Micro 574 — Space Invaders Mafia 4 — Game Over

[Errantparabola]

Hello.
UNVOTE:
Give me about an hour to get home and i'll start my catchup.

[Errantparabola]

This is not a lot of content to work through so I'll be able to sort it out with relative ease, getting all associatives in order.

PAGES 1-5

?

What exactly do you think a scum would achieve by doing my first few posts?

More time to discuss during pregame?

So I liked Dewy's push on beeboy until this post. I don't understand why something scum-indicative has to have scum motive behind it. Part of the motive for scum is to appear town. Sometimes they fail in doing this. Beeboy tried to take away the legitimacy of this push by saying "oh, scumposting always has scum motive behind it and I don't see scum motive in my posting" which is bad. And dewy just seemed to buy it for some mysterious reason, and then beeboy pounces on dewy's weak response. Neither side stands out as towny because of this and this interaction is not grounds to rule out a bus.

VOTE: NM

Don't like his posting at all so far.

So far, I would agree with this vote. Noting a tone contradiction with the paranoid stance early game and the flippant stance surrounding the paranoia of apricity being lynched. That seems like scum pretending to be concerned about the game state.
I dislike that BBT didn't elaborate why NM was scummy to him, as that would help me establish a BBT read, but it's non alignment indic for now.

I like 3dice's posting so far. 84 seems like towndice and 88 seems like town in general.Both

Meh, dewy is town.

It isn't 6 but I would like to point out I disagree with that

I have scumreads are you proud of me I'm town see?
that's how that post reads to me.

BBT's push on NM isn't contentful enough for me to call it sincere but I agree with that shit so I like that we're on the same wavelength. or frequency.

{3dice}
{BBT}
{RC} <-- null but I will focus on sorting in upcoming stages of the catchup.
{Bulbazoor, NM}
{beeboy, Dewy}

[Errantparabola]

Actually, add NM to the bottom tier. That contradiction stands out to me.

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 6-10

Second, it's not the motive behind the push, it's the fact she's pushing at all that's drawing an early townread.

I disagree with you on that. Pushing people for the sake of pushing people is a scum motive that aims to look towny or get someone to slip up and force a bad lynch. An actual town would be able to back up a claim they made with a legit scum motif.

So I like the first part of that. But you narrowed the criteria for the push down so that a weak response was all that dewy could give. Why did you do that?

Trust me beeboy, I've just been snowballed super hard by dewy recently, and I'm going to have my eye on her all game, but so far she doesn't seem like her scum game.

Hey, 3dice. Why did you say this?
This is introducing doubt into the one townread that you have currently for other people's perspectives.
FOLLOW UP: 152 probably subverts this doubt on my townread I have on you. So never mind.

And Dewy's 137. Fascinating stuff.

And my question was in no way a townslip so stop.

It may have not townslip, but it's still a slip to me. Town should know how to win based on the game mechanics.

Absolutely not. This logic is basically begging to line up mislynches.
Dewy's interactions with beeboy implies bus to me.
Beeboy's interaction with dewy implies legit push to me.
This probably means dewy more likely scum but I'd like beeboy to respond to my accusations in 1-5 Catchup post.

{Dewy} Scum
{BlueBloodedToffee, 3dicerolling} Kinda Scum
{Bulbazoor} Neutral
{Soren, Not_Mafia} Idk
{RadiantCowbells} Town

You're gonna have to explain your kindascum.

From what I know, 3dice is not confident in his scumplay. That likely suggests that if 3dice is scum, Dewy is town. But since 3dice is likely town, his interactions suggest nothing about Dewy's alignment.

I don't buy the lynchbait argument. If Bulba plays a bad towngame, so be it. There's nothing suggesting that bulba doesn't play a bad scumgame, unless someone does hold this belief. Either way, I'm not putting bulba as town just because he's so-called lynchbait. But not explicitly scum either.
{3dice}
{BBT, RC} <-- RC is doing very little to advance the game state. But I am going to put this aside because based on RC's posting, I expect him to do this post-laserkill.
----
{Bulbazoor, beeboy}
{NM, Dewy}

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 11-15

Beeboy's positions real forced and I really feel like he's trying to rush push a lynch for some reason or other.
He might be just overly aggressive town but he feels like scum to me.
I don't like any of his reads postings either, they seem really generic and vague :S

Beeboy's postings don't suggest overly aggressive town to me. I disagree with these reasons to scumread him.

BBT dewy is worse imo

Dewy is someone that can be sorted.
NM is clearly not and is doing nothing to help. not someone we can have in the late game.
RC mirrors this sentiment later. That's good.

Dewy's 284 says almost nothing.
Takes almost 0 stances.
What a rush.

This is a complete strawman. I've shared my thoughts numerous times this game. I can't say the same for dewy. Either way, you should step out of your death tunnel every once in a while.

Okay yes I agree that beeboy's push on you is not good. But that last part is just so weird. "Oh hey Dewy isn't doing the town thing that I'm doing but still stop pushing her"
I agree with you that beeboy's push is faulty in a good number of places but that doesn't prevent dewy from being scum. Just because someone's push is bad doesn't mean that the person receiving the push is town. And I think beeboy's push on dewy is genuine.

\
Beeboy-In 246, he call 3dice and I passive,

but soren was just as

"neutral and passive". He didn't call soren out, and that seems off.

This implies that you and I were neutral and passive, and soren was acting like us.

There seems to be a misinterpretation, so I'll reword it:
Beeboy-In 246, he called 3dice and I passive, but soren was just as, if not more "neutral and passive". He didn't call soren out, and that seems off.

this is actually a damn fine point. I'll be looking at beeboy's reaction carefully.
beeboy's response was inadequate. sheeping hardcore does not imply the same things as neutral and passive. and i don't like that you expect it to imply the same things. when you sheep you're still taking a stance. Beeboy, respond to this please.

I looked at 323 and I looked back at dice's posting. I think that lack of reads progression can be easy to have as town. But I want to see what 3dice says. I am asking you to respond to RC

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

@3dice

What's up with this?

this is not even close to town.

Beeboy says that RC is trying to set up a beeboy lynch. I see 0 reason why that's scum indic considering beeboy is doing everything he can to stop NM from dying without actually interacting with NM and considering beeboy lynch is conditional on NM being scum. NM is dying d1, one way or another.

You know who else knows, who the scum are other scum. Think smart vote RC

I'm really confused with what you are trying to do here. One moment you are death tunneling me, the next, you are pushing RC. Feels off.
VOTE: beeboy

why is people leaving a death tunnel scum indicative?

{3dice} <-- I would like you to respond to RC btw.
{RC}
{BBT}
----
{Bulbazoor, beeboy}
{NM, Dewy}

I want NM killed and Dewy lynched as of right now.

pedit: hold on, beeboy. I will elaborate but I'd rather keep the catchup post separate.

[Errantparabola]

So I liked Dewy's push on beeboy until this post. I don't understand why something scum-indicative has to have scum motive behind it. Part of the motive for scum is to appear town. Sometimes they fail in doing this. Beeboy tried to take away the legitimacy of this push by saying "oh, scumposting always has scum motive behind it and I don't see scum motive in my posting" which is bad. And dewy just seemed to buy it for some mysterious reason, and then beeboy pounces on dewy's weak response. Neither side stands out as towny because of this and this interaction is not grounds to rule out a bus.

Beeboy. This is what I wuld like you to respond to.

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 16-20

I dislike BBT setting up to vote RC and then voting RC.

I'm sure scum saw me as incredibly unlikely to get lynched until this stupid wagon popped up and now want to capitalize on it quickly.

This is how I feel on this issue. The traction for RC's wagon was not there. I don't see where it came from. scum is on RC's wagon.

VOTE: RC

Plot twist

If you can post, at least post something helpful.

If you can post, at least post something helpful.

VOTE: RC

I'm done. Hammer this and kill everyone on the wagon.

This so scummy lol and from the way you where all reading Dewy I guarantee you will all eat it up and think this is a "genuine town" rage quit.

From what I know of RC's town play, he weighs his actions based on cost-benefit, which is possibly the reason for his gambits.
This is consistent with my opinion on townRC not because of the "rage quit." But because RC is weighing the cost of his life against the benefit of confirmation that the wagon is scum driven. I don't like how you try to paint RC's self vote as some rage quit. yawn

I do not react well to votes as town and this is consistent and anyone can tell you it.

and this basically throws what I just said about RC on its head.
RC I need you to clarify the reasons for your self vote please.

@Everyone, do me a little favor: List your top vig target and your top lynch target for today. Go.

I will be doing this as the bottom of catchup posts from now on.

{3dice}
{RC} <-- will depend on RC's answer i think.
{BBT}
{Bulbazoor}
{NM, Dewy, beeboy}

Vig NM. Townflip -> lynch dewy. Scumflip-> lynch beeboy. easy.

pedit. ohhhh i seen worse beeboy haha.

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 21-30 (BEcause not a lot to say on 21-25)

3dice is town. good.

Beeboy is scum playing games and needs to be vigged.

He even asked for a vig. do it.

explain why beeboy asking for a vig is scum indic

Scum!BBT can selfhammer now and get rid of our laser soht.

Please unvote.

peidt: ty

town motivated.

I think I have a better plan.
vig beeboy. if town, lynch dewy if scum lynch NM
actually both plans are fine.

Hi Errant! Tell us when you're caught up

I'm caught up apri

Not a lot changed from my last catch up post.

Beeboy is taking a long time to respond to me.

[Errantparabola]

yes. sorry. I should bold my questions to people

beeboy's response was inadequate. sheeping hardcore does not imply the same things as neutral and passive. and i don't like that you expect it to imply the same things. when you sheep you're still taking a stance. Beeboy, respond to this please.

in addition, you're dodging the first question.
I don't care whether or not Dewy noticed it. I noticed it. Why did you do it in the first place?

[Errantparabola]

Let's dance furby.

VOTE: BBT

What is this?

This was the next post. You didnt shoot NM yet. Why not
Also I'm phoneposting and not home. So don't expect me to be productive for like three hours.
Cheers.

[Errantparabola]

Pedit: okay cool

[Errantparabola]

Excellent. Top lynch targets please, in light of NM's flip.

I want to lynch beeboy today. beeboy wanting to shoot NM only happened after the gamestate shifted so that NM's death was inevitable.
Before that beeboy distanced hard.
That's more likely than a BBT/NM double bus.
Dewy is my second choice for lynch.
I am confident scum is in one of them.

VOTE: Beeboy

Hi Dewy!

Thoughts?

I need to reread this game/ look through NM's ISO.

do tell what you find through your "look through NM's ISO"

Nope, I'm saying you're not acting like town!RC and therefore you must be scum.

Can you imagine if you were town this game? No, I can't either.

Okay Mr. "Meta is not a good scumhunting tool"

[Errantparabola]

People don't seem to buy scumDewy. Let me try and persuade you.

[Errantparabola]

To discuss game?

That doesn't explain why a scum would point it out?
What would it actually accomplish for them since the game already started and it is too late for more pregame time lol

eh, fine, I'll take that explanation. UNVOTE: beeboy

push/interaction with Beeboy was super weird and I originally considered a Dewy/Beeboy scumteam. The awkwardness in Beeboy's "oh every single scumpost has to have scum intent behind it so what's the scumintent in my posting" and Dewy's "oh yeah I buy that *unvote*" suggests scum in those two.

RC feels the need to tunnel Bulb because of a question.

We were supposed understand the mechanics of the game before we confirmed our roles.

what a passive, distant push on Bulb.
admittedly, this is somewhat subverted by Dewy saying she scumreads bulba and a vote.

And my question was in no way a townslip so stop.

It may have not townslip, but it's still a slip to me. Town should know how to win based on the game mechanics.

this ain't good

Dewy's 284 does so little to actually advance gamestate.
Just saying "oh how are things coming along with everyone"

VOTE: RC

Plot twist

If you can post, at least post something helpful.

HMMMMMMM

Vig: BBT
Lynch: Beeboy

Did you catch the reads progression on Dewy's BBT read?
No? THAT'S CAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY

Shame.

Who is scum?

You and I apparently

Is this scum giving up?

Like beeboy, this is after the gamestate made it seem like momentum was high enough so that NM was already going to die no matter what scumpartner did.
And this isn't even a strong push or anything. And before it was distance distance distance.

Overall play is questions that don't do anything.
Answers that don't do anything.
And reads that don't do anything.
If beeboy flips town then dewy needs to die.

[Errantparabola]

@Errant: How do you feel about BBT? You had him at around the middle I think--has that changed at all?

like I said there are better lynch candidates than BBT because there are likelier scenarios than the double bus one.

Hello beeboy. Glad you could make it. Here's what I mean about dodging.

Oh I missed this post sorry. If that was the case Dewy would have stated so she didn't have any good explanation for it which is why I think she is scum.

this quote

is dodging

my question about this

"oh every single scumpost has to have scum intent behind it so what's the scumintent in my posting".

and that is what I mean by dodging.

[Errantparabola]

Ya saying I wanted to shoot NM because it was inevitable is bull I could have easily shifted the lynch onto BBT but since he is my town read I said I was fine killing NM as an exception and he was slowing down to the pace of the game to point where a Dewy or Bulb pewpew would not have been possible which would have lead to the death of BBT.
Why would I bus my buddy when BBT was under so much pressure? Pretty sure throughout this game I am the only one who has defended BBT so you can't justify a comment saying pushing the BBT would have been hard. Quite frankly I could have done it right now and no one would have cared. Keep trying Errant you will get a good read eventually.

right. sure. so you think BBT is town. so from your point of view BBT would have flipped town and then NM would have gotten lynched. and then people would have seen who was pushing for the alternate death target and lynched you. you're trying to sell me on a clearly suboptimal strategy that you would have made.

[Errantparabola]

So I liked Dewy's push on beeboy until this post. I don't understand why something scum-indicative has to have scum motive behind i

Oh I missed this post sorry. If that was the case Dewy would have stated so she didn't have any good explanation for it which is why I think she is scum.

this is your full post answering my question.
and I do not see anything answering my question in later posts.

[Errantparabola]

right. sure. so you think BBT is town. so from your point of view BBT would have flipped town and then NM would have gotten lynched. and then people would have seen who was pushing for the alternate death target and lynched you. you're trying to sell me on a clearly suboptimal strategy that you would have made.

? I have been town reading him all game why would I want to see him get shot. I don't understand your post at all can you reword it?

Here's what I said.
1. Apri was iffy on the NM shot
2. Then Apri and others were close to shooting NM
3. THEN you starting going "NM is scum guys"

Here's what you said.
1. If I were scum, I could shift the lynch onto BBT
2. There was traction for BBT's kill
3. But I didn't shift the lynch because I townread BBT

Here's what I said.
1. If you were scum, it's not a long shot to say that your interactions towards NM is the optimal play that you perceived
2. Because if you shifted the lynch onto BBT as scum, then he would have flipped town and it would be very likely that NM would die anyway
3. As a result suspicion would be on you for arguing against an NM shot and for a BBT shot

RC let me read your iso and I will see if it's convincing enough to sell me on BBT. Otherwise I am not compromising outside of Beeboy and Dewy.

[Errantparabola]

Ugh 2 people are talking to me at once.

You're gonna have to explain your kindascum.

From what I know, 3dice is not confident in his scumplay. That likely suggests that if 3dice is scum, Dewy is town. But since 3dice is likely town, his interactions suggest nothing about Dewy's alignment.

Is this the question I didn't answer I can't find anything else in your ISO?

I don't get your push on me at all.

What you're telling me is that you just happened to forget a question that you've answered before.

So I like the first part of that. But you narrowed the criteria for the push down so that a weak response was all that dewy could give. Why did you do that?

RC. I could say the same thing to you on BBT being scum. I would argue that a Beeboy lynch gives better associatives if a townflip results a la Dewy.
Is a la the correct phrase?
What is the benefit of a hypothetical BBT townflip?

[Errantparabola]

Remember when I was trying to lynch Koggz and you were tunneling on Klingon for being absent for IRL reasons?
Because I sure do!

Okay what does that have to do with my push on beeboy?
are you trying to discredit my scumhunting based on past failures to scumhunt?

There's 1 scum left associatives don't mean anything anymore.[/quote]

I have done a lot of things before.

Are you saying that you're burden of proficiencying my failure to be 100% certain NM is scum when he's producing 0 content?

i actually really don't like this. to clarify, I don't like that BBT is doing this.

[Errantparabola]

i actually really don't like this. to clarify, I don't like that BBT is doing this.

You don't like that RC is putting words in my mouth?

No, I don't like you pushing something that should be nonindicative.

I don't understand what you're saying beeboy.

[Errantparabola]

beeboy are obvious town.

This as well.
And feel better while you're at it, ya?

what are everyone's thoughts on my dewy case?

[Errantparabola]

Although i'm not entirely positive cause i'm phoneposting, i'm pretty sure the "counterwagons" you speak of were formed by beeboy and rc pushing each other and calling for the other's head. Where do you see scum pushing those wagons as an alternative to nm?

[Errantparabola]

Apricity and Dewy what are your reads? Who do you want to lynch today?

[Errantparabola]

Apricity and Dewy what are your reads? Who do you want to lynch today?

Bulba I need you to answer this question too.
I don't like that you're fighting lynches but not pushing anyone.

I'll revisit 3dice and bulba. I don't think I anticipate changing townread on 3dice.

[Errantparabola]

sorry i missed that bulba. i was going back on your iso and now i see your posts about dice.

[Errantparabola]

Hmmm I would compromise for a 3dice lynch.

scum might be in the people that say 3dice is a good lynch because 3dice is clear town.
but i'd much rather vote beeboy than BBT. like the difference is enough so that I'm not shifting my vote unless we need it to achieve a lynch.
also dewy is someone i don't want alive. she's done nothing all game and i anticipate she will continue to do nothing.
demoralized scum maybe.

[Errantparabola]

Hmmm I would compromise for a 3dice lynch.

scum might be in the people that say 3dice is a good lynch because 3dice is clear town.
but i'd much rather vote beeboy than BBT. like the difference is enough so that I'm not shifting my vote unless we need it to achieve a lynch.
also dewy is someone i don't want alive. she's done nothing all game and i anticipate she will continue to do nothing.
demoralized scum maybe.

EP, please you saw my FA call out.
I can read BBT *MORE ACCURATELY* than I can read FA.
He is scum, 100%, 0% doubt now. I was partially policying it earlier but he's slipped way into his scum meta.

Dayvig me tomorrow if I'm wrong. He is the last scum.

RC, I can't claim to have your playstyle figured out. But you can't expect me to think that your confidence in a BBT flip points to town you. You can't expect me to think that you asking apri to dayvig you conditional to a BBT townflip points to town you. I think that your push on beeboy because of NM interactions made sense. I liked that. I just dont see how BBT bussing from page 2 makes sense.

What do you mean by slipped way into scum meta?

And BBT, i'll explain my diceread when i get home but i'm reasonably sure that there's something in my iso.

[Errantparabola]

That dewy catchup post i skimmed and it's terrible.
I'll tell you why when i get home.

[Errantparabola]

BBT could you do me a big favor and point to the posts that summarize your RC case

[Errantparabola]

Saying "i'm perfectly willing to die if you get x lynched" is not a town move. That makes me less happy with 3dice BBT and RC but not by much. It's just not convincing if you're town and it's so easy for scum to say to get towncred.

[Errantparabola]

Todo:
Explain diceread
Explain beeboy and dewy
I'll do this when i decide to stop being lazy

[Errantparabola]

Look, my Friday is committed to XCOM 2 so i won't be playing much. But I would be fine lynching anyone else above 3dice, and anyone but 3dice above BBT.

[Errantparabola]

Hey markee and friends
I'm feeling terribly ill right now and not up to posting
Very sorry

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: dewy

i will explain this vote when I come back from shower
but holy shit dewy needs to die it's fucking mind boggling how no one sees dewy as obvscum

[Errantparabola]

Here's why Dewy is scum

Next, BBT wants NM to be shot, this doesn't line up. This implies busing.

This makes me confident that BBT is town because that might be the worst reason for "bussing" i've ever seen

a)NM knows he'll be shot so he scum-reads his buddy to get town to think his scum-reads are town. If this is true, scum is between BBT and bulba.
b)The scum-reads are town and NM wants to score a free ml for his scum buddy.

"You know, it could be one thing, or it could be the complete opposite. I'm not going to tell you which one is more likely because I want to make it seem like i'm producing content without committing to it."

It gets people to town read him.

in what way does this make it seem like BBT is trying to get NM to produce content?
Like, you're completely misconstruing the content of 802.

Dewy is pushing BBT and also pushing 3dice from the outside looking in. Both of them are/were clear mislynches.

Where is everyone? The day is ending in (expired on 2016-02-10 16:30:00).

bollocks attempt to look towny

RC why did you quickhammer?

the inconsistency is real
"hey we need to get something done guys the day is ending"
"hey RC why did you do something"

lol

and let's look at the NM interactions oh lord

General thoughts:
@Not_Mafia Why are you pushing BBT? What's with the officers thing? Are you trolling with us in 257 and 258?
@BBT Why are you pushing Not_Mafia? I don't see scummy NM's in his eary posts. I just see generic RVS and something about officers.


I don't know how to sort:
...
NM-I don't get the push for BBT.

1. "Hey NM why are you trolling with us get your shit together so we can win this game"
2. "Hey the shit that NM's pulling isn't scummy though so don't push him on that, ok?
3. "But ultimately I'm not going to sort NM at all"

And guess what? That's literally it
Except until the very end when Dewy jumps on the killNM train when it looked like NM was dead for sure
DEWY IS BASICALLY ALL THE SCUMMY THINGS ABOUT BEEBOY (bad early game, NM interactions) + MORE SCUMMY THINGS HOLY SHIT

APRI YOU'RE CONSIDERING BEEBOY + BBT RIGHT
Didn't you say you weren't going to shoot beeboy
so shoot Dewy holy shit

[Errantparabola]

And while you're at it, don't lynch BBT
shoot Dewy and if i turn out to be completely out of my mind and wrong about dewy lynch Beeboy.

[Errantparabola]

1. Give me one reason outside of my attack on you that I'm scum. Oh wait, you can't find any.
2. Yes I followed RC's instructions.
3. Your defense is so mind-bogglingly bad that I'm having a hard time actually processing what you're saying.

That's nice, but I'm not scum, so it doesn't confirm that BBT is town at all. You are not completely wrong here. It was a bad bus.

Okay, look here.
If you want to convince me that you're not scum, which isn't impossible, then you'll have to try better than "YOUR LOGIC IS WRONG BECAUSE I GOT A TOWN ROLE PM" because that's not going to fly with me.

Wrong; I was trying to interpret NM's wifom whether you want to believe it or not.

You know what? I don't want to actually defend what EP is saying about me so I'm just going to say "you can believe it or not" and hope that EP doesn't call me out on the ridiculous shit I just tried to pull.
The above is what I'm going to take this as.

Tell me where I was pushing 3dice "from the outside looking in". Tell me how they "are/were clear mislynches". The only way you know they were clear mislynches is that if you are scum yourself. Are you?

They were clear mislynches because I townread them. I made it pretty clear that those two were/are my top townreads.
And by the way, you were being wishy-washy on 3dice. You were pointing out the "scummy" things he did while sugarcoating it with "towny" things he did so that you didn't have to participate in the 3dice hatetrain but other people who scumread 3dice could look at what you said and be more convinced that 3dice was a good lynch.
Oh, and I struggle to find the words for how bad your "are you scum" is. But I'm going to settle with "bland" and "noncommittal." kind of like your ISO.

You are misrepresenting me whether you realize it or not. The first statement is true, but the second statement is false. Quick-hammering someone is not the way "to do something". There could have been more discussion, but the quick-hammer prevented that. Are you saying that agree with RC's quick-hammer?
lol lol

I'm saying that you pointed out a looming deadline, meaning that you wanted action.
RC gave that to you and you remained unsatisfied. When someone says "hey look we have a deadline" that is easily interpreted to be "i don't want a no lynch to happen." You can't deny that's a reasonable interpretation.

Why should I try to look town? That's for scum, not town. Sorry I was concerned that we had only 19 hours left? Sorry no one was online? Either way, asking people to get on the thread is not alignment indicative. This reasoning is forced.

Oh, and way to contradict yourself.
"We only have 19 hours left!!! No one is online!!! But... somehow we can have more discussion."
keep digging yourself into that hole.

We? Wrong again. I do not have the same win condition whether you want to believe it or not.

This is you pulling the "believe it or not" shit again. Don't just tell me I'm wrong and my "logic is forced." Jesus Christ. Prove something. Anything.

Tell me:If you saw 2 players talking about something off topic, if that alignment indicative? No, unless they are asked multiple times to produce content, but consciously refused to. That was not the case at this point. More on this later.

I'm not saying what you did is illogical. I'm saying there was potential scum intent behind you saying it. It's a puzzle piece that easily fits into a scum painting. But it might also fit into a town painting.

Answer me: How do you sort someone if there's nothing to use? Tell me: did the thing about officials make sense to you?

Same here.

Was it at the very end? Yes, but you are misrepresenting me here. I couldn't sort NM before because I didn't have anything to sort him with. What makes 817 different from 284 is that in the context of 817, multiple players asked for him to actually start posting content, but he consciously refused to do so. (Not the same context as 284) This told me that NM would most likely flip scum.

1. This is, like, super wrong. First of all, antitown does not equal scum. There's a difference, although both need to die. I highly doubt you think that refusing to post content is actually scumindicative.
2. Let's use Dewy-logic here. You knew that NM would most likely flip scum because NM is your partner.
3. And you knew that NM was going to die, whether you liked it or not. So you decided that then was the time that "not posting content" suddenly became indicative so you could jump on the NM hate train to blend in. People told NM to stop dickin' around before you scumread him.

That's nice, but you are wrong again. You are saying that we are both scum, but there is only one scum left.

is... this... really something you're trying to use against me?
Like, go ahead and complain at RC trying to kill both BBT and beeboy too, why don't you?
I'm somewhat flabbergasted at how bad this is.

What in the actual heck. (types and deletes rant) Shoot scum not town. Shoot BBT. He'll most likely flip scum.

your "types and deletes rant" shtick screams "I want to seem like frustrated town but not get caught out on saying anything scummy"
and your "shoot scum not town" is you weakly repeating your same mantra. "I'm town, my Role PM was green, I'm town..."

You want me to think you're town? Go ahead and convince me.

[Errantparabola]

I accept being BoPed here.

By the way, anyone who tries to actually lynch RC if he is wrong about BBT and beeboy based on BoP is scum.
Very scum.

[Errantparabola]

You're dying.

Tell me that when you aren't the only supporter of that cause.

Will post in the evening but uh... No.
I definitely want you/dewy dead.

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: RC

VOTE: Beeboy

I will make a post in a frw hours. Im not at home and im phoneposting.

[Errantparabola]

I am also fine being the first to die, as long as Apric doesn't let RC live and promises to not let EP and RC sweet talk her out of taking the shot.

Really? You're fine being the first to die? Then go ahead and self-vote. Let your actions corroborate your words.

[Errantparabola]

If you let RC get away with this because "no town would try to kill himself like that" or something similar you are wrong because scum would easily pull the same gambit twice since the last time he tried to lynch himself he got mad town reads.

This isnt a bad point. But there are some tonal differences that i picked up on that suggest RC is town. Admittedly that was from chatmafia. The normal town and scumtells that I use dont really work on RC but he is town.

Beeboy, lynch Dewy today? I'm a lot more comfortable with a Dewy death than a you death.
Apri, thoughts on Dewy?
Bulba?

[Errantparabola]

I think very few people other than RC would offer to self-vote as soloscum.
that's why i would rather dewy.

[Errantparabola]

I said other than RC.
I am fully aware that RC is capable of gambiting with his life. He is town anyway.
My statement applies to you dude.
Dewy were you the person that won as scum as a newbie? I'm going to find that game and see how you won it.
Because if it's by somehow magically convincing other people that you're town despite doing pretty clear similar scum things, I know where my deathtunnel will be.
And i'll respond to what you said recently when i get home too. In the meantime, please give me a list of people you think might be scum or point to where you did this. I know you think im scum based on my push on you, so other than that.

[Errantparabola]

Honestly though EP as scum I would make that exact self vote I just because I know it would get me town read with the remains of this player base.

I know this possibility. Thats why my vote still on you. Your sacrificial play doesnt absolve you of my scumread on you. But it does make me a lot more comfortable with other scumread aka dewy. That's why i want to see if a dewy lynch is possible

[Errantparabola]

Thanks dewy. Reading now.

[Errantparabola]

I cant fucking do this.
I just realized the mentality i was going into that game was "since dewy is scum lets look for things that are similar to dewy's play here" which is basically what made me look like a fool in steven universe.

And that fucking quickhammer... Lol. Ill bet that people were thinking to themselves "there's no way that scum newb would be ballsy enough to pull that off."

[Errantparabola]

You seem to commit a lot more in that game.
that's kind of a major reason im scumreading you- your posts dripping with lack of commitment.
On the other hand, are you aware that your play is different and that's why you were so confident when you linked me to your game?
Just how much are you goddamn next leveling me?

[Errantparabola]

The way i see it, you saw that the quickhammer, although it was unintentional, gave you an opportunity to coast to the endgame. You knew that you had the cred to win the game solo. So you bussed? Which is... Like the opposite of what you did with nm.

Granted you werent in the same position in this game, but still. You are clearly not a distancing person as scum.

I was not expecting this game to go like this at all.
You're a real case, dewy.

[Errantparabola]

Just read the whole game.
I rarely consider meta, but im willing to do it here and decide that you're maybe not scum.

1. You are clearly unafraid of your scumpartners.
2. You are not afraid of commiting to your reads.
3. This might be why RC is not willing to consider you as scum?

On the other hand you felt disconnected from the game state which isn't out of the question for newbtown either. But im getting the same vibes here.

Hold on i'm going to read a towngame if you have one.

[Errantparabola]

And i'll respond to what you said recently when i get home too. In the meantime, please give me a list of people you think might be scum or point to where you did this. I know you think im scum based on my push on you, so other than that.

Still waiting on this

[Errantparabola]

Looks like that's an ongoing game. Still will read it.
Ok rc lol

[Errantparabola]

What the fuck dewy? Your towngame is completely different from this game too?
And im not even close to townreading you, friend.
Read the words. Maybe not scum.

[Errantparabola]

I'm not willing to consider Dewy as scum because I'm long past caring about anything besides killing Beeboy.

If I could vote myself 2 more times I would have done it by now.

This is scumposting. We get the point you want to die.

Dewy your towngame and scumgame are more similar to each other than they are to this one.
That is my impression.

It was stupid to meta you. You're new, of course your playstyle is going to change game to game. I am the same way.

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: Beeboy

@Bulba

That was a really bad hammer. What was you thinking?
VOTE: Bulba

how was it a bad hammer
like, in any way

[Errantparabola]

Sorry im at a competition and all my free time for the past two days had been dedicated to that.
Will talk later.

[Errantparabola]

You know what's also sad? I don't see a progression of reads from you. You literally went from saying that I'm town to saying that I'm scum without justification. Saying that I am the only person you want dead is a lie because you wanted both bbt and bee dead. That concerns me.

Saying this is a clear attempt to frame RC.
RC made it pretty clear that he was betting the game on BBT and beeboy, and not thinking about other people as scum.
Bulba, I'd like reads from you.

[Errantparabola]

You know what's also sad? I don't see a progression of reads from you. You literally went from saying that I'm town to saying that I'm scum without justification. Saying that I am the only person you want dead is a lie because you wanted both bbt and bee dead. That concerns me.

Saying this is a clear attempt to frame RC.

I'm not framing RC. I'm saying that I don't like the

way

he scumread me.

Considering the "way he scumread you" isn't scummy at all...

Its errant or dew here.

from your point of view, that's only saying RC is town. which one do you think is more likely to flip scum?

[Errantparabola]

1. dewy if you're town then of course scum is on your wagon. Again you continue with the trend of saying things without saying anything at all.
2. And saying that either me or dewy is scum is hardly saying anything either, bulba.
3. It's not like im opportunistically jumping on your wagon dewy. You have no case against how your readwagon formed considering you've been scummin it up the whole game.

[Errantparabola]

Ill bet beeboy is rolling in his grave right now considering rc isnt getting shot lol
Sorey beeboy that's just how it is

[Errantparabola]

There was this moment in time when i considered towndewy
but then i realized it makes no sense to read someone who's this new at the game based on playstyle. I've played 10 games give or take a little and my playstyle still changes pretty drastically between games.
so yeh, dewy is scum.
i've made that pretty clear.
and rc is town. also pretty clear from me.
meaning this game solved fmpov, i'm just waiting for you.

[Errantparabola]

bulba, mainly by poe.
i would say i have some pretty good reasons to townread RC.
bulba hasn't done anything redeeming enough for me to seriously consider my options there.
but! i might have to go over all the isos, but i'd rather wait until after apri shoots. no reason to read the iso of a dead man walking.

[Errantparabola]

Ranger
Regardless of your alignment
Thank you for being awesome.

Now im going to towncase RC in an hour because you are wrong.

[Errantparabola]

I get strong deja vu.

And I mean: STRONG deja vu. This, in regards to RC.

RC is a good scum player and I'm sure he has an easy time replicating his town meta as scum.
I am not surprised that his scum meta and town meta are two leaves on the same branch
In my opinion an RC kill loses us the game

I'd also like to point out: when there was an L-1 wagon on RadiantCowbells (and yes, that existed at one point), Not_Mafia did not hammer...in spite of posting in-thread.

this isn't an untrue fact
but how do you know NM has a propensity towards hammering town as scum
because that knowledge is the only thing that would make me accept this as a partner interaction between NM and RC

They are, quite literally, identical word for word

I'm going to go ahead and say that RC is not stupid enough to use the same strategies as scum if he doesn't use them as town.
And I've played with town RC.
Ranger have you played with town RC?
If not, how acquainted are you with RC's town meta?

[Errantparabola]

no
there's no way that you just come in and have this perfectly arcing rainbow trajectory straight into the pot of gold labeled "RC is scum"

fine you're more familiar with RC town
then it makes no sense that you think his deathtunnel is scum
because RC deathtunnels as town too
RC FAKES GUILTIES on people as town

and i guess i didn't make clear with the whole replicating meta thing.
i mean that people that play a tight scumgame usually don't have any major deviations between their town and scum game.
what you're doing is you're looking at a similarity between this game and a scumgame of RCs and saying
"RC would never do this as town!"

I will reread D1 because that is the only point in your argument that I believe has some legitimacy to it
Have you conclusions from your reading of the game

[Errantparabola]

apricity, anything from your reread?
ranger, anything from your conclusion of your read?
dewy, anything?

[Errantparabola]

I have no doubt that you are town right now but honestly that post was so god awful

[Errantparabola]

apri please deadline and shit
have you done your reread

[Errantparabola]

ranger i slightly dislike you pointed out the fact that you fake townslip as scum
Apri care to share those reasons or you just want to shoot? Considering the amount of time we have left im fine with either

[Errantparabola]

So, it's a genuine townslip on my part.

Doesn't mean much, since I have a recorded history of faking townslips as scum, but in this case it was sincerely a mistake on my part.

Guh
Ranger I was positive you were just wrong town when you made this post
Just read this post

1. "I genuinely townslipped"
2. "But don't take it as genuine cause I fake townslip as scum"
3. "See look at how town I am for giving you that information"

[Errantparabola]

no never mind
ranger is town because of dewy still being in this game
it's just the tone of the posts that's bothering me and it's doesn't stray from the normal tone of your posts

[Errantparabola]

I don't like how bulba didn't contribute much and how he flaked. I don't like Ranger's scum case on RC because it is mostly meta based.

non indicative and non indicative.
considering I think that Ranger is town and RC is hardtown, I'll believe you're town when Marquis tells it to my face.

[Errantparabola]

and she replace in and decides to fly in with a terrible, unsupported scumread on me?

you think this suggests ranger town?

[Errantparabola]

Make a town case on Ranger. Look, I'm dead, there's no reason for me to lie about my alignment.

1. it's more that I've seen almost nothing scummy (and nothing scummy enough to form a scum painting by itself) from Ranger
2. or for that matter nothing scummy outside of what i wrote off as playstyle from bulba
3. and that i've seen a lot of scummy things from you
4. and that I think that it's probably more likely that you're lying about your alignment for the laughs.

How did Ranger transition onto Dewy?

[Errantparabola]

Oh and ranger a question for you.
You've played lots of games with RC right?
Have you seriously never seen a game with townRC where his play matches the play in this game?

[Errantparabola]

If dewy flips town that means I'm so fundamentally bad at scumhunting that I'm probably just going to write off any correct scumread of mine as fucking luck

RC, so ranger is basing her perception of town you off of one game?

[Errantparabola]

shrug
it's not like i've played 35 games with you

[Errantparabola]

i've played like... 2.

[Errantparabola]

^ Specifically post 1615. "Yes, I know it's long. It'll be tedious to read. Isoing RC is never easy. But trust me..."

yeah this is one of Ranger's tonal things

[Errantparabola]

Well I can tell you that it's definitely not a scummy way to read someone.

[Errantparabola]

Well I can tell you that it's definitely not a scummy way to read someone.

But RC knows his meta and can replicate it or manipulate it, in which case a meta read isn't that reliable -.-

I GET THAT
I've said that Ranger's case on RC sucks
But the fact that Ranger is using meta on RC doesn't really mean anything as to Ranger's alignment

[Errantparabola]

Time to post comprehensive reads on Ranger, Bulba and RC.
I wouldn't trust them.
I expect everyone to be here often. deadline.

[Errantparabola]

"I wouldn't trust my reads if I were you."

[Errantparabola]

which all amounts to 'hey maybe you should just sheep ranger on RC'

if Ranger tied me up and whipped me with a spatula I still probably wouldn't vote for you.

[Errantparabola]

Ranger's ISO

Things I liked

Scumhunting comes from a town perspective. This is pretty major.

Things I disliked

"Mixed signals" does not and should not equal "null"
"Jumping to a deathtunnel after the flip of RC's partner" doesn't make sense. What happens when the subject of that deathtunnel dies? Jump to another deathtunnel? If RC were scum that wouldn't fly with town.
The townslip.

Things I am ambivalent towards

Tone.
Using meta on RC.
Claims that she still has her protection left in 1624 and then later speaks of it as if it were the first time she claimed in 1649
Setting up for Dewy "if I am wrong about RC" (now I see what you kinda mean RC)
Again "doesn't object to a Dewy shot"

I am ambivalent towards the Dewy setup because that's how Ranger plays. Ranger will gladly compromise on a lesser scumread dying or even a nullread dying if it's 1) ultimately helpful for town in the long run (which ranger did percieve it to be) and 2) is easier to achieve (which was obvious)

[Errantparabola]

I'm going to go eat breakfast and do some other shit. apri i swear to god if you just straight up left because the thread locked...

[Errantparabola]

I'm checking this game on my phone while making breakfast because that's my life.
thoughts on my thoughts on ranger, apricity?

[Errantparabola]

Feels like he realizes that Ranger siding is an easy win because of her tunnel on me and is just siding with her because of that.
His position 180, the 'probably' in his spatula beating comment, exaggerated 'OMG I HATE MYSELF IF MISLYNCH' all adds up to it.
I wouldn't advise a vote from Apri for at least a day but this is probably the scum.

1. Want to create motive out of nothing? I can do that too. Your push on me is an attempt to get me to commit to my townread on you to escape scrutiny when you know full well that's not how people should play in fucking lylo.
2. Baseless accusation right? Not any more baseless than yours.
3. My position 180 is a hallucination on your part. I was not even considering voting you until this shamelessly bad post.
4. You also know full well that the "exaggeration" is exactly how I played in SU prequel. NAI.
5. "Oh EP thinks i'm town? White knight." "Oh EP thinks I'm scum? Opportunist." That's the kind of logic that sets up for easy progression into a scumread no matter what the future holds. You're better than this.

Things I disliked

"Mixed signals" does not and should not equal "null"
"Jumping to a deathtunnel after the flip of RC's partner" doesn't make sense. What happens when the subject of that deathtunnel dies? Jump to another deathtunnel? If RC were scum that wouldn't fly with town.
The townslip.

I'm going to elaborate on these.

1. Ranger wants to avoid committing on a Dewy read despite things that potentially point to Dewy scum.
2. Ranger wants to create motive that points to Scum RC out of nothing which is literally what RC is doing right now.
3. I've already talked about the townslip and I wrote it off because I was certain the game would have ended by now. Basically what Ranger did was make us entertain the idea of her genuine townslipping without wanting to make it seem like she wanted to make us think that she was genuine townslipping. whatever.

[Errantparabola]

at this point i'm considering just looking at who was townier early game and voting the other because both lategames haven't exactly been peachy.
basically what that means is i've know where my vote's gonna be.
I'm going to wait for Ranger to show up in this thread which will probably be this evening.

[Errantparabola]

at this point i'm considering just looking at who was townier early game and voting the other because both lategames haven't exactly been peachy.
basically what that means is i've know where my vote's gonna be.
I'm going to wait for Ranger to show up in this thread which will probably be this evening.

Im making it pretty clear here that i intend to vote for ranger despite your post being incredibly bad and you refusing to see it as such.

[Errantparabola]

since you refuse to engage in line by line (which is fine) i'll sum up your read.
RC is voting me because he holds me to the same standard of reads-confidence that he and Ranger have. That's simply ludicrous.

[Errantparabola]

she prioritized a whole bunch of games above this one.
wow.

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: Ranger
Apri don't vote anywhere please.

[Errantparabola]

He singlehandedly forced the Not_Mafia laser through. That was NOT scum double-bussing, which in this setup would be suicidal, and the thoughts that he would have been were folly. His tone was arrogant, but in a way conveying strength and confidence that he should never be lynched because he was clearly town in his eyes. He was certain he had the game locked down. He raised many, MANY valid points. This, just off the top of my head from memory. If you had asked earlier, the list would have been even longer.

this isn't really good townreading material
certainty to the point of arrogance is easily faked
but it's really not useful to argue over the alignment of someone who is dead.

[Errantparabola]

I've laid out why. He pushed Not_Mafia as scum, but only strategically. In opportune moments, he pursued other players when convenient. At a key stage in the game, Not_Mafia had the chance to hammer Radiant before Apricity could get off a shot and night actions be coordinated, yet he did not.

Meta is what I'm using to point out RC's actions aren't town. Not what I'm using to say RC's actions are scum.

1. I think NM interactions aren't going to give us much in the way of determining someone's alignment this game. Look at dewy and beeboy.
2. And RC doesn't "bus strategically." RC busses 100% if he believes the tradeoff to be worth it. RC busses with the expectation that his scumpartner will die, not with the expectation that he will gain a strategic advantage via distancing.
3. I remember NM being seriously disconnected with the game. I doubt that he would have pounced on that opportunity to hammer townRC.

[Errantparabola]

I didn't?

I pointed out that it was a townslip.

In the interest of full-disclosure, I mentioned that it might not mean as much as it should because I have faked a townslip as scum. (The faked townslip in the link was saying scum could coordinate in their PT to shoot when by the setup, scum had no method of talking at any point in the game. It got noticed by the dead town, but was completely glossed over by the living.)

I am entertaining the possibility of this being what you wanted us to think.
You wanted us to think that "oh, Ranger townslipped but look at her, she doesn't even want the towncred for the slip. She even provided evidence against it being legitimate. That's pretty good and leads me to believe that yes, it was indeed a legitimate townslip."

Here's the thing.
You're a capable player.
I have no doubt that you, as potential scum, would get acquainted with the game state and THEN read "from the top" and give a progression of your reads, so that we think that you are reading organically from the top but you've actually already understood the nature of the game state as it is in the present.
This is all speculation, but it's circumstantially corroborated by
1. Your weak BBT townread (in which you say "oh, BBT is going to die soon and he's going to flip town, I just know it")
2. Your townslip
3. Your trajectory of your RC read.

[Errantparabola]

Feels like he realizes that Ranger siding is an easy win because of her tunnel on me and is just siding with her because of that.
His position 180, the 'probably' in his spatula beating comment, exaggerated 'OMG I HATE MYSELF IF MISLYNCH' all adds up to it.
I wouldn't advise a vote from Apri for at least a day but this is probably the scum.

Still think Bulba was town, still don't like how EP has started the day.

VOTE: EP

oh my god
oh my fucking god
I cannot say that 1750 is logically incorrect
like yeah RC's town and scum play are two leaves on the same branch. RC has no problem playing the role of the good town. And that's why RC doesn't get lynched often
but 1750 is just fucking dripping with "oh ranger you have to believe me I totally understand you I'm your friend really"

[Errantparabola]

I never finished my readthrough of the game. How much of the above did RC at one point do, after the mislynch?

None.
Literally, you are like, incredibly wrong about this. And that makes me all the more confident that your RC read is fake.

[Errantparabola]

RC gave a list of scum and asked to be BOPed.
Beeboy agreed to this.
It never happened because of Apri not shooting and the momentum never being there.

[Errantparabola]

doesn't matter ranger. didn't factor at all into my read or vote on you.
thanks for clarifying though.

[Errantparabola]

everyone keeps talking about the "super towncred" that a hypothetical busser gets from NM's lynch
but I don't see it
when you push someone that went relatively unpressured and they flip scum, sure, towncred through the roof.
at the time of NM's death, ~5 people were calling for it. not a single one of them got magical towncred. which makes complete sense because there's no towncred to be had when you're just one voice in the crowd.

[Errantparabola]

I have seven completed scum games.

Not once have I displayed this trait.
To the contrary, I have fallen behind as scum twice, and both times ended up in a disadvantageous position leading directly to my lynch as a consequence.

i will admit i based your capability as a player on your town play
and i applied that (it seems incorrectly) to your scum play

talk to me about how you're wrong about your prediction for RC's actions after the deathtunnel failed.

My trajectory on RC has been,
"Oh, looks like scum."
"Yeah, that's...pretty strongly scum."
"Definitely scum."
"ARG I NEEDED TO BE IN THE GAME SOONER BECAUSE MOTHER OF GOD RC WAS OBVIOUSLY SCUM AND HE NEEDS TO DIE."

that's my point.

To the contrary! I could tell beeboy was town even without the town flip, though from the interactions I understood why beeboy was dead. I also thought the only bad thing about Dewy was the Not_Mafia defense. (That may be a slight exaggeration, but it's fairly close.)

So the interactions are not useless. Maybe they are to you, but they're not to me.

Literally everything is telling me it's RC.

right, so the interactions led to beeboy's death and was a bad thing for dewy.
both of them were town.

i'll respond to rest later. my stomach calls for food.

[Errantparabola]

Errant

is

peddling both sides right now pretty hard.
Insisting I'm scum, but at the same time also insisting RC's scum.

not once have i come close to EVEN COMING CLOSE to wanting RC dead.

[Errantparabola]

since you refuse to engage in line by line (which is fine) i'll sum up your read.
RC is voting me because he holds me to the same standard of reads-confidence that he and Ranger have. That's simply ludicrous.

[Errantparabola]

Rc's voted
Ive made it pretty blindingly clear that i think that both of you are scummy to some degree.
That being said, i think that not only was bulba scummier than early game rc, but you are scummier than late game rc.
And even if your accusations were correct, i fail to understand why "peddling both sides" is a bad thing. Are you suggesting that the best thing to do in lylo is to pick a side and refuse to consider the other side? Because in my experience, that's what loses games.

[Errantparabola]

And even if your accusations were correct, i fail to understand why "peddling both sides" is a bad thing. Are you suggesting that the best thing to do in lylo is to pick a side and refuse to consider the other side?

Not exactly, but kind-of, yeah. You either form a strong opinion and follow through, or you don't form a strong opinion and then actively try to fix having a lack of opinion until you do.

Your approach is instead attacking both sides equally. You

claim

you're attacking me harder, but I don't see it that way; I see equal amounts of mud slung at both me and RC from you. And that's basically the one and only thing giving me doubt about RC. The equal amounts, lack of hard commitment, is more typical of your scum game.

I'm going to break this down for you.

1. What's the motive of scum attacking both sides equally? To seem impartial and to set up progressions for both votes.
2. If I wanted to convince you of being impartial, then why would I be actively attempting to convince you otherwise?
3. If I wanted to set up progressions for both votes, then why would I be voting you right now?
4. There is no consistency between my actions and your accusations and that makes me pretty confident that you're scum.
5. Secondly, what you're trying to do is openly suggest that I am at fault for the fact that I believe that both people are acting some degree of scummy. That's ludicrous.
6. Ranger I want to give you a scenario. Say you're town in a 4 way LYLO like this one, and the other two unconfirmed you both perceive as scummy, one more than the other. If the person that you perceive as less scummy acts in a way that suggests that they might be scum, do you just STOW AWAY that belief without telling anyone else because you don't want to "play both sides?"
7. Hell no.

[Errantparabola]

it's that this is not how I would approach the game as scum.
as scum I favour wallposting and arguing because i'm damn good at selling garbage cases and taking a few slight errors all the way to the bank
but I see the limitations of that when I'm actually town and play a lot quieter.

I know full well that my scum game is virtually indistinguishable from my town game

i'm physically and emotionally exhausted right now.
this gave me a bit of a chuckle.
i'll try and continue to go line by line with you ranger because i enjoy it.

[Errantparabola]

Give me about an hour to get home and i'll start my catchup.

59 minutes later, Errant

posted

a post. Not started, posted.

Are you insinuating that I lied about real life circumstances to gain an advantage ingame?
That actually stings a bit.

[Errantparabola]

And? You don't see the evolution of certainty?

I see it. it's carefully constructed.

Why not? It does no harm to have your vote on. You can switch votes without needing to unvote. In the mean time, it also serves to...be 'proof' that you are not attacking both sides. (This is something you and RC have both done: "Ranger, I'm voting Errant, I'm not setting both of you up"; "Ranger, I'm voting you, how is that setting you both up?")

conceded.

In that situation, what I would be doing is not voting either and openly reading.

you're dodging the meat and potatoes of this question. say you think the other person is scummier, right? do you ignore the scummy things that the other person does because you don't want to be seen as "slinging mud at both sides?"

Yes, I am. This is as town as my town game gets. Last time you and I were in a situation like this, I even caught you for not realizing I was town. In contrast, RC has admitted his play this game is indistinguishable from his actions if he were scum. So I have every right to suggest you are at fault here. Apricity gets excused, for not having experience with me, same as in that game how AlwaysInnocent got excused. You lacked the excuse then, you still lack it now. This is where the doubt comes from.

In short? It's a player-based burden of proficiency: when interacting with me, you should know better. Yet here you are.

You are continuing to suggest that my reasons for scumreading you are based on meta that is null, and as a result inexcusable based on my extended experience with you. This is false. show me a shred of corroborating evidence.

Frankly, the game would be easier if Errant were scum. Errant's antagonizing me. You're going after Errant, so if you were town, then all I'd have to do is OMGUS. With regards to Errant, OMGUS is potentially an actually-valid tell regarding Errant's patterns with me. But I don't feel it. I don't see it as actually being true.

here's what i read from this. "Look if I were scum, would I take the slow route or would I jump on the dude who's getting attacked by the other person? It makes no sense for me to take the slow route as scum, therefore I am not scum."
and you're disguising it as some offhand statement.

Every piece of meta you've used has said, "RC's null, not scum". What makes him town? Every piece of defense you've used boils down to, "RC's just not scum" without actually giving me why. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony given my reputation, but that's me and this is YOU.)

I don't understand. If you're scum, and RC's null, doesn't that make him town?

comes to you, I desperately need to see this, more even than I do from him, because it is some serious dissonance from what I've seen from you: you've seen me as town many times. You know this is my town play. You've seen my performance as scum. Even if that was not a standard scum game of mine, it was still nothing like my play this game. So where does that read come from?

1. You're wrong on RC's actions post BBT death, despite claiming to be intimately acquainted with RC's play. You're creating a scum motive for RC out of nothing.
2. Your trajectory towards RC being scum is incredibly contrived. To take your words, you're pulling the "no u" argument by suggesting that my own catchup was planned out, except that none of my own actions in game reflect that. Unlike your actions.
3. Townslip. I've gone over this.
4. In addition to your RC case being contrived, it's also flawed. Evidence that your scumcase is faked is that you claim to be so intimately aquainted with RC's meta and yet it's such a logically bad case.
5. Say you're town. Would town you really be convinced by the shit that's RC is pulling right now? I say no.

[Errantparabola]

You're claiming that you townread me and scumread her and yet you're talking to Ranger and not me.

why?

because you're not producing content that I deem reply worthy.
UNVOTE:

[Errantparabola]

Are you insinuating that I lied about real life circumstances to gain an advantage ingame?

No, I'm insinuating that you

didn't

, and that the

exact

time of one hour indicates you had already done work on the game...which is the scum profile you were trying to project onto me.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but it doesn't matter right now.
If it matters to you, the timestamp on that post is 2:45. School for me ends at 3. It takes 15 minutes for me to drive home.
I probably started catching up when I got home.
I can't believe I'm arguing about such a trivial thing.

[Errantparabola]

*shrug*
what I'm doing here is way more of a towntell than shoving walls down your face.

just because it's a towntell doesn't mean I should reply to it.

i will give you credit, your opinion that interacting with scumreads doesn't matter as much as interacting with townreads is consistent with your behavior right now.

[Errantparabola]

it's that this is not how I would approach the game as scum.
as scum I favour wallposting and arguing because i'm damn good at selling garbage cases and taking a few slight errors all the way to the bank
but I see the limitations of that when I'm actually town and play a lot quieter.

I know full well that my scum game is virtually indistinguishable from my town game

RC question for you.
You recognize that there is this difference between your scum and town play
So as scum, why wouldn't you emulate what you described as your town play?

[Errantparabola]

His ridiculously strong townread on me that mysteriously disappeared was also pretty unsupported.

he's generally attacking me more than Ranger

contradiction

He's been saying that he thinks I'm town and Ranger is scum but he's been trying to get Ranger to vote me, which doesn't jive at all.

where have I been trying to do this

I was of the impression that EP still greatly townreads you and as a consequence scumreads Ranger. When did that change?

it changed when RC started scumming it up.
like I said, one of Ranger and RC is town. one of them noticed that I was "playing both sides" because I noticed that both people were doing things that I believed to be scummy and I decided to point them out. Instead of, you know, ignore them and hurt town. And the other is jumping on that opportunity to get me killed.

while declaring me a townread.

this is just a blatant lie.
if i had to evaluate both of Ranger's and RC's recent plays, they would both be scummy to some degree. I said earlier that my vote on Ranger was founded on the belief that RC had early play that I believed came from town. I unvoted because the townread I had on RC could have possibly been coming from scum, knowing RC's capabilities of being universally townread quickly (a possibility that I refused to consider until RC's abysmal late game play).

Let me make this 100% clear.
I don't give a shit if anyone here thinks i'm scummy because I'm "playing both sides." scum is guaranteed to be attacking me right now because of it.
I'm not going to just ignore the fact that two people are acting some degrees of terrible because I don't want to be seen as doing such.

[Errantparabola]

I'd like to actually talk to EP but I'm not sure if he'll be on.

talk with me baby

[Errantparabola]

I used my protection

[Errantparabola]

this is just a blatant lie.
if i had to evaluate both of Ranger's and RC's recent plays, they would both be scummy to some degree. I said earlier that my vote on Ranger was founded on the belief that RC had early play that I believed came from town. I unvoted because the townread I had on RC could have possibly been coming from scum, knowing RC's capabilities of being universally townread quickly (a possibility that I refused to consider until RC's abysmal late game play).

you've said this whole game that you've thought I'm town.
I'm town. now all of a sudden ranger's scumreading me and your vote changes.
what gives?

want me to give you a timeline?

Ranger scumreads you
I say that's bullshit
Dewy gets shot
I am still townreading you at this point
You do some seriously questionable things that I have pointed out multiple times.
I am no longer townreading you

[Errantparabola]

And, curse him forever, right now as much as I've painted him as scum, I don't actually think he's scum so I don't want to.

this is, by the way, because ranger's "case" on RC is terrible.

[Errantparabola]

okay never mind. that recent post makes me convinced that ranger's scum. never mind. that's such a travesty. ignore everything bad i've said about RC.

[Errantparabola]

-My instincts are telling me to pursue Errantparabola.

this is false. your instincts told you that "arguing with me was a TvT" and then without any other additional evidence, you decided to 180 that read.

For a start, while RC has self-admitted he is playing to his scum meta (yet insists he is town anyway)

not even close to a towntell for RC.

Errantparabola has seen my scum game, and it is nothing like here. Errantparabola has many games with me as town, and should know this is exactly like those games.

evidence.
oh wait, there is none.

When I pointed this out, Errantparabola brushed it off, effectively ignoring key evidence.

that you never presented.

It's a small sample size, yes, but it's enough circumstantial evidence to suggest Errant is scum again.

"this evidence is unreliable but it's good enough for me!"

And with Errant's early posting resembling the very mold Errant tried to project as being MY scumplay ("read the game, get situated, and THEN post after already being familiar with the game state"), I'm willing to trust that instinct.

unlike you, I actually have corroborating evidence that I have presented that shows that you may have done as such.

I struggle to find a single correct thing about that last post.

VOTE: Ranger

[Errantparabola]

see, here's the thing.
I'm slinging mud at both sides because both sides have legitimate scummy thing about them.
Ranger is slinging mud at both sides and not one, but BOTH CASES ARE COMPLETELY TERRIBLE

[Errantparabola]

UNVOTE:
yeah i'm not letting that happen.

[Errantparabola]

scumRC is most certainly ballsy enough to ask for that.
I don't care that I'm 90% sure it's Ranger.
if Apri has even an inkling that RC is not town then it's by far the wrongest play.

[Errantparabola]

I am almost positive that you are trustworthy enough not to lie about your personality to win a game but I don't see what's preventing you from "doing your thing" as it is.
Why would "doing your thing" make you subject to getting scumread?

[Errantparabola]

I'm considering it.
If we had to lynch someone right now or we lost, then my vote would be on Ranger in a heartbeat. Basically I'm willing to bet the game on Ranger being scum if there's no alternative.
Basically you have to prove that there's no alternative, RC.
I'm not betting the game on you being town otherwise.

[Errantparabola]

ignore everything bad i've said about RC.

this is basically where i'm at regarding you RC. so there isn't really that much difference between post you being confirmed and right now.

And Ranger isn't even here.
unless she is. idk.

This is the most stressful game I've ever played, on any site or IRL >.<

i think i'm going to second that.

[Errantparabola]

Convince Apri first and I'll go along with it.

[Errantparabola]

well, apri is conf town... but you're right.
I'm putting my trust in you.

VOTE: EP

[Errantparabola]

UNVOTE:
do your thing.

[Errantparabola]

k

[Errantparabola]

vote isn't on anyone

[Errantparabola]

i'm pretty sure that you're hiding something.

[Errantparabola]

having a hard time believing that's the reason for your 180.
i'm also still kind of in shock that you didn't actually have a good reason for that shit you just pulled.

[Errantparabola]

all of you are going to be onsite until deadline, right?

[Errantparabola]

Nothing reply worthy really.
Pretty sure most questions would be answered by my iso.
Im putting my schoolwork off as well.

[Errantparabola]

I'm confirmed sweetheart :\

yeah, this.

[Errantparabola]

could you link?
or are you talking about Ranger?

[Errantparabola]

hold on, I'm going to go eat dinner really quick.

[Errantparabola]

But at first glance im having trouble as to how that suggests bulba was town in any way.

[Errantparabola]

Why would he as scum insist that it wasn't a townslip? More than one person was putting it off as a townslip.

I wonder if because RC said it was faked, he wanted to do damage control and deny the fact that he was trying to "fake townslip." Actually, I don't even think it was fake. I think bulba looked at the mechanics of the bunkers and raised a legitimate question that he didn't know the answer to. no way did it suggest his alignment.

[Errantparabola]

i think he revoted again later? Not sure the timeline of the links you sent apri
i'm making food but i'm playing mafia at the same time like a barbarian.

[Errantparabola]

i see it now apri.
personally i don't see it as really indicative either way

[Errantparabola]

apri, where are your thoughts right now?

[Errantparabola]

Let's go with Ranger and just finish this. If we're wrong, I am very sorry. Props to whoever wins though. It's been a good game, even if I wanted to tear my hair out at times. Although if RC is scum I'll feel like jumping off a bridge. You guys go first. I'll hammer.

pretty much agree with all of this

VOTE: ranger

[Errantparabola]

so that makes me fucking pissed if he is because he did fuck all in 192.

is that the game where i was traitor?
yeah I'll take the blame for the loss there.

[Errantparabola]

you agree that if you're capable of this level of play and just fucking lurksacked while the last goon got lynched I get to hate you?

meh, i think it just means i'm more confident with my posting as town. which is a switch from my play when i first played, i think.

pedit- pretty sure ranger's vote is on me, apri.

[Errantparabola]

What happened there?

basically firebringer, the JK, targeted Golden Robster and there was no kill.
he wanted to claim last because he "thought he had a guilty result."

I, being stupid, claimed VT (cause that's what I always did as scum prior to midsummer night's dream where i hydraed with hiplop) and just prayed that people would think that Golden Robster was protected, not roleblocked. I did nothing to convince town of this, just played super passively because I suck and wasn't prioritizing the game.

[Errantparabola]

no RC
because I don't think that i'm capable of the level of scum play that it would take to win if i were scum?

[Errantparabola]

if? then yes, i understand.

[Errantparabola]

you keep suggesting that i can win on as scum in a scenario like this and as a result conditional on me being scum you will hate me.
and that's fine, but i'm saying that what you're saying is pointless.

[Errantparabola]

because I don't think that i'm capable of the level of scum play that it would take to win if i were scum?

[Errantparabola]

in the flesh.

[Errantparabola]

certain that RC is not the type of person to lie about his personality to win a game.

[Errantparabola]

you haven't voted me yet. so no. but a no lynch loses the game anyway.

[Errantparabola]

since Ranger is scum and you've used your protection, my death and a no lynch leads to the same outcome.

[Errantparabola]

anyone who wants my thoughts, go for it, they're in the scum pt.
the more people that read it, the happier i'll be.

almost all of my reads were genuine. i was faking nothing when i said that i thought both Ranger and RC were scummy near the end but RC was hard town for the whole game (so RC you did a fine job with towning it up.)

if anyone has questions for me, i'm just going to point you to the scum pt.

thanks for the game marquis, and all of you who played. at one point i was considering for it maybe to be my last.

[Errantparabola]

Apri you played a tight game, especially near the end.
Town deserved this win through and through and the majority of that win is because of you.
RC I wouldn't sell yourself short either, if you hadn't towned it up then it's very possible that the BoP would have caused Apri to shoot you, and then a Dewy lynch and resulting scum win would have been very possible.