Micro 718 - Roleblocker 6 (Game Over)

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: shaddowez

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: shos

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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I said yes that he could suggest it, I was saying no to actually doing it.

At least shos is confirmed town.

@Rask

- why the double RVS vote?

you read awk but shos is dodging

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everytime I wanna try new meta the game just ends up dying

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okay gamma, go into detail on how shaddows thing is a trick question vs sarcasm given his reply

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Oh wait. I was already doing that.

also you can elaborate given this implies a read change/downgrade

[Raskolnikov]

this game is a lil strange in that half the list is the sort of "has kind of been around but doesn't really play much" kind of player
and i've played with most of you but only have an okay record reading gamma

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more impatient tbh, if people were talking about random things but it was faster it'd at least be a bit interesting

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ok shos that's setup then
do you have any impressions of the game yet?

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also do you and vedith know each other?

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nah shos

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maybe shadow does something interesting when he gets back

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okay that works

now shos if you want more votes like you say you do, you'll have to go into why that's scum-motivated as opposed to just being "unreasonable"

[Raskolnikov]

welp

[Raskolnikov]

shos
shaddowez
kop
pyra

need more from at least 2 of these to get things rolling

[Raskolnikov]

hey buddy you should give people some rationale if you want them to vote with you

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kop we also played a game where you killed me night one

[Raskolnikov]

are you asking me for permission?

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when it happens it sucks but unless I played d1 perfectly and left behind good reads then there's still other things to look at. I think even using only 1 day someone can have a lot of impact on a game.

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was thinking of switching to gamma if shos towntold tbh

the problem is I think I have a long-term sort of meta tell on him (the kind you wait and see about) and his early is kinda weak

[Raskolnikov]

wanna hear shos reasoning first

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I think the gamma I remember tries to get things going and throws votes around early, usually in a very awkward way

so like 17/24 even though it's incomprehensible are the kind of moves I'd expect

vedith vote is harder to judge since vedith kinda initiated, but he feels low energy since

[Raskolnikov]

lots of questions like normal but a lot of them are kind of shit

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: gamma l-2

also still interested in shos, maybe kop (no vote from him)
pyra should arrive soon too

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if I could I would just leave for 5 days and come back though

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vedith is shos usually a slow starter?

I feel like by now there should enough in the game to work with

[Raskolnikov]

zzzzzzz

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VOTE: Gamma

THIS IS L-1

if gamma scum this is fine, if not then it's one of those things that has big upside (potentially gets claim) for low risk (easy to put it off as a reaction thing)

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think probably scum though

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gamma emerald who would you lynch at this point and why

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Vedith why do you scumread Edosurist? I don't care for your read on me right now.

FUCK
I mean shos not Edosurist
Also I'm fucking terrified of spelling your name wrong man Edosurist

also what posts gave this impression?
unless I missed something this reading comprehension is just so bad and it's not even something there'd be any incentive for

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gamma ISO vedith

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gamma

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ISO vedith

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what about his unvote when you were l-1?

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what's the important part again?

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how do you feel about this game gamma emerald?

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so you're very confident in vedith being scum?

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haven't you played with him a bit?
how is he inconsistent here?

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that was rhetorical. I've played with him less than you but you've said you scumread him for fooling around early and now for reaction testing which seem very normal for him to me

also he put the work into engaging you and shos and kind of started the game

do you think vedith shos would townread each other decide to wagon you together then vedith back off?

how do you feel alright about the game with this wagon still on you when even apparently you thought you got lynched just earlier?

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so vedith, shos, gamma emerald and edosurist all came out looking bad from that for you?

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kop is grasping at straws but I'm not sure if that's even a bad thing here

tbh this gamestate is kind of too circlejerky but I don't want to fight purely for the sake of it atm either

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TBH if kop wanted to just activity-showoff he could have sprinkled a townread or two there but he said everyone there came out for the worse which is just weird

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Gamma did you really think you were hammered earlier there?

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138 ?

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vedith and kop I don't get on this point, if the reaction you are 100% sure is fake and gamma isn't retracting that (basically straight up lying) it would be a huge deal to me.

I kinda hate being this wishy washy but gamma seems just so bad at reading that he could do that, and the caps lock kinda tone thing I've seen him act that way before.

[Raskolnikov]

Kop how do you come out of that voting edosurist if you think gamma is straight up lying?

[Raskolnikov]

Vedith unvote I can understand to stall since he talked about the blank slots

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It's more than that for me regarding Vedith, why would he reaction test me then devalue another's attempt? It reads disingenuous to me.
I kinda get that second point but like he could just be the type of guy to kickstart the game regardless of alignment. I think he may have done that in the past tbh
Maybe shos and Vedith do that? Could be a distancing thing where they didn't want to be on the same wagon.
I don't see why I can't feel alright? I think I have a mafia caught so I'm feeling good about town's odds.

Gamma I want a retrospective on this, what's changed.

[Raskolnikov]

Of people who seemed okay, shaddowez is probably the easiest to fake

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: shaddowez
on re-reading idk how he glosses over the gamma l-1 thing yesterday (which felt like a kind of major event) and asks 193/194 especially
at the time it seemed like a whatever question but now it reads strange his attention goes here

[Raskolnikov]

pyra do you have offsite experience?

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TBH if kop wanted to just activity-showoff he could have sprinkled a townread or two there but he said everyone there came out for the worse which is just weird

How is it weird?

I mean disliking how all 4 played that situation doesn't really make sense in game this small, but I don't see the scum motivation in potentially rubbing so many people the wrong way either

[Raskolnikov]

My outrage was fake because I was forcing the reaction. I did not know the hammer was fake until Vedith told me.

why were you forcing a reaction at all though?
why fake or exaggerate outrage instead of being like "welp meh" if you don't care that much?

[Raskolnikov]

is that hydra game the only micro it happened in?

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Gamma vote stopped doing anything anymore, and some people I think you just have to wait and see on

I want a response to what I said next though

You came in after gamma was brought up, fakehammer and the wagon dissipated and you don't comment on any of it but ask like the lamest questions, how can 194 seriously be the thing that sticks out to you after all of that?

[Raskolnikov]

I want everyone's thoughts on this

I get the feeling shaddowez is avoiding stances on important things and is being intentionally distant

Even this is more asking "why not others" than really a response to my vote or how he feels about what I said

[Raskolnikov]

also still interested in shos

I haz a question, is this *despite* reading 104 and my response to it?

I had a feeling you might've been doing that anyways and it didn't really auto change things either tbh
you still don't have info on someone at the end of the day and being ambiguous can be defensive

[Raskolnikov]

I think gamma is saying he thought he got hammered but exaggerated his response

I'd lynch him but more for how just how uninterested he seems to be this game, reacts super fast to most comments on him but doesn't really scumhunt for how much he's in-thread

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@mod

ASP's vla ended 2 days ago, I think he's in prod range?

[Raskolnikov]

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What happened your catchup? Did you never finish or something?

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This is the kind of game I'd replace out of if I replaced out of games

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more prods?

Ending the day would usually help if people were inactive because they're just bored (and things were "exhausted") but this is a different kind of situation and there's no evidence things necessarily even change

scum flip would make it not really matter, but if not then I don't think it's as useful as normal

[Raskolnikov]

Okay, closing thoughts and I guess a start to wrapping the day up tomorrow. Probably cant put it off any more even though it's stupid having to end like this

every player except for vedith and shos should write at minimum their lynch choices and a few comments when/if they get here

[Raskolnikov]

At this stage I'm conftable with Gamma town

Is this entirely from the gamestate or did you see something town now in his play?

[Raskolnikov]

I think ASP probably gets replaced today if I understand the activity rules.

[Raskolnikov]

I just remembered I'm super busy tomorrow and most of friday >_>

[Raskolnikov]

WRT gamma, I don't think vedith's theory is very reliable given the lurkish players generally having that kind of playstyle anyways, and ASP and (apparently) pyra having real reasons for their inactivity. But I know gamma sometimes is lynchbaity+awkward too and am okay giving him more time before judging since he at least posts.

Shaddowez I wanted to see what his response was before commenting more (and even tried not to talk about other things too much while waiting) but it still kind of is a judgement made on 2 posts and pretty much always I get more than that to work with. That said I'm happy lynching here as things are.

Pyra hasn't yet popped in to explain himself but there are some inconsistencies here I think. Finals should've ended on the 8th for him if I'm not misinterpreting so I don't really know why he's not in the game and especially as a newer player signing up people generally intend to play. The thing here is he made like he was catching up and I thought he'd do a catchup-post with comments and maybe a vote (was hoping for a fresh perspective to kickstart things too) but this kind of thing never really came and he just asked questions and kept being flakey. As of right now am okay lynching him.

Kop at least did some things and probably has the most lurker established meta, probably should wait and see more out of him before judging but I really wouldn't care too much getting rid of a slot like this either.

ASP gets benefit of the doubt given his reason for leaving being almost certainly true so he has a legitimate reason for this and hopefully replacement arrives anyways so that's fun. Actually looking again I kind of like his play, since he seemed to be focusing on the right things and looked to be interested.

[Raskolnikov]

Super premature but probably realistically couldn't have held off any longer

so as is

Decent lynching

Shaddowez
Pyra

Could lynch but also fine giving another day to

(well...)
Gamma
Kop

[Raskolnikov]

@mod

would a day or two of extension be permissible, given the replacement and the mass inactivity?

[Raskolnikov]

Right, so, gone till friday afternoon (~40h from now)

[Raskolnikov]

Ok finally back, my dad wanted to stay another day there

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My gut is telling me {ASP,

Wait why ASP ?

[Raskolnikov]

Nvm, reading comprehension

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Pyra lurk meta checks out, but that doesn't make him town either though

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Pyra why don't you reread and try again t finding scum

How do you say this with a straight face?

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I hate how being useless and active lurking can be optimal because people generally want to lynch on something beyond null and with some information, and it's viable long term because people so many people are genuinely like that and if you get to lategame people don't really question it either

Same with lurking and flaking near deadline because wagoning someone v/la feels bad and unproductive and actually lynching a slot not present can kind of have issues

It's manageable with 1-2 people and maybe lurker-lynchs work there but you can't afford it for 3+ slots

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Pyra l-2

If there's no extension this is it.
Hopefully people replace in and extend deadline so there's another chance to reconsider

Usually I've seen replaces fill fast so idk how these take so long

[Raskolnikov]

ok
I'll work on my top 2 but I'm not particularly suspecting Pyra rn.

If this doesn't happen soon, maybe we do gamma instead

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

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Hey aristo. I remember we played once and I mislynched your slot, heh.

[Raskolnikov]

So this game is in a rough state, people don't scumread much in the actives, but it's kind of late in the day to do anything about the other slots. If it's not too much it'd be a big help if you read or even skimmed fast, hopefully today, and maybe get involved before it's too late.

Right now I think I want gamma since he posts a fair bit but doesn't really scumhunt, so it reads more disinterest than being busy or not having time for the game which other people say is the case for them.

[Raskolnikov]

I knew it was a fake hammer, even before Vedith mentioned it was. The whole thing just has gone round in circles with Gamma contradicting everything he was saying. Now I know it was mentioned by Vedith later in the game that he participates in a lot of games so most likely forgets everything that he's been saying, which would kinda point me into the direction that he may be town and is a mis lynch, because I know in general as scum you have to be careful in everything that your saying because lies is what gets you lynched. And in this case, the lies have built up, but I don't think it's a case of forgetting what he's been saying, I think it's a case now, that he's just back tracking and trying to get the attention of himself.

I probably have to meta kop but this reads super awkward even though I don't disagree.

[Raskolnikov]

I think because it's a really general summary with strong statements made but no specifics or a vote.

Don't mean to detract from the wagon, though.

[Raskolnikov]

Also hi persivul, if you wanna show up aristo you can beat him to a catchu post btw

I remember you played in that epic comeback game a while ago

[Raskolnikov]

I think because it's a really general summary with strong statements made but no specifics or a vote.

Don't mean to detract from the wagon, though.

I would vote for Gamma, but I don't want a premature hammer right now.

Well obviously that's true now, he wasn't l-1 when you made the post though

[Raskolnikov]

In truth I'm not sure why that looks awkward to me and was kinda just speculating

[Raskolnikov]

In general I try not to much stock into awkwardness or phrasing and usually just keep things like that to myself, but that post kinda stuck out
Probably not worth relative to the amount of discussion over it tbh but there's not much else to talk about I guess

[Raskolnikov]

Actually, persivul you've read the game, you're kind of present and if your vote is taken face value you agree with the gamma wagon, you have any thoughts you'd like to share? Anything interesting you noticed catching up?

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Mmm. I hope this is right but that siteflake timing blurs things a bit. At least I don't think he reacted to his earlier wagon as a PR would/should so this should probably be safe

[Raskolnikov]

FTR, regardless of flip I think persivul probably did what the necessary thing here and was pretty of pro-town around this deadline. I'm not sure of his align, but if he is scum it wouldn't be for anything he did today imo, if that makes sense. I'd probably have waited to like the 12h mark but that's just a personality/stylistic thing I know some people are different on

A townread I'm not sure many people share now is edo, he started off slow but gradually I've seen what looks like real scumhunting from him and I'm fairly confident he's town at this point.

I really think pyra response comes from town too though I'm not sure I can explain in a way that would get anyone to share my view there

S or T flip, I'd probably look for scum between kop and aristo tomorrow with some consideration/caution for persivul

[Raskolnikov]

Shos is probably town from that midday play but as an experienced player I don't know much about, I'd re-evaluate as things go on anyways. Vedith plays a lot w/ and seems to vouch which is a plus, though idk his track record reading him

Vedith is obvtown and I can verify his approach on gamma, the things he said about him are accurate/fair from my own experience and that read had real consideration into it by my judgement. a word of caution though, I've seen town vedith lose his cool later into a game and kinda get himself mislynched, the last time I saw it happen realtime and strong townread him but still couldn't stop his lynch lol. So watch out.

I think that's everything.

[Raskolnikov]

Almost definitely a PR shot since edo wasn't the most townread but kind of quiet.

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Hey aristo, let's hear your catchup now mmkay?

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I'm wondering why scum kop wouldn't just bus there, he didn't try to lynch anyone else so why not bus with a partner lynch inevitable?

He could still be scum, of course. That play around deadline definitely looks bad with gamma being scum, I'm just not sure if he would really make himself look that bad if he knew that flip was coming though, if that makes sense.

[Raskolnikov]

(expired on 2017-06-24 15:30:00)

[Raskolnikov]

V/LA from tomorrow to either sunday or monday (

26 June

)

[Raskolnikov]

Actually I think I'm not gonna be here in the morning

anyways I want to see reads from aristo or kop before I think about where to go. I think pyra is still likely town but stuff from him absolutely wouldn't hurt either

[Raskolnikov]

Man I leave for the weekend and literally nothing happens >__>

[Raskolnikov]

@mod

can you prod kop pls?

[Raskolnikov]

Aristo set vla in profile but it's not in the VC, so maybe him too.

[Raskolnikov]

Just need to sort one even, if it's good wouldn't even mind auto voting the other on that poe

[Raskolnikov]

I can't help but think Rask is scum here...

the thing with bussing d1 is, even if you play perfect daygame you have something like >50% chance of auto losing via night actions which makes it strictly EV negative
one newbie I bussed d2 but even there got screwed by doc+tracker into forfeiting (tracker+doc claims were 2 conftowns, tracker clear plus doc heal near-clear iirc)

[Raskolnikov]

actually I agree with that, I ended up trimming and summarising that post cuz my initial response was "I'm not that stupid" but then I ranted into like a giant paragraph of why it's dumb but then figured it probably wasn't useful spamming the thread about it

[Raskolnikov]

that's a really good post form pyra here

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: kop

can see pyra's point on kop potentially trying to buy gamma some time

[Raskolnikov]

Huh. That looks like real gamesolving to me but I'm not sure why he doesn't go further. Maybe he is wondering how strong it is, I guess he says it's odd and off and not straight up calling it that scummy, he kind of walks it back a bit at the end too.

[Raskolnikov]

If it's because of a certain thing that happened earlier then it's very understandable

@Pyra why didn't you vote there?

[Raskolnikov]

@Kop I assume you'll respond/defend yourself, but if you could also give your scumreads and why after you catch up I'd like to see that too

[Raskolnikov]

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:
nah, we're going in for the long haul today boys
I want to feel >80% confident in a read on one read in either the aristo slot or kop slot before ending the day

[Raskolnikov]

I really appreciate the offer, probably taking a few weeks break after my ongoings finish though
But there should be no shortage of people interested for that theme I think!

[Raskolnikov]

At the very minimum it'd be terrible to lynch at this point without claim, but optimal play is waiting for replacement because by the time that happens aristo probably finishes his meetup too.

If you are feeling very impatient just /in other games or something

[Raskolnikov]

*optimal play is waiting for replacement and having them say read up, say their piece, re-evaluate, etc

[Raskolnikov]

mfw like a player but conflicted about them replacing because they're a pain to read even though it's like completely unfair, essentially my own fault, and it's objectively a good thing for a player to be

[Raskolnikov]

why would you claim at l-2 after I just said the day isn't ending any time soon

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Aristo

One more slot and I should be able to solve this
meet should be over by now...

[Raskolnikov]

Don't insta escalate to intent like rabid dogs this time though. I want to see reads, not quasi emotional reactions or role claims.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't have a read on him and that's the problem.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't have a problem with the wagon, it's when you say intent and act like it's something about to happen, you give people an out to react emotionally or alarmist... at least me personally I don't like to work with those things compared to analysis or reads.

[Raskolnikov]

I wonder to myself though what to do about that sometimes... in some ways I almost shouldn't pressure the people I'm most interested in because my preference is seeing someone in their natural behaviour and not overtly defending themselves, but that's also kind of giving them a pass

[Raskolnikov]

If we're being realistic this game could probably still be like a 70% if it is done lazy and quick and people do just scorched-earth the edges assuming none of the powertown are misreads but I don't really want any chance for regrets.

[Raskolnikov]

FTR transcend reaction is meh, look forward to that catchup.

[Raskolnikov]

Can we get Kop back?

[Raskolnikov]

at this point, probably gamma's

[Raskolnikov]

If you have decent meta on anyone here that'd be interesting to hear too

[Raskolnikov]

If you don't feel some inherent drive to play the game though then I'm not particularly sure why you joined

[Raskolnikov]

I guess that's a pretty asshole thing to say if you joined for the playerlist tho <__<

[Raskolnikov]

Actually it looks like you PM'd the mod directly? Don't see this one in the thread.

[Raskolnikov]

Cmon man at least iso gamma...

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

[Raskolnikov]

Transcend standard play is just to lynch VT claims in a scenario like this, BBT said similar. The thing on Kop wasn't ever his lurking it was how he played around gamma wagon and at this point PoE.

I've tried stalling today to hope to get something, anything really from you and aristo slots but you not catching up or even bothering to ISO gamma like you offered is making me think it was a mistake...

The only thing that's annoying is it'd give aristo a free pass for another day if you really are just being lazy, and in his case he even had way more time to do something.

[Raskolnikov]

Because you early claimed like you did the onus is on you to make it a very compelling case for why someone else should be lynched.

If you're town it's purely worth reading up on the game and trying to solve the thing because even if you aren't convincing with it, it becomes useful information and your scumhunting is decent from what I remember.

So I don't agree with your persivul read, but right now I'm not sure it's even worth engaging with since you don't explain it and you're still missing all the context you'd have gotten from reading.

[Raskolnikov]

A few months ago under an alt I replaced into a game at l-1, took maybe an hour or two and skimmed each ISO (maybe 5-10 minutes on each, if someone obvtowns I just moved to next) to try to leave something decent in case I did die. Managed to get away without even having to claim and though my scumread was wrong initially I re-evaluated with a proper reread and led a lynch onto scum, made convinced people why this one weird slot's play was town-motivated and he stopped being in everyones lynchpool, next day he was the one to pretty much get the partner lynch to close it. Though even in the worst scenario like replacing into town who's near certain to be lynched in lylo you can still try solving the game for it's own sake and testing scumhunting/speed-solving.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Transcend

If you're that convinced persivul is mafia why can't you answer any of my questions there or even bother explaining the read...

[Raskolnikov]

"let's just mindlessly lynch VT claims as they have no worth to the game" - u guys

like yea lynching me doesn't draw out any power roles but jesus fuck it's incredibly lazy

I assumed if you scumread persivul it was for wanting to lynch you on this but here you just seem to think it's kinda lazy instead of really scummy.

If you don't think pushing on that logic is scummy after I explained it then what other thing would you be scumreading him from?

[Raskolnikov]

If persivul is scum he's kinda playing to his own detriment because better scum play would be trying to maximize outted claims.

The counter point would be he's being pro-town to get townread EXCEPT that doesn't make much sense either because he should be pretty aware by now that people generally aren't picking up on it and if anything seem to dislike it... I doubt in this example he predicted that I'd come out and back him up on this specific point, and earlier the d1 hammer too he caught flak for but was pretty necessary from a practical point.

[Raskolnikov]

If transcend at least pushed persivul with some drive and seemed like he was making real efforts to convince people, at least I would get the impression he himself really believes in the read.

As is just repeating he's scum and expecting something to happen doesn't do that, on top of it he even feels half hearted doing that (often the real pushes without explanation at least people do it confidently or energetically to the point of annoyance if it really is a strong read).

[Raskolnikov]

So how did persivul scumclaim?

[Raskolnikov]

Vedith was engaging the most in d1 and early d2 and pretty obvtown, only really the last couple of days he was a bit quiet so its not representative

[Raskolnikov]

So I speed-meta'd trans and I think I have an okay grasp of differences. Not feeling this as scum atm.

This is problematic because that seemed like the easiest/simplest solution here.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Pyra

can go back to this

[Raskolnikov]

Potentially overvalued his d1 reaction, mmm

Also @Persivul I'm wondering if you noticed anything in ASP or aristo slot which makes you think they're better than null, I thought I liked ASP a tiny bit but it's pretty low sample size for this point.

[Raskolnikov]

This is kind of awkward because if someone else in my position read-changed on someone after they expressed super townread them I'd sus it.

[Raskolnikov]

So I speed-meta'd trans and I think I have an okay grasp of differences. Not feeling this as scum atm.

Actually this might've been premature, the replacement aspect makes things weird and maybe not entirely comparable

[Raskolnikov]

Aristo literally said he'd read today though at least so I guess taking a bit more deliberation here isn't really that bad

[Raskolnikov]

I know that but it doesn't make him town by default either

[Raskolnikov]

if you didn't scumread persivul who would you look to? Idk if you saw my post about your vedith read.

[Raskolnikov]

Only vedith is voting ari atm, and earlier wagon was to my mind mostly a pressure thing but I legitimately feel some PoE pointing there too

If you remember C14 scum were kind of exposed even d1 before they posted because everyone else seemed to town it up

[Raskolnikov]

Going to be unavailable tomorrow and most of monday, might have time to check in quick in the morning

[Raskolnikov]

Didn't ari say he'd catch up today >__>

[Raskolnikov]

Not much happened this weekend I guess.

[Raskolnikov]

I thought to myself that if ari didn't have something by the time I came back I'd lynch him but still idk.

[Raskolnikov]

So yesterday, day before, etc since the meet ended he's been posting in his other games. Assuming he had to catchup everywhere from having to v/la that long I guess a little delay would be plausible but even then it's been like a week. He explicitly quoted deadline too so he should know the day is kind of ending and there's kind of some urgency especially if he'd want to have any impact on what happens today. Still feels like it'd mostly be policy though.

[Raskolnikov]

Persivul do you think transcend is scum over pyra at this point?
I follow the claim logic, I'm curious though because after transcend claimed VT you voted pyra and said you preferred him.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Transcend

I think I have to do this even if the meta doesn't really point to it, though idk how much a quick skim like that is really worth anyways tbh

Can't really justify lynching/outing potential pr unless I'm fairly confident they're scum, and logically ari player is probably fully NAI if I look past my bias towards lurking.

Even if transcend is the wrong choice here that doesn't even make ari the right one either, misreading one person of this many is pretty possible though it's a bit too late to do anything about that now if that is it...

[Raskolnikov]

When you say you'd essentially tunnel one of my strongest townreads in the game for the foreseeable future it kind of makes it kind of makes it difficult too

[Raskolnikov]

Aristo thought process actually looks okay, can follow it moreso than transcend anyway.

Kinda do just want a hammer at this point, good on him for wanting to use the remaining time, just personally I'm not gonna get much more from today I think.

[Raskolnikov]

Never really noticed this before but singlescum is kinda boring, usually every wagon movement and even read or ongoing association is interesting and you can hardcore speculate about what it means and read into gamestate but it all pretty much kind of means nothing now.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't think this was bussed, but Ari's line of reasoning looking into bussing makes sense from the pov of a slot that was off the wagon even with just through number of slots. If I was looking at the game without reads and assuming a bus I'd then look at those same slots too so it makes sense. I like that each thing seems to follow from the other and it's at least understandable, though due diligence would force checking whether that part is ai.

I remember I did mislynch ari slot once from misreading his meta, one thing that was really weird at the time was how unusually level headed he was being in the situation and to someone misreading/mislynching him on what was kind of bs.

[Raskolnikov]

Whatever. I'll replace out if it means that much to you

Though one thing, if I was scumreading someone and they told me I was useless and to replace out I'd be questioning that for motives and probably wouldn't respond this way but ehh?

[Raskolnikov]

@Vedith what's your read atm on transcend/kop?

[Raskolnikov]

Aristo do you have any opinion on the transcend wagon either?

I'd imagine you be somewhat opposed given he's voting persivul with you?

[Raskolnikov]

Saying you'll hammer if necessary isn't really a value statement

[Raskolnikov]

Probably should've asked these kinds of things yesterday though it seemed like everything was finally active and gonna stay that way

[Raskolnikov]

Oh shit how did we manage to win this game?

[Raskolnikov]

I was cop. I got an innocent on Ari N1. If Transcend wasn't scum, I just needed another inno (or of course a guilty) to win it. So, I wasn't really concerned with scum hunting. I figured I'd survive N2 because, if Transcend was town, his push on me presumably made me look lynchable and rask proabbly would have died.

Suspected you of this inno but also thought maybe someone had a Pyra inno since there was way less talk there today.

[Raskolnikov]

Eh probably

[Raskolnikov]

oh hey there wasn't even a role blocker lol.

i mean yeah my chances at repairing this slot were essentially zero so i just meme'd around the entire time the moment i found out my role pm was red

I was having a really hard time reading you here, but your early claim and pushing of persivul of all people made me force myself to stay on.

If you didn't claim I think aristophanes was a more likely lynch, although then you would have had to block+kill both me and persivul to not get screwed by night actions.

Tracker btw, I didn't get any result from n1 since kop roleblocked me.

[Raskolnikov]

Alright guysssss we got our first scum
Now what?

VOTE: Aristo

You need to explain that to me.

VOTE: Ari

I mean hopefully i can directly engage with Vedith aris and Pyra some more because i make not very much of then rn.

I don't care if you're not a fan.
Vote Ari.

Why not Ari?

Ari can't even look me in the eye right now

I see...good case!

If it's not you it's Rask.
So sell me on Rask.

I demand an explanation!

[Raskolnikov]

I was gonna track kop n1 but assumed that the cop would've if they existed since I just pointed out how scummy he was near end of day, so I choose aristophanes. Ended up being a mistake since persi did check ari, but since I got roleblocked my choice ended up being irrelevant anyways.

[Raskolnikov]

It was a hollow win anyway. We only lynched Gamma because he couldn't defend himself.

Kind of, though gamma emerald is probably the person I'm most familiar with this game (34) so I doubt d1 would've gone differently, maybe some people would've changed their minds on his defense but I'd have hard defended pyra over him and idk who else would've gotten lynched instead (maybe kop lol). I think gamma would still have been put to l-1, if he claimed vt probably lynched, if he claimed pr instead then counterclaimed then lynched. That would have gotten a PR nightkill as a result of CC but I think edosurist scumread kop anyways (and he'd be alive instead of the pr killed) so idk what % chance there is it plays out differently.

If it was more like d2 where there were a bunch of competing wagons then maybe I could see that point more.

[Raskolnikov]

i mean yeah my chances at repairing this slot were essentially zero so i just meme'd around the entire time the moment i found out my role pm was red

I felt this last time I played scum, but most people really don't care about predecessors. I think you were in that game d1 with ironstove and people found him pretty scummy but seemed to mostly forget about it.
Also for a town example I thought shaddowez slot was a bit scummy but persivul changed that too.

[Raskolnikov]

aris wasn't getting lynched, pers would've pushed hard against it.

oh yeah my bad. Forgot about this

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah nvm what I said earlier you probably only would've had a chance if kop lucked out and killed a PR. I wasn't really thinking in terms of the PR power but that's rough.

[Raskolnikov]

I can't fault the edosurist kill though, he definitely seemed quiet and on top of that did appear to scumread kop so it'd have been hard to pick persivul over that.

[Raskolnikov]

Oh yeah this was why the pyra 180 but didn't really wanna say it

Well. Normally I'd be fine with getting lynched as long as it would help cast my posts in a better light, but I haven't really participated at all this game. To be completely honest I'd rather that I be lynched instead of someone actively posting but if it's at all possible I still wouldn't want town to die. I'd defend myself if I had any sort of idea who scum was, but I don't. This game just started at a bad time for me. Normally town getting lynched would at least provide some information but it doesn't seem like the case right now.

this is a without a doubt a super hard vt soft and reads extremely genuine imo. If someone more experienced said it maybe you could suspect AtE, but from a newer player like pyra this top quality AtE while doing something like tactically faking a vt soft as scum is very unlikely.

Also it's kind of a questionable d1 thing from scum because if you do continue to get wagoned it locks you into a vt claim so if get l-1'd you couldn't bait any CCs via pr claim, but that's not as important since it's reverse BoP and unreliable

obviously talking about it isn't that good since there is always a slim chance scum misses these things

[Raskolnikov]

his is a without a doubt a super hard vt soft and reads extremely genuine imo

to clarify, it sounds like he isn't even aware he's softing while doing it and the tone of how he says it is so natural, if not someone very experienced only a "fake" newbie who came from epicmafia or something would do something like this

[Raskolnikov]

Oh lol, I was double conftowned?

No I got roleblocked by kop

[Raskolnikov]

yeah maria is who I was thinking of when I said that lol

[Raskolnikov]

Gamma what happened btw

[Raskolnikov]

you totally siteflaked I was wondering if you'd ever come back