Micro 503- CD9* Day 4

[Espeonage]

/con firm

[Espeonage]

When do votes start actually counting

probs when jingle does he thing

btw I really like the humor in your sig. What with House being one of the most policy lynchable people on site talking about policy lynching. Made me laugh.

[Espeonage]

I'll never understand what constitutes as policy lynchable on this site

In this case it's being the biggest dick yet to get permabanned.

[Espeonage]

I am the cop, doc on me. Discuss.

[Espeonage]

Well like if the doc claimed. Then we'd have a bit of a party going so we could ruin FakeGod's game request.

BBT's line is protown though, so going to follow for the moment.

Vote: Runner

[Espeonage]

Because talking about random shit is far worse than wagoning someone randomly.

[Espeonage]

I don't get this runner wagon and FG if you didn't want to help why mention the stats at all? You're the one who brought it up.

vote: FakeGod

tbh I don't think anyone actually has suspicion on runner. However someone should hang a hammer over their head just to see what happens imo.

[Espeonage]

Obligatory flub is scum bc cc post.

[Espeonage]

Why are you not voting him then?

Have you ever come across either of the words, sarcasm or context?

[Espeonage]

Baiting town VI hammer is something fun people do.

ftfy

[Espeonage]

Also, pressure votes on someone who is already active are waste of votes, which is why those on Runner wagon are throwing their votes away.

This is categorically incorrect.

Pressure votes on inactive slots have never been, and never will be a good motivator. Pressure votes are only effective for getting differing content out of an active slot that is difficult to read either way.

Pressure votes on scum reads are also inherently scummy bc you are aiming to prove your read right to the rest of the game.

[Espeonage]

I think I liked old Esp better.

He brought good old no nonsense scum smackdown to the table.

Serious players generally do.

New Espe is less accurate but more effective.

For years people didn't follow me so I had to change my play to be heard better because I'd just fade and was useless regardless of how accurate I was.

I generally am still quite accurate though so new Espe is on balance, a better player.

[Espeonage]

I don't get this runner wagon and FG if you didn't want to help why mention the stats at all? You're the one who brought it up.

vote: FakeGod

tbh I don't think anyone actually has suspicion on runner. However someone should hang a hammer over their head just to see what happens imo.

trying to push for a un-knowing hammer?

Quick day ones with snap lynches generally don't reduce the win rate of town. (I have a theory they help town because apathy takes much longer to set in and people are held accountable for smaller miss-steps which are both good things in my books.)

[Espeonage]

FG so you seem to have believed the cop claim but are now proposing a no lynch for extra investigations?

I would be very surprised if anyone actually believed my claim. Especially when you pointed out how obviously bogus it was.

Actually maybe bulb would believe it.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: Yuriko

Failure to follow through on actions you read as scummy is a sign of not wanting to stir the pot which is not a town attitude.

[Espeonage]

That is insulting.

Sorry was meant as a follow up joke to continue the banter you started last page. I apologise if I misread your tone.

[Espeonage]

I don't get this runner wagon and FG if you didn't want to help why mention the stats at all? You're the one who brought it up.

vote: FakeGod

tbh I don't think anyone actually has suspicion on runner. However someone should hang a hammer over their head just to see what happens imo.

trying to push for a un-knowing hammer?

Quick day ones with snap lynches generally don't reduce the win rate of town.

doesn't mean it should be done.

vote: espeonage

Ok Wait a sec. Back up.

Sure you're right, the quoted does mean it's a justification for everyone to go for it. You're a bit wrong in saying it shouldn't be done. The fact that there isn't a difference kinda implies, but sure, it's not for everyone.

HOWEVER.

There is more to that line that I had that you have ommited. Now why would that be?

Lets see, it gives proper justification for my actions, it explains my mentality so that there is clarity.

AND YET YOU OMIT IT.

Which means that you have an agenda here. Either you want to discredit me, which if you are town means you want my recent vote on you to not be followed, ergo you are not town.

Or you are scum trying to lynch me and ignoring the pro-town parts of my posting. Which is really scummy.

You need to be lynched. Asap.

[Espeonage]

I don't get this runner wagon and FG if you didn't want to help why mention the stats at all? You're the one who brought it up.

vote: FakeGod

tbh I don't think anyone actually has suspicion on runner. However someone should hang a hammer over their head just to see what happens imo.

What did you want to achieve with this? Did you actually want a hammer

I wanted someone to threaten it for the time being. But no biggie if they actually went through with it.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: Yuriko

Failure to follow through on actions you read as scummy is a sign of not wanting to stir the pot which is not a town attitude.

What is this referring to?

Her iso 2 and 6 basically.

Ignoring the most recent stuff that is incredibly bad, a trend to calling people out on stuff and then not voting or explaining why they don't follow it with a vote is bad. Reason being because it leaves options for them to vote and evidence to go back to should they need to flop on the person later.

[Espeonage]

I don't like meta but when something is done as both alignment you can pretty much discard it.

Like how I'm a trolly dick no matter what.

I know there are questions waiting for me. But I am on a slow as balls computer so they will get adressed later..

[Espeonage]

Possibly it's because you have shown an incredibly scum mindset in your pushing and are pretty much assured scum.

[Espeonage]

Yuri

[Espeonage]

Bulb seems p town man. Like players that aren't particularly comfortable don't make walls as scum.

[Espeonage]

I feel that you should vote yuri so the wagon can be seen as legitimate. I want this bc it will mean people are forced to weigh in on her horrendous case on me.

[Espeonage]

also scumday celebrations from the countries in the future.

[Espeonage]

Can we please just lynch her?

Instead of forming new reads when you get called out (finally) on your terrible play you cop out completely from doing any work?

Ugh

[Espeonage]

People who haven't given their thoughts on the no lynch plan should give them.

I would rather not pin my chances on Mafia not being good at pr hunting.

[Espeonage]

That means that if scum get lucky or work out who the pr's are then no lynching is categorically worse than lynching.

[Espeonage]

No. Vote yuri

[Espeonage]

BC yuri is definitely scum, which is better than a maybe.

[Espeonage]

Her posting is that of someone who needs to make someone they know is not scum seem scum, which is exhibited by excluding parts of an otherwise fine post and not following up on leads immediately which is consistent with either not wanting to shake the boat (so to speak) or wanting to be able to refer back later when an opportunistic vote is required.

Couple this with the subsequent back off which isn't followed by hunting, instead copping out of the whole process.

[Espeonage]

Read Bulb ISO.

I admit that Bulb blatantly prioritizes self-survival, and I agree that self-survivalist play tend to come from scum.

But I feel that Bulb has been rather honest with his emotions in his posts. Maybe bit of that righteous anger you feel as town when you're being accused wrongly of being scum.

This p much sums up my feelings on bulba too.

[Espeonage]

I would be so happy if Yuri and Flub cross voted and people started expressing if they are happy to compromise.

I am currently against lynching anyone other than yuri, but I think thatthis could be a good situation for pressure.

[Espeonage]

Pdodge, haven't had access for a couple of days, irl shit going down.

@Bulb: Please make a vote on someone that already has votes or give a full case you are then going to push. Vanity wagons are no good right now.
@Grey: Are you open to a compromise on Yuri, I'm really not feeling flub and you seem to not like either of them. I'll try to work on working out why I am gut town on flub by day 2.

[Espeonage]

Gray and Bulba, you're running incircles and both town. Drop it and get to lynching.

[Espeonage]

Town.

Lets just assume that anyone that isn't yuri I will happily call town.

I'll even call anyone other than yuri a strong town read if it gets in to people's heads how immobile I am on yuri.

You've even played with me a few times. You should understand how out of character and intense this is for me to be doing.

[Espeonage]

Ok look, I've already gone over that flub is a gut town read. I thinkit's tonal, I got asked about it earlier and answered. I've been pretty vocal about bulb being town and gray is making a lot of good lines therefore they both seem town.

Fakegod asked for time I see no real reason to not give it to him when I have a perfectly solid scum read I am trying to lynch, Xay has been solid, nothing to complain about there, Runner and you the jury is out on but I don't really care at this point because after yuri flips we can use relational tells to catch the last scum so it doesn't even matter.

Does that satisfy you? And will you now lynch the scum? Because currently your argument of what is yuri flips town is not relevant to me because she is not going to flip town.

[Espeonage]

I mean, just because you seem convinced that Yuri is scum that doesn't mean that's what she'll flip.

I would happily stake many things on yuri being scum rn.

Also look at how willing you are to think I think fakegod is town. I don't have a fakegod read, because it is just asking for trouble to try and read someone off purposeful non involvement. I can probably fabricate reads for you if you want me to lie to so much. Would you like me to make you a reads list and put in what I want you to think I am reading everyone as. Because I can probably do that. But what I'm trying to tell you is that my reads on other people at this point aren't worth sharing because I'm not going to settle for a lynch on anyone else. I would actually rather scum has no idea what my reads are outside what I have to give to be a part of the game, considering the context.

So tl;dr. Would you like me to lie to you, or would you rather lynch yuri? Those are your choices.

[Espeonage]

I don't believe I have played with you before? What games were they?

Poke U-pick was the most recent I think, but it's been a few times at least.

[Espeonage]

Are you annoyed at me or actually scum reading me?

[Espeonage]

I would happily stake many things on yuri being scum rn.

Your life?

My life in this game? I'd stake that.

[Espeonage]

I've done it before but it's not common.

[Espeonage]

Yuri seems town. Is this her usual scum game?

You need to explain this. Like incredibly thoroughly.

[Espeonage]

non-involved is maybe inaccurate, he wants to be left for a while for data gathering purposes and I am willing to wait until such a time that it will actually be fruitful to engage with him properly.

[Espeonage]

Basically he arrives at D2 with no reads and no prior posting on anybody but you.

I am willing to self vote if yuri flips town. If this wasn't open and there was a cop innocent on yuri I'd still want to lynch her and just assume she is a godfather.

And I actually gave you an accurate reads list before and have given reasoning behind a couple of town reads.

I do intend to be as infuriating though. People have a hard time hiding emotion when I'm playing like an arsehole, which tends to be useful.

[Espeonage]

I am willing to self vote if yuri flips town.

This statement should assay BBT's fears expressed in 435.

Waiting for BBT.

I expect that I'll be investigating myself n1 though. I'll vote, get told off by the mod and then have to reveal my result.

[Espeonage]

If you were reading between the lines I expect to be copped tonight. But completely seriously, if Yuri is town, I am evidently not fit to play this game at all.

Explain, and I don't care how long winded or convoluted it is, why she would deliberately mess with a direct quote for the sole purpose of trying to get a lynch on someone. No one who has done stuff like that has ever flipped town because the only motivation for doing it is to misrepresent someone.

Now people do misrepresent others as town, but that's because it is part of their town agenda. They probably already have the read and need more impetus to actually push it through. I can understand that, I don't agree with it, but I can understand that. However here we are talking, day 1, a few pages in, not much has happened, and she does it on someone out of the blue. Town yuri doesn't need to do shit like that, town yuri actively avoids doing shit like that because town yuri is interested in finding scum. Scum yuri needs people lynched, scum yuri sees an opportunity, scum yuri does it.

Sadly for scum yuri, I'm not having a bar of it.

[Espeonage]

btw I am p happy to self vote because if yuri is town then there is no point to even trying to play the game. Not just for me, for everyone.

[Espeonage]

Sorry what?

I must not have been reading because I didn't a) see that happen or b) see you accuse Yuri of doing that.

That's the entirety of my case on her. The entirety of it. What the fuck did you think I was on her about. That is the whole fucking thing.

[Espeonage]

The first line of 255 is directly relational to my main case in 106.

The reasoning for my original vote and other points pale in comparison to the case in 106.

So ok, there are some other minor points, but none of those are the reason I am lynching her.

Just read 106.

[Espeonage]

Yeah, I don't see why that makes her scum. Like, help me out here.

She cuts your post down to the part that she wants to respond to. I do that all the time...

I explain it in my post. Because the rest of my post has contextual information that is then omitted.

[Espeonage]

No I haven't caught up but I think it's important to get this straight. Is everyone currently on my wagon voting me because of what espe is saying I am doing? Is it really that bad I should be lunched (because of it)?

This most certainly concerns this game but it also concerns my credibility as a player of mafia (the game).

It's got less to do about your credibility than that you are happy to play against your win con.

[Espeonage]

Doc can confirm someone as town if no one died.

[Espeonage]

re: Night Actions

Scum has no reason to forgo a night kill, so it's very likely that the doc made a save last night.

Also, given the way I played day 1, I wouldn't be surprised if I was targeted by all three, cop, doc, and the scum last night, which was what I was aiming for with my play.

Because when the PR targets synchronize in this setup, scum gets wrecked.

As a note, I would have docced Grey, Copped myself and shot Bulba, if I were each of those three roles. I probably would have roleblocked you though.

[Espeonage]

I am a decent lynch option tbh.

I'll get to stuff soonish. FG's claim that he should have been targetting by things is both wrong and sits terribly with me.

[Espeonage]

I don't see why Esp is the obvious play today?

Weren't you here when he bet his life that Yuriko was scum?

This.

I need to die either today or tomorrow to avoid town being sidetracked. I'm not going to stop my lines of inquiry though.

[Espeonage]

Fakegod, what do you make of my claims on actions I would have performed as each power?

As a side note. I'm going to get white knighted today. Runner's stance is the weirdest so far, flubs makes sense.

[Espeonage]

At least let me finish my line with FG.

[Espeonage]

Oooooo, such pressure. There isn't even an expression of intent yet.

FG looking bad.

(In case of snap lynch, BBT is probably town, not assuredly, but probably. I think he's being daft on me, but then I saw being daft on yuri so I can't judge)

[Espeonage]

^he's right.

Tbh it should have been pretty clear I wasn't a pr.

[Espeonage]

Ok fakegod, if I flip town, who is scum?

Humor me until you get a bite on the hammer.

[Espeonage]

Mostly his idea that he should have been targetted by things.

[Espeonage]

In terms of scum yeah. I only really have townreads so I'm working backwards.

[Espeonage]

It just sparks me as really odd that someone who played incredibly reserved day 1 would come out day 2 and announce they they should have been the target of a bunch of roles. Because it's just false, and so I'm tossing around motivations in my head at the moment.

The white knight seems left field. Which is why I think flub is more likely to be town.

[Espeonage]

Flub and Runner for the white knight, however it's entirely possible that it is actual stances.

out of left field is a common expression meaning out of nowhere.

[Espeonage]

All right, lets go

Vote: Fakegod

[Espeonage]

I agree with many of your points there, however the second last one is asking me to play anti-town, which is bad.

I just go about everything differently. If you'll notice three years ago, it didn't matter how accurate my reads were, no one ever listened to me. I had to drastically change the way I played until people actually started listening to me.

[Espeonage]

Bulb, what are you doing?

[Espeonage]

This is an open set up bulb.

-.-

[Espeonage]

Also I am 3 from 3 as jester. If I was a jester I would have already won.

[Espeonage]

Willing to vote/hammer/lynch whatever esp but not just yet

I'm not L-1 any more.

[Espeonage]

I don't think leaving the game without working out proper reads will help anyone on day 3 and beyond.

[Espeonage]

I don't think leaving the game without working out proper reads will help anyone on day 3 and beyond.

i stared at your iso pretty long, and i don't see very proper reads

i mean, i know you think fg is scum but i'm not 100% sure besides: not scumhunting much, claiming he should have been targeted by night actions

and that runner is scum also?

maybe reshare these reads with me because i may be blind

The runner thing was based on the theory that scum try to split themselves across viewpoints. It's a weak scum read. The recent sticking out of his neck has made me less inclined on it.

The thing with fakegod's claim of night actions is because he's trying to set himself up as important when at this point in the game, he really isn't.

[Espeonage]

That's really interesting.

[Espeonage]

It shows a development of reads.

[Espeonage]

Setting up mislynches, this is interesting.

[Espeonage]

I was sure beyond a shadow of a doubt.

When, before now, has anyone ever deliberately misquoted someone to try and get them lynched as town that early in the game without and agenda. Because as far as I was concerned that meant 100% yuri had to be scum because otherwise it was blatantly playing against her win condition.

What use would begging do, we have a game to play and shit has to get done. I fully expected to be lynched, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing my duty as town.

[Espeonage]

Explain to me how playing against the town wincon means someone is town.

AGAINST THE TOWN WIN CONDITION.

[Espeonage]

And of course I have no shame over it. As far as I'm concerned until the above question is answered I hold no blame for that misslynch.

[Espeonage]

shrug

Xay's reach out to BBT makes no sense. You are still top scum read.

The fact that you unvoted when you did supports the idea that you felt Xay was going to hammer pretty quickly. Whether that is because you are buddies, or don't want to be lynched off the back of my flip remains to be seen.

Still top scum read by far.

[Espeonage]

I do have a niggling feeling that bulb is playing too heavy handed though.

PEDIT: Inno on bulb then? Given your list?

[Espeonage]

k fair

[Espeonage]

Unvote

lol forgot that

[Espeonage]

Can I put $5 on fakegod has a guilty on Xay.

[Espeonage]

Actually, of the people that aren't dead Xay, myself and BBT were the only decent targets.

[Espeonage]

The premature claim is what makes me think it's a guilty somewhere.

[Espeonage]

I lied about that.

The blatant way I was softclaiming, I was a much better nightkill target.

grey and bulb were the good nightkill targets. Neither of you were.

[Espeonage]

Well you bet on me runner, so we each owe $5?

[Espeonage]

I want to flip Runner.

Don't particularly read him as scum, but it's an informative flip.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Runner

[Espeonage]

Good news is that scum have no good shots tonight regardless of who we flip.

[Espeonage]

Fakegod, I don't have time to do any meta diving, and I hate meta regardless, but I feel someone needs to do some diving on bulba.

Seeing as you aren't going to die tonight and are confirmed town, I'm electing you to do it.

[Espeonage]

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: Xay

Okays time to hold the turnaround from day 1 accountable.

[Espeonage]

Do a search of 'yuri' in his iso. Then look at the posting to bring him in to day 2. You'll see what I mean.

I'd rather people find it for themselves after how yuri ended up.

[Espeonage]

Prodded, was vla will get to this.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Runner

No energy to do the case on xay I was gonna do and tso is just gonna say "idk man not my shit"

[Espeonage]

I will be honest, I voted you because you had the most votes and I cbf trying with only a few days left. I actually think you are pretty town. Your play this day phase has been very townie, which is in contrast to and overtakes the issues I had with you before that.

[Espeonage]

Would a wagon on me catch?

Like I'm not the doc, but you could be, and I'm townreading you, so better to lynch an assured vt than a probably vt.

Unvote

[Espeonage]

Vote: Espe

[Espeonage]

Would a wagon on me catch?

Like I'm not the doc, but you could be, and I'm townreading you, so better to lynch an assured vt than a probably vt.

Unvote

Damn Espeonage, I have no idea what you're trying to do to me here.

If I agree and jump on your wagon, that confirms me as doctor.

If I disagree then that means I'm VT and narrows down the pool of townies who could be doc.

Either way... a better vote than either me or you, from your perspective should be BBT! I don't understand your unwillingness to vote him! It's better to lynch someone who might be scum rather than yourself, an assured VT from your point of view.

If we end up not lynching today that's almost certainly going to take us to MyLo tomorrow, and then LyLo the day after, assuming we NL tomorrow. That means we lose 2 townies for nothing, and have nothing to work off of for LyLo.

Everyone, for the love of mafia, get your shit together. Now.

Vote me for wifom?

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: BBT

Fakegod bringing up the friction of the wagon actually raises a good point. Should there have been wide friction.

[Espeonage]

If the doc got blocked, please claim so we have the assured town read.

If not then don't claim. (Why would scum shoot FG anyway)

[Espeonage]

I think it goes without saying that I think FakeGod's death was the removal of, as well as the only conftown, a BBT voter but wifom etc etc.

LOL. Yeah, his death had nothing to do with him being cop right?

This does feel town-slip-y to me. From Runner that is.

[Espeonage]

Should be explicitly noted that it is mylo today. Thinking doc should claim regardless, maybe, open to criticism on that.

I am against lynching Runner. Other four are fair game, TSO is preferred lynch for Xay reasons.

Bulb is starting to make me regret how trigger happy I was with the town read.
BBT is unreadable for me atm.
Flub's felt town for a while but not solidly.

Money on a scumteam right now TSO and BBT but that's really weak reads.

[Espeonage]

Really? Is that what we're calling town slips nowadays?

I mean, we could easily delve into WIFOM but I don't think I'll bother.

Runner has been fairly clear in speech though. Strongest townread. You can't disregard how town he was yesterday either.

[Espeonage]

You don't rise to my being a dick therefore it's difficult for me to read you either way.

[Espeonage]

I will have a look though. Like I have to, but procrastination etc.

[Espeonage]

Are you going to try and hedge your bets or you putting all your faith in me?

[Espeonage]

In all seriousness though, were I scum I would have bussed the fuck out of my partner as an aside on day one in readiness for day 2 theater after I shoved the yuri lynch through. Because I would have lynched yuri either alignment.

[Espeonage]

Hit it in one. Because once people have stances I get to tell them their wrong and then they get mad and then we find the real scum. TADA!

[Espeonage]

Think of it as me playing for future games.

[Espeonage]

Good news is that if I am right on Runner and I am pretty damn sure (I like to ignore my past failings) then that means I have a 50% shot at hitting scum, so any twinge for me should lead to an accurate scum read.

Which is why I want TSO lynched.

[Espeonage]

Oh man, imagine if scum took the pot shot on Fakegod and blocked who they thought was doc, but it was fake crumbs and then the real docs finds the fake crumbs and protects that person and we have no kill. That shit would make my fucking day.

[Espeonage]

Except when you look at Xay's iso. His day 2 play is in stark contrast to the day 1 play. He became hypocritical and no one called him out on it. I only found it just before he replaced out.

[Espeonage]

In that, pushing people based on what I was doing that I saw as scummy in my own play because shit I'm scum so I can use that because the fact that I did it as scum and it was scummy means others will see it as scummy too.

Basically he was a large pusher of Yuri too and backed me, but unvoted as the wagon built so that it wouldn't show up on VCA.

[Espeonage]

And then he jumped back on yuri. Point is he was pushing yuri, for most of the day. And then day two comes around, wipes his hands clean of it and get stuck in to lynching me for being on yuri.

[Espeonage]

Fakegod's stances made sense and the progression of play made sense. He was always going to turn and was only there because of how insistent my pushing was. It was completely different.

[Espeonage]

Issue is that scum may know who doc is bc of fakegod dying.

[Espeonage]

Vote: No Lynch