Micro 544: A Midnight Sun, Part 2 ~game over~

[Jin and Mugen]

VOTE: Soren

Did not like that confirm and then magically showing up as soon as the threads open.

[Jin and Mugen]

VOTE: Soren

Did not like that confirm and then magically showing up as soon as the threads open.

Mugen=crazy unpredictable guy
Jin=calm collected guy

I'll leave it to you to guess who is who

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Soren wagon is good.

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

That's a serious post, FYI.

He's stiff.

[Jin and Mugen]

VOTE: other head

There's a difference between fast RVS and accidently turbo lynching and cutting off info.

Your campaigning for our lynch before we even post is weird as well.~Titus

Really meh on this too.

[Jin and Mugen]

@Soren - That would be my other head who voted you, so you'll have to wait on Mugen/LQ for your answer. I'm not going to explain my read in depth right now because I want to get people's opinions on it for future note. Also, good to see you again!

@Iron Giant - I'm curious, which one of you is posting right now? Kinda maters to my read. Thanks!

So far, the people I kinda like out of this are Other Head, and maybe Spiffah. (The timing on the vote is okay, even if I don't feel a Suz lynch) Iron Giant might be, but I want to know about the heads, just because I'm using some individual tells right now to reach that conclusion.

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

Soren I find is pretty stiff usually anyways.
That would be a null tell my friend.

-Fire, vedith is the scum head guys.

I've always found him a bit careless & fluffy, honestly. Like, he does try to play the game seriously & all, but this is a bit straightfoward & tryhardish for him.

[Jin and Mugen]

Yeah, Iron can lean Town, at least for now. Maybe they're a little careless, but I'll let it go for now.

[Jin and Mugen]

Soren wagon is good.

~Jin.

You didn't answer my question.
And here you're saying the wagon on me is good when there is only one vote on me?

That's a serious post, FYI.

He's stiff.

Stiff meaning what exactly?

VOTE: other head

There's a difference between fast RVS and accidently turbo lynching and cutting off info.

Your campaigning for our lynch before we even post is weird as well.~Titus

Really meh on this too.

Another post from you expressing your attitude toward things but not explaining your attitude towards it. I agree with the post because the distinction she brought up is good. So I'm curious to hear what you find meh about it.

@post 17 soren:

He's obvtown for showing concern that we'd derp and quicklynch without realizing how low the threshold to lynch is. Scum wouldn't give a shit because it'd be beneficial...unless delen is scum with him.

It's ~something~

You're right to say that scum wouldn't care much because it's beneficial. But isn't that a naive way to approach how scum would play? Surely a good scum player would say what Edgar said to gain town cred, like what you gave to him. I get what you're saying, but to go as extreme to call it obvtown, I find concerning, I wold only go so far as to say that it gives me town leans.

Also it wasnt...really a contradiction and he didn't back off the wagon, he was never on it.

I stopped being a contradiction once he qualified that the scenario was different: can't have fast rvs wagons when you're playing a micro.

I suppose there is some truth to what you are saying, I guess our opinion on this just differs slightly.

This entire post is way too defensive and not enough gamesolvey.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

VOTE: Soren

Did not like that confirm and then magically showing up as soon as the threads open.

What confirm?

So, like, I'm waiting days and days for this game to start and you do nothing to make that happen. It was a suspicion that you were chatting it up in the Scum PT.

[Jin and Mugen]

I like Spiffeh as town even though I don't see the ping.

[Jin and Mugen]

I like Spiffeh as town even though I don't see the ping.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Mugen = LQ right?

LQ why are you town reading me already?

I am now realizing the same slot said they were townreading me and it is less people than I thought but I still want an answer.

Cuz you noticed something, and commented on it and only that it was a ping. I read that as town coming from you.

[Jin and Mugen]

It's a weird world in which I have the most posts at this stage of the game, guys.

*Elbows Fire & Titus*

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

Well that was fast!

[Jin and Mugen]

Curious what you actually think, Fire?

[Jin and Mugen]

It's probably a bit early to ask for an overview, but I'm curious about Titus & Soren specifically.

Suz is hard to read tone from period. (P-Edit - ...Great minds...) I'm just giving her time to give me something useful to actually read her. I may 'bully' her to let me in her head again, if she doesn't make it easy. Once is enough.

[Jin and Mugen]

Iron Giant would be interesting too.

[Jin and Mugen]

I"m liking what I think is coming from Elbirn. I can be bad at reading hydras, and failing to sign is a pet peeve of mine, for all that I get ranted at about how I 'ought to know.' This is primarily where my hesitation comes from, since I don't really have a strong read on Shiro yet.

I'm generally pretty decent at reading Titus, even if I'm not perfect. I don't like her opener post - it took the wagon on her way too seriously for this stage of the game. I kinda want to see more from her, because I'm a little uncomfortable with that start. Klingon is kinda Null, because again, I don't feel I have as strong a read on her quite yet.

I'm pretty sharply in disagreement with you on Soren. I've seen him as Town twice, both times as mislynch bait, and he had a really different attitude. He was kinda light & fluffy, and not always on point, but it was a cheerful, relaxed attitude. I won't go so far to say that he didn't care what anyone thought of him, but here...it's like he's checking off a list consciously.

I also find his disappearance aggravating. I don't see how you can say that he didn't try as scum, and consider his play to be better than that.

In other words, his play is too 'try-hardish' in the same sense Elbirn was in Midnight Sun #1. He's doing stuff that looks 'Town', in the sense that people tend to Townread that sort of thing, (as a resident try but is not what I'm used to expecting from him. So far, he's picking apart play for being 'weird' rather than analyzing it. Hence the scumread. Both heads are agreement as of the last time I chatted with LQ. (No, he hasn't explained exactly what his first post was about. Our thread looks a bit like the neighborhood thread I was sharing with Molla.)

You're probably okay for Town. I need to digest our conversation a bit, but it's a nice start. I do want you in my corner soonish, preferably.

I think Soren's a moderate scumread, Delenn is a mild ping, Spiffeh's doing okay for all that their reaction could be faked.

Early reads? Yes, but I kinda feel like sorting through stuff this time. I've kinda played low key for the last two games, and I'm ready to brawl a little.

[Jin and Mugen]

I am leaning on town with you Jin and Mugen.

Is it bad that I read this as "I'm about to 180 & scumread you guys in about a week or so"?

[Jin and Mugen]

In other words, his play is too 'try-hardish' in the same sense Elbirn was in Midnight Sun #1. He's doing stuff that looks 'Town', in the sense that people tend to Townread that sort of thing, (as a resident try

hard, I'm pretty keenly aware just how many Townpoints you get for effort. )

but is not what I'm used to expecting from him. So far, he's picking apart play for being 'weird' rather than analyzing it. Hence the scumread. Both heads are agreement as of the last time I chatted with LQ. (No, he hasn't explained exactly what his first post was about. Our thread looks a bit like the neighborhood thread I was sharing with Molla.)

Fixed in bold.

[Jin and Mugen]

We need to hear more of Edgar Allan Poe and My Milked Eek.
I don't think both of them are scum, but I think if we can sort them.

The harder to read players will fall in line of being easier to read once we figure out the lurkers.

Agreed.

[Jin and Mugen]

Also, Titus, I'm particularly curious to get your read on me. (Vyse)

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

Went through his ISO. Don't really care much about the Suz vote, but eh. I'll leave that to Mugen, if he wants to jump on it.

Post #26 is technically Null by itself, but it set up for a small pattern that caught my interest. He's a bit technical & by the book in this post, and the change in tone from my prior experience with Soren is enough to bug me by itself anyway. Vote to pressure here.

Soren wagon is good.

~Jin.

You didn't answer my question.
And here you're saying the wagon on me is good when there is only one vote on me?

Curious what the point of bringing up whether or not you were being wagoned was?

Also, again, different heads.

Taking a step into analytical mode, this is basically a challenge, coupled with either a pointless question or bluster, depending. When I say he's playing too much 'by the book', I'm referring to points like that wagon question, which strike me more as him trying to hit a perceived flaw in my play rather than trying to figure it out. M'kay. So Soren's playing offense here, which is interesting. He feels a little more prepared than I would give him credit for, but he's been scumread as Town so much I'll give him some slack here.

That's a serious post, FYI.

He's stiff.

Stiff meaning what exactly?

Stiff meaning that you're giving me the impression of someone who wants to do "Town Things(tm)", rather than sorting through the game.

I'd kinda like to see you here & trying to deal with this, honestly.

VOTE: other head

There's a difference between fast RVS and accidently turbo lynching and cutting off info.

Your campaigning for our lynch before we even post is weird as well.~Titus

Really meh on this too.

Another post from you expressing your attitude toward things but not explaining your attitude towards it. I agree with the post because the distinction she brought up is good. So I'm curious to hear what you find meh about it.[/quote]

Because it's a bit of an unrealistic take on the situation. Titus does have instances where she gets too wrapped up in a theory, and she seems to dislike bad play a fair bit, so I'm less confident on this read at the moment. Hence why my vote is on you now.

I actually like the question at the end, just because it's a little awkward, but it still fits into the other pattern. This amounts to "You are not explaining your reads. I find this odd. Explain." Except there's an aggressive undertone where I feel that he'd vote me in a heart beat if others let themselves get caught up in my gutreads.

@post 17 soren:

He's obvtown for showing concern that we'd derp and quicklynch without realizing how low the threshold to lynch is. Scum wouldn't give a shit because it'd be beneficial...unless delen is scum with him.

It's ~something~

You're right to say that scum wouldn't care much because it's beneficial. But isn't that a naive way to approach how scum would play? Surely a good scum player would say what Edgar said to gain town cred, like what you gave to him. I get what you're saying, but to go as extreme to call it obvtown, I find concerning, I wold only go so far as to say that it gives me town leans.

Good day, good sir! I do admire your formal attire, but is it not a trifle...stiff? Pray tell, is this some sort of momentous occasion, that we dare not speak in casual terms, lest our natures been found wanting?

Really, it's not

what

Soren's saying that's pinging me, (He's technically right, actually.) it's the fact that a player I know to be a bit on the relaxed, fluffy side is suddenly playing 'by the book', so to speak. The most likely explanation that comes to mind is that he wants the Towncred that comes with that playstyle. Basically, I'm after Soren based on tone & timing.

Also, I'm meh on how he's phrasing his stand here, in that he's avoiding disagreeing with the Iron Giant.

---

This isn't the 'be-all, end-all' case to prove Soren's scum, but he's managing to ping me on a number of points, and I'm happy with where my vote is at present. I certainly want to see him get in here and play with us.

Anyone want to join in the meantime? The water's great.

[Jin and Mugen]

You can figure who is who ^_^

I can tell Shiro posts apart from Elbirn posts anyday!

To be fair, this is pretty obviously Shiro's, even to me. Between the smilie & phrasing

[Jin and Mugen]

Soren I think I have handle on his town and scum meta. This is his town game .

Would it be too mean to say Elbirn, Midnight Sun #1?

[Jin and Mugen]

All of the above on this page, and the post elbowing Titus & Fire was mine.(Vyse)

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

...Thoughts on my thoughts, Fire? :/

Heading for bead. I expect a 20,000 word essay to be waiting for me in the morning. Your subjects are: How awesome & Town J&M are, and how much you agree. TY.

[Jin and Mugen]

My god J&M are so town it is hurting me.

Fire what is up with the lack of antics.

Vote:MME

^Needs to participat

His antics have been there, just not quite as prevalent.

MME def needs to do something. So does Soren, and fast like, cuz if they're not here soon I will think they are scumming it up in a PT somewhere.

I totally agree with Jin on this.

And you can get townie points for saying we are uber town already.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

It seems a page has escaped me. I will read what soren says there and see if its enough to re-evaluate.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

It's weird to realize that this topic registers as being 'read' without me reading it.

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

Spoiler:

Soren wagon is good.

~Jin.

You didn't answer my question.
And here you're saying the wagon on me is good when there is only one vote on me?

That's a serious post, FYI.

He's stiff.

Stiff meaning what exactly?

VOTE: other head

There's a difference between fast RVS and accidently turbo lynching and cutting off info.

Your campaigning for our lynch before we even post is weird as well.~Titus

Really meh on this too.

Another post from you expressing your attitude toward things but not explaining your attitude towards it. I agree with the post because the distinction she brought up is good. So I'm curious to hear what you find meh about it.

@post 17 soren:

He's obvtown for showing concern that we'd derp and quicklynch without realizing how low the threshold to lynch is. Scum wouldn't give a shit because it'd be beneficial...unless delen is scum with him.

It's ~something~

You're right to say that scum wouldn't care much because it's beneficial. But isn't that a naive way to approach how scum would play? Surely a good scum player would say what Edgar said to gain town cred, like what you gave to him. I get what you're saying, but to go as extreme to call it obvtown, I find concerning, I wold only go so far as to say that it gives me town leans.

Also it wasnt...really a contradiction and he didn't back off the wagon, he was never on it.

I stopped being a contradiction once he qualified that the scenario was different: can't have fast rvs wagons when you're playing a micro.

I suppose there is some truth to what you are saying, I guess our opinion on this just differs slightly.

This entire post is way too defensive and not enough gamesolvey.

~Mugen

To solve the game, one must first take a step into the game. That is me taking a step into the game.

K, but it looks like you're just dipping your toe in the water in that post while trying to look like you are doing a lot more than you really are.

VOTE: Soren

Did not like that confirm and then magically showing up as soon as the threads open.

What confirm?

So, like, I'm waiting days and days for this game to start and you do nothing to make that happen. It was a suspicion that you were chatting it up in the Scum PT.

Okay I get what you're saying now. I did not even know that we had to confirm for the game. My role PM didn't tell me that I had to confirm my role. Nor did my role PM contain the game thread and I wasn't bothered to go look for the game thread on my own. And now I just checked the OP and second post of the game thread and low and behold it tells me to confirm my role in the second post. I did not see this prior to the game start because 1, my role pm didn't mention anything about confirming and 2, my role pm didn't contain a link to the game thread, therefore I didn't see that I had confirm my role. I was confused that I didn't had to confirm my role like I have to do in other games, I too lazy to ask the mod and just assumed that I'll get notified once the game started, which I did. I too was waiting and wondering when the game would start.

Right. And it can't be proven one way or another except if I ask you this following question and you give a shit answer.

How many games have you played where you don't have to confirm? What kind of games are they typically? Why exactly did you feel no compulsion to check to see if you needed to confirm or not? Why didn't you read the OP in this very experimental setup? Its things like this that really make me go "Huh????"

[Jin and Mugen]

~Mugen.

[Jin and Mugen]

Given that Delenn is Titus and Kling I am surprised there is not more from them, at least about game theory or what the town should do to win. I would love to see how more posts from that person.

I agree with this. All I re call them doing is getting defensive over me question Edgar.

-Vedith

Klingon here. Sorry for not being around, crazy busy weekend.

Anyway, briefly, Titus sees Jin and Mugen as Town, I'm more nullish.

We're only 4 pages in, so I can't expect much, but I'm a bit worried about Suzune... There's the slightest pinging sound when I read her posts.

I don't remember getting defensive, that must have been the Titus head. Funny that Edgar isn't around after only 1 post...

That's a very non-committal read on Suzune. But it looks like a few people are not liking Suzune this game so maybe that should be explored a bit.

Suzune, I'd like your read on Soren please.

[Jin and Mugen]

Heya, Vyse here. I'm having issues with my laptop, but I think it's okay for now. I'm just going to get out a couple questions before I hit the sack.

@Delenn - I'm curious why Titus is Townreading us? Is LQ's play or my own that she likes? Or is it both of us? Also, thoughts on Soren would be nice.

@Soren - Can you link me to some of these recent games? Preferably a Town & a Scum game if possible. I'm probably just going to skim over your ISO, but it'd be nice to get a feel for your playstyle & thought process for comparison.

Also, maybe you can start giving an overview of your thoughts, please? I'd rather see you entering the water from that point right now.

@Suzune - Hey, remember in Midnight Sun #1, when you were talking about your head being a bit of a battleground, and the like? I'd kinda like your first, unsorted impressions if you don't mind, please. The closer it is to explaining what you're feeling & thinking without being quite so distant, the better. (I'm probably going to insist actually, since it's probably the ground I feel most comfortable trying to read you on, and I really don't want to leave you on the Null backburner after MS #1.)

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

Iron Giant, can I get an overview from you as well? You gave out a couple easy Townreads & disappeared, and I'd rather like to keep reading you at this stage.

@Other Head - I'd really like you to flesh out your opinions on my opinions, if you would please.

I'm not inclined to let this go with you brushing it off as meta. At the very least, I want you to explain just what that meta means to you, please.

Anyway, I'm tired, and ready to crash, so night all.

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

Okay, so here is kind of what I am thinking from where I am standing now.

I find that this topic has a lot of unusual things going on in it and I find it really difficult to read having so many hyrdas playing because the person that is easier to read in my opinion can hide behind the less obvious one. Although I am hardly one to talk because I would have played this game with a hydra too. Therefore, my reads seems all over the place. This may look a little odd and they are not all long fleshed out kind of novels. The trick then to reading a hydra will be figuring out who is thinking what and how the words that are said effect the flow of the game.

If I'm following you correctly, you're asking for the hydras to sign more, so as to better read the individual heads, correct? (And yeah, this is my first hydra as well, and I understand your issues. I'm making a point of signing mine, as mentioned below.)

The Jin hydra is the most townie in my opinion. They push for active flow in the game, they post often and comment on just the right things. The only think I would be curious about is which are Vyse and which ones are LQ. I tend to read every single one as LQ. They sound like him so much and the way the conversations are going remind me of his posting behavior. There are a couple that sound like the analytical Vyse but they are overshadowed by the number that are LQ.

Actually, you might be surprised to know that the majority of the hydra posts are mine so far. I'm a heavy mixture of gut & analysis, and this game, partly because of who I'm playing with, and partly because I feel like being more active now, I'm writing a lot more of the stuff that comes to mind right off the top of my head. There's a vast difference between how I think, and what I actually show. (If I were purely analytical, I don't know that I'd have understood LQ as easily in the early MS #1 game. [Of course, that didn't stay true for the whole game, but you get the point, I hope.])

For future reference, any post signed "~Jin" means a Vyse post. It's a theme that LQ is a lot more familar with than I am, but I'm enjoying playing around with it. He signs as "Mugen". So far, all the unsigned posts immediately following a post signed Jin are also mine.

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

I had nightmares about mafia last night, although the majority of them were about my hydra partner...

Yeah, it really does suck. :/

I don't know if it's worth anything, but you're one of the people I've wanted to ask to hydra with before. At least, you seem like a fairly nice, intelligent person, and I think a hydra could be an interesting experience, both in terms of learning & just having fun. Maybe you'd be open to that sometime down the road? (This is Vyse again, FYI)

Suzune, I'd like your read on Soren please.

Hey, remember in Midnight Sun #1, when you were talking about your head being a bit of a battleground, and the like?

I might just info dump on you again LQ. My head is having such a hard time keeping all my games straight. I will put it in the post after this one so that I can get in the zone. I like this analogy too, I am going to have to remember it

Again, this was a Vyse post you were responding to.

[Jin and Mugen]

Delenn is a decent choice, I suppose, but I kinda want to chat with LQ about this one for a bit. There's a part of me that really wants to say that it's Soren/Delenn, but I'd rather like to see a bit more from the inactives. (Edgar & MME. MME's first vote is okay for a start, but more please?)

Sorry to be brief, I'm exhausted, and if you listen closely, you can hear my brain sizzling.

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

Clearly I just love the two of you so much that I have fused you into one person. I would love to try a hydra down the time with someone. I think it would be a very interesting experience.

For future reference, any post signed "~Jin" means a Vyse post. It's a theme that LQ is a lot more familar with than I am, but I'm enjoying playing around with it. He signs as "Mugen". So far, all the unsigned posts immediately following a post signed Jin are also mine.

Opps that means that I have wrongly called you too many times. Sorry about that~

I mean, I like LQ & all, but he's just not my type.

[Jin and Mugen]

I like Spiffeh and Suzune as Town lots.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Just as an FYI, the charger my laptop is using is dying, and I may lose access to the internet for a little while. Just a heads up. (Vyse here)

Soren and My Other Head Is Scum are town.
Jin and Mugen is townlean.
Delenn is null.
Iron Giant is scum lean.
Suzune is scum.

The rest of you haven't made a lasting impression but I still need to read the last few wall posts.

This really is Midnight Sun Part II, isn't it? >_<

Townread is nice & all, but why does nobody ever listen to my scumreads?

[Jin and Mugen]

Heya Other Edgar! (Mind if I ask who you are?)

IG is basically as close to Obv-Town at this point as I'm going to let anyone get. Let him buddy your heart.

~A Tired Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

Mugens reads list on page 7.
This is why I am the unpredictable one

Top Town:
Spiffeh - Didn't Scum read me for saying he's Town, so he's Town

Town:
Suzune - Playing the bait, wants to see if I will pressure her. Pretty likely Town
Edgar Allen Pro - Starting to really like that first post. Gives me good feels all over
Delenn - Like for Town and not going to go into detail right now
IG - Elb is acting like they don't have anything to lose

Null/Scum:
MOHIS - Here's my craziest read in this list: they are seeing eye to eye way too much and I don't like it one bit.
MME - Good content, but looks a bit feigned with the second posts at Delenn

Scum:
Soren - Tried to pull a "Yeah I did something Scummy, but you'll never catch me for it, nanana." Would lynch

Prolly 2 of these reads are wrong. On an aside, why do I get the feeling this is a 3:6 game?

[Jin and Mugen]

Heya Other Edgar! (Mind if I ask who you are?)

IG is basically as close to Obv-Town at this point as I'm going to let anyone get. Let him buddy your heart.

~A Tired Jin.

This is kind of an open secret:
I am not Varsoon.

One down, 18214 left to go!

Are you VysePresident?

FireBringer?

Elbirn?

LicketyQuickety?

[Jin and Mugen]

Heya, Vyse here.

I think I mentioned that my laptop's charging cable was dying. It appears to have happened, and if my random fiddling doesn't work anymore, I"m likely to be gone for about a week or so.

Sorry guys. Keep things going for me, please, LQ.

[Jin and Mugen]

Prod dodge from Vyse, thanks to some kind of black magic. LQ seems to be a bit indisposed due to IRL, and I'm still having computer issues.

Can we place the hydra on V/LA until the 9th?

My replacement cable & stuff should be in around that time, or at least not long after. (Stupid Dell models shouldn't need stuff that's so freaking hard to replace, grumbles)

[Jin and Mugen]

Ok, I'm going to need proof that this is a real gladiate.

~Mugen

If there is proof confirmed by the bod I will be voting Delenn.

[Jin and Mugen]

@Elb, it was a really poor play to initiate your ability so soon. That is why I am reevaluation my read on Delenn right now. If I find them to be a strong Town read, I will likely be voting you off for the weaker town to be eliminated, if for nothing else, Delenn could be PR and they have not used their ability yet. If it was just Titus, I would be voting them in a heartbeat, but there is Kling in the mix and that is likely changing things quite a bit.

@Delenn, really would hate you have your heads disagree on too much. Part of a fringe of my read on your slot is that you are getting along and seeing eye to eye.

~Mugen

Picking up Hydra Slips.

[Jin and Mugen]

None of the early stuff made you feel anything?

The only think that really stood out to me was the Iron Giant. The way he was talking was interesting but not really lynch worthy, but I got a good feeling from it. LQ usually stands out to be because of their style.

Just curious, what does this post mean, Suzune?

[Jin and Mugen]

~Jin (Yes, I'm able to get on occasionally after all, so far.)

[Jin and Mugen]

Sooooo Suzune's post still seem really stiff and forced to me so I'm keeping my vote for now.

I really do need to read this game but I can't rn

probably later this afternoon

I'm just curious, what are your thoughts on Suz right now if you factor in that she's

always

stiff & somewhat forced sounding?

(You can ask MOHIS, Delenn, Soren, and Iron Giant if you want confirmation of this.)

[Jin and Mugen]

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

Soren I find is pretty stiff usually anyways.
That would be a null tell my friend.

-Fire, vedith is the scum head guys.

VOTE: Other Head

Easiest game of my life we should do this more often Fire :p

Could you try to explain how you got to that conclusion?

Picking up post..

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

So this is varsoon and I have no fucking idea what's happening in this game.
Can someone get me up to speed?

Suuuuuurrrrrrrreeeeee......

Let me reread the thread and I'll give you a good rundown of what I am thinking...

Sound good?

Ofc you could always read the thread yourself and then I don't have to worry about filling you in..

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

I was half kidding in a way that was impossible to tell that I was kidding.

What I should have said is I'm going to reread the thread and see where we meet up if we do.

[Jin and Mugen]

OK, new reads.

Town:
IG
Soren
hiY
Edgar

Null:
Spiffeh
MOHIS
Delenn

Scum:
Suzune

VOTE: Suzune

[Jin and Mugen]

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Its just Mugen on this one.

Cuz you've done diddly Suzune. No stances made is a bad look for you.

[Jin and Mugen]

OK, new reads.

Town:
IG
Soren
hiY
Edgar

Null:
Spiffeh
MOHIS
Delenn

Scum:
Suzune

VOTE: Suzune

Heya, pal, can you get back to me in the QT, because...eh, this isn't my list right now.

[Jin and Mugen]

Its just Mugen on this one.

Cuz you've done diddly Suzune. No stances made is a bad look for you.

Actually I think suzie q looks pretty town here. What do you mean she hasn't made stances?

Fite me irl m8, we're lynching edgar or Delenn today

Edgar is not on the table for me. This wagon is ridiculous, and reminds me of the constant activity wagons I get on me all the time.

Delenn is second-stringer potential scum, but meh. If you guys are seriously going to call Soren HardTown to the death, then

We can lynch one of Soren/Delenn/HiY (Depending on his play down the road.), and maybe Suz, if LQ can warm me up to the idea. The rest are meh. YOu can talk with me about MOHIS, but that's something I'm not really feeling either right now.

Watching a movie with my family, and just realized I hadn't finished this earlier, so leaving it as is for now.
~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

WE're not going to have an easy time of this then, because you just put my major preferance off the table (I wish I'd get a little more credit after MS #1, please? I have yet to talk with LQ about his Townread, but honestly, I'm feeling really good on a Soren lynch, and am surprised at the resistance to it.)

At least the very least, I'll try and find time to flesh out my side shortly, but can you at least explain to me what's so Town about Soren?

[Jin and Mugen]

@Iron Giant - @Elbirn specifically - in post 191 you said, referring to Delenn "Anyway if their role is what I think it is its probably a scum role anyway."

Would you care to elaborate?

Also, Elbirn, I'd like to see a reads list from you, please.

I don't feel like role fishing. But if your role is a killing role of any kind I feel you're more likely scum, and titus' comment to me about we'd both be dead struck me as softing a killing role.

As for reads
Scum is in delenn/egar/soren(?)/spiffeh(???)

Everyone else is some degree of townread.

-Elbirn

Doing better. I would replace Edgar out with HiY, and make Soren/HiY my top picks. Spiffeh & Suz are tied for moving down, but not really scummy - I do want to see some actual suspicion-related content from Suz, and I want Spiffeh to expand on his thoughts, as basically everyone is saying.

I'm sorry for not engaging with the game more. As usual anymore, there's so darn much to do, and honestly, I'm kinda expecting this to be a bit of a fight.

[Jin and Mugen]

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

Initial thoughts on hiY's post is that I did not like it. It looked way too planned. IDK..

[Jin and Mugen]

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

If Spiffeh's replacement moves their vote from Suzune I'm posting a winner winner chicken dinner meme.

[Jin and Mugen]

Right, its silly. So no one should give a crap. Why do you?

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Suzune, just a little while ago you were saying it is silly. And now you're saying it is manipulation. Its true I said that for a reason. I wasn't expecting anyone to comment on it. The fact that you did is a little Sus to me. I was thinking if anyone comments on it it would be the replacement. I've had a hunch for a little while now that Spiffeh was voting you as a distancing tactic. The fact that you see what I said to even be an issue is very telling. Perhaps I am right and XSpiffeh and yourself are Scum after all...

Hmmm...

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Hi, I lost internet earlier, but I'm back. I'll be catching up in a bit.

~Jin

Picking this up.

[Jin and Mugen]

duppin replaces Spiffeh!

Adding 48 hours to the deadline.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2015-11-15 10:09:02)

Glad for this, and many thanks mod! I don't really feel like doing much tonight, but I'll try to get the reading segment done.

[Jin and Mugen]

Can we all agree on our lynch pool including Soren, Delenn, and Suzune, please?

I'm going to reread HiY before I figure out where I want to place him now.

[Jin and Mugen]

You're actually falling back on my list a bit, but you're still on it, and I would not be sad to see you flip. Soren's pretty much my preferance, and I'm moderately frustrated that it's so freaking hard to find support for this, but that's partly my fault for not fighting this one more. Hopefully I'll have the time & motivation soon enough.

In short, his timing on his engagement & disengagement, coupled with what he's said is still the best lead I see here. I'm pretty much firm on this read.

Don't care about Pro, and might even fight a Pro-Lynch hard if I see a few more things to support the pattern I think I'm seeing here.

And while I'll look at associatives, my primary method is always looking at individuals. I just do better that way, so eh.

[Jin and Mugen]

What about Mohis looks scum?

What's odd about the Soren/Suz dynamic?

[Jin and Mugen]

The heads are many in this game..

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Inductive reasoning is flawed because observed instances do not allows us to make claims about unobserved instances.
Just because his gut has been true in the past, doesn't mean his gut will also be true in the future.
Do you not have your own scum read?

I'm going to go ahead and adamantly disagree with this. While on a Meta sense, yes I would say you are right, but the thing is, our subconscious works miracles through Inductive reasoning and that's just how it is.

Picking up the essence of the way I get reads on people.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Soren

I lied I wanna sheep jin.

But jin if you could remind me why this is a good choice that'd be awesome

-Elbirn

@jin this post was intended as a query. Would you mind answering it? Please and thank you.

When I get back from work, sure. This is a bit more my read than LQ's now, so you'll probably have to wait on me.

[Jin and Mugen]

Inductive reasoning is flawed because observed instances do not allows us to make claims about unobserved instances.
Just because his gut has been true in the past, doesn't mean his gut will also be true in the future.
Do you not have your own scum read?

I'm going to go ahead and adamantly disagree with this. While on a Meta sense, yes I would say you are right, but the thing is, our subconscious works miracles through Inductive reasoning and that's just how it is.

Rationally it doesn't add up. It is human custom that makes you think so.

I couldn't give a shit if it makes rational sense. People put "rational thought" upon a pedestal and think that it is the be all end all for figuring stuff out. I disagree with that pretty strongly. When you're a replacement in you very first game and you guess the setup roles for a C9++ day 2 as a VT because of what you subconscious tells you what the setup is, then we can talk about how rational thought had everything to do with figuring that out.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

People only rely on their gut when they can't think rationally or, in better terms, have no rational basis to assume things.

Right, just like you assumed it was, how did you say it again(?), "It is human custom that makes you think so."

I don't think you really understand. I didn't read about this in some book and no one told me about it. It is by the fringe of things that I have been able to draw the conclusion that the subconscious is a powerful way to figure things out along with personal experience.

In all honestly I think YOU are the one who going by "human custom" and I am the free thinker in this debate.

[Jin and Mugen]

Zoolander.

[Jin and Mugen]

I'm not saying that drawing from your gut or your subconscious is wrong, but nor is it entirely right. I'm just saying that I would go for rationality over a gut feel any day.

Gut is the first stage of rationality, and the stage before doubt can screw you over. As one of the most analytical people in the room, gut deserves some serious respect, if you know how to use it. Patterns may not be objectively rational in many cases, and you can manipulate objective facts to inspire doubt easily, but they are one of the most useful tools I've found to date.

(Anecdotal version, I've had one game where I've quite literally pushed only Townies on gut/meta, a couple games where I've generally been more of a detriment to Town than a help, and almost a dozen where I've done extremely well, including a multiball game where I can 4-5 scum out of seven pegged right off the first day, and only three misread Townies - only one of which was a serious scumread. Gut works.)

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

M'kay, I'm here-ish. I've got some stuff going on, so this is going to be briefer than my typical analytical posts.

Really, I'm going to vote hop to Soren, though I'm staying in contact with LQ on this one. Some of his posts have me wondering, now, but I'm honestly more comfortable with him than most. MOHIS has fallen considerably in my estimation, and may be a valid lynch now. I will compromise on Soren, MOHIS, and Suz. I'm backing off of Delenn now, and I don't really remember what was bugging me about HiY. It may have been a carryover from my MME thoughts.

Edgar is not a lynch option. I'm a little wary of him in spots, but everything thrown against him so far is not a case, and what he's done leans notably more Town than not. My only hesitation is that both of them vaguely remind me of this one guy who's rather good at manipulating me. I'm not letting him out of my sights, but I'm very, very uninterested in lynching him with present information.

Iron Giant is pretty firmly Town in my book, and probably my most consistent Townread. I've been skeptical at points of how easily Elb threw out Towncred, but all in all, it fits with his somewhat 'looser' Town style, if that makes sense? I may also be a little flattered (and a little self-conscious) due to the 'magic gut' post.

Suz isn't Deftown, but she's okayish, for her. She's my compromise lynch choice, TBH, but meh.

MOHIS has dropped considerably in my estimation, and I would lynch them as well. If Soren flips Town, I may death tunnel them for white knighting when I see little in Soren's meta to create such a strong read, particularly from Fire. If Soren flips scum, I dunno, I'm taking a step back.

In other words, I want to start the puzzle with a MOHIS or a Soren lynch, and I think Soren is still better.

Sorry again for briefness. I'm sure you'll be able to live with only a couple thousand characters from me.

VOTE: Soren

[Jin and Mugen]

Jin what do you think of Iron's vote on me?

Believable. It's a little silly, but I like people sheeping me more than I like them ignoring me.

[Jin and Mugen]

Anyway, I am heavily thinking the lynch is either Iron Giant or Suzune today, and I rather lynch Iron Giant. Even though I like both of those heads, I just think they are more scummy.

-Fire

Suz is my last ditch, get something useful out of the day lynch.

Why Edgar again?

[Jin and Mugen]

Okay, I'm back. Sorry for being quiet this week, I had a project due at work and it was eating all my time. I should be back into the swing of it again.

Jin, I read your exchange with Soren as very tense. Almost like it was a fight over whether or not gut reads outweigh logical patterns. When there is no other direction to go, it is said you are to go with your gut because it picks up things you do not process. However, I think it would be unfair to yourself and the team if you only read people based on gut. This is just my opinion on the fight not on who was fighting.

Seriously all my games have gone down to the bitter end of the phase recently. My vote is sitting on Edgar, I would not be adverse to lynching Delann today, however I could compromise on Duppin if need be. MOHIS is a very difficult read for me.

Mugen did most of that. I was just adding that bit onto the end. I'm not mad - I don't really get mad normally in the course of a game. (I do get irked by some of the more...pronounced AtE that happens, but not for the long term.)

I do have strong feelings about gutreads, but it's more in terms of my own thoughts than anything remotely resembling anger.

[Jin and Mugen]

VOTE: Suzune that post pings me.

I can see your concern on it. It's like Suzune is back pedaling on that post and just adding to it which doesn't actually do much to further the game state. However, I would not be okay with that post if that's all she's doing so I want to see what other posts she is making further down the game. But at that time of your vote she didn't have other posts so your vote is justified.

@Soren - That would be my other head who voted you, so you'll have to wait on Mugen/LQ for your answer. I'm not going to explain my read in depth right now because I want to get people's opinions on it for future note. Also, good to see you again!
So far, the people I kinda like out of this are Other Head, and maybe Spiffah. (The timing on the vote is okay, even if I don't feel a Suz lynch) Iron Giant might be, but I want to know about the heads, just because I'm using some individual tells right now to reach that conclusion.

~Jin

Good to see you again too!
I disagree with those reads, or thoughts...? They seem to be saying that you have a town lean on them at least. Other Head hasn't done anything for me to call him town, elaborate please? (proof read activate, I town read him further down this post but at the time of your post, there wasn't anything that made me town read him) I can agree with the Spiffeh gut town lean (?) The vote is nice, but I want to see something more for that town lean to solidify.

Soren I find is pretty stiff usually anyways.
That would be a null tell my friend.

-Fire, vedith is the scum head guys.

I've always found him a bit careless & fluffy, honestly. Like, he does try to play the game seriously & all, but this is a bit straightfoward & tryhardish for him.

My fluffy days are over.

VOTE: Suzune that post pings me.

I just worry that with no one really talking the town will be unable to gain any ground. The worst thing we can do is stagnate before starting too look.

I don't know, I feel like to have the right to make a comment like that, you yourself will have to have instigated at least some discussion. I acknowledge that there hasn't been much in the game to comment, but I've been able to pick some things out that I wanted to understand further, and I'm sure there are things for you to pick out too. How do you feel about Iron Giant's obv town read in his 11?

Spoiler:

Soren wagon is good.

~Jin.

You didn't answer my question.
And here you're saying the wagon on me is good when there is only one vote on me?

That's a serious post, FYI.

He's stiff.

Stiff meaning what exactly?

VOTE: other head

There's a difference between fast RVS and accidently turbo lynching and cutting off info.

Your campaigning for our lynch before we even post is weird as well.~Titus

Really meh on this too.

Another post from you expressing your attitude toward things but not explaining your attitude towards it. I agree with the post because the distinction she brought up is good. So I'm curious to hear what you find meh about it.

@post 17 soren:

He's obvtown for showing concern that we'd derp and quicklynch without realizing how low the threshold to lynch is. Scum wouldn't give a shit because it'd be beneficial...unless delen is scum with him.

It's ~something~

You're right to say that scum wouldn't care much because it's beneficial. But isn't that a naive way to approach how scum would play? Surely a good scum player would say what Edgar said to gain town cred, like what you gave to him. I get what you're saying, but to go as extreme to call it obvtown, I find concerning, I wold only go so far as to say that it gives me town leans.

Also it wasnt...really a contradiction and he didn't back off the wagon, he was never on it.

I stopped being a contradiction once he qualified that the scenario was different: can't have fast rvs wagons when you're playing a micro.

I suppose there is some truth to what you are saying, I guess our opinion on this just differs slightly.

This entire post is way too defensive and not enough gamesolvey.

~Mugen

To solve the game, one must first take a step into the game. That is me taking a step into the game.

VOTE: Soren

Did not like that confirm and then magically showing up as soon as the threads open.

What confirm?

So, like, I'm waiting days and days for this game to start and you do nothing to make that happen. It was a suspicion that you were chatting it up in the Scum PT.

Okay I get what you're saying now. I did not even know that we had to confirm for the game. My role PM didn't tell me that I had to confirm my role. Nor did my role PM contain the game thread and I wasn't bothered to go look for the game thread on my own. And now I just checked the OP and second post of the game thread and low and behold it tells me to confirm my role in the second post. I did not see this prior to the game start because 1, my role pm didn't mention anything about confirming and 2, my role pm didn't contain a link to the game thread, therefore I didn't see that I had confirm my role. I was confused that I didn't had to confirm my role like I have to do in other games, I too lazy to ask the mod and just assumed that I'll get notified once the game started, which I did. I too was waiting and wondering when the game would start.

Why the fuck are people town reading me I have literally done nothing.

I find it really odd too.

Anyway I voted for Suzune because she opted to take the "town cheerleader" role instead of comment on anything going on. It looked like she was trying to endear herself to everyone with a "go team!" mindset.

Right, I can agree with this and I like your vote even more now.

None of the early stuff made you feel anything?

The only think that really stood out to me was the Iron Giant. The way he was talking was interesting but not really lynch worthy, but I got a good feeling from it. LQ usually stands out to be because of their style.

I don't like that it took Spiffeh questioning you for you to input your own independent thoughts into the game.

---

My Other Head Is Scum's string of posting in page 3 rings very town to me. He sort of casually plops himself into the game, this gives me town leans because scum tends to play more cautious to not reveal themselves. When you play casually you open yourself to more attacks as you can miss a lot of things. Regardless, after a few posts My Other Head Is Scum begins to post his reads and how he feels about the game. 56 I find this read to come from town. He's frustrated that he can't read someone and that frustration is giving me town leans. 61 and 62 are giving more reads and I'm liking them. It tells us how he's feeling about the players at this stage of the game and it's somewhere he will start the game from and work the game out from there.

I'm pretty sharply in disagreement with you on Soren. I've seen him as Town twice, both times as mislynch bait, and he had a really different attitude. He was kinda light & fluffy, and not always on point, but it was a cheerful, relaxed attitude. I won't go so far to say that he didn't care what anyone thought of him, but here...it's like he's checking off a list consciously.

I also find his disappearance aggravating. I don't see how you can say that he didn't try as scum, and consider his play to be better than that.

In other words, his play is too 'try-hardish' in the same sense Elbirn was in Midnight Sun #1. He's doing stuff that looks 'Town', in the sense that people tend to Townread that sort of thing, (as a resident try but is not what I'm used to expecting from him. So far, he's picking apart play for being 'weird' rather than analyzing it. Hence the scumread. Both heads are agreement as of the last time I chatted with LQ. (No, he hasn't explained exactly what his first post was about. Our thread looks a bit like the neighborhood thread I was sharing with Molla.)

I can understand where you're coming from with your meta read on me. But that was months ago, like 5 months even? Fire and Vedith has been in recent games with me. I took a break from mafia somewhere around july-mid september, I didn't like the ways I approached the game and not giving the games my attention. So I came back playing different now, I've decided to stop posting fluff and stay on topic. Fire and Vedith's meta read on me are more recent and therefore more reliable.

Curious what the point of bringing up whether or not you were being wagoned was?

Because it felt like you were commenting that the wagon on me was good when there wasn't a wagon on me.

Because it's a bit of an unrealistic take on the situation. Titus does have instances where she gets too wrapped up in a theory, and she seems to dislike bad play a fair bit, so I'm less confident on this read at the moment. Hence why my vote is on you now.

I disagree that it's an unrealistic take on the situation. I think it demonstrates a realistic scenario. Mostly because I have seen fast RVS votes, but never a turbo lynch on day 1. And when people are fast RVS voted to L-1, there's almost always someone who points it out and town jumps of the speed lynch and begins to evaluate the game more deeply. But I do agree on the titus read there.

Really, it's not what Soren's saying that's pinging me, (He's technically right, actually.) it's the fact that a player I know to be a bit on the relaxed, fluffy side is suddenly playing 'by the book', so to speak. The most likely explanation that comes to mind is that he wants the Towncred that comes with that playstyle. Basically, I'm after Soren based on tone & timing.
This isn't the 'be-all, end-all' case to prove Soren's scum, but he's managing to ping me on a number of points, and I'm happy with where my vote is at present. I certainly want to see him get in here and play with us.

You noticing these things about me is giving me town vibes. You have a good memory of our previous games and how I've played and you're looking at my play in this game and comparing to how I had played before, and it's different, and I like that you noticed that and are following up on it. Mainly because what you are focusing on is rather small, it's based on tone and timing instead of finding a certain thing that I'm doing to be particularly scummy. And you noticing that is telling me that you have a keen eye, you're looking at the game closely, you want to solve the game and you're starting with trying to solve me.

Also, I'm meh on how he's phrasing his stand here, in that he's avoiding disagreeing with the Iron Giant.

Well I don't 100% disagree with it. Rather I'm toning down his opinion on it.

---

So far my town leans are on Jin and Mugen, Spiffeh and My Other Head Is Scum. Rest are mostly null. And I'm keeping my vote on Suzune because of what I've said in this post. I need to see more from her before I decide to remove my vote. Right now I don't see where she is standing in the game.

K, so Soren (all their posts) look incredibly tryhard and missing the point to a lot that has been said. I don't know much about them, but I would figure them to be a competent individual. With that said, they look to be lacking a lot of what I look for in Town behavior. They haven't really said anything at all that screams Town to me, knowing what that usually looks like. They have really only been confrontational when it comes to a Scum read on them and they have fought fire with fire on most of it. (Sorry Fire/Vedith)

~Mugen

Picking this up for Mugen

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

Just meh on that one, Titus. They were okay in the beginning & trailed - and someone who does this as either alignment, I'd kinda like to see some stuff before I jump.

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

The fact that I am at risk of being lynched means one of two things

Either both scum are on my wagon or you're all stupid. I'm a mortician, gg on outing the most importantrole possible you smacked. Now unvote me.

In gentler terms, this is bad lynch based on nothing, and we really should get off of it.

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

@Soren - I just mentioned the only two games I've ever played where my gut didn't work out more often than it failed. (Maybe add McNinja to the pile as well.) I've also had games where I had no reads, due to failing to get involved in them, due to poor time management. This is out of more than a dozen games I've played. I've had games where I've read scum's motivation down to a T - they literally said exactly the same things in their QT that I later called them out on,

almost to the word.

I'm not a scumhunting god, and I'm not magic, but I'm

very

confident that there's something to pattern recognition & gutreads, because my scumhunting ratio is still pretty good, even after facing some much tougher opponents.

Again, this isn't meant to be nasty, but as someone who uses both methods, I can confirm that a well-trained gut

works

. Your dismissal of it is interesting, admittedly, because it's a bit new for you. You're telling me your trying to be more technical & all that, and that's all nice & well, but you aren't so inexperienced as not to have seen Town sheep Town without *Reasons*. Your push on them for that, for supposed

bad play

, is telling. It's something I see scum do so much to get an easy lynch, it's one of the very few things I'd consider a legitimate scumtell. (And there are people I defer to as Town, in a similar way, who probably deserve it a lot more than I do. It's not something I'm unfamiliar with. I don't think you're so fully unfamiliar with it either.)

Of course, I do find your push on Iron Giant to be even more suspect, regardless of his claim & the like. It was just a bad push, for much the same reasons Elbirn's push on Klingon was bad last game. (Except that this time, Elb is Town, unlike Klingon that game.)

And if there's any doubt, I care very little about Elbirn's claim - it merely serves as extra weight to the read I had on him. Y'know, my gutread that he was Town.

Finally...honestly dude, the fact that you're focused on dismissing me over scumreading me - despite me being a constant advocate against you, and not always offering my reasoning in a perfectly coherent manner....well...this is very unusual behavior from the type of player you're trying to present yourself as here. It occurs to me that I'm currently borderline unlynchable, until at least a phase or two down the road, while Iron Giant is presenting a more appealing target right now...

[Jin and Mugen]

By more than a dozen games played, I mean a dozen games

actively

played to the best of my ability. I've counted, and the total is something like just shy of 20, and most of them were large.

Just saying for what that's worth.

[Jin and Mugen]

Y'know, if I'd posted my first silly-gleeful post, I'd not blame you for thinking I was bussing. It was a little over the top.

I'm just glad to know I'm back on track. My last Town games have been poor, with some exceptions in MS #1. Credit to LQ too, because he saw it before me.

Now, here's the list of people I won't lynch today: Iron Giant. Edgar.

Delenn, and maybe MOHIS are my top choices at the moment.

[Jin and Mugen]

Odd?

EAP mostly has a coherent thought process that reads Town. He strikes me as good enough to fake that, but given our penchant to keep quick wagoning him, I really want to kill as much enthusiasm for this wagon as possible, because more likely than not, it's going to get in the way of the one I want to push. I see no red flags telling me that he's scum, and plenty to tell me this wagon is bad. So let's avoid it for now, please.

[Jin and Mugen]

Soren strikes me as being the type of player who doesn't have a very strong ability to read players' thought processes, and leans a bit on making observations as Town. His scumtells here were that he couldn't push a lynch in a way that feels particularly genuine. His mislynch pushes are likely to be semi-aggressive moves based on perceived weaknesses in a person's play. There's a reason he avoided taking on myself & LQ despite us being the most consistent people to push him, given that we were both widely Townread, and I'm pretty sure he didn't want to get into a fight with us.

I don't think he's likely to talk about a scumbuddy unprompted, but would throw a meaningless nothing comment against them. His reaction to the fake gladiate puts Delenn in a bad light.

My thoughts on his push on Suz are mixed, given that I don't know if he was aware how unseriously his vote would be taken. It's not moving me towards or against Suzune, at least not on memory.

My opinion on MOHIS leans a bit less scum now that Soren flipped, but I'm not sure. I don't entirely like everything they've done, but I was only ready to death tunnel them if Soren flipped Town. Now I'm not so sure.

I don't think he'd actively bus a teammate, unless he was trying really hard to be clever.

[Jin and Mugen]

Sooo, Vedith, talk to me about what the heck Fire & yourself are thinking, please.

Fire, please feel free to also talk about the heck you & Vedith are thinking.

Thanks!

[Jin and Mugen]

Two of Delnn, Mohis and yourself. Maybe look again at Hi I'm Yakko.

As to which two would be first, I'm just letting you guys talk right now.

[Jin and Mugen]

Anyway, I"m out for work, so catch y'all later. Please do me a favor & argue a lot. Thanks!

[Jin and Mugen]

The duality can die if its up to me.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

As long as we have the gas/fire thing out in the open:
Can we agree as town that using these abilities ourselves is a bad idea? It generates a kill without information and the second I saw my list of powers, I was like, "this gas/fire thing is a really good way for town to shoot themselves in the foot and for scum to make a so-called 'vig' without ever having to deal with the fallout of killing a member of the town faction".

Speaking of which: does anyone want to claim trying to do something to me or can we all safely assume that it was scum?

As long as we have the gas/fire thing out in the open:
Can we agree as town that using these abilities ourselves is a bad idea? It generates a kill without information and the second I saw my list of powers, I was like, "this gas/fire thing is a really good way for town to shoot themselves in the foot and for scum to make a so-called 'vig' without ever having to deal with the fallout of killing a member of the town faction".

Speaking of which: does anyone want to claim trying to do something to me or can we all safely assume that it was scum?

Was your dousing more than 24 hours ago?

[Not us but I want to know exactly.]

~Titus

Why don't we start by asking if anyone has this ability.

Is anyone an arsonist?

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

does anyone have any questions for me?

I feel like this game has been going slowly, and so far I have been wrong about Soren and I haven't been doing best scumhunting, so kind of relying on you guys more than my own opinions.

-Fire

@Suzune:
Fluff post. The only reason for a post like this is to look busy.

[Jin and Mugen]

VOTE: MOHIS

Doing this for Mugen, and because I don't particularly like MOHIS's play at the moment either.

~Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

Delenn, to be clear, this fireproofing is part of your role, right?

This may be important.

[Jin and Mugen]

The duality can die if its up to me.

What duality?

Jin can you answer this

'fraid you'll have to ask Mugen about this.

I know he wants to lynch MOHIS, and I don't disagree.

Some things are making me inclined to lynch Delenn at the moment, but I'm going to talk that over with him.

Duppin is like the last ditch, nothing else is left lynch.

[Jin and Mugen]

Delenn, to be clear, this fireproofing is part of your role, right?

This may be important.

We can't fireproof anyone, the fireproof suit gives us immunity.

Did you, or did you not start with it?

[Jin and Mugen]

If you still can, go ahead and douse Delenn. We are lynching MOHIS today.

[Jin and Mugen]

Exactly why the hell did you douse someone so early? You were not even close to getting lynched and there has only been one lynch.

[Jin and Mugen]

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

@Edgar, what do you think of what duppin is saying?

[Jin and Mugen]

Also my other head thinks Delenn, but I completely disagree, they jsut have a tendancy to look scummy. Just like we do. So thats a mislynch bait.

I've been saying that Delenn is town for ages lol

-Vedith

Chastising his buddy for a scum slip

Do you know what a scum slip even means?

-Vedith

VOTE: Duppin

Well, that was a hammer?

-Vedith

I can see you're enjoying your victory of not being up for lynch at the moment.

[Jin and Mugen]

Nevermind, it was the hammer, he votecount was screwed up.

Who else was on your wagon?

~Jin

[Jin and Mugen]

Titus, why are you not doing much of anything where I can see it?

I'm going deliberately out of my way to get on your nerves so I can read you, and you're not obliging. :/

[Jin and Mugen]

M'kay, thanks Duppin.

I'm really feeling Delenn/MOHIS right now, possibly even on a team. LQ likes MOHIS better, and because I'm not paying as much attention as I should, I'm more than willing to defer to his judgment here.

Either way though, I'd rather like one of them dead tomorrow.

[Jin and Mugen]

So Mohis I'd also really like you to explain why you thought I was scum.

That was FB voting you. I thought Yakko more than anything.
I'll let him tell you why he voted there.
I had you in my not town slot though, hammering someone is never convincing to put as town imo.

-Vedith

Ehhhhhhh, I'm definitely trending towards LQ's point of view.

[Jin and Mugen]

I'm really feeling Delenn/MOHIS right now, possibly even on a team. LQ likes MOHIS better, and because I'm not paying as much attention as I should, I'm more than willing to defer to his judgment here.

Maybe we should wait to see what he flips before pointing your stick..

-Vedith

Pretty sure he's not trolling.

So no.

I'll readjust if needs be.

[Jin and Mugen]

I don't feel right about feeling good about not being on that lynch.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Why not just ask him for a reads list?

570

I did ask for anything else...

-Vedith

And it was a really productive question like it always is.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Witholding my vote for a second. I kinda want to catch up with LQ again.

He can place a vote if he wants.

Klingon, it's moderately-to-critically important that you tell me if the Fireproof suit comes with your role, or was delivered.

[Jin and Mugen]

See, the thing is, I'm inclined to believe Delenn is lying about having received a suit.

LQ is debating the possibilities with me, but I

really

want them to give me the full story, like I've been asking.

I'm tempted to risk it, and let Iron Giant grab the fireproof suit if I'm wrong....

[Jin and Mugen]

Let me flesh this out during the weekend though.

Right now is way too hectic.

After the tournament should be good for intelligent thoughts again.

[Jin and Mugen]

M'kay, I'm here-ish. I've got some stuff going on, so this is going to be briefer than my typical analytical posts.

Really, I'm going to vote hop to Soren, though I'm staying in contact with LQ on this one. Some of his posts have me wondering, now, but I'm honestly more comfortable with him than most. MOHIS has fallen considerably in my estimation, and may be a valid lynch now. I will compromise on Soren, MOHIS, and Suz. I'm backing off of Delenn now, and I don't really remember what was bugging me about HiY. It may have been a carryover from my MME thoughts.

Edgar is not a lynch option. I'm a little wary of him in spots, but everything thrown against him so far is not a case, and what he's done leans notably more Town than not. My only hesitation is that both of them vaguely remind me of this one guy who's rather good at manipulating me. I'm not letting him out of my sights, but I'm very, very uninterested in lynching him with present information.

Iron Giant is pretty firmly Town in my book, and probably my most consistent Townread. I've been skeptical at points of how easily Elb threw out Towncred, but all in all, it fits with his somewhat 'looser' Town style, if that makes sense? I may also be a little flattered (and a little self-conscious) due to the 'magic gut' post.

Suz isn't Deftown, but she's okayish, for her. She's my compromise lynch choice, TBH, but meh.

MOHIS has dropped considerably in my estimation, and I would lynch them as well. If Soren flips Town, I may death tunnel them for white knighting when I see little in Soren's meta to create such a strong read, particularly from Fire. If Soren flips scum, I dunno, I'm taking a step back.

In other words, I want to start the puzzle with a MOHIS or a Soren lynch, and I think Soren is still better.

Sorry again for briefness. I'm sure you'll be able to live with only a couple thousand characters from me.

VOTE: Soren

This would obviously be me, Vedith

Aka Vyse.

[Jin and Mugen]

I'd love to hear how I'm opportunistic, by the way.

Because it sounds like you're pushing me for pushing Soren...opportunistically? (which is different than saying I was bussing him.).

Then I'm pushing Delenn, who....is in the least danger they've ever been in, and it's only due to LQ that I haven't been death tunneling them.

This really feels like framing the narrative.

---

On a stream of consciousness note, Iron Giant's info is actually getting me to seriously reconsider my read on Delenn, because their role might make sense under the circumstances. Enough so that I'm just about ready to be done with it all & vote MOHIS. (No offense, love you guys, and I hope you get the job Vedith. I just feel that your hydra name is particularly apt this time around. )

One of the things that's not sitting well with me this game is the way certain people are being framed. We shouldn't have needed Edgar to get doused for there to be little to no doubt about his Towniness. Then, once again, Duppin gets lynched....and why? Like, really? I'm looking over that case, and I feel like it's very much a pushed narrative

Call this analysis what you like, call my timing what you like, it's still

weird.

And honestly? The two people I think deserve credit for this insanity would be MOHIS and Delenn. Given the state of my reads, and LQ's, I'm down with this.

VOTE: MOHIS

L-1 and all that jazz.

Suzune is just bleh for me, and needs to start adding suspicions & points of interest, because right now, all she has to go on are observations.

Edgar is moderately-high Town, all things considered.

IG is screaming Town to me in every post, and Soren pushed them. 10 Towns out of 10, would Town with again.

Delenn is....meh, mostly because of setup. Part of me still is screaming to pay attention to them, but...eh. I'll defer to LQ this time around. I think he has a point. Scum would be too OP without some defensive measures for Town.

Basically, I want to lynch MOHIS today. Not really interested in anyone else.

[Jin and Mugen]

Sorry if that's less coherent than could be hoped for, but I have to wake up super early tomorrow, and don't really feel like murdering myself to do more tonight.

Later!

[Jin and Mugen]

~Vyse aka Jin.

[Jin and Mugen]

We are town ;(

I can't tell you anyone specifically, I don't like Suzune or Iron Giant tbh. I don't know where Vedith stands, but I think we disagreed with a few.

GL town, maybe vedith can give you something more before the flip.

Well that's good cuz currently you're at L-1.

[Jin and Mugen]

Btw, Vedith, I hope the job interview went well.

Thanks Titus!

-Vedith

Same here, pal!

~A very tired Vyse

[Jin and Mugen]

I want a reads list, Fire.
That goes for Vedith as well.

[Jin and Mugen]

The weird thing is, Iron Giant was apparently unaware of having been doused. :/

I don't want to believe I"m an idiot.

At this point, I'm tempted to believe Delenn, for all that the early claim was not a great idea. :/

@Yakko - Why did you hammer when you did?

@Suz - Besides calling the game weird, do you have any thoughts of your own at this point? I don't want to be rude, but this is getting to be a serious problem, and I'd rather not lose the game because it.

~Jin. (Back from the tournament, and settling back in.)

[Jin and Mugen]

Weird thought, if Edgar was dousedd, why is he not dead?

[Jin and Mugen]

...Is there any reason to object to a massclaim at this point?

I'm basing a fair bit of my reversed read on Delenn due to setup spec, and I'd rather like to have everything on the table, given LyLo is a thing. (And if Titus is cleared, that basically solves the game from my POV, or least confines it to an easy thingamabob.)

(I mean, if the Reviver hasn't already got every reason to target IG & call that a day, I don't even know what to say. Duppin if you must, but pick one.)

[Jin and Mugen]

Weird thought, if Edgar was dousedd, why is he not dead?

I know. Put me at the back.

~Titus

What does this mean?

[Jin and Mugen]

...Is there any reason to object to a massclaim at this point?

I'm basing a fair bit of my reversed read on Delenn due to setup spec, and I'd rather like to have everything on the table, given LyLo is a thing. (And if Titus is cleared, that basically solves the game from my POV, or least confines it to an easy thingamabob.)

(I mean, if the Reviver hasn't already got every reason to target IG & call that a day, I don't even know what to say. Duppin if you must, but pick one.)

I didn't talk to Jin about this, but I can't tell you how much I agree with this. Mass claim is absolutely necessary at this point.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

I'm going to ask Suz/Yakko to claim first. Edgar next.

Mine is basically ridiculously crumbed throughout the whole thread, and my thought process ought to be pretty obvious, so I'm intending to be last.

[Jin and Mugen]

Also, sorry Kling if I keep referring to your slot as 'Titus" >_<

I may have had more experience with her, and am slightly more confident in reading her than you at the moment.

[Jin and Mugen]

Okay, my claim is simple human. I have no special powers.

Okay, I hate to be completely change my reads however, I have this sinking suspicion that the conversation with Edgar and Delann was staged. There was no reason to bring it up and the pieces fit so well together. Edgar was claiming something akin to someone trying to douse him. Delann wanted to know when it happened. However the answer to that yeilded no results. Which made the pair of them look busy. Then someone no one knew was doused went up in flames.

I am beginning to suspect a Delann and Edgar scum team. Although the fail hammer for yakko is kind of odd.

I'm curious, why haven't you said stuff like this throughout the game?

Why only just now?

[Jin and Mugen]

The game's been going on for weeks.

Like, walk my through your thoughts, as best you can please, in detail.

[Jin and Mugen]

Hey, Suz. Vyse here.

I just want to say, first off, please don't take anything I say in-game too seriously. I try to avoid being insulting and like period, because I believe that stuff is...not constructive, to put it very nicely. I want to be able to laugh with you at the end of the game, whether you fooled me, or I fooled you, or maybe we were on the same team all along. However, I may be aggressive, at least from an in-game perspective.

I view you as a pretty cool person, and I very much understand RL coming first. I hope things go better for you, and you

This isn't a pity post, in case there's any doubt. This is me legitimately trying to say I very much understand how this stuff can effect the game, and I just want you to know, there's nothing personal in any of my posts, towards you or anyone else.

When I push you, that's because you're someone who I find challenging to read, and regrettably, it's easiest to read you when I catch you off balance & 'bully' you a little, if you'll pardon the term. I'm particularly off-balance myself, because Titus's claim threw me for a loop, as you may have noticed, and I want to understand the game state as a whole. This makes your slot vitally important to read from my PoV.

I'm going to take some time to process my thoughts before going much further into this. I'm certainly not placing a vote until Edgar and Yakko have claimed, and I'm going to ask LQ to do the same.

I'm...not entirely sure what you mean by pressuring the incoming slot. I may have to check back to that point in the game, because that sounds like LQ's style to me. (And no offense! I'm not a very easy person to read in many respects myself, I've noticed, and I certainly don't mind too much you mistaking me having a gutread for my partner having one. (I'll point out I use slightly stiff, and semi-consistent style of language, and that's probably the best way of reading me.))

(PoE typically mean Process of Elimination.)

[Jin and Mugen]

FYI, the claim order right now is Edgar, then Yakko.

Then I'll claim.

And apparently Delenn has something else to add after that?

[Jin and Mugen]

Vyse, you have done nothing wrong. Sometimes happened in my real life, that was probably not a big deal, but it hit a weak spot from my past and made me super emotional. I greatly enjoy playing with you too.

post 306If you start here you can see what I mean about pressuring an incoming slot.

Suzune. That post was mine. As aggressive as Vyse is sometimes, I can be much more of an actual bully. Know that is not at all that I think less of the person in doing so. We are playing a game where psychological effects can tell us something about a player and I attempt to use that to my advantage where I can. I am not a monster. I am actually a very deep feeling person irl, but I just am a bit ruthless sometimes in this game. Again, I have to say that it is not at all that I think less of the person in any way shape or form. I am not someone who believes themmself to be superior to anyone, I want to make that clear.

As an aside, I do enjoy playing with you a lot; you have a very pleasant demeanor.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

@MOD - Is the sample PM in the OP in the game, the same way the sample PMS from the last game were active ones?

AKA, should we consider it mod confirmed that there is a reviver in this game?

[Jin and Mugen]

HOW DID I MISS THAT MOHIS WAS OLIVIA?!!??!?!?!

>_<

~Jin(Vyse)

[Jin and Mugen]

You guys should Revive Iron Giant, since you have a shot during death.

Thank you.

[Jin and Mugen]

So, I'm just going to say I'm talking a little with the Iron Giant via tape. (Well, it's a one-sided conversation anyway, given that the tapes are one way, and unsigned, but given that he stole the only scum tapes available, I doubt Town is pretending to be him.)

He thinks it's Yakko/Edgar.

I'm starting to believe it has to come from the pool of Yakko/Edgar/Suz.

Suz is coming across as scary sincere, and while I know she can do a lot of that as scum, there's specific stuff in there that leads me to believe otherwise is the case. I'm not 100% confident, but I'm trending away from scumreading her. I hope she can stay a bit active though, please.

I don't find myself fond of Delenn's play, largely due to the quietness of the Titus head. I tried to annoy her a bit - I figured doubting her claim openly would at least do the trick - and she didn't bite. I'm not entirely thrilled with this.

However, Town needs more protective roles, and their claim makes an annoying amount of sense. I'm also okay with Klingon's play to at least some degree.

Edgar hasn't really done much since the beginning, when I was okay with him. (Which would be very ironic.)
Yakko is not pinging me hard one way or another, but MME (his predecessor) did a bit, and if Delenn is Town, that removes what leniancy I was giving MME's post beforehand. :/

I'm starting to agree with IG to at least some extent, with my one point of difference being that I don't completely trust Suzune at the moment. (Again, nothing personal, Suz. Not only have you burned me once, you come across much the same as a very good friend of mine, and she constantly slips past my radar. I have to be tough on reading you, if I want to be accurate. With skill comes a price, you wily evil person you. )

TBH, I'm not voting right now because I haven't been happy with the state of my reads since Soren died. I'm leaning Yakko, but...hrm.

[Jin and Mugen]

Delenn cannot be scum unless Edgar is, and probably isn't even if he is.

[Jin and Mugen]

Or at least, it's exceedingly unlikely.

[Jin and Mugen]

To be honest, I think the ghost tapes are a really cool idea, and much better implemented than the original tapes in MS #1. Kudos to the mod.

[Jin and Mugen]

We are the water bucket. Water can only put out a fire within 24 hours of it being triggered.

According to EAP, he was put out on the 18th. The fire was triggered on the 21st - the mod posted 644 multiple hours before Iron Giant's death in 645, meaning Iron Giant was doused & lit in quick succession over that period of time.

This would imply that one of you is lying, wouldn't it?

[Jin and Mugen]

~Vyse for all these last few posts.

[Jin and Mugen]

I'm going to let Delenn clarify anything if needed before my vote, but...yeah.

I'm really starting to think IG is right.

[Jin and Mugen]

Iron Giant claims to have reviewed Soren's PM due to his Coroner-like role.

This woudl be prior to his death, but I'd need to find the post again.

[Jin and Mugen]

Why has MOHIS not revived IG yet? :/

[Jin and Mugen]

C'mon, dudes! We're counting on you here!

[Jin and Mugen]

Anyway, Delenn, if I'm understanding you right, then the water can either remove gas completely, or revive someone who's been lit 24 hours after their death?

Sorry if I'm being obtuse, this is not quite registering with me.

[Jin and Mugen]

Eh, yeah.

Grats if I'm wrong. I don't think I am.

VOTE: Hi I'm Yakko

[Jin and Mugen]

[/unvote]

A moment.

[Jin and Mugen]

UNVOTE: HiY

Fixed.

LQ's making a stupid amount of sense.

[Jin and Mugen]

Iron Giant, if you have a ghost tape to spare that you don't feel like doing anything else with, would you please let me know if you were PM'd upon being doused?

Likewise, the effect of being lit instantly killed you, correct?

Because the secondary team I was wondering about was Edgar/Titus, and I know you're not going to like me second-guessing Delenn, but I don't understand why Titus hasn't bit on literally

anything

this game, bar 'clearing' Edgar. I also don't understand how they can claim to remove the effect of a player being lit within 24 hours, when the effect appears to be instant. (I also feel a bit confused by the other part of their claim, and it comes across to me that they claimed to be able to 'wash' someone to remove the Doused Effect within 24 hours at first, then switched to saying they could remove the Dousing effect at any time.)

(If the Delenn hydra wants to clarify again, that'd be cool, and it might save us some trouble.)

Really, the only reason I'm not death tunneling Delenn right now is because I just don't understand how we could only have one protective roles this game with up to four kills going around, three of which are scum aligned. :/

But at the same time, HiY really isn't great and....ehhhhhhh. The other is bugging the crap out of me right now.

I literally want to lynch everyone right now. Suzune is probably the least problematic at the moment, but I don't dare call her Town because of last game. I know you

Talk to me a bit, please.

[Jin and Mugen]

I guess the Reviver counts as a particularly strong protective role, all things considered....MOHIS could have revived two people by now, I suppose, and they'd be either confirmed Town, or all but confirmed, depending on the person.

[Jin and Mugen]

"Well it seemed to be right at the time. I mean those demons and such never showed once we started hanging."

"Of course not, we were doing all the tearing each other up for them."

duppin (5) - Iron Giant, hi im Yakko, My Other Head Is Scum, Delenn, Edgar Allan Pro

Delennn (1) - duppin
My Other Head Is Scum (1) - Jin and Mugen

Not voting: Suzune

Lynch Reached!

duppin was

Cecil Updin

,

Passive Human

It is now Day 3!

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
(expired on 2015-12-03 18:21:06)

Explain wtf you were doing here, thx.

[Jin and Mugen]

@Edgar, what do you think of what duppin is saying?

Feel free to answer this at any time. ^_^

Picking up a little slipididuda.

[Jin and Mugen]

Either someone is bussing or we lost.

~Mugen

[Jin and Mugen]

Umm, okay?

[Jin and Mugen]

WP.

I do not why MOHIS did not revive anyone. I suspect an ability thief, but I guess we'll see on flips, if this plays out the way I'm basically sure it will.

[Jin and Mugen]

Tsk, Suz. This is why I'm never trusting you again. I still believe the RL difficulties, but you're too much like me for them to be alignment indicative, and too much like my friend to be trusted on sincerity alone, gosh darn it.

I thought it was Soren/Delenn/MME for the longest time, and I regret screwing it up somewhere along the way. I was thinking Delenn/Edgar pulling a weird gambit, in large part because of the oddities surrounding their timing. Credit to LQ for pushing Suz at the end of Day #1 there. I should have listened to early him before.

I enjoyed the hydra immensely, and while I'll probably play solo more often than not, I definitely want to come back to it again.

Speaking of which, it was actually pretty easy to read the hydras, in my opinion, at least when I was already familiar with the player.

[Jin and Mugen]

I'd have screwed up on Suzune, possibly, but I can't believe I slipped up on MME. XD

GG scum, grats!

Thanks for the game, mod.

[Jin and Mugen]

I'd have screwed up on Suzune, possibly, but

I can't believe I slipped up on MME

. XD

GG scum, grats!

Thanks for the game, mod.

By which I mean that MME was notably scummier than HiY, in my opinion, and I'm sad I screwed that one up so bad by not following up on it.

[Jin and Mugen]

I'd like the Scum chat if that's ok.