Micro 553: ETL's Double Day Unlimited (Game Over)

[Antihero]

whats goin on in this dump?

[Antihero]

ok

[Antihero]

VOTE: prohawk

[Antihero]

alright.........

UNVOTE: rob

[Antihero]

yep, let's get a prohawk wagon going.

you've got early-game setting up for low expectations

Spoiler:

I'm terribad at double day. Just thought I would let everyone know.

VOTE: ConMan

Does it really matter?

So many freaking votes, my head is spinning!

then once he got back he's kinda' taken pecks from the sideline at conman and really nothing else

Spoiler:

Wait wait wait.

Wicked wasn't even apart of the speed lynch why are you all lynching him?

Wicked shouldn't be a wagon. I think he is town based on his posts. Town-Feelings there.

EVEN THOUGH HE'S ALREADY SAID HE'S TOWNREADING WICKED he won't vote the counterwagon. or A counterwagon even. and the "opposition" to the wicked wagon is pretty anemic. he's not questioning any of the individual members of the wagon or really making an effort to dispute the theories tth and radiant have thrown out there.

calculated
inaction

plz vote this up

[Antihero]

We lynched a townie and there's a pair of scumbags prowling around the scene

your case and your vote stinks

do you have any other reads?

[Antihero]

yep, let's get a prohawk wagon going.

you've got early-game setting up for low expectations

Spoiler:

I'm terribad at double day. Just thought I would let everyone know.

VOTE: ConMan

Does it really matter?

So many freaking votes, my head is spinning!

then once he got back he's kinda' taken pecks from the sideline at conman and really nothing else

Spoiler:

Wait wait wait.

Wicked wasn't even apart of the speed lynch why are you all lynching him?

Wicked shouldn't be a wagon. I think he is town based on his posts. Town-Feelings there.

EVEN THOUGH HE'S ALREADY SAID HE'S TOWNREADING WICKED he won't vote the counterwagon. or A counterwagon even. and the "opposition" to the wicked wagon is pretty anemic. he's not questioning any of the individual members of the wagon or really making an effort to dispute the theories tth and radiant have thrown out there.

calculated
inaction

plz vote this up

AND

if the "quicklynch" was such a big deal why isn't he going after rob's slot more?

because it's an empty talking point

[Antihero]

We lynched a townie and there's a pair of scumbags prowling around the scene

your case and your vote stinks

do you have any other reads?

*more specifically: read on rob's slot

[Antihero]

Do you have a read on Wicked yet?

not one i'm going to share yet

[Antihero]

For the record, my inaction isn't really calculated, its just that. Inaction. I haven't had time to put myself in the game to take an action at this point. Motivate me Anti.

uh... ok that makes sense, that's totally keeping you from voting conman

fjkld;jf;;mvvvvoieav;j8hg4;o933jfdsklamk;dvsa

[Antihero]

speaking of conman... kind of interested in hearing more about radiant's opinion on that. i remember he said something about scum driven wagon and feelings, but ... yeah, i may or may not disagree with that.

[Antihero]

I mean, those two votes are my two biggest scumreads at the moment.

So I can see why I'd feel that way.

i'm townreading the two voters and not townreading conman

it seems we've reached an impasse...

[Antihero]

VOTE: radiant cowbells
VOTE: conmanmick

[Antihero]

uh........

....





...

ok

[Antihero]

why does it matter?

[Antihero]

holy shit is passive aggressive the only way you know how to speak?

[Antihero]

mostly b/c nobody's posting and i'm bored.

i also think i finally put my finger on why you give me the creeps so much.

[Antihero]

UNVOTE: rc and conman

[Antihero]

there's not it's an open game.

we can always lynch him and then eat cake

[Antihero]

because rc might be right and conman might be a trap wagon

[Antihero]

he never actually explained it but i think i get it

[Antihero]

it might be easier for you to explain why you're scumreading conman than for me to try to articulate why i think i might've been misreading his weird, detached, floaty style as scummy when it might just be playstyle.

[Antihero]

...

that couldn't be near as deep as it sounded...

[Antihero]

becauz i'm scumz and you cuaght mez huehuehuehuehuehuehuehue

i also just... kinda' did answer it in a sentence.

[Antihero]

my original bad vibes were coming off
>the initial "sorry for being last"
>being cagey about the tth reasons when it really wasn't called for (esp. given the reasons themselves were pretty lame)
>playing devil's advocate about lynx townreading him while not pushing a scumread on lynx (i mean... if you're town and someone's townreading you why do you give a fuck what their reason is? if they're right they're right unless you think they're scum.)

he DID give a read on lynx in his last post, which was scum (expected).
his pushes and reads are pretty soulless and as exciting as dry toast, but so is his writing style so maybe it washes?

...

or maybe he's because he's really scum and i'm just overthinking it...?

i need to go to bed

[Antihero]

Reachout fail. I'm guessing conman and anti in the kitchen with the candlestick.

Papa Zito isn't cool. That is all.

VOTE: ConMan back to L-1

LOL YOU ARE SCUM
"motivate me because i'm lame" is a reachout?

[Antihero]

299: Horrible answer from Anti. Still a town read, but Jesus Christ.

no, it was a stupid question.

unless proven otherwise, "timing" on voting is usually informationless garbage that's peddled from the basis that ppl will vote someone they're not townreading AT THE EXACT FUCKING MOMENT THEY'RE DOING IT GODDAMNIT.

[Antihero]

I realize I'm not making this real easy, but just remember I am the COUNTER wagon to ConMan lynch. Jus' Sayin.

i'll take prohawk and conman in the conservatory with a revolver.

i think i'm closer.

[Antihero]

We're five days away from our second lynch and it feels like we are lacking information.

I'll be meta'ing and rereading...

hey wicked.

you could... like... read my posts instead of yammering on about khan but whatever floats your boat i guess.

[Antihero]

damn... heavy

sorry to hear that

[Antihero]

>being cagey about the tth reasons when it really wasn't called for (esp. given the reasons themselves were pretty lame)
>playing devil's advocate about lynx townreading him while not pushing a scumread on lynx (i mean... if you're town and someone's townreading you why do you give a fuck what their reason is? if they're right they're right unless you think they're scum.)

Right, you're making my case for me.

his pushes and reads are pretty soulless and as exciting as dry toast,

Yes, and why do you think that is? And don't give me any bull about how he's always this way unless you have proof to back it.

Spoiler: some bull

i took a quick peek at some recent conman games. he's always low key and it looks like a frequent mislynch so this it's not an easy sort.

but we have prohawk here who knows conman's going to flip scum and trying to tie whoever he can to it (and has been the whole game) AND telling everyone how innocent he is b/c of the counterwagon so maybe there's something to what you're saying

[Antihero]

...implying there's something wrong with cougar hunting...

[Antihero]

Well, there's definitely something wrong with trying to get with married women.

psh

what a prude

[Antihero]

what the fuck are you talking about?

[Antihero]

but we have prohawk here who knows conman's going to flip scum

Does he now? And when I don't, will ProHawk be exonerated? How will your reads change from there?

huehuehuheue
why the hell would it?
how the fuck would i know that, even if i chose to entertain this hypothetical?

in order

dumb questions in what i suspect stems from not reading the thread.

[Antihero]

Unvote: ConManMick

Starting to think that I might've been wrong about this.

More tomorrow...

why are you avoiding me?

[Antihero]

still here still good w/ prohawk lynch

[Antihero]

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

/throws fruit

[Antihero]

awesome, a vote on a vanity wagon that's more likely town than not AND doesn't help us out of the current logjam

vote prohawk, zito vote prohawk

[Antihero]

/shits pants

[Antihero]

well jeez, i hope in the meantime the conman wagon doesn't pick up. oh wait, i forgot that's a complete fucking fantasy. unlike a tth or zito flash wagon happening at this point. that's totally real and well advised.

[Antihero]

oh noes the passive-aggressiveness

[Antihero]

well i'm not sure what acid-trip universe you inhabit that tth or zito are a better lynch than prohawk but it's not the one i live in.

[Antihero]

VOTE: radiant cowbells

what a crock

[Antihero]

all this bobbing and weaving is a smokescreen bullshit act

[Antihero]

...and then there was silence...

UNVOTE: prohawk

fuck that, radiant's who i'm going for today

[Antihero]

I would strongly advise you to do otherwise, assuming that you're town.

Spoiler: ...and the oscar goes to...

NOT YOU

save the fake uncertainty "if you're town..." shtick for people who are actually impressed by it.

why does the thought of anyone actually following your reads or any of your wagons succeeding scare the absolute shit out of you? every time popular opinion sways, you make it a point to stay in the out group.

is it... because you don't actually want any of your "scumreads" to actually flip so you avoid accountability like the plague?

yep.

i've pinpointed the buttplug in this game. let's take it out.

[Antihero]

let me guess
let me guess
let me guess

me and tth are scum now. both unlikely lynches. conveniently.
that may or may not change depending on if tth actually gets voted up or not at which point you'll drop that sucker like it's hot.

then...what? i guess it'll be rob's turn to take his ride on the merry-go-round of bullshit.
oooooooor maybe conman's? that'll be a hoot to see you go back on THAT townread.

[Antihero]

This stagnancy is very strange to me... especially in stark contrast to the beginning of the game.

here how about this? 1v1 me v rc

rc would win since everyone here is reading rc's early game replace out horseshit ate as town for some god-knows-what reason but hey it's a win-win in my book. then i don't have to deal with the spineless claptrap that is this game.

[Antihero]

I hope everyone pays attention to Antis wanting to lynch Conman yet no vote

??????????

where the fuck did i say that?

[Antihero]

VOTE: prohawk

[Antihero]

Several different times and in several different ways.

FUCKING WHERE?

[Antihero]

because rc might be right and conman might be a trap wagon

In fact.

VOTE: unvote Prohawk

I want CMM.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME YOU'VE BEEN CHAINSAWING THE EVER LOVING FUCK OUT OF THAT WAGON ALL DAY

i'm not hamming conman. if someone wants to hammer prohawk be my guest.

[Antihero]

VOTE: rc

bring it

[Antihero]

let's see... you've:

>used scummy as shit, manipulative ate
>parked your vote on a townie
>changed your reads to conveniently head off threats

nice try scumlord, but you die today

[Antihero]

what's this one?

magically appearing scumreads on me+conman after we start scumread/vote him.

That NK doesn't change this at all.

????????

what does the nk change for you?

[Antihero]

Can you show these?

...uh... nothing that's not in the thread already
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7450121

Not much. I went back through TTH's iso and the NK still points to Conman. (inb4 raging against NK analysis; idc those decisions aren't made at random)

conman was a pretty popular wagon

if tth was killed for her reads, i actually think that points a lot more towards rob

[Antihero]

===[]

[Antihero]

too much yammering
not enough hammering

[Antihero]

Actually,

UNVOTE: RC

Not against going back to RC in Day 2, Lynch 2. In fact, I probably will, since he's probably the other scum. But Zito is the scummiest scum that ever scummed and needs the rope.

oh fucking what?

[Antihero]

Hammering who?

Me? Zito?

Fantastic choice of lynches there.

And I'm mostly done with exams so you're going to find lynching me to be a far more difficult prospect than it was.

yes, obviously, since i'm voting zito

[Antihero]

Actually,

UNVOTE: RC

Not against going back to RC in Day 2, Lynch 2. In fact, I probably will, since he's probably the other scum. But Zito is the scummiest scum that ever scummed and needs the rope.

oh fucking what?

ok... let me get this straight.

you want to take apart the wagon on someone you're scumreading that's at l1 RIGHT THE FUCK NOW for a one-vote wagon for........... what?

what the fuck is this?

[Antihero]

Oh, wait. I forgot the entire scum team has a post restriction against that in this game.

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE STILL MAKING JABS WHAT THE FUCK

[Antihero]

VOTE: rob

[Antihero]

zito if you're not doing rc would you do this?

[Antihero]

Rob, there is much more interest in lynching RC today... You should re-vote for him...

Your un-vote looks pretty bad.

AND you haven't let up on your rc scumread
AND the other person your voting isn't voting rc

[Antihero]

Just like in Arsonist mafia, eh? You being an idiot pushing on me while I had the scumteam pegged from D1.

i know

i'm such a bitch

[Antihero]

holy shit rc and rob are at l-1. CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A HAMMER NOW ON ONE OF THOSE

[Antihero]

VOTE: rob

[Antihero]

already did that. bailing on that rc wagon made no sense from the perspective of someone who was scumreading rc and never overturned the read. what's he going to do now? give me some lipservice about strength of the read or some such nonsense? he's already done that.

do you think rob's exit from the rc wagon was legit?

[Antihero]

I was just going off of Anti's post.

oh yeah, and NOW AFTER THE FACT he apparently give half a rat's shit what i had to say. when i said it at first, all he wanted to do was mouth off at me about how there was nothing better than zito but when the chips hit the table, he wants to go with the story of OMG ANTI MADE ME DO IT.

what a bunch of shit.

[Antihero]

because you knew it would flip town and you didn't want to be around...?

i mean... not that complicated or out there.

[Antihero]

PLUS

who would want tth dead?

Unvote: ConManMick

Starting to think that I might've been wrong about this.

More tomorrow...

That post again ...

Unvote: ConManMick

Starting to think that the momentum is shifting and my reads are no longer popular.

More tomorrow...

That post again ...

I was townreading your slot mostly because I thought there was no way scum could be as all over the place and bad as Lhix was, but stuff like this makes me think I went wrong somewhere and you're just scum.

oh yeah...

IT'S YOU

[Antihero]

"you're just scum"

sounds like a scumread to me

[Antihero]

1) I don't shy away from being on town wagons as scum. Read my meta for confirmation.

oh joy, self meta

2) And then I reversed course and decided to quickhammer, which makes me the center of attention? That's hardly compatible with a narrative of wanting to stay in the background and not be on a town wagon if I were scum.

well you said it yourself. it was either you or him at that point, right?

[Antihero]

holy shit rc and rob are at l-1. CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A HAMMER NOW ON ONE OF THOSE

VOTE: RC

I'm not going down until I convince you all that Zito is fucking scum.

you didn't want the attention

but when push came to shove and SOMEONE had to take the fall, you were all too happy to hop back onto rc.

how's that for a narrative? am i just out in left field?

[Antihero]

If you claim "X --> scum" and I point out an instance of "X and town", then your implication has been proven false.

what the fuck are you even talking about now?

you said you don't shy away from town wagons as scum

1) I don't shy away from being on town wagons as scum. Read my meta for confirmation.

that is... open to manipulation and doesn't "disprove" shit. you even acknowledging your own meta voids any validity it might have as an alignment tell.

i claimed "x --> scum"
you said "no, y ---> scum"

x and y are simply different strategies that will change with every game. it's not an immutable part of ... anything. soooooooooooo...

horseshit

hows that logic?

[Antihero]

Note how Anti's logic from yesterday and today lined up lynches. Anti yesterday seemed to push the idea that I was scum with RC because of the unvote. I can kind of see how that argument works; I unvoted RC when wagon was gaining momentum to save my partner. But when RC flipped town, he didn't drop his read at all or re-evaluate. He just wordlessly put a vote back on me. Now I'm apparently scum because I was exiting the vote to avoid being on a wagon that lynched town, even though, as I detail above, I wouldn't have been the one in the spotlight for that lynch.

A townie would have reevaluated the read when the rationale behind it broke down. They wouldn't have searched for a new rationale to fit the existing read. Fitting a rationale to a read rather than a read to your rationales is one of the strongest indicators of scum. It indicates you're hunting lynches, not scum.

I've already detailed yesterday how Zito is obv-scum. Anti is looking more and more like his partner. More, because I'm not dead yet, I have to assume that Anti and Zito are the scum. Otherwise, someone would have hammered me by now. Please do not recklessly throw this game. At least take a look at the possibility of a {Zito, Anti} team before placing a vote and engage with that possibility. I can't guarantee I'll be hugely helpful in that respect, since this game has frustrated the hell out of me, but I'll try if you have any questions.

OH FUCK THAT

you were the one premeditating this whole fucking time. you saw the writing on the wall and you sandbagged into a loser wagon that already lost steam. all with the added convenience that you COULD rejoin the wagon if necessary (and, oh look, it did end up being necessary). so you didn't revoke the read. you left your options open. it was all political positioning. calculated.

[Antihero]

Anti, you're saying I would hop off the wagon as scum and not as town. I'm pointing out that I regularly throw my vote around and hop on and off wagons in all states as town, and I regularly tunnel as scum. Yes, I'm aware of my tunneling meta as scum, and I'm not saying "no tunnel --> not scum", but I am saying that your logic of "hopping off wagon --> scum" is seriously flawed because I hop off wagons in all game states as town all the time. My philosophy, which you'll here me state repeatedly in other games because people regularly question me on this, is that my vote is my only weapon so I should use it.

yeah whatever.

you can try to baffle everyone else with bullshit, but don't sell it to me.

[Antihero]

The possible manipulation of a meta is to match up your scum game to your town meta. But if I did that manipulation with the "X" you're claiming, that means that X is a null tell by definition, since I've matched it to what I would normally do as town. Do you see what I mean here? I feel like I'm not communicating well, but this is a basic point of my opinion of theory with respect to meta that I think is very important to understand in order to understand my argument.

you CAN'T argue it with meta. because meta doesn't sit at the core of the argument. it doesn't have anything to DO with the argument to begin with.

YOU BROUGHT META IN. NOT ME.

[Antihero]

Example:

Player makes spam posts as town on a regular basis.
Player joins a game and make spam posts.
Others claim Player is scum because he's derailing the game with spam posts.
But Player makes spam posts as town on a regular basis. Even if he is attempting to derail with spam posts, this is indistinguishable from his town meta, and therefore cannot be used as a scum tell.

That's my point. Hopefully that's at least somewhat clear, either to you, or at least others.

yeah, and player has a LOT OF MOTIVE TO bring that in and present it as exculpatory evidence AS SCUM

oh, what, are we going to split hairs over "exculpatory" and "oh no, it's null"

give me a break

[Antihero]

there is no "tell"

i'm not using a "tell"

[Antihero]

I'm using the word "tell" to mean "evidence that someone is a particular alignment".

I've brought that in as evidence as both town and scum. Go check my meta.

OH WAIT

yeah yeah yeah you do everything as both town and scum. everything's a wash and your hands are clean.

convenient.

[Antihero]

Town has just as much motive to stay alive as scum in LyLo, and so the attempts to paint my self-meta as a survival interest fall very flat. Yes, I'm attempting to survive. If I don't, town loses.

last lynch was lylo?

i wasn't aware...

[Antihero]

whatever. i can only take so much sleaze.

i'm going to bed.

[Antihero]

meh.

even if i'd gotten rob lynched i wouldn't have ever voted zito so i guess it didn't matter in the end