Micro 580: Shortnight Mafia [GAME OVER]

[lovelygiant]

Woah woah woah.

Definitely picked the right game to pop my mafiascum cherry. I'm definitely excited to see how this setup plays out.

Hello to Chenoan and Radiant Cowbells. The opening interaction is interesting, because either Radiant is civ and excellently caught Chenoan slipping up or Chenoan is civ and too easily got backed into a corner. Although I obviously can't prove it, I know that one of you has to be scum and I think this will be easier to decide on than I thought before the game started.

Votes are not nearly as precious a resource as early posts would have you believe. Hammering would reveal way too much for mafia, and if a civ hammers this early, they've more than earned the vengekill they'll eat.

So far I'm liking Radiant for mirroring similar thoughts.

[lovelygiant]

Heh. Can you imagine if I hammered Chen and he flipped scum? Maestro would be so bummed that a mafia got boned page 1.

[lovelygiant]

But in all seriousness, two people post that random votes are probably bad and then you vote for a non-game reason? Either you really think this game is just super town sided or part of you hopes to trick town into quicklynches and then framing the hammerer.

No, I just think that they're idiots who don't properly understand the setup.
I don't like you forcing that false dichotomy on me either; I'm not remotely concerned about a quickhammer happening and I don't understand why you are either.

Chenoan, have you considered that you just don't understand this setup as well as you seem to think you do? It's not nearly as dire as you've made it out to be.

[lovelygiant]

And right before you set up the dichotomy, you thank Radiant for enlightening you. How can you claim to be enlightened about the setup and then immediately avoid applying what you've learned to instead make Radiant look suspicious?

I hope I'm not tunneling too early but that doesn't look good.

Also: I have a tendency to post in spurts back-to-back-to-back. Expect that a lot.

[lovelygiant]

Wait: this game has plurality lynches, correct? So the phase does not end early, even if a player reaches two votes on him?

@Maestro

[lovelygiant]

Well no, I thought it was nothing to fear, but Lovelygiant's said some things that indicated that he might actually do it.

So I'd rather unvote.

I was hoping you'd catch that. That right there is why I'm townreading you already. Scum would have let it be and scores an easy lynch.

So now it's my turn.

VOTE: Chenoan

[lovelygiant]

What's he gonna do, quickhammer you?
Then he'll be confirmed scum and we'll either vengekill him and confirm him as scum or speedlynch him tomorrow.
I don't understand your fears here.

This felt like pushing a fast lynch from my point of view.

He literally provided valid reasoning as to how it wasn't, but okay.

[lovelygiant]

Don't let my first game be this easy, really.

And if I'm being played, RC deserves an award for screaming town so clearly.

[lovelygiant]

Yeah, wait, shouldn't you be scumreading me if anyone, Chenoan?

And trying to stop the "I'm civ and will vengekill you" tag line isn't selling your case.

Oh boy, this is fun.

[lovelygiant]

edit: "trying to drop," not stop.

[lovelygiant]

I'd love input from the other group of three to make sure I'm not tunneling.

[lovelygiant]

Same. But there's no benefit to killing him early and sacrificing any potential info he might slip in the process. Plus, it will be nice to see who, if anyone, jumps to his aid from the other group.

[lovelygiant]

Yeah, pretty much.

I like you.

Thanks! I like you too. I won't claim to be very good at this, as my other mafia experience comes from 10 or so games with some friends on another forum that has nothing to do with mafia. It's really nice to play with strangers for a change. The meta of knowing everyone too well got tiresome.

[lovelygiant]

From what I've read, RadiantCowbells often aggressively cases others. I've only seen a game where she was cult leader, though.

And trying to stop the "I'm civ and will vengekill you" tag line isn't selling your case.

I've only played in one completed Newbie game but two people did this in that game and they were both Town. One was mislynched, and was the doctor. This isn't a scumtell.

They had vengekills in a newbie game?

[lovelygiant]

No, they just said things like 'I'm Town' or 'I'm part of the uninformed majority trying to figure this game out'.

I feel like that is different. The implied threat of the vengekill is what irked me.

[lovelygiant]

Saying you are town isn't a scumtell, obviously.

[lovelygiant]

I just get nasty feelings about the way that he was trying to ward me off hammering with an appeal to vengekilling me instead of trying to convince me he was town or something.

With possible tunneling in mind, I could see a poor civ panicking and falling back on that, but it is pretty scummy.

[lovelygiant]

As is the traditional disappearance instead of giving a real defense when the heat gets to be too much.

Although I have to get used to players not being on 24/7 like at my old forum. Day phases were ALWAYS 36 hours. So we made an effort to be present. I guess it's fair to give him time.

[lovelygiant]

You managed to not acknowledge that I've handed RC the hammer. He has chosen not to use it, for very town-driven reasons. Certainly that alone should make you reconsider your scumread on him?

Me passing the hammer opportunity to RC should actually be seen as a scummy tactic to shirk blame for lynching you, if you really are town. That's what

I

would think, in your shoes.

[lovelygiant]

And didn't we both day we are NOT gunning for a quick lynch anymore? RC and I agreed we should wait to hear from the other GO3.

[lovelygiant]

Get crackalackin, Group 2. We've already found our scum in the time it took you to scratch your ass and have a snooze.

[lovelygiant]

All I've been able to discuss so far is about Group 1. I wouldn't be surprised if the scum in my group is lurking this out.

Uhhh since you're the only one who has really posted, wouldn't this

literally have to be the case

if you're town??

also hi, I'm ubiquitously shit at D1s but this entire game is D1 so here we fucking go

i'm recording a few podcast episodes today and can probably dive into this a bit more this evening

Podcast?

I guess this isn't the time nor place for a discussion about it but if you remember post-game feel free to send me a link.

Also, Username, being basically the only active player in group 2 and defending Chenoan earlier made you look a tad shady. But given your whole group hasn't said much of anything, it's nothing truly condemning. Although if you are town, I'd advise more effort to create conversation amongst your group, lest they wallflower perpetually.

[lovelygiant]

Also your painfully awkward most recent interaction. Yikes.

[lovelygiant]

Is there a "Who's Posted?" function that shows post distribution in a thread amongst players? My old forum had one and I find it pretty useful later in the game to analyze overall activity and to go from ISO to ISO with ease.

[lovelygiant]

lol defending someone you view as scum doesn't make me suspicious

It does to me, if I'm certain they're scum. lol

[lovelygiant]

Is there a "Who's Posted?" function that shows post distribution in a thread amongst players?

Bottom right, underneath the page number buttons:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... overview=1

Thank you kindly.

[lovelygiant]

I entered like it was a slam dunk thing because it reads like a slam dunk thing. Chen's posts aren't very town-driven at all. If you can't see that, I feel bad for you, Ranger. If I'm going to garner suspicion for being confident in my read, I'll live with that lol.

[lovelygiant]

I'm still insistent on the fact that Chen, if town, should have been scumreading me after I traded hammers with RC, but instead he stayed on RC for fear of being inconsistent. He just breathes scum in town's clothing.

[lovelygiant]

EBWOP: Was talking to Reckoner, not Ranger, in post 96.

[lovelygiant]

Furthermore, the fact that Reckoner sees my "fence-sitting" and subsequent posts calling out Chen as scummier than Chen's entire mess doesn't feel right.

[lovelygiant]

From a strategic standpoint, if Chen is mafia, the smartest thing to do now would be to try and push for me. He can't vote RC and conceivably succeed because that would require me also voting RC to hammer, which ain't happening. His only move left would be to lynch me as attempt to convince RC to switch with him, which is more realistic. That's the biggest problem with this game's structure (that I've found anyway.) Unless I'm missing something.

[lovelygiant]

lovelygiant, what's your history with playing Mafia?

If you've read the thread, I've posted it. Pay more attention plz

[lovelygiant]

Yeah, pretty much.

I like you.

Thanks! I like you too. I won't claim to be very good at this, as my other mafia experience comes from 10 or so games with some friends on another forum that has nothing to do with mafia. It's really nice to play with strangers for a change. The meta of knowing everyone too well got tiresome.

Firstly, I HAVE posted explaining this already. Your ineptitude is disheartening.

Secondly, you're very insistent about my answering, as if you already have a planned interaction ready. Spit out whatever you're going to say, dear. Don't sound phony. Like claiming I "never answered the question" when I quite literally have, instead of placing your overcofidence in check and looking at my ISO in the (apparently likely) event that you could be mistaken.

[lovelygiant]

I can smell the "you've only played 10 games so here's why I'm gonna consider your reads less valuable" post.

[lovelygiant]

Okay, so you're somewhat experienced, which makes it unlikely that you're noobTown. That means you're either really cocky, sheepy Town in early Day One (a rather unlikely combination) or scum.

you left out the possibility of me being right, conveniently. although I am cocky.

I can't help feeling cocky when it seems like I'm right. And I can't be sheeping when I stated my own reasoning for suspecting Chen, instead of just copying RC. I even made an effort to test RC's innocence with the hammer switch (if you bothered reading that) and was pleased with the results. so by PoE, I have to suspect Chen. I'm not left with much other choice.

[lovelygiant]

I didn't know there was a V/LA banner.

I might discount your slip-up about my post considering it's the second time you didn't read thoroughly, so I can't be sure that's alignment indicative. It might just be your overall playstyle. Something I recommend you work on nonetheless.

[lovelygiant]

From what I've read, RadiantCowbells often aggressively cases others. I've only seen a game where she was cult leader, though.

And trying to stop the "I'm civ and will vengekill you" tag line isn't selling your case.

I've only played in one completed Newbie game but two people did this in that game and they were both Town. One was mislynched, and was the doctor. This isn't a scumtell.

it is noteworthy that your first post in the thread was used to discredit RC and I after we started voicing suspicion on Chen, yet you managed to not mention Chen at all, possibly to avoid being too forward in your defense.

RC, I know this is going to seem like more buddying, but I'd like your insight on this.

[lovelygiant]

I actually think LG is more likely scum than Chen in Group 1. Rereading the interactions in group 1, it seems very much like Chen v RC had gotten into swing when LG arrives.

- Chen v RC over Radiohead jokey bullshit
- RC calls out Chen's paranoia over the "quickhammer" fear
- RC declares his vote serious
- LG shows up with a fence-sitting post leaving options open
- LG takes the pressure already on Chen and RUNS with it

I dunno. Something about the way LG entered the thread and immediately thought this Chen thing was a slam dunk is really rubbing me the wrong way, in retrospect. I think I'd prefer LG > Chen > RC at this point.

putting slam dunk in quotes is a bit unnecessary because I started using the phrase by quoting you. Rolled with out because it sounded silly, and is intentionally overexaggerated to make my read sound overconfident. decided to claim it for myself instead of gripe about it.

[lovelygiant]

also, you're total cherry-picking, I have stated many reasons other than the hammer scenario is material worth lynching Chen over. And how the hammer thing applies to Chen vs. RC is two different things. I used it to both check RC AND Chen — they reacted

very

differently.

[lovelygiant]

Ok so I read the first two pages and you guys are scumreading Chen for a bad RVS (which is a valid reason), not understanding the setup (see most of page one), and his playstyle so far. I can't understand how this scumread is so obvious.

his playstyle and tone thus far reeks of scum and you're very much downplaying that fact.

[lovelygiant]

I even made an effort to test RC's innocence with the hammer switch (if you bothered reading that) and was pleased with the results. so by PoE, I have to suspect Chen

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what the fucking DICK is this?

LG spent page one "slam dunking" Chen because Chen believed the quickhammer scenario was likely in this game and LG/RC railroaded the shit out of Chen for it, and now LG is using the exact same principle to call RC town?

Fuck that

Y'all lynch this

this is just as slam-dunky are you serious lol

[lovelygiant]

I might discount your slip-up about my post considering it's the second time you didn't read thoroughly, so I can't be sure that's alignment indicative. It might just be your overall playstyle. Something I recommend you work on nonetheless.

lmfao, this arrogant motherfucker

arrogance =/= calling out a player for painfully skimming the thread and missing relatively important shit.

[lovelygiant]

Furthermore, the fact that Reckoner sees my "fence-sitting" and subsequent posts calling out Chen as scummier than Chen's entire mess doesn't feel right.

ERROR: ATTEMPT TO PARSE FAILED, PLEASE REPHRASE

I'll rephrase. So far you've called me out for both fence-sitting (holding off on deciding somebody is scum or not) and then deciding that person is scum. you put me in a lose-lose situation. what do you want?

Ranger is reading the cleanest out of your group for me thus far, although Username has done a decent job of at least sounding town-minded (minus the misreads). You, however, leave me unsure.

RC, you've popped on the forum no less than four times since your last post and haven't said anything.

[lovelygiant]

EBWOP: I see you're in other games, RC. I apologize.

[lovelygiant]

also, I'm like really, really positive on my townread of RC (so far). By PoE I have no choice but to suspect Chen. So regardless of your disagreement with my suspicion of him, I kind of have to lynch him.

[lovelygiant]

And arguing my lynch of Chen means you would rather me suspect Radiant...? Is there even any logical case against RC? Not sure what you're asking of me.

[lovelygiant]

No, we suspect you, obviously.

Oh, right. That's a shame.

To explain further, if I think you're scum why should I care who you're suspecting?

I suppose if you want to play that way, you can. But that's a really shitty mindset to have, in my personal opinion. At least try to pretend you're scum hunting—you know, that thing I've been doing while half the players avoid this game like the plague.

FoS at RC, thanks for announcing you plan on barely existing until EoD. Why am I bothering to put in this effort if everybody doesn't care? Idk.

[lovelygiant]

Pretty sure Chen is scum and so this game is my lowest priority until I'm caught up elsewhere.

If you're town, the other group should be of some concern as well to you, right? Play to your win condition ffs, there's a mafia there too.

[lovelygiant]

Unvote.

[lovelygiant]

Ranger has barely even started posting yet and she's the person that I'm most able to read.

Only because I'm always town and you assuming I am town will by default be right.

I did think RC was the most town and untouchable until RC was like 'LOL DON'T CARE ABOUT GROUP 2' and has shown no signs of scumhunting over in this pod, which I feel like is scum mindset. Note to self: it probably means that if RC is scum, then at this moment, RC's buddy isn't under intense scrutiny or fire over here, so RC/Ranger pairing is most likely in that scenario.

And with this, you're inverting your initial reads. This fits with the classical "distance from buddy, don't actually bus" methodology from scum: you called Chenoan as the most likely scum initially to look good, yet now when push comes to shove, you've pushed lovelygiant hard and are using nit-picky details blown out of proportion to paint RadiantCowbells in a bad light, which by default places Chenoan at the top. You're deliberately trying to set up lovelygiant-RC antagonism, setting them against one another.

bless you

RC's responses have also eased my qualms.

VOTE: Chenoan

[lovelygiant]

I should also explain that my "flooding the thread" has a lot to do with playing mafia entirely off of an iPhone 4, which makes multi-quote posts extremely tedious and difficult. So I'm forced to respond to one quote at a time. I apologize of this looks spammy but I don't have much else choice.

[lovelygiant]

I'm sorry for your illness.

I don't know if "doubled in size" is a big deal at 7 pages, though.

[lovelygiant]

I also need to reconsider things. Chen's wall post came off as very towny and unexpected.

Unvote.

For the record, in all of my past experience on the other forum, games were always 20 or so players, and there was no hammer, at all. When deadline came, the votes were tallied for that phase and whoever was in the lead was lynched. The whole concept of hammers is still new to me so I've been very experimental with it this game to see how it can be used in less straightforward ways. It's kind of neat.

[lovelygiant]

I also need to reconsider things. Chen's wall post came off as very towny and unexpected.

Unvote.

For the record, in all of my past experience on the other forum, games were always 20 or so players, and there was no hammer, at all. When deadline came, the votes were tallied for that phase and whoever was in the lead was lynched. The whole concept of hammers is still new to me so I've been very experimental with it this game to see how it can be used in less straightforward ways. It's kind of neat.

Yeah, so I really don't like how when I started FoSing Chen, LG immediately jumped on the wagon and moved to hammer, and then every time I've doubted that townread he starts doubting his townread on me as well.

I get the feeling he could just be trying to side with whoever's townreading him to get the other lynched. I don't really feel a lot of scumhunting vibes from him?

What did you like in Chen's wall? Why do (did) you think that I'm town?

I feel like my reads on people in relation to them townreading me is more coincidental than causal. I have been doing my best to scum hunt, whether or not I've been successful at it.

It wasn't specific points in Chen's post, but more the way he wasn't afraid to garner more attention and create more discussion around him by calling out pretty much everyone, the opposite of what a scum would typically want in that situation, right? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I found you very civ for your withdrawn vote in fear of my hammer, amongst other things. Our early interactions with Chen revealed a lot, I thought, but the more I look at them, the more I can see them with both town and mafia motives, myself included. That's what the doubt and Unvote/revote nonsense was about.

I find myself confusing Reck's and Ranger's reads a lot. I'm gonna reexamine the thread in its entirety while it is still short.

[lovelygiant]

@163, interesting point. I should try to keep that in mind while I re-read.

[lovelygiant]

In early Day One, Town shouldn't be as confident as lovelygiant is.

Chenoan's opening was bad, but that's really all I can see in the case against him.

Also, VOTE: Ranger for not participating and not leaving a reason for participating.

This defense still irks me. Chen's opening was

bad?

That's really all you see? Not his direct paranoia over being quick hammered? Not his scumread of RC for "inciting an early lynch" even though RC totally backed out the second I laid out an intent to hammer? Not his general sketched out tone, him only replying to anything mentioning him instead of analyzing any interaction between me and RC, or him saying RC is buddying me to seed doubt, when all RC said was "I like you"?

If you can't see why I was confident in Chen's guilt early on, I highly suggest you reread pages 1-2.

[lovelygiant]

@Ranger: What makes you think I am scum?

Bad RVS. Rather, lack of. Your 4 felt like it was an attempt to earn town credit. This is especially true given Chenoan (my main suspect from the other pod) immediately mirrored you in 5: it looked like something that you two had a conversation about in the scum topic, with you filling the role of IC and Chenoan being a newbie:
"Hey, so, in this setup, it would be a HILARIOUSLY bad idea to RVS, so don't do it", maybe with explanations as to why, perhaps even with your intended strategy coming into the day being discussed, with Chenoan going,
"Okay, makes sense".

I also feel like 61 is making an excuse for being wrong: "Oh, I'm always bad early, so if I'm bad it's not because I'm scum, I'm just bad, honest".

These were admittedly the weakest reasons I've seen do a scum read this game. The first is just a pure stretch and an unlikely narrative. The second is plausible but I imagine Reck knew somebody would say that, and I can't see him posting that as scum for such reasons. I know I'm bringing up old shit; just refreshing myself.

[lovelygiant]

{RadiantCowbells}
{lovelygiant}
{This is my username}
{xRecokonerx, Chenoan}

It isn't until after this insinuation that Reck and Chen could be a team, that Reck begins to deconstruct Chen's posts with reads that RC and I already pointed out, phrased differently.

[lovelygiant]

I actually think LG is more likely scum than Chen in Group 1. Rereading the interactions in group 1, it seems very much like Chen v RC had gotten into swing when LG arrives.

- Chen v RC over Radiohead jokey bullshit
- RC calls out Chen's paranoia over the "quickhammer" fear
- RC declares his vote serious
- LG shows up with a fence-sitting post leaving options open
- LG takes the pressure already on Chen and RUNS with it

I dunno. Something about the way LG entered the thread and immediately thought this Chen thing was a slam dunk is really rubbing me the wrong way, in retrospect. I think I'd prefer LG > Chen > RC at this point.

But then a swift switch to suspicion on me. Convenient to be suspicious of Chen

just

long enough for some distance before this poor attempt to divert attention.

I'm thinking Ranger was on point with his read list. If I had to guess the scum team for my life right now, it would be Chen/Reckoner. The interactions show it.

[lovelygiant]

and now for my arrow-pointy read list (don't believe I've made one yet)

my group: (in order of most to least suspicious)
Chen > RC > LG (obviously)

other group:
Reckoner > TIMU > Ranger

[lovelygiant]

Barely existing until end of day, what?
Ranger has barely even started posting yet and she's the person that I'm most able to read.
You will not end this game feeling like I did not do enough for town.
I could see both Reck and Username as scum atm and want to see what Ranger brings to the table.

If I were in that group, I would not vote lovelygiant, like, ever. The hostility on page five, while unpleasant and unnecessary, was very much town hostility.

I also like This is my username's questioning on the page. Their back-and-forth looks like two town players discussing.

well shit, here's to me townreading people who think I'm town.

maybe y'all are right. :rip:

[lovelygiant]

fucked up that post, there was a comment directed at the quote of RC's mentioning that I'm again comforted by our reads being so similar, even toward the other group. The comment for Ranger's quote still stands.

[lovelygiant]

Oh, dear. I wish you weren't scumreading me, but I don't know how to stop you. My flip-floppiness was genuine because, whilst second guessing my scum read on Chen, it left only you to consider. The reason I went BACK to town-reading you was the overall assessment that, no matter how my brain spun it, you were just unarguably cleaner and I was making a mistake.

I do strongly agree with your reads on Reck for my previously explained reasons. I think you're reading his relation to Chen and me

backwards

though. It seems almost transparent to me, go and look at those posts of his, in context. He didn't start dissecting Chen until AFTER ranger mentioned the likelihood of them being a team, and after he had felt he's done his due diligence for the sake of distance, he acted as if he suddenly found me way more guilty. It's bogus as all hell. I guess the transparency comes from knowing my alignment, though. And that I can't prove. Working on it.

[lovelygiant]

I do agree with the insincerity of Reck's push for my apparently obvious malalignment, especially while claiming

I

am the arrogant or cocky one.

[lovelygiant]

But I guess I can't blame you for lightening your scum read on Chen after I did the same. His wall post was unarguably the most town he has sounded thus far.

[lovelygiant]

I also need to reconsider things. Chen's wall post came off as very towny and unexpected.

Unvote.

For the record, in all of my past experience on the other forum, games were always 20 or so players, and there was no hammer, at all. When deadline came, the votes were tallied for that phase and whoever was in the lead was lynched. The whole concept of hammers is still new to me so I've been very experimental with it this game to see how it can be used in less straightforward ways. It's kind of neat.

Yeah, so I really don't like how when I started FoSing Chen, LG immediately jumped on the wagon and moved to hammer, and then every time I've doubted that townread he starts doubting his townread on me as well.

I get the feeling he could just be trying to side with whoever's townreading him to get the other lynched. I don't really feel a lot of scumhunting vibes from him?

What did you like in Chen's wall? Why do (did) you think that I'm town?

I feel like my reads on people in relation to them townreading me is more coincidental than causal. I have been doing my best to scum hunt, whether or not I've been successful at it.

It wasn't specific points in Chen's post, but more the way he wasn't afraid to garner more attention and create more discussion around him by calling out pretty much everyone, the opposite of what a scum would typically want in that situation, right? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I found you very civ for your withdrawn vote in fear of my hammer, amongst other things. Our early interactions with Chen revealed a lot, I thought, but the more I look at them, the more I can see them with both town and mafia motives, myself included. That's what the doubt and Unvote/revote nonsense was about.

I find myself confusing Reck's and Ranger's reads a lot. I'm gonna reexamine the thread in its entirety while it is still short.

I already have explained why I was "discrediting" you (which quite frankly isn't the case). And I no longer feel that way. I had my second thoughts about Chen but after stumbling upon his connection with Reck (and subsequently, finding Ranger feeling similarly) bolstered my scumread on Chen.

I'm fairly confident in the possibility of a Chen/Reck team and don't see why you doubt the possibility of one, RC. Double ISO Chen and Reck for me and tell me what you see. If you're still so skeptical, I'll look through again.

[lovelygiant]

an OVERALL scum read list, including both groups. Scum on top, town on bottom.

Reckoner
Chenoan
-
TIMU
-
Ranger
Radiant Cowbells
Lovelygiant

TIMU lands in neutral territory, could be swapped with Reck for the mafia of his group. I don't find it entirely likely, but the possibility is there I guess.

[lovelygiant]

wow. I'm actually impressed, Ranger. I didn't think it so simply, but makes total sense.

anyone see any holes in this? I honestly don't.

[lovelygiant]

I've seen scum play exactly like that, albeit in a very different atmosphere.

I'm not calling off suspicion on Reck so soon, but I'll be open to consideration. Carry on.

(although that's literally self-meta, what?)

[lovelygiant]

note: TIMU would have no scum motivation to help clean Reck, right?

And as such, scum wouldn't have a reason to work so hard to re-analyze a scum read in their own group. TIMU, if mafia, would have just let the wagon in Reck continue and wouldn't even have had to convince Ranger, who's already voting Reck.

Bumping TIMU to townlisted for now.

[lovelygiant]

I've seen scum play exactly like that, albeit in a very different atmosphere.

I'm not calling off suspicion on Reck so soon, but I'll be open to consideration. Carry on.

(although that's literally self-meta, what?)

Again, it's not self-meta.

Self-meta would be me trying to explain away my actions by going "I took these actions elsewhere and I do this as town".

As it stands, someone was like "why are you saying you're shit at D1" and I went "because oh my god I got rammed for it in this other game and I don't want it to happen again".

I'll let this diatribe decease, because I really don't care.

Tell me your thoughts on Ranger's latest breakdown of the setup.

[lovelygiant]

EBWOP: not diatribe, dialogue.

[lovelygiant]

Readslist:

SCUM
lovelygiant
Ranger (by PoE)
NOT SURE
Chenoan

TOWN
RadiantCowbells
Reckoner
TiMU

Interesting. Not long ago you were reading me as town for my responses, and I've now made the top of your scum list. YET, you haven't provided reasons for the change in read or for town to pursue my lynch. That doesn't feel civilian oriented at all.

[lovelygiant]

Oh, and the order each name is in each group doesn't affect my read on them. For example, RadiantCowbells is more likely Town than Reckoner.

Whoops, I've jumped the gun. But still, do explain your scum reads.

I'd also ask that you re-order your list to show your confidence in each read, but I have a feeling you made that list without any order in mind because you don't have any. Feels contrived.

[lovelygiant]

lol

RadiantCowbells is pretty clearly Town, Reckoner looks like frustrated Town, Chenoan's RVS was really bad and he could be the scum in your group but everything else he's said is fine, Ranger is scum in Group 2 by PoE, and you're buddying with RadiantCowbells's reads and don't feel like Town at all.

Actually, if you were paying any attention, my scumreads were based on the interaction between Reck/Chen that RANGER pointed out first, aptly. Convenient narrative.

Didn't you previously say Chen's RVS

wasn't

a solid reason to suspect him, and that you didn't agree with his lynch? What changed?

Why is Reckoner's frustration town, but my frustration (which you earlier claimed was towny) is no longer genuine? Please outline the difference.

You're getting messy, again. And I'm exhausted with it being explained away.

[lovelygiant]

correction: you apparently weren't the one townreading me for my frustration.

also:

In early Day One, Town shouldn't be as confident as lovelygiant is.

Chenoan's opening was bad, but that's really all I can see in the case against him.

Also, VOTE: Ranger for not participating and not leaving a reason for participating.

Ok so I read the first two pages and you guys are scumreading Chen for a bad RVS (which is a valid reason), not understanding the setup (see most of page one), and his playstyle so far. I can't understand how this scumread is so obvious.

WRT your scumread on Chen, how has it strengthened from here, when you doubted the suspicion?

[lovelygiant]

an OVERALL scum read list, including both groups. Scum on top, town on bottom.

Reckoner
Chenoan
-
TIMU
-
Ranger
Radiant Cowbells
Lovelygiant

TIMU lands in neutral territory, could be swapped with Reck for the mafia of his group. I don't find it entirely likely, but the possibility is there I guess.

This list most closely represents my thoughts currently.

Reck's frustration isn't giving me the town vibes that others are seeing. He's aimed a lot of suspicion at Ranger, and I believe it's because of Ranger making the Chen/Reck connection (look at my ISO if you want to refresh yourself on that. The timeline of interactions makes sense to me.)

Yes, Chen's RVS was lame. His everything has been lame and I've yet to see any real contribution to the game from him, sadly. It's also partially POE because I read RC to be town.

TIMU is in the doghouse for me, which has changed since this list. His ISO is riddled with confusion and misunderstanding. He's made so many mistakes, and while I can't claim they're extremely alignment indicative, they are poor play altogether and deserve closer examination. He hasn't seemed game-solvey, and his reads list was weak and unexplained.

Ranger earns a townread for his(her? can't remember) apt game setup speculation and effort to find scum. He's the one who spotted the Chen/Reck possibility first and I have to give him/her credit there. His effort and voice seems genuine.

RC has been very careful this game, avoided the early hammer like a good civ, hasn't been afraid to call out anything of suspicion. Similar to Ranger, your reads often mirror mine and I find that important.

[lovelygiant]

I would like Reck's and TIMU's lists with explanation next.

I'm still firm on lynching Chen. I don't see that changing. The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

[lovelygiant]

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

[lovelygiant]

Ranger earns a townread for his(her? can't remember) apt game setup speculation and effort to find scum.

Note to self, paint a gigantic sign on my wiki spelling out, "FEMALE".

I had a feeling I was getting it wrong. I know an IRL pair of twins named Hunter and Ranger. Forgive me

[lovelygiant]

LG's ISO might take a bit since they have literally 1/3 of the posts in the game.

I've explained that it's because I'm a mobile user and multi-quoting on this POS phone has always been a hassle for me. But, like every game, you'll find people twisting it into an argument against me.

(Here, a multi quote, JUST for you!)

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

This post seems weird to me somehow. It doesn't really have a point.

I was getting annoyed by Reck's attitude of "I control my group! I have authority! Bzzzzt onomatopoeia!"

I guess that's just his playstyle.

[lovelygiant]

also, @RC:

You're fairly certain TIMU is town. Could you clarify why? Is it in spite of his many slip-ups?

Because

of them? Or nothing to do with that altogether? Mostly curious, as I don't think anyone has commented on them in relation to their read of TIMU. So I'm struggling to be sure whether they're a scummy thing or possibly a towny thing. Still leaning in scum, but would like insight.

I guess this question could be answered by anyone interested.

[lovelygiant]

And right before you set up the dichotomy, you thank Radiant for enlightening you. How can you claim to be enlightened about the setup and then immediately avoid applying what you've learned to instead make Radiant look suspicious?

I hope I'm not tunneling too early but that doesn't look good.

Also: I have a tendency to post in spurts back-to-back-to-back. Expect that a lot.

I should also explain that my "flooding the thread" has a lot to do with playing mafia entirely off of an iPhone 4, which makes multi-quote posts extremely tedious and difficult. So I'm forced to respond to one quote at a time. I apologize of this looks spammy but I don't have much else choice.

LG's ISO might take a bit since they have literally 1/3 of the posts in the game.

I've explained that it's because I'm a mobile user and multi-quoting on this POS phone has always been a hassle for me. But, like every game, you'll find people twisting it into an argument against me.

(Here, a multi quote, JUST for you!)

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

This post seems weird to me somehow. It doesn't really have a point.

I was getting annoyed by Reck's attitude of "I control my group! I have authority! Bzzzzt onomatopoeia!"

I guess that's just his playstyle.

And yet, Chen, you STILL had to make a comment about my postcount somehow being scummy. Tired of repeating myself.

Your wall post is not giving me what I needed from you.

VOTE: Chenoan

Unlikely to change at this point. I'm set.

[lovelygiant]

Suddenly TIMU's looking towny in comparison. Jeez.

[lovelygiant]

Suddenly TIMU's looking towny in comparison. Jeez.

You flipflop worse than sandals.

VOTE: lovelygiant

I'm honestly not gonna have time to finish those isos this week because a friend is visiting from out of town. But I'm pretty convinced you're the scum now.

"in comparison"

but okay, I'm not even a shred nervous. If you were playing this game even remotely wisely, you'd be wanting RC mislynched so they would be forced to pick a vengekill between us. My choice will be easy.

[lovelygiant]

Although A+ to the sandals joke. Quality comedy.

[lovelygiant]

I'm still sold on the Reck/Chen scumteam and will be vengekilling accordingly should both lynches flip town. Just making that known.

[lovelygiant]

NOW who's threatening to vengekill if they get lynched? God I didn't even threaten a specific person.

Though for the record, if we lynch two town and you kill me, it's game over.
But tbh, I'm pretty sure you just slipped hard.

Who's slipping where? I didn't mention one specific person; I named two.

The smart move if Ranger and I are mislynched is to vengekill Reck.

Reck flips scum, leaving you, RC, and TIMU. It would be down to you trying to convince one to lynch the other, which won't succeed.

[lovelygiant]

It isn't a threat by page 11, Chen. It's a realistic outcome.

[lovelygiant]

Call me stupid but I kinda wanna clear TIMU for the deadline confusion.

@TIMU, Apparently neither you not Chen grasped the joking tone I was trying to convey by making fun of Reck and Ranger "giving up," although joke or not, being the only one to not concede like they did is towny.

Not that it matters. Even if I find you a little scummy, there can only be one in each group and I don't think you're it.

I do love that being confident in my scumreads is scummy, and reconsidering and accordingly adjusting my scumreads is also scummy. Kind of bullshit.

[lovelygiant]

My lynch options? I couldn't lynch TIMU if I tried.

Also, don't you complain about me not going along with TIMU's universal townread when you fought RC's vehemently at first. You're hypocritical.

[lovelygiant]

I'm drunk and even I see through this bs. Lynch this plz.

OMGUS isn't any more acceptable when inebriated.

[lovelygiant]

^ essentially. Ranger and I have made it clear who we would vengekill. Chen has done the same, TIMU just confirmed he isn't considering you. Don't remember what Reck has said but I doubt he'd go for you.

...So why are you really concerned?

[lovelygiant]

(If Radiant/Ranger is a thing, I gracefully accept my Honorary Mafia award by this point.)

[lovelygiant]

Hm.

This could be fun.

I may actually follow suit. Ranger and I can get our kill off, out Reck/Chen and be done with this whole thing.

[lovelygiant]

VOTE: lovelygiant

can't say this game wasn't interesting, at least.

[lovelygiant]

...

Good fucking game, RC. I look forward to playing with you in the future.