POSTS

Grib's role potentially gives us insight on Reck's role.

[The Bulge]

~40 posts. Decent content.

[The Bulge]

Try again.

[The Bulge]

If Akane and I are the only unclaimed then

I'm VT.

[The Bulge]

Bins who was your N1 investigation?

pedit - oh

[The Bulge]

Ok if we're gonna base today off of "try to find who RBd reck" I think I'd like Parama to claim because that could potentially save us a lot of time.

[The Bulge]

Ok if we're gonna base today off of "try to find who RBd reck" I think I'd like Parama to claim because that could potentially save us a lot of time.

omg are you seriously this dense

Well I'm assuming it has something to do with it...

So yes, I am precisely this dense.

[The Bulge]

Also town had zero motive to roleblock Reck.

[The Bulge]

if that's your premise for not lynching him
then i'm going to have to
do something
and get reck pissed at me

I mean this

[The Bulge]

o that's why you thought I was dense

[The Bulge]

I didn't mean claim. I assumed "making reck mad" included revealing a second power you have.

pedit - OH

[The Bulge]

Damn Room 5 sounds like fun

[The Bulge]

btw gamma in room 4 was making a case on you bussing nm, parama

that was me

[The Bulge]

Ok yea but he didn't have any semblance of a "case"

Not that mine was much of a case anyway

[The Bulge]

paraphrasing...

You didn't say "Not_Mafia is a better wagon" so much as "I don't like the Bulge wagon", implying you prefer N_M.

Basically it looks like you could have pre-planned a bus lynch and you wanted to see it through without connecting yourself to it too much. Obviously being on a scum's lynch is townpoints++, but distancing from a bus is also likely and starts getting into WIFOM territory.

Enforced by the fact that you apparently posted a case against N_M in your N1 QT but I don't recall anything solid in-thread (trying to subtly influence a couple people, again without drawing too much attention)

[The Bulge]

Eh doesn't look as good but it's either this or CtrlC+CtrlV+modkill

[The Bulge]

Remember to take note of the lynch when doing room-math

[The Bulge]

Jackel didn't even mention NM.

not only this, but she mentioned everyone else at least once, and several people a butt-ton. That's a stronger associative tell than just not mentioning NM.

I basically wrote an outline for a thesis paper in the QT for you and Jackel/Gamma associative tells, and got halfway through one on Parama before my care-o-meter ran out, sooooo yeah.

Why so sure of a three person scumteam?

[The Bulge]

Wait I might be reading that wrong

[The Bulge]

Yea I read it as

Not_Mafia flip
Gamma very likely scum
Associative tells Bins/Gamma

but had in my head that gamma had flipped already so yea

[The Bulge]

Aw no room for me

Doesn't matter because I don't have an action but zzz boring

[The Bulge]

Also are we just waiting on Gamma or ...?

[The Bulge]

Cool

6-Vote: Bins, Akane, Parama, Reck, Bulge

[The Bulge]

1500!

I'd be kinda okay with an Akane lynch actually. Let me ISO her vs N_M.

[The Bulge]

hehe

[The Bulge]

I'm down for Parama.

[The Bulge]

##unvote

1-Vote: Bins, Bulge, Reck, Gamma, Akane

VOTE: Parama

L-1

[The Bulge]

Bulge is ???

paraphrasing...

You didn't say "Not_Mafia is a better wagon" so much as "I don't like the Bulge wagon", implying you prefer N_M.

Basically it looks like you could have pre-planned a bus lynch and you wanted to see it through without connecting yourself to it too much. Obviously being on a scum's lynch is townpoints++, but distancing from a bus is also likely and starts getting into WIFOM territory.

Enforced by the fact that you apparently posted a case against N_M in your N1 QT but I don't recall anything solid in-thread (trying to subtly influence a couple people, again without drawing too much attention)

It's not like it came out of no where

[The Bulge]

vote [Not_Mafia, Quilford, Jackel - 9], [Parama, Reck, yoncé - 7]

7-vote: xRECKONERx, Quilford, Not_Mafia
8-vote: Parama, Akane Kurashiki, Bins

Would prefer this

1-vote: Bins, Quilford, Not_Mafia
5-vote Akane Kurashiki, Parama, xRECKONERx

hmmmhm???

Never in the same room. Good catch

[The Bulge]

Oh yea

I totally didn't do that ISO either

Oops

[The Bulge]

I don't have words for this stupidity. I've been sitting here trying to type things for like ten minutes now and there are just no words to fully encompass my anger except for maybe "ritual murder-suicide."

[The Bulge]

I'll get around to it, keep your anger encompassed.

[The Bulge]

I'm playing a match of league. Then I'll do it. Sound good?

[The Bulge]

Are you doing this out of principle (ie, "you said you would get it done, so fucking get it done") or do you just really want me to ISO you?

[The Bulge]

Hello friends

[The Bulge]

I do not remember being yelled at. I am a goldfish, I have very poor memory.

[The Bulge]

(for reals tho I'm reading)

[The Bulge]

Note: any further killing roles are very unlikely due to the whole 9-day game deadline thing

[The Bulge]

Sleeping

Finishing up my read tomorrow

Sorry Akane <3

[The Bulge]

How the fuck is that irrelevant

[The Bulge]

Hello I'm in class I'll be home in like half an hour. Just passing by here.

[The Bulge]

Whoa dude I've been prodded

Going to the fair this afternoon. I'll post some time today.

Welcome, CDB! Weird that Akane wouldn't mention that she can only change bracelets to 0 but like Parama said, nothing really notable.

[The Bulge]

Oh shit

Sorry I'm here. Deadline creeping up.

Make sure we adjust door votes based on the lynch

[The Bulge]

If Parama is scum and there are more than 2 scum then there's no way he'd be at L-1 this long while we discuss.

[The Bulge]

I've had a really busy week. I'm sorry . I'll take the Night Phase to fully catch up and all that jazz.

[The Bulge]

Reck don't tell us what you would have done differently as scum. All this tells us is that you are self-aware of your play which means that it's a big pile of WIFOM.

[The Bulge]

UNVOTE: Parama

[The Bulge]

I'm pretty sure the only player that everyone in the game has expressed interest in lynching is Reck. Why has nothing been thrown his way?

It's a playstyle I see a lot, especially from experienced players. Yelling at people and shitting on their reasoning as a defense. I'm not saying this is alignment-indicative in itself, it's just really damn convenient as a scum tactic if you can pull it off right.

[The Bulge]

now you need to explain why you voted me in the first place. even a simple explanation will do, i just want something. ANYTHING. from you.

Honestly it was the thing I posted earlier. Just minor associative tells with NM.

[The Bulge]

paraphrasing...

You didn't say "Not_Mafia is a better wagon" so much as "I don't like the Bulge wagon", implying you prefer N_M.

Basically it looks like you could have pre-planned a bus lynch and you wanted to see it through without connecting yourself to it too much. Obviously being on a scum's lynch is townpoints++, but distancing from a bus is also likely and starts getting into WIFOM territory.

Enforced by the fact that you apparently posted a case against N_M in your N1 QT but I don't recall anything solid in-thread (trying to subtly influence a couple people, again without drawing too much attention)

[The Bulge]

a single vote less than 24 hours before the deadline is hardly what I call pressure. I was gauging support.

[The Bulge]

Ok let's see where this goes then.

VOTE: Reck

Parama and Gooey are probably not scum and idfk about CDB but that probably won't happen anyway.

[The Bulge]

I'm pretty sure the only player that everyone in the game has expressed interest in lynching is Reck. Why has nothing been thrown his way?

It's a playstyle I see a lot, especially from experienced players. Yelling at people and shitting on their reasoning as a defense. I'm not saying this is alignment-indicative in itself, it's just really damn convenient as a scum tactic if you can pull it off right.

This is a disgusting post.

"Everyone has expressed suspicion on this person, why aren't we going after him?"

<--- It's a way to fuel a mislynch without taking responsibility for it by playing off of other people's expressed suspicions. Interesting to note that Bulge has ever only been on the fence about me, but when I claimed RB, he took the claim on good faith and went with it without questioning. It is just now (as in, the past twenty minutes) that he has suddenly supposedly expressed an interest in lynching me.

"It's a playstyle I see a lot, especially from experienced players."

<--- A claim to general meta/authority that really can't be argued, but is used to cast suspicion on me.

"Yelling at people and shitting on their reasoning as a defense"

<--- This isn't actually a "playstyle"... yelling, maybe. But picking apart someone's reasoning is

what you fucking do when you play mafia

. This is just basically describing something and using context to make it seem bad when it's not.

"I'm not saying this is alignment-indicative in itself, it's just really damn convenient as a scum tactic if you can pull it off right."

<--- AHHH! And we're back full-circle... Bulge, prior to this post, hadn't expressed explicit desire to lynch me. He starts this post by going EVERYONE WANTS TO LYNCH RECK... then spends a paragraph dicking around the issue with empty content... and finally arrives back to fence sitting on my alignment at the end.

Hate to say it but half of this is invalid simply because I've been inactive in this game.
The other half is fair. Except for the part where I'm scum

[The Bulge]

It is just now (as in, the past twenty minutes) that he has suddenly supposedly expressed an interest in lynching me.

[...]

Bulge, prior to this post, hadn't expressed explicit desire to lynch me.

[The Bulge]

are you basically admitting to active lurking all of day 3

Should I lie?

No, Bulge, you don't get to do that, because you supposedly read up and have been popping in and if you had developed a scumread on me, you would've said something. This one just magically materialized BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE WANTED TO LYNCH ME.

1) I questioned why Reck had not yet received any pressure.
2) Parama asks why I'm not applying pressure myself.
3) I explain.
4) Parama makes me feel useless (and rightfully so).
5) I decide to be less useless.

And here we are.

[The Bulge]

My vanilla-ness will be confirmed tonight.

[The Bulge]

are you basically admitting to active lurking all of day 3

Should I lie?

No, Bulge, you don't get to do that, because you supposedly read up and have been popping in and if you had developed a scumread on me, you would've said something. This one just magically materialized BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE WANTED TO LYNCH ME.

1) I questioned why Reck had not yet received any pressure.
2) Parama asks why I'm not applying pressure myself.
3) I explain.
4) Parama makes me feel useless (and rightfully so).
5) I decide to be less useless.

And here we are.

BZZZZZZT.

Let's go back to 1. I don't care about 2, 3, 4, or 5 because 1 is where you imply you have had this lingering scumread on me and WTF GUYS WHY ISNT ANYONE PUSHING RECK? What came after is irrelevant to that original point.

BZZZZZZT.

Implied

. As in you

inferred

. Did you consider the fact that you might be wrong and that I didn't fabricate a scum-read out of nowhere? No, I asked why nothing had ever happened with it, because I noticed that any time anyone says anything against you you shut it down with anger and condescension.

[The Bulge]

Weighing in

[The Bulge]

Why are both of today's lynch options town-reading me? How is this supposed to make me feel because idk what to make of it.

Seriously thought, theory question here. Assuming I am town, should that tell me anything?

[The Bulge]

Do we No Lynch or do I hammer?

I thought Parama was scum earlier but now I just have no idea.

[The Bulge]

God hammering Parama looks so bad on me because I just said he was prob town

But I really hate the idea of a No Lynch when there will probably not be any kill tonight.

Is the plurality on the 1-vote yet?

[The Bulge]

##unvote
1-Vote: Bins, The Bulge, ChannelDelibird

VOTE: Parama
Fingers crossed

[The Bulge]

I'd be willing to lynch Reck or Gamma at this point but I will not vote anyone outside of these two. Bins' and CDB's powers don't make any sense as scum PRs. I'll look more deeply at ISOs for reck and gamma when I'm on a laptop but I was thinking about reck-scum today and it makes a lot of sense.

[The Bulge]

Whoa I missed this whole page. Damn phone posting

[The Bulge]

Dammit everything reck is saying kinda makes sense but I just can't shake the feeling of "yell at everyone who says I'm wrong so they back down". Like I wish I could read his posts sans rage and see how much content/solid defense there really is and how much of it is just intimidation.

[The Bulge]

Really I don't see any way we can lose this.

I just don't want to be lynched tomorrow if Gamma flips town. I feel like reck in LyLo will be dangerous (especially if he's scum)

[The Bulge]

I won't be around tomorrow, but I think I'd most prefer a Gamma lynch. I'll give my input on Sunday.

[The Bulge]

...are we absolutely sure that the remaining scum is mafia? I've had the notion of a third party shot down before and I know it would make the lack of nightkills even weirder but I'm starting to consider it again.

Or is it just Gamma playing his fucking socks off to try and pull this out?

I forgot about this possibility. Hm.

Also CDB have I done anything or is it all my slot that you're going off of?

[The Bulge]

Bins do you think CDB is scum though?

[The Bulge]

CDB's role really doesn't make any sense at all as a scum role. Neither does Bins'. I'd really rather lynch between Reck and Gamma today.

PEDIT: then stop voting him

[The Bulge]

Pretty much my only reason to consider CDB as town was his PR. But now that I think about it, while it's particularly useful to scum, I guess it could still make sense as a balancer or whatever.

@Mod: VC?

Also regarding CDB. Look at his recent posts. Is he really looking for associative tells/scumhunting or is he just dicking around and posting a lot of empty content? I could very plausibly see it as town-cred "don't-lynch-me-in-lylo" noise.

[The Bulge]

*while it isn't particularly useful

[The Bulge]

Uh, yes, he's posting actual content and your attempt to hand wave it all away is rather disgusting.

Of course it's content but if he's scum it's worthless. Anyone can pull content out of their ass. And if the last scum is counting on winning this and surviving three lynches then they're going to go try-hard with fake content. I for one know that his read on me is wrong. What do you have that's telling you it's real content besides maybe just agreeing with some of his reads?

[The Bulge]

he put in a ton of fucking work and I don't think scum fakes that.

Ugh. Really? I hate this notion that scum are incapable of putting effort into a game. I see it everywhere. Walls full of content =/= conftown. Why is it so meta to assume that the minute someone receives a mafia role PM, they become disinterested in the game? That's real weak.

[The Bulge]

I'm replacing out of all my games tonight. Sorry this one had to be forced. I'm taking an indefinite hiatus from playing. Good luck, everyone! Pleasure playing with all of you.

[The Bulge]

I wasnt entirely useless, my two scumreads were you and your partner :/

Good game everyone!