Micro 566: WORD SNEAK MAFIA! (Game OvER!!!)

[lilith2013]

2) You MUST try to work into your posts as seamlessly as possible.

I mean, I guess final decision is up to the moderator, but I feel like the thread would get pretty ridiculous if aero let us include lists of randomly generated words.

VOTE: Guiltylion

[lilith2013]

... So why did you vote for yourself?

[lilith2013]

You can't think of any reason?

I can think of a few but they don't really make sense to me. I mean, the obvious reason would be to sneak in one of your words, but there are so few words in that post and they're fairly common, so I don't see why you'd have to self-vote in order to say them.

[lilith2013]

Wait what, when did I vote for dav?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: Davsto

For wasting your vote on a non-player. You're hurting town, buddy.

Lilac is voting dav, not me

[lilith2013]

I have to agree, I still don't understand what jumping on your own wagon would do. It's kinda like that guy who died on the boat in Jaws… you know, not Quint, but the other one…, like the one that they found his body and the red haired doctor guy is like “Woah, WTF." Like, kinda superfluous to the movie, and it doesn't really add anything except maybe more tension and there's enough of that already, and I'm not really sure where this metaphor is going or if it actually fits the situation of self-wagoning but I just don't think it actually helps us.

[lilith2013]

Also it is funny when you guys are saying it didn't do anything or help, making do exactly what I wanted and help exactly how I intended.

Huh?

[lilith2013]

@FA, nothing spectacular, no one attacking or defending me has done anything to stand out, with both sides have logical arguments. Me personally beveling my move is defend-able in logic, but poor in execution. The stand outs being Postie for the vote and follow up discussion, and Lilith the started asking questions which is good, but then they let Postie do the actual accusations while just agreeing, and they have yet to vote me which seems odd. I'm also waiting for Guilty Lion, see what they have to say.

VOTE: Lilith yeah I could see cautious scum here.

I didn't vote you because I didn't think it was scummy and I never said it was, I said I didn't understand why you would self-vote because I don't think it helps us. Jumping on me for that after the fact--it happened like a page ago and you've posted since then, so why didn't you say this earlier or vote me when it happened?--that seems pretty scummy to me, though.

VOTE: TMWSTW

[lilith2013]

I may have misread Postie's post.. Anyway I was trying to say that I didn't think self-wagoning was useful. I do think it is anti-town, I did not think it was scummy enough to vote.

[lilith2013]

UNVOTE: TMWSTW as well

[lilith2013]

Should be a lot more active now I died in another game feels badman.

Town reading mgsv, guilty lion sounds town. I think postie might be town as well via mgsv insight.

VOTE: lilac post looks like backtracking from davsto.

Who is mgsv?

Wagons and pressure are great for pressuring scum, and rvs, but I'm not going to keep sitting on a null player just because my vote happened to be there most recently.

I don't really scumread you for this remark, but I do disagree with it. If a player is null to you then you should be trying to sort them and your vote is one way to help do that.

Like if you backtrack on a scumread and unvote as a result, that makes sense, but then to go nowhere with it afterwards feels directionless and doesn't give town new information.

I feel like we've stalled out some this week, I don't want to sound like an asshat but come on guys let's make some pushes and get some things going. Lilith! Why the unvote on TMWSTW? No comment on me jumping on you?

I think scum would have more motivation to call my response defensive and subsequently try to start a bandwagon than to unvote me. I didn't respond to your post because I know I'm only going to come across as even more defensive; that's just how I am and it isn't alignment indicative for me.

[lilith2013]

Because I get scumread for it anyway, and it's part of my job as town to be as towny as possible so I'm trying to fix that by not being defensive about things, but I haven't really figured out what the alternative is.

[lilith2013]

@lillith how long have you been playing mafia?

Joined MS in september. Before that I'd only played f2f.

[lilith2013]

Because I get scumread for it anyway, and it's part of my job as town to be as towny as possible so I'm trying to fix that by not being defensive about things, but I haven't really figured out what the alternative is.

I'm not liking this post.

What don't you like about it?

[lilith2013]

I got prodded too, sorry I've been spending way too much time recently playing Fallout 7.

So all we need is Postie to start pressuring on a bizzare issue and we get all this support from weak side arguments (Lilith, Frozen Angel). Postie’s more town in my mind than Lilith and FA by far, Wednesday as well at least had better justification for joining the lilac wagon.

Which bizarre issue was Postie pressuring about? Are you talking about lilac?

[lilith2013]

Which bizarre issue was Postie pressuring about? Are you talking about lilac?

The self-voting and then lilac.

*why lilac was bizzare:

Lilac not being offensive enough -> why does she stand out from the other quieter players?
Lilac's Davsto vote -> it was RVS who gives a damn
Lilac's WIFOM -> I'm glad they felt the need to ask, I hadn't even thought about it. The possible WIFOM is a rabbit hole.

This misguided pressuring is a mess

I think you're misrepresenting me here--you seem to be scumleaning me for something I didn't do, I haven't touched the lilac wagon. Can you explain why Wednesday's reason for jumping on the wagon was better than FA's?

[lilith2013]

Also, what about Postie makes her town to you? You said she put pressure on a bizarre issue, how is that town?

[lilith2013]

I got prodded too, sorry I've been spending way too much time recently playing Fallout 7.

So all we need is Postie to start pressuring on a bizzare issue and we get all this support from weak side arguments (Lilith, Frozen Angel). Postie’s more town in my mind than Lilith and FA by far, Wednesday as well at least had better justification for joining the lilac wagon.

So what "weak side arguments" are you referring to that I've made? Asking TMWSTW about why he self-voted? How does this support the pressure on lilac from Postie?

[lilith2013]

Can you explain why Wednesday's reason for jumping on the wagon was better than FA's?

[lilith2013]

No, I just didn't understand if/why that makes you town. Vandergeist is townreading you, I wanted to know the reason if it's not for the "bizarre issue." If it was for the bizarre issue, I wanted to know what about your pressure on lilac seems town to him. He did call you town(ish), and I think it was implied that it was because of the pressure on lilac:

I got prodded too, sorry I've been spending way too much time recently playing Fallout 7.

So all we need is Postie to start pressuring on a bizzare issue and we get all this support from weak side arguments (Lilith, Frozen Angel). Postie’s more town in my mind than Lilith and FA by far, Wednesday as well at least had better justification for joining the lilac wagon.

Since msgV asked for these:

Townish - Postie, Wednesday, TMWSTW
Meh - GuiltyLion, Davsto, Lilac
Scumish - Lilith, FA

In my opinion your still trying to stay in RVS. seems fairly scummy in my opinion.

What gave you this impression?

[lilith2013]

And I'm not sure why vandergeist is calling me out for my vote on TMWSTW because my vote was based on his delayed vote on me, not the self-voting itself.

[lilith2013]

So all we need is Postie to start pressuring on a bizzare issue and we get all this support from weak side arguments (Lilith, Frozen Angel). Postie’s more town in my mind than Lilith and FA by far

Townish - Postie

It definitely seemed to me that vandergeist was implying you were town because you pressured bizarre issues. Perhaps I read too far into his post.

[lilith2013]

Again, what about my reasoning do you not like? Is there anything you want me to explain?

[lilith2013]

I can understand the points against lilac, and it does seem as if she's trying to deflect attention from herself with 144 rather than making an attempt to offer analysis of posts, but for the miraculous amount of pressure she's receiving so quickly I think there's a good chance that the wagon isn't entirely town.

@Davsto, what are your thoughts on lilac? I believe you have yet to weigh in on her 144.

whats your read list lilac? you seems a hard trier . but it seems your just asking questions instead of answering any...

@TMWSTW whats the point of making people successfull about you to move the game out of RVS? I'm kind of lost in your logic here. I can't see town motivation for that ...

Hey FA, you never came back to this point. Do you still think TMWSTW didn't have town motivation for his actions, or has he changed your mind? What was your opinion of his reads?

[lilith2013]

Yeah, I'm uncomfortable with pretty much every single person who has gotten on the lilac wagon's reasons for getting on the lilac wagon. Not a good sign.

UNVOTE:

What was your reason for being uncomfortable with FA being on lilac's wagon? Has that feeling gone away?

[lilith2013]

Yeah, I'm uncomfortable with pretty much every single person who has gotten on the lilac wagon's reasons for getting on the lilac wagon. Not a good sign.

UNVOTE:

What was your reason for being uncomfortable with FA being on lilac's wagon? Has that feeling gone away?

Also were there people you were uncomfortable with for being on/pushing the lilac wagon other than FA/Wednesday, the only others voting lilac at the time? If so, can you say who/explain why?

[lilith2013]

No I think it's L-2 still because TMWSTW unvoted.

Back to playing Angry Birds!

[lilith2013]

K after that latest post I'm thinking town on lilac and I'm pretty baffled at how confident some of you are that she's scum. That Postie vote makes no sense coming from scum, would expect her to vote lilith there.

Lilith you think she's probably town by virtue of the pressure on her, why aren't you pushing on those people? What are your reads on Wednesday and FA?

Never said lilac was town, I said I think her wagon is not entirely town, but that doesn't preclude scumbuddies distancing themselves. However I did like her 176 for the reasons outlined by TMWSTW. Her 183 is iffy and I'd like some more clarification on that, and an explanation of how she came to her other townreads, because if it's only through eliminating her scumreads then that's a bad way of forming townreads and I can see that as coming from scum.

As for Wednesday and FA--I'm still trying to figure out FA, but I liked her 182 and 188 and that has me slightly leaning town on her. Wednesday, as you've pointed out, seems incredibly confident that lilac is scum which is strange and gives me scummy vibes. She has yet to post since lilac's 176, which may change things though. Also she keeps saying "I expect you to read my mind" which I do not see as very towny but that could be an idiosyncrasy.

[lilith2013]

It's only L-2, guys

[lilith2013]

I'm telling you my thought process. As of yet I don't have much in the way of reads; struggling to form reads is pretty normal for me. I am frustrated but what really can I do about it? If you have questions to ask me, ask away and I am more than happy to answer. Otherwise, I'm going to stay the course and continue asking my questions where I think they should be asked. If my genuine efforts to scumhunt don't convince you that I'm town, then I don't know that anything I do will be able to either.

[lilith2013]

Lilac, when you get the chance, I would like some elaboration from you on the below:

[Lilac's] 183 is iffy and I'd like some more clarification on that, and an explanation of how she came to her other townreads, because if it's only through eliminating her scumreads then that's a bad way of forming townreads and I can see that as coming from scum.

@Postie, why do you have Vender as "super town", I currently have them at null and have trouble wrapping my head around such a strong read.

Her thought process has completely mirrored mine in most places, and comes across as town to me for that reason.

@postie that looks like a reason to park a vote. I don't think anyone says that anymore. That you won't do something unless.

Me: "I'm voting you because you're doing a ridiculously scummy thing that I've only ever seen scum do."
You: "OMG stop vote parking."
??????????????????????????????????????

The disagreement is there because I made a post describing why it was backpedaling and why that self awareness was likely scum. Was that not obvious that I disagreed? I gave you the courtesy of saying so. Tell me why I should unvote lilac postie because I have yet to see you defend them.

I... know you disagree (you said "I disagree")? That's not what I'm asking. I'm quite clearly asking you to tell me

why

you disagree with the things I explained in the post I quoted (97), hence me saying "why?". I'm baffled as to how something so simple is confusing you here.

And you still haven't explained anything.

Congrats, my vote isn't moving.

I think Wednesday did attempt to explain it though:

@Frozen I never said I had a problem with her voting for me. I'm just wondering why she chose me over Davsto. Was it partially random or did she notice something else that helped make up her mind?

My vote for Davsto was partially a random vote. He just happened to vote for the mod which doesn't help town. I see how my "parked vote" on him can mislead some people into thinking that I'm making a serious case against him. That would require sitting here at my computer and waiting to pounce like a cat when he slips, as opposed to keeping an eye on what others are saying and how they are contributing to the discussion.

UNVOTE: Davsto

So I don't befuddle anyone else.

Sorry. Post 82 is what I am refering to. You're supposed to read my mind postie. Lilac was self aware that her "parked vote" was atteacting attention. In reality only you postie were voting lilac. She called her vote partially random which means she saw something there t further says she wasn't intending to scum read him 'a serious case against him'. So she was making a case. I think lilac needs more pressure.

However I just checked her ISO and I feel like she hasn't made an effort to scumhunt or ask questions in several pages.

@Wednesday, do you have any opinions on Lilac's 176? Why are you okay with a davsto lynch/are you still okay with a davsto lynch?

@vander: can you explain your read on FA?

[lilith2013]

Sorry. Post 82 is what I am refering to. You're supposed to read my mind postie. Lilac was self aware that her "parked vote" was atteacting attention. In reality only you postie were voting lilac. She called her vote partially random which means she saw something there t further says she wasn't intending to scum read him 'a serious case against him'. So she was making a case. I think lilac needs more pressure.

Right so this is in direct response to

Well I'd assume the "partially random" thing meant that it wasn't fully random because she gave a reason, but it wasn't a "serious case" because the reason was an RVS-ish one. Makes sense to me and doesn't strike me as backpeddling at all.

So Wednesday later saying that the disagreement was already explained doesn't make sense because Postie was responding to that.
Person A Gives Argument A
Person B Disputes Argument A with Argument B
Person A says they disagree with Argument B
Berson B asks why
Person A says because Argument A and that doesn't work, they need to elaborate. Yes, all caught up, sorry.

Okay, I was confused before, this clears things up for me. I didn't catch the order of the posts.

Well I think this is a good time to

VOTE: Wednesday

[lilith2013]

@FA, nothing spectacular, no one attacking or defending me has done anything to stand out, with both sides have logical arguments. Me personally beveling my move is defend-able in logic, but poor in execution. The stand outs being Postie for the vote and follow up discussion, and Lilith the started asking questions which is good, but then they let Postie do the actual accusations while just agreeing, and they have yet to vote me which seems odd. I'm also waiting for Guilty Lion, see what they have to say.

VOTE: Lilith yeah I could see cautious scum here.

I didn't vote you because I didn't think it was scummy and I never said it was, I said I didn't understand why you would self-vote because I don't think it helps us.

Jumping on me for that after the fact--it happened like a page ago and you've posted since then, so why didn't you say this earlier or vote me when it happened?--that seems pretty scummy to me, though.

VOTE: TMWSTW

man did his neat voting trick to get reactions
he then voted you because he didnt like your reaction

what about that sequence is scummy
please explain

Er.. I believe I took this back?

[lilith2013]

Just read Frozen's ISO, I suggest everyone should it's not long. I could go for FA lynch if we really aren't getting Lilac, they haven't done anything and their limited criticism of Lilac can almost entirely apply to themselves. Also guys, if people don't start putting more effort in day 2 I'll just policy lynch my way to LYLO.

What've you got against a Wednesday lynch?

I'm not against a Wednesday lynch but I was much more for Lilac and FA. My read for Wednesday is null, and based mostly on how they're making me feel by gut. Some of it has to do with how they're pinging me differently in another game I'm playing with them.

Please don't give me collywobbles wondering what you mean, can you talk about this a little more? What is your gut telling you about Wednesday and how does that lead to a null read? What's different from the other game?

What do you think about droog?

[lilith2013]

you took the vote back
but i dont remember taking the logic back

Well I admit I was wrong, I think I jumped to conclusions without reading the thread properly. I do that sometimes.

[lilith2013]

Oh god now I'm not only analyzing people's posts for scum motivation I'm also dissecting them for word sneak motivation

the setup is cool but just a distraction
there's no penalty if i dont use all the words right

Yeah there's no penalty, you just can't get the extra vote.

What's your read on Wednesday?

very null
hes someone i want to interact with i think

Any other reads to share? And do you have any other questions for me?

[lilith2013]

im not going to start a vanity wagon
i dont see any counters to lilac
im not opposed to a lilac wagon

but barring any major read changes im going to sit back
and try to see what else there is to do today
i will definitely hammer if needed

this is exactly where I am.

droog looks towny to me (also I'm a big fan of your posting style).

Lilith what's your read on lilac? I looked through your ISO and I don't think I see you taking a stance on her one way or the other.

I believe I said it would depend on further explanation of how she formed her townreads.

But I think I'm leaning town, I see no scum motivation in making a push on Postie and Vander, whom no one else was scumreading(?). I think you said this too, I would have expected a jump onto my wagon, because that would have been the easiest to push to a mislynch.

[lilith2013]

why are you sheeping man's wednesday case
when you're also worried about the 'collywobble'

Er.. Please explain how I am sheeping his case? Not even sure he has a case because he says she is null. Whereas I am voting her.

[lilith2013]

@Lilith it's gut null read based on this on going game and how they are acting different in another on going game. I'm only bringing it up because I was asked and that's how I feel, other than that discussing it further doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

I am at sixes and sevens as to how you can have a gut read that is null... But okay.

VOTE: wednesday

Explain, please?

[lilith2013]

Like what, a quickhammer? I doubt scum would draw such attention to themselves this early.

[lilith2013]

her flip would tell me more about Davsto and lilith.

How so?

[lilith2013]

why are you sheeping man's wednesday case
when you're also worried about the 'collywobble'

Er.. Please explain how I am sheeping his case? Not even sure he has a case because he says she is null. Whereas I am voting her.

VOTE: wednesday

Explain, please?

Hi, do you mind answering my questions?

[lilith2013]

for #2 see 301
for 1 i have to reread that chunk

Did you have a reason beyond "I'll see what people do when I vote wednesday"? Or was that it?

[lilith2013]

Well I'd thought she had made a genuine effort to answer Postie's question so that was giving me doubts about the scummy vibes I was feeling. But TMWSTW pointed out that Wednesday had never directly answered Postie's question so I felt like that, on top of the lack of effort towards scumhunting, merited a vote. Especially because I was against the lilac wagon, and I wanted to move the momentum elsewhere.

[lilith2013]

Why are you nerds debating between me and lilac? You realize other players exist yes? Am still hella busy. Instead of talking yourselves to death with lilac or wednesday put others in contention to see how they react you seriously don't expect me to believe you've done nothing but argue lilac or Wednesday? Jesus.

Welcome expediance. Unfortunately I'm not so kind as others might be to give you the courtesy of an unvote. You should ask the mod for an extension by the way it would help me loads.

Um.. We're down to the last day so I really don't think we have time to form a brand new wagon. Would much rather have a lynch happen on a wagon that's there than risk a no lynch on a new wagon..

her flip would tell me more about Davsto and lilith.

How so?

You seem pretty intent on avoiding the lilac wagon, I thought Davsto's vote on it was weakest. If lilac flips town, townpoints for you, scumpoints for Davsto.

If lilac flips scum, scumpoints for you and townpoints for Davsto.

The opposite scenario on Wednesday doesn't really work because Davsto jumped on lilac but has no reason to switch to Wednesday regardless of his alignment.

But... Scumpartners can bus and reads can be wrong. I don't think it's this black and white. But I get what you mean about lilac vs. Wednesday.

[lilith2013]

Aww game ended while I was asleep good game though, I enjoyed sneaking in my words and guessing other people's!

My words:
Moderator
Ridiculous
Miraculous
Angry Birds
That guy who died on the boat in Jaws… you know, not Quint, but the other one…, like the one that they found his body and the red haired doctor guy is like "Woah, WTF"

[lilith2013]

aero, sorry about your laptop

can i pre-in for WS2 now?