Mini 1666: Dead Thread

[pisskop]

You have fallen victim to the cold war. Make your peace here.

[Drixx]

What a failure on my approach at day start. I wanted to get some reactions and look a

little

scummy; I didn't want to end up being a gigantic eyesore of a distraction. Perhaps it was wrong of me to withhold the full extent of my thoughts, but it started to look like I wasn't going to get lynched, and I've seen first hand the disastrous results of being widely suspected but never quite enough to get lynched and making it into endgame. No way I was about to give the scum team that much free room to play with.

I was a bit amused by how much I got scum read for being sarcastic while RandomActs got a free pass for blatantly telling people to "fuck off" and being outright nasty the entire game, as well as being obviously questionable as hell. Maybe I should spoiler post my post by post breakdown of him for the idiots who thought that calling me a liar was going to incentivize me to do something I felt would drastically lower the chances I got lynched, possibly harm the town by pointing out things the scum team may have missed, and accomplish nothing more than very thoroughly covering the general approaches and specific slips of every player on day one, while also probably resulting in the scum getting to hide behind me for at least another 2 weeks.

Like ... have none of those folks studied decision theory at all?

[pisskop]

Scum is playing pretty well, all things considered. Town is more than willing to let them slide.

[Drixx]

I gave them a free pass in day one, but I suspect that it will be more fruitful than it looks if the town is observant and pays close attention. Whatever strategy the scum team used today will force them to make decisions that will impact whether they can be consistent going forward. Sooner or later, almost all scum make a mistake when it comes to consistency. My biggest regret in screwing up the first day is that I won't be able to work on that part of my town game as much. I'll keep trying to figure it out from the dead thread here but it's not quite the same. Still... I'm pretty comfortable that I did the right thing. I think the town is better off without having me there to be a future distraction; it would have been too easy for an overzealous townie or a clever scum to keep me going as a distraction indefinitely.

[pisskop]

You'll get a kick out it when you figure it out. And they'll hopefully learn that you weren't incredibly scummy. You were the loudest negative feel they had, so they put you out to pasture.

[Drixx]

They almost didn't. I had to actually piss people off to make sure I got lynched.

[pisskop]

N1 is shaping up to prove semi-interesting. I see now why people like modding. Its annoying as shit to watch people waffle around after I know who is going to get lynched (and that its the wrong faction), but N1 is really shaping up to be most . . . interesting.

[Drixx]

Well ... they may not have lynched me, and I wasn't convinced enough that MonkeyMan was actually scum that I thought me staying in the game would at least be offset by something good, ergo me pissing people off by withholding my post by post analysis. I also realized fairly late into the process that it would be potentially super harmful. As much as I was in the dark trying to read people, scum know their team and so interesting notes about town could be huge clues that result in severe harm to the town long before in depth notes of day one could ever help town. Just didn't seem safe.

Mind if I drop in a sample of the draft I have, for the people who didn't realize I was intentionally ensuring my lynch? I was actually annoyed for real that people went so far as to call me a liar about something not strictly a mafia play. Mafia as a game has as a core pillar element deception and so nobody can be viewed as morally or ethically bad/shady for using it. Me working on a detailed draft and asking folks to hold off while I worked on it was not at all a play to try and live, but a genuine thing I worked on before realizing it had the potential to do far more harm than good. I'm nowhere near good enough at this game to figure out the scum team on day one. If I were, what would be the point of playing anymore?

[pisskop]

The issue with poping it into the thread is that if it is of any consequence to the game (i.e. theory, play, or etc) then it could be taken as cheating and/or coded). They'd perfer you didnt do that. You could drop it here and make a thread in mafia discussion about the general topic if you'd like, but you cannot discuss this game there.

[Drixx]

I meant putting it in here for folks to see as they get killed off lol. It's just a bit of pricked pride on my part really.

[pisskop]

Go for it.

[pisskop]

Welcome Monkeyman to the thread. N1 went perfectly ^_^

[Drixx]

What a bizarre kill choice. He was lynch bait for sure today. Killing him just makes the town players go back and look at day 1. That's some pretty big hubris and a gigantic clue as to who scum are. This might be an interesting day.

[Drixx]

Oh hey look ... we have a claimed town PR who breadcrumbed his role in his first post. Could be scum playing for points, but it was the most overt breadcrumb I caught from day one and there's nothing contradictory yet. Day opening is amusing so far.

[Drixx]

So I thought about it, and I suppose an SK killing MonkeyMan makes sense. If the scum kill is a delayed kill or was blocked, it would make sense for the SK to kill someone he thought was scum. The problem with that is why would an SK do that when he was so likely to be today's lynch? The SK has to try and keep scum around long enough that he can pull off the win, so killing someone who was almost certainly gonna be lynched seems like an odd choice. Gonna have to re-think some things. I like puzzles

@MonkeyMan - Sorry I misread you. If you'd like I'll be happy to explain why you came across so scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

Drixx - Sorry for getting you lynched, but it was 1 vs. 1 and I didn't think I'd do much good to my team dead.

I think this is the first time I've been night killed night 1.

I always come across scummy, it's my bane in life:).

[Drixx]

Oh ... I wanted to get lynched. I actively played to ensure it near the end of the day when people started to realize that I wasn't actually scum and that scum reading me for being dismissive and a bit sarcastic was probably not very logically sound on their part. Too many times I've seen someone stick around and be a long term distraction though. There was no way I wanted to stick around given how day 1 went. If this were a large game, maybe I would have tried sticking around and seeing if I could turn it around and stop being a smokescreen ... but in a mini the town cannot afford for scum to have really easy smokescreens to hide behind ... especially not ones that could get set off by other well meaning townies.

You were scummy because you didn't post much of anything as far as your own thoughts went. You also were super defensive and showed up so close to posts made that talked about you and responded that you seemed to be actively watching the game, but not interacting with it other than to defend yourself.

As a fully serious question ... do you really misunderstand what OMGUS refers to?

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes, if you vote someone after they vote you, and you don't have solid town reasoning to do it, then it's OMGUS.

[MonkeyMan576]

@pisskop, what was scum's reasoning for night killing me?

[Drixx]

I was town and the entire game had voted me or stated intent to vote me at one time or another. If that were the definition, it would be impossible for me to say anything that wasn't OMGUS. OMGUS has a few factors:

1.) It includes a vote.
2.) It is generally immediate and has an emotional component, so it almost always shows up as someone immediately voting for someone who just voted for them.
3.) It generally has little to no logical basis

I didn't vote for you. I didn't react to you emotionally nor was it immediate, and I had a logical reason to suspect you.

My definition is not what the wiki says, and nor is yours. I think mine is pretty close to how the term has evolved in usage, although I'll invite the rest of the folks to weigh in on that as they get killed off and show up here.

You can read the wiki entry on it {here} although it is fairly brief and I don't think it really matches with how people have come to view it over time.

[MonkeyMan576]

What do you mean you didn't vote me?

That vote was so poorly reasoned/motivated, it deserves a vote.

VOTE: MonkeyMan576

Please note this isn't an OMGUS because the guy didn't do anything worth the "oh my god you suck" level of response. It was just literally the most obvious case of cherry picking something to give an excuse to vote that I've ever seen.

Just because you say it's not an OMGUS doesn't make it an OMGUS.

[Drixx]

Memory is fickle thing, I suppose. I recalled you claiming I was OMGUSing you when I put you as a scum read on the first reads list I gave. It still remains that OMGUS is something that doesn't have logical reasoning, and I had good logical reason to suspect you. Remember that I knew I was town and you appeared to be selectively lurking and only popping in to respond if someone said something about you.

Read your ISO and pretend it was someone else. How would you read them?

[MonkeyMan576]

I understand your reasoning.

[Drixx]

And here's the first response to your post, with the part directed at another player removed:

Wow ... oppportunistic much? That was me not editing something out that had to do with me being older and some of the things that generational gaps introduce. I decided not to really bring it up because I have no real idea how old anyone in the game is. Obviously when I deleted my original point I didn't completely scrub it from the post. That's why you were able to take a gigantic post and pick out one non sequitur as an excuse to vote.

That's really scummy by the way. Like ... really really scummy.

I would say that you cherry picking and pulling out a few words from a very long post is in fact very good reason to vote you. Scum, as an observable rule, know who each other are. They are therefore obligated to make a narrative for the entire game, pretending to actually "read" people whom they already can be almost certain are town, and can be quite certain are not on their team. This requires them to manipulate what people say in order to make innocent people look guilty. One of the most common tactics in the scum playbook is cherry picking.

It's super confusing to me that you are so invested in hanging onto this idea. You actually went and cherry picked again to try and defend it. I was always town, and I had clear and logically valid reason to view your cherry picking as scummy. Any vote or scum read that has valid reasoning by definition cannot be OMGUS. The whole point of that phrase is to refer to a vote that isn't motivated by anything other than emotion, or feigned emotion when scum use it, since obviously they can't be legitimately offended for being scum read when they are scum.

You say that being read as scummy when you're not is your bane in life, but you reject outright anything someone points out that is scummy, even if it's well reasoned and explained to you. When I first started playing forum mafia years ago, I got read as scum so often when I was town that it was ridiculously frustrating to me. I totally empathize, and I'm trying to help point out where you looked scummy. If you are unwilling to honestly evaluate yourself, then nothing I can possibly say will help you mate. At the end of the day, I totally empathize with what you're saying and I'll be happy to do anything I can to help you on that front, but you gotta be willing to be critical of yourself and question your own assumptions and beliefs. The only way we ever change our behaviors is to first change our minds.

Anyway, I don't see a lot of point in arguing about the definition of an acronym forever. As for me earlier saying I didn't vote you, I was clearly thinking of later in the day phase when I put up the reads.

This post is the one I was thinking of where you popped up immediately to cry OMGUS. I never changed my vote after that post, and it was on RandomActs when I made that post. Memory is indeed an interesting thing. I knew I remembered making a post that made you respond saying it was OMGUS and I knew that said post didn't have a vote and that I never voted you afterward. Hooray for memory! (Although, scientifically speaking, we alter our memories every time we access them ... so no matter how good your memory is, it's always at least a little suspect).

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not hanging onto anything. I said I understood your point of view.

Anyways, I don't see how people are so stupid to think that Soldier isn't scum after he was tracked, yeah, he could be a vig or there could be a doc protection, but most vig's use their ability on day 1 and the odds of a doctor protecting a kill with this many players still alive is low. Odds are Soldier is scum.