Micro 648: Mystery Box Mafia - 't is gedaan!

[Expedience]

Oh, this started.

VOTE: RyanK

[Expedience]

Oh, this started.

VOTE: RyanK

You misspelled Flames.

It was faster to type.

I think House is town because he's so eager.

[Expedience]

Guys, the next person who makes an RVS post or any post with deemed sarcastic intent I will

FoS

seriously because they're trying to disrupt my vibes.

RVS is a cancer, see I don't want to respond to House with the expected glib banter. I'm breaking all the walls and there is no turning back.

I'm voting RyanK because I played with him before and he was really weird. His vote on the wagon pinged me, but I think it's just from how clipped it sounds, so I want him to talk more.

[Expedience]

I know, I think I worked out how to not get mislynched (so long as I don't degenerate). I can't be scum here, at least it feels that way to myself.

[Expedience]

I agree with GuiltyLion so far.

VOTE: NJAC

I think House is town because he's so eager.

Have you played with House before?

Yes

I'm voting RyanK because I played with him before and he was really weird.

Please elaborate how he was "really weird" when you played with him.

Posting superficial analysis about things that happened ages ago while everyone else was in the present, and changing votes erratically.

[Expedience]

I guess because Maruchan looked town? He didn't do anything else, but he was my strongest town read.

[Expedience]

Anyway, let's hear who NJAC thinks is scum now. If he votes the person I'm thinking of, he will be officially pardoned.

[Expedience]

RVS makes me want to lurk and makes it harder to engage with the game later

[Expedience]

I guess because Maruchan looked town? He didn't do anything else, but he was my strongest town read.

If you didn't tell anyone else that he was your strongest town read, how is it supposed to affect the night kill? Also, why did you even think he was town?

I figure the scum also saw he looked town.

I thought Maruchan was town because he hammered casually and was posting honestly and off the top of his head. I'm not describing it well, it was more a strong instinct when I read the thread.

It can't hurt much to let Ryan post his questions, House.

[Expedience]

RVS makes me want to lurk and makes it harder to engage with the game later

Why did you disappear after post 31 until toDay?

I was busy / sleeping irl, I wasn't lurking.

[Expedience]

VOTE: NJAC
L-1

So you agree with GuiltyLion's point, now that the mistake was clarified, or is this vote for another reason?

[Expedience]

I think Ryan will be able to explain, I don't think that's a damning result. I'm not going to say why now though for reasons.

[Expedience]

Yes

And according to your experience, is he eager only when he's town?

Not sure

I am currently ascetic

Why exactly do you think it's a good idea to reveal that info this early?

I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

Why are you conjecturing instead of letting Ryank explain?

This is the origin of NJAC's scumposting.

[Expedience]

The fact that NJAC continues to park his vote on GuiltyLion after that claim cements my suspicion of him. I don't believe that he disbelieves the claim because its pretty believable

[Expedience]

I'm not sure if I was ascetic. Here's the situation. I was hated before I changed my role in the night. After I changed my role, I was ascetic.

I can buy that.

Me too.

[Expedience]

Not sure

Yet, you said he's town because he's so eager.

Yep, I don't have meta on a particular aspect of his play, not sure what you are trying to prove here.

This is the origin of NJAC's scumposting.

Elaborate?

The worst posts you made.

[Expedience]

@Expedience: In case you didn't note it 154 was addressed to you. Please answer.

gigabyteTroubadour, because they're my other scumread. But you voted GuiltyLion instead, sorry.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Expedience

Gut + I think you're not trying to figure out my alignment but to mislynch me by ensuring that my wagon doesn't lose steam.

I am trying to figure out your alignment.

I don't share my thoughts sometimes. I don't think most of the many questions you ask are asked in earnest.

This post and the ones on this page feel kind of town actually, I'm not so sure of myself.

but then I see this shit:

If so, why aren't you asking me to clarify what you don't understand?

I better pretend to be scumhunting and try to go with the flow while passing unnoticed.

FTFY

" [discredit] nice scumclaim ✔ ✔ "

[Expedience]

I picked RyanK as he had one post, was on a mislynch wagon, and I figured if I got a VT result then I could play it slow and see who tried to push him and why

Neapolitan doesn't give alignment. Goons are vanilla too.

Neapolitan is a VT cop, you're thinking of vanilla cop.

source: the spyrex md thread

[Expedience]

gigabyteTroubadour, because they're my other scumread. But you voted GuiltyLion instead, sorry.

Why are you scumreading gigabyte?

A lot of words saying nothing, they make zero stances.

Also, you said I would be pardoned if I voted them. I didn't vote giga. Question: Am I scum for not having the same scum reads you have?

No

@Expedience:

Is House your top town read? If so, why?

Not sure, he is a townread though.

[Expedience]

...try using preview.

My read on House is gut =[

Also I changed my mind about NJAC, literally my entire problem with him is playstyle.

VOTE: gigabyteTroubadour

[Expedience]

Technically GT does take stances, you're right. That was an oversimplification.

All roles are randomly generated. Generally speaking it's a role + modifier, though you can end up vanilla and / or with no mods.

hm...

Does having two ascetics mean that one is town and the other scum? I doubt that personally because of this, and I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

What I meant was that this post really says nothing. I don't know why they would even post this other than to "show working" but it isn't even real working, how can you say "js i doubt that personally tbh imo" when the OP literally says all roles are generated by RNG. This sounds like a nitpicky reason on the surface I'll admit, but the post just sounds like a fake thought process in part due to this as well as the self-contradiction

As well as the kill speculation thing.

Also, that checking the OP thing at the start of the game was ridiculously fake. "let me post about how im going to check something rather than actually just doing it"

the iso sounds so wolfy I just realized.

[Expedience]

FTFY

" [discredit] nice scumclaim ✔ ✔ "

...try using preview.

My read on House is gut =[

Also I changed my mind about NJAC, literally my entire problem with him is playstyle.

VOTE: gigabyteTroubadour

You think NJAC scumclaim, but vote Giggles?

What even the fuck?

No, what I meant is that he was asserting that you scumclaimed.

I decided not to vote NJAC because he did the leading question thing a lot in another game I read.

[Expedience]

EBWOP:

...
Hunt scum and trust town to recognize their own.

So, House, hunting scum is good, but...

Why are you relying on the situation instead of your own reads?

Because only idiots and scum interfere with scumhunting.

I wonder which one you are.

...scumhunting is not good.

If anybody else can comprehend the logic in this post, please explain it to me.

He misinterpreted the way "with" was being used in the second quote as something like "because only idiots interfere by scumhunting"

[Expedience]

Ryan thinks that you said that scumhunting constituted interfering with the game. You meant:

Only idiots intefere with scumhunting

But ryan saw:

Only idiots interfere by using scumhunting to obstruct other things

And this isn't even a particularly weird viewpoint, he asked you about it before and this is the culmination of his confusion

Because Ryan read the "with" differently, it's like:

i played chess with brandy

And you can actually see it two ways because Brandy can also be a (ghetto) name

Not sure how much clearer I can be

Also I think Ryan is town.

[Expedience]

Lol, typical scum maneuvering... Rage OMGUS once getting called out and pretend to ignore me.

Okay I know I just said I wouldn't respond, but I can't resist pointing this out - there's literally no rage in my posts. Further, I gave many legitimate reasons as to why you are obvious scum that have nothing to do with OMGUS. Just to recap:

1. When you started getting votes, you softed a valuable PR and also threw up AtE
2. You justified your vote on me with several misreps, particularly "you are clinging to ascetic" when that's bluntly not true. I traded my role already
3. You claiming to have a VT-result on NJAC is not reflected in your ISO from earlier today. It has scum motivation in both trying to save your ass and also creating WIFOM about NJAC's (the other primary scumspect) alignment.

I don't think I can get a read on House, but I've read this over and 3) is the only point that I'm worried by.

1) is a towntell, 2) seems tenuous and I think House would do that as town

Otherwise, more sure you are town now. Not sure how to read NJAC.

[Expedience]

House you're also claiming neapolitan, right? Why weren't you bothered by GuiltyLion claiming the same role as you?

[Expedience]

I picked RyanK as he had one post, was on a mislynch wagon, and I figured if I got a VT result then I could play it slow and see who tried to push him and why

Neapolitan doesn't give alignment. Goons are vanilla too.

This is a (pretty unfortunate) scumslip then.

Intent to check the VC before voting

[Expedience]

VOTE: House

L-2

[Expedience]

:/

I think the mod should confirm if there was an error. I don't believe you at face value though.

[Expedience]

UNVOTE: House

Even if he isn't lying about the error there are holes, though

[Expedience]

Lol, typical scum maneuvering... Rage OMGUS once getting called out and pretend to ignore me.

Okay I know I just said I wouldn't respond, but I can't resist pointing this out - there's literally no rage in my posts. Further, I gave many legitimate reasons as to why you are obvious scum that have nothing to do with OMGUS. Just to recap:

1. When you started getting votes, you softed a valuable PR and also threw up AtE
2. You justified your vote on me with several misreps, particularly "you are clinging to ascetic" when that's bluntly not true. I traded my role already
3. You claiming to have a VT-result on NJAC is not reflected in your ISO from earlier today. It has scum motivation in both trying to save your ass and also creating WIFOM about NJAC's (the other primary scumspect) alignment.

I don't think I can get a read on House, but I've read this over and 3) is the only point that I'm worried by.

1) is a towntell, 2) seems tenuous and I think House would do that as town

Otherwise, more sure you are town now. Not sure how to read NJAC.

How on Earth is 1) a towntell? 1 is in no way a towntell, it's incredibly scummy. Especially given that House left no discernible crumb or result-soft in his day opening, in fact,

he voted and pushed the player he allegedly had an "innocent" result on

. That's not how a town PR plays. Further, House's anger is just transparently fake. I'm honestly kinda surprised anyone can read his 240 and 258 and see that as town.

If scum soft a PR and appeal to emotion, it's because they are trying to imitate towntells imo

It doesn't matter though, I agree with you.

He's given two contradictory explanations for his behavior. Even if he was telling the truth about "lel i voted my clear for reactions", he can't simultaneously have gotten a "vanilla" (instead of "VT") result on NJAC.

[Expedience]

I used Micro 571 for my investigation, where GuiltyLion was a town tracker. He suspected BlackStar for reasons and track BlackStar night 1 (I isolated the moderator's posts to figure that out). You can check out Micro 571 for yourself here. If GuiltyLion tracked BlackStar because he suspected BlackStar, there is no excuse for him to not investigate NJAC, whom GuiltyLion thinks is scum.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Neapolitan works differently to tracker. Neapolitan is best for targeting townreads because if you target scum, you won't know whether or not your target is scum or a PR. You want to maximize your chances of hitting a VT.

[Expedience]

That's internally consistent, but seems unlikely and I still don't buy the reasoning for voting NJAC earlier.

VOTE: House

[Expedience]

I really do not see any contradiction in House's ISO and his Neapolitan claim when considering the mod error, so I'm believing it. if someone still disagrees I'd like them to point out where

Also, I just realized that Maru claimed vanilla D1, so I'm thinking that the nightkill was made to give more momentum to the NJAC mislynch, since Maru didn't really express any opinion on NJAC during twilight. Since NJAC is now conftown for all intents and purposes (he can still be House's scumbuddy, but I'd prefer a scum!House lynch first), I'm going to have to give Guilty a second look when I reread. House might be scum but picking town!NJAC as an inspect is really weird to do since confirming him as vanilla is derailing an otherwise mislynch.

In terms of reads. Ryan is obvtown, NJAC is psuedoclear, and I know I'm town... House picking NJAC as an inspect is more likely than not town-motivated, so even without scumreads scum are probably in {Guilty, Expedience, Not_Mafia}. ez game ez money $$

also njac what is your secret to sorting Not_Mafia? i'm using poe but I'm cringing as i do it so uh

This doesn't feel genuine

Just because there aren't contradictions in House's posts (and there are, do you seriously believe the whole thing with voting NJAC?), that doesn't make him town. Especially since he claimed under pressure.

[Expedience]

I'm not saying he's definitely scum, he could just be cagey, but he's definitely giving the most scummy pings so far relative to the other posts, especially given a town!Flames

I've played with Not_Mafia a lot. I have experience with him myself. The idea that he'd react in a significant way to a lone RVS vote is a joke.

NJAC presented a good question, made me revisit Guilty's ISO where i found this.

Guilty, why didn't you investigate NJAC if you were suspicious of him?

So I was also a neapolitan in addition to being ascetic, which is why I didn't trade the role.

Why does getting "Vanilla/Not Vanilla" results as well as being untargetable

for anything except kills

make it a desirable role?

You're a sitting duck for the night kill, and your results don't serve any realistic purpose in a role madness game.

Ryan, these were the posts that GuiltyLion was referring to.

House repeated similar arguments later, it's not a scumslip

[Expedience]

What is the case on House, Neapolitan is often confused with vanilla cop, I modded a normal centerwd around it and everyone got it confused

House claims that:

He is a neapolitan
He initially got a result of "vanilla" on NJAC night 1
He thought that this was a valid result, and that this made NJAC vanilla town, not because he understood his role (he thought he was vanilla cop), but because he didn't think goon counted as vanilla
Then, he supposedly voted NJAC (who he thought was clear at the time) under the pretense of "getting reactions from guiltylion"
Then, he realized that goon did count as vanilla and asked the mod about his result, who corrected it to NJAC giving a result of VT
The mod has refused to clarify publicly whether or not a mistake was made

All of this is mostly filled in over time after House got questioned (he didn't claim the mod error at first until I pointed out a misunderstanding he expressed of the neapolitan role before claiming), so the narrative is difficult to believe. Like, the excuses for voting NJAC and misunderstanding how neapolitan works don't really mesh properly.

[Expedience]

...
Also I don't like the current wagon on Flames, and am waiting for the responses from Expedience to decide if Ryank wagon is a good one.
...

If so, why aren't you asking me to clarify what you don't understand?

I'd rather wait to see how things unfold for a bit before interfering in the push on you.

Why are you relying on the situation instead of your own reads?

Because he's scum. He's not scum hunting.

VOTE: House

Should I say the same of you?
VOTE: NJAC

Remember, NJAC can't be scum unless House is also scum because House claimed a VT result on him. You should be voting House if you think NJAC is scum.

[Expedience]

He's given two contradictory explanations for his behavior. Even if he was telling the truth about "lel i voted my clear for reactions", he can't simultaneously have gotten a "vanilla" (instead of "VT") result on NJAC.

Check my games. I've never been Neapolitan OR a role cop. I thought "Vanilla" meant "Vanilla Town".

Then i realized that goons were vanilla mafia.

For Jesus' sake, my confusion isn't that hard to follow.

I picked RyanK as he had one post, was on a mislynch wagon, and I figured if I got a VT result then I could play it slow and see who tried to push him and why

Neapolitan doesn't give alignment. Goons are vanilla too.

Okay, he's scum then lol

[Expedience]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7819384 =)

[Expedience]

He's given two contradictory explanations for his behavior. Even if he was telling the truth about "lel i voted my clear for reactions", he can't simultaneously have gotten a "vanilla" (instead of "VT") result on NJAC.

Check my games. I've never been Neapolitan OR a role cop. I thought "Vanilla" meant "Vanilla Town".

Then i realized that goons were vanilla mafia.

For Jesus' sake, my confusion isn't that hard to follow.

I picked RyanK as he had one post, was on a mislynch wagon, and I figured if I got a VT result then I could play it slow and see who tried to push him and why

Neapolitan doesn't give alignment. Goons are vanilla too.

Okay, he's scum then lol

That was before I knew Neapolitan was a VT cop. I clarified with the mod after i was corrected about 209.

Duh.

But your explanation in 356 isn't consistent with that.

In 356: "I thought neapolitan was a vanilla cop because I didn't realize goons counted as vanilla"
In 209: "neapolitan is vanilla cop because neapolitan checks if someone is vanilla and goons are also vanilla"

[Expedience]

??? ? ????? ? ?? ? ?? ? ????

[Expedience]

nvm there was a change in interpretation of his results before he confronted the moderator, I get it now.

UNVOTE: House

I'm still not convinced that this makes him town because he could be a scum neapolitan, and the thing with voting a clear. But I think he's almost certainly a neapolitan.

[Expedience]

You wanna mislynch me because I'm not a proper little stereotypical townie? Whatever. But Expedience, you should know damned well there's nothing typical about my town game so you just have yourself to blame.

Assuming that House is scum then this line makes Expedience conf-town, he's talking to Expedience as if he already knows Expedience is town

Really? That could very easily be distancing if we were scum together. I mean, I'm town, but that's not a good argument.

his AtE and misreps on me still speak volumes as to his alignment.

But it's House

Not very sure who is scum here.

Consider this the stance I'm taking, Expedience. also your push on me was pretty lacking, i got you scumread me but where was the convincing people? the questioning of me? it didn't feel genuine.

I don't like this though.

[Expedience]

Spoiler: general timeline of House's read on NJAC

93, 96, 99, 101

Day 1, House has pretty much no read on NJAC and dismisses GuiltyLion's push. The combination of 96 and 99 gives me the vibe that House is more interested in why GuiltyLion is pushing NJAC rather than looking into NJAC himself, since House finds 92 interesting but doesn't care for the rest of GL's push.

134

House's vote on NJAC here feels more like a D1 push you make when you find what someone said or did interesting rather than scummy. It's a vote with the intention of sorting.

163

House is talking about NJAC like he town or nullreads him. It's also an interesting question to ask someone you're sheeping and might otherwise look contradictory (following them while questioning), but looks to me that he's, again, sorting a slot.

168

House is under the impression that Neapolitans get Vanilla/Not Vanilla results. Nothing to really say about this other than to acknowledge it.

186

Now House is starting to talk to NJAC like he scumreads him. I presume that this comes from the fact that he dislikes NJAC's push on Expedience, the read and tone transition at least makes sense to me with what has been happening in the thread.

191

So while House is scumreading NJAC, he's sitting out of the push because he's still sorting him.

209

House's read on NJAC has been relatively fluid and weak, which makes since given the night action result House claims he has ("vanilla" is completely not alignment indicative).

211

And now Expedience calls House out on his mistake concerning Neapolitans. After this, notice the complete lack of discussion on NJAC after this point in House's ISO. I'm assuming at this time, House is PM'ing Smeagol and asking for clarification on what happened.

308

Read this post carefully. House is literally saying that he has an inno on NJAC and is trying to derail Guilty's push on him. This coming out of the blue actually makes

sense

to me... He probably received the mod's PM around this time and now knows for sure that NJAC is town. Reminds me of what Guilty said earlier about innos, and how that change in reads can look awkward.

315

And House outs his result right here...

321

This is totally something House would do btw, reminds me of when he used me as bait in my newbie. Basically, I jumped onto a wagon that House started pushing and then House started "tunneling" onto me (his top townread that game) to see if anyone else would sheep on. The idea behind the gambit was clever, but I saw through it and that was evident because of how I defended myself. Basically House would totally vote his townreads with ulterior motives when he's town and I see the merit behind what he did this game.

356

House tells us here that his interpretation of his "Vanilla" result changed as he was posting, which makes sense with his ISO:

at 163, House is talking about NJAC like he believes he's town, so it's presumable that this is when he thought "Vanilla" meant VT. Then in 186, his language implies a scumread, matching up with his realization he mentioned in 356 and matches up with 209 chronologically. We can assume the mod correction came after 209, as House's language returns to that of a townread in 308.

Point is, you can actually follow the exact transition of House's thought process wrt to his night actions in the thread. There is NOTHING that contradicts his claim in his actions.

This feels like an extremely exploitative push from Expedience, since there's everything in the thread to back up House, yet he keeps pushing on what seems to be a genuine misunderstanding in mod-communications.

VOTE: Expedience

Consider this the stance I'm taking, Expedience. also your push on me was pretty lacking, i got you scumread me but where was the convincing people? the questioning of me? it didn't feel genuine.

Every time I try to parse this I just get confused. I can't get to the same level of undersfanding again.

[Expedience]

Guilty, you didn't seem concerned with or even acknowledged my unvote. Who do you think is scum with House?

I've mostly focused on the objective aspects of House's claim and explanations given for his behavior because I find it impossible to tell whether or not his confidence levels are genuine. The "liar" thing is something that I don't find alignment indicative because of this. He discredits people like that all the time as either alignment I think. I can understand your desire to lynch House and it looks mostly town to me.

[Expedience]

...
Also I don't like the current wagon on Flames, and am waiting for the responses from Expedience to decide if Ryank wagon is a good one.
...

If so, why aren't you asking me to clarify what you don't understand?

I'd rather wait to see how things unfold for a bit before interfering in the push on you.

Why are you relying on the situation instead of your own reads?

Because he's scum. He's not scum hunting.

VOTE: House

Should I say the same of you?
VOTE: NJAC

Remember, NJAC can't be scum unless House is also scum because House claimed a VT result on him. You should be voting House if you think NJAC is scum.

If we vote House, it's rather WIFOM if House is town. If we vote NJAC, however, it is with 100% certainty that House is scum. And yet, if NJAC is town, it's WIFOM all over again as to whether House is scum as House could have always claimed his results as it is as scum. So, we should be voting for whoever we are more certain is scum.

@House:

Would you like to share the corrected results? Judging by the result the mod gave you, he would have gave you vanilla results instead of whether NJAC is a VT.

This doesn't make sense at all, I can't even parse it. Simply put, NJAC can only be scum with House, House can be scum with anyone, so we vote House before NJAC in all cases. Information isn't relevant, just choose the safest option.

House said that it was revised to specifically VT, the history of neapolitans thing also supports this.

[Expedience]

I thought I already posted in this game but actually I just saved it. Here is this incomplete snapshot of my thoughts:

Spoiler:

I really do not see any contradiction in House's ISO and his Neapolitan claim when considering the mod error, so I'm believing it. if someone still disagrees I'd like them to point out where

Also, I just realized that Maru claimed vanilla D1, so I'm thinking that the nightkill was made to give more momentum to the NJAC mislynch, since Maru didn't really express any opinion on NJAC during twilight. Since NJAC is now conftown for all intents and purposes (he can still be House's scumbuddy, but I'd prefer a scum!House lynch first), I'm going to have to give Guilty a second look when I reread. House might be scum but picking town!NJAC as an inspect is really weird to do since confirming him as vanilla is derailing an otherwise mislynch.

In terms of reads. Ryan is obvtown, NJAC is psuedoclear, and I know I'm town... House picking NJAC as an inspect is more likely than not town-motivated, so even without scumreads scum are probably in {Guilty, Expedience, Not_Mafia}. ez game ez money $$

also njac what is your secret to sorting Not_Mafia? i'm using poe but I'm cringing as i do it so uh

If House is town for a neapolitan claim, why is GuiltyLion in the elimination list? I don't know either.

GT's defense of House makes me not want to vote House partially even though it's partially WIFOM. GT's conviction that House is town comes from confirmation bias. I don't think they could just intuitively understand what was posted in 413, I think GT at first internally oversimplified it to "a townie had incorrect results from the mod and the other townies are hounding him for it" and then only went into the details later.

My push on House was intended to clarify misunderstandings and I didn;t

There's still Not_Mafia though, he could be scum idfk.

Anyway, this makes me think that GL and GT are scum.

The idea of House / NJAC is fake, House could be scum with almost anyone. I'd actually say that House's claimed result on NJAC makes such a team less likely. Giving evidence on NJAC is just an excuse to vote House.

According to GT, House is an extremely strong townread and everything he said was perfectly consistent. It doesn't make sense to now want to lynch him for information, when GL is a weaker read based mostly on play rather than the claim (which is hard evidence). The other stated excuse "cuz deadline" doesn't make sense either because GL was at L-1 and House was at L-3.

The thing I'm not sure about though is GL, he looks kinda town to me. I'd much rather lynch GT, but I may not have much choice.

If he flips scum, then we get a free mislynch we can burn on me since I was practically House's bodyguard and the most obvious partner, I wouldn't want to make LYLO at that point.

Now I don't want to lynch House at all, GT would almost certainly not say this after voting House if they were scum with him. If GT was town, House could be scum, but idk.

This is bullshit. I don't know who to vote, I'll wait for a replacement.

House [2]: GuiltyLion, gigabyteTroubadour
Not_Mafia [1]: RyanK
GuiltyLion [3]: House, NJAC, Not_Mafia
Abstaining [1]: Expedience

[Expedience]

No need to worry.

[Expedience]

Hello!

I'm Vax, Vaxkiller, or whatever you want to call me that is still recognizable as such.

I'm catching up and will be posting later today.

Can you claim?

We don't have much time left, and it's important.

[Expedience]

Can you claim?

We don't have much time left, and it's important.

Why are you asking him to claim, since House already claimed?

In case he said something inconsistent with House's claim, there's nothing to lose from asking him.

VOTE: gigabyteTroubadour

[Expedience]

and can you talk to me about why scum!House derails town!NJAC's mislynch?

w h y are you voting him then

This is so disconnected from what is happening in the thread as well

[Expedience]

it's cool

why is my reasoning town-oriented though?

I could just see myself as town in your shoes making that post. Like, I don't agree with you re: NJAC/House being the only House scumteam, but if you are convinced of that then everything that follows makes sense re:flipping House and also accepting your own (presumed mis-)lynch if House flips scum. It makes you far less likely to be a House scumbuddy in my mind.

no it doesn't

and if you thought House was scum, this would look like bussing "oh this person i was hard defending the entire day? lol they make sense as scum with another player so imma vote them"

you can't just start townreading them after you get called out together that's not how it works ;-,

and can you talk to me about why scum!House derails town!NJAC's mislynch?

I'm guessing House did figure out that NJAC was a VT somehow, and thought that "clearing" NJAC would give him enough towncred to survive today. I also don't think NJAC was very likely to be lynched at the time of House's 315 - I had already moved my vote to House and I don't think most other people were expressing a firm desire to lynch NJAC. He had zero votes at the time.

true though kinda

[Expedience]

House you're also claiming neapolitan, right? Why weren't you bothered by GuiltyLion claiming the same role as you?

It's role goofiness, and he has a different modifier.

originally I wasn't going to mention this but this implies Vaxkiller has a modifier and he didn't claim it, I mean meh he didn't disclaim it

also tell us who you think is scum please Vaxkiller

[Expedience]

Because really I don't like how your scumreads are entirely shady VCA and the people who are voting you.

I don't want to tunnel so I'm considering if your slot is scum even though I don't think it is atm

[Expedience]

Ryan and N_M, you need to choose Vaxkiller or GT. I don't want us to no lynch.

[Expedience]

I'm odd-turn box investigator, I never traded.

During night 1 I checked the box and saw ascetic, which Ryan presumably traded for

I could use it today to verify someone's claim after they swap it, although that doesn't help much considering roles aren't indicative of alignment.

[Expedience]

@Expedience: why didn't you trade your role yesterday/last night?

Trading seems like a bad idea if you have a role that isn't negative utility

[Expedience]

Yes, considering the current state of the game. I would say Not mafia and expedience. I know its WIFOM but with ryan being the NK, guilty seems more likely town.

Why?

I think we should swap our roles in a random circle to make sure everyone's telling the truth. I'll check what's in the box now.

Also I don't have any reads except njac now, feels bad ;-,

[Expedience]

NJAC + [GL/Vax]

It's impossible for NJAC to be scum with anyone other than Vax.

I checked the box and it contains vanilla.

[Expedience]

Also I don't have any reads except njac now, feels bad

What read is that and why?

A townread on you.

It's the sort of read where you read up and realize that over a period of time they've consistently improved their image in your eyes without you really noticing anything specific.

[Expedience]

I think we should lynch Vaxxinekillr

[Expedience]

N_M, you shouldn't vote NJAC.

Vaxkiller claimed a VT result on NJAC so if you think NJAC is scum it makes sense to vote Vaxkiller first

[Expedience]

N_M feels town here, the asking to be voted shows he's confident that it's NJAC / Vaxkiller and wants them to be confirmed when nobody hammers.

[Expedience]

Actually I changed my mind and I think we should lynch the other guys.

[Expedience]

Actually, I'm just retarded.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Expedience]

UNVOTE:

[Expedience]

:s

I feel really stupid now.

[Expedience]

yeah, I liked the game mechanic (even though I never actually swapped my role).

[Expedience]

Yes to the questions, but I think the censor role is messed up and it would annoy me if that got used.

[Expedience]

No just it would be really annoying if someone's post got deleted, it's possible that it could be reconstructed from memory but that would be inconvenient. I guess it could be used to cover up scumslips but it's still not a fun mechanic. It's like if you made a game where you could only post ten characters in every post, it wouldn't add much to the game but it would be technically possible to play around.