STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - REASONABLY RATIONAL HYDRA PT

Varsoon · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:40 pm

You guys can dump lots of insightful text here.
I swear this time I will read it thoroughly. ><

Drixx · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:56 pm

Post draft:

Okay; Cerb is on board with my thoughts.

We have to trigger our ability during climax and the following exposition phase the day will start with the thread locked and the beach-a-polooza event will happen. Everyone will vote and the winner will get to choose in private between three 1-shots:

1.) Passive kill immunity used the next time they get targeted with a kill
2.) Climax usage "gunsmith" check (maybe gunsmith+; they can find out if someone is capable of killing or not)
3.) 1-shot climax usage lightning rod (all abilities re-directed to the winner)

Varsoon will announce the event, how the voting points work and I believe even what the rewards are, but I don't think he will out that we triggered it. There's a really obvious flavor connection if you have watched the show, so we're a little wary of obviously outing our flavor. I asked him to clarify if the votes will be revealed or not.

I've had a bunch of ideas about how best to use this, but I really can't decide whether it would be best to try and co-ordinate getting a specific reward to a specific person. It would be awesome, for example, if we had a Party Host (role that reports everyone that visited it the night it ends up dead) that got the lightning rod, for example.

Best case would be to wind up with the 1-shot in the best possible hands along with potentially catching scum.

Drixx · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:34 pm

Post I want to make:

Okay let me see if I got this straight:

1.) Wagon on NotChara wouldn't budge despite really good reasoning and fairly obvtown first 4 on the wagon, which is a classic warning sign.

2.) We're being wagoned for no actual reason that I can tell, and some of the scummiest players jump right on and nobody bats an eye.

3.) Finally: Fucking TITUS, of all people, is telling you guys that we're obviously town by play, by role and because what we do is so fucking obviously town it hurts and has strong pro-town utility. If you don't realize how fucking BIZARRE it is for Titus to be saying that about us on day one, please come out from whatever rock you've been under and look at her game history and interactions with me and Cerberus. Like ... Cerberus didn't even think it was worth us talking to them to try and maximize the utility of what we do because he didn't think it was possible for them to town read us and be willing to help us with how to do it. So this is Titus pulling a read from ME. This is the same Titus who still insisted I was scum after a cop clear on me in WDPT, and after I was shown to be correct about one of the scum teams being a werewolf (which I outed before anyone could have known except the wolf team because I was immune to them). Like ... the monumental moment it is that Titus FINALLY gets us right, and people are trying to handwave that away?

Mastin is conftown and needs to get the fuck off the crack pipe when it comes to us. I'd bet anyting at least two or three scum are on our wagon already, and the non-scum on our wagon need to remember that conftown doesn't mean confRIGHT.

~D

Reasonably Rational · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:42 pm

Sure, post is fine.

Also, hydra ego.

Drixx · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:05 pm

Another post draft for partner consideration:

Mastin: You don't get to say shit about the original SU game. YOU are the one who made an

incredibly stupid

assumption about something in your role pm and declared to the game that you would be conftown on day 3. That stupidity caused us to have to out ourselves as Steven and play the game totally differently than our planned strategy. If you had bothered to read our hydra PT you would know how much your bullshit and the fact that we had to vouch for you pissed us off.

THEN you proceeded to just disconnect from the game and were basically useless. You got butthurt because we were right on our reads time and time again and the more times we were right, the more you withdrew.

It's a proven observable FACT that we start slow and as we gather information and gain momentum. Our separate games and our hydra game have gotten better, and I think my early game has gotten better more than Cerb's has, but we're still basically the same people with the same approach. We use reliable information to figure things out.

You are literally grasping at straws when it comes to trying to justify your "read" on us at this point: so much so that you outright

LIED

to the game. You haven't played with us when Cerb had his current job, so you have no way to know how it impacts his availability (it's a GIGANTIC fucking impact. I basically can't talk to him outside of his lunch break). The experience you have playing with us was when he worked sitting at a computer all day and could talk to me non stop. If you actually had any reasons, you wouldn't have to lie.

No I gave you your propers earlier in the game and in our alliance chat. You are above the site's long established statistics, but you're not some god. You're right about 50/50, but you're trying to pretend that you have 4 scumreads and all 4 of them are scum? Not even you are delusional enough to believe that. I see two names in there that might be scum, one that there appears to be no basis for any read at all, and us. And we're town. Want to know HOW you should know we're town? Fucking TITUS, of all people, was able to town read us based upon MY play. If you need a refresher on Titus and Me, it's like fucking cats and dogs. Go look at Space Dandy 2; specifically in the PT that we spent most of the game together in.

And for the record, since you claimed ignorance about what's going on with me, even though it's easy info to find if you had taken about 30 seconds: I've got my house packed up and am moving across the country imminently. Unfortunately, I also have a stage 2 pressure sore that I'm managing, and it is bad enough that I had to skip my sister's wedding (the reception for which is just wrapping up as I type this), so I'm spending huge amounts of my time in bed in a position that's not comfortable for me because of my Spinal Injury, in order to let it heal so I can endure the days of driving a moving van to where I'm going, and then I'm certain I'll spend some more time mostly in bed so it's fully healed before I'm back to live lectures in the classroom.

And all of that is stupidly easy to find out because I've stopped playing in the newbie queue (for the first time since I joined the site), stopped modding games (for the first time since I started modding games), am not even working on developing a game (which you know because I asked for your help on it and the timetable I gave would have had you working with me on it before now), and the only games I've been in for months now are ones where I'm in hydra.

Furthermore, you just got done modding a fucking game where I was in hydra and never made a single post apart from my "bah" post.

And as far as I can see, your entire original "reasoning" for pushing us was your gigantic fucking ego. You were doing obvious catch up posts from the start of the game while I was pushing Firebringer and he and I were conversing back and forth. I don't give a fuck what

ANYONE

says; the Firebringer that showed up in this game is NOT behaving or posting like his norm. As soon as you came along and declared we were scum he slipped back into his usual rut and has mostly stayed there since. Go back and read before I started pushing him and his interaction with me, and then read him after YOU jumped in to let him off the hook. There's a notable difference. That tells me I was on to something.

And you know damn well that's how I play early. I'll push if something feels off, get reactions and make people say things, and then I step back and see how things play out. So your claim that I'm somehow playing different is completely fucking bunk, excepting the part about how active I am. I'm like 10% as active as I would like to be.

You are basically conftown, and you're squandering it. Instead of engaging your brain and evaluating things and using your status (and the protection you will obviously have to keep you in the game awhile) to unite the town and get shit done, you're butting heads with Titus and having a fucking ego fit because she has actual reasons and read is correctly while your whole ego bullshit "I know you better than you know yourself cerb" results in you being all butthurt because you're wrong. Adapt, adjust and move the fuck on already. Holy fuck. Conftown != ConfRIGHT.

@Titus - I appreciate that you felt strongly enough about us to share info, but if you were going to share, you should have shared the whole thing. What we do is actually pretty fucking obviously town for multiple reasons. I'm obviously not going to explain it all for scum, but I will elaborate a little more because Mastin assumed the ONLY thing we do is give someone passive kill protection.

WRONG. How about a cop check in a game designed by a mod who hates cops? Yep ... that's a thing that comes from us. Titus already knows this and can confirm. There's more too, but I'll just let that sink in a bit for you Mastin. We went to the person who normally we have gigantic fights with (mostly me and Titus; Cerb doesn't give a shit enough to fight with people for the most part) because she was the best person to help us make the most of what we can do, assuming we could trust her. We knew that because of a specific game where she had an ability that was similar in some ways to ours and she used it to incredible effect. She like ... amplified it and after her ability was used and her plan was done, she named the ENTIRE SCUM TEAM and the two masons as the scum pool.

Get your head out of your ass and get out of confbias. You should be running this town and uniting us to eradicate the scum team. Instead you're having petty fights with what few posts you make and bragging and ego boasting. It would be funny if it wasn't so pitiful. Re-evaluate in light of new info and fucking move on already. Do your job.

~Drixx

P.S. - I still love you Mastin, but when you have to outright lie to justify a read because you have no actual case, it's time to just admit you fucked up and move on. Seriously.

Drixx · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:15 pm

Proofread version with small edits:

Mastin: You don't get to say shit about the original SU game. YOU are the one who made an

incredibly stupid

assumption about something in your role pm and declared to the game that you would be conftown on day 3. That stupidity caused us to have to out ourselves as Steven and play the game totally differently than our planned strategy. If you had bothered to read our hydra PT you would know how much your bullshit and the fact that we had to vouch for you pissed us off.

THEN you proceeded to just disconnect from the game and were basically useless. You got butthurt because we were right on our reads time and time again and the more times we were right, the more you withdrew.

It's a proven observable FACT that we start slow and as we gather information and gain momentum. Our separate games and our hydra game have gotten better, and I think my early game has gotten better more than Cerb's has, but we're still basically the same people with the same approach. We use reliable information to figure things out.

You are literally grasping at straws when it comes to trying to justify your "read" on us at this point: so much so that you outright

LIED

to the game. You haven't played with us when Cerb had his current job, so you have no way to know how it impacts his availability (it's a GIGANTIC fucking impact. I basically can't talk to him outside of his lunch break). The experience you have playing with us was when he worked sitting at a computer all day and could talk to me non stop. If you actually had any reasons, you wouldn't have to lie.

Now I gave you your propers earlier in the game and in our alliance chat. You are above the site's long established statistics, but you're not some god. You're right about 50/50, but you're trying to pretend that you have 4 scumreads and all 4 of them are scum? Not even you are delusional enough to believe that. I see two names in there that might be scum, one that there appears to be no basis for any read at all, and us. And we're town. Want to know HOW you should know we're town? Fucking TITUS, of all people, was able to town read us based upon MY play. If you need a refresher on Titus and Me, it's like fucking cats and dogs. Go look at Space Dandy 2; specifically in the PT that we spent most of the game together in.

And for the record, since you claimed ignorance about what's going on with me, even though it's easy info to find if you had taken about 30 seconds: I've got my house packed up and am moving across the country imminently. Unfortunately, I also have a stage 2 pressure sore that I'm managing, and it is bad enough that I had to skip my sister's wedding (the reception for which is just wrapping up as I type this), so I'm spending huge amounts of my time in bed in a position that's not comfortable for me because of my Spinal Injury, in order to let it heal so I can endure the days of driving a moving van to where I'm going, and then I'm certain I'll spend some more time mostly in bed so it's fully healed before I'm back to live lectures in the classroom.

And all of that is stupidly easy to find out because I've stopped playing in the newbie queue (for the first time since I joined the site), stopped modding games (for the first time since I started modding games), am not even working on developing a game (which you know because I asked for your help on it and the timetable I gave would have had you working with me on it before now), and the only games I've been in for months now are ones where I'm in hydra.

Furthermore, you just got done modding a fucking game where I was in hydra and never made a single post apart from my "bah" post.

And as far as I can see, your entire original "reasoning" for pushing us was your gigantic fucking ego. You were doing obvious catch up posts from the start of the game while I was pushing Firebringer and he and I were conversing back and forth. I don't give a fuck what

ANYONE

says; the Firebringer that showed up in this game is NOT behaving or posting like his norm. As soon as you came along and declared we were scum he slipped back into his usual rut and has mostly stayed there since. Go back and read before I started pushing him and his interaction with me, and then read him after YOU jumped in to let him off the hook. There's a notable difference. That tells me I was on to something. But you had your fragile little ego bruised because I didn't stop what I was doing and engage with you, with what little time I had. That's frankly pathetic.

And you know damn well that's how I play early. I'll push if something feels off, get reactions and make people say things, and then I step back and see how things play out. So your claim that I'm somehow playing different is completely fucking bunk, excepting the part about how active I am. I'm like 10% as active as I would like to be.

You are basically conftown, and you're squandering it. Instead of engaging your brain and evaluating things and using your status (and the protection you will obviously have to keep you in the game awhile) to unite the town and get shit done, you're butting heads with Titus and having a fucking ego fit because she has actual reasons and read us correctly while your whole ego bullshit "I know you better than you know yourself cerb" results in you being all butthurt because you're wrong. Adapt, adjust and move the fuck on already. Holy fuck. Conftown != ConfRIGHT.

@Titus - I appreciate that you felt strongly enough about us to share info, but if you were going to share, you should have shared the whole thing. What we do is actually pretty fucking obviously town for multiple reasons. I'm obviously not going to explain it all for scum, but I will elaborate a little more because Mastin assumed the ONLY thing we do is give someone passive kill protection.

WRONG. How about a cop check in a game designed by a mod who hates cops? Yep ... that's a thing that comes from us. Titus already knows this and can confirm. There's more too, but I'll just let that sink in a bit for you Mastin. We went to the person who normally we have gigantic fights with (mostly me and Titus; Cerb doesn't give a shit enough to fight with people for the most part) because she was the best person to help us make the most of what we can do, assuming we could trust her. We knew that because of a specific game where she had an ability that was similar in some ways to ours and she used it to incredible effect. She like ... amplified it and after her ability was used and her plan was done, she named the ENTIRE SCUM TEAM and the two masons as the scum pool.

Get your head out of your ass and get out of confbias. You should be running this town and uniting us to eradicate the scum team. Instead you're having petty fights with what few posts you make and bragging and ego boasting. It would be funny if it wasn't so pitiful. Re-evaluate in light of new info and fucking move on already. Do your job.

~Drixx

P.S. - I still love you Mastin, but when you have to outright lie to justify a read because you have no actual case, it's time to just admit you fucked up and move on. Seriously.

Reasonably Rational · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:57 am

There's something we need to establish.

There is a crystal gems faction and they are third party. They are likely able to win with town(though we can't be sure until one flips) but they are NOT town.

Spoiler: Why we believe this

TOWN NEEDS TO STOP AND REASSESS THE GAME AND INTERACTIONS WITH THIS KNOWLEDGE.

Spoiler: Implications

TL;DR: There is a Crystal Gem Faction which we believe likely wins with town, and this faction almost certainly has a PT. Because of this, any and all pre-flip associations need to be examined rigorously, because they could just as easily be the work of what is effectively(though not precisely) a large masonry, as the work of scum.

Drixx · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:35 am

Session Start: Mon Sep 05 00:14:04 2016
Session Ident: #su2
03[00:14] * Now talking in #su2
03[00:14] * Topic is ''
[00:14] <drixx> @drixx has joined the channel
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Alright, so the whole scum team are the five rubies who are in season 3
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> who steven named
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> our role allows us to permanently roleblock someone
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> after they stop being in an alliance with us
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> or rather, if they choose to ally with someone else
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> after having been allied to us the day prior
[00:15] <cerberus_v6.66> so, we ally with player A on N1, on N2 they choose someone else to ally with, we may roleblock them WITHOUT USING OUR ACTION, so we can still submit the kill, and then all nights after that we may use our action to continue the block.
[00:16] <cerberus_v6.66> so after the season finale, we can double block people...but this would of course be very suspicious.
01[00:26] <Drixx> just need to use it in a confusing way
01[00:26] <Drixx> and engage with it
01[00:26] <Drixx> run in circles trying to figure out what's going on
01[00:27] <Drixx> instead of killing PRs we can randonly fuck with them
[00:29] <cerberus_v6.66> basically
[00:29] <cerberus_v6.66> we sort of don't want the connection to us to be revealed though
[00:30] <cerberus_v6.66> since it's easily possible that the pattern of "used to be allied to RR, now their actions always fail" could be a problme
[00:30] <cerberus_v6.66> although
[00:30] <cerberus_v6.66> you know
[00:30] <cerberus_v6.66> we can claim it
[00:30] <cerberus_v6.66> eh
[00:30] <cerberus_v6.66> never mind
[00:31] <cerberus_v6.66>
[00:31] <cerberus_v6.66> the climax events and such is a bit confusing
[00:31] <cerberus_v6.66> having trouble parsing it all
[00:31] <cerberus_v6.66> our event is pretty simple and we should basically do it asap imo
[00:32] <cerberus_v6.66> have you checked the scum pt/our roel card?
01[02:00] <Drixx> not yet
01[13:51] <Drixx> no reason not to do our event
01[13:51] <Drixx> it moves the meter towards tragic outcome though
[13:52] <cerberus_v6.66> We can't do out event until the meter is at least +1
[13:52] <cerberus_v6.66> Or -1? Don't remember, but yeah
[13:52] <cerberus_v6.66> We can't use it D1
[13:53] <cerberus_v6.66> But we should totally use it asap
[13:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Problem is determinf how we want to use it
[13:54] <cerberus_v6.66> Normally, I would discuss the pros and cons of it in advance
[13:54] <cerberus_v6.66> Noting that scum can work together to throw the vote somewhere, so we should decide in advance who we're going to be supporting to make sure the scum choice isn't selected
01[13:57] <Drixx> I thought the stress +1 was telling us what our event would DO to the meter
[13:58] <cerberus_v6.66> no, that's the prerequisite for activating it.
01[13:58] <Drixx> Hi Varsoon,
01[13:58] <Drixx> These two rules seem to contradict one another:
01[13:58] <Drixx> You may not quote private topic or other out-of-game discussion (such as Hydra chats) in the public game thread, regardless of if the quotes are real or fabricated. Paraphrasing is acceptable.
01[13:58] <Drixx> You can always copy and paste the full content of your own posts (outside of moderator communication) so long as it does not contain any links to where it came from or any timestamps.
01[13:58] <Drixx> Does this mean that I can cut and paste from our hydra PT and post so long as it's not time stamped?
01[13:58] <Drixx> Love and
01[13:58] <Drixx> Drixx
01[13:58] <Drixx> since we're a hydra, our hydra discussion is technially the "posts" of a single player slot
01[13:59] <Drixx> and it could be super helpful for you to be able to quote something I said once I go dark and am on the road
[14:01] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm pretty sure he doesn't mind us copying from our hydra PTs. They're a special case. I mean, we use them to compose posts all the time so I can't imagine that would be a problem?
01[14:07] <Drixx> just clarifying
01[14:07] <Drixx> better to know for sure what he will allow than to err on the wrong side
01[14:07] <Drixx> also ... I feel like we need to lower stress so we can do Message Received at climax 3
01[14:08] <Drixx> and follow that by The Cluster at climax 4
01[14:08] <Drixx> that would be ideal usage I think
01[14:08] <Drixx> and we actively want to keep the kills low to make reaching the cumulative score harder
[14:09] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't think it's possible for us to do that
[14:10] <cerberus_v6.66> message I was thinking the same thing as you but look at the requirements and the way they affect the meter
01[14:10] <Drixx> message requires us to be at -1 or lower stress and has to happen before the cluster
01[14:10] <Drixx> the cluster can only happen during a season finale
01[14:11] <Drixx> it's priority 1
01[14:11] <Drixx> and has no meter requirement
01[14:11] <Drixx> it simply will townside the meter basically fully if it fails
01[14:11] <Drixx> if it succeeds, the top two players in terms of giving points towards trying to stop it just instantly die
01[14:11] <Drixx> and if nobody submits any points, we choose who dies
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> SEARCH FOR JASPER: Exposition Event. Activated during the Climax Phase.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Can be triggered after Episode 4, requires +2 Stress or higher.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Priority 1 Event.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Flavor is tied to the Episode, 'Hit the Diamond'.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Returns two pieces of information scanned from the wagon that ends in a lynch:
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> 1. How many 'Gem' characters were on the lynch,
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> 2. If Jasper was on the Lynch.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Lowers Stress by 2, towards Slice of Life.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> KEEPING IT TOGETHER: Climax Event. Triggered during the Climax Phase.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Can be triggered after Episode 1, requires -1 Stress or lower.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Can not be triggered during a Season Finale.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Priority 1 Event.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Flavor is tied to the Episodes, 'Keeping it Together' and 'Nightmare Hospital'.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> All alliances fail to form.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Any players who would have retained an Alliance from the previous phase now instead take one less vote to lynch for the following Episode.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Adds +3 Stress, towards Tragic Destiny.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> MESSAGE RECEIVED: Climax Event. Triggered during the Climax Phase.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Can be triggered at any time, requires -1 Stress or lower.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Priority 1 Event.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Flavor is tied to 'It Could Have Been Great.'
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> It becomes public knowledge that The Cluster may awaken and destroy Earth.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Players may forego taking Climax actions to add a point to a cumulative, hidden score.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> If both Players in an Alliance forego their Climax actions, they add 3 points to this score.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Players are told that if the score does not reach a high enough point by the upcoming Season Finale, there will be several deaths.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Adds +4 Stress, towards Tragic Destiny.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> THE CLUSTER: Climax Event. Triggered during the Exposition Phase.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Can be triggered only as a Season Finale Event, requires -3 Stress or lower, 'MESSAGE RECEIVED' must have been triggered.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Priority 1 Event.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Flavor is tied to the Episode, 'Gem Drill'.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> If the players have culminated points equal to the total of non-scum members left alive, then this event fails.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> In the case that this event fails, subtract -6 Stress, towards Slice of Life.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> In the case that this even succeeds, the top two players in the pool of those who submitted points towards 'MESSAGE RECEIVED' will die.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> In the case of a tie, break first to the most recent point-submitter, then to a Gem, then to the player with the least amount of text on their rolecard.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> In the case that no player submitted any points, the scum team may choose who to kill.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> REMOTE DETONATOR: Can be triggered at any time.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> No Stress Requirement. Requires that a player has flavor-claimed in the game thread.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Priority 0. Can be triggered at any time, does not invalidate other events.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Flavor is tied to the Episode 'Message Received'.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> By submitting a quote of a player's claimed flavor name, you may instantly kill that player.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> If the claimed flavor is incorrect, the player survives, but this event does not take place and is refunded.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> If this kill fails for any reason otherwise, this event takes place and is not refunded.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Increases Stress by 1 towards Tragic Destiny.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> RETURN TO EARTH: Exposition Event. Triggered during the Climax Phase.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Requires -2 Stress or lower. Requires at least one scum member to have died, or 'Search for Jasper' to have been triggered.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Can only be triggered during a Season Finale.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Flavor is tied to the Episodes 'Back to the Moon' and 'Bubbled'.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Only players in Alliances may vote or take actions.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> If the Exposition ends on a scum lynch, the scum team gains an extra kill for the Climax phase.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> If the Exposition ends on a town lynch, the entire scumteam is forced to commute for the Climax phase.
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> the cluster requries -3 stress or lower
01[14:13] <Drixx> I didn't need all that, holy fuck
01[14:13] <Drixx> I was looking at the scum thread
[14:13] <cerberus_v6.66> I needed it! because it's easier to read for me right here.
01[14:14] <Drixx> you could have just said "read line 2 more closely"
[14:14] <cerberus_v6.66> no no
[14:14] <cerberus_v6.66> I wanted it all for me to look at
[14:14] <cerberus_v6.66> to examine the interactions
[14:14] <cerberus_v6.66> without the shitty background
[14:14] <cerberus_v6.66> the cluster is a weird thing though
01[14:14] <Drixx> okay so the meter has to be at -1, then we add +4 to do message received
01[14:14] <Drixx> which is required
[14:14] <cerberus_v6.66> the way it's all phrased....
01[14:15] <Drixx> the cluster is 2 extra kills but the more people who are dead, the easier town will stop the cluster from happening
[14:15] <cerberus_v6.66> every night phase people can skip
[14:15] <cerberus_v6.66> so, we do want it to happen as soon as possible before
[14:15] <cerberus_v6.66> but we need to do -6 worth of stress
[14:15] <cerberus_v6.66> immediately after it
[14:15] <cerberus_v6.66> for that ot be possible
01[14:15] <Drixx> so we want -1 stress ASAP
01[14:16] <Drixx> to trigger message received
01[14:16] <Drixx> probably can't rely on getting -6 stress in one phase in order to trigger them back to back
[14:16] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[14:16] <Drixx> so town will get at least two climaxes to try and stop it
01[14:16] <Drixx> need to see what we can do, combined, to lower stress
01[14:17] <Drixx> this is a thing that we should already be planning in scum thread
[14:18] <cerberus_v6.66> okay, so
[14:18] <cerberus_v6.66> full disclosure
[14:18] <cerberus_v6.66> that reduces stress to 0
[14:19] <cerberus_v6.66> hmm
[14:19] <cerberus_v6.66> this is hard
[14:19] <cerberus_v6.66> the only way to manipulate stress that we have are full disclosur
[14:19] <cerberus_v6.66> our factional events
[14:19] <cerberus_v6.66> and killing town
[14:19] <cerberus_v6.66> killing town moves the meter the wrong direction I think
[14:21] <cerberus_v6.66> dead town equals +1 stress. Dead scum equals -2 stress
01[14:22] <Drixx> can I tell Grapes that we'll ally with him if he promises not to screw up the gamestate if we get it to 100% town win probability again?
[14:22] <cerberus_v6.66> lol
01[14:22] <Drixx> or would that be a little too on the nose?
[14:22] <cerberus_v6.66> are you completely caught up?
[14:22] <cerberus_v6.66> cause I already told the beeboy/titus hydra that we'd ally with them, but I also said I was doing it all without your approval.
[14:23] <cerberus_v6.66> and I already noted it a little bit, by using his post to remind everyone that they should claim NU stuff..
[14:28] <cerberus_v6.66> bleh yeha
[14:28] <cerberus_v6.66> I just went through all our stuff
[14:28] <cerberus_v6.66> we don't have powers that reduce stress
[14:30] <cerberus_v6.66> except search for jasper and the cluster
[14:30] <cerberus_v6.66> and neither of those are usable until later in the game
[14:30] <cerberus_v6.66> :-/
01[14:30] <Drixx> so it's a "shut down town night actions or get 2 town kills" utility in case we get crushed early
01[14:31] <Drixx> it's only there in case shit starts out horribly for scum
[14:35] <cerberus_v6.66> ya
[14:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Honestly, the events are all really interesting, but none of the factional ones are going to be used except in response to town doing things to help themselves through their events
[14:37] <cerberus_v6.66> barring deaths on our part
[14:38] <cerberus_v6.66> with 5+1 traitor, 25 slots in the game, do you think there will be a 3p?
[14:38] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm not really sure
01[14:38] <Drixx> what's the veggiewoman thing?
01[14:39] <Drixx> also I really do want to be like "oh hey Grapes! Don't pull a Grapes this game please!"
01[14:39] <Drixx> but that would be mean
01[14:39] <Drixx> and you were already pointing out that he didn't play any of the big games since the SU fuckup
01[14:39] <Drixx> so now I'm not going to be snide
01[14:39] <Drixx> which might get us caught because some people are going to wonder why I don't give grapes shit to his face when I've referenced his terrible decision in a few others games to try and show town players how bad they were playing
01[14:40] <Drixx> so I fel like most people who know me would expect me to say something
01[14:40] <Drixx> bleh
01[14:40] <Drixx> fuck it. I'm not scum. I'm not going to worry about being scum.
01[14:40] <Drixx> I'll just repeat that to myself for awhile
01[14:44] <Drixx> holy shit
01[14:44] <Drixx> SirCakez has the most town ability ever
[14:48] <cerberus_v6.66> lol. You can ponit it out to him if you want
[14:49] <cerberus_v6.66> but as any alignment, I would tell you that it's kinda mean since he DID admit to fucking up
[14:49] <cerberus_v6.66> in the game itself
[14:49] <cerberus_v6.66> not like he was an ass who insisted he absolutely did the right thing.
[14:50] <cerberus_v6.66> and yes, cakez' powers are all super town
01[14:58] <Drixx> side note: you will learn to love eggs and onions from my cooking.
01[14:59] <Drixx> Just prepare for it. I do stuff with eggs and onions that you are going to be like "what the fuck? I HATE eggs and onions, but this shit is LIT!"
01[15:01] <Drixx> Rules Clarification:
01[15:01] <Drixx> Varsoon wrote:
01[15:01] <Drixx> You can't use quotes as they are usually used on-site because they have links and timestamps and also because doing so can lead to situations where players may unfairly just quotedump other players' text.
01[15:01] <Drixx> You can copy/paste the content of YOUR OWN posts so long as it doesn't have links timestamps, but, again, please don't abuse this leniency.
01[15:01] <Drixx> The reason I'm asking is because, as you know, Cerb and I often will craft posts in parts with each other and we dump that stuff as logs into our PT.
01[15:01] <Drixx> When I go dark because I'll be on the road and without internet, he may need to quote something I said and I want to make sure that as long as it's not timestamped it will be okay for him to do that.
01[15:01] <Drixx> From: Varsoon
01[15:01] <Drixx> To: Drixx
01[15:01] <Drixx> In that case, I'll rule it is fine so long as it doesn't go against the spirit of the game. Which is to say, in almost all cases, I'll allow it.
[15:03] <cerberus_v6.66> cool
01[15:03] <Drixx> OMG you set our board style to something hideous
[15:03] <cerberus_v6.66> ...
[15:03] <cerberus_v6.66> it's been like this for a year
[15:03] <cerberus_v6.66> or something close to it
[15:03] <cerberus_v6.66>
[15:04] <cerberus_v6.66> and you can change it, it was set to that for mobile usage
[15:04] <cerberus_v6.66> so when I was on my phone it wouldn't be irritating to hit links
[15:04] <cerberus_v6.66> since the majority of my posting was done via phone
01[15:07] <Drixx> did we submit an alliance request to OWK yet?
[15:09] <cerberus_v6.66> nope, noet yet
[15:09] <cerberus_v6.66> (I'm excited for the reversal of SU btw)
[15:10] <cerberus_v6.66> No
[15:10] <cerberus_v6.66> change the theme
01[15:10] <Drixx> I put us on sepia
[15:10] <cerberus_v6.66> okay
[15:10] <cerberus_v6.66> that's better
01[15:10] <Drixx> you must have refreshed when I was seeing what tiger looked like
[15:11] <cerberus_v6.66> I just saw it on that tiger monstrosity
01[15:11] <Drixx> that shit was like eye bleeding
[15:11] <cerberus_v6.66> word
01[15:11] <Drixx> so I had a couple of things I wanted to accomplish with that post I made
[15:12] <cerberus_v6.66> oh, you have objectives with your posts?
[15:12] <cerberus_v6.66> I just sorta talk
[15:12] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[15:12] <Drixx> I specifically wanted to be critiqueing Titus in a pro-town way, which is going to make her think that I'm still holding her to a higher standard and will make her lean towards town reading me
[15:12] <cerberus_v6.66> that's not true, the first post I made had an objective, to specifically mention jaspar in hopes that jaspar will notice it and respond somehow.
01[15:13] <Drixx> I also wanted to specifically note that revealing flavor info is BAD this game, which is a pro-town move and actually runs counter to what we want as scum, so later on when people realize that claiming flavor led to bad things, we should get net positive read because of the way I went about it by going after Titus for her obvious crumb
01[15:13] <Drixx> and finally I soft crumbed vig
[15:13] <cerberus_v6.66> why did you do that?
[15:14] <cerberus_v6.66> I did notice that part
01[15:14] <Drixx> even though we are not a vig, we can possibly take credit for a kill by using flavor name if the person is being scum read by town players
01[15:14] <Drixx> so it won't appear like extra scum kill
[15:14] <cerberus_v6.66> fair enough
01[15:14] <Drixx> and we can point to that and say we had a vig shot and keep town in the dark
01[15:14] <Drixx> there's reason to believe we may have a gunsmith like role in the game
[15:14] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't think we *want* to do that
[15:14] <cerberus_v6.66> well
01[15:14] <Drixx> so we now have a plausible thing to point to if we need to
01[15:14] <Drixx> we want to use the extra kill when we can
[15:15] <cerberus_v6.66> we 100% have at least one gunsmith check available
[15:15] <cerberus_v6.66> from our event
[15:15] <cerberus_v6.66> if nothing else
01[15:15] <Drixx> ideally we can use it against a player who is being read as scummy
01[15:15] <Drixx> then we "confirm" my crumb, have a reason to show up as having a gun and use our "vig shot" to take out a player we thought was scum
[15:15] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't relaly think we want to claim a kill like that though unless we have to
01[15:15] <Drixx> all of which flows into the narrative of we're town playing
[15:15] <cerberus_v6.66> simply because there's also cause to believe there's a role cop somewhere
[15:16] <cerberus_v6.66> and if we get checked and don't have a kill, then it's a guilty
[15:16] <cerberus_v6.66> while our role as it stands isn't scum in and of itself
01[15:16] <Drixx> I'm just setting up possibilities
[15:16] <cerberus_v6.66> ya
01[15:16] <Drixx> little trap doors we can use if we need to
01[15:16] <Drixx> and doing so in a natural way
01[15:16] <Drixx> that's exactly a post I would make as town
01[15:16] <Drixx> I chided Titus (it's well known she and I have an ongoing disagreement)
01[15:17] <Drixx> I also despise players being harassed because they are different or new
01[15:17] <Drixx> and some people will read that as a vig crumb
01[15:17] <Drixx> and yes... I do this when I play alone
01[15:17] <Drixx> and I realized that I don't usually tell you when I'm making a post with multiple purposes
01[15:17] <Drixx> but it would be good for you to know
01[15:18] <Drixx> so as much as possible this game, I'll let you know what my intent is
01[15:18] <Drixx> as scum, I play in such a way that someone reading my ISO will never see a contradiction. I will not appear to be telling a story and then have to make some really obvious change in direction or whatever
[15:26] <cerberus_v6.66> Good
01[16:52] <Drixx> Firebringer ... should I go after him and take him down for "trying to look like town"?
01[16:52] <Drixx> or just ignore him?
[16:54] <cerberus_v6.66> I would just ignore him, but you may do as you please.
01[17:46] <Drixx> I was going to be snarky in response to farside asking why we didn't want to ally with them
01[17:47] <Drixx> and point out that the entire game was scum reading them but we showed that they were town just before {Redacted} hammered them, which resulted in town loss
01[17:47] <Drixx> and then ask why she thought we needed to ally them when we clearly will be able to sort them without doing so
01[17:47] <Drixx> but I like farside, so I didn't do that
01[17:49] <Drixx> Yume is a Jeanne alt right?
[19:01] <cerberus_v6.66> Yep, Yume is Jeanne
[20:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Hmm, we're making things *very* difficult for town trying to read is
[20:43] <cerberus_v6.66> *us*
[20:44] <cerberus_v6.66> Since our interactions have been super different.
[20:44] <cerberus_v6.66> Was my list of people I was willing to ally with reasonable?
[20:45] <cerberus_v6.66> I basically used the exact criteria I used when I explained it to Farside. Peoples I've played with and know really well and talk a lot, and people who I've played with who are impossible to sort and just lurk till late game
[20:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Skybird and foxbird need to figure out a way to disentangle from their current planned alliance and let skybird ally with someone else
[20:47] <cerberus_v6.66> Since she can find the crystal gems for us, and thus enable her extra power.
[20:56] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, umm...I sorta completely disagree with your interpretation of what Chara was saying, like idk it doesn't feel like a reasonable interpretation
Session Time: Tue Sep 06 00:00:01 2016
01[16:44] <Drixx> I would lean towards firebringer being the traitor
01[16:44] <Drixx> would be nice to be able to freaking recruit him
[16:45] <cerberus_v6.66> Ya. We don't know rhe mechanics for that. We'll just have to use our power to confirm it's him.
[16:46] <cerberus_v6.66> The thing we need to figure out with our event is not whether it nit we use it
[16:47] <cerberus_v6.66> But whether or not we claim it, and coordinate it with town...or just do it.
01[16:47] <Drixx> since we won't be able to remote detonate whomever we find the info on ... might as well claim it and ask our "townreads" for advice on how to direct people
01[16:47] <Drixx> it would be good to loop Titus into this
01[16:48] <Drixx> remind her of the game where we were masons and she did that thread lock thing and found scum with it (which was absurd because what kind of scum gets caught by that trap?)
01[16:48] <Drixx> so be cryptic
01[16:48] <Drixx> be like ... "Remember X game Titus? We can do what you did there. Could use your thoughts on how to do it to best effect"
01[16:48] <Drixx> or more subtle if you can figure a way
01[16:54] <Drixx> I could do it if you want
[16:54] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm working
01[16:54] <Drixx> "Hey Titus; you know that game I thought you should have gotten paragon for? We can do something very similar this game. Sooner is better than later right? Any thoughts on who to have people target"
[16:54] <cerberus_v6.66> And I don't know if we'd rather coordinate with all of town and openly claim it
01[16:54] <Drixx> she would pick up what I mean on that right?
[16:55] <cerberus_v6.66> Or just clue her and kc in on it
01[16:56] <Drixx> I think it will ring as much more town oriented play if we just bring in Titus on it
01[16:57] <Drixx> I'm taking advantage of the fact that I've had long conversations with her about how she managed to do that and asking for help
01[16:57] <Drixx> so I think it won't strike her as buddying but me actually wanting to see how to synergize without letting too many people realize what's up
01[16:58] <Drixx> and I know you're working
01[16:58] <Drixx> I just want your thumbs up to run with it
01[16:59] <Drixx> also, after you get done working please remind me... I want to see if you guys can fabricate a couple parts for my wheelchair which endure a lot of stress and keep breaking when made of molded aluminum. A harder material crafted differently could probably take the stresses.
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Run it by our team as well? I'm going to be pretty busy tonight too actually, so not sure how much input I can give.
01[18:40] <Drixx> do you approve of my thinking?
01[18:40] <Drixx> our abiltiy is very similar to what Titus had in that game
01[18:41] <Drixx> so I think town us would try and get her help with it
[18:42] <cerberus_v6.66> I just don't see what town reason we'd have for not just telling wvetying to ensure the gunsmith etc ended up in the right hands.
[18:42] <cerberus_v6.66> For example, there could easily be someone who is mechanically optimal
01[18:42] <Drixx> because we watched Titus use a similar thing to synergize town effectiveness AND catch scum
01[18:43] <Drixx> and I've talked with her about that more than once and talked about what made her realize she could do that
[18:43] <cerberus_v6.66> I'd think we'd want to achieve that
[18:43] <cerberus_v6.66> If you do it, it'll be believable
[18:43] <cerberus_v6.66> I would not do it alone.
01[18:43] <Drixx> a town!us would want Titus to help us use this to max effectiveness
01[18:43] <Drixx> if you're cool with me playing the gambit I'll do it
01[18:43] <Drixx> and I won't talk to the team about it because if they don't know the background they are less likely to screw with it
[18:44] <cerberus_v6.66> Ya, I'm cool with it...
[18:44] <cerberus_v6.66> I'd warn them at least.nm
[18:44] <cerberus_v6.66> Idk
01[18:44] <Drixx> I am going to tell them that I'm going to run a gambit
01[18:44] <Drixx> concerning using our ability
[18:45] <cerberus_v6.66> K
Session Time: Wed Sep 07 00:00:00 2016
[02:25] <cerberus_v6.66> I feel like everyone you're pushing is a massive stretch
[02:25] <cerberus_v6.66> FB=stretch(but he may actually be scum, but still, the thing you were doing with him was lul)
[02:26] <cerberus_v6.66> the "slip" = stretch
01[15:39] <Drixx> [01:46] <cerberusv6.66> Yo
01[15:39] <Drixx> [01:47] <cerberusv6.66> Did you send in our alliance choice and decision to activate our event?
01[15:39] <Drixx> [02:26] <cerberusv6.66> Finally home if you're around...
01[15:39] <Drixx> [08:54] <cerberusv6.66> Good morning. I sent in our ally request, but I did not activate our power since I have no idea what we should do now since you started talking to Titus about it. Our deadline for a decision on this is in an hour though.
01[15:39] <Drixx> [09:57] <cerberusv6.66> So..I guess we're not doing it then.
01[15:39] <Drixx> [11:02] <cerberusv6.66> Do we have a reason for townreading Titus enough to actually share this with her?
01[15:39] <Drixx> [11:02] <cerberusv6.66> This feels like we're making the same mistake she did in SU, that of trusting without sufficient cause.
01[15:39] <Drixx> [15:05] <cerberusv6.66> Around?
01[15:39] <Drixx> [15:06] <cerberusv6.66> Also, we can no longer use our event, because the stress has dropped. It needs to increase by 2.
01[15:40] <Drixx> no I didn't send in the alliance choice because you played that part completely by yourself without even talking to me, and someone realized that your choices didn't make sense and started pushing us for it and I told him he was a moron and that we talk about EVERYTHING and just because HE doesn't understand our motives doesn't mean he gets to just make shit up
[15:40] <cerberus_v6.66> Thanks!
01[15:40] <Drixx> when in fact I have no fucking idea what the motive was
01[15:40] <Drixx> also
01[15:40] <Drixx> we're not making a mistake
[15:40] <cerberus_v6.66> My choices make complete sense
01[15:40] <Drixx> I haven't trusted Titus beyond a very cryptic message
[15:40] <cerberus_v6.66> They're the exact people I'd want to ally for thr exact criteria which I gave
01[15:40] <Drixx> when we have the ally chat I'm going to basically ask her to town tell
01[15:41] <Drixx> I'm not going to just blurt shit out
01[15:41] <Drixx> I'm going to be like "Look ... the odds are that you're town but I don't want to just blurt this out; help us get through the sniffing each other's assess stage so we can work out how to catch scum with this"
01[15:41] <Drixx> and I'm going to be really non specific about what we do
01[15:42] <Drixx> the whole point of the exercise is to put her in the position where she feels the need to obvtown to us
[15:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Okay
[15:43] <cerberus_v6.66> I really dislike that the gambit cost us our early game power usage
01[15:45] <Drixx> didn't expect to swing from stress +1 to stress -1 at the end of the pre-game
01[15:45] <Drixx> but please tell me how and why I should have expected that and it would therefore be my fault
01[15:46] <Drixx> also ... I push stretches in the early game
[15:46] <cerberus_v6.66> It's your fault that we didn't clearly establish if we would use the power or not.
[15:46] <cerberus_v6.66> like, everything we had talked about said use it
[15:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Including our entire team...and then titus suggested don't use it
[15:47] <cerberus_v6.66> Or rather, the interaction required we not use it
[15:47] <cerberus_v6.66> And you disappeared instead of making a decision there
[15:47] <cerberus_v6.66> And then you disappeared instead of making a decision there.
[15:48] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm more irritated that there was a decision to be made about our powers with a clearly defined deadline and you weren't around to assist me with making that decision. :/
01[15:49] <Drixx> Ummm... I really didn't expect the end of pre-game phase to feature a stress swing
01[15:49] <Drixx> if it did, that implies someone shot off an event?
[15:50] <cerberus_v6.66> Yes
01[15:50] <Drixx> and if they did, would ours even have gone off?
[15:50] <cerberus_v6.66> Yes
[15:50] <cerberus_v6.66> Ours is priority 0
01[15:50] <Drixx> like... this is way more than "Fuck you for going to sleep at 2am"
[15:50] <cerberus_v6.66> It can coexist
01[15:50] <Drixx> like I saw your message last night
01[15:50] <Drixx> asking if I had put in the ally request
01[15:50] <Drixx> which greatly amused me since you chose and finalized our ally without even talking to me
01[15:50] <Drixx> not that I'm not okay with the choice
01[15:50] <Drixx> it's risk and reward with Titus
[15:51] <cerberus_v6.66> Anyways, I should have mentioned thr stress swing possibility
[15:51] <cerberus_v6.66> As part of why I wanted to use it
[15:51] <cerberus_v6.66> But I sort of assumed you would be aware of that risk
[15:51] <cerberus_v6.66> And had accounted for it
[15:51] <cerberus_v6.66> Since all the powers we can see that have stress threshold and stress effects
[15:52] <cerberus_v6.66> Move things in the opposite direction..so a negative threshold means a positive move, and vice versa...therefore with a positive stress level, if anyone used anything it was more likely to remove that positive stress.
01[16:50] <Drixx> on the up side ... the stress is low enough we could trigger the first thing right?
01[16:50] <Drixx> the thing where people have to avoid using their abilities to stop the 2nd thing?
[16:55] <cerberus_v6.66> Maybe?
[16:55] <cerberus_v6.66> Need to double check
01[16:58] <Drixx> Titus is fucking with us in the alliance chat
[17:02] <cerberus_v6.66> How so?
01[17:07] <Drixx> there's no way Titus would just assume we're town, nor expect us to just take it on faith that she is
01[17:07] <Drixx> which is what she proposed
[17:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Eh. Last time was SUPER tense
[17:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Maybe she doesn't want a repeat?
[17:14] <cerberus_v6.66> She was also willing to easily townread me in Gistou if you recall.
01[20:02] <Drixx> possibly a chance to remote detonate Killthestory right now
01[20:02] <Drixx> claims to be Garnet and IC in the same post
01[20:02] <Drixx> if it gets mod confirmed, can't remote detonate
01[20:02] <Drixx> but could submit that quote now before it's confirmed
01[20:03] <Drixx> not sure if KTS is the best possible use of that ability ...
[20:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Probably not, but itbwould be pretty sweet to immediately punish town for being dumb
[20:52] <cerberus_v6.66> And we do want all gems dead for skybird
01[23:05] <Drixx> you around?
[23:05] <cerberus_v6.66> Sorta, what's up?
01[23:07] <Drixx> trying to bait the hook for Titus
01[23:07] <Drixx> gave a little info
01[23:07] <Drixx> played dumb and asked her what concerns we didn't answer
01[23:07] <Drixx> she is right that there's a good amount of mistrust of us
01[23:07] <Drixx> but the only one that even gives me any pause for concern is mastin
[23:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Yep
[23:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Mastin CAN get us lynched, especially as conftown.
01[23:09] <Drixx> her only reasoning is really spurious though
01[23:09] <Drixx> there's no role/alginment I would be where I would interrupt an ongoing back and forth conversation with someone to comment on every single post some other person made
01[23:09] <Drixx> especially when those posts were quoting posts from the start of the game and obviously part of a showy catch up
[23:12] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah. She doesn't really have any reasoning at all, but mastin sorta doesn't need any.
[23:13] <cerberus_v6.66> I really want to just tell titus what our power is, since she's just assuming it's the exact same as hers
[23:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, we REALLY should have used our power yesterday
[23:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Now town has conftown to rally behind and give the gunsmith to. :/
01[23:16] <Drixx> and mastin with a gunsmith is going to gunsmith us
01[23:17] <Drixx> and yes
01[23:17] <Drixx> I just told Titus I was going to talk to you
01[23:17] <Drixx> it would be best if you tag in and say I convinced you to share what our power will do
01[23:17] <Drixx> and then ask her advice on how we can leverage it
[23:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[23:17] <Drixx> and she's never going to believe that we would give out a gunsmith while we're being suspected
[23:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Umm, I'm not home
01[23:17] <Drixx> which may make her suggest we tell the game
01[23:17] <Drixx> dude it's a LONG day phase
[23:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Which is why I said I'm sorta around
01[23:17] <Drixx> doesn't have to happen tonight
[23:18] <cerberus_v6.66> I can talk to you, but composing posts is kinda meh.
01[23:18] <Drixx> I'm NOT going to the wedding btw
[23:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh no
01[23:18] <Drixx> I MAY be going to the ER tomorrow because of this pressure wound
[23:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Are you not healing?
[23:18] <cerberus_v6.66> :*
[23:18] <cerberus_v6.66>

01[23:18] <Drixx> I'm concerned it must have gotten infected because it should be healing way better
01[23:18] <Drixx> and there was some necrotic (dead tissue) drainage on the dressing
01[23:19] <Drixx> I think it probably needs to be debreeded (small bit of dead tissue cut out) and IV antibiotics to for sure kill infection
01[23:19] <Drixx> my mom was bummed at first
01[23:19] <Drixx> but then she was like "Well, you werne't meant to come then. We'll see you at a holiday"
01[23:20] <Drixx> so yeah
01[23:20] <Drixx> enjoy whatever you're out doing
[23:20] <cerberus_v6.66>

01[23:20] <Drixx> I'll be responsive even after I hop in bed
[23:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Alright.
[23:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Doin board games tonight
01[23:28] <Drixx> Do you want me to go ahead and just tell Titus that we have to pop our ability at night and the start of day 2 will start with the event and people get to vote for someone in the event and the winning player gets to pick from among 3 really strong 1-shot abilities (It will be posted by Varsoon anyway so there's no reason not to tell Titus since we have to get her help planning how to best use it when it will be public knowledge what is going on)
[23:29] <cerberus_v6.66> You b e to tell her we can't trigger it now though, because it requires +1 stress.
01[23:56] <Drixx> put a draft of the post I was thinking of making in our hydra pt
[23:57] <cerberus_v6.66> You need to tell her that it will also publicly reveal the flavor of the person voted for.
[23:58] <cerberus_v6.66> Fake claim for scum
Session Time: Thu Sep 08 00:00:01 2016
01[02:39] <Drixx> going to sleep
01[02:39] <Drixx> I checked with Varsoon asking about the timing and what he would actually post for the event
01[02:40] <Drixx> in his answer he said that the stress check happens after the climax and before exposition starts
01[02:40] <Drixx> it looks really fucking bizarre for you to be assuming instead of asking, fwiw
[11:09] <cerberus_v6.66> I did ask, and his answer made me think otherwise
[11:10] <cerberus_v6.66> Well, I asked a related question, regarding episode limits
[11:10] <cerberus_v6.66> Clarifying that an event could be triggered before the earliest episode it would happen on
[11:10] <cerberus_v6.66> So long as when it resolved it would be after that episode
[11:12] <cerberus_v6.66> What I didn't ask was if the stress was checked at the time of the trigger, or the time of resolution.. but since we could trigger it before the episode limit, I thought that meant the trigger was checked at that timem
[11:13] <cerberus_v6.66> In hindsight, it was an unjustified connection to make.
01[13:23] <Drixx> I wasn't really personally bothered
01[13:23] <Drixx> it was more that Titus is going to be "why is DRIXX the one asking for details and Cerb is assuming?"
01[13:23] <Drixx> and it's already risky trying to get her firmly into our camp
[13:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[14:02] <cerberus_v6.66> Are you available today to go and do some scum hunting while I'm working?
01[14:10] <Drixx> I'm making a post right now
01[14:10] <Drixx> then I'm considering sending you the picture I sent my mom to get her medical opinion on whether I needed to go to the ER today or not
01[14:28] <Drixx> mini quote-wall out
[14:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Shit sorry.

health>mafia, wasn't thinking. Thank you for that though. Picture not required
[14:54] <cerberus_v6.66> Grapes is right, it was fuzzy who he hammered, not farside
[14:55] <cerberus_v6.66> Gotta correct that, it hurts your credibility (though helps you look more town)
[14:57] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, gj. 1 down, just fb to go
[15:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh and mastin I guess. Cakes should get A50 to support him allying mastin.
01[16:05] <Drixx> Yes I know who he hammered
01[16:05] <Drixx> that's an intentional thing
01[16:06] <Drixx> it looks like I made a mistake which makes me look town
01[16:06] <Drixx> I got into a lot of problems as scum becuase I would be too perfect
01[16:06] <Drixx> so I started looking for really easy opportunities to make mistakes and avoid looking too perfect that wouldn't be obvious
01[16:06] <Drixx> some of the shit scum do to try and appear to have made a town misunderstanding or mistake are just stupid
01[16:07] <Drixx> shit like pretending to misunderstand game mechanics or rules is super obvious and always draws my attention when I'm town
01[16:07] <Drixx> so I stay the hell away from that kind of thing
[16:07] <cerberus_v6.66> Ya
01[16:07] <Drixx> ideally I'd rather nobody ever knows that they're not actual mistakes.
01[16:07] <Drixx> Nobody but Varsoon reads our hydra PTs so probably nobody will LOL
[16:07] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol
[16:08] <cerberus_v6.66> How do we defuse mastin?
01[16:08] <Drixx> we just keep playing our usual town game
01[16:08] <Drixx> Mastin's "reasoning" is that I was having a conversation with Firebringer and didn't stop and engage with every single post she made while she was catching up
[16:08] <cerberus_v6.66> I have no idea what she bases her reads on when she has read me correctly in the past
01[16:08] <Drixx> that's weaksauce™
[16:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Yes
[16:09] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm not concerned with that it's easy to address
01[16:09] <Drixx> that's all she has
01[16:09] <Drixx> so if we get lynched based upon that, I'd call that pure fucking luck
[16:09] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm concerned with what can't be anything more than a tonal/gut scumread because of MY posting
01[16:09] <Drixx> she made it clear her scum read on the slot was because of me though
[16:10] <cerberus_v6.66> Disagree
[16:10] <cerberus_v6.66> She brought up her accuracy reading me in particular
[16:10] <cerberus_v6.66> And asked why she didn't think I was townm
01[16:10] <Drixx> I haven't seen anything from you that looks at all off from your norm
[16:10] <cerberus_v6.66> That's the concerning thing, because she IS quite accurate about me
01[16:11] <Drixx> but I'm not the mastin type; I don't see whatever it is she sees
01[16:11] <Drixx> I'll take lead for awhile then
[16:11] <cerberus_v6.66> And if she is actually going to play, she's capable of talking people into lynching us
01[16:11] <Drixx> the most vocal people scum reading our slot are changing their minds
[16:11] <cerberus_v6.66> Off of her tonal read thing. :/
01[16:11] <Drixx> I don't think she's going to invest much because she expects to die
01[16:11] <Drixx> I would think the expects to die thing is a gambit to draw fire
01[16:12] <Drixx> except she's not at all engaging
[16:12] <cerberus_v6.66> And you taking the lead may be a good idea yes
01[16:12] <Drixx> a very cursory catch up with not a lot of substance and a few reads lists are it
[16:12] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm getting flack for defending your actions
01[16:12] <Drixx> you shouldn't defend me because you don't normally
01[16:12] <Drixx> unless it's something we talked about in which case you are able to honestly explain what we talked about
[16:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Eh, people specifically asked me my thoughts on stuff you had said!
[16:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Mastin did it, and then grapes brought it back up in his post that had a buncha other stuff I wanted to respond to. ;/
[16:14] <cerberus_v6.66> And I DID honestly explain the fb thing, lol
01[16:14] <Drixx> So you can always say "I'll talk to him about it and see what he was thinking"
01[16:14] <Drixx> If you feel like giving a defense or an answer is risky
01[16:14] <Drixx> we kind of made this bed for ourselves
[16:14] <cerberus_v6.66> You asked me if yo should push him based on stuff, I said I wouldn't, but you could do what you wanted
[16:14] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[16:15] <Drixx> if we're not aggressively pushing people and being super active people experienced with us get weirded out
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> I suppose.
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Anyways, work time
01[16:15] <Drixx> My guess is Mastin is used to seeing more posts from you early on trying to establish facts and make sure people realize implications of mechanics and such
01[16:15] <Drixx> but you are working not at a computer and not doing that as much
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> I almost blew myself up yesterday.
01[16:15] <Drixx> different = maybe!scum to her?
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Hmm
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> That's possiblem
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Meh. I want her to live until end game
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> And give us the win
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> It would make me so happy.
01[16:19] <Drixx> lol that would be awesome
[19:47] <cerberus_v6.66> Thoughts on Titus' suggestion?
Session Time: Fri Sep 09 00:00:02 2016
01[20:59] <Drixx> the attacks on Yume are legit pissing me off and making me want to say things that will piss people off
[21:05] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah. It's bullshit
[21:05] <cerberus_v6.66> She deserves better.
[21:06] <cerberus_v6.66> People talk shit about her but ignore people like DGB, who have done nothing for fucking YEARS on this site.
01[21:13] <Drixx> what do we do about the current absurd wagon on us?
01[21:13] <Drixx> This is coming from Mastin who claimed she would be conftown day 3 of SU original
01[21:13] <Drixx> I'm getting ready to wind up and go swinging at her
[21:13] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm going to ignore it
[21:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Under no circumstances should we attack mastin.
[21:14] <cerberus_v6.66> She's conftown
[21:14] <cerberus_v6.66> A mechanical effect confirmed her alignment as town to yume, who is fucking steven and also conftown.
[21:15] <cerberus_v6.66> (Though we don't know that yet of course, but still )
[21:16] <cerberus_v6.66> There is no actual case against us, from anyone. There's nothing to react to, so we find more interesting things to talk about imo.
01[21:34] <Drixx> I have a post I want to make
01[21:34] <Drixx> also ... am I log dumping?
01[21:34] <Drixx> look at our PT
[21:36] <cerberus_v6.66> Will do
01[21:43] <Drixx> I kind of want to show that post to Titus
[21:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Nothing wrong with the post
01[21:43] <Drixx> she might say it reads as super genuine frustration
[21:43] <cerberus_v6.66> you can
[21:43] <cerberus_v6.66> if you want
[21:43] <cerberus_v6.66>
Session Time: Sat Sep 10 00:00:00 2016
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:28] <cerberusv6.66> anyways, I'm gonna ISO SC
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:28] <cerberusv6.66> and see how he looks
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:28] <cerberusv6.66> let me know when you catch up
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:28] <Drixx> bad
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <Drixx> like SirCakez is obvscum and it's only becausue of so many other distractions popping up that he isn't already roped
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <Drixx> he had a really bad start to the game
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <cerberusv6.66> yeah
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <cerberusv6.66> yeah
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <cerberusv6.66> he's not going to get lynched either though
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <cerberusv6.66> unless it's a late day consensus thing
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <cerberusv6.66> because he's in the joyride
01[20:29] <Drixx> [20:29] <cerberusv6.66> the members there aren't going to vote fo rhim
01[20:30] <Drixx> It might be good for us to put out a few reads and have him as a scum read
01[20:30] <Drixx> if we're moving towards appearing conftown because of Titus outing that we have a super town role
01[20:30] <Drixx> and we have him in our scumpile and he flips scum, that will reinforce the idea that we're town
01[20:30] <Drixx> we'll run into problems in the late game because of living so long
01[20:31] <Drixx> but our "one shot" ability will be gone so we can always say that our role utility is gone so we must be wrong on our reads or scum would view us as a threat
01[20:31] <Drixx> all the while we can use that to throw out our scum buddies as scum reads
01[20:32] <Drixx> if we really manipulate well, we can basically leverage our position to tell the game who scum is but have them lynch elsewhere assuming our reads are terrible
01[20:32] <Drixx> that's long term though
01[20:32] <Drixx> [20:30] <cerberusv6.66> and if his teammates don't vote fo rhim, it'll take 13/16 town slots to lynch him
01[20:32] <Drixx> [20:30] <cerberusv6.66> I mena, that might be super obvious
01[20:32] <Drixx> [20:30] <cerberusv6.66> but any wagon on him is basically going to fizzle out and always be the same few people
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> This stuff below, is actually before the stuff above.
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> cerberusv6.66 [11:51 AM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> yo!
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [11:51]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I never noticed you respond to my previous message
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [11:54]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> how goes it?
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> cerberusv6.66 [6:05 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Ello?
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> drixx [6:05 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> hey
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> cerberusv6.66 [6:05 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> We sorta need to talk about the game. Titus revealed part of our events abilities
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> drixx [6:06 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm catching up as we speak
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> cerberusv6.66 [6:06 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> but it was the part that's LEAST useful for determining our alignment
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:06]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> (the protective power)
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:06]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> in a game that has a natural effect that will cause scum kills to always resolve
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> drixx [6:09 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> my first instinct is to simply have us say that there are other benefits and that the person who gets them gets to choose
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:09]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> and that we don't want to say any more because the way our event works is set up in such a way that it could out scum
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:10]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> ergo Titus was right to say as little as she did and to say that we would be obvtown when our event triggers
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> cerberusv6.66 [6:10 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't really want to deal with all this
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:10]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I want ot go out and have a good night
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> drixx [6:11 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> ummm then go out and have a good night
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:11]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I just got up after like 16 hours asleep
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:11]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I'll catch up in the thread and hopefully we're not lynched before I do
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> cerberusv6.66 [6:11 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I've promised Titus *I* would ISO SC and mcmenno
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:11]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> we won't be lynched
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:11]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> there's a 0% chance we'll be lynched imo
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:14]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I just wrestled a dragon in DnD
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:14]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66>
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:14]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> with my high level campaign thing
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> drixx [6:15 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I miss DND
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> cerberusv6.66 [6:17 PM]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66>

[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:17]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm not doing much DnD anymore
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:17]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> My monday group is kinda over
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:17]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> we're gonna try to fit in one more session some weekend
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:18]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> to finish out the campaign
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> [6:18]
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> my wednesday group has been moved to tuesday, so I can go to board game night on wednesdays
01[20:38] <Drixx> we should talk to Titus about SirCakez
01[20:38] <Drixx> also, I wonder if SirCakez is Jcakes from the Diablo site forum mafia group
01[20:38] <Drixx> tertiarially, I'm curious why Titus is telling us we have to be on a scum wagon
01[20:39] <Drixx> she doesn't remember the only reason we aren't voting is a concern that our vote on NC would negatively impact the wagon momentum?
[20:41] <cerberus_v6.66> Because she's afraid if we're on a town flip we'll be auto lynched tomorrow.
01[22:04] <Drixx> I wasnt to make a post
01[22:04] <Drixx> can I put the draft in our PT and get your thoughts?
[22:05] <cerberus_v6.66> I've made plenty without getting them vetted by you. ^^
[22:05] <cerberus_v6.66> Do it.
01[22:05] <Drixx> ummm
01[22:05] <Drixx> this one is a pretty harshly worded wall of "Fuck you mastin"
01[22:05] <Drixx> you might want to read it
01[22:05] <Drixx> and it's a WALL
[22:05] <cerberus_v6.66> I should have noted the contradiction Titus noticed in the other post
[22:06] <cerberus_v6.66> I just wasn't removed enough from thr situation to realize the entirety of your thought process wasn't transparent
[22:06] <cerberus_v6.66> And, umm...I don't know a how good a fuck your mastin post will be now
[22:06] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[22:06] <Drixx> which contradiction?
01[22:06] <Drixx> read the post
01[22:06] <Drixx> She claims not to know what's going on with me in my RL even though she does
01[22:06] <Drixx> etc...
[22:12] <cerberus_v6.66> The praise for mastins skills earlier in the fame, and rhe
01[22:13] <Drixx> o.O
[22:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol
[22:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Sorry
01[22:15] <Drixx> I proof-read it and added a couple thigns and posted again
01[22:16] <Drixx> I mean ... it's a pretty gigantic AtE really
01[22:16] <Drixx> and a takedown of a conftown
01[22:16] <Drixx> but wrong is wrong
01[22:18] <Drixx> I assume you don't want me to actually post that?
01[22:19] <Drixx> I saw you got invited to something
01[22:19] <Drixx> so I'm trying to get interaction now
01[22:19] <Drixx> it will be tomorrow before we talk again
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> Sec, let me read if
01[22:42] <Drixx> it isn't THAT long
[22:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol, at a friends. Trying to not be rude but things keep coming up to jeep me from
Session Time: Sun Sep 11 00:00:00 2016
[01:14] <cerberus_v6.66> *sigh* to clarify, I was at the home of a female friend who I'm rather interested in. Sorry. :/
01[03:16] <Drixx> okay
[10:54] <cerberus_v6.66> I...never saw this response at 1 a.m.?
[10:54] <cerberus_v6.66> Maybe I was asleep by then
[10:54] <cerberus_v6.66> :-/
[16:06] <cerberus_v6.66> almost done with SC's ISO
[16:06] <cerberus_v6.66> it really doens't get better
[16:06] <cerberus_v6.66> :-/
[16:06] <cerberus_v6.66> like, it's a pretty damn strong scum case overall really
[16:07] <cerberus_v6.66> gonna post it in the scum pt and see if there's any thoughts anyone has about how to make it not so damning.
01[16:14] <Drixx> Nobody has really made a case against Cakes
01[16:14] <Drixx> assuming we can't trigger tonight because he gets lynched, that buys us time to get mastin killed
01[16:14] <Drixx> mastin killed moves whomever gets our event reward into much less scary territory
01[16:14] <Drixx> plus Titus won't expect us to come out with the case that seals the fate of a scum if we're scum
[16:14] <cerberus_v6.66> we REALLY don't want him to die though
01[16:15] <Drixx> it's one thing to bus
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> and yeha
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> that's my concern about it
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> it's like
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> you'll see
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm at the last post in his iso
01[16:15] <Drixx> it's another thing to make a case and drive over the guy 10 times
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> then I'll post it all in our PT
01[16:15] <Drixx> yes it's awful
01[16:15] <Drixx> I already know it's awful
01[16:15] <Drixx> here's the thing
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> I've just done the post by post, not the write up
01[16:15] <Drixx> at some point mastin and others will realize that we aren't going to get lynched today
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> so the fundamental analysis/write up of it all is pretty important
01[16:15] <Drixx> SOMEONE is going to post that SirCakez case
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> possibly
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> :-/
01[16:16] <Drixx> it's almost inevitible that he's going to die today. You can read the way the herd is going as well as I can
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> we REALLY want him to live
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> to confirm FB as the traitor
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> and do wahtever it is his role is meant ot do
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> and no
01[16:16] <Drixx> yeah that would be nice
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> it's not inevitable
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm like
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> idk
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> I feel like he can live
01[16:16] <Drixx> but I don't see we save him
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> again
01[16:16] <Drixx> who do we get lynched?
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> because of the large number of slots who won't vote him
01[16:16] <Drixx> they will if we post a solid case against him
01[16:17] <Drixx> and mastin may even change her read on us
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> like, there are 4 town slots who know he's protecting them ALL against NK's
01[16:17] <Drixx> but it's a costly play
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> well, one knows it's him
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> and they rest of the group has decided to not lynch within their little party
01[16:17] <Drixx> but they haven't seen a proper case yet
01[16:17] <Drixx> I say we make it and we keep it in our back pocket
01[16:17] <Drixx> but if someone beats us to it, we lose a tremendous amount of town cred
01[16:18] <Drixx> right now Titus is defending us to the game
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[16:18] <Drixx> if we can get Mastin to town read us before she dies...
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> for good reason yo
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66>
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> good move btw
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> worked out exactly as you predicted
01[16:18] <Drixx> I felt like I was walking on a tightrope
01[16:18] <Drixx> the wrong phrasing could have screwed that play up
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> I mean, I don't know if it was optimal
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> since now town has all these conftowns
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> so the chances of our ability actually helping them is way higher
01[16:19] <Drixx> unless a scum hangs tonight
01[16:19] <Drixx> or a town uses an ability and pushes stress more towards slice of life
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[16:19] <Drixx> or both
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> like I said, we sholud trigger both message received
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> and our ability
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> so either way one of the two goes off
01[16:19] <Drixx> like ... the fact that we can't do the event until stress is at +1 makes us look SUPER town
01[16:19] <Drixx> coupled with the benefits our role gives
[16:20] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah, but that's not verifiable
[16:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Do we block Titus tonight?
01[16:20] <Drixx> We got no idea what Titus does
[16:20] <cerberus_v6.66> her desire to not be killed makes me leery
01[16:20] <Drixx> I intentionally didn't even go anywhere near asking for reciprocation
[16:20] <cerberus_v6.66> of her roles actual effects
[16:20] <cerberus_v6.66> it's not an effect on those she's allied with(not a public one at least)
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> which makes it more likely to be something targeted imo
01[16:21] <Drixx> if we roleblock her, we have to be willing to leave her alive a long time
01[16:21] <Drixx> and NOT roleblock other people we ally with
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[16:21] <Drixx> so it appears like a random thing with no tie to us
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> and we're going ot get the chance to start RB'ing steven
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> ever night
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> *every night*
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> for the rest of the game.
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> I think that's what i comes down to
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> do we ignore Titus and roleblock Yume all game long?
01[16:22] <Drixx> actually
01[16:22] <Drixx> Grapes has a roleblock that his alliance partner was notified of
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> Untrue
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> Not a roleblock
[16:23] <cerberus_v6.66> he prevents his alliance partners from gaining the benefits of their alliance
01[16:23] <Drixx> watered down roleblock
[16:23] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[16:23] <Drixx> anyway ... we COULD block Titus tonight
01[16:23] <Drixx> and only start blocking Yume once she's outed as Steven
01[16:23] <Drixx> then it will just look like scum roleblocker was afraid of Titus and then moved onto Steven once Steven was outed
[16:23] <cerberus_v6.66> won't work
[16:23] <cerberus_v6.66> unless she's outed yesterday
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> yesterday, lol
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> tomorrow
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> we have to trigger it the night they choose to ally with someone other than ourselves
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> and then we can maintain it
01[16:24] <Drixx> yes I know
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> we can't roleblock them at any time
01[16:24] <Drixx> so she has to be outed tomorrow
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[16:24] <Drixx> then choose to ally with someone else
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> I mean, that's not impossible to arrange with Yume
01[16:24] <Drixx> we could claim to Yume since she's conftown
01[16:25] <Drixx> if she tells us who she is we could offer to claim her flavor to take any shot scum has
01[16:25] <Drixx> bleh that's a marginal play
01[16:25] <Drixx> Yume isn't coherant enough for that to benefit us
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> :-/
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> let me finish this SC post and get it in our scum PT
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> almost done.
01[16:26] <Drixx> Not trying to dog on Yume. You know I like her.
01[16:26] <Drixx> She just wouldn't say in the main thread what we would want said out of that arrangment
[16:28] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[16:46] <cerberus_v6.66> it's posted
[16:46] <cerberus_v6.66> take a look?
[16:47] <cerberus_v6.66> posted in scum chat ofc
[16:47] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[19:30] <Drixx> we could blow up Yume
01[19:30] <Drixx> #2258 has a picture where the word "Steven!" is in the subtitles
01[19:30] <Drixx> that can be construed as a flavor claim
01[19:30] <Drixx> a flavor breadcrumb really
01[23:30] <Drixx> I want to post that Mastin post now
01[23:30] <Drixx> she's back and being even stupider
01[23:30] <Drixx> now she wants to lynch SC suddenly
01[23:30] <Drixx> the only person who has made any actual case on anyone in the game is you
[23:52] <cerberus_v6.66> She wanted to lynch SC awhile ago
[23:52] <cerberus_v6.66> You can post it if you want to.
[23:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Apparently nobody things you've done anything.
[23:53] <cerberus_v6.66> When in reality, they've just ignored your poste
[23:53] <cerberus_v6.66> *posts*
[23:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Like, farside is saying all we've done is make a shitty case against fb
[23:53] <cerberus_v6.66> That was like...5 posts of our iso
[23:54] <cerberus_v6.66> I've specifically addressed complains about us from mastin, grapes, AND SC, but somehow we're not defending ourselves or doing anything.
[23:54] <cerberus_v6.66> *sigh*
Session Time: Mon Sep 12 00:00:01 2016
[00:15] <cerberus_v6.66> That mastin slip thing you said was deliberate right?
01[00:24] <Drixx> of course
01[00:24] <Drixx> scum keep on top of info
[01:01] <cerberus_v6.66> So, you can make that post...but unless you think it will make people townread us, it's certainly a less useful way to spend your time than actually scum hunting in a digestible form
[01:01] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, dgb just claimed traitor to KC?
[01:01] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, dgb just claimed traitor to kc?
01[01:22] <Drixx> I was shitting
01[01:22] <Drixx> even regular shitting takes me a little longer than usual due to transferring carefully onto the toilet and even more carefully off (lest I fall and have to get up off the floor)
01[01:22] <Drixx> washing up, etc...
01[01:24] <Drixx> oh dear
01[01:24] <Drixx> we should leave that in the PT
01[01:24] <Drixx> see if anyone catches it
01[01:24] <Drixx> also ... not sure if I want to really bite on KC saying that
01[01:24] <Drixx> why would DGB admit to being traitor and asked to be lynched?
01[01:24] <Drixx> that's a level 0 play
[13:50] <cerberus_v6.66> Yo!
[13:50] <cerberus_v6.66> We're at a crossroads
[13:50] <cerberus_v6.66> And you totally should do stuff in thread if you have the time
[13:50] <cerberus_v6.66> Like, we need to either go through the playerlist very seriously today
[13:50] <cerberus_v6.66> And find better scumspects than SC
[13:51] <cerberus_v6.66> (So gotta iso and analyze NC and Shiro for the wagons that already have pressure, OR find someone totally new who isn't being talked about)
[13:51] <cerberus_v6.66> Or bus SC.
[13:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Bussing SC reveals the traitor, possibly prevents us from ever having the traitor join our group, removes an ability to cause members of our team to be BP, AND will give KC immense town cred, while casting a bit of doubt on DGB.
[13:53] <cerberus_v6.66> It also legitimized mastins reads
[13:53] <cerberus_v6.66> *legitimizes*
[13:54] <cerberus_v6.66> NC is absolutely thr optimal lynch for our team for today
[13:54] <cerberus_v6.66> It will be take the wind out of mastins sails.
01[18:01] <Drixx> why should KC get immense town cred?
01[18:02] <Drixx> You made the fucking case against SC
[18:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Because of DGBs traitor gambit
[18:35] <cerberus_v6.66> KCs response is perfect, so once town KNOWS there is a traitor (which SCs flip will reveal ), they'll assume she's town except on the outside chance that she's jaspar herselfm
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Dgb is also plausible as the traitor herself now. Super clever move either way. If there is a traitor, scum now think she might be it, and if she *is* the traitor, town think it's less likely she's it, and she got to tell the scum team who she ism
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Basically, we *need* SC to live today otherwise we'll have no idea if the traitor is KC or FB.
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Ideally, Skybird wouldballow with onebof them. And kc above was supposed to be DGB.
01[19:00] <Drixx> I honestly forget (I forgot to put it in my notes) ... what does SC do again that's so important?
01[19:00] <Drixx> like ... we can't recruit our traitor without him?
01[19:00] <Drixx> also ... acticating my iPhone 6s plus
01[19:00] <Drixx> may not respond for a few minutes
[19:00] <cerberus_v6.66> Possibly
[19:04] <cerberus_v6.66> He can identify the traitor, and we do not know the mechanism by which the traitor will be recruited
[19:05] <cerberus_v6.66> So it's possible his death will mean we can not recruit them
[19:07] <cerberus_v6.66> It's also theoretically possible that if he lives to ally mastin...we could skip a kill and give him practical lynch immunity
01[19:53] <Drixx> it's time to jump on cakes
01[19:53] <Drixx> 2544 was awful
01[19:54] <Drixx> and the longer we wait, when YOU made the only real case for it, the worse
01[19:54] <Drixx> I'm going to post with a vote and say that "Cerb's bar for when he's sure and will vote is set way too high. He made a slam dunk case and SC's response was basically to hoist up a white flag and give up."
01[19:55] <Drixx> you can play hydra dissonance and try to move to NC but if we move this wagon after you made the slam dunk case, and lynch a townie, we die tomorrow
[19:56] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol. Alright.
[19:56] <cerberus_v6.66> I think his flip is death for us anywahs
[19:56] <cerberus_v6.66> Town will just sheep mastin
[19:57] <cerberus_v6.66> NC's death will make town disregard her.
[19:57] <cerberus_v6.66> :/
[20:09] <cerberus_v6.66> Go ahead. When I get home I'll figure things out.
01[21:34] <Drixx> If WE are the ones who push the NC wagon then we'll be roped tomorrow
01[21:34] <Drixx> I'm trying to really work this to get us some town cred.
[21:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[21:34] <Drixx> I HATE that SC posted so badly, but we can't really help that, and he told us to bus him
[21:34] <cerberus_v6.66> SC getting lynched is so bad man.

01[21:34] <Drixx> I'm trying to get the most out of it
01[21:34] <Drixx> I know
01[21:34] <Drixx> I agree with you
01[21:34] <Drixx> I doubt that his ability is required for the traitor recruit though
[21:35] <cerberus_v6.66> Dunno
[21:35] <cerberus_v6.66> And now we'll never know
[21:37] <cerberus_v6.66>
[21:38] <cerberus_v6.66> The post fb is referencing from mastin was from a good while ago.
Session Time: Tue Sep 13 00:00:01 2016
[08:44] <cerberus_v6.66> Do you have the time to dive into pressuring and such some other slots?
[08:45] <cerberus_v6.66> Thread has reached stasis with votes piled on SC...If you think you can mimic my tone, feel free to sign as me, because this is what I would be doing but I just won't be able to for hours, and we'll have SC at L-1 shortly.
Session Time: Wed Sep 14 00:00:01 2016
[02:54] <cerberus_v6.66> Fyi, I like...probably just ruined Titus' townread on us
01[16:13] <Drixx> what should I look for to see how/why you did that?
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> Just read the thread. I'm not going to bother with the game for awhile. Nobody else on the team seems to care enough to do anything. SC's lynch was totally avoidable if our teammates actually bothered playing/doing anything to keep everyone from just getting bored and lynching him out of apathy and if he has listened to me and actively worked to solve the game after making his claim instead of just disappearing.
01[16:23] <Drixx> Well she was townreading us primarily for how I reached out and how I played ... NOT because of what our role does
01[16:23] <Drixx> so hopefully SC's flip doesn't change that
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> He hasn't flipped
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Tis obscured by something.
01[16:25] <Drixx> I saw that stress didn't move like it was supposed to which surprised me
01[16:25] <Drixx> should be -3 with a scum lynch
[16:26] <cerberus_v6.66> It's fine, Titus townread won't go anywhere. She basically is suspicious of me for spending s lot of time last night telling her she was wrong
[16:26] <cerberus_v6.66> Amd trying to figure out what the actual situation was with SCs claim
[16:26] <cerberus_v6.66> Just read it man
[16:27] <cerberus_v6.66> You want something to distract you, go do that. We can talk when you know what I'm talking about
[17:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Any thoughts yet?
01[17:47] <Drixx> You went way way way way way way out of your way to try and save SC when he was avoiding the thread

01[17:47] <Drixx> Like ... when I can talk to Titus again (I thought Steven Universe alliances were day and night talk), I can probably fix it
01[17:47] <Drixx> because like, there's a legit super serious and bad reason why you and I didn't talk
01[17:48] <Drixx> and I already said in the thread that you disagreed with me revealing info to Titus and you disagreed with me voting because you weren't convinced
01[17:48] <Drixx> So it's completely rational for you to try and be clear about info before deciding what to make of it
[17:50] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah, honestly it's more that I felt abandoned by the team and couldn't sleep and had nothing else to do and really wanted to remove Titus' head from her ass with regards to the assumptions she was making.
01[17:55] <Drixx> well I'm sorry I wasn't around; I would have tried to talk you out of posting anything and especially out of unvoting.
01[17:56] <Drixx> I'm assuming at some point it's going to be revealed that SC was scum so ...
01[17:56] <Drixx> I'm ALSO simultaneously really disappointed in our scum team
01[17:56] <Drixx> Skybird is the only one really that I feel can help us get to end game and win
01[17:56] <Drixx> maybe TWIE if he delurks ever
[17:58] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[17:58] <cerberus_v6.66> It's like we're going to be forced to do fucking everything while everyone else just lurks
[17:58] <cerberus_v6.66> Not even fun.
[17:59] <cerberus_v6.66> 3p>scum.
[18:01] <cerberus_v6.66> At least then I don't get stuck with a partner who gets themselves lynched D1.
[18:05] <cerberus_v6.66> Anyways, the titus townread will remain. If she ever goes overboard, I'll remind her that I JUST completely hoodwinked her as scum in gistou, and she TOLD ME her weakness was people agreeing with her....so it makes no sense for scum!me to go out of my say to disagree with her over nothing, for the sake of a teammate who was guaranteed to be lynched.
01[18:33] <Drixx> there's a LOT of reasons the townread from Titus should stay firm
01[18:33] <Drixx> like... Mastin and NotChara are the only people actively scum reading us and saying anything about it at this point
01[18:33] <Drixx> Farside and Grapes may still be, but Farside tossed her credibility out of the window with the rash disbanding of that protective alliance
01[18:33] <Drixx> even DGB and Yume mentioned we were town in their eyes
01[18:35] <Drixx> I would LOVE to get Mastin to come around but she didn't even read my post because she can't stand any criticism at all, and I included criticism of her SU play when I pointed out that she said our SU play was the best use of IC she had ever seen and then told her to compare and see that we're doing here exactly what we did then.
[18:35] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[18:35] <Drixx> I should have left out the fact that she made that stupid "I'll be conftown on day 3" claim, was wrong about every scum read and tried to get us NOT to lynch Titus and Sonic, and that she was completely useless on the last day.
01[18:35] <Drixx> But I felt the need to deflate her raging ego a little
01[18:35] <Drixx> also ... great job telling the main thread, by way of telling Titus, that I'm angry at Mastin
01[18:36] <Drixx> almost all players view anger at being scumread as a townsign
01[18:36] <Drixx> that was a really clever thing you slipped into that post
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol, wasn't even deliberare
01[18:36] <Drixx> which will be even stronger late in the game when people are reviewing ISOs
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[18:37] <Drixx> I have to play deliberate as scum
01[18:37] <Drixx> otherwise the fact that I KNOW who is scum and who is town makes my play too perfect
01[18:37] <Drixx> I have to put in mistakes and such
01[18:37] <Drixx> I have to be "angry" that someone is scumreading me "becuase of ego"
01[18:37] <Drixx> etc...
Session Time: Thu Sep 15 00:00:01 2016
02[22:36] * Disconnected
03[22:36] * Rejoined channel #su2
03[22:36] * Topic is ''
Session Time: Fri Sep 16 00:00:01 2016
01[20:37] <Drixx> I sort of feel like we should pretend we're a 3rd party or perhaps that it's multiball and Skybird is our partner with a possible traitor
01[20:37] <Drixx> the rest of our team doesn't really seem connected
[20:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Mmm we need an extra kill then
[20:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Which we can only do once.
[20:38] <cerberus_v6.66> The 3p thing is possible
[20:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Though we can never claim it, I will never be allowed to claim 3p and live again.
01[20:47] <Drixx> nor will I after smite
[20:50] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[20:53] <Drixx> if we can't kill mastin tonight, then it seems like we ought to kill someone that was either just lurking and isn't tied to any of the people likely to be in the lynch discussion
01[20:53] <Drixx> or make a confusion kill (Firebringer, for example)
[20:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Can't kill fb
[20:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Might be the traitor
01[20:57] <Drixx> isn't that a common way to recruit a traitor?
01[20:57] <Drixx> try to kill them you recruit instead?
[21:00] <cerberus_v6.66> Except we don't know how it works
[21:00] <cerberus_v6.66> Wouldn't we know that would happen in advance?
01[21:01] <Drixx> all we know is there's a traitor
01[21:01] <Drixx> we haven't been told how we recruit him
[21:02] <cerberus_v6.66> Yep
[21:03] <cerberus_v6.66> Do we want to risk killing our traitor?
01[21:08] <Drixx> we could ask what happens if we submit a kill on our traitor?
01[21:08] <Drixx> Varsoon might say "they will die"
[21:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Sure
01[21:08] <Drixx> or he might say "Can't tell you"
[21:09] <cerberus_v6.66> Either answer means we can't risk shooting at fb.
[21:09] <cerberus_v6.66> Or DGB
[21:09] <cerberus_v6.66> Could shoot KCm
[21:09] <cerberus_v6.66> That's a confusing killm
[21:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Thoughts on event usage? We really needed SC alive to maximize our ability to get the cluster to happen
[21:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Since message received would be tonight, and we would have been able to use his event to drop stress to 0 tomorrow
01[21:16] <Drixx> yeah ... but there's a -2 stress coming whenever SC actually gets revealed
[21:17] <cerberus_v6.66> And he could choose the first night of people skipping events, so the only people who could take actions/choose to skip them would be those who had previously taken an action
[21:17] <cerberus_v6.66> And hes
[21:17] <cerberus_v6.66> The cluster still requires -3 stress though
[21:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Thus event will make it +3
[21:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Hs flip makes it +1.
[21:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Our kill tonight and a mislynch tomorrow make it +3 again
[21:18] <cerberus_v6.66> So we basically need to bank on town using events from.high stress
[21:19] <cerberus_v6.66> To drop it to -3
01[21:20] <Drixx> yeah
01[21:20] <Drixx> which we should expect them to do yeah?
[21:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Hope so
[21:21] <cerberus_v6.66> If we use both TWIES and our events tomorrow (which we absolutely should)
[21:21] <cerberus_v6.66> Their events can still coexist
[21:24] <cerberus_v6.66> So D2: stress at +4. Unless SC flips by the night phase.
[21:25] <cerberus_v6.66> If he doesn't flip by the night phase, we won't be able to kill mastin that night
[21:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Barring a town event
01[23:17] <Drixx> a lurker kill points to nobody which leaves us with yesterday's status quo
01[23:17] <Drixx> nobody knows if SC was town or scum
01[23:18] <Drixx> Farside would probably be the early push to be lynched for dissolving a really strong town utility event
01[23:18] <Drixx> like ... that joy ride was really strong for more reasons than people have said
01[23:18] <Drixx> but there's also Mastin still sure we're scum for no real reason
[23:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Mastin can't be killed tonight
[23:18] <cerberus_v6.66> 0% success
01[23:19] <Drixx> I know
01[23:19] <Drixx> so that's why I am not sure about doing a lurker kill
[23:19] <cerberus_v6.66> She can't get us lynched tomorrow imo m
01[23:19] <Drixx> the question is ... who can we kill that will be a big shake up to the gamestate?
01[23:19] <Drixx> I think too many people started town reading us
[23:19] <cerberus_v6.66> If the status quo is maintained
01[23:19] <Drixx> Grapes might BE the best kill
[23:19] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah.
[23:20] <cerberus_v6.66> If so, that surprised rhe fuck out of me
01[23:20] <Drixx> umm... there's someone else who has be stubborn in scum reading us ... but that's Not Chara and I think Titus wants to lynch them
[23:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Since I didn't put any thought into t
[23:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Mastin and Titus want to lynch them
[23:20] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm supposed to ISO them tonight
01[23:21] <Drixx> Mastin and Titus BOTH want to lynch Not Chara?
[23:22] <cerberus_v6.66> Yes
01[23:22] <Drixx> ooh... I just got an idea for an absurd gambit
01[23:22] <Drixx> we do the message thing, but we do no kill
[23:22] <cerberus_v6.66> How did not Chara live through yesterday?
[23:22] <cerberus_v6.66> No fucking idea.
01[23:22] <Drixx> then WE (RR) claim that until we do our beach-a-palooza event, we have passive kill protection from anti-town factions
[23:23] <cerberus_v6.66> Won't work
[23:23] <cerberus_v6.66> Titus claimed to be a protective role
[23:23] <cerberus_v6.66> A bp interact or of some sort
[23:23] <cerberus_v6.66> Even if it's not true
01[23:23] <Drixx> we could just keep our mouths shut and if someone protected us they may suggest we were the target
[23:23] <cerberus_v6.66> We wouldn't claim that when we know our ally could have easily been the cause of protection.
01[23:24] <Drixx> especially if Titus is really a protective and protects us
[23:24] <cerberus_v6.66> No killing is cray yo.
01[23:24] <Drixx> and there's legit reason to think that scum would target a town!us
01[23:24] <Drixx> sometimes crazy works
[23:24] <cerberus_v6.66> Only member of our team to give that much town cred is foxbird
01[23:24] <Drixx> maybe not THAT crazy
01[23:25] <Drixx> but like ... it was an absurd gambit that won SMITE ... It has been more than a year and I still can't believe I pulled that shit off
01[23:25] <Drixx> and this team feels like that team did to me
01[23:25] <Drixx> one person is semi-responsive (Skybird) but otherwise we're basically alone
01[23:25] <Drixx> nobody wants to talk about optimal play or anything
01[23:26] <Drixx> there's like what ... 3 messages this night phase that aren't Varsoon or us?
[23:27] <cerberus_v6.66> Yep.
[23:28] <cerberus_v6.66> Well, a bit more than that
[23:28] <cerberus_v6.66> People talked right after day ended, and are quiet now.
Session Time: Sat Sep 17 00:00:00 2016
01[13:56] <Drixx> [11:45] <cerberusv6.66> Deadline is in 3 hours, I just realized.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [12:49] <cerberusv6.66> I submitted not blocking Titus(so we can block Yume from now on), and killing grapes. Deadline is in 2 hours. If you want ot block Titus, PLEASE change it. I nkow you made a good point about being able to switch targets without suspicion if we can get Yume to claim today, but you didn't say for certain how we'd do that or if we should definitely block Titus.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:39] <Drixx> I agree with your analysis
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:39] * cerberusv6.66 is away.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:46] <cerberusv6.66> Cool.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:46] <cerberusv6.66> We need to block a yume/titus alliance tomorrow.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:47] <cerberusv6.66> I mean, mastin/titus
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:48] <cerberusv6.66> We can block Yume tomorrow, but if titus has some sort of targeted protective for allies we can't have her keeping mastin safe, assuming an NC lynch we KNOW that mastin will check us. Yume woild be th ideal recipient of the beachapalooza reward, since we'll have already been poised to keep blocking her.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:50] <Drixx> agreed
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:50] <cerberusv6.66> I have a slight concern that our traitor may control a kill of their own(lynches alone mean alone perfect game by us would he 7 phases long, which is LONG, and we only have one dependable extra kill)
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:51] <cerberusv6.66> Or that there may be a SK. Our dual sources of immunity to vigs, which could have protected 3/5 of us, strengthens that belief, unless town has multiple limited shot/gates vigs or one unlimited vig.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:52] <cerberusv6.66> In either the traitor kill or SK case, common strategy would be to target as a vig would....in which case, Foxbird and TWIE are both fantastic people to shoot.
01[13:56] <Drixx> [13:53] <Drixx> yeah

[13:57] <cerberus_v6.66> Another thing, town certainly has a resurrection mechanic
[13:57] <cerberus_v6.66> That's most likely the reason behind the obscured flip, NOT anything else
[13:58] <cerberus_v6.66> Said resurrection mechanic could easily be via Yume
[13:58] <cerberus_v6.66> If that's the case, it's not impossible that we could get SC back alove
[13:59] <cerberus_v6.66> Given that his claimed event would allow all dead investigatives to report their last night's results towards end game.
[13:59] <cerberus_v6.66> Long shot, but yeah. Also possible there's someone who is lynchproof as well I suppose.
[18:33] <cerberus_v6.66> As I predicted, success on the first lynch makes town sheep mastin
01[19:43] <Drixx> Varsoon sent me the alliance topic but didn't add me to it
[19:45] <cerberus_v6.66> So login to RR.
[19:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, I'm fairly tired of sparring.
[19:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Game isn't worth the effort of defending against unfounded scum reads
01[20:59] <Drixx> Farside made a post that can be viewed as a scumslip (even though we know almost certainly that it's not)
[20:59] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh?
01[21:01] <Drixx> She claims that she and SC as scum in the joyride makes no sense
01[21:01] <Drixx> but A50 made the joyride
01[21:02] <Drixx> the thread stopped after I made my last post
01[21:02] <Drixx> it went from a ton of posts really fast to nobody said anything yet
[21:02] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah. I did see that.
[21:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Scum motive for farside blowing up the event was to allow her team to target within the event, obviously. And to keep their teammate from making that entire chunk of players BP.
[21:12] <cerberus_v6.66> Might consider mentioning the obvious differences in the way this wagon has formed versus yesterday's constant stalling on wagons.
[21:13] <cerberus_v6.66> We're at l-4 right now, with a double voter that hasn't triggered it voting us, so effectively l-3.
[21:13] <cerberus_v6.66> 5 hours after the thread opened.
01[21:50] <Drixx> well
01[21:51] <Drixx> there was no fucking reason to unvote and go through 100 posts of clarifying shit
01[21:51] <Drixx> I have no idea why it was done
[21:51] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah, I fucked up
01[21:51] <Drixx> but we had a ton of town momentum
01[21:51] <Drixx> well I was in jail
01[21:51] <Drixx> so you were on your own
01[21:51] <Drixx> I did what I could. There's no escaping the lynch right now without divine intervention.
[21:51] <cerberus_v6.66> Whatever
[21:52] <cerberus_v6.66> Super done with mafia
01[21:52] <Drixx> with me, you mean
[21:52] <cerberus_v6.66> No, mafia?
[21:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Stream of always just shy losses as town
[21:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Scum teams suck and don't do anything
[21:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Why would I want to keep playing a game like that?
[21:54] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm also super irritated thar fucking grapes lived.
[21:59] <cerberus_v6.66> There was no reason to say what you did in the scum pt btw
[21:59] <cerberus_v6.66> needlessly mean.
01[22:07] <Drixx> Do you believe that I had intent to be mean when I posted that?
01[22:07] <Drixx> Or do you believe it's more likely I just refreshed and read the conversation and posted what came to mind?
[22:12] <cerberus_v6.66> can you please respond to farside22
[22:12] <cerberus_v6.66> because I agree that your push on her is a stretch
[22:12] <cerberus_v6.66> it doesn't make much sense to me
[22:12] <cerberus_v6.66> it's blowing a dumb thing out of proportion
[22:13] <cerberus_v6.66> I mainly care about noting that there has only been *one* night phas
[22:13] <cerberus_v6.66> *phase*
[22:13] <cerberus_v6.66> and only like 3 events or something
[22:13] <cerberus_v6.66> so saying our ability getting triggered at night is suspicious is stupid
[22:13] <cerberus_v6.66> but I can't say tha twithout also responding to her question to you tha tyou ignored
01[22:14] <Drixx> I just responded
01[22:15] <Drixx> It's a question that makes me feel like I lost 75 IQ points becuase I read it
[22:17] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
[22:17] <cerberus_v6.66> well
01[22:17] <Drixx> it's done
[22:17] <cerberus_v6.66> the point is reasonable that if she was concerned with distancing from you
[22:18] <cerberus_v6.66> *from sc*
[22:18] <cerberus_v6.66> she could have reasonably just shot him
01[22:18] <Drixx> the thing that irritates the fuck out of me is that Mastin is not THAT good
[22:18] <cerberus_v6.66> but yeah, it's a waste of an ability
01[22:18] <Drixx> I fooled the fuck out of her in SMITE
[22:18] <cerberus_v6.66> when they were going to just die anyways
[22:18] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[22:18] <Drixx> and this constant "you guys are so fucking bad" shit is pissing me off
01[22:18] <Drixx> so since you're quitting, so am I
01[22:19] <Drixx> and there ends our current common pursuits until whenever I can move
01[22:19] <Drixx> although I asked Titus for some advice on that since she used to do work for trying to reform cannabis laws
01[22:19] <Drixx> and I feel much better about things now
[22:20] <cerberus_v6.66> that's good
[22:20] <cerberus_v6.66> and
[22:20] <cerberus_v6.66> no
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> you don't get to fucking quit
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> ..
01[22:21] <Drixx> yes I do
01[22:21] <Drixx> You just raged at me a few minutes ago
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> the entire point of me saying that was so you could say shit
01[22:21] <Drixx> bitched at me about how we play well as town but lose
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> and I could disappear
01[22:21] <Drixx> then get paired up with bad scum teams
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> and I didn't rage at you?
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> it's the truth.
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> and it has nothing to do with you
[22:21] <cerberus_v6.66> it holds true through MY games
[22:22] <cerberus_v6.66> i'm the common factor there
01[22:22] <Drixx> and then you said I was mean (when you know I don't try to hurt people)
[22:22] <cerberus_v6.66> not you
[22:22] <cerberus_v6.66> omg
[22:22] <cerberus_v6.66> dude
01[22:22] <Drixx> look at the last time I played in a game and it wasn't in hydra with you, mate.
[22:22] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't have the mental energy to deal with you taking umbrage at these things
01[22:22] <Drixx> I'm not taking umbradge
01[22:23] <Drixx> I don't have any give-a-shit about it atm really
01[22:23] <Drixx> I did my best and it wasn't enough
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> ...can yo uplease not just give up
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> seriously
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> if you fucking give up
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> then I'm going to have to not give up
[22:26] <cerberus_v6.66> and I REALLY don't want o have to play mafia right now
[22:26] <cerberus_v6.66> ...
[22:26] <cerberus_v6.66> especially if I'm going to have to try to answer questions directed about a case you made that I don't even believe in
[22:26] <cerberus_v6.66>
[22:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, no, mastin isn't this good. Her scum reads at 60% wrong
[22:30] <cerberus_v6.66> it's just that only 1 out of the 6 people on our team was actively doing anything at any ponit
[22:30] <cerberus_v6.66> to make on eo fthe ones she was wrong about end up getting lynched yesterday
[22:30] <cerberus_v6.66> and therefore discredit her/force her to reevaluate
01[22:41] <Drixx> there's nothing to talk about
01[22:41] <Drixx> nobody is willing to re-evaluate
01[22:41] <Drixx> they don't even want to talk about how to handle the scum event
01[22:41] <Drixx> look at the post I just made
01[22:42] <Drixx> that's /actually/ an attempt to make people believe that I'm town and just done investing in people who refuse to re-assess
01[22:42] <Drixx> my hail mary, if you will
01[22:42] <Drixx> although the personal note is, I think, spot on
01[22:42] <Drixx> I like modding games
01[22:42] <Drixx> I think I'll do that and not play, unless you decide you want to play again sometime in the future
01[22:42] <Drixx> you really are quite good as town
01[22:42] <Drixx> and I think have just been supremely unlucky as scum
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> meh
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> never good enough
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> so who cares
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> you can talk about getting better
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> but when HUNDREDS of hours of effort have moved me from almost won
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> to
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> almost won
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> ...
[22:44] <cerberus_v6.66> who cares
[22:47] <cerberus_v6.66> like, the closest thing to improvement I've seen is the fact that I had the whole scum team nailed, except for the member who got vigged, in Titus' game
[22:47] <cerberus_v6.66> but town's going to throw that away so who cares
[22:50] <cerberus_v6.66> this has been a shitty week.
[22:51] <cerberus_v6.66> if nothing else, I believe I need to reserve mafia for only times when everything in my life is wonderful
[22:51] <cerberus_v6.66> otherwise, it's as likely to just add more bad shit on top of bad shit as anything else
01[22:51] <Drixx> probably why I feel like I do right now
01[22:51] <Drixx> more a function of having had a really fucking bad week
01[22:52] <Drixx> btw ... I wasn't blaming you earlier
01[22:52] <Drixx> Town Cerberus ABSOLUTELY 100% of the time unvotes and clarifies information
01[22:52] <Drixx> you did exactly what you would have as town
[22:53] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah, I know
[22:53] <cerberus_v6.66> especially since I was about to go to sleep
[22:53] <cerberus_v6.66> (even though I ended up not actually being able to sleep)
[23:11] <cerberus_v6.66> anyways
[23:12] <cerberus_v6.66> I should probably go out, it will distract me, but I don't feel like doing shit
01[23:48] <Drixx> ok
Session Time: Sun Sep 18 00:00:01 2016
01[15:36] <Drixx> Just caught up with the thread
01[15:36] <Drixx> talk about absurd
[15:36] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol yeah
[15:36] <cerberus_v6.66> We...might not die.
01[15:36] <Drixx> the main push on us (outside of Mastin's gut) is because Farside has a bad memory
01[15:37] <Drixx> like ... Farside remembers that we basically solo blew out the scum team in SU
[15:37] <cerberus_v6.66> I should really go do some scum hunting, but I was serious when I said I didn't give any fucks and they could wait.
01[15:37] <Drixx> but doesn't remember that we did nothing useful for the first two day phases
[15:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[15:37] <Drixx> and that our day 3 play was mainly us saving Mastin from being lynched for failing to become conftown
01[15:37] <Drixx> you have to go 2 MONTHS into Steven Universe to see us doing our thing
[15:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Mhm
01[15:38] <Drixx> like ... how the fuck can ANYONE be held to the standard of "You should be doing that on day one!"
[15:38] <cerberus_v6.66> A50 may have just contradicted himself btw
[15:39] <cerberus_v6.66> But I don't want him gone since he's going off on the wrong trail
[15:39] <cerberus_v6.66> But he mentioned the BP protection thing in his PT with SC
[15:40] <cerberus_v6.66> But claimed to not know SC was the source for awhile
[15:40] <cerberus_v6.66> Value of that depends on when he said stuff
[15:40] <cerberus_v6.66> Perfectly reasonable for a scum bp enabler to ally up with his partner as well.
[15:57] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh drixx, trying to talk town into 1) making the trackers /watchers not contribute to fighting the cluster, and 2) not taking ANY night actions.
01[15:58] <Drixx> the point is that town!us would be looking to get maximum utility out of roles
01[15:58] <Drixx> so we would plan in private with conftown to announce to the game that watchers/trackers should be watching the biggest scumspects
01[15:58] <Drixx> while TRUSTING them to realize they shouldn't
01[15:59] <Drixx> the idea being that it forces scum not to act
[16:00] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[16:01] <Drixx> Yume replied and I responded back and talked some more
01[16:02] <Drixx> I'm trying to get a townread from Yume
01[16:02] <Drixx> Mastin is unlikely to change her mind, even if she does change her mind
01[16:02] <Drixx> She has control of the game and if she backs down she could lose it
01[16:02] <Drixx> and you were spot on that she would happily spend a mislynch to maintain that control
[16:03] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[16:03] <cerberus_v6.66> It became clear to me when she started twisting our stuff about fb
[16:04] <cerberus_v6.66> Since we know that Yume was involved, and she knows that.
[16:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Her knowledge of our tendency to not be lynched is also why she was stressing how her town reads are stronger than her scum read on us. She noted that with two different slots. Preparing to minimize the harm if she's forced to back down.
[16:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Anyways, carry on.
[17:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Inspectorscout is right. As much as I bitched about our teams posting frequency and thread impact, what they do say is all quite insightful.
[17:21] <cerberus_v6.66> Makes ir even more of a shame that we're not functioning as a cohesive unit in a way, but it's good to know that they aren't going to just fall apart.
01[17:23] <Drixx> What do you think of my progress with Yume?
01[17:23] <Drixx> I decided I might as well make every effort
01[17:24] <Drixx> all it takes is swinging a couple people and getting mastin dead
01[17:24] <Drixx> although if we DO die, there's like no other scum in Mastin's top 8 scum reads besides SC and us so there will be a lot of mislynches based upon her ego
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah. Yume progress is good. You've at least neutralized her downward progress on her read of us.
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> And confirmed that she's still in a pt with mastin
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Which wasn't certain until she agreed to pass on your suggestion
[17:26] <cerberus_v6.66> With the earlier suggestions, she just said she didn't think mastin would agree
[18:02] <cerberus_v6.66> Sorry.

I wanted to make that lost for the lolz
[18:02] <cerberus_v6.66> And to appear to be trying to defuse this discussion between the two of you
[18:03] <cerberus_v6.66> But with your post immediately before, it looks like I'm discrediting you.
01[18:07] <Drixx> I really don't like what Varsoon just decided.
01[18:07] <Drixx> He should have made that decision BEFORE the game.
01[18:08] <Drixx> He knows I'm just asking him the question to try and reinforce the gambit I'm running with Yume
01[18:08] <Drixx> and he decided to penalize the scum team for it
01[18:08] <Drixx> that's bullshit
[18:10] <cerberus_v6.66> I told him you'd say that.
[18:11] <cerberus_v6.66> I think its possible null
[18:11] <cerberus_v6.66> We won't know until we see the setup
[18:11] <cerberus_v6.66> But we just locked out events from town
[18:11] <cerberus_v6.66> From anyone who wanted to contribute
[18:11] <cerberus_v6.66> While simultaneously allowing slots who otherwise couldn't contribute to contribute
[18:12] <cerberus_v6.66> Depending on the numbers, it may be null. It may also go either way.
01[18:30] <Drixx> by the way ... why the dig about me and SU?
01[18:30] <Drixx> the vast majority of the time I bring it up, we're town and I'm pointing people to it to ask them to trust our process
01[18:30] <Drixx> Yes, I remain irritated even to this day that we put in like 2 novels worth of discussion and had the game won and Grapes decided to spite us and that action resulted ultimately in a loss
01[18:31] <Drixx> but that's almost never the context in which I bring up SU
01[18:31] <Drixx> This is simply the first time I could directly go after Grapes about it, and I wasn't going to until he started being intellectually dishonest
01[18:31] <Drixx> I even made a note earlier in this chat that I wasn't going to go after him about it
01[18:32] <Drixx> but then he started admittedly just ignoring anything that doesn't fit his confbias
[18:32] <cerberus_v6.66> I said above why I said it
[18:32] <cerberus_v6.66> It was to make it look like I was trying to break down the argument by agreeing with grapes that you're thr antagonist
Session Time: Mon Sep 19 00:00:01 2016
01[19:09] <Drixx> We might get vigged if Farside can really vig
01[19:09] <Drixx> I talked to Varsoon about her saying that you were rational and I was not and saying that she would "consider" going along with Titus and not killing us today as long as only you post and I don't.
01[19:10] <Drixx> that's out of bounds, to bully someone out of posting with threats
[19:40] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't believe that was the context of what she said
[19:40] <cerberus_v6.66> She had already said she was coming around to the idea that we weren't scum.
[19:41] <cerberus_v6.66> Before that. So I don't believe she was threatening to vig us if you posted...I may have misread it all though.
01[20:12] <Drixx> I went back and read the exchange several times before I talked to varsoon
01[20:12] <Drixx> Titus basically came around and decided we're town but instead of fighting just said "don't lynch them today, it's not good EV"
01[20:12] <Drixx> but you can tell from her posts that she is townreading us
01[20:12] <Drixx> Farside was fighting with Titus
01[20:12] <Drixx> and Titus asked her to just go along with it
01[20:13] <Drixx> Farside said only if Titus could make it so I stopped posting today becuase I'm "irrational"
[20:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Mmm.
[20:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Yes that's what I recall happening
[20:44] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't recall her saying that she would vig us. Or thst thr conversation was even about vigging....jt was about her going along with focusing on other things (which she was already doing)
01[21:45] <Drixx> I guess we can agree to disagree
01[21:45] <Drixx> I read the back and forth as this: (paraphrased)
01[21:45] <Drixx> Titus: Would you please leave RR alone today?
[21:45] <cerberus_v6.66> Well, I just asked her
01[21:45] <Drixx> Farside: Get Drixx to stop posting because he's irrational and Cerb is rational
[21:45] <cerberus_v6.66> And she said it wasn't her intent
[21:45] <cerberus_v6.66> So as far as I'm concerned it's resolved.
01[21:46] <Drixx> I felt like if I posted then if she's really a vig I would draw fire
01[21:46] <Drixx> so regardless of what she says is her intent, after Varsoon warned her privately, I feel obligated not to post today
01[21:46] <Drixx> which is not cool
[21:46] <cerberus_v6.66> ..
[21:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Don't use that as an excuse to not play.
[21:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Seriously.
[21:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Fuck her
[21:47] <cerberus_v6.66> Don't fuck me over because of what she said.
[21:48] <cerberus_v6.66> Your skin is far too thin. No reason to interpret what she said as a vig threat.
01[22:16] <Drixx> I feel like if we can survive today and sway enough people, we can help carry our team into the endgame
01[22:16] <Drixx> we need to assume we will be lynched at some point though
01[22:17] <Drixx> so we should be gameplanning with our team how we can have our flip cast suspicion on town players
[22:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Agreed.
01[22:17] <Drixx> and it should probably not be overt in reads lists or other wifom things like that coming from us
[22:17] <cerberus_v6.66> With that assumption, we shouldn't kill mastin
01[22:17] <Drixx> we want THEIR actions and comments to look townie in retrospect
[22:17] <cerberus_v6.66> She's completely wrong about th rest of our team.
01[22:18] <Drixx> and yes, the longer Mastin stays alive (especially if stress goes to +4 and she couldn't be protected), the more people will question her read on us
01[22:25] <Drixx> of course ... our event will give Mastin the ability to find out that we have the ability to kill
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> But that's fine
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> If we're assuming we're going to be lynched
01[22:25] <Drixx> then again ... she may be arrogant enough to assume she can get us lynched without using that on us and use it on someone else
[22:26] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah, that's the risk.
Session Time: Tue Sep 20 00:00:01 2016
01[17:18] <Drixx> hi
[19:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Yo!
[19:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Finally off work
02[20:06] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Sep 20 20:06:30 2016

Session Start: Tue Sep 20 20:14:11 2016
Session Ident: #su2
03[20:14] * Now talking in #su2
03[20:14] * Topic is ''
Session Time: Wed Sep 21 00:00:03 2016
[08:13] <cerberus_v6.66> It would be very good if you could retract your not gonna post thing and do some hunting stuff while I'm at work today, in case mathblade ends up lynched today. Maybe defend him a bit if he comes up with some good material.
[08:14] <cerberus_v6.66> We have a golden opportunity to buy a bunch of town cred by game solving while there's no pressure on us.
[08:16] <cerberus_v6.66> So we set ourselves up to force mastin into copping us if she wants to complete this push, especially after mathblade flips town after she's upped the certaintybof her read on him.
01[20:19] <Drixx> I'm not sure that makes much sense
01[20:20] <Drixx> If Mastin is *SURE* we are scum, then it would logically follow we would know mathblade is town and thus we could fake making a case easily by looking through and finding the most townie posts
01[20:22] <Drixx> I think we need to ask Varsoon what exactly would return a positive on "has the capability to kill"
01[20:23] <Drixx> and then we can claim to Yume and ask her to tell Mastin that the gunsmith+ will give a guilty on us, so if she thinks we're scum she shouldn't waste it on us; we freely admit (to trusted conftown) that in a certain condition we have the capability to kill.
01[20:23] <Drixx> Better she uses it to find an innocent for find someone else who can kill
01[20:26] <Drixx> That, I think, is the path to getting Mastin to re-assess us
01[20:27] <Drixx> why would we explicitly tell her that the gunsmith+ ability she can choose will tell her we can kill, instead of letting her waste it on us?
01[20:27] <Drixx> Why would we give her the opportunity to find another scum, when she displayed a relatively casual ease at getting us basically lynched in a couple hours?
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Why did we keep saying that our ability would clear us if used on us?
[20:34] <cerberus_v6.66> That's the flaw with that plan.
01[20:34] <Drixx> I never said it would clear us
01[20:35] <Drixx> or if I did, it was unintentional and a huge mistake
01[20:36] <Drixx> like ... Varsoon hates cops and what we give out isn't really a cop
[20:36] <cerberus_v6.66> Mmm I may have said it. Someone did though, and I don't think I said much about the gunsmighing in the main thread. :/
[20:37] <cerberus_v6.66> We need to check our iso
01[20:37] <Drixx> well, it's like a gunsmith+
[20:37] <cerberus_v6.66> And make sure that we didn't do that.
01[20:37] <Drixx> it would find a SK, for example, while a normal gunsmith would not
[20:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Umm
[20:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Gunsmith find people with the ability to kill
[20:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Period
01[20:37] <Drixx> no
[20:37] <cerberus_v6.66> I thought?
01[20:37] <Drixx> look up the wiki
01[20:37] <Drixx> a Gunsmith doesn't find a normal serial killer (since they use knives)
[20:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol
[20:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Silly
01[20:39] <Drixx> also a gunsmith obviously can give "false positives" becuase town can sometimes kill
[20:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Well sure
[20:39] <cerberus_v6.66> That's not unexpected.
01[20:40] <Drixx> so as long as we didn't say it would clear us
01[20:40] <Drixx> then I think a two-pronged approach to finishing today
01[20:41] <Drixx> run the gambit through Yume to warn Mastin not to waste it on us; we'll freely admit it would tell her we have the capability to kill
01[20:41] <Drixx> and then ALSO do what you wanted to do
01[20:41] <Drixx> at some point, the amount of stuff we're doing that harms scum wincon will be so overwhelming, even Mastin won't be able to get traction on us
[20:42] <cerberus_v6.66> Wait what did I want to do
[20:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh, wking math?
[20:43] <cerberus_v6.66> Not sure he's putting out strong enough content for us to justify it. :^
01[20:44] <Drixx> Farside is actually wavering, Yume is wavering, Titus seems irritated by people scumreading us
01[20:44] <Drixx> so yeah ... if we have conftowns who believe we're more likely town (Yume because we have to pass the message to Mastin not to use it on us because that would be a waste; we're telling her she'll get a positive return)
[20:44] <cerberus_v6.66> Eh. I KNOW where I said we could be cleared.
01[20:45] <Drixx> I think we can hold out against Grapes and Mastin
01[20:45] <Drixx> if the rest keep putting us more town
[20:45] <cerberus_v6.66> I said we would give them the choice to either lynch us tomorrow after we use the evsnt
[20:45] <cerberus_v6.66> Or cLear us in the night after
[20:45] <cerberus_v6.66> :/
01[20:45] <Drixx> bleh
01[20:45] <Drixx> we're fucked then
[20:45] <cerberus_v6.66> This was when I was pretty sure we were guaranteed to be lynched at some point
01[20:45] <Drixx> if you had only said the first part
01[20:45] <Drixx> the second part explicitly says we would be cleared?
[20:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Of course, idk if you also said something too
01[20:46] <Drixx> because we could explain "You ca lynch us after you use it on us" or whatever
[20:46] <cerberus_v6.66> I haven't even found the post
[20:46] <cerberus_v6.66> I just remember saying something along those lines
01[20:46] <Drixx> and just say that we don't believe people will realize a positive can be town until they see it
01[20:46] <Drixx> I'm pretty sure there was a game recently where Titus was a gunsmith and used it to find guilties, but that's not REALLY what it does
[20:47] <cerberus_v6.66> Relief
[20:47] <cerberus_v6.66> 3419
[20:47] <cerberus_v6.66> You said it first.
[20:47] <cerberus_v6.66> <3
01[20:48] <Drixx> Then I really fucked up
01[20:48] <Drixx> my first rule of playing scum is to never give a condition where I have to just accept a lynch
[20:48] <cerberus_v6.66>

01[20:52] <Drixx> oh that's not really irrecoverable
01[20:52] <Drixx> in fact, I doubt a single person noted that
01[20:52] <Drixx> did we say it in any other way?
[20:53] <cerberus_v6.66> Dunnox I found thar while on the toilet and stopped looking, and now I'm driving to board games
01[20:53] <Drixx> so you looked and found me saying "if she clears us (or uses another reward)", felt relieved that I said it, and stopped looking?
01[20:53] <Drixx> Enjoy board games
01[20:54] <Drixx> I'll see if it was used in any other way or context if I can
[20:58] <cerberus_v6.66> 3591
[20:58] <cerberus_v6.66> The stupidity on our part that would be required for us to engage in that sequence of events is why we keep bringing up the mechanical aspect, beyond the pragmatic factor of it being optimal to take a free cop clear and then lynch us that day if you're paranoid about the accuracy or your results, or cLear us thst night if you're not and give scum an additional conftown to have to deal with.
[20:58] <cerberus_v6.66>

[20:59] <cerberus_v6.66> Well the point was to see if it was ever explicitly stated
[20:59] <cerberus_v6.66> And it was
[20:59] <cerberus_v6.66> So my search ended there.
[21:00] <cerberus_v6.66> Game is slow nowx soooooooooo you can feel free to say stuff!
Session Time: Thu Sep 22 00:00:01 2016
01[15:29] <Drixx> you know we should talk about that theory
01[15:29] <Drixx> in depth
01[15:29] <Drixx> and do a log dump
01[15:30] <Drixx> so Varsoon can shit himself if you caught on
[15:30] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol thr crystal gem theory?
01[15:30] <Drixx> yeah
[15:32] <cerberus_v6.66> But...I already put it in our scum pt
[15:32] <cerberus_v6.66> If I caught in he's already going to shit himself.
[15:32] <cerberus_v6.66> *caught on*
[15:32] <cerberus_v6.66> The numbers are pretty bad though for that
[15:33] <cerberus_v6.66> They might be 3p with a town and a alternate win con though.
[15:33] <cerberus_v6.66> Or maybe a win con that encompasses killing scum
[15:33] <cerberus_v6.66> Like my win con from SF
[15:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Remove all threats to earth and all corrupted gems
[15:36] <cerberus_v6.66> What are your thoughts on the dgb /mathblade thing
[15:36] <cerberus_v6.66> I didn't think my jab to farside about not voting dgb through before I said it
[15:36] <cerberus_v6.66> :/
01[16:16] <Drixx> please tell me you put Mastin in her place for #4569
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> No
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Wait
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Maybe
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't know what 4569 was
01[16:18] <Drixx> she said she didn't lie about her SU role
01[16:18] <Drixx> but she had to haver
01[16:19] <Drixx> she only knew she would get an alliance with SU on day 3, but claimed she would be "conftown" on day 3
01[16:19] <Drixx> there's no world where she didn't lie
01[16:19] <Drixx> fucking scum also got into that day 3 perma-alliance
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh yeah
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> I didn't bother engafinf
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> She's delusional, I don't care, and nobody else does
01[16:19] <Drixx> that's exactly the thing
01[16:19] <Drixx> both of us would have responded to that
01[16:19] <Drixx> not doing so makes it look like we're trying to placate her
01[16:20] <Drixx> it's factually inaccurate
01[16:20] <Drixx> and she's using the claim that it was true "from a certain POV" to give herself credibility in THIS game
01[16:20] <Drixx> that's why it's important
[16:46] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah, I've been too busy to bother with that I spent one sentence to respond to her false assertion, and that was all I was willing to say on the subject. I actually anticipated her defense
[16:46] <cerberus_v6.66> But it just wasn't worth spelling out in advance.
[17:26] <cerberus_v6.66> ?
[17:26] <cerberus_v6.66> ?
[18:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Should I share my theory with the game?
[18:18] <cerberus_v6.66> It's evolving btw. I now think that either jasper is a universal traitor, and could be recruited by either of us, OR peridot is a recruitable member of the crystal gems. That would explain 1) Yume's constant chatter about lapis lazuli and jasper (because peridot is the missing member of that particular trio), and 2) Klingoncelts "obsession" as A50 puts it, with peridot.
[19:20] <cerberus_v6.66> We played with shadow_step before didn't we? Is he competent? I feel like he's a low content player, but I feel that about practically everyone.
Session Time: Fri Sep 23 00:00:00 2016
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:06] <Drixx> what's the gamestate? I'm behind so I'm not sure where things stand
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:06] * cerberusv6.66 is away.
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:06] <Drixx> last major event I noted was you asking if we had to forgo our event to contribute points and Titus saying that if we didn't pop it we would be lynched
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:07] <Drixx> of course, stress is +1 right now, so a mislynch makes it impossible for us to use it
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:25] <cerberusv6.66> Umm bo
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:25] <cerberusv6.66> No
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:25] <cerberusv6.66> You have that flipped
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:26] <Drixx> you're right
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:27] <Drixx> do we have enough time to white knight mathblade and put a case on the foxwings slot? It's probably doomed. Not sure if we would actually get any town cred for it
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:27] * cerberusv6.66 is away.
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:27] <Drixx> also, since I accidentally cut off our ability to gambit safely ...
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:27] <Drixx> I mean ... I still think we should consider gambiting and having Yume tell Mastin that the check to see if we are capable of killing will return a positive
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:28] <Drixx> if anyone is paying enough attention to parse our posts that closely, we can always say we misunderstood what that particular reward did
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:28] <Drixx> and once we clarified, we realized we would show up as positive
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:28] <Drixx> just need a REASON we would show up as positive (vengeful?)
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:44] <cerberusv6.66> Mmm. That might work. We could ask Varsoon what wiki present abilities would trigger it.
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:44] <cerberusv6.66> Also, thr foxbird slot is fine ino
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:44] <cerberusv6.66> Imo
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:44] <cerberusv6.66> Shadow step is actually playing
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:44] <cerberusv6.66> And the game is full of people who aren't really
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:45] <Drixx> I was just spitballing thoughts
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:45] <Drixx> if we could save a townie (or try to) convincingly without appearing to be scum trying for town cred
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:46] <Drixx> like ... if we're doing beach party tonight, we have to gambit through yume to Mastin that we will return a positive
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:46] <Drixx> want me to ask Varsoon what abilities in the wiki would trigger a positive on that?
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:48] <cerberusv6.66> Ya
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:48] <cerberusv6.66> Please do
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:48] <Drixx> just did
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:48] <cerberusv6.66> It's sorta unlike us though
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:48] <cerberusv6.66> To have not asked that alreadt
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:48] <cerberusv6.66> :/
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:49] <cerberusv6.66> I agree with saving mathblade btw
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:49] <cerberusv6.66> But we need the wagon to go somewhere that isn't town.
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:49] <cerberusv6.66> Or else it doesn't do much
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:49] <cerberusv6.66> Better to be a conscientious objector to Mathblade's lynch
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:50] <cerberusv6.66> Than to divert and drive it elsewhere
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:50] <cerberusv6.66> Although I guess if we get lynched that th en makes him get lynched
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:50] <cerberusv6.66> But really we want him alove late game
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:50] <cerberusv6.66> He's a free kill with remote detonation right now.
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:52] <Drixx> okay ... I'll catch up
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:52] * cerberusv6.66 is away.
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:52] <Drixx> you haven't log dumped yet ...want me to do that after I catch up?
01[16:53] <Drixx> [16:52] <Drixx> also, I'm pasting all this convo to the right channel *sigh* (my bad)
01[16:58] <Drixx> Varsoon's Answer:
01[16:58] <Drixx> o long as a player has a role that is capable of affecting another player with a kill.
01[16:58] <Drixx> So...
01[16:58] <Drixx> Paranoid Gun Owner, Bomb, Vengeful, Vigilante, Factional Kills, etc.
01[16:58] <Drixx> If the role says "kill player" in any capacity, or if the role has factional access to such a thing, it will return a positive.
01[16:59] <Drixx> do you want to run the Vengeful gambit? We would have to probably claim our fake claim to Yume along with it
01[17:00] <Drixx> oh wait
01[17:00] <Drixx> no... fuck yeah
01[17:00] <Drixx> our ability "Just get ouf of my life!"
01[17:00] <Drixx> During the season finale if we hammer, the player is killed and no ability can stop it
01[17:00] <Drixx> we can claim to have checked with Varsoon if that would trigger a positive, and it does
[17:03] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol
01[17:03] <Drixx> [17:03] <Drixx> My reply:
01[17:03] <Drixx> [17:03] <Drixx> Our "Just get out of my life" ability has the text "... that player is killed" -- I just want to confirm that if we did not have access to a factional ability, that text in our role would make the beach-a-palooza prize come back positive. You said "kill player in any capacity" and "that player is killed" is by that definition something that would trigger it.
01[17:03] <Drixx> so if he says yes
01[17:03] <Drixx> we can actually full claim to Yume
01[17:03] <Drixx> as Sadie
01[17:04] <Drixx> and Mastin can check the flavor and ask Varsoon if that ability would give a positive before she uses it, etc...
01[17:04] <Drixx> we might actually have a perfectly true claim we can make
[17:04] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol
01[17:04] <Drixx> and a VERY plausible reason to have thought we would be clear earlier
01[17:04] <Drixx> because it's not really a kill in the traditional sense!
[17:04] <cerberus_v6.66> Yep
01[17:05] <Drixx> if he comes back with a yes, should I ago ahead and do the gambit with Yume?
01[17:06] <Drixx> the really cool thing about this play is that it's SUPER close to the fake claim I won SMITE with. Mastin will never believe I'd use it again specifically with her
[17:09] <cerberus_v6.66> Mhm
01[17:27] <Drixx> he confirmed that the ability to hammer and nothing can stop it would be a positive on that
01[17:28] <Drixx> should I go ahead and full claim to Yume and ask her to let Mastin know the situation and have Mastin ask Varsoon whatever questions to confirm?
01[17:28] <Drixx> I mean ... she's going to use it on us
[17:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Umm, we can't claim our role block.
01[17:29] <Drixx> so this is MAYBE she re-assesses and puts us in the maybe town pile but she can still use that item and find a guilty elsewhere (although her reads means she'll find an innocent more likely)
01[17:29] <Drixx> obviously not going to claim that lol
01[17:29] <Drixx> our "ability" is the hammer and the player is killed
01[17:29] <Drixx> and it's completely reasonable that we wouldn't realize that would return a guilty
01[17:29] <Drixx> it's sheer luck that we thought to ask
01[17:29] <Drixx> that's how I would approach Yume
01[17:30] <Drixx> give full disclosure, claim Sadie, claim our powers (except the RB)
[17:30] <cerberus_v6.66> Ya
01[17:30] <Drixx> also ... I think your theory might be correct. If you look at our role PM, the fake claim has us needing to eliminate scum AND have a surviving member of our team alive
[17:30] <cerberus_v6.66> Sounds good.
01[17:31] <Drixx> that implies your theory is more probable
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> True.
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> Hole shit
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> More evidence!
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> Idk how ro out it though
01[17:31] <Drixx> We maybe want to go to the game with it before end of the day
01[17:31] <Drixx> in case we get vigged after we trigger our event or something
01[17:32] <Drixx> we can just be like "Fellow town go look at your role PM. Look at your win condition. Why is it worded that way?"
01[17:34] <Drixx> it's present in the sample Role PM as well
[17:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Look at previous varsoon tow game role pms firsf
[17:40] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, idk if Yume is going fo coke back
[17:40] <cerberus_v6.66> She's been gone for a bit. :/
[17:40] <cerberus_v6.66> I hope she does though
01[17:53] <Drixx> well I made the post
01[17:56] <Drixx> we definitely need to decide how to approach showing the game that there is almost certainly an actual 3rd party GROUP
01[17:56] <Drixx> who PROBABLY win with town
[17:58] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[17:59] <cerberus_v6.66> The main problem is that all the evidence will out the crystal gems
[17:59] <cerberus_v6.66> Which we wouldn't want to do as town
[17:59] <cerberus_v6.66> As in, we know who the of then are most likelu
[17:59] <cerberus_v6.66> Probably foir, because fb is quite likely peridot.
01[18:12] <Drixx> Yume answered
01[18:13] <Drixx> I think town us would out the info, specifically because of your 3rd party role in SF
[18:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Yes, Inknow we would out the info
[18:17] <cerberus_v6.66> But itbwould be controlled
[18:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Like to random in our pt tomorrow?
[18:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Couldn't out to yume, since she's one of th r ones under discussion
01[18:28] <Drixx> Because Farside has claimed to be able to vig, we have reason to fear that once beach-a-palooza starts, we could be vigged
01[18:28] <Drixx> so town!us outs the info today
01[18:28] <Drixx> We should emphasize that we think the 3rd party/neutral faction wins with town because of the way our win con is worded
[18:28] <cerberus_v6.66> Untrue
01[18:29] <Drixx> that will make town players go look at their PM
[18:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Her vig requires a vote threshold
01[18:29] <Drixx> I think it gives us strong town cred
01[18:29] <Drixx> I must not have gotten to the point where she claimed that
[18:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Ya
01[18:29] <Drixx> or I overlooked it, as it's not in my notes
[18:29] <cerberus_v6.66> She starts asking for more votes on Shiro so she can shoot him
[18:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Seems to be she needs them to be at halfway to lynch.
[18:33] <cerberus_v6.66> Dude
[18:33] <cerberus_v6.66> Yume said she wins with town
[18:33] <cerberus_v6.66> Theory fucking confirmed
[18:33] <cerberus_v6.66> She didn't say she's town.
01[18:35] <Drixx> yeah I know
01[18:35] <Drixx> but she would say that even if they win and town doesn't
01[18:35] <Drixx> well ... maybe yume wouldn't
01[18:35] <Drixx> but a town!us would fear being killed before we could out this theory
01[18:36] <Drixx> we should at least flesh out the theory and our thinking that the group of crystal gems win con is compatible with us (town)
01[18:36] <Drixx> and town people will go look at their role PM
01[18:36] <Drixx> realize they didn't pay attention
01[18:36] <Drixx> I'm like 33 pages behind
01[18:36] <Drixx> but KC claimed being a crystal gem
01[18:36] <Drixx> so there's evidence out the wazoo
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[18:36] <Drixx> and town!us would want town to be aware just in case
01[18:37] <Drixx> what I just asked yume to pass on plus us telling town our theory may budge mastin off her read
01[18:37] <Drixx> because we're now gamesolving
01[18:37] <Drixx> which is how we broke open SU
01[18:37] <Drixx> and that's what she has to see to budge from the scum read I think
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> I won't be home till like super late tonight, going on a date after work, but the day shouldn't end before it's too late.
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> Good shit yo.
01[18:38] <Drixx> I'll make a post and just put in bold "Cerb and I have figured out something really important. It would be REALLY anti-town to end the day before we can flesh it out, confirm our info and get the info to the game before night starts"
01[18:38] <Drixx> and I'll promise we do it late tonight and just stay up till you're around?
01[18:38] <Drixx> also ... we should suggest we not ally tonight maybe? We have to pop beach-a-palooza, so we can't synergize and make a 3 point thing
01[18:39] <Drixx> again ... we'll end up allying
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Ooh
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Good thoufht
01[18:39] <Drixx> should I say both things in the post?
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> But I wanna be Random's ally.
01[18:39] <Drixx> so do I
01[18:39] <Drixx> I'm hoping people will say "that's okay ... ally anyway"
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> Suggest it, and tell eandom we'll submit him, but he doesn't have ro submit us
[18:40] <cerberus_v6.66> Thst way he won't be confining or denying thst he has an ability to forgo
[18:40] <cerberus_v6.66> *confirming or denying*
[18:41] <cerberus_v6.66> And he can go ally elsewhere if he wants (maybe fucking skybird because the woman needs to ally people like holy shit why is she not around right now damn vla)
[18:47] <cerberus_v6.66> Should I tell Yume everything I've figured out?
[18:47] <cerberus_v6.66> That they want to recruit peridot, because of x and y reasons?
01[20:10] <Drixx> sure
01[20:59] <Drixx> post #4812 KC claims to be a Crystal Gem Miller
01[21:01] <Drixx> holy town implosion batman
01[21:10] <Drixx> farside wants to ally us tonight
Session Time: Sat Sep 24 00:00:00 2016
01[15:16] <Drixx> There was a very specific way I wanted to present it
01[15:16] <Drixx> Evidence from KC claiming
[15:16] <cerberus_v6.66> all I did
[15:16] <cerberus_v6.66> was tell titus to look at her win con
01[15:16] <Drixx> then I wanted to point out that I thought a lot of people were shitposting and fighting about claims and saying they couldn't be 2 millers and 2 this and 2 that
[15:16] <cerberus_v6.66> and ask he rif she thougth it was more likely that varsoon wrote the win conditions to account for the chance of all slots dying in one phase
[15:16] <cerberus_v6.66> or that there was another faction out there capable of killing all scum after the town died
01[15:17] <Drixx> if there's a Crystal Gems faction, and we're sure there is, and it wins with town, and that makes sense, then a lot of things need to be re-thought
01[15:17] <Drixx> interactions
[15:17] <cerberus_v6.66> yes
01[15:17] <Drixx> claims
01[15:17] <Drixx> etc..
[15:17] <cerberus_v6.66> we can make a fuller post
[15:17] <cerberus_v6.66> obviously
01[15:17] <Drixx> that's how we present it to the game and it looks exactly like town us
01[15:17] <Drixx> so let's draft a post
01[15:17] <Drixx> we want to emphasize the reasoning for believing there's a 3rd party town-friendly faction
01[15:17] <Drixx> we want to say that KCs post is evidence
01[15:18] <Drixx> we want to say we have more evidence we're not willing to share with people we don't trust (because we do, and we've already shared it with who we trust, LOL)
01[15:18] <Drixx> we want to point out that it explains why we have weird claims that are causing tons of posts of people fighting
01[15:19] <Drixx> and we want to have everyone look at the win condition and realize that it basically confirms what we're telling them
01[15:19] <Drixx> and then we want everyone to re-assess how they're reading people, especially based upon conflicting claims and people need to look at interactions again
01[15:19] <Drixx> also ... there's almost certainly a crystal gems PT
01[15:19] <Drixx> which has leaked into the thread a couple times
[15:19] <cerberus_v6.66> oh
01[15:19] <Drixx> I just assumed it was a masonry or something
[15:19] <cerberus_v6.66> and yume spoke up
01[15:19] <Drixx> but there's evidence
[15:20] <cerberus_v6.66> and said we explained our reasoning to her
[15:20] <cerberus_v6.66> and she agrees with it
01[15:20] <Drixx> all right
01[15:20] <Drixx> so let's make one of our patented town!RR posts where we've figured something critical out that changes the game
01[15:21] <Drixx> pretty sure we become basically unlynchable with this play plus the gambit with yume
01[15:21] <Drixx> if she's speaking up for us, that means we swayed her read
01[15:21] <Drixx> which leaves Mastin as the last holdout
01[15:21] <Drixx> and Mastin can't hurt us with the investigate because we already admitted (and have a Varsoon confirmed townie reason!) for coming up guilty
01[15:22] <Drixx> and it makes sense we wouldn't realize
01[15:22] <Drixx> oh ... and we should claim that
01[15:22] <Drixx> because it implies scum have a way to avoid being lynched
01[15:22] <Drixx> and it means we should hammer on season finale
01[15:23] <Drixx> and it also could be a clue if the third party isn't town-friendly if we see one of them flip and they have the ability to avoid lynch
01[15:23] <Drixx> or do we need to put that gambit any further?
01[15:23] <Drixx> Is Yume and Mastin knowing enough?
01[15:24] <Drixx> sorry ... this is all the stuff I wanted to talk about yesterday but you had a date and no way I was going to interfere with that
[15:24] <cerberus_v6.66> yep
[15:24] <cerberus_v6.66> well
[15:24] <cerberus_v6.66> hmm
[15:24] <cerberus_v6.66> yes, our anti-survival hammer should be claimed
[15:24] <cerberus_v6.66> but not until the season finale itself
[15:24] <cerberus_v6.66> or we should ask yume
[15:24] <cerberus_v6.66> to have mastin express that information to the game for us
[15:25] <cerberus_v6.66> since if we had a way to bypass a lynchproof, scum would want to kill us
[15:25] <cerberus_v6.66> mastin is already a top priority, so her just sharing more information she has with the game won't really do anything
[15:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, if the 3p flips as being town-friendly nad has an ability to avoid lynch...it looks bad for us.
[15:26] <cerberus_v6.66> better to distance ourselves through some slots we have to kill at some point.
01[15:29] <Drixx> fair enough
01[15:29] <Drixx> there's kind of a lot we want to express
01[15:29] <Drixx> will people read a big post by us or does it need to be a post for each thing?
[15:30] <cerberus_v6.66> obviously it's abig post by us
[15:30] <cerberus_v6.66> with spoilered sub topics
[15:30] <cerberus_v6.66> and a TL;DR.
[15:30] <cerberus_v6.66> your post
[15:30] <cerberus_v6.66> my formatting
[15:30] <cerberus_v6.66>
[15:31] <cerberus_v6.66> I do'n tmean your post literally
[15:31] <cerberus_v6.66> but like
[15:31] <cerberus_v6.66> your type of post
[15:31] <cerberus_v6.66> splitting it up would be weird.
01[15:31] <Drixx> draft it in the hydra PT and I'll edit it and BB format it and post it? (seems like equal work share)
[15:31] <cerberus_v6.66> ppft
01[15:31] <Drixx> while you do that I'll be copying out our chat for the game so far, removing any personal stuff, and putting it in the PT
01[15:31] <Drixx> you have a bullet points list of what to cover
01[15:32] <Drixx> and you were like on the same wavelength as me
01[15:32] <Drixx> the big takeaway here is that as I was catching up, I realized the gamestate really needs this
01[15:32] <Drixx> people are fighting over shit that doesn't make sense precisely because nobody realized there's a full third faction out there
01[15:32] <Drixx> and once again YOU figured it out based upon almost nothing
01[15:32] <Drixx> well, you speculated
01[15:33] <Drixx> and then we both found evidence
01[15:33] <Drixx> it explains the weird references to a PT nobody has claimed
01[15:33] <Drixx> I kept assuming there was a larger masonry
01[15:33] <Drixx> but a Crystal Gems PT makes a ton of sense
[15:35] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
[15:35] <cerberus_v6.66> mmm
01[15:41] <Drixx> I feel embarassed the win con didn't make me ask questions right away
01[15:41] <Drixx> info overload at the start I guess
[15:53] <cerberus_v6.66> I hope our info got dumped
[15:53] <cerberus_v6.66> since I'm done with the post
[15:53] <cerberus_v6.66>
[15:58] <cerberus_v6.66> in the pt for you to look at and give thoughts on
[15:58] <cerberus_v6.66> idk
[15:58] <cerberus_v6.66> it feels thing
[15:58] <cerberus_v6.66> as in, there's not enough meat to it
[15:58] <cerberus_v6.66>
[15:58] <cerberus_v6.66> didn't even need the formatting
01[16:23] <Drixx> I made some changes
01[16:24] <Drixx> are you comfy with me just posting?
01[16:24] <Drixx> or do you want to see the result?
01[16:31] <Drixx> I just posted
01[16:31] <Drixx> Do we want to ally with random or farside
01[16:31] <Drixx> Farside seems to want to ally with us to talk about stuff we don't want to say publicly
01[16:32] <Drixx> which makes me think she might be a gem?
01[16:32] <Drixx> if we were actually town, then I would think she was scum trying to get info
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> she's not a gem
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> we know she isn't
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> because of skybirds check
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> I'd rather ally with random, BUT we need sky to be firmly established allied somewhere else
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> allying with farside might help us give her some more time
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> skybird that is
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> more time to set up another alliance
01[16:38] <Drixx> okay
01[16:38] <Drixx> I don't mind allying with farside
01[16:38] <Drixx> at this point she will have to be having SU flashbacks
01[16:38] <Drixx> the BIG REVEAL and all
01[16:38] <Drixx> also, I can't say this enough ... your mind is amzing
01[16:39] <Drixx> I might have gone until one of them flipped without realizing
01[16:39] <Drixx> and I noticed the weird phrasing that implied another PT and just assumed the masonry was larger than claimed
01[16:39] <Drixx> once again you catch it
[16:40] <cerberus_v6.66> Thanks. I cheated a bit though
[16:41] <cerberus_v6.66> since I *did* talk to varsoon about this exact possibility
[16:41] <cerberus_v6.66> like a year ago or whatever
[16:41] <cerberus_v6.66> whenever SU1 happened
01[16:41] <Drixx> I've talked to him about it a bunch
01[16:41] <Drixx> you know my original idea for Dark Tower was to feature 3 factions
[16:41] <cerberus_v6.66> ah yea
01[16:41] <Drixx> I should have anticipated he might try out the idea
01[16:43] <Drixx> I didn't substantively change your post
01[16:43] <Drixx> I just phrased some things differently
[16:45] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah, it's good
[16:46] <cerberus_v6.66> I haven't felt particularly loquacious lately
[17:03] <cerberus_v6.66> YOU...
[17:03] <cerberus_v6.66> still haven't dumped our pt
[17:03] <cerberus_v6.66> ...
[17:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Also, do you think Yume's *silent laugh* is deliberate wifom, or that I'm legitimately wrong about a bunch of stuff?
01[17:18] <Drixx> I'm reading it because I know there's personal stuff in there
01[17:18] <Drixx> also ... Yume just said something that doesn't make sense
01[17:18] <Drixx> why would town have a "at least one town member must be alive" condition
01[17:18] <Drixx> AND the 3rd faction have a "at least one town member must be alive" condition
01[17:18] <Drixx> ?
01[17:19] <Drixx> also, for some reason mIRC isn't beeping when you say something
01[17:19] <Drixx> if I don't respond, say something on emeriti slack, that always beeps
[17:22] <cerberus_v6.66> Will do
01[17:22] <Drixx> Yume is talkative right now in the PT
01[17:22] <Drixx> we could get some info if we play it right
01[17:22] <Drixx> also ... Yume is more clever than anyone gives her credit for
01[17:23] <Drixx> she gambits in really unique ways that nobody expects.
01[17:23] <Drixx> that's a valuable thing on a site where the meta is so molassas like
01[17:23] <Drixx> and A50 wants to ally with us now
01[17:23] <Drixx> Idget, Farside, A50, Titus again at some point
01[17:24] <Drixx> presumably we'll be blocking Yume passively for the rest of the game to prevent the bodyguard and not die thing she probably has?
[17:24] <cerberus_v6.66> yep
[17:24] <cerberus_v6.66> yume doesn't get to act ever again
[17:24] <cerberus_v6.66> and you try to play it right
[17:24] <cerberus_v6.66> I umm
01[17:24] <Drixx> after the game we have to make sure we tell her how much we like her
[17:24] <cerberus_v6.66> I have no idea.
[17:24] <cerberus_v6.66> well yes
01[17:24] <Drixx> because she's going to feel REALLY betrayed
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> :-/
01[17:25] <Drixx> I feel really bad, but I can't help what I got assigned
01[17:25] <Drixx> but I hate that it's Yume who is Steven and who we have to betray
01[17:25] <Drixx> I wish it was any other player on the list and not her
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> basically
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> pretty shitty
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> everybody else is kinda an asshole
[17:25] <cerberus_v6.66> lol
[17:26] <cerberus_v6.66> yume is defensive
[17:26] <cerberus_v6.66> but she doesn't just lash out at people like everyone else does
01[17:27] <Drixx> ummm ... Yume just made a post in the main game that is both bizarre and scary
[17:28] <cerberus_v6.66> the keeping one member of the town alive thing is very weird, yes
[17:28] <cerberus_v6.66> hmm
[17:28] <cerberus_v6.66> maybe THEY, unlike the town, can win even if they're all dead?
[17:29] <cerberus_v6.66> lol
[17:29] <cerberus_v6.66> well, the setup is pretty obvious now
[17:29] <cerberus_v6.66> after we had one flip, which included the traitor thing
01[17:29] <Drixx> yes, that makes sense
01[17:29] <Drixx> They can win if they die protecting earth
01[17:29] <Drixx> Humans can't win if they all die
[17:29] <cerberus_v6.66> someone already specifically said they believe the setup is the five rubies who came to earth to search for jaspar
[17:30] <cerberus_v6.66> like, idk, 50 pages ago or something
[17:30] <cerberus_v6.66> the question is...
[17:30] <cerberus_v6.66> well, never mind
01[17:30] <Drixx> btw ... what was it in the game that made you realize the 3rd faction thing? I feel dumb that I missed it. The clues were all there.
[17:30] <cerberus_v6.66> I was gonna say, who wins if they all die, and then town all dies, but no scum are left
[17:30] <cerberus_v6.66> obviously that won' thappen
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> barring a 2p night with a scum and a vig
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66>
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> mm
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> a lot of subliminals?
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> probably the biggest thing was yume's immediate suspicious
[17:31] <cerberus_v6.66> when I started talking about multiple people she could recruit to our plan
[17:32] <cerberus_v6.66> that made it feel like she had another PT to talk in with other people who we were unaware of
[17:32] <cerberus_v6.66> beyond the known groups
[17:32] <cerberus_v6.66> also, the bubbling thing
01[17:32] <Drixx> I just assumed a larger masonry
[17:32] <cerberus_v6.66> I was talking about how it didn't make sense for yume to have a vig
[17:32] <cerberus_v6.66> then realized it could be a factional vig
01[17:32] <Drixx> like ... there's something about how you think that is slightly more structured than me
[17:32] <cerberus_v6.66> which WOULD make sense
01[17:32] <Drixx> I'm glad we hydra together though
[17:32] <cerberus_v6.66> and would, of course, necessitate another faction
[17:33] <cerberus_v6.66> me too!
[17:33] <cerberus_v6.66> And there is a certain degree of intuitive leaps that occur
01[17:33] <Drixx> we overlap a lot but the places where we don't really compliment
[17:33] <cerberus_v6.66> I can't really be certain what the exact impetus was
[17:33] <cerberus_v6.66> but once the idea popped into my head I kept seeing things that fit
01[17:33] <Drixx> as soon as you mentioned it, it clicked
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> which naturally made me paranoid I was just confbiasing
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> and then yume confirmed. ^^
01[17:34] <Drixx> that wasn't enough for me
01[17:34] <Drixx> I went back and found some of the places where people leaked an additional PT that wasn't known about
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I completely missed the win con thing though
01[17:34] <Drixx> that was what convinced me
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> like, 100% missed it
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> where did people leak this?
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> becauseyou haven't shared that with me
01[17:34] <Drixx> unintentional leaks
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> I remember seeing some weird stuff
[17:34] <cerberus_v6.66> but I don't remember any of the details
01[17:34] <Drixx> all through the thread
[17:35] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah, by *who* though?
01[17:35] <Drixx> the way people phrased things
[17:35] <cerberus_v6.66> that's what's important
[17:35] <cerberus_v6.66> who are the gems we're going to kill?
[17:35] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[17:35] <Drixx> that's a lot of posts to go back through ... let me pull up my notes and hope I was smart enough to note post #s so you can look and see if you agree
01[17:36] <Drixx> KC was the first one
01[17:38] <Drixx> Yume just implied that if she dies she'll resurrect
01[17:38] <Drixx> and implicitly confirmed that she's Steven to us
01[17:38] <Drixx> This has gone way beyond where I think she might be gambiting to see if we're scum
01[17:39] <Drixx> this feels like she trusts us and wants to make sure someone town knows things
[17:39] <cerberus_v6.66> yep
[17:39] <cerberus_v6.66> well, she told us earlier that there is a resurrection in play
[17:39] <cerberus_v6.66> because she said mastin can tell us about it
[17:40] <cerberus_v6.66> well, she said scum don't have a resurrect
[17:52] <cerberus_v6.66> I really want mastin to flip her read
[17:52] <cerberus_v6.66> but grapes to keep tunneling us hard so we can sorta have cause to still be alive
[17:52] <cerberus_v6.66> because right now we're not longer able to claim being mislynch bait
01[17:58] <Drixx> what the heck does Yume's most recent post mean?
01[17:59] <Drixx> also, I talked to Varsoon about the post game situation in case Yume feels hurt.
[18:00] <cerberus_v6.66> cool
[18:01] <cerberus_v6.66> her most recent post doesn't mean anything to me
[18:01] <cerberus_v6.66> :-/
01[18:12] <Drixx> cheep cheep = bird sounds = skybird?
01[18:12] <Drixx> best I can come up with
01[18:12] <Drixx> no idea why that would make her think mathblade is scum
[18:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Maybe?
[18:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Maybe skybird is influencing her?
[18:14] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm trying to figure out who mastijbis
[18:15] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm thinking she's centipeetle
[18:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Centipeetle can't talk
[18:15] <cerberus_v6.66> And mastin can't tall in her alliances
[18:15] <cerberus_v6.66> And mastin was a miller
[18:15] <cerberus_v6.66> AND she's certain corrupted gems aren't a 3p
[18:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
[18:15] <cerberus_v6.66> She's centipeetle
01[18:21] <Drixx> yeah but we're saying the Crystal Gems are 3p, not corrupted gems
01[18:21] <Drixx> and it makes sense ... the Crystal gems protect earth from the homeworld gems, if I understand the show correctly (I've only watched part of season 1; I'm a fail)
[18:24] <cerberus_v6.66> yes, but I'm sure mastin believes that Yume, if 3p, would always tell her so
[18:24] <cerberus_v6.66> and if she knows that yumedidn't tell her about it
[18:24] <cerberus_v6.66> (sicne she's conftown)
[18:24] <cerberus_v6.66> (3p that wins with town)
[18:25] <cerberus_v6.66> and also knows the corrupted gems aren't 3p
[18:25] <cerberus_v6.66> she arrives at the certainty she currently has
[18:25] <cerberus_v6.66> we need to make sure we have all our thoughts on the game in our scum pt before the end of the night
[18:26] <cerberus_v6.66> because it's possible we'll get vigged(since if we get vigged there's no reason why our event wouldn't trigger)
01[18:26] <Drixx> event triggers AFTER the climax resolves
01[18:26] <Drixx> if we're dead, no event
01[18:27] <Drixx> we could definitely get vigged DURING the event though
01[18:27] <Drixx> but I get the feeling that most of the game thnks we're town now
01[18:27] <Drixx> better safe than sorry but ... still
[18:29] <cerberus_v6.66> her mathblade scum thing is due to mastin
[18:29] <cerberus_v6.66> who she just confirmed as centipeetle
[18:29] <cerberus_v6.66> the chip thing was because centipeetle really liked this type of chip that steven fed it
01[18:30] <Drixx> want to gambit a bit more with her then?
01[18:30] <Drixx> we know math is gonna flip town (unless he's Jasper?)
01[18:30] <Drixx> so we can express doubts and give her our "thoughts" and see what she thinks
01[18:31] <Drixx> then assuming he flips town, she sees our thought process and that separates her from being tied at the hip to mastin some
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> do it!
01[18:31] <Drixx> I feel like I've really played super risky with Yume
01[18:31] <Drixx> she's really a lot smarter than she lets on
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> pretty much
01[18:31] <Drixx> every time I consider another level of risk I get a little anxious
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> hmm
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> actually
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> yeha
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> n
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> don't bother
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> there's no reason to present our points to just her
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> and not to the thread
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> not that I can think of
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> if he wasn't at lynch risk, maybe
[18:31] <cerberus_v6.66> but since he's not...
01[18:32] <Drixx> It was kind of shitty of Titus to ask Math to come play and then refuse to even re-assess the slot
[18:34] <cerberus_v6.66> agreed
[18:34] <cerberus_v6.66> extra shitty if they're siblings, actually
[18:35] <cerberus_v6.66> that's an argument I don't want to get into in the game though
01[18:35] <Drixx> also, since nobody but Varsoon ever reads our PT
01[18:35] <Drixx> what on earth was Titus taking credit for from SU as Trench Warfare?
01[18:35] <Drixx> like ... neither of us ever had her anywhere near town
[18:35] <cerberus_v6.66> lol
01[18:35] <Drixx> and none of what she said swayed us at all
[18:35] <cerberus_v6.66> I have no fucking idea
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm pretending to take it to mean she was just saying that TW won that game period
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> not that TW was responsible for the win
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> since in reality, town lost that game
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> scum did not win it.
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> not to disparage xtoxm's play or anything
[18:36] <cerberus_v6.66> but yeah
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> we outmaneuvered him
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> and lost after everything else is accounted for because we didn't get around to performing our final checks on his alignment
01[18:37] <Drixx> Xtoxm just played the "If I put no content in the game, maybe I can make it to the end" card
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> remember that gambit we were going to run, but didn't?
[18:37] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[18:37] <Drixx> Grapes lost that game for town
01[18:38] <Drixx> Fuzzy's ability in play for another night would have been huge
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> and based on the scum PT, he was totally on board and paranoid about us enough to have fallen for our gambit
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> meh
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> they lost it, we lost it
01[18:38] <Drixx> if Grapes had not acted as he did, town wins 100% of the time from the gamestate at which he hammered
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> if grapes doesn' do what he did, game ends earlier. After he did, if we reassess properly OR show up and make the play we had both agreed to make, town wins
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> we share responsibility
01[18:38] <Drixx> Sure ... we weren't around at the same time so we didn't run the gambit on xtoxm in time
[18:38] <cerberus_v6.66> proximate cause is us.
01[18:38] <Drixx> but we actually had it planned
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> but without grapes things never get to that point
01[18:39] <Drixx> it's bullshit that someone blames us because they expect us to be around 24/7
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> lol
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> I blame us. ^^
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> but I always blame myself for all town losses
[18:39] <cerberus_v6.66> unless I die on D1
01[18:39] <Drixx> I blame us because we had a plan that would have caused us to vote for xtoxm instead of SCTH
01[18:39] <Drixx> but it's not like SCTH did anything townie at all ever
[18:40] <cerberus_v6.66> yeah
01[18:40] <Drixx> and Grapes harps on judging people by their play, not by mechanics
[18:40] <cerberus_v6.66> other channel
01[18:40] <Drixx> EXCEPT when he wants to say that SCTH was cop cleared so we should have known
01[18:40] <Drixx> lol
[18:41] <cerberus_v6.66> indeed
[18:52] <cerberus_v6.66> so
[18:52] <cerberus_v6.66> it's been like 3 hours now
[18:52] <cerberus_v6.66> and still no PT dump!
[18:52] <cerberus_v6.66>

01[19:17] <Drixx> 1198393 in base-36 is POOP
01[19:17] <Drixx> and when you're married, you'll understand why a task can get set aside for awhile
01[19:17] <Drixx> especially if you are married and your spouse has only one day off in 13 and you're doing something time consuming on said day off
01[19:18] <Drixx> the only person who is going to read it is Varsoon
01[19:18] <Drixx> and he doesn't know I'm reading through it to cut out personal stuff so he's not like impatiently waiting
01[19:18] <Drixx>
[19:21] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh.
[19:22] <cerberus_v6.66> You should have just said you're hanging with mel
01[19:22] <Drixx> other chan
[22:24] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm do glad we're not town
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> If we were, I would be very irritated internally about people's stubbornness
[22:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Because I'm not, I can laugh about it to myself.
Session Time: Sun Sep 25 00:00:01 2016
01[00:12] <Drixx> back
01[00:12] <Drixx> engaging with titus and mastin
01[00:13] <Drixx> I want them to basically convince me to vote Math over your objection
01[00:13] <Drixx> and watch as Mastin's credibility goes down the toilet
[00:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Sweet
[00:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Do it
[00:13] <cerberus_v6.66> I really waa going to go address all her points
01[00:13] <Drixx> you said you knocked out like 14 of the 19 points?
[00:13] <cerberus_v6.66> Basically a lot of them are subjective and there's overlap
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> And there may have been some hyperbole involved..
[00:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Like 1 is meaningless without actual flips from mcmenno, NC, or ourselves.
[00:15] <cerberus_v6.66> 2 seemed to be pretty clearly a mistake, because it literally makes no sense
[00:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Not even like scummy misdirection sense. It's just a mistake
[00:15] <cerberus_v6.66> 3/4 are okah
[00:15] <cerberus_v6.66> 5 requires me looking at his iso to see if it was awkward
[00:16] <cerberus_v6.66> 6-10 are meaningless
[00:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Especially the no interactions with flipped scum one
[00:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Pretty sure I could bring up most of the game with that, because most slots didn't actually interact with him.
[00:17] <cerberus_v6.66> 11 sounds like a purely personal interaction between them, footed in their relationship.
[00:18] <cerberus_v6.66> 12 I don't even know what she's saying exactly, but I think it's okay? The first part at least. Math claiming ascetic themselves when replacing into the slot isn't actually a reason to scumread them
[00:19] <cerberus_v6.66> 13 Lars is a follower, he wants to impress people with how cool he is and be accepted by them. That's the root of his bullying persona
[00:20] <cerberus_v6.66> 14 they gave plenty of plausible reads, just none that she agrees with. That doesn't make them implausible.
[00:20] <cerberus_v6.66> 15 scumreading your counterwagons and voting them.is survivalism and NAI.
[00:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Almost always better, as any alignment, for someone else to get lynched, since you know your own alignmenr.
[00:21] <cerberus_v6.66> 16 is sorta justified, given that we believe mastin to be very wrong about things
[00:21] <cerberus_v6.66> 17/18 are good points
[00:22] <cerberus_v6.66> 19 means nothing
[00:22] <cerberus_v6.66> 3, 4, 12, 17, 18, and MAYBE 5 are okay
[00:22] <cerberus_v6.66> The rest are crap
[00:23] <cerberus_v6.66> But the fucking lie about the ascetic thinf
[00:23] <cerberus_v6.66> Thing
01[00:25] <Drixx> look at the post I just made
01[00:25] <Drixx> I basically let Titus give the core reasons to vote for Math, emphasized them and said that they really couldn't be subjective and then add the lie on top of it, and it's GG
01[00:26] <Drixx> I don't think it's worth the risk to push it much more
[00:26] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah, that's fine
[00:27] <cerberus_v6.66> As long as you're the one voting.
[00:27] <cerberus_v6.66> Though I'd prefer if nobody from our team was on this wagon
[00:27] <cerberus_v6.66> It would do terrible terrible things to Titus' VCA.
[00:29] <cerberus_v6.66> So, I'm thinking I'm going out. I had a headache and have been resting here or I would have gone earlier, but it's started to clear up.
[00:29] <cerberus_v6.66> That is, unless you had something you wanted to discuss?
01[00:33] <Drixx> go forth and have fun
01[00:33] <Drixx> Mel has work early so I'm just putzing around now
[00:38] <cerberus_v6.66> XS Vs
[00:38] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol
01[00:38] <Drixx> XS Vs?
[00:38] <cerberus_v6.66> I shall. I'll talk to you tomorrow
[00:39] <cerberus_v6.66> My pocket sent that
[00:39] <cerberus_v6.66> One day, btw, you'll have to explain to me how we went from where we were at day start to here
[00:39] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm not certain it makes any sensw
[16:14] <cerberus_v6.66> Janitor could really be anyone, of either alignment, but it's most likely our traitor
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> If town they'd probably claim?
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Or maybe not. I'm not sure if the delay in stress movement is a good thing or a bad thing for town
[16:15] <cerberus_v6.66> Probably a bad thing, actually
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Since more town deaths happen than scum deaths so it pushes back how long it takes for their events to be triggered
01[16:16] <Drixx> Fair enough
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't understand why you chose A50
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> He's sorta the worst of the three options we had
01[16:16] <Drixx> it's what town!us would have done
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Unless he's not really vanilla
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Eh, I would have picked random
[16:16] <cerberus_v6.66> Because we've had hoods in our last few games.
01[16:16] <Drixx> we're not worth points to the event, and his claim means he isn't either
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> And, alsp
01[16:17] <Drixx> and he claims to have info that synergizes with what little we said
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Town us would have, after wrecking alliances
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Refitted them together
01[16:17] <Drixx> from a town POV, he's the pick
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> You just said we'll go with A50, and fucked over like 4 town slots alliances. :/
01[16:17] <Drixx> you would have; I would have asked someone to help
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> I mean, it's great for us
[16:17] <cerberus_v6.66> Sorta
01[16:18] <Drixx> us going with A50 only impacted Random and whomever A50 WAS going to be with prior to that
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Except our own teams alliances didn't get sorted
01[16:18] <Drixx> and Titus had a list with a bunch of tentative alliances
01[16:18] <Drixx> well, that's kind of on them?
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Naw, it's on us too
01[16:18] <Drixx> like ... I can't make them show up
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> That's part of why I was working to delay the game
01[16:18] <Drixx> I held off voting which is already going to make us look bad
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> Actuallu
[16:18] <cerberus_v6.66> No it wont
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> The wagon picked up 3 votes in the middle of the night
[16:19] <cerberus_v6.66> Between me going out at 10 p.m. and checking the thread at 3 a.m. he went from l-3/4 to lynched
[16:20] <cerberus_v6.66> Just bleh
[16:20] <cerberus_v6.66> I think I'm annoyed that titus was dumb and rushing the lynch when she KNEW there was all this shuffling going around with alliances
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> So I didn't get the chance to come in in the morning and begin taking control.
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> Because, well
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> There's a very good chance we'll be the de facto town leaders after the flip from mathblade
[16:21] <cerberus_v6.66> And KC.
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> Mastin loses enough credibility to balance out being conftown
[16:22] <cerberus_v6.66> And
[16:23] <cerberus_v6.66> Titus loses enough that she'll have a lot of trouble getting people to listen to her. Same with grapes really, but not as much as titus since he wasn't so stubborn about the 3p thing (didn't even comment) and hadn't taken responsibility for alliances and let it all fall apart.
01[16:24] <Drixx> so you asked something last night
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> Anyways I bolded action submissions in our scum pt
01[16:24] <Drixx> and I'm confused
[16:24] <cerberus_v6.66> What did I ask?
01[16:24] <Drixx> let me copy/paste it
01[16:24] <Drixx> [00:39] <cerberus_v6.66> One day, btw, you'll have to explain to me how we went from where we were at day start to here
01[16:24] <Drixx> [00:39] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm not certain it makes any sensw
01[16:24] <Drixx> what didn't make sense to you?
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> I also wish I had been able to just note that only those 5 points from titus' case are compelling to me
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Because she said it had survived our analysis and mastins
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> When really it hadn't
[16:25] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh, well, just why we weren't lynched. And why we're now townread.
[16:26] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm curious if mastin thought she wouldn't be able to lynch us
01[16:26] <Drixx> well ... I said that many of her points were subjective
[16:26] <cerberus_v6.66> Or if we legitimately convinced her to townread us
01[16:26] <Drixx> look at how I actually went through the process of being "convinced"
[16:26] <cerberus_v6.66> Naw man
01[16:27] <Drixx> I basically said that she had two solid points, and that the lie pushed it into convincing territory
[16:27] <cerberus_v6.66> You said outright that it was the most "some positive adjective" case you'd ever seen her make
[16:27] <cerberus_v6.66> But yes
01[16:27] <Drixx> I wanted to post your objections phrased my way but I was wary of appearing to know ahead of time that math was town
01[16:27] <Drixx> it was
[16:27] <cerberus_v6.66> Later on you noted two specific things
01[16:27] <Drixx> presenting a case in clear short points like that
[16:27] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[16:27] <Drixx> that's huge progress for Titus
[16:27] <cerberus_v6.66> *nods*
[16:28] <cerberus_v6.66> Meh
[16:28] <cerberus_v6.66> Immaterial I guess
01[16:28] <Drixx> as for day start to end of day
01[16:29] <Drixx> that's going to be hard to judge atm... I think Mastin has lost enough cachet that pushing us will be hard
[16:29] <cerberus_v6.66> I guess I just feel I didn't do anything particularly convincing
01[16:29] <Drixx> but I'm certain she still scumreads us
01[16:29] <Drixx> she just didn't see any point in pushing it when Titus was going to just point to the low EV
[16:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Omg you used cachet in a sentence
[16:29] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[16:29] <Drixx> but the dynamic has changed
[16:29] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[16:30] <Drixx> a big part of it is that once pressure was off us we didn't disappear
01[16:30] <Drixx> we kept involved in what was going on
01[16:30] <Drixx> we came into the game with a game changing theory, which Yume says is true
01[16:30] <Drixx> basically we look like what people expect RR to look like
01[16:30] <Drixx> and later in the day, people were making points like "early in the game you don't have the info you need" and basically we had town leaders making excuses for why our day one looked bad
01[16:31] <Drixx> all of which now makes it really easy for us to avoid being wagoned
01[16:31] <Drixx> and really as for how it happened umm... we hail mary'd it
01[16:32] <Drixx> I can't imagine having that kind of conversation with Yume if we hadn't been a dead slot walking
[16:33] <cerberus_v6.66> Actually, I'm dumb
[16:33] <cerberus_v6.66> The delayed flips are town
[16:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Caused by the resurrection effect
01[16:34] <Drixx> so the rezzer has to choose without knowing
[16:34] <cerberus_v6.66> No
[16:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Welyes
[16:34] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol
[16:35] <cerberus_v6.66> I wonder if it effects kills too
[16:35] <cerberus_v6.66> Since we only have a counter to lynches
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> I was gonna say maybe they know limited information about each flip(like alignment) but nothing role related
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> But yeah
[16:36] <cerberus_v6.66> That's unlikely to be the case
[16:41] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh
[16:41] <cerberus_v6.66> And it certainly only works on lynches
[16:41] <cerberus_v6.66> Because kills at night are basically known to be on town
[16:42] <cerberus_v6.66> So if it worked on kills, they could just pop it on the first successful nk and get a free conftown.
[16:42] <cerberus_v6.66> Am I going to have to dump our pt?
[16:42] <cerberus_v6.66> I was thinking varsoon might like to have it during this downtime.
01[16:59] <Drixx> lol
[17:00] <cerberus_v6.66> Welcome back
01[17:00] <Drixx> It's sunday
[17:01] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't know what that means. Football?
01[17:02] <Drixx> Yeah, I am watching football
01[17:02] <Drixx> let me do this dump so you don't lose your mind
[17:02] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[17:02] <Drixx> then I'm probably going to play bioshock remastered
[17:02] <cerberus_v6.66> Ooh
[17:02] <cerberus_v6.66> Bioshock is so good man
01[17:02] <Drixx> I could stream if you wanted to see how nice the remastered looks
01[17:02] <Drixx> I'm playing through it and showing it to Mel
[17:02] <cerberus_v6.66> I didn't know you hadn't played the original
[17:02] <cerberus_v6.66> Oh okay
[17:02] <cerberus_v6.66>
01[17:02] <Drixx> all the nooks and crannies and stuff
01[17:02] <Drixx> oh I played them all
01[17:03] <Drixx> I have the collector's edition from PS3 still even though I sold my PS3
[17:03] <cerberus_v6.66> Such impressive world building
01[17:03] <Drixx> it came with vinyl records of the soundtrack
01[17:03] <Drixx> Bioshock: Infinite probably has the best story of the group of games, in terms of themes and what it explores and how it does so.
01[17:03] <Drixx> but nothing beats that first view of Rapture
[17:04] <cerberus_v6.66> Yeah
01[17:05] <Drixx> I'm not sure WE should do the kill, btw
01[17:05] <Drixx> just in case there's a watcher/tracker or whatever in play
01[17:05] <Drixx> we just got ourselves a ticket punched into the end game if we are careful
[17:05] <cerberus_v6.66> I'm torn
01[17:05] <Drixx> wouldn't do to get caught
[17:05] <cerberus_v6.66> Skybird is MUCH better to have in the end game
[17:05] <cerberus_v6.66> With her triple vote
[17:05] <cerberus_v6.66> And she isn't scumread at all
01[17:05] <Drixx> so neither of us should do the kill
01[17:05] <Drixx> lol
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> Yes
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> But we have to
01[17:06] <Drixx> because?
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> TWIE has to use his power
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> To tell us who has PRs.
01[17:06] <Drixx> and shadow?
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> People certainly targeted him N
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> Incapable of submitting the kill
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> He's our godfather
[17:06] <cerberus_v6.66> Basically
[17:07] <cerberus_v6.66> Unless he's the only one left alive
[17:08] <cerberus_v6.66> Was it right for me to ignore the post Yume made where she noted that us telling her to not share information made us more likely to be town?
[17:08] <cerberus_v6.66> I don't think we can afford to have sky send in kills btw
01[17:08] <Drixx> yeah
[17:09] <cerberus_v6.66> Unless the stress allows them to be strongman kills
01[17:09] <Drixx> no upside to saying anything
01[17:09] <Drixx> she kept saying stuff
01[17:09] <Drixx> and I kept telling her to stop
[17:09] <cerberus_v6.66> Lol yeah
[17:09] <cerberus_v6.66> It's interestinf, I had told her that in our original post where I outlined why I believed she was a gem
[17:09] <cerberus_v6.66> To not confirm or deny etc.
[17:10] <cerberus_v6.66> But it tool us saying it like six times for her to townread us for it..

Drixx · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:35 am

Happy Reading, Varsoon!

Drixx · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:23 am

A post I may or may not make, responding to MoI:

There are some balance questions about the gems, specifically two that should be obvious to everyone. Put yourself in our shoes and tell me honestly that you would just assume a self aligned faction was on your side?

Figuring out the setup is kind of one of our trademarks as a hydra. So is being dismissive and snarky.

I do apologize for just assuming you were uninformed. We spent a good deal of time working out which slots were probably in the 3rd party faction when we were trying to figure out if we had it right, before we posted about it to the game. You weren't a slot either of us had pegged as one of the gems. All of the others had inadvertently leaked in one way or another. I simply assumed you didn't believe there was a 3rd party faction (because when we told the game about it to make sure they were aware, we essentially got mocked), and thus told you to go take a walk because you were, I assumed, uninformed.

But then you said you were informed, and I'm fairly certain I apologized for my bad assumption after that. And frankly ... since you weren't before then outed as a member of the Crystal Gems alignment, why on earth would I have assumed you were informed? Seems like you just took it personally when it wasn't.

As to my posts:

1.) You asserted that I was defending Farside by referencing SMITE. I wasn't. I view it as evidence for her being scum. Varsoon puts a gigantic amount of effort into building these games and I simply find it unlikely to the extreme to believe he went and read SMITE and decided to make a role out of a fake claim that I spent months building upon in PT and main thread. Misrepresentation catches my attention every time. If you genuinely misunderstood, then just say so. We don't need to have a pissing contest. Really.

2.) Until we have more evidence, I reserve judgment on whether the Crystal Gems are essentially a large masonry or whether this is a whole new level of "multi ball". Notice that I haven't done more than question. As of this moment, I simply can't know what the win condition for your alignment is. On the face of it, it would make sense for the Crystal Gems to be no threat to Earth. But I'm told that in the first Space Dandy game, SD was scum. There's also the possibility that this setup is basically the Homeworld Gems vs. the Crystal Gems with town caught in the crossfire. There's a whole series of things it COULD be, but no evidence for what it actually is. So yeah ... I'm going to reserve judgement.

What you may not know, since I don't recall seeing you in prior Varsoon games, is that there was a 3rd party solo winner a few games back. My hydra partner (in hydra with another player other than myself) pulled off the solo win by convincing town he was a 3rd party sharing town's win condition. His actual win condition was to eliminate everyone who could kill (town vigs, all scum), which does seem fairly town friendly right? Wrong. As soon as the last scum was lynched, the very large remaining group of us in town were end gamed and only that slot won. Almost everyone on this site considers anything 3rd party to be a policy lynch. I would say being skeptical but open is quite a lot more tolerant than viewing you as a policy lynch. YMMV.

Anyway. Welcome to Wall 'o Text Drixx. I'm pretty sure pretty much your whole post boils down to "You're an arrogant sarcastic asshole and it rubbed me wrong" and if so; apologies. I don't go looking for enemies here or anywhere.

As for the game and us: Right now you're a member of a faction whose presence presents a lot of questions and few answers. I try not to hold onto the idiot ball if I can help it, so I'm going to ask questions. If you were in my shoes, you would do the same, would you not?

~Drixx

Drixx · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:33 am

Post draft:

Two things. Firstly ... it's shitty that there's no communication by allying with you. We could infodump an absurd amount of info to you that you probably don't have and would help when you eventually step forward and take charge. We'll get the hell out of the way and just give our opinion if it means you'll actively play the game. An engaged and pushing Mastin is way better than what we're getting right now. Remember ... we've seen you at your best, and from your thread input, this isn't it. (No offense intended here; I'm trying to motivate).

As for Farside: the biggest thing I can't get around is how she handled ending the day yesterday. We

KNOW

Varsoon has been busy because he has said so, is not snagging page tops or giving vote counts nearly as often as normal, etc... which means the simplest explanation (invoking OC since you did first) is that Farside ensured he was around before she made her move and ended the day. There is no way to argue what she did was anything but scummy. Her action resulted in:

1.) Stress remaining at -4 when I believe both the gems and Kraska had set up triggers to increase stress at a certain vote threshold (correct me if I'm wrong; that's my understanding of where the gamestate was). That meant the scum could take out any target they wanted and nothing could prevent it.

2.) Exactly ONE alliance happening today, which just happened to be Farside. The problem with that is that Farside had firmly agreed to ally with Titus and they were supposedly going to sort their differences. She never took back her agreement to ally. So she effectively

lied to confirmed town

about it. Furthermore, Titus had claimed that her BP was contingent upon being allied, so Farside lied to Conftown in such a way that said Conftown would be vulnerable due to having no alliance the next night.

3.) I know you consider this circumstantial, but in light of the above two points: then a scum event was triggered in which only people who were allied could vote. It's sheer luck that someone could expend their role utility to both move stress and blow up the scum event. The fact that Farside

intentionally

initiated a situation where there would be very few alliances, lied to conftown (which would give the ability to kill Titus if something during the night had been able to take away the scum unblockable kill, btw) and also gave no warning and ensured the mod was around to end the day and lock as soon as she did it, and then the event came along that just happened to perfectly synergize with her actions?

If you want to argue that 3 is just co-incidence ... I'm not going to fight you over it. There's enough that's objectively scummy and unexplainable about her behavior if I assume town!farside that I don't have to fight over stuff that cannot be explicitly tied to her actions.

As for the gems, please consider the following: If the crystal gems (who are a third faction with a hidden win condition) really is simply a town faction with a different flavor but is for all intents and purposes town, then the following is true:

1.) At game start there were SEVEN slots who would never, under any circumstance, be possible to mislynch.
1a.) You (mod confirmed town to Yume to the thread), Titus (IC), the five gems (all are outed and most were obvious very early and in fact they leaked enough that we realized there was a separate faction super early)
1b.) The five gems are a very large masonry who started with night chat (standard for masons) but now apparently have day and night chat.

Use your setup mindset for a moment and tell me how you balance a game when nearly 1/3 of the slots can never be mislynched

AND

those slots are super powerful and have very strong protection.

HINT: Stress mechanic isn't the answer. Stress change isn't immediate so the stress shouldn't ever actually hit -4 ever in practice. It only did because of Farside's move. Take today, for example: Assuming we lynch scum, the flip will be delayed so the night begins with the scum not having unblockable kill. Scum presumably will kill someone so when the flip does happen, the gems simply flip one of the scum kills and ensure stress never hits -4.

Now ... with all of that said: my best guess is that the gems can win either with town or they can win by themselves. It's

possible

that they could win with scum, but that seems really unlikely to me for numerous reasons. Being in the possibility space makes it something to note just in case, but it isn't a top priority.

The point is: gems aren't town and we don't apparently get to know whether or not they need any town to win. We do know; however, that WE need an Earth aligned player alive to win. That means that we absolutely cannot win if all of us who are Earth aligned are dead.

The gems have claimed they also need an Earth aligned player left alive to win. That means that since the gems are outed, the scum team only has to kill off the others in order to win, if the gems are telling the truth. The problem with that is that we've SEEN the scum win condition. So if the gems cannot win once the last Earth aligned player is dead, the best they can do is play for a draw at that point because the scum win condition is: "In order to win the game, your faction must equal or exceed the number of other surviving players left alive." according to the flips.

So logically speaking, it seems most likely that the crystal gems can win alone or share a win with town. It does not make sense for the win condition they claimed to be true.

Cue MoI to come call me scum for using sound logic to point out why the win condition his faction has claimed doesn't make any sense.

~Drixx

Drixx · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:12 pm

Possible win condition gems could have that would make lying not only acceptable but pro-town: Eliminate all threats to Earth. If at any time all players aligned with Earth are dead, all gems die/bubble/something which results in scum team winning.

Drixx · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:20 am

Work in progress post:

I asked Varsoon whether someone who was able to double vote could have doubled their point contribution to our Beach-a-palooza event. His answer was slightly less useless than what he said in thread. He said it would depend on the role.

It is therefore

possible

that the missing half point is already accounted for. The possibilities that I can think of are:

1.) Skybird was able to count as 1 point towards the event and scum used that to set up false PoE pools. If we weren't steamrolling them, that could actually have been a really strong play as it's really late in the game and it's still not clear. Imagine if DGB didn't put her head in the noose or if Skybird didn't get killed by a gem event after Yume got zapped.

2.) Farside could account for the point disparity, but it would require 6 groupscum and the traitor voting to help her ... OR she would have to be a leftover who joined the scum team after the event, much like the gems got a leftover after the event. I personally would discount this possibility mostly for gut reaction reasons. When we were allied with Farside I laid out my issues with her play, explained why I felt it couldn't have come from any town mindset and then asked her to explain her thinking behind each of the things she did in that stretch of really anti-town play. Instead of trying to justify herself or make a defense (as I predicted a scum or 3P solo winning Farside would), she simply said (paraphrased) "I got a really fun and cool role and I just wanted to have fun with it". So ... put together the number of things that have to be true for Farside to be the answer (starts as a leftover, votes for mastin, then joins scum after OR a very large scum team) plus the way she interacted with us in alliance ... this is a paranoia possibility to me.

3.) We are the third possibility. This would require us to be scum and have the beach-a-palooza event and, instead of waiting awhile to use it or just never mentioning it, going and actively engaging with someone who knows us really well and ALWAYS suspects us (Titus) and getting them to help us talk through it and what to say in thread and how to use it to try and maximize catching scum, and then pop the event as soon as possibly could, creating PoE pools super early in the game. I'm obviously biased because I know for sure that we're town, but I think objectively this just isn't a play that Cerb or I would ever make. There's no amount of town credibility (especially in a game where the mod warns the game that scum had their town claims and events/abilities made before the town roles so that they would have very believable fake claims) that is worth giving town that much PoE power, objectively speaking.

If you add some other things to why #3 doesn't make sense, I think that we're OTAF at this point. Since we are showing up in potential scum pools, I'm going to outline why that's illogical (read: dumb):

1.) We knew that Xykfu was a leftover who could choose to join the Crystal gems, via Almost50, the day before Xykfu used his event to kill skybird. We knew that his plan was to ally with scumspects and tell them he was a 3p who could join either side and try to get them to admit to being scum so he could kill them with his event. We knew his event had a stress requirement.
1a.) Why is that important? Xykfu was only able to kill Skybird with his event because the scum team killed Yume out of the blue and that enabled Xykfu to use the Trap for Clods event to take out skybird. Now ... given that we knew what his plan was and the stress requirement, in what universe would a scum us have done (or not prevented team doing) the kill on Yume and raised stress enabling Xykfu to kill one of the scum team's super powerful roles (Go look at skybird's role card again if you don't remember). We would have to have been holding a planet sized idiot ball to do that, if we were scum.

This is why we kept information compartmentalized and only relayed to people were were conftown, by the way. If scum had known about Xykfu, the game state would likely be WAY different right now, if not already game over we lose

2.) Despite the fact that she always suspects us in every game ever, we earned Titus' trust before she died (Shiro can confirm if he ever gets around to being willing to read that chat). Further, we had an ability we haven't talked about. I emphasize

had

because Titus stole it from us after we told her about it and asked how we could use it with her help and misdirection. That ability could have provided conditional clears or near certain guilties, if used properly. There was a possibilty of getting that same ability given to a 2nd person and we asked Titus to help co-ordinate using it to get through the PoE pools faster and find scum using us as bait while the other person with the ability would not be outed. Shiro can, again, confirm this.

3.) Both we and MoI possess a similar ability which implies that scum has a trick up their sleeves. We claimed this ability before we were informed of MoI's abilities, so we legitimately have it, and I believe it's not at all a co-incidence that the CGs and Earth both have the ability.

4.) We knew the details of how MoI's protection worked (again, Shiro can confirm if he ever sees this and goes and checks...) and yet the scum team shot at MoI. Obviously this could be WiFoM, but in the context of this game, I think it's silly to dismiss it as evidence because "WiFoM". Specifically I'm talking about the fact that the scum team had already had a failed kill, lost a member to a Crystal Gem event, and if they were paying attention should have realized there was a lot of protection in the game. Intentionally giving up a night kill just makes no sense. It makes much more sense to believe scum didn't know about MoI's protection (and given how much other protection had been claimed prior, it would make sense for them to assume the shot would work).

I'm sure there's more, but I think that should suffice to demonstrate that we're not scum. A scum team with our knowledge simply wouldn't have done a lot of what the scum team has done this game. We were informed of so many things that hurt the scum team's chances that it borders on literally not sane to have us as anything other than "As town as one can be without being investigative/mod confirmed".

So I'm going to assume that the remaining scum are in the didn't vote for Mastin or Titus or claimed no vote pool, with Farside as a paranoia suspect. I think if you all objectively evaluate the information, you'll come to the same conclusion. Given our position, I'm pretty sure we're literally in 100% win probability territory now as long as we make no catastrophic mistakes. Presuming Fuzzy is town, I don't even think fuzzy shooting town pushes us out of 100% win probability at this point.

That said, can we please avoid squandering this? SU1 still bothers me and I don't want a repeat.

I know this is a long post, but I'd appreciate you reading it. Thanks.

Now as I see it, the scum pool is (most to least likely in my view): (Creature, TFL, Shiro, Grapes, S_S with Farside as a paranoia prospect).

Creature

- Ummm... really obvious.

TFL

- This should also be obvious I think.

Shiro

- Obviously skimming the game. Given that he missed us citing things Titus said and asking for him to confirm (and then bizarrely asked us to confirm something that isn't there), he's not really plugged in. That feels like demoralized scum (and could explain the MoI shot if Shiro is scum: if he missed the post outlining MoI's abilities or just skimmed it and missed the protection). It's also possible that it could just be lazy town assuming a win given our strong position.

Grapes

- I don't think we get this far before game over but if we somehow did, I don't actually have any reason to read grapes either way. He's been uncommonly quiet this game.

S_S

- I have a really hard time believing that the scum team were given a goon in this game. That seems absurd. Almost certainly he got stuck with the token vanilla townie slot in a role madness game. To be fair, though, that's literally the only reason to posit him as town.

Now we have 11 people alive and 1 or 2 scum seems likely. 3 is in the possibility space but that would mean SEVEN scum in a 25 person game. That means they need at least 2 mislynches and 2 successful night kills to get to MYLO (if 3 scum) but more likely they need 3 mislynches and 3 kills to get to MYLO (positing 2 remaining scum) and then they would need to get a 4th mislynch to win.

In other words ... this is probably in the bag but let's be careful just in case.

~Drixx

Cerberus v666 · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:33 am

(Never egoed)

Drixx · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:42 am

Draft version #2:

I asked Varsoon whether someone who was able to double vote could have doubled their point contribution to our Beach-a-palooza event. His answer was slightly less useless than what he said in thread. He said it would depend on the role.

It is therefore

possible

that the missing half point is already accounted for. The possibilities that I can think of are:

1.) Skybird was able to count as 1 point towards the event and scum used that to set up false PoE pools. If we weren't steamrolling them, that could actually have been a really strong play as it's really late in the game and it's still not clear. Imagine if DGB didn't put her head in the noose or if Skybird didn't get killed by a gem event after Yume got zapped. Skybird being able to count as a point does make sense as a way to blunt the power of our event, given that we were able to do it so early and given how much PoE power it had. And we didn't even really get the maximum out of it due to the Not Chara getting 5 points thing.

2.) Farside could account for the point disparity, but it would require 6 groupscum and the traitor voting to help her ... OR she would have to be a leftover who joined the scum team after the event, much like the gems got a leftover after the event. I personally would discount this possibility mostly for gut reaction reasons. When we were allied with Farside I laid out my issues with her play, explained why I felt it couldn't have come from any town mindset and then asked her to explain her thinking behind each of the things she did in that stretch of really anti-town play. Instead of trying to justify herself or make a defense (as I predicted a scum or 3P solo winning Farside would), she simply said (paraphrased) "I got a really fun and cool role and I just wanted to have fun with it". So ... put together the number of things that have to be true for Farside to be the answer (starts as a leftover, votes for mastin, then joins scum after OR a very large scum team) plus the way she interacted with us in alliance ... this is a paranoia possibility to me.

3.) We are the third possibility. This would require us to be scum and have the beach-a-palooza event and, instead of waiting awhile to use it or just never mentioning it, going and actively engaging with someone who knows us really well and ALWAYS suspects us (Titus) and getting them to help us talk through it and what to say in thread and how to use it to try and maximize catching scum, and then pop the event as soon as possibly could, creating PoE pools super early in the game. I'm obviously biased because I know for sure that we're town, but I think objectively this just isn't a play that Cerb or I would ever make. There's no amount of town credibility (especially in a game where the mod warns the game that scum had their town claims and events/abilities made before the town roles so that they would have very believable fake claims) that is worth giving town that much PoE power, objectively speaking.

If you add some other things to why #3 doesn't make sense, I think that we're OTAF at this point. Since we are showing up in potential scum pools, I'm going to outline why that's illogical (read: dumb):

1.) We knew that Xykfu was a leftover who could choose to join the Crystal gems, via Almost50, the day before Xykfu used his event to kill skybird. We knew that his plan was to ally with scumspects and tell them he was a 3p who could join either side and try to get them to admit to being scum so he could kill them with his event. We knew his event had a stress requirement.
1a.) Why is that important? Xykfu was only able to kill Skybird with his event because the scum team killed Yume out of the blue and that enabled Xykfu to use the Trap for Clods event to take out skybird. Now ... given that we knew what his plan was and the stress requirement, in what universe would a scum us have done (or not prevented team doing) the kill on Yume and raised stress enabling Xykfu to kill one of the scum team's super powerful roles (Go look at skybird's role card again if you don't remember). We would have to have been holding a planet sized idiot ball to do that, if we were scum.

This is why we kept information compartmentalized and only relayed to people were were conftown, by the way. If scum had known about Xykfu, the game state would likely be WAY different right now, if not already game over we lose

2.) Despite the fact that she always suspects us in every game ever, we earned Titus' trust before she died (Shiro can confirm if he ever gets around to being willing to read that chat). Further, we had an ability we haven't talked about. I emphasize

had

because Titus stole it from us after we told her about it and asked how we could use it with her help and misdirection. That ability could have provided conditional clears or near certain guilties, if used properly. There was a possibilty of getting that same ability given to a 2nd person and we asked Titus to help co-ordinate using it to get through the PoE pools faster and find scum using us as bait while the other person with the ability would not be outed. Shiro can, again, confirm this.

3.) Both we and MoI possess a similar ability which implies that scum has a trick up their sleeves. We claimed this ability before we were informed of MoI's abilities, so we legitimately have it, and I believe it's not at all a co-incidence that the CGs and Earth both have the ability.

4.) We knew the details of how MoI's protection worked (again, Shiro can confirm if he ever sees this and goes and checks...) and yet the scum team shot at MoI. Obviously this could be WiFoM, but in the context of this game, I think it's silly to dismiss it as evidence because "WiFoM". Specifically I'm talking about the fact that the scum team had already had a failed kill, lost a member to a Crystal Gem event, and if they were paying attention should have realized there was a lot of protection in the game. Intentionally giving up a night kill just makes no sense. It makes much more sense to believe scum didn't know about MoI's protection (and given how much other protection had been claimed prior, it would make sense for them to assume the shot would work).

I'm sure there's more, but I think that should suffice to demonstrate that we're not scum. A scum team with our knowledge simply wouldn't have done a lot of what the scum team has done this game. We were informed of so many things that hurt the scum team's chances that it borders on literally not sane to have us as anything other than "As town as one can be without being investigative/mod confirmed".

So I'm going to assume that the remaining scum are in the didn't vote for Mastin or Titus or claimed no vote pool, with Farside as a paranoia suspect. I think if you all objectively evaluate the information, you'll come to the same conclusion. Given our position, I'm pretty sure we're literally in 100% win probability territory now as long as we make no catastrophic mistakes. Presuming Fuzzy is town, I don't even think fuzzy shooting town pushes us out of 100% win probability at this point.

That said, can we please avoid squandering this? SU1 still bothers me and I don't want a repeat.

I know this is a long post, but I'd appreciate you reading it. Thanks.

Now as I see it, the scum pool is (most to least likely in my view): (Creature, TFL, Shiro, Grapes, S_S with Farside as a paranoia prospect).

Creature

- Ummm... really obvious.

TFL

- This should also be obvious I think.

Shiro

- Obviously skimming the game. Given that he missed us citing things Titus said and asking for him to confirm (and then bizarrely asked us to confirm something that isn't there), he's not really plugged in. That feels like demoralized scum (and could explain the MoI shot if Shiro is scum: if he missed the post outlining MoI's abilities or just skimmed it and missed the protection). It's also possible that it could just be lazy town assuming a win given our strong position.

Grapes

- I am tempted to put Grapes before Shiro. There's no real reason to read him either way, except for the Historical Fiction event which indicated he was targeted night one; however, there are two glaring failure points with that being used as a clear. Firstly, the event was from TWIE and TWIE chose which submitted actions to turn into truth, so it's possible that TWIE simply lied so it would look like Grapes was targeted by the scum team as an attempt to get him "cleared". The second failure point is that DGB had the ability to re-direct the scum kill. Then there's the fact that Grapes is literally coasting along at this point on this "clear" and my "gut" is bothering me a bit. (As a note, I'm not a "gut" person as I believe "gut" is just your brain telling you something is wrong but ... you get the point).

S_S

- I have a really hard time believing that the scum team were given a goon in this game. That seems absurd. Almost certainly he got stuck with the token vanilla townie slot in a role madness game. To be fair, though, that's literally the only reason to posit him as town.

Now we have 11 people alive and 1 or 2 scum seems likely. 3 is in the possibility space but that would mean SEVEN scum in a 25 person game. That means they need at least 2 mislynches and 2 successful night kills to get to MYLO (if 3 scum) but more likely they need 3 mislynches and 3 kills to get to MYLO (positing 2 remaining scum) and then they would need to get a 4th mislynch to win.

In other words ... this is probably in the bag but let's be careful just in case.

~Drixx

P.S. - Sorry for the Great Wall of Drixx here. I started putting my thoughts down and sort of got carried away.

Drixx · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:08 am

Draft Version #3:

Something about the assumptions being made in forming potential scum teams struck me as off, so I asked Varsoon whether someone who was able to double vote could have doubled their point contribution to our Beach-a-palooza event. His answer was slightly less useless than what he said in thread. He said it would depend on the role.

It is therefore

possible

that the missing half point is already accounted for. The possibilities that I can think of are:

1.) Skybird was able to count as 1 point towards the event and scum used that to set up false PoE pools. If we weren't steamrolling them, that could actually have been a really strong play as it's really late in the game and it's still not clear. Imagine if DGB didn't put her head in the noose or if Skybird didn't get killed by a gem event after Yume got zapped. Skybird being able to count as a point does make sense as a way to blunt the power of our event, given that we were able to do it so early and given how much PoE power it had. And we didn't even really get the maximum out of it due to the Not Chara getting 5 points thing.
2.) Farside could account for the point disparity, but it would require 6 groupscum and the traitor voting to help her ... OR she would have to be a leftover who joined the scum team after the event, much like the gems got a leftover after the event. I personally would discount this possibility mostly for gut reaction reasons. When we were allied with Farside I laid out my issues with her play, explained why I felt it couldn't have come from any town mindset and then asked her to explain her thinking behind each of the things she did in that stretch of really anti-town play. Instead of trying to justify herself or make a defense (as I predicted a scum or 3P solo winning Farside would), she simply said (paraphrased) "I got a really fun and cool role and I just wanted to have fun with it". So ... put together the number of things that have to be true for Farside to be the answer (starts as a leftover, votes for mastin, then joins scum after OR a very large scum team) plus the way she interacted with us in alliance ... this is a paranoia possibility to me.
3.) We are the third possibility. This would require us to be scum and have the beach-a-palooza event and, instead of waiting awhile to use it or just never mentioning it, going and actively engaging with someone who knows us really well and ALWAYS suspects us (Titus) and getting them to help us talk through it and what to say in thread and how to use it to try and maximize catching scum, and then pop the event as soon as possibly could, creating PoE pools super early in the game. I'm obviously biased because I know for sure that we're town, but I think objectively this just isn't a play that Cerb or I would ever make. There's no amount of town credibility (especially in a game where the mod warns the game that scum had their town claims and events/abilities made before the town roles so that they would have very believable fake claims) that is worth giving town that much PoE power, objectively speaking.

If you add some other things to why #3 doesn't make sense, I think that we're OTAF at this point. Since we are showing up in potential scum pools, I'm going to outline why that's illogical (read: dumb):

1.) We knew that Xykfu was a leftover who could choose to join the Crystal gems, via Almost50, early the day Xykfu used his event to kill skybird. We knew that his plan was to ally with scumspects and tell them he was a 3p who could join either side and try to get them to admit to being scum so he could kill them with his event. We knew his event had a stress requirement of +2. A50 told us like 11 and 1/2 real time days before Yume was killed.
1a.) Why is that important? Xykfu was only able to kill Skybird with his event because the scum team killed Yume out of the blue and that enabled Xykfu to use the Trap for Clods event to take out skybird. Now ... given that we knew what his plan was and the stress requirement, in what universe would a scum us have done (or not prevented team doing) the kill on Yume and raised stress enabling Xykfu to kill one of the scum team's super powerful roles (Go look at skybird's role card again if you don't remember). We would have to have been holding a planet sized idiot ball to do that, if we were scum.

This is why we kept information compartmentalized and only relayed to people were were conftown, by the way. If scum had known about Xykfu, the game state would likely be WAY different right now, if not already game over we lose

2.) Despite the fact that she always suspects us in every game ever, we earned Titus' trust before she died (Shiro can confirm if he ever gets around to being willing to read that chat). Further, we had an ability we haven't talked about. I emphasize

had

because Titus stole it from us after we told her about it and asked how we could use it with her help and misdirection. That ability could have provided conditional clears or near certain guilties, if used properly. There was a possibilty of getting that same ability given to a 2nd person and we asked Titus to help co-ordinate using it to get through the PoE pools faster and find scum using us as bait while the other person with the ability would not be outed. Shiro can, again, confirm this. Ask him about my initial reaction to Titus stealing our role (or make a note to read yourself post game) if you want a laugh.

3.) Both we and MoI possess a similar ability which implies that scum has a trick up their sleeves. We claimed this ability before we were informed of MoI's abilities, so we legitimately have it, and I believe it's not at all a co-incidence that the CGs and Earth both have the ability.

4.) We knew the details of how MoI's protection worked (again, Shiro can confirm if he ever sees this and goes and checks...) and yet the scum team shot at MoI. Obviously this could be WiFoM, but in the context of this game, I think it's silly to dismiss it as evidence because "WiFoM". Specifically I'm talking about the fact that the scum team had already had a failed kill, lost a member to a Crystal Gem event, and if they were paying attention should have realized there was a lot of protection in the game. Intentionally giving up a night kill just makes no sense. It makes much more sense to believe scum didn't know about MoI's protection (and given how much other protection had been claimed prior, it would make sense for them to assume the shot would work).

I'm sure there's more, but I think that should suffice to demonstrate that we're not scum. A scum team with our knowledge simply wouldn't have done a lot of what the scum team has done this game. We were informed of so many things that hurt the scum team's chances that it borders on literally not sane to have us as anything other than "As town as one can be without being investigative/mod confirmed".

So I'm going to assume that the remaining scum are in the didn't vote for Mastin or Titus or claimed no vote pool, with Farside as a paranoia suspect. I think if you all objectively evaluate the information, you'll come to the same conclusion. Given our position, I'm pretty sure we're literally in 100% win probability territory now as long as we make no catastrophic mistakes. Presuming Fuzzy is town, I don't even think fuzzy shooting town pushes us out of 100% win probability at this point.

That said, can we please avoid squandering this? SU1 still bothers me and I don't want a repeat.

I know this is a long post, but I'd appreciate you reading it. Thanks.

Now as I see it, the scum pool is (most to least likely in my view): (Creature, TFL, Shiro, Grapes, S_S with Farside as a paranoia prospect).

Creature

- Ummm... really obvious.

TFL

- This should also be obvious I think.

Shiro

- Obviously skimming the game. Given that he missed us citing things Titus said and asking for him to confirm (and then bizarrely asked us to confirm something that isn't there), he's not really plugged in. That feels like demoralized scum (and could explain the MoI shot if Shiro is scum: if he missed the post outlining MoI's abilities or just skimmed it and missed the protection). It's also possible that it could just be lazy town assuming a win given our strong position.

Grapes

- I am tempted to put Grapes before Shiro. There's no real reason to read him either way, except for the Historical Fiction event which indicated he was targeted night one; however, there are two glaring failure points with that being used as a clear. Firstly, the event was from TWIE and TWIE chose which submitted actions to turn into truth, so it's possible that TWIE simply lied so it would look like Grapes was targeted by the scum team as an attempt to get him "cleared". The second failure point is that DGB had the ability to re-direct the scum kill. Then there's the fact that Grapes is literally coasting along at this point on this "clear" and my "gut" is bothering me a bit. (As a note, I'm not a "gut" person as I believe "gut" is just your brain telling you something is wrong but ... you get the point).

S_S

- I have a really hard time believing that the scum team were given a goon in this game. That seems absurd. Almost certainly he got stuck with the token vanilla townie slot in a role madness game. To be fair, though, that's literally the only reason to posit him as town.

Now we have 11 people alive and 1 or 2 scum seems likely. 3 is in the possibility space but that would mean SEVEN scum in a 25 person game. That means they need at least 2 mislynches and 2 successful night kills to get to MYLO (if 3 scum) but more likely they need 3 mislynches and 3 kills to get to MYLO (positing 2 remaining scum) and then they would need to get a 4th mislynch to win.

In other words ... this is probably in the bag but let's be careful just in case.

~Drixx

P.S. - Sorry for the Great Wall of Drixx here. I started putting my thoughts down and sort of got carried away.

Drixx · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:38 pm

post draft:

EVERYONE knew the plan Farside. There was only one confirmed town in the game before Titus popped IC, and Titus popped IC such that it showed up right as Beach-a-palooza started, and the main thread was locked during beach-a-palooza voting. The only confirmed town before that was Mastin, confirmed by Yume saying that Varsoon mod-confirmed Mastin as town and Mastin explicitly trusted Yume despite the confirmation being only one way, which meant that Yume had to be unimpeachably town. Yume also said some things that made it pretty clear she was Steven. We planned the whole thing with Titus in an attempt to leverage our event into the strongest possible position.

Additionally: Stop the cherry picking. It's not useful. You know because I told you so that Cerb believes you are a third party threat (and given that you are lynchproof AND night kill immune, he sort of might have a point?), so when you're talking to me and I'm intentionally avoiding having a shitfest in the thread with you, kindly don't quote someone hostile to you and pretend like it represents my thoughts. It's hydra dissonance and it shouldn't exist, but in this particular case Cerb and I disagree. I think you are just what you claimed and the best possible thing is to assume you are going to disappear from the game and get an independant win and we should account for it and move the fuck on.

ESPECIALLY since you started the day by telling us you caught scum trying to kill you and you named them.

I mean seriously I don't give a shit if you win as long as it doesn't cost town our win. At this point, if Cerb is right and you've been bullshitting and you really need to get your points to achieve your wincon, now is the time to admit it and ask us to give you your points so you can GTFO and we can account for the numbers change. Given that you can't be lynched and you apparently can't be killed either, it seems likely that you cannot actually win with us as you claimed. That lines up with your play and it all fits very neatly. Positing you as a town OR third party who has to escape from the game is becoming increasingly difficult to reconcile with the rest of the game.

Cerberus v666 · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:02 pm

cerberus_v6.66 [3:36 PM]
Lol

[3:37]
If we live to end game, it will be 100% because of your realization that our power would make is gulty to a gunsmith as town

drixx [3:38 PM]
The places where our minds don't overlap are why we hydra so well

[3:38]
imo

cerberus_v6.66 [3:39 PM]
Like, I would love if someone has else has a gunsmith and uses it on us

[3:39]
And we get Yume and mastin defending the guilty and saying we privately claimed it already

drixx [3:42 PM]
My biggest hope is that we succesfully detached Yume from just sheeping whatever Mastin says

cerberus_v6.66 [3:42 PM]
Yeah

[3:43]
Not killing mastin here might be a mistake.

[3:43]
Because having just skybird influencing Yume would be good

[3:43]
But discrediting mastin is just as good I hope

drixx [4:11 PM]
I think we should kill mastin

[4:11]
Mastin's protection is almost certainly Yume

[4:11]
Mastin softened here stance on us and wanted to kill someone else tomorrow as her last declaration

[4:12]
we can easily deflect any suspicion her death might bring our way, and she could have just been not talking about us until after our event

[4:12]
we don't KNOW that Yume's read on us is why Mastin stopped talking about us

[4:12]
and her suggesting someone else to die tomorrow could be intended to get us to think she has softened on us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:13 PM]
But..we want the gems dead

[4:13]
And we know mastin isn't on

[4:13]
As long as they're around we can get bubbled..;(

[4:14]
Town also certainly has multiple protectives

[4:14]
We know they have one BP

[4:14]
And a BG

[4:14]
They likely have a doctor as well

[4:14]
Because of the strongman power we have and the default strongman

[4:15]
Plus grapes lived through our kill yesterday

[4:15]
So either skybird got roleblocked (in which case I would have expected SOME ONE to pressure her a lot)

[4:16]
Or there's another protective

[4:17]
?

drixx [4:19 PM]
we don't know WHY grapes lived

cerberus_v6.66 [4:19 PM]
I already said that.

[4:19]
By presenting two possibilities

drixx [4:20 PM]
well ... I'm just saying that Mastin alive is the one thing I am not sure we can for sure get out of

[4:20]
in SMITE I kept her around just long enough and then took her out

cerberus_v6.66 [4:20 PM]
Play makes the second more likely than the first

drixx [4:20 PM]
and then I was much more free and I fooled even Tammy

[4:20]
of course, every time Tammy plays with me she's now sure I'm scum lol

cerberus_v6.66 [4:21 PM]
Idk, I'm not actually that concerned about mastin

[4:21]
Maybe I'm underestimating her

drixx [4:21 PM]
she's smart enough to have gone dark about us only to come out tomorrow after the event and hard push us

[4:21]
and we MAYBE have Yume to step up and defend us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:22 PM]
But the only reason I was afraid before was because she had a flip right in her fscor

[4:22]
With a flip wrong, and her spec wrong

[4:22]
I very much doubt she can get us lynched

drixx [4:23 PM]
Mastin is charismatic and was mod-confirmed town to Yume

[4:23]
we can only question that if we question Yume ... and we can't question Yume

cerberus_v6.66 [4:23 PM]
Yes

drixx [4:23 PM]
I'm not sure we win a 1v1 against Mastin

cerberus_v6.66 [4:23 PM]
And even when she had everything in her fagor

drixx [4:23 PM]
all we have to claim is our finale ability

[4:23]
our event will be spent

cerberus_v6.66 [4:23 PM]
The wagon was up to 8

[4:23]
And stalled hard

[4:23]
Then fell

drixx [4:24 PM]
there will be litte reason to keep us alive since once we claim our finale ability, it's expected value if we're town vanishes before the next finale

[4:24]
scum would get rid of us if it's a problem for them

[4:24]
so it won't save us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:24 PM]
I suppose firebringer is the wild card here

[4:24]
Umm

[4:24]
That's a good thing

[4:24]
No reason to keep us alive means no reason we should be dead.

drixx [4:25 PM]
I guess it will all come down to Mastin's credibility

[4:25]
let's risk it

[4:25]
here's my thinking

cerberus_v6.66 [4:25 PM]
If you sincerely think we shouldn't we can risk missing another kill. ;p

drixx [4:25 PM]
our ability is almost exactly what I used as a fake claim in SMITE to win

[4:26]
she should know our ability

cerberus_v6.66 [4:26 PM]
There's benefits to both shots.

drixx [4:26 PM]
she may have told her PT(s) that if she dies, come after us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:26 PM]
Is KC the best kill?

drixx [4:26 PM]
KC is a kill that should go through

cerberus_v6.66 [4:26 PM]
If we're leaving mastin alive?

drixx [4:26 PM]
and should lead to a DGB lynch

[4:26]
but the thing is ... if DGB is the traitor, that lynch hurts us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:26 PM]
She isnt

[4:27]
I already established that

drixx [4:27 PM]
how?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:27 PM]
Highly improbable

[4:27]
She's ascetic

[4:27]
Our traitor check wouldn't have worked on her.

[4:27]
Outside chance she fake claimed that part

drixx [4:27 PM]
she claimed asceit

[4:27]
doesn't mean she is

cerberus_v6.66 [4:27 PM]
But unlikely imo

drixx [4:27 PM]
DGB claims all kinds of shit

[4:28]
and after having claimed to be traitor, it's in her best interests to throw lots of claims out

[4:28]
and just say the traitor claim was a gambit

cerberus_v6.66 [4:28 PM]
Sure, but she fake claims like four thinfs

[4:28]
And the one she says is true is the one that makes her a suspect because it happened late?

drixx [4:28 PM]
I think it's intention

[4:28]
intentional

[4:28]
the traitor would put out signals right?

[4:29]
have you seen ANY other signals at all?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:29 PM]
From DGB? nope. Just fbs stuff

drixx [4:29 PM]
from anyone else?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:29 PM]
Nope

drixx [4:29 PM]
and one mechanic I've seen for recruitment is if you try and kill the traitor you recruit them instead

[4:29]
it's irritating that Varsoon tells us there is a traitor but not how we recruit them

[4:29]
having to guess is bullshit

cerberus_v6.66 [4:29 PM]
That's always been known

[4:29]
From.what I've seen

[4:30]
Like, if that's the mechanic, the scum team knows

drixx [4:30 PM]
this is varsoon

cerberus_v6.66 [4:30 PM]
Whether or not their kill will kill the traitor

drixx [4:30 PM]
the normal rules go out the window

cerberus_v6.66 [4:30 PM]
Naw

[4:31]
I'm certain we kill the traitor if we shoot them..

[4:31]
Imagine if Titus was the traitor. ;p

drixx [4:32 PM]
then you already identified the right kill

[4:32]
I just don't think we should do the kill

[4:32]
but I also don't think skybird should

[4:32]
I guess if we have to choose between just those two, it should be us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:32 PM]
Yep

drixx [4:32 PM]
but I feel like I succeeded with my play day two in getting us from dead slot talking into the town block

cerberus_v6.66 [4:32 PM]
Can't risk the strongman+triple voter alternating roleblocker/bg

drixx [4:33 PM]
and with me basically scolding the other strong town

[4:33]
now they made a big mistake

[4:33]
which we'll see in the morning

[4:33]
I think we have the chance to become the town leader

cerberus_v6.66 [4:33 PM]
Sure

drixx [4:33 PM]
also ... we should talk sometime about the theory of scum play

[4:33]
I don't want to be hypercritical because you have little experience with it AND your mind works in a way that hurts you for the way I play scum

[4:34]
we're sort of incompatible as a hydra for scum

cerberus_v6.66 [4:34 PM]
Lol yeah.

drixx [4:34 PM]
like ... did you see the method behind what I did during day 2 (when I wasn't dealing with my shitty shoulder)?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:35 PM]
You're being too vague

[4:35]
You did a couple things

drixx [4:36 PM]
it's not specifics

[4:36]
This is what I'm talking about. You're so analytical that you are looking for some mechanical thing but it's not mechanical

[4:37]
it's a carefree mindset that comes across as town

cerberus_v6.66 [4:37 PM]
Umm. I'm not looking for a mechanical thing

[4:37]
I just don't know if you're referring to the waybyou spoke in thread defending us

drixx [4:37 PM]
okay

cerberus_v6.66 [4:37 PM]
The way you spoke at the end of the day

[4:37]
The waybyou approached yume

[4:37]
The gambit you ran

[4:37]
Etc.

[4:37]
I don't know which one you're asking me about.

drixx [4:37 PM]
once I thought we were going to get lynched anyway, I just started running gambits to look town

[4:38]
everything I did was aimed at making us look like the RR people were looking for

[4:38]
the way I phrased things

[4:38]
I literally sectioned off the part of my mind that knew who our partners are and even knew I was scum

[4:39]
I made myself think of us as town and legitimately in pursuit of a town win

[4:39]
does that make sense?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:42 PM]
Sure.

[4:43]
I mean, it sounds like what evwryone does when scum..p

[4:43]
Or tries to do at least

drixx [5:05 PM]
I don't know how to express it in a way where you will go "oh! I can do that!"

[5:05]
you seem to feel like you can't play scum

[5:05]
just ... don't play scum

[5:06]
look at how town just totally imploded on themselves day 2

[5:06]
we went from dead slot talking to potentially the slot town looks to

cerberus_v6.66 [5:06 PM]
I don't feel like I can't play scum?

[5:07]
I feel like it's a pain in the ass to drag a useless team along behind me

drixx [5:08 PM]
okay

[5:08]
then stop beating yourelf up if you make a mistake

[5:08]
town makes mistakes all the time

cerberus_v6.66 [5:08 PM]
Oh

[5:08]
That's not an alignmenr thing

[5:09]
I just expect a lot from myself

drixx [5:24 PM]
so the "how" was simple: we didn't disappear once pressure disappeared from us

[5:24]
for most people, that's a HUGE town indicator

[5:24]
town stays engaged even when the wagon moves away from them

[5:24]
I also think you figuring out the 3rd party thing helps a lot

cerberus_v6.66 [5:24 PM]
Makes sense

drixx [5:24 PM]
even if people don't believe us, that's the kind of thing we do. We figure out the setup and how to most efficiently pursue our win con

cerberus_v6.66 [5:25 PM]
Yeah

drixx [5:30 PM]
TWIE seems confused

drixx [6:52 PM]
Dude

[6:53]
Look at our "Search for Jasper" exposition event

[6:53]
look at the first piece of information it returns

cerberus_v6.66 [6:54 PM]
I'm aware

[6:54]
What are you seeing that I'm not?

drixx [6:54 PM]
I wasn't even accounting for that when I was thinking about the third party theory

[6:56]
btw ... I think we shot ourselves in the foot asking about the events thing

[6:56]
we need the meter to move in time for the finale

[6:57]
and a mislynch happened which means we're really dealing with +2 and now need -5 cumulative to trigger

cerberus_v6.66 [6:57 PM]
Yeah

----- September 29th -----
drixx [12:32 PM]
A50 is a treasure trove of info and a huge land mine if he's testing us in any way

[12:32]
Just read his dump

cerberus_v6.66 [12:38 PM]
Mhm

[12:39]
He's honest though

[12:39]
100~

[12:39]
His crumbing is just...so perfectly him

drixx [12:39 PM]
oh yeah; he's honest about his role and certainly town

[12:39]
I'm a little skeptical of some of his info but I think people simply misled him

cerberus_v6.66 [12:39 PM]
I'm a little irritated about this though

[12:40]
I wanted to kill xkfyu tonight

[12:40]
But now we kinda can't

[12:40]
Kill only makes sense if we know he's a gem

drixx [12:40 PM]
I wish Titus had ICd a day later

cerberus_v6.66 [12:40 PM]
Lol why?

drixx [12:41 PM]
being able to demonstrate our ability to hammer and have them have no escape (immediate flip) could be used to great effect to demonstrate that there is at least one resurrect ability in play and to get people to buy the third party faction

[12:42]
the 3rd party having a "traitor" makes perfect sense too

[12:42]
this is basically The Crystal Gems vs. The Homeworld Rubies with the humans caught in the crossfire

[12:43]
it's too bad A50 didn't really have a season chat with xkfyu

[12:43]
we could have made them both go look at SC's flip and realize the leader of the scum team is dead

cerberus_v6.66 [12:45 PM]
Mhm

cerberus_v6.66 [12:55 PM]
Can you engage SC?

[12:55]
I mean A50 lol

drixx [12:56 PM]
just did

cerberus_v6.66 [12:59 PM]
Cool, thanks

[12:59]
Irritated thar we didn't Lready know about A50s alliance power

[1:00]
SC should have know but didn't realize, got confused by their being two PTS I assume

[1:00]
I feel like we want to correct him where he's wronf

[1:01]
About mastin not being a gem

[1:02]
And Yume being likely to be steven because of the bg and because mastin(who Yume crumbed was centipeetle) having an event that gave her a pt with her

[1:02]
Fb could be bismuth.

[1:02]
Pearl, peridot, and bismuth are the gems that make things.

[1:03]
Xkfyu is peridot...but fbs talk of scum and Homeworld gems doesn't make sense for pearl or bismuth.

[1:04]
And DGB is again claiming to have mod confirmed guilty on a slot.

[1:04]
And asking for partners

[1:04]
So..um...legit traitor?

[1:04]
Or what?

drixx [1:04 PM]
legit traitor I think

[1:05]
but we don't know the recruit mechanic

[1:05]
best way for that to play out is for him to be like "Seriously? You think I haven't been paying attention?"

cerberus_v6.66 [1:11 PM]
Yeah.

cerberus_v6.66 [9:08 PM]
So...what do we want to tell A50?

drixx [9:23 PM]
we could go full disclosure

[9:23]
I feel like we need to probably make him earn that though

cerberus_v6.66 [9:25 PM]
From you, yes. For me....sorta? That rambling thing he went off on is just so like the message he sent me in bloodborne

[9:26]
We need to press him on his thoughts about why SC allied him

[9:26]
(Since allying his scum partners makes rhe most sense)

[9:26]
And have him clarify if his joyride specifcally had those characters auto selected, or if he was the one who chose who came

drixx [9:29 PM]
unless you think it has to come from me, you should do that

[9:29]
we don't want me to be the only one pushing people and running gambits

cerberus_v6.66 [9:29 PM]
Umm

[9:30]
I've done approximately infinitely more things in the thread than you.

drixx [9:30 PM]
Missing the trees for the forest

[9:30]
Titus said she got a town read on our slot based upon what?

[9:30]
Who gambited yume in private?

[9:31]
if you don't go to work in private, and people start comparing notes, it will be super obvious you're mostly posting publicly and I'm mostly privately

[9:31]
and probalby I need to post mre in the main thread

cerberus_v6.66 [9:33 PM]
This is a dumb conversation path to go down

[9:34]
I'll ask him about that stuff in a bit.

drixx [9:34 PM]
sorry

[9:35]
wasn't intending to start a dumb conversation path

cerberus_v6.66 [9:36 PM]
Aimed more at myself so I wouldn't give into the temptation to get into a pissing contest with you about contributions.

drixx [9:37 PM]
if you want me to do more, just ask

[9:37]
I wasn't asserting anything about less or more

cerberus_v6.66 [9:40 PM]
I don't want you to do more. Just find the assertion that there's such a difference between my main thread and private thread presence that it would somehow cause a problem surprising, to say the least. That's all.

drixx [10:12 PM]
the only reason it ocurred to me is because Titus made a point of noting dissonance. I'm just probably worried about nothing

cerberus_v6.66 [10:12 PM]
Umm, that's because there was dissonance

[10:12]
Deliberately

[10:13]
And for good cause since we hadn't been talking at that point.

----- September 30th -----
drixx [9:05 AM]
so umm ... Shadow_Step appears to maybe be Sonic by his avatar

[9:06]
also he doesn't appear to at all know the gamestate

cerberus_v6.66 [9:12 AM]
Lol

[9:12]
Yeah. "Didn't vote for Titus the IC because I didn't trust her"

....

drixx [9:12 AM]
he wanted TWIE to claim to have done beach-a-palooza

[9:13]
like ... I'm afraid of having that guy on our team

[9:13]
also, I'm sorry if anything I said last night came across as offensive

cerberus_v6.66 [9:13 AM]
Not offensive

drixx [9:14 AM]
other chan

cerberus_v6.66 [9:14 AM]
Made me feel like I had to defend my contributions, when like...I was pretty sure I had said lots everywhere.

[9:14]
And okies

drixx [9:16 AM]
Nah I wasn't trying to talk about quality or quantity of posting at all

[9:16]
I was only concerned because Titus specifically mentioned having two separate reads on us

cerberus_v6.66 [9:17 AM]
Untrue

[9:17]
She did not say that

[9:17]
Shiro said that

[9:17]
She just said it was uncharacteristic for us to not be onnthe same page

drixx [9:17 AM]
I thought it was implicit, but what I'm worried about is probably a dumb thing to worry about

cerberus_v6.66 [9:17 AM]
And that bothered her

[9:18]
It was the fact of the dissonance that bothered here aa far as I can tell

drixx [9:18 AM]
so yeah, sorry that there was any textual implicitness there

cerberus_v6.66 [9:18 AM]
Not the details

[9:18]
Could be wrong of course, but rhats how I read ir

[9:18]
Anyways, I'll be back in a bit, gotta unload the machine

drixx [9:19 AM]
no worries

[9:19]
I think we can stay alive all the way and win this

cerberus_v6.66 [10:10 AM]
Not unlikely.

[10:10]
Our current best case scenario for a win is...let me think

[10:11]
We can control a total of 7 votes

[10:11]
So need the game down to 14 before we lose anyone else.

drixx [10:11 AM]
8 deaths

cerberus_v6.66 [10:11 AM]
Yes

[10:12]
Assume cluster won't trigger

[10:12]
Because it won't

drixx [10:12 AM]
we MIGHT get 2 from cluster because when finale comes and nobody dies, town will assume they succeeded in stopping it

cerberus_v6.66 [10:12 AM]
No

[10:12]
Before the threshold will drop so much

[10:12]
By the next finale

[10:12]
*because (

[10:13]
Town will stop forgoing actions, but they'll need way less actions

[10:13]
Also, with our knowledge of third parties....

[10:13]
The threshold may be lower

[10:13]
I need to check the wordinf

[10:13]
If it's equal to town, or equal to non scum.

[10:14]
We can probably get xkfyu to shoot the wrong person though

[10:14]
And we have a remote detonator kill

drixx [10:14 AM]
equal to the total of non-scum

cerberus_v6.66 [10:14 AM]
So 3 lynches to victory IF we remove all the gems+somehow get the traitor on the same page as us

drixx [10:15 AM]
there are freaking clues all over the place that this isn't a standard scum/town setup

[10:15]
*bow*

cerberus_v6.66 [10:15 AM]
2 lynches to victory IF the cluster works plus everything rlse

drixx [10:15 AM]
well ... Titus popped an event that put stress down 2

cerberus_v6.66 [10:16 AM]
With no further loss of our teammates, but without removing all the gems, it's 4 lynches to victory.

[10:17]
We won't be able to trigger the cluster unless stress is dropped by 4.

[10:17]
During the exposition

drixx [10:18 AM]
it's a climax and resolves during the climax, so we need 3 more stress lost

[10:18]
basically a strong town event day triggered could do it

[10:18]
a weak event and one of our team dead does it

[10:18]
rather the town uses events to do it though

cerberus_v6.66 [10:18 AM]
No, we need 4, because we don't know how a gems death affects stress

drixx [10:18 AM]
like obviously Titus doesn't think it's a big deal because she used an event just to become IC when she was townread

[10:19]
I don't get that

cerberus_v6.66 [10:19 AM]
Since KCs flip is probably going to happen at day end

[10:19]
Someone else may have used the event

[10:19]
Something that publicly reveals someone's alignment

drixx [10:19 AM]
that's basically a public cop and Varsoon hates cops

[10:19]
her play looks a lot like a delayed IC now that she's IC

cerberus_v6.66 [10:19 AM]
Sure.

[10:19]
Amd yeah, it does

[10:20]
Her desire to be scumread makes sense

[10:20]
Followed by her bp claim when it wasn't working

drixx [10:20 AM]
yeah

[10:20]
I'm curious why she popped it then though; was she that frustrated by Farside?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:20 AM]
BUT I think she might legitimately be bp?

drixx [10:21 AM]
she seemed to think that the passive BP was much more valuable than gunsmith+ or lightning rod

[10:21]
assuming she triggered the reveal... could she be hoping the prize comes to her?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:22 AM]
Because of the CC to SC AND the certainty that a missed kill must have been due to someone shooting at her.

[10:22]
Sure she's hoping

[10:22]
She kept talking about how if she had it it would take scum a bunch of kills to remove her

[10:22]
Oh the tesurrectio is a thing

[10:23]
That potentially delays any win by one day, unless we kill the resurrectir before

[10:23]
Is my general plan of removing all gems a good call?

[10:23]
I'm not sure

drixx [10:24 AM]
we lack enough information to be sure

[10:24]
If Yume was town reading us and the Crystal Gems are basically their own faction who win independently or with either other faction, she would say they win with town

[10:24]
we can't know their wincon till a flip

[10:25]
I thought of a solution to our vote dilemma

[10:25]
2 of us vote Titus, 2 of us vote Yume

[10:25]
that should guarantee that there are 3 people on the points list

[10:25]
you and I can claim the Yume vote and just say we hoped people would have realized why she should get the win

cerberus_v6.66 [10:31 AM]
Mmm

[10:31]
That's not consistent with what se told her and mastin though

cerberus_v6.66 [11:33 AM]
Around?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:28 PM]
Only a couple hours to resolve this.

[6:28]
Do we just use the plan I suggested and hope there's a third person with at least a few votes?

[6:29]
If we see numbers that are bad, like only one person with one vote

[6:29]
We can just have claim an equal split between the top 2

[6:29]
So it's not clear who is lying.

drixx [6:30 PM]
that's why I suggested 2 on Titus and 2 on Yume

[6:30]
We can claim to have voted for Yume in order to ensure that a mass vote claim would create PoE pools

[6:31]
Skybird can say she voted Titus because Titus became IC at start of day

[6:31]
that leaves TWIE and Shadow who would have to lie either way.

cerberus_v6.66 [6:31 PM]
I don't understand why we need to say we voted for yume

[6:32]
That doesn't make sense

drixx [6:32 PM]
if we don't vote in such a way to make sure there will be 3 people on the list, then nobody can say they voted for someone not on the list

cerberus_v6.66 [6:32 PM]
As I said

drixx [6:32 PM]
that means at least two of our team have to lie about voting for Mastin and if a mass "who did you vote for?" claim happens, that puts them in the PoE pool irrevocably?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:33 PM]
IF that happens then skybird and us say we voted mastin

[6:33]
Twie and SS voted titus

[6:33]
Only two lists

[6:33]
Neither one will match up

[6:33]
Both will be off by 1

drixx [6:33 PM]
so we all vote Titus

[6:33]
and there's no way to really PoE?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:33 PM]
So they'll be two PoE pools with two scum in them

[6:35]
I think the pools end up similar either way? But if we arrange things so if there ARE 3 names the points all match expectations...it means there could be no pools

[6:35]
Am I making sense?

[6:35]
I don't fully understand your suggestions pros and cons

[6:36]
I know mine basically makes it so we end up with either no PoE pools, or two pools with 2 scum in each, or scum voting for their ally and one scum not voting at al

[6:36]
I think

[6:36]
I'm not sure what the permutations of your plan are

[6:36]
Only one claims to have voted titus

[6:36]
We claim to have voted yume

[6:37]
But that's only one point

[6:37]
That's role pm length comparing

[6:37]
We'd need to all vote for yume, and have two of us claim it, while the other two claim votes for randoms

[6:38]
I mean, if anyone votes for themselves, it's automatically 3

[6:38]
I find it unlikely that there won't be at least one person who votes for themselves and gets their partner to vote for them, besides titus

[6:38]
I expect there to be 10+ on mastin, several on titus, and exactly 5 on someone else

[6:39]
If we all vote titus..what would we be claiming?

[6:40]
Skybird and us say we voted mastin

[6:40]
SS and twie say titus

[6:40]
Mastin list has expected number of points

[6:40]
Titus list is short 1 point

[6:41]
So there's 2 scum in the pool of JUST the titus claimers.

[6:41]
I mean, that's a great plan if we're going to bus TWIE and SS

drixx [6:41 PM]
and we have to be the ones working out the PoE pools so we need a better plan

cerberus_v6.66 [6:41 PM]
That's ehy I want there to be a chance that no PoE is possible

drixx [6:42 PM]
How do we do that?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:42 PM]
My initial suggestion

[6:42]
All four on mastin

[6:42]
Skybird and us claim mastin

[6:43]
If there are 3 people listed

[6:43]
And the third has at least 2 points

[6:43]
(3+ preferably) twie and SS can claim votes for random slots

drixx [6:43 PM]
okay

cerberus_v6.66 [6:44 PM]
That makes it so IF there are 3, the point lists all match up

[6:44]
If there are only two, or the numbers are too low on the two

drixx [6:44 PM]
but TWIE and SS have to have good reasons why they didn't follow the plan

cerberus_v6.66 [6:44 PM]
Wel, they didn't know the plan. ;p

[6:44]
But yeah

drixx [6:44 PM]
SS can honestly say he didn't realize there was one (because he doesn't)

cerberus_v6.66 [6:44 PM]
That's the first thing

drixx [6:45 PM]
TWIE is well known for being quiet earlier but he follows along usually right?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:45 PM]
They need to be able to explain away suboptimal play

[6:45]
Hell, if the person in third has like 5/6 points

[6:45]
Twie can claim to have voted for himself

[6:45]
Because his power is GREAT with the lightning rod

[6:46]
It would let him identify the entire setup and catch at least one scum.

drixx [6:46 PM]
that would be nice

cerberus_v6.66 [6:46 PM]
Well, it won't happen

[6:46]
Because the game has conftowns. ^p

[6:46]
But itst a good claim

drixx [6:46 PM]
I really wish I knew where we stand with Mastin

cerberus_v6.66 [6:46 PM]
Very reasonable explanation for not voting titus/mastin, clear mechanical reason

[6:47]
Based on a slot whose information he should know

drixx [6:47 PM]
so SS claims ignorance of the plan, TWIE just says he was hoping there would be a lot of point spread and he could self-vote and use his ability along with Lightning Rod?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:47 PM]
Only problem is it's 3 points, so only works if the third slot gets lots of points

[6:47]
And well know where we stand today.

[6:48]
Yes, that seems like a sound plan

drixx [6:48 PM]
You told A50 that Skybird is the one with a PT with Steven and he didn't even blink

cerberus_v6.66 [6:48 PM]
If there's a high value on the third

[6:48]
If there isn't, but it's still 3+

[6:48]
He needs to figure out a different reaaon

[6:48]
This is worst case though

[6:48]
I really expect there to be one person with 5 votes.

[6:49]
That's publicly known?

[6:49]
It was announced when she used her eve t

[6:49]
Driving to look over the lease agreement thingie.

drixx [6:50 PM]
derp

cerberus_v6.66 [6:50 PM]
If you agree with the outline of the plan, please share with the rest of the team?

[6:50]
Or I'll do it later?

drixx [6:51 PM]
I can do it

cerberus_v6.66 [6:52 PM]
In a way a perfect response with no flaws points to us

[6:52]
Or is that paranoia?

drixx [6:53 PM]
Scum would obviously be forced to go with our stated plan in order to blend in

[6:53]
it's the most obvious move

cerberus_v6.66 [8:59 PM]
hm

[8:59]
so

[8:59]
mathblades flip occurred before the night end

[8:59]
If the person who controls the power can choose when the flip happens

[8:59]
why would they keep it delayed?

drixx [9:12 PM]
I assume they have some kind of limited shot ability to resurrect someone

[9:13]
and the variable timing makes sense if they're discussing it with others

cerberus_v6.66 [9:13 PM]
I guess

drixx [9:13 PM]
I mean ... Yume confirmed we were right but... there's still a limit to what we know and can count on and what we think is probable

cerberus_v6.66 [9:13 PM]
Yeah

drixx [9:13 PM]
and you know Varsoon likes to be unpredictable

cerberus_v6.66 [9:15 PM]
Just would be most helpful to town ro see flips before the day ends.

[9:15]
I suppose this is the first time, so they might just reveal the flip asap

drixx [11:36 PM]
wow

[11:36]
we totally could have thrown our weight to Titus and she would probalby have taken the BP

[11:36]
7, 6, 5 with Not Chara getting significant votes...

----- October 1st -----
drixx [2:02 AM]
what do you think of the pseudo-guilty Titus is claiming?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:21 AM]
Yeah, if we had all voted titus she would have 100% got it. 2 point swing, from 7:6 to 8:5. Plus A50, so 9:4.

[2:21]
Town is dumb

[2:21]
Whatever

[2:22]
Anyways. There's no benefit to thinking about it

[2:22]
Either she could track us or something

[2:22]
Or she couldn't

[2:22]
Nobody else on our team she could have got a guilty on

[2:22]
Because we're the only ones with targeted actions.

[2:23]
It probably wasn't on us though

[2:23]
I think it's pseudo because she knows someone performed an action

[2:23]
When evwryone should have been holding

drixx [2:23 AM]
if she had anything remotely resembling a guilty on us she would be on us like stink on shit

cerberus_v6.66 [2:23 AM]
Yeah

[2:24]
So, someone tool an action last night

[2:24]
*took*

[2:24]
And she knows about it

[2:24]
And is suspicious

[2:24]
I want an alliance with fb and random. ; (

[2:24]
Sick of talking to titus

[2:25]
I would be amazed if she finds it possible to scumread us after a 3p flip happens

[2:25]
So I don't feel there's any further need to work on her.

drixx [2:26 AM]
fair enough

[2:26]
I am hoping to get us so solidly in the town block that nobody will believe we're scum

cerberus_v6.66 [2:26 AM]
Yeah

[2:26]
I understand

drixx [2:27 AM]
That probably involves Titus dying

[2:27]
like she's pressing for reads

cerberus_v6.66 [2:27 AM]
And honestly, wanting to ally with conftown is what we'd do.

drixx [2:27 AM]
well we DO have a shit load of information

cerberus_v6.66 [2:27 AM]
But we'd want a safe pt

[2:27]
And I don't believe we could agree on who the third party should be

[2:28]
For a safe pt.

drixx [2:28 AM]
I'm not sure if Titus pushed for reads because she actually has doubts or if she's trying to shift focus away from her lynch that she convinced us to help with ended up being a mislynch (although hilariously we weren't on the vote)

[2:28]
yeah I already kind of hinted at the need for a safe place to talk to her

[2:28]
trying to gauge her temparature

cerberus_v6.66 [2:28 AM]
She and mastin are going to try to bury mathblades lynch

drixx [2:28 AM]
also I'd like to be more active in thread this day phase

cerberus_v6.66 [2:29 AM]
Titus should be all over that wagon

[2:29]
It was a super easy push for scum to jump on

drixx [2:29 AM]
yep

cerberus_v6.66 [2:29 AM]
And instead she just...dismisses it and says some crap about not wanting g to be sheeped

[2:30]
Beezy, everybody thought you were town before, and nobody was sheeping you then, why would they sheep you now??

[2:31]
If we could trigger the cluster btw, it would certainly succeed

[2:31]
With how screwed up alliances were yesterdsy

[2:31]
*yesterday*

[2:31]
Unfortunately, that won't happen.

drixx [2:32 AM]
we would need a town to trigger an event they can trigger during the day plus we'd have to sacrifice a team member

[2:32]
and the townies who would get killed would probably not be the ones we WANT to kill

cerberus_v6.66 [2:32 AM]
And no, that wouldn't woek

[2:32]
Because of the delay

drixx [2:32 AM]
well we don't know what KC's flip will do to stress

cerberus_v6.66 [2:33 AM]
Stress wouldn't get to -3 until after we'd lost our chance

drixx [2:33 AM]
the cluster is climax finale

[2:33]
so tomorrow night

[2:33]
we have today, tonight and tomorrow for stress to move

[2:33]
right?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:34 AM]
Oh

[2:34]
You're right, it's exposition

[2:35]
Well, you're not right

[2:35]
Okau, you are

[2:35]
Yeah

[2:35]
We have all of tomorrow EXCEPT for the flip

[2:36]
So nk flip won't count

[2:36]
Dunno what KCs flip will do

[2:37]
Problem is I have my doubts about town being able to trigger an event that would lower the stress while at 0 stress.

[2:38]
Also...return to earth seems unbearably bad

drixx [2:38 AM]
yeah that's not an event we want to trigger I don't think

cerberus_v6.66 [2:38 AM]
I don't understand why we'd ever use it.

[2:39]
actually

drixx [2:39 AM]
it sort of implies that we might want/need to commute at some point

cerberus_v6.66 [2:39 AM]
The scum events sorta reward bussing too much

drixx [2:39 AM]
which then begs the question why?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:39 AM]
Naw

[2:39]
It's just bad man

[2:40]
It's a way to mitigate a lynch on our team

[2:40]
But we probably need to have just lost a member of our team to use it

[2:40]
...

drixx [2:43 AM]
the town reaction to that event would be to lynch a lurker in hopes of hitting town and forcing scum team to commute

[2:43]
then people can try to take actions on suspects and if they fail that's a pseudo-guilty

[2:43]
I can't imagine wanting to trigger that

cerberus_v6.66 [11:00 AM]
Conftown titus is intolerable. Worse than mastin.

[11:00]
You deal with her please.

drixx [11:53 AM]
anything you said since 06:20 your time this morning was lost due to a windows update

cerberus_v6.66 [11:54 AM]
Conftown titus is intolerable. Worse than mastin. You deal with her please.

[11:54]
That's what I said

[11:54]
Have we reached the point of irritation where town us would say fuck opsec, let's just fucking tell everyone everything we know?

[11:55]
Because I really want to.

[11:55]
Don't even care if it would be a bad play as either alignmsnr

[11:56]
The simple fact that she has the audacity to say " I'm conftown, I can stall any way I want" incenses me immensely.

drixx [11:59 AM]
let me catch up and see

[11:59]
I mean ... what we know certainly changes the gamestate, especially if the third party people aren't actually tied to town but can win whichever way they choose.

[12:00]
Which sort of makes sense I guess; the homeworld has wanted the gems back basically forever

cerberus_v6.66 [12:03 PM]
We could have totally taken the reward btw, or made it a three way tie between us, titus, and mastin at least.

[12:03]
So role pm length would have decided who got it.

[12:04]
But why would we expect nobody to read the eve t properly

[12:04]
Silly people thinking it was a public cop effect.

[12:05]
We should keep fighting her I think.

[12:05]
She's so wrong about so many things

[12:05]
It can only help us to disagree with her

[12:06]
The most irritating thing about what we've figured out about the game is the fact that we won't get any credit for it, cause we're scum.

[12:06]
Even though the only thing that informed us about it at all was the fact that we knew yume was steven

[12:07]
But that was something we could easily figure out based on the reasoning I gave yume

[12:08]
Also the idea of twie and dgb having a pt together is painful

[12:08]
The conversations must take so long to resolve

[12:08]
Do we agree that dgb is actually the traitor?

[12:09]
And we basically just had the misfortune of having a traitor too fucking lazy to read the beginning of the game?

[12:09]
So she 1) didn't realize we already crumbed our search for her, and 2) she fucking claimed to a miller who had already claimed?

drixx [1:23 PM]
it seems most likely that she's the traitor but how do we recruit her?

[1:24]
our "Search for Jaspar" event doesn't do it

[1:24]
like there's nothing telling us how we recruit

drixx [1:33 PM]
okay so KTS slot is in the know about the third pary, per Yume

drixx [1:41 PM]
and it seems like Yume has informed Titus to some extent.

cerberus_v6.66 [3:20 PM]
Yeah, so kts is another gem

[3:20]
Well, magna now

[3:20]
Obvious in retrospect

[3:20]
Claimed garnet

[3:21]
Not really a claim anyone would make without knowing stupid town wouldn't cc them

[3:22]
Thus. Must have been in communication with, or actually be, garnet

cerberus_v6.66 [3:28 PM]
Super fucking irritated that our communication channel with dgb is twie

[3:28]
Every time I circle back to it, it makes me more unhappy

[3:31]
So, 7 gems

[3:31]
Bismuth, garnet, amethyst, pearl, steven, lapis, peridot

[3:31]
We killed klingon, who is amethyst

[3:31]
Xk claimed peridot

[3:32]
Yume is Steven

[3:32]
Firebringer is one of bismuth or lapis

[3:32]
Kts is one of the remaining 3

[3:32]
We're missing two gems

[3:33]
Mastin isn't one, Firebringer isn't one, A50 isn't one

[3:33]
Heading home, I'll try to pull the pieces tkgether over this weekend, but I have plans for tonight, am picking up Jeremy and Martine from the airport tomorrow, amd have to get ready to move.

drixx [3:34 PM]
okay

[3:34]
I'll stay active in thread

[3:34]
also; the priority 7 thing ... 7 gems seems like a bit much

cerberus_v6.66 [3:34 PM]
And I have a date tomorrow night.

[3:34]
7 gems makes sense

[3:34]
My thought is only one can join

[3:34]
Of the leftovers

[3:35]
MAYBE 2

drixx [3:35 PM]
as a town-compatible third faction against a 5 person scum team who doesn't have info onw how to recruit their traitor?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:35 PM]
They could also be able to recruit one per night

[3:35]
Or something

[3:35]
Started off as just yume and garnet

[3:35]
So it's not just a steamrolling force

[3:36]
It's something they have to work for

[3:36]
Idk. :/

drixx [3:36 PM]
Well Titus telegraphed that she knows why I suggested it's better to get the flip over with sooner than later, and says she agrees with me

[3:36]
but obviously it's not her choice

cerberus_v6.66 [3:36 PM]
Yeah

[3:36]
We need to figure out who skybird should ally tomorrow

[3:36]
And figure it out SOON

[3:37]
So she can set those alliances up EARLY

[3:37]
Instead of having to scramble

[3:37]
Anyways, thanks for covering

[3:38]
I wasn't working, had some errands to run and then saw I could check out the new version of the magnificent seven for 5 bucks at a theater near my bank

drixx [3:38 PM]
the only trouble I see in our future is how to manipulate things to a win without having suspicion swing back to us

cerberus_v6.66 [3:38 PM]
Dgb is going to be so incredibly bussed by me if twie doesn't show up

[3:38]
Fyi

[3:39]
Idk why thr hell she'd claim the twie alliance

drixx [3:39 PM]
or at the very least making sure that if we ever do flip, our teammates will appear more townie because of it

cerberus_v6.66 [3:39 PM]
When she knows he's scum

drixx [3:39 PM]
she has to be Jaspar

[3:39]
there's no explanation for what she's doing other than trying to get signals to us

cerberus_v6.66 [3:40 PM]
Sure

[3:40]
Fucking lazy

[3:40]
All she had to do was read the wiki on her character

[3:41]
And read up to our first post

[3:41]
And she could have countersignalled easily

[3:41]
Such a fucking mess

drixx [3:43 PM]
should I ask varsoon why we don't have any idea how to recruit our traitor?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:45 PM]
Sure

cerberus_v6.66 [4:05 PM]
Please talk twie through getting dgb

[4:06]
I'm driving, but he's not around enough to not take advantage of talking when he'd sround

drixx [4:15 PM]
yeah I made a post giving him some avenues to pursue

cerberus_v6.66 [4:33 PM]
This is more annoying than anything

[4:33]
Between the delayed flips and not knowing anything about our traitor

[4:33]
Just having to rely on them not being stupid

[4:34]
Which is something dgb has failed spectacularly at.

drixx [4:37 PM]
You want me to go ahead and go through A50's info dump and correct him and tell him why we're sure there's a neutral 3rd party?

[4:37]
I think there's a way to get him to perma townread us in there

cerberus_v6.66 [4:37 PM]
Sure

drixx [4:38 PM]
once he's up to speed, we can privately question whether the Crystal Gems really need any town to survive.

[4:38]
Because Yume's withholding a flip that would presumably confirm both the existence of the faction AND its wincon

[4:38]
and if that wincon is different than what she told us, that would be a huge reason why she would want to do that

cerberus_v6.66 [4:39 PM]
Mhm

drixx [5:24 PM]
dammit

[5:24]
the forum didn't show me your post and I posted something different

[5:24]
made a follow up post

[5:24]
in this case I think it helps tho

[5:25]
like ... in what universe do you and I directly contradict each other in consecutive posts if we're scum?

cerberus_v6.66 [5:25 PM]
We didn't contradict each other?

[5:26]
I clarified things for titus regarding what she should be expecting from Farside's uber vote power

[5:26]
That's all I said

[5:26]
I didn't express a stance.

[5:27]
Oh

[5:27]
The allying thing

cerberus_v6.66 [5:48 PM]
How is titus possibly blind enough that she doesn't resize that a claimed multivoting ability would LYNCH her, not be a vig, and thus her bp wouldn't be useful against it?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:52 PM]
Are we scumreading farside or not, lol?

[6:52]
Likex when the vig was just a vig thst ended the day, and NOT a multivoting thing, it was an omg this can't be scum sort of role

[6:53]
Once it became a multivoting thing, the role related reasons to townread her went away

[6:53]
Now we just have her play.

drixx [7:13 PM]
Varsoon says that he can't say anything about our traitor joining us. He said that nothing was left out of the info we've been given.

[7:13]
That implies the traitor has to do something to join us

[7:13]
which implies DGB is probably it

----- October 2nd -----
drixx [12:50 PM]
hai

cerberus_v6.66 [4:07 PM]
Yo!

[4:07]
Sup?

drixx [4:25 PM]
hey

[4:25]
I hate that this channel doesn't beep

cerberus_v6.66 [4:28 PM]
There's really no reason for that.

[4:28]
Pretty weird

drixx [6:16 PM]
So what do we want to accomplish? The game thread is stagnant right now.

[6:17]
I feel like we should be pushing low content people; however, that means pushing half of our team if we're going to be evenhanded about it.

cerberus_v6.66 [6:18 PM]
I think we warn them

[6:18]
Use waiting for beach results and the stuff in thread currently to buy them some time

[6:18]
Tell them in 35-48h we're going to be pushing people hard

[6:18]
And to have said enough in the time between the warning and then that our focus should be elsewhere

cerberus_v6.66 [6:37 PM]
Thoughts?

drixx [7:22 PM]
I freaking hate that this doesn't beep

[7:23]
every time you say a word on the other slack it makes a noise

[7:23]
I think that makes sense yes

cerberus_v6.66 [7:26 PM]
Alright

[7:26]
Oh date cancelled bte

[7:26]
But I'm echausted.

drixx [8:09 PM]
awe

[8:09]
Grapes is probably in the gems faction.

[8:09]
also... get sleep if you're exhausted

cerberus_v6.66 [8:14 PM]
Yeah, I will. Not sure I understand why you think grapes is a gem

[8:14]
It's totally possible of course

[8:14]
Just don't recall seeing any evidence

----- October 4th -----
drixx [9:34 AM]
hi

cerberus_v6.66 [9:34 AM]
We're about to be fucked by mod error and varsoon isn't around

[9:34]
Fhi

[9:34]
*fyi*

[9:34]
Catch up

[9:36]
We need yume/mastin to confirm with Varsoon what the result of yume voting for mastin would have been.

[9:37]
That's about all we can d

[9:37]
*do*

drixx [9:58 AM]
should have told you I was working on a post

[9:58]
but it actually works well

cerberus_v6.66 [9:58 AM]
K

[9:59]
Just wanted to get that confirmation in here asap

drixx [9:59 AM]
to the game it looks like we're both working on figuring it out and arriving at slightly different places

cerberus_v6.66 [9:59 AM]
Because my plan worked perfectlu

[9:59]
There should be no missing vote

[9:59]
Either varsoon screwed up or the expectations are wrong

drixx [9:59 AM]
yeah pretty sure Varsoon made an error; only thing that makes sense.

[9:59]
well ... Titus could have made a bad assumption

cerberus_v6.66 [10:00 AM]
The trouble is defending against that in the time before he clears things up

[10:00]
That tells stuff by itself

[10:00]
So I restricted myself to just asking for clarity

[10:00]
And correcting one obvious wrong assumption.

[10:04]
You...outed yume.

[10:04]
O.o

drixx [10:05 AM]
Titus outed Yume

cerberus_v6.66 [10:05 AM]
Well

[10:05]
It was reasonable ror people o miss it

[10:05]
:/

[10:06]
Granted, you doing that probably makes us look tosn

[10:06]
But I wanted to reserve it for post kc flip

[10:06]
Which would hopefully show us something to give us cause to suspect the gems

drixx [10:06 AM]
#7159, Titus says "We take out Yume. Yume is Steven. Pretty Obvious."

cerberus_v6.66 [10:06 AM]
And thus let us out everything

[10:06]
Oh

[10:06]
Missed it!

[10:06]
Nice

drixx [10:10 AM]
Yume just flavor claimed in the thread

[10:14]
Can we remote detonate?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:15 AM]
If we want to ensure we can't get the cluster off.

[10:19]
My goal was to use it surprise extra death to enable skybirds pearl gote

[10:20]
Letting us go from a day or two before lylo into a win.

drixx [10:20 AM]
It's a mistake to assume Varsoon will let us use remote detonate to just outright win

[10:20]
yes he wants to punish flavor claiming but I don't think to THAT extent

[10:21]
he has ALWAYS turned off auto-win conditions when appropriate

[10:21]
torpedoing Steven for flavor claiming will scare the shit out of everyone and stop any further claims ever

cerberus_v6.66 [10:21 AM]
That's easily resolved

[10:22]
And there's nothing noting things turn off in lylo

[10:22]
Thr only limitation is thst pearl and skybird can't be the only votes on a lynch

drixx [10:25 AM]
She only gets that when all the gems are dead

[10:25]
Detonating Yume has only upside

[10:25]
it breaks a bunch of town communication lanes

[10:25]
it reinforces flavor claiming as bad

[10:25]
it will shake up the gamestate

[10:26]
and it should show the Crystal Gems wincon

[10:26]
like ... win win win

[10:26]
all I need is your consent to submit the quote for instant killification

cerberus_v6.66 [10:27 AM]
Of course

[10:27]
And we've identified almost every gem.

[10:29]
The downside is if steven is BP.

drixx [10:29 AM]
remote detonation doesn't get affected by BP I don't believe. Read the event.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:30 AM]
It says it can be stopped for other reasons than them fake claiming

[10:30]
Which means protection stops ot.

drixx [10:32 AM]
well we're passively blocking Yume

[10:33]
so any protection originating from her should not exist

cerberus_v6.66 [10:33 AM]
Umm

[10:33]
You're making dumb assumptions

[10:33]
We don't stop a passive protection

[10:33]
We prevent triggered abilities.

[10:35]
I think it's best not used as a knee jerk

[10:35]
And there's no reason to not wait for varsoon to show up

[10:35]
Because she wuldnt die till then anyways.

drixx [10:36 AM]
If anybody should be allowed to flavor claim I suppose it's Steven

[10:37]
but umm... I don't buy that this game's version of Steven is permanently BP and also BGs

[10:37]
I think it likely Yume's protection is something someone else is providing, which would make it unlikely to be in effect during the day?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:38 AM]
Umm

[10:38]
That's also a silly assumption.

[10:38]
I'd be more inclined to believe it's a passive benefit of an alliance

[10:39]
Oh

drixx [10:39 AM]
Yume has claimed in multiple places to be able to bodyguard

[10:39]
permanently BP also?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:39 AM]
And guess what? Yume is allied with Titus

[10:39]
Who claimed to have SCs effect

[10:39]
Though she explicitly only claimed to make herself bp

drixx [10:39 AM]
SC's effect was told to his allies

cerberus_v6.66 [10:39 AM]
So that would be protection we can expect her to have.

drixx [10:39 AM]
we got told nothing about anything when we allied Titus

cerberus_v6.66 [10:39 AM]
Thst is true

[10:39]
Mm

[10:39]
Valid point.

drixx [10:40 AM]
also; is that protection in the day or just the night?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:40 AM]
It didn't say

[10:40]
Which means it's always

drixx [10:40 AM]
like ... what's the point of remote detonation if half the game can't be killed?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:40 AM]
Well, when stress is high it all works.

[10:41]
And when stress us medium we have a strongman

[10:41]
*is*

[10:41]
And we only know of two town bpz

[10:42]
With an unexplained kill failure on N1 on grapes

drixx [10:43 AM]
was that a failure or was it a redirect of some kind?

[10:43]
Grapes made a comment yesterday that made me think he was a gem

[10:44]
I'm looking through his ISO and trying to remember why I thought that. I know I said it to you, but I didn't put the reasoning in my notes because I was feeling fucking awful.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:45 AM]
Yeah we don't know.

[10:49]
Ugh

[10:50]
Dgb caught not being am ascetic

drixx [10:52 AM]
Yeah I saw

[10:52]
I've been working the "Hrm... Farside looks REALLY bad right now" angle as much as I dare.

drixx [12:59 PM]
we have a thread lock

cerberus_v6.66 [1:00 PM]
Mhm. Varsoon is figuring some stuff out

cerberus_v6.66 [1:12 PM]
He said ...if players want to ignore the early posts where he said don't fake claim...and they do

[1:12]
Fuck em

[1:12]
They can lose in lylo

drixx [1:14 PM]
?

cerberus_v6.66 [1:19 PM]
So yes we can remote detonate in lylo

[1:19]
But skybird ms double vote won't work

[1:19]
But her pearl will

drixx [1:31 PM]
Someone who claimed to vote for Mastin has to have been lying. Varsoon says the points are correct and even went so far as to say special event formed alliances would be scored like alliances, so therefore Yume voting for Mastin should have been 2 points, etc... etc..

[1:32]
obviously we can't say that, which means we get to lose our strongman or be out of the game ourselves

cerberus_v6.66 [2:54 PM]
So it's been resolved

[2:54]
Why are we allying with Titus and shiro again?

[2:54]
Because its what we'd do?

[2:54]
We trust shiro enough to infodump what we'd infodump to conftown?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:04 PM]
Oh, Yume claimed permanent bp.

[3:04]
...

drixx [5:43 PM]
we're doing it because it's what town us would do

[5:43]
at least, that's why I responded to Titus the way I did

[5:43]
the cool thing is I screwed up the random thing by choosing A50 so you can override me if yo ulike

cerberus_v6.66 [6:37 PM]
Well I mean the problem is that town us wouldn't infodump to shiro

[6:37]
I don't think.

[6:38]
Town us would want a gem as part of our alliance

[6:38]
To maximize the number of connections we have.

drixx [6:42 PM]
Town us would also want to firm up working together with Titus

cerberus_v6.66 [6:42 PM]
I'm not sure what we have to say to her though

drixx [6:56 PM]
Well we should have LOTS to say by the end of the day

cerberus_v6.66 [6:56 PM]
Lol

drixx [6:57 PM]
like I'm going to talk to her about how she lectured me about town leading and I tried to just gently point out she might be mistaken about Farside but the way she responded made me afraid that if farside flipped scum she would come after me. (A gambit designed to make her re-assess her town leadership role and at the same time realize she bit my head off over nothing)

[6:57]
the third party faction will almost certainly be outed

cerberus_v6.66 [6:57 PM]
Well, it's already been outed

drixx [6:58 PM]
if not we can talk about the resurrection of KC and the implications of one side having the ability to do that repeatedly (Firebringer, then KC)

[6:58]
not really

[6:58]
not fully

cerberus_v6.66 [6:58 PM]
She said that she's also aware if a large pro town 3p faction

[6:58]
I also think they intend to resurrect KC.

drixx [6:58 PM]
oh I suppose Yume probably DID let her in on it

[6:58]
that's perfect

cerberus_v6.66 [6:58 PM]
Because of, well

[6:59]
The fact that maatin claimed responsibility for thr kill

[6:59]
Even though it's obviously different verbiage from the bubbling

[6:59]
Means they intend for kc to return.

[6:59]
Mmm

[6:59]
Shit

drixx [6:59 PM]
we can demonstrate our finale power and do our setup spec speciality and convince her that scum must also possess some similar ability

cerberus_v6.66 [6:59 PM]
We might need to kill yume

[7:00]
Because...the resurrection might be recharged on finales

[7:00]
I didn't even think of that

[7:00]
I don't even know how we'd do that

[7:00]
I asked varsoon

[7:00]
And he told me that events have different priorities

[7:00]
So it depends on the exact way a bp is phrased

drixx [7:00 PM]
most protective powers and abilities work at night

[7:00]
and that could just be a thing she's saying

cerberus_v6.66 [7:00 PM]
And the exact way the event is phrased

drixx [7:01 PM]
like what you just said is scary as fuck, but makes sense

[7:01]
Remote detonate might be the thing to try

cerberus_v6.66 [7:02 PM]
I really don't wanna kill yume.

[7:02]
She's hard townread us and skybird

[7:03]
*townreading*

[7:03]
If the kill prevents the resurrection of kc from going off and forces two town flips right now though

[7:03]
Stress goes to +3

drixx [7:05 PM]
which puts a strongman in play

[7:05]
we can wipe the board nearly clean in a couple devastating moves

cerberus_v6.66 [7:05 PM]
No

[7:05]
At -2 strongman comes into play.

[7:05]
It helps us when we're losing

drixx [7:05 PM]
for some reason I thought it was +2 ... -2 makes sense

cerberus_v6.66 [7:05 PM]
Now when we're winning

[7:06]
It would turn on firebringer gun gifting

drixx [7:06 PM]
+3 isn't significant in any meaningful way except that it's close to a mechanical break point in th egame

[7:06]
if the game ever gets to +4, then it's a mechanics game from that point onward

cerberus_v6.66 [7:06 PM]
And A50s enhanced priority thing

[7:06]
+3 is importanr. ;p

drixx [7:06 PM]
put someone to the normal lynch threshhold. IF they don't die, they're town.

[7:06]
it's a clear break in favor of town

cerberus_v6.66 [7:07 PM]
Because we know abilities certain abilities work

[7:07]
That wouldn't otherwise work

drixx [7:08 PM]
so if it worked and Yume and KC immediately flipped and added stress, a night kill would put stress to +4 for the finale

cerberus_v6.66 [7:08 PM]
You misread the stress things

drixx [7:08 PM]
at +4, all town take an extra vote to lynch?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:09 PM]
Not town

[7:09]
Everyone

[7:09]
At -4, town is easier to lynch

drixx [7:10 PM]
I think we kind of WANT to turn on Firebringer's gun right now

[7:10]
Farside is saying she can't be lynched

[7:10]
if he can suddenly throw a gun to Titus; where do you think it's gonna be aimed?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:11 PM]
Well

[7:11]
The problem is the conversation they're having

[7:11]
Is...lynch shadow

[7:11]
If farside can't be lynched

[7:11]
And shoot farside

[7:11]
So...

[7:11]
We need shadow to fucking play mafia

[7:11]
I don't know what they're doing

[7:12]
They eaod they'd be around after the weekend

drixx [7:12 PM]
Yeah ...

cerberus_v6.66 [7:12 PM]
And they're still doing nothing while the game keeps assuming they're scum

drixx [7:12 PM]
I don't get it; the opportunity to play scum comes around way less often

[7:12]
why not sieze it and have as much fun with it as possible?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:12 PM]
His entrance was fine

[7:12]
Made up for foxbird inactivity

[7:12]
But now he's also disappeared

drixx [7:14 PM]
yeah and Skybird is afraid to go to the thread when the shift onto her was super transient

cerberus_v6.66 [7:15 PM]
Mym

----- October 5th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [10:27 AM]
May have done a dumb thing..

[10:27]
Expressed our doubts about the gems honesty in the main thread.

[10:27]
Hasn't gone badly, just...ya know, might have wanted to frame it better.

cerberus_v6.66 [1:43 PM]
Well, at least we've basically done thr same thing we wanted the flip to do

[1:43]
Nobody has any reason to trust the gems

[1:43]
They are officially unmasoned.

[1:43]
Do we out who they all are now though?

drixx [1:45 PM]
not yet

[1:45]
if they flip with the win con yume claimed, then it will be reasonable that we outed that they MIGHT not have our best interests in their win con

[1:46]
Yume withholding the flip could reasonably cause us to be paranoid

[1:46]
I don't think we would throw them to the wolves without being sure

cerberus_v6.66 [1:51 PM]
Yume said their win con won't flip when they do

[1:51]
Which is what she says she was hiding

drixx [2:01 PM]
that seems shady

[2:02]
so basically our entire initial speculation was spot on

[2:02]
and you just did exactly what town!us would do in the situation

[2:02]
no actual town player is going to want to lynch us but if stress goes too high we could get FB gun vigged

cerberus_v6.66 [2:22 PM]
Yeah

[2:22]
Also, I feel like shit

[2:22]
For attacking jer

[2:23]
She was a lot more relaxed about it than I expected, but I still feel bad

[2:23]
I don't think I'd feel as bad if I were town

cerberus_v6.66 [2:31 PM]
So, I guess the question is

[2:31]
After hearing that

drixx [2:31 PM]
sorry; my dad called

[2:31]
for PC tech support

cerberus_v6.66 [2:31 PM]
Would we say fuck the gems

drixx [2:31 PM]
*sigh*

cerberus_v6.66 [2:32 PM]
And just expose all of them

[2:32]
EXCEPT xkfyu

[2:32]
Who we know is trying to infiltrate scum?

drixx [2:32 PM]
Yume saying that a gem flip won't show their wincon and that being the case are two different things

[2:32]
we would wait to see for sure that the wincon is obscured

[2:32]
if it is, then it logically follows that they win without town

[2:33]
at which point we would infodump and out them

[2:33]
the problem that might intervene is if we believe the gems can kill AND would now consider us a threat

cerberus_v6.66 [2:33 PM]
Yeah

[2:34]
She confirmed the resurrection was only on lynches too

drixx [2:34 PM]
I think our town play would be to hedge

cerberus_v6.66 [2:34 PM]
So good to know I was right again

[2:34]

[2:34]
But that makes me think she might be able to obscure portions of flips

[2:35]
Like D&D could in Bloodborne

[2:35]
So it might not be legitimately hidden normally

[2:35]
But she'll make it hidden

[2:35]
Hedge how?

[2:35]
Tell A50 everything

[2:35]
And what to do in the event of our death?

[2:35]
Express fears etc

[2:35]
And lay out the plan?

drixx [2:37 PM]
I think we tell A50 everything and ask him to make sure town doesn't screw the pooch if the Gems bubble or kill us

cerberus_v6.66 [2:37 PM]
Ya

cerberus_v6.66 [3:58 PM]
Titus thinks we can hammer today to make sure farside gets lynched

drixx [4:00 PM]
yeah ummm... no

cerberus_v6.66 [4:00 PM]
Yeah

[4:01]
I uh aid she's missing a critical component of our claim.

drixx [4:01 PM]
btw ... town!us would be very suspicious of the gems given our power

[4:01]
my friend Dusty will be here pretty soon

cerberus_v6.66 [4:01 PM]
I wish fucking dgb and skybird and shadow weren't lynches 2-4 after farside

[4:02]
Or I'd suggest that se lynch farside tomorrow if Titus wants *that* to happen

[4:02]
Also, with our knowledge of the gems shadiness

[4:02]
We should be suspicious of skybird

[4:02]
And mastin too

----- October 6th -----
drixx [5:06 PM]
this has been a bizarre scum game

[5:06]
like ... apart from the first few hours of day 2, we've basically just played as if we were town and we were working with the "conftowns" to help, but really we're just watching them implode over and over

cerberus_v6.66 [5:08 PM]
Lol

[5:09]
Except the PoE has basically condemned our entire team and our traitoe

[5:10]
Combined with their lack of actual presence in the thread

[5:11]
Like, right now I'm looking at a us+skybird end game

[5:13]
Which would be all gems dead, we win when there are 4 town left alive if we use remote detonation, IF it doesn't push stress up to 4.

[5:13]
Oh wait

[5:13]
Turned off in lylo

[5:13]
Yeah

[5:14]
So at 5 town left alive, we shoot someone in the night, then remote detonate someone else, turn on skybirds pearl and control half the votes

[5:15]
Town no longer able to lynch us.

drixx [5:32 PM]
hoping we can get into a better spot but yeah ... the very fact that a viable endgame scenario can be outlined ....

cerberus_v6.66 [5:44 PM]
True

[5:44]
Sorry, was chatting with jeremy

[5:44]
Said end game scenario requires so many deaths thoufh

[5:45]
That we can't leave titus/mastin alive. :/

drixx [6:04 PM]
we can't leave them alive forever either way

[6:04]
like ... it would eventually occur to them that they were being left alive for a reason

cerberus_v6.66 [6:05 PM]
reason being it would make us really happy to let them live all game long and beat them?

[6:06]
I almost told mastin

[6:06]
Back when she was calling us scum and predicting her early death

[6:06]
That if I were scum I would NEVER shoot her because a victory where you kill all the good players and beat the bad ones isn't a victory worth attaining.

[6:11]
Dude

[6:11]
Read mastins latest post

[6:11]
We fucking flipped her

[6:12]
We're one of the cool kids now yo

drixx [6:22 PM]
that changes things

cerberus_v6.66 [6:22 PM]
I mean we're still in the PoE

drixx [6:22 PM]
it may be possible to be alive and win with the best opponents still on the board

[6:22]
all we have to do is be the least likely to be scum and town runs out of mislynches

cerberus_v6.66 [6:23 PM]
But from her perspective, kraska is the most likely scum in that sizable pool

drixx [6:23 PM]
we have to keep playing like our town selves

[6:23]
which is a lot of work

cerberus_v6.66 [6:23 PM]

drixx [6:23 PM]
because let's face it; barring any small details we might be a little off on ... we basically know the setup, who is human, who is crystal, who is homeworld, and who the traitors are

[6:23]
like ... it's real EFFORT to fake the effort

[6:24]
running gambits on people who are super perceptive makes me get really anxious

cerberus_v6.66 [6:24 PM]
HH

[6:24]
*hah*

drixx [6:24 PM]
There's different types of perceptive

[6:25]
You and I would never even NOTICE the things that Molly wins games by noticing, for example

[6:25]
but she would never have noticed what you did nor done the looking I did to realize there was a whole 3rd faction in the game

[6:25]
which ... man

[6:26]
every time I see another piece of evidence that's something I read early on I am like "how the frick didn't I see that straigthaway?"

[6:26]
Soooooo much of Varsoon's phrasing of things now seems like blinking neon signs

cerberus_v6.66 [6:29 PM]
mastin gave us an opportunity

[6:29]
yeah

[6:30]
mainly the usage of the term "non-scum"

[6:30]

[6:30]
So unless you think either (1) the traitor's been recruited, (2) the scum coordinated with the traitor, (3) there is no traitor and they just have five groupscum, or (4) there is a traitor and six total scum (five group, plus traitor), then, yeah.
Not Chara is town.

[6:30]
she said this

[6:30]
when dealing with the possibility of 2

[6:30]
I can ABSOLUTELY drop a hint to DGB

[6:30]
if we're sure she's the traitor

[6:30]
to get her to fucking talk to TWIE and work with us

[6:31]
my curretn response

[6:31]
without any sort of hint dropped in

[6:31]
1 can't be assumed to be untrue, 2 seems basically impossible without 1 happening, the traitor and a member of the scum team would have needed to luck into allying one another AND been confident enough that they were both scum to claim and plot during the freeze, 3 seems improbable, the jaspar check doesn't make much sense if she isn't a traitor(barring some special bonus for removing her/having her still alive in the game, but she doesn't make sense as town in any way), and 4 isn't unreasonable. I mean, it's a 25 player game. Why would 5.5 scum not work in single ball?

drixx [6:38 PM]
I don't think today's the day to drop hints

[6:39]
and at this point I'm not sure what value there would be in recruiting DGB

cerberus_v6.66 [6:44 PM]
I guess

[6:44]
:-/

[6:44]
alright

[6:44]
I'll just answer without an hints

[6:44]
^^

[6:46]
our teams lack of presence on the wagons is also really helping us out

[6:47]
only us on the SC wagon

[6:47]
and none of us on the math wagon

[6:47]
absolutely RUINED mastins analysis

drixx [6:48 PM]
at best she gets one of us out of that whole two lists of scum

[6:48]
can she please take over the town now?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:03 PM]
well

[7:03]
no

[7:03]
she has twie in there

[7:03]
and shadow

[7:03]
like, it's not terrible

[7:04]
but the only member of our team who she has in her outright list of scum

[7:04]
is shadowstep

[7:04]
and dgb I guess

[7:04]
but she doesn't count

drixx [7:20 PM]
yeah

[7:20]
like .. even in the list where we are, she thinks there's only one scum

[7:20]
so we can always scum ourselves up if Skybird re-engages and can carry the game

[7:20]
Skybird has the late game good abilities, imo

[7:21]
we're NEVER going to be able to use our finale power on a gem, sadly

[7:21]
and from what they revealed, it looks like the gem group is only going to consider using their ressurrect on one of their own

cerberus_v6.66 [7:23 PM]
Yeah

[7:23]
Actually magna could end up lynched tomorrow

[7:23]
Not impossible

[7:23]
Depends on the kc flip

[7:24]
And yeah, Skybird really needs to be there in the late gams

[7:24]
*game*

drixx [7:28 PM]
we can't do much to help her

[7:28]
she gets overwhelmed in games when the post count gets too high I think

cerberus_v6.66 [7:28 PM]
*nods*

[7:29]
I think she just has limited time in her life

drixx [7:29 PM]
I mean we're pushing into the 8k+ territory and we've seen exactly two flips

[7:29]
don't we all?

[7:29]
other chan.

cerberus_v6.66 [7:29 PM]
Well yes, but some have lives that give them a bit more time to mix mafia with other stuff

cerberus_v6.66 [7:44 PM]
Lol, I had already answered something you quoted and said you'd let me answer.

drixx [11:09 PM]
yeah the preview thing doesn't show posts from the same account

[11:09]
so I didn't see that until after my post was already done

----- October 7th -----
drixx [1:58 PM]
We got the flip and the gems are officially a self-aligned 3rd party who investigate as "Enemy of Earth"

[1:58]
some abilities redacted

[1:59]
and gem flips don't affect stress

cerberus_v6.66 [2:29 PM]
Well, AMETHYST investigates as enemies of earth.

[2:29]
The gems might not

[2:30]
So, the question is...what do we out at this point?

[2:30]
Flip received

[2:30]
Shadiness of gems confirmed

drixx [2:31 PM]
So much redaction there

[2:31]
I really don't know the best play here

cerberus_v6.66 [2:31 PM]
Got yume to make a claim regarding why it was redacted at least

drixx [2:33 PM]
I think town us expresses concern at that and says something like "Going to think before jumping to conlusions" or something like that

[2:33]
we're set to ally with Titus

[2:33]
she is probably more informed

[2:33]
what we really need to know is whether the gems are something we need to bother with or not

cerberus_v6.66 [2:33 PM]
Well

[2:33]
That's something we can't know

[2:34]
We could ask yume what their exact win con is, as well as she can paraphrase it.

drixx [2:34 PM]
She already told us that

[2:34]
why would she change her answer?

[2:35]
Shiro + Titus is actually a good alliance to be in for finale

[2:35]
Shiro can be interrogated about whether it's setup spec that caused the "Anyone going after the gems will be killed" statement

[2:35]
and we can compare what Yume told us to what Titus has been told, looking for discrepencies

[2:36]
if we could get lynches on gems, that would be amazing

cerberus_v6.66 [2:39 PM]
We can get a lynch on MoI pretty easily imo

[2:39]
Best done tomorrow.

[2:39]
We'd need to detonate yume before any lynches though.

[2:39]
Otherwise they'll just be resurrected

drixx [2:40 PM]
if we're going to detonate yume, she either has some kind of protection during the day or she doesn't

[2:40]
we can't know

[2:40]
not with any degree of acceptable certainty anyway

cerberus_v6.66 [2:41 PM]
Yeah

drixx [2:41 PM]
I would argue to do it today

[2:41]
during the finale she might have more protection

cerberus_v6.66 [2:41 PM]
If we're going to do it at any point that isn't going to directly result in us winning the game

[2:42]
We should do it now, yes

[2:42]
Really hate using an extra kill at such an early point.

drixx [2:43 PM]
I don't know if we can make it to a position where having saved it yeilds us an automatic win given how much heat is on so much of our team

[2:43]
basically everyone but us is being pushed to one extent or another

[2:43]
and ... people might assume Farside did it ... ;p

cerberus_v6.66 [2:43 PM]
I knew someone would scum read me for pushing yume for more details btw.

[2:44]
And ya know, magna did

[2:44]
Least credible slot to make such an accusarion

[2:44]
Given that he shares her win con

[2:44]
We need to find out exactly what the thread is told when we use remote detonation

[2:44]
Does someone just die

[2:44]
Or are they told an event was used

[2:44]
Or are they told a SCUM event was used

[2:44]
Or what

drixx [2:50 PM]
It will just say an event and Increases Stress by 1 towards Tragic Destiny

[2:51]
if it by some chance did say scum event ... that wouldn't really clear Farside by any means

cerberus_v6.66 [2:51 PM]
How do you know this?

[2:51]
Okay, you don't

drixx [2:51 PM]
I read the event

cerberus_v6.66 [2:51 PM]
Our other event said scum event

drixx [2:51 PM]
The following information will be publicly posted in the game thread at the end of the Climax Phase:

[2:51]
Increases Stress by 1 towards Tragic Destiny.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:51 PM]
I don't think that's mentioned in the description

drixx [2:51 PM]
compared to message received:

[2:51]
The following information will be publicly posted in the game thread at the end of the Climax Phase:

[2:51]
It becomes public knowledge that The Cluster may awaken and destroy Earth.

[2:51]
From this point onward, players may forego taking Climax actions to add a point to a cumulative, hidden score.

[2:51]
If both Players in an Alliance forego their Climax actions, they add 3 points to this score.

[2:51]
Players are told that if the score does not reach a high enough point by the upcoming Season Finale, there will be several deaths.

[2:51]
Adds +4 Stress, towards Tragic Destiny.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:52 PM]
Yeah that doesn't day the scum event thing

[2:52]
So it's equally likely to say scum event

drixx [2:52 PM]
it was obviously a scum event though

[2:52]
whereas the remote detonation won't be

cerberus_v6.66 [2:52 PM]
Which is why we need to ask.

drixx [2:52 PM]
BUT ... we can get Varsoon to say whether it will be outed

[2:52]
but I don't think it matters

[2:52]
scum obviously want to kill Yume

cerberus_v6.66 [2:53 PM]
Already got a question to him pending on skype

drixx [2:53 PM]
Farside has already claimed the ability to kill

cerberus_v6.66 [2:53 PM]
And sure

[2:53]
But no

[2:53]
Shh e claimed multivoting

[2:53]
Not a vig

drixx [2:53 PM]
she's claimed all sorts of things

[2:54]
points that empower different abilities

[2:54]
enough points and she just gets a solo win

[2:54]
which Mastin has to be suspicious of

[2:54]
it's basically an exact copy of the fake claim I used in SMITE

cerberus_v6.66 [2:54 PM]
Mastin isn't suspicious of it

drixx [2:54 PM]
if I get enough points I just peace out and win apart from everyone else OR I have this ability to hammer someone and nothing can stop their lynch and if it's scum, I win

cerberus_v6.66 [2:54 PM]
She doesn't care

drixx [2:54 PM]
she hasn't said she cares in the thread

[2:55]
there's no fucking way that FArside claims almost precisely what I did in SMITE and Mastin isn't suspicious

cerberus_v6.66 [2:55 PM]
She doesn't. Guarantee. I feel pretty good at reading her tonally, and the post about wanting to work with 3p etc?

[2:55]
It's genuine

drixx [2:55 PM]
Mastin is one of the people on site who use previous games to decide about current games

[2:55]
Sure; she wanted to work with me in SMITE

cerberus_v6.66 [2:55 PM]
I mean

drixx [2:56 PM]
and I killed her before she could catch me out

[2:56]
lol

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
In that post she REFERENCES smite

drixx [2:56 PM]
yep

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
So, obviously she thought about it

drixx [2:56 PM]
and Farside has claimed almost exactly the same claim I used

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
But the part about being eill in to just accept a loss in thst case

drixx [2:56 PM]
so for Mastin, does she believe Varsoon read that game and used my fake claim to make a role?

[2:56]
or does she think it's more likely a fake claim?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
And chastise varsoon for not learning his lesson?

[2:56]
That's honest

[2:57]
She is 100% okay with leaving farside alone and letting her win the game if she's anti-town 3p with a win con that ignores the player count

[2:57]
And just blaming varsoon for bad design.

drixx [2:58 PM]
so long as she believes Farside is 3p

[2:58]
what happens when a random thing kills Steven?

[2:58]
and there's someone there claiming points empower different abilities?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:00 PM]
I don't think she would assume it wS farside

[3:00]
Because th e re is no reason to assume that

[3:01]
There are like 20 other slots thar could have killed her

drixx [3:06 PM]
Well it's not like framing Farside is the primary objective

[3:06]
it's a possible fringe benefit

cerberus_v6.66 [3:08 PM]
True

[3:08]
Ask the team

[3:08]
In the least forceful way, I don't want them to just sheep our idea

[3:08]
I wanna hear their thoughts

[3:09]
Twie is 19 hours from his third prod

drixx [3:11 PM]
we should talk to A50 now that this has been revealed

cerberus_v6.66 [3:12 PM]
Do it!

[3:12]
I'm working, can't make meaningful posts. ^^

cerberus_v6.66 [3:21 PM]
Lol, that was not exactly the most unbiased suggestion.

[3:21]
"Should we do this? Heres a reason why we shouldn't be worried about one concern, and here's a reason to do it now!"

[3:21]
<3

cerberus_v6.66 [3:29 PM]
Titus thinks we're doing nothing to box scum in and we're interested in control?

[3:29]
Wtf?

[3:29]
All we wanted all day long was to see KCS flip to know if we could ignore all the gems in our PoE or not.

drixx [3:53 PM]
lol sorry

[3:53]
I didn't mean for my bias to want to trigger it to be there

[3:54]
Also yeah Titus is confused because of how we have had our votes out as a team ... the normal mechancial things she does aren't giving her answers.

[3:54]
I'm trying to gambit Mastin a bit right now btw

cerberus_v6.66 [3:54 PM]
Okies

[3:56]
I meam to look over kraskaesque tonight

[3:57]
Didn't expect mastin to drop it so fast

[3:57]
.eamt to look over both of them, actually

cerberus_v6.66 [4:50 PM]
*claps at mastins VCA*

[4:50]
She is exactly right

[4:50]
Zero scum on that mathblade wagon

[4:51]
Her misanalysis of the SC wagon though, is pointing her at the wrong chunk of people who weren't voting for mathblade.

drixx [4:56 PM]
yeah that's some impressive output from a process I view as fundamentally flawed

cerberus_v6.66 [7:46 PM]
Silly Titus

[7:46]
scumreading us for fundamentally misinterpreting what we're doing

[7:46]
if I were less busy this weekend, I would go talk to her, but fuck it

drixx [8:19 PM]
Did varsoon ever answer you on skype?

cerberus_v6.66 [8:26 PM]
oh

[8:26]
yes

[8:26]
event will be marked as a scum event

[8:26]
also, I'm about ot head out

[8:27]
so you can deal with the vca stuff if you want

[8:27]
or not

[8:27]

drixx [8:52 PM]
VCA is not a strong point of mine

[8:52]
I reject its validity outright

cerberus_v6.66 [9:05 PM]
Lol

[9:05]
Ah well

[9:06]
How about you just deal with the conclusions?

[9:08]
I'm not forgetting my earlier position?

[9:08]
I fucking referenced it in that post

[9:08]
...

[9:10]
Like, I specifically made that earlier post about knee-jerk lynching late NU claimed s being bad at this point given the sheer number of them as a counter to my previous kill all NU stance AND because I wanted to be able to not autolynch skybird by setting that point up far in advance AND because town!me would NEVER expect more than one scum ascetic, so in a pool of like 4 ascetic claimers I expect us to hit town 75% of the time.

[9:11]
You better read this titus.

[9:11]
Omg

[9:12]
Why the fuck would farside blow up the NC alliance WHEN SHE'S ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK TO BE LYNCH ED AND THE MAIN PROPONENT IS FUCKING CONFTOWN.

[9:12]
Wtf.

[9:13]
Also...farside didn't claim fucking roleblocker?

[9:13]
Like wtf

[9:13]
How many things can titus get wrong in one post.

drixx [9:13 PM]
I'm drafting a post atm

cerberus_v6.66 [9:16 PM]
Also, part of why I don't want to lynch her today

[9:16]
Is because if she's not lyint, it won't kill hed

[9:16]
And brings her closer to her win con

[9:16]
So we're closer to givong scum a free kill

[9:16]
So I'd rather lynch her TOMORROW

[9:16]
When we can make sure she actually dies

[9:17]
That's like 90% of the reason behind my undeclared stance

[9:17]
Because it requires revealing part of our role we can't reveal

drixx [9:19 PM]
I get that but if you haven't noticed, we're floating back up the list of potential lynch targets

cerberus_v6.66 [9:20 PM]
Meh

[9:20]
Titus can't win vs us.

[9:20]
I feel much safer now versus her with mastin suppprt, than I did versus mastin with her support

[9:20]
Because there are 3 scumreads on us total

[9:21]
Mcmenno, titus, and umm

[9:21]
There was one other

[9:21]
Oh MoI

drixx [9:21 PM]
Go forth and have fun man

[9:21]
I got this till I go to bed

cerberus_v6.66 [9:22 PM]
Thanks man, much love. ;(

[9:22]

[9:22]
Wrong smiley ^^

cerberus_v6.66 [9:32 PM]
Okah, haven't left yet

[9:32]
The dissolved alliance point is BS

[9:33]
People couldn't start withholding actions until N2

[9:33]
And the alliance was on D1

[9:34]
Blargh

[9:34]
I'm leaving now.

----- October 8th -----
drixx [10:42 AM]
hi

cerberus_v6.66 [10:45 AM]
Hi!

[10:46]
We need to correct A50 about our flavor

[10:46]
Since he thinks we're ronaldo

[10:46]
And I'm pretty sure that's actually shiro

[10:46]
Also

[10:46]
If Yume is truly the cause of the delay, I had a thought

drixx [10:47 AM]
okay?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:47 AM]
We're at +1 now. We shoot her with detonate go up to+3

[10:47]
A lynch happens tonight, up to +

[10:47]
4

[10:47]
Town gets access to EVERYTHING

[10:47]
Which could easily include thing(s) that push the stress to the other end of the spectrum.

[10:48]
Which would then allow the cluster to be triggered

[10:49]
It's all theory though

[10:49]
Maybe their strongest things drop it to 0

[10:49]
Maybe the strongest things have lower priority

drixx [10:50 AM]
yeah ... like that would be awesome if it worked out that way

cerberus_v6.66 [10:51 AM]
Yeah

drixx [10:51 AM]
I'm just frustrated by two things atm: we have no idea how to recruit our traitor, even though we know almost for certain who it is.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:51 AM]
Yeah

drixx [10:51 AM]
And ... we have no rolecop or anything like that to get info (although from what wasn't redacted in KC's flip, that wouldn't help) so remote detonating is like a total crapshoot.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:52 AM]
(Which is exacerbated by the fact that her allying with ANYONE but us seems like it would take the situation to resolve)

[10:52]
Yeah

[10:52]
Well, remote detonating CLAIMED BP is a bit worse than a crapshoot.

drixx [11:02 AM]
except there's a shit ton of BP in the game

cerberus_v6.66 [11:02 AM]
Untrje

[11:02]
SC doesn't count

[11:02]
It's Titus and Yume

[11:03]
And our event reward, ehich we didn't have to trigger

drixx [11:03 AM]
if I had to weight probabilities, I would say it's much more likely that Steven can give out BP (Titus slipped and leaked that Yume gave her BP, which implies x-shot) and can BG (Yume claimed that).

cerberus_v6.66 [11:03 AM]
And we have two ways to gain strongmen

[11:03]
Yeah, agreed

drixx [11:03 AM]
Like we know that steven can give other people BP because Titus (who has given out all kinds of info today; holy shit)

cerberus_v6.66 [11:03 AM]
Steven might have @ shot bp too

drixx [11:04 AM]
Steven's role would have to look something like this though:

[11:04]
x-shot BP for self

[11:04]
x-shot give out x-shot BP to others

[11:04]
x-shot BG

[11:04]
looking at our steven, we had BG with the ability to make ourselves kill immune once that got refreshed with finales (and fuzzy right?)

[11:05]
Steven, as a general rule in the show, tends to want to protect others, right?

cerberus_v6.66 [11:05 AM]
Yep

[11:06]
I expect a refresh on the finale

[11:06]
Of some abilities

[11:06]
Our team is umm

[11:06]
Kinda fairly low power

[11:06]
Most of our strength came from vote stuff I think

[11:07]
The events are good I guess

[11:07]
Makes it hard to evaluate

drixx [11:12 AM]
I think the events are meant for swing

[11:13]
and if we succeeded in blowing Yume up and getting a night kill in, you're spot on

[11:13]
I'd kind of want to kill firebringer to avoid him giving out a gun; a couple people might shoot us, especially if the crystal gems aren't benign

cerberus_v6.66 [11:14 AM]
Mmm

[11:14]
If we remote detonated yume between the hammer and lynch

[11:15]
THAT would implicate farside

[11:15]
And explain why she wasn't fighting her lynch

[11:15]
At leasr, not the way she said she could

[11:15]
In forcing someone else to be hammered

drixx [11:17 AM]
yeah that would be a nice outcome

cerberus_v6.66 [11:18 AM]
Oh, also, part of my thought process with the whole scum event or not thing

[11:19]
Was that we could remote detonate and someone on our team could claim the event

[11:19]
I Ike TWIE

[11:19]
*like twie*

[11:19]
Remote detonator farside, that is

[11:20]
Or SS, to buy town. Credit

[11:20]
Since shooting her with a day vig is good in this situation

drixx [11:20 AM]
well we need someone to directly claim their flavor

[11:20]
the only person to do it so far is Yume

cerberus_v6.66 [11:21 AM]
Farside did it

[11:21]
She's kevin

[11:21]
Said it early today

[11:21]
The scum event tag means we can't use that path thoufh

[11:22]
So it doesn't really matter

[11:22]
Just realized I hadn't explained my full train of thought regarding the issue

drixx [11:22 AM]
blowing Farside up would certainly rock the gamestate

[11:22]
I'm just not sure what people would make of it

[11:23]
I /think/, given how much farside is doubtcasting us, that it MIGHT strengthen town reads on us as it could be interpreted as an attempt to frame us

[11:23]
but Yume dead before the finale seems like a better choice

cerberus_v6.66 [11:23 AM]
Sure

drixx [11:23 AM]
Like you made the point about how weak our roles are, relatively speaking

[11:23]
and they are

cerberus_v6.66 [11:24 AM]
The only value in killing farside would be to give SS credit for it

[11:24]
And we can't do that.

drixx [11:24 AM]
So we have mechanical reasons to believe Yume probably isn't BP (she gave out BP to Titus, she claimed to be able to BG) and flavor reasons (Steven is about protecting others moreso than himself).

[11:24]
and of course our experience as Steven. We could BG and not die but only once every 4 days

[11:25]
or was it twice?

[11:25]
anyway ... we have a decent amount of evidence in the "probably not day protected right now" pile

cerberus_v6.66 [11:25 AM]
Bg twice every x days, but we'd be BP only once

drixx [11:25 AM]
and only Yume claiming what any outed main character should in the "might be protected" pile

cerberus_v6.66 [11:25 AM]
Could trigger them together or separately

drixx [11:25 AM]
so yeah

[11:26]
like ... driving stress all the way up could allow for town to rebound hard and drive stress way down and let us trigger the cluster

cerberus_v6.66 [11:26 AM]
Scum only had one strongman shot in that game though

[11:26]
We have infinite ones in theory

drixx [11:26 AM]
but even if it doesn't do that ... blowing Yume up and shooting Firebringer (to prevent him giving out dayvigs) seems like a decent plan

[11:26]
in theory

[11:27]
the game has to be going crazy heavy against us for us to actually have it

[11:27]
and then as soon as we use it we lose it

[11:27]
not accounting for Skybird's, but even it is stress limited

[11:27]
basically all of our good stuff requires that town be winning

[11:27]
it's literally designed to blunt swing, from what we know

cerberus_v6.66 [11:30 AM]
If it's just skybird or skybird+jaspar alive it's an unlimited strongman.

[11:30]
But yeah, I know.

drixx [11:41 AM]
well ...

[11:41]
what do you tink of my posts this morning?

cerberus_v6.66 [11:43 AM]
Good stuff

[11:43]
Handled things and brought up stuff that needed to be brought up

drixx [11:52 AM]
it's going to be really hard to keep this up without carefully sacrificing team members along the way

[11:52]
we need to be right enough that people are convinced we're town and that we're the ones who cracked it open

drixx [2:14 PM]
good post @ MOI

[2:14]
I have one but I'm not sure if I should post it or not

[2:14]
want a preview?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:17 PM]
Thanks

[2:17]
Naw post what what you want man

[2:18]
Too much vetting of each others posts makes them feel even less organic

[2:18]
And our posting already feels manufactured compared to other people.

drixx [2:20 PM]
well I'm really not sure about this post

[2:20]
it could totally diffuse MoI

[2:21]
or it could make him tunnel the fukc out of us (apparently he's Titus-like when he tunnels)

cerberus_v6.66 [2:21 PM]
Maybe I'm too cocku

drixx [2:21 PM]
also ... did you notice nobody answered me when I asked if the gems are all mod confirmed to one another?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:21 PM]
But he's certainly not frightening me

[2:21]
Yeah

drixx [2:21 PM]
like ... that has a huge bearing on what is most likely with them

cerberus_v6.66 [2:21 PM]
That'd because they aren't. ;p

drixx [2:21 PM]
or they are

cerberus_v6.66 [2:22 PM]
Mm

[2:22]
I suppose.

drixx [2:22 PM]
if they are, then their win con cannot be what Yume said it is. It just can't.

[2:22]
It would be the most stacked against scum game ever designed

[2:22]
did you see how much shit was redacted from KC's abilities?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:22 PM]
Yeah

[2:22]
3 apparent fusion abilities

[2:23]
And 2 unrelated abilities

[2:23]
AND their win con

[2:23]
Thst slot alone is stronger than our whole team..;p

drixx [2:23 PM]
no fucking kidding, right?

[2:23]
here's the part that scares the shit out of me

cerberus_v6.66 [2:23 PM]
Of course

[2:23]
Flavor wise

[2:24]
Jaspar is stronger than amethyst

drixx [2:24 PM]
part that WASN'T redacted was that they would investigate as scum

cerberus_v6.66 [2:24 PM]
So, like

drixx [2:24 PM]
which implies cops

[2:24]
even though varsoon hates cops

cerberus_v6.66 [2:24 PM]
Meh

[2:24]
There's a gunsmith we know of already

[2:24]
And dgb has a cop power

[2:24]
That explains if

drixx [2:24 PM]
but cops in a game with millers and lots of 3rd party gems who return false positives

cerberus_v6.66 [2:24 PM]
I'm quite willing to believe the entire point of thst was to fuck over dgb

drixx [2:24 PM]
well sure maybe

cerberus_v6.66 [2:25 PM]
If she allied with klingon. ;p

drixx [2:25 PM]
I guess at this point someone would have copped us

cerberus_v6.66 [2:25 PM]
Yes

[2:25]
Barring finale restrictions

[2:25]
Or things tied to events

drixx [2:25 PM]
I'm sort of bemuused by how much people seem to respect us when we generally get our shit pushed in as scum and manage to lead town to the brink of victory and then fail.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:25 PM]
Mhm

[2:25]
It's fucking weird

[2:26]
We talk a good game

[2:26]
And exude confidence.

[2:26]
Overall, in spite of our dismissive comments about our early game

drixx [2:26 PM]
Well we also have two very high intellects, we're both detail oriented, we both actively spend time honing our rational thinking

[2:26]
like ... we're formidable in a certain way

[2:27]
The only way to fool us is refusing to give us any interaction (See: Xtoxm)

cerberus_v6.66 [2:28 PM]
Yeah

[2:28]
And the post looks fine

[2:29]
The ONLY questionable thing might be the overreaction factor

[2:29]
Since I had already responded

[2:29]
But a response from you makes sense, since we are are hydra

[2:29]
And the post was directed at you

[2:30]
You should remind NC that the hydra is RR

[2:30]
Not Cerb

[2:30]
Because he keeps attributing stuff you said to me.

[2:30]
*they keep*

[2:30]
It keeps.

[2:32]
Yume says she believes there is scum among them

[2:33]
They aren't confirmed to one another.

[2:33]
They probably have a PT title The Temple

[2:33]
And maybe they were all told Yume is Steven or something

[2:33]
But they weren't told anything about one another?

drixx [2:38 PM]
that makes sense

[2:39]
also we're a hydra so we're responsible for what each other posts

[2:39]
the #1 thing people hate about hydras is someone in the hydra saying "I didn't say that!"

cerberus_v6.66 [2:40 PM]
Sure,but he keeps calling us as a whole Cerb and it's disconcerting! also, possible sign of trouble

[2:40]
A50 just went ot the thread with an indication of something he may have received from Yume that he didn't tell us about.

[2:41]
Well see if he make a post in the pt about it

[2:41]
But it's a sign of waning trust imp

[2:41]
*imo*

drixx [2:43 PM]
You mean Yume reaching out to A50?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:44 PM]
I mean maybe he just meant the vite

[2:44]
But he said she rocks snd asked if she could do something again

[2:44]
With no explanation

[2:44]
Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

drixx [2:45 PM]
she gives out BP

cerberus_v6.66 [2:48 PM]
Yeah

[2:48]
But he didn't tell us.

[2:48]
;p

[2:48]
That's what worries me!

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
Bleh I should have told you not to ask. :/

[2:56]
I intended to see if he told us anything of his own volition

drixx [3:00 PM]
now he's spilling though ;p

[3:00]
should we just go ahead and tell him who we are?

[3:00]
we need to make a very townie info dump to him before the day ends, or are we not wanting to do that?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:01 PM]
No reason not to

[3:01]
But idk what info we want to share with him and not everyone else

drixx [3:02 PM]
well it's all a gambit

[3:02]
if we die the gig's up

[3:03]
so the info dump is simply to covince him even more that we're town which is like a disease he carries with him to the next alliance

cerberus_v6.66 [3:03 PM]
Haha

drixx [4:08 PM]
okay so ... Titus is just voting Snarky, despite being sure he's town

[4:08]
which I guess is a free mislynch to us huzzah!

[4:08]
but we need to decide whether to detonate or not quickly

[4:08]
because people are just going to sheep

cerberus_v6.66 [4:12 PM]
obh

[4:12]
lol

[4:12]
you were already here

[4:13]
should we tell A50 about our belief that shiro is ronaldo?

[4:13]
well

[4:13]
my suspicion at least

[4:13]
I shared that with you right?

[4:17]
we could totally deny town a bunch of alliaces I think

[4:17]
if we wanted to

[4:17]
including titus

[4:17]
if we wanted to kill her

[4:17]

[4:17]
since I'm pretty sure all members need to submit all other members

[4:17]
if titus goes shiro/us

[4:17]
shiro goes us/titus

[4:17]
and we go shiro/someone else

[4:17]
then nobody gets an alliance

[4:18]
since the only other alternative is shiro ends up with two alliances

drixx [4:19 PM]
that would be pretty shady though

[4:19]
and yeah I mean ... I see no reason not to dump some info to A50

cerberus_v6.66 [4:27 PM]
and yeah, it would be shady, of course

[4:27]
for us at least

[4:27]
the other members of our team could absolutely get away with it

[4:27]

[4:27]
in theory, we could deny town all their alliances

[4:27]
well, 5 alliances

[4:28]
not worth it though

[4:28]
anyways

drixx [4:57 PM]
brilliant post in the alliance PT

cerberus_v6.66 [5:06 PM]
Oh? Thanks.

drixx [7:04 PM]
?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:04 PM]
I really feel like if we could get town to lynch farside again

[7:04]
and show titus is wrong

[7:04]
they would just hseep mastin forever

[7:04]
and she is SOOOO much more off track

[7:04]
than titus

[7:04]
(assuming the next farside lynch kills her)

[7:04]
maybe it wouldn't

[7:05]
idk, maybe creature instead

[7:05]
just...titus being wrong, and being shown as wrong, is helpful

[7:05]
maybe I'm too focused on removing support from town pillars

----- October 9th -----
drixx [4:09 AM]
they're eroding their own credibility

cerberus_v6.66 [3:19 PM]
Lol

[3:20]
One could say that

[3:20]
They've also killed the thread

[3:21]
Hasn't been any major discussion that isn't titus/mastin/farside focused this whole phase

drixx [3:22 PM]
friend stopping by in a moment

[3:22]
read my post in scum PT

[3:23]
It's basically my full line of thought and why I want to RD

[3:23]
feel free to rebutt

[3:23]
also, Farside is being a *redacted* (not really, I put that there to see if anyone but Varsoon will read this) and is pushing us for why we aren't talking about the suspects in the non-confirmed voting pool

[3:23]
I actually already talked about that

[3:23]
I said we're hip deep in scumspects, so why alert the people we suspect before we have to

cerberus_v6.66 [3:24 PM]
Mhm

[3:24]
Idk man.

[3:24]
Everybody else says no so far.

[3:25]
I'm a team player yo

drixx [4:28 PM]
what do you think of my thinking on it tho?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:31 PM]
It's reasonable.

cerberus_v6.66 [4:57 PM]
I mean that's an underwhelming response by me

[4:57]
But it's sorta the thinking we've been tossing back and forth here all day

drixx [6:05 PM]
I think where I exit the loop is the single sentence I started with:

[6:05]
Our desire that someone flavor claims honestly and then lives until the right moment won't make it so.

cerberus_v6.66 [6:12 PM]
I feel it is guaranteed that there will be numerous outright flavor claims in the next few day phases

[6:12]
It always happens

[6:12]
It has nothing to do with our desires

[6:13]
But with the trends of what generally happens

----- October 10th -----
drixx [1:02 PM]
[12:28] <cerberusv6.66> Morning

[1:02]
[14:57] <cerberusv6.66> SS is fine with doing it

[1:02]
[14:58] <cerberusv6.66> Twie doesn't care

[1:02]
[14:58] <cerberusv6.66> Skybird hasn't really said, she suggested waiting

[1:02]
[14:58] <cerberusv6.66> But she also thought it wouldn't work

[1:02]
[14:59] <cerberusv6.66> If we detonate...we could very possibly sway thr lynch back to farside tiday

[1:02]
[14:59] <cerberusv6.66> Since we can tell Titus that our reason for waiting is fone

[1:02]
[14:59] <cerberusv6.66> Since A50 will enable us.

[1:02]
[15:01] <cerberusv6.66> Confirming that with Varsoon right now

[1:02]
[15:01] <cerberusv6.66> If so, and with the lack or progress towards a snarky lynch

[1:02]
[15:01] <cerberusv6.66> I think that may push me towards the detonate plan too.

[1:02]
[15:01] <Drixx> yeah ... that would work

[1:02]
[15:01] <cerberusv6.66> Also discredits titus today!

cerberus_v6.66 [1:02 PM]
Thanks

[1:02]
We also end up with the same two mislynches in a row scenario

[1:02]
Which is in danger right now because snarky votes aren't piling on

[1:03]
Because he doesn't do enough for anyone to care. ;p

drixx [1:45 PM]
it seems like apathy

[1:46]
like ... town leaders are fighting one another

[1:46]
and Mastin has given no actual reasoning for anything

cerberus_v6.66 [1:47 PM]
Yeah

[1:47]
What I'm afraid of here though is compromise

[1:47]
Because right now there ARE a couple names they could compromise on that will be scum lynches

[1:47]
Mainly DGB

[1:47]
I guess

[1:48]
Mastin completely disagrees with Titus on a lot of other things, but might be willing to compromise on skybird or TWIE

cerberus_v6.66 [2:06 PM]
Varsoon confirmed our hammer kill will indeed be in effect

drixx [2:24 PM]
that is what I figured

cerberus_v6.66 [2:24 PM]
Yeah, just had to be sure

[2:24]
Because its not an activated ability

[2:24]
But rather a replacement/triggered/rider effect of hammering

cerberus_v6.66 [3:03 PM]
Meh, if you wanna do it do it!

[3:03]
You need to find Yume's quote where she says she's steven

drixx [3:03 PM]
I'll tell the team you told me to make the call and if it fails that it's on me

cerberus_v6.66 [3:04 PM]

[3:04]
One possible problem

[3:04]
If it fails

[3:04]
Stress won't increase at all

[3:04]
The increase from triggering doesn't happen until the end of the Climax phasw

drixx [3:06 PM]
yeah I saw that

[3:06]
hoping it doesn't fail

cerberus_v6.66 [3:06 PM]
Yeah. :/

drixx [3:24 PM]
Hello Varsoon,

[3:24]
In post 7186, Yume wrote:

[3:24]
Well, it's already been revealed twice, so might as well confirm it. I am Steven.

[3:24]
Would you kindly Remote Detonate please?

[3:24]
Thanks,

[3:24]
hope you get the reference

cerberus_v6.66 [5:02 PM]
After the detonation happenx, you need to call for a hold on votes, and tell Titus we can do the thing she thought we could now.

drixx [5:29 PM]
Yeah; I pinged Varsoon on Skype and he said he was busy and I just said I was anxious

[5:29]
and he said he had already told you that it was almost certainly going to succeed

cerberus_v6.66 [5:31 PM]
Yeah, I just eidnr want to say anything cause like

[5:31]
Idk, feels like cheatiness

[5:31]
For us to post

[5:32]
With advance knowledge of success

[5:32]
Before the thread knows

[5:32]
I thought he'd just be telling me a few minutes before

[5:32]
And I didn't wanna keep checking the thread at work..

[5:35]
Like, we could make a huge post of trying to work with Yume or some th ing

[5:36]
That is weird for someone to do to someone they're about to kill

cerberus_v6.66 [5:43 PM]
How is it possible for someone to not know my position on DGB?

[5:44]
I mean, I don't outright say I'm scumreading xyz

[5:44]
But the conclusions I state about their behavior making sense or jot should give you a good idea

[5:44]
Plus for once, I actually DID say I was scumreading DGB and my only cause for pause waa the klingon kill.

drixx [8:36 PM]
[22:05] <cerberusv6.66> Hey, are you ever going to give A50 reads?

[8:36]
[22:06] <Drixx> yeah ... wanted to talk to you about it first though

[8:36]
[22:06] <cerberusv6.66> Just do it! cause I'm not gonna ^^

[8:36]
[22:06] <Drixx> okay then

[8:36]
[22:06] <cerberusv6.66> I would have stayed super far away from making up a reads list

[8:36]
[22:06] <cerberusv6.66>

[8:36]
[22:07] <cerberusv6.66> I mean we can talk about it

[8:36]
[22:07] <Drixx> oh no ... I want a reads list out there if we flip

[8:36]
[22:07] <Drixx> Titus and Mastin both make assumptions "rule of three" and shit

[8:36]
[22:07] <Drixx> we can totally fuck with their heads

[8:36]
[22:07] <cerberusv6.66> Lol

[8:36]
[22:34] <Drixx> I'll spend some time tonight and do it

[8:36]
[22:35] <cerberusv6.66> Okies. I'm not really sure how best to accomplish your goals here

[8:36]
[22:35] <cerberusv6.66> Or else I'd offer advice.

[8:36]
[22:35] <Drixx> I just need to read Titus' "rule of three" thing

[8:36]
[22:35] <Drixx> the idea is to go against it (which she'll expect) but in a way that she won't expect

[8:36]
[22:36] <cerberusv6.66> Yeah

[8:36]
[22:36] <Drixx> the simplest way is to put ALL of our team in the scum reads or firm town reads

[8:36]
[22:36] <Drixx> since scum NEVER put their whole team in one place

[8:36]
[22:36] <cerberusv6.66> Agreed

[8:36]
[22:36] <cerberusv6.66> I was thinking similarly

[8:36]
the trick is to have good rational reasons for each read

[8:36]
[22:36] <cerberusv6.66> That today's lynch, in defiance of all the previous vca

[8:36]
[22:36] <cerberusv6.66> We should have our entire team on the lynch.

[8:37]
yeah ... if we can get them to respond and do it lol

[8:37]
and ideally it will be on farside

cerberus_v6.66 [8:37 PM]
Thanks sorry, just started talking cuz u wanted you to respond and it doesn't ping here

[8:37]
And yeah

[8:37]
We should suggest that

[8:38]
Tell them that if the detonate gore through, we're going to suggest the farside lynch again

[8:38]
Because A50 will have enabled our ability

[8:38]
And that they should ALL be on that wagon

drixx [8:39 PM]
Yeah man ... do eeet!

[8:39]
so the plan is in place whenever it happens

cerberus_v6.66 [8:43 PM]
Yep

drixx [11:41 PM]
Gambit out

[11:44]
[00:22] <cerberusv6.66> Mbm

[11:44]
[00:23] <cerberusv6.66> You need to be the one to propose anythng involving farside to titus

[11:44]
[00:23] <cerberusv6.66> Since I've been reluctant etc

[11:44]
[00:23] <cerberusv6.66> Well

[11:44]
[00:23] <cerberusv6.66> Maybe jot

[11:44]
[00:23] <cerberusv6.66> I mean I did say my reluctance was because of the ability that'll now be active, hopefully

[11:44]
[01:34] <cerberusv6.66> Ugh

[11:44]
[01:34] <cerberusv6.66> Fucking resurrect wasn't her

[11:44]
[01:34] <cerberusv6.66> Or its factional or some shit

[11:44]
[01:42] <cerberusv6.66> Thanks

[11:44]
[01:42] <cerberusv6.66> Mentioning that we needed to hammer her was pretty bad though. ;^

[11:44]
[01:43] <cerberusv6.66> :/

[11:44]
[01:43] <cerberusv6.66> Possibly

[11:45]
It was intentional.

[11:45]
Titus basically outed that we have a finale ability that would keep Farside from escaping lynch

[11:45]
anyone with half a brain would realize it would involve us finishing the lynch

drixx [11:56 PM]
[01:51] <cerberusv6.66> Pfft, cold feet titus

[11:56]
[01:51] <cerberusv6.66> Hmm

[11:56]
[01:56] <cerberusv6.66> And I guess you're asleep?

[11:56]
[01:56] <Drixx> no

[11:56]
[01:56] <Drixx> I'm typing in the hydra channel

[11:56]
[01:56] <Drixx> and copying what you say there

[11:56]
[01:56] <Drixx> so I can put it in the PT

cerberus_v6.66 [11:57 PM]
Meh, still think it was bad because farside could have easily missed if

[11:58]
And she could now race us to hammer herself. ;p

[11:58]
And get her points!

[11:58]
Anyways, sfupid

[11:58]
Fucking delay

[11:58]
Titus is just going to jump to the conclusion that it happened because we were afraid dgb would be lynched

[11:59]
If we lynch dgb and she's scum it basically fucks with a large portion of why we did this

----- October 11th -----
[12:00]
...Titus is dumb

[12:00]
The cluster is what you're concerned about

[12:00]
Not fucking message received

[12:00]
Man

drixx [12:10 AM]
Well ... Firebringer is rapidly scumming himself up

[12:10]
and Titus already outed us earlier

[12:10]
she said to make sure we hammer, remember?

[12:10]
it is what it is

drixx [12:20 AM]
I'm taking gigantic risks with our slot right now

[12:20]
I hope that's okay with you

cerberus_v6.66 [12:42 AM]
Do as you please

[12:42]
I'm irritated because people are being dumb and making connections that don't exist between completely unrelated things

cerberus_v6.66 [12:48 AM]
Your no means no comment was super weird

[12:49]
Please correct titus

[12:49]
Please please please please

[12:49]
I want to go to sleep and if I start to get involved and she knows I'm around she'll ask me questions and studr

[12:50]
But her insane assumption that an event warning of the cluster is the same event this was relates to hurts me

drixx [12:56 AM]
Sexually abused people have the three word phrase "no means no" forever scarred into our minds

drixx [1:04 AM]
I hated making the post I just made but there's no universe in which a town me would not have made it

cerberus_v6.66 [1:05 AM]
Everything about this is bad

drixx [1:05 AM]
Chaos is good

[1:05]
the long delay and intervening change in gamestate is not so good

[1:05]
all we can do is adapt

cerberus_v6.66 [1:10 AM]
No flip is bad

[1:10]
Means the timeline of stress is off

[1:11]
Potential lynch on our traitor is bad

[1:11]
Wtf

[1:11]
Message saying no flip is bad didn't get sent

[1:11]
Anyways

drixx [1:12 AM]
[03:10] <cerberus_v6.66> No flip is bad

[1:12]
I gotta sleep

[1:12]
or at least try

cerberus_v6.66 [1:19 AM]
Yeah, me too

[1:19]
Nigjt

drixx [4:02 PM]
hi

cerberus_v6.66 [4:02 PM]
Yo

[4:02]
Dunno how you wanna spin that

drixx [4:04 PM]
I just ISO'd him this morning because I was confused why the wagon on him wouldn't take. There's NOTHING but fluff there. Surface level he feels like his usual town self, which is to say that he drops in short posts. Looking at his wagon just refuse to move and re-reading him just in ISO, I see nothing of any substance.

[4:04]
This is a really good example of a place where the way we approach things needs to be supplemented by us developing other ways to figure people out.

[4:04]
On an unrelated note: why do people keep interrupting my questions aimed at other players? Like ... there's a freaking reason if I ask someone a question. Let THEM answer. /rant off

[4:04]
that work?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:06 PM]
Yep!

[4:07]
Just wanted to make sure it got addressed before the thread got locked

[4:08]
Fyi, I'm back to hating being scum because nobody else seems to care.

drixx [4:12 PM]
Yeah ... you have just never had the good fortune to get paired with good scum players

[4:12]
except me but we hydra so I'm not another slot

cerberus_v6.66 [5:17 PM]
Naw, I got paired with RC in your game. And we killed itm

cerberus_v6.66 [5:57 PM]
We just got skybird killed

drixx [6:16 PM]
we don't know that for sure

[6:19]
submitted our alliance choices

cerberus_v6.66 [6:20 PM]
Why wouldn't he kill her?

[6:20]
He's not even town

drixx [6:20 PM]
Who?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:20 PM]
Xkfyu

[6:20]
She was removed by his event

[6:20]
Which eill allow her to kill him

drixx [6:21 PM]
So Bismuth got recruited

[6:22]
because the gems fell below a certain threshold

[6:22]
is what it appears to be

cerberus_v6.66 [6:22 PM]
Naw

[6:22]
Bismuth was DGBs fake claim

drixx [6:22 PM]
Post #8588

cerberus_v6.66 [6:22 PM]
And varsoon is setting up for her death flip tomorrow

drixx [6:23 PM]
oh I see

[6:23]
if you have reason to believe that

cerberus_v6.66 [6:23 PM]
That's how I interpret it at least

[6:23]
It makes sense?

drixx [10:08 PM]
bleh what a disaster

cerberus_v6.66 [10:08 PM]
?

drixx [10:08 PM]
just the way things played out

[10:08]
I'm hoping that whomever popped the event decides to let Skybird live

[10:08]
she has done a really good job so far emulating her town game

[10:09]
like ... she has given the exact same vibe as she did in SMITE

[10:09]
would be a huge shame to lose her to some event randomly

[10:09]
Remote Detonator was something we got because Varsoon wanted to punish flavor claiming

[10:10]
it seems shitty that the 3p faction has an event to just instantly zap one of us, when we're an undersized team and facing off against a team our size or larger who can talk together all the time also

[10:10]
like they're bascially another scum faction, for all intents and purposes

cerberus_v6.66 [10:10 PM]
Xkfyu used thr e wnt

[10:10]
And it's mot any different from a vig

drixx [10:10 PM]
I have to take your word for it

[10:10]
you know the flavor and I'm still in season 1

cerberus_v6.66 [10:10 PM]
Yeah

[10:11]
Well no

[10:11]
Like, thus is exactly what A50 told us xkfyu could do

drixx [10:11 PM]
the flavor text implied to me that the person could be released instead of killed

cerberus_v6.66 [10:11 PM]
And yes, thr person could be released

drixx [10:11 PM]
except the scum leader is dead

cerberus_v6.66 [10:11 PM]
No

[10:11]
He had two events

[10:11]
....

[10:11]
One that does the messaging scum leader thing

drixx [10:11 PM]
okay ... yeah

cerberus_v6.66 [10:11 PM]
And one that let's him remove all members of his alliance from the game

[10:12]
And kill one of them if he wants

[10:12]
No reason to jse that power if he's not gonna kill them

[10:12]
Imo

drixx [10:12 PM]
I was thinking this was the take the scum leader and talk to them thing

cerberus_v6.66 [10:12 PM]
No

drixx [10:12 PM]
and yeah ... I mean can he only use tha tonce?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:12 PM]
It's AK event

[10:12]
So yes

drixx [10:13 PM]
because skybird had a couple people scum reading, but was mostly being town read so I'm confused why he'd chance it with her instead of another

[10:13]
maybe firebringer is our traitor and DGB will end up being a mislynch

cerberus_v6.66 [10:13 PM]
Because she's fucking stupid and made an incredibly fake sounding post that accomplished NOTHING but sounding fake

drixx [10:13 PM]
this is going to be hard to win without skybird

cerberus_v6.66 [10:13 PM]
Okah

[10:13]
She isn't stupid

[10:14]
I don't understand why she made that post though

drixx [10:14 PM]
we were pushing all of our teammates to be more active

cerberus_v6.66 [10:14 PM]
I'm very irritated

drixx [10:14 PM]
did you see her post that got deleted?

cerberus_v6.66 [10:14 PM]
Yeah

[10:14]
More active means doing things

[10:14]
Not making fluff posts

[10:15]
And yes, without her slot this is nearly unwinnable imo

drixx [10:15 PM]
I'm going to try and play the day of my life tomorrow in the alliance with Titus and Shiro

[10:15]
Mastin is no longer scum reading us (no idea why not) so if we can solidify those two, we can maybe carry this home

cerberus_v6.66 [10:15 PM]
We have no way to remove the conftown if we want

drixx [10:15 PM]
we're going to have to be ruthless with TWIE and SS though

cerberus_v6.66 [10:15 PM]
I don't care enough right now

[10:16]
Come talk to me about this in 80 hours

drixx [10:16 PM]
okay

cerberus_v6.66 [10:16 PM]
Well trigger TWIE's thingie that locks the thread

[10:16]
So it'll be a other 5 days before we have to post

[10:16]
Although well have the alliance

[10:16]
Ugh

[10:17]
I sincerely want our slot to die right now.

[10:17]
If I thought our team could win without us, I would suggest twie uses his event to catch us and get us lynched as I suggested before

drixx [10:17 PM]
This feels like a particularly difficult game to be assigned scum

cerberus_v6.66 [10:18 PM]
Harder than the other bullshit he set us up versus in the other games we played of his

[10:19]
Our team had access to potentially controlling 10 votes (6 members plus sc alliance plus skybird bonus plus dgb vote steal plus skybirds pearl)

[10:19]
So in theory, we could have won the game on like D3 or so

[10:20]
If we removed all vigs, recruited the traitor, and got rid of thr gems

[10:20]
Lot of stuff out of our control

[10:21]
And we've lose all our extra votes now so we have a godfather, a limited roleblocker that leaves a trail behind(if anyone is watching carefully), and a self watcher.

[10:21]
...

[10:21]
I was bitching to varsoon earlier aboit being completely over this game

[10:22]
And he was like, well, you guys did kill some extremely powerful roles

[10:22]
And I'm like

[10:22]
Who the fuck cares

[10:22]
We have 2 BP conftown and AT LEAST 2 other unlynchable slots in the gems

[10:23]
We're already outnumbered by people we can't remove. And it's 3 unlynchable slots for the gems actually

[10:23]
Games score after tonight ends sill be 4 tow deaths and 3 scum deaths

[10:23]
Fucking abysmal

[10:23]
Ugh

[10:23]
Sorry

[10:23]
Okah

[10:23]
Yeah, let's not talk about this.

drixx [10:24 PM]
I appreciate what he's doing with the game. I am as down about it as you are.

[10:24]
I will try though

cerberus_v6.66 [10:26 PM]
I'll probably try, just not right now

[10:27]
Team doesn't deserve my fucking effort to plan out their actions if they're too lazy to fucking plah

[10:28]
You can leave all this in btw, and it'll be a reward for anyone who ever reads it, they'll learn that I really am an asshole

drixx [10:30 PM]
blunt

[10:30]
not an asshole

cerberus_v6.66 [10:31 PM]
Eh

[10:31]
I have unrealistic expectations from my teammates.

[10:32]
And am irritated at them for not living up to said expectations

[10:32]
Pretty unreasonable really

[10:33]
Exacerbated by the feeling that if we just hadn't killed yume skybird wouldn't have died, snarky would have been hammered by farside, and we'd be in a much better spot

[10:34]
And yes, dgb might be town. It's not impossible

[10:34]
Just extremely improbable

drixx [10:34 PM]
Part of that is Varsoon being busy

[10:34]
the shift that went on in the game in those hours...

[10:35]
and no; it is NOT unreasonable to expect a scum team to play actively

cerberus_v6.66 [10:36 PM]
Sure, but we could have cancelled the kill

[10:36]
If we thought it would be bad at that point

[10:36]
Well

[10:36]
I guess once I asked varsoon if it would succeed we couldn't have cancelled it

----- October 13th -----
drixx [1:31 PM]
[15:29] <cerberusv6.66> We have 4 hours in SU to make choices

[1:31]
[15:30] <Drixx> I think something like TWIE kills Not Chara is it?

[1:31]
[15:30] * cerberusv6.66 is away.

[1:31]
[15:30] <Drixx> TWIE explicitly said he didn't want to use his event

[1:31]
[15:30] <Drixx> Shadow may be watched so he needs to do nothing

[1:31]
[15:31] <Drixx> if we get observed killing then it's GG

cerberus_v6.66 [1:35 PM]
He didn't say he didn't eamt to use his event

[1:35]
He asked what we're trying to get out of it

[1:35]
And I asked him to tell me what else we could use it for beyond just learning up to 3 slots roles

[1:36]
Also, shadow CAN'T do anything

[1:36]
And why are we killing NC?

drixx [1:39 PM]
unlikely to be a mislynch and not a kill that will cause Mastin to reassess

[1:39]
also not likely to be protected

[1:40]
at this point we kind of have to get Titus either so fully sure we're town that she'll never let us be lynched

[1:40]
or we need to kill her and let mastin run the game

[1:40]
imo

cerberus_v6.66 [1:40 PM]
We want titus alive tomorrow

[1:41]
Other argument against that kill thst I didn't mention..

[1:41]
So she can lynch farside. ^^

[1:41]
I really hope dgb is town

[1:41]
And fb was the traitor somehow

[1:42]
So we can talk shit on her when she tries to argue that we have to kill farside today cuz of our hammer power

[1:42]
When she chose to forgo using it yesterday. ;p

[1:42]
Ofc, of dgb is scum, like she probably is, meh. :/

[1:42]
Anyways

drixx [1:42 PM]
I'm hoping somehow that Fire is our traitor

[1:43]
but ... probably DGB

[1:43]

cerberus_v6.66 [1:43 PM]
NC won't be lynched, grapes won't be lynched

[1:43]
Mmm

[1:43]
A50 won't be lynched

drixx [1:43 PM]
A50 thinks we're town

cerberus_v6.66 [1:43 PM]
MoI/Random/Xkfyu are unlikely to be lynched

drixx [1:43 PM]
we need enough people around who think we're town to win

cerberus_v6.66 [1:43 PM]
Mastin and Titus will not be lynched

[1:43]
Everybody else is fair game I think

drixx [1:43 PM]
Gems could be lynched, or I'd be suggesting someone in the gem pool

[1:44]
so I stayed away from the wrong scum on Titus/Mastin lists

cerberus_v6.66 [1:44 PM]
Disagree

[1:44]
About the gems

[1:44]
The only one that could be lynched is random imo

[1:44]
But lynches on them won't happen until so late on the gams

drixx [1:44 PM]
anyone with a brain should realize the gems don't win with town

cerberus_v6.66 [1:45 PM]
That their voting bloc should keep them from being lynched

[1:45]
Nobody has half a brain apparently

[1:45]
If skybirds dead though yeah we should just ignore the gems

[1:45]
But if she's alive we should focus on them..:/

[1:46]
If skybirds dead we should ignore them

drixx [1:46 PM]
that's how I arrived at Not Chara

[1:46]
safest kill (unlikely to be protected or watched, not going to screw with Mastin or Titus' bad reads)

cerberus_v6.66 [1:48 PM]
I feel like they're someone we can completely bamboozle

[1:48]
Buy they're suspicious of our partners

[1:48]
I guess it works

[1:48]
Well semi suspicious

[1:49]
Willing to sheep a wagon, but not pushing

[1:49]
We need to protect twie /SS with our kills

[1:53]
What about TWIE's event?

drixx [2:12 PM]
he says he doesn't want to us eit

[2:12]
use it*

cerberus_v6.66 [2:12 PM]
..

[2:12]
He did not say that?

[2:13]
This is the second time you said he said that, and I told you the first time that he didn't and told you what he did say...

[2:14]
I would copy and paste, but I'm using the app so copying more than one line sicks

[2:14]
But just scroll up.

drixx [2:15 PM]
I'm sorry

[2:15]
He asked for there to be some specific goal to get from it and said "otherwise we shouldn't"

cerberus_v6.66 [2:15 PM]

In post 728, TheWayItEnds wrote:if we're using my even we should have something specific to get out of it.

otherwise we probably shouldnt.

In post 730, TheWayItEnds wrote:i mean are we looking for a doc or something?

its also possible that people will just truthfully claim on their own and we get some free info.

In post 733, TheWayItEnds wrote:I can still claim my self watch, but i'll be left eventless which i agree could be a problem.

drixx [2:15 PM]
since I saw no clear "specific" to get out of it, I defaulted to "otherwise we probably shouldn't"

cerberus_v6.66 [2:16 PM]
And I asked him waht other goal we couldbhave

[2:16]
What or her scenario he could construct ehere it does something more than give us info

[2:16]
And he didn't have one.

drixx [2:16 PM]
well he's only said like 2 sentences during the night phase

cerberus_v6.66 [2:16 PM]
Amd then started talking about hoe people might just claim truthfully and tell us even more

drixx [2:16 PM]
the thing is ... what HE has said is "We need a specific goal or we shouldn't"

cerberus_v6.66 [2:16 PM]
So that clearly implies acceptance of using it

drixx [2:16 PM]
and we haven't given him a specific goal he agreed with

[2:17]
ergo it's ethically in a bad place to use his event without his consent, and I expect Varsoon to reject it

cerberus_v6.66 [2:17 PM]
Whatever man

[2:17]
Do what you want

[2:17]
I think you're bring ridiculous

[2:17]
*being*

drixx [2:18 PM]
using an event precludes being the killer?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:19 PM]
Nope

[2:19]
Events are completely separate from actions

drixx [2:21 PM]
TWIE kills Not Chara

[2:21]
TWIE uses Historical Fiction on Episode 1

cerberus_v6.66 [2:21 PM]
Honestly, don't do it if you think it's unethical to do so and he made it clear he didn't want to use it

drixx [2:21 PM]
it's ambiguous

[2:21]
and frankly I'm irritated as fuck that our team doesn't want to talk

cerberus_v6.66 [2:22 PM]
I just can't think of any other usage for it

drixx [2:22 PM]
it's like "Oh ... RR can just do it all. They'll make it work."

cerberus_v6.66 [2:22 PM]
Other than catching someone lying

[2:22]
Or bussing one of us.

[2:22]
And we don't know who we could catch lying

drixx [2:22 PM]
maybe we'll catch a gem lying

[2:23]
and TWIE can claim the event and out the gems as not actually town-compatible

[2:23]
and get his ass into the game finally

cerberus_v6.66 [2:23 PM]
Clawing the event does have negatives

[2:23]
Mainly that he's forgoing fighting the cluster

[2:23]
So there is a negative to claiming it 100% of the time

[2:24]
That negative may be outweighed by other considerations

[2:24]
I also don't know what he could catch them doing on N1 that would make them not town compatible

[2:24]
Just lying is fine

drixx [2:24 PM]
they are already outed as lying

cerberus_v6.66 [2:24 PM]
It's what the revealed action is that may be a big deal

drixx [2:25 PM]
lie enough and the question becomes "Why do they have to lie so much if they're essentially town?"

cerberus_v6.66 [2:25 PM]
Eh

[2:25]
What have rhe lied about?

[2:25]
That we can prove they lied about?

drixx [2:25 PM]
almost certainly win con

cerberus_v6.66 [2:25 PM]
Can't prove it

[2:25]
We know yume said just win con would be obscured

[2:25]
But we can't prove the gems knew that other stuff wouldn't show up

drixx [2:26 PM]
but their actions and posts about it make it really clear that all is not right

[2:26]
fair enough

cerberus_v6.66 [2:26 PM]
I'm not sure it's actionable is the thing

[2:26]
Well, actually, I KNOW it's not actionable

[2:26]
Or else one of them would have been lynched yesterday.

drixx [2:27 PM]
people are too tied to the flavor idea that the gems are all about earth

[2:27]
the thing is... they're not

[2:27]
Steven is

[2:27]
the rest of them don't give a shit

[2:30]
I feel like it should be really plain to everyone that the gems aren't a separate town faction

[2:31]
it makes no sense to have a gigantic masonry who is called their own alignement and when they flip they are aligned with "NOT TOWN" and say that makes sense from a game design standpoint

cerberus_v6.66 [2:32 PM]
Flavor wise...the gems are ALL about earth

[2:32]
They had the war with Homeworld because Homeworld wanted to basically strip mine earth and kill everyone on thr planet

[2:33]
Of course the impetus behind said rebellion was Stevens extremely charismatic mother

[2:34]
So a case could be made that only that rose quartz really cares, in any incarnation

[2:34]
And everyone else is just following orders /swayed by her charisma

[2:35]
Oh

[2:35]
Hmm

[2:35]
Twie has his self watch thing

[2:35]
He isn't allowed with anyone because dgb died

[2:36]
So it'd be the more powerful version

drixx [2:39 PM]
hrm...

[2:39]
that requires us to kill tho

cerberus_v6.66 [2:39 PM]
Mhk

drixx [2:40 PM]
I mean ... is it egocentric to think that we have to be alive till the end at this point?

[2:40]
I don't see how Shadow or TWIE pull it off without us

cerberus_v6.66 [2:40 PM]
Twie could do itm

[2:40]
Easily imo

drixx [2:41 PM]
if he played like he has in other games

[2:41]
if I exclude what I know of him from any other game and look at just THIS game ...

cerberus_v6.66 [2:41 PM]
Lol

drixx [2:56 PM]
got it beeping here

cerberus_v6.66 [3:01 PM]
Well xone

[3:01]
What did yo need to do?

drixx [3:01 PM]
change a setting that I had already changed a dozen times

[3:01]
worked this time

cerberus_v6.66 [3:02 PM]
Lol

cerberus_v6.66 [8:42 PM]
Yep, she was the trajtor

[8:42]
Good job failing dgb

[8:42]
Read the fucking game next time

drixx [8:44 PM]
that was so fucking bungled on her part

[8:44]
holy shit

cerberus_v6.66 [8:45 PM]
Yep

[8:46]
Awesome role though

----- October 14th -----
drixx [2:45 PM]
Because of Shiro's power we have to claim our roleblock

cerberus_v6.66 [2:45 PM]
Actually, I don't think we have to

[2:45]
I need to read exactly what he claimed

drixx [2:45 PM]
We're Sadie and our stuff (aside from beach-a-palooza) is all themed around the Lars/Sadie love/hate relationship. There's one bit we haven't talked about but since Shiro will now be able to use it, going to claim it, against Cerb's suggestion.

[2:45]
Our primary alliance ability has a long name:

"I Understand Enough! You're only my friend when it's convenient for you.

" - If we're in an alliance with a player and only if they choose to ally differently, we may cause ALL of their actions to fail. If we do this, we choose each climax whether to keep doing this. If we stop, we cannot resume. -- This strikes me as something potentially super

[2:45]
powerful in Shiro's hands.

[2:46]
That's what I was going to say

cerberus_v6.66 [2:46 PM]
You can't claim the exact name

drixx [2:47 PM]
I've claimed the flavor name for abilities before word for word and it was okay

[2:47]
I'll check with Varsoon to be sure

cerberus_v6.66 [2:47 PM]
Ta

[2:47]
And

[2:47]
I don't think that's what shiro does

[2:47]
Need to reread

drixx [2:47 PM]
I read it as he can choose to have access to all the alliance abilities of his alliances

[2:48]
and that is our alliance ability, even though it only comes into play AFTER an alliance is broken

[2:48]
but I think claiming it with the idea that Shiro can use it as shiro isn't high profile probably gives us even more cachet as likely town

[2:48]
I know you like that word

cerberus_v6.66 [2:49 PM]
Lol

[2:49]
Sec

[2:50]
His claim is very unclear

[2:53]
Luckily for us, we never used our power for evil.

[2:53]
Also, I think Titus believes we're scum

[2:53]
Well

[2:53]
That's what I thought last night

[2:54]
I feel like she's trying to lull us into complacency

[2:54]
And the cookie baking comment was code for some game they had with thor where he was scjm

[2:54]
*scum*

[2:54]
I was going to check their games together and their games in hydra at at some point

[2:55]
However, her asking shiro to full claim doesn't jive with the belief that she thinks we're scum.

drixx [2:55 PM]
I think she was legit complimenting us to Shiro

cerberus_v6.66 [2:55 PM]
But yes, our ability, of shiro has it, combined with us having that dame ability (assuming we can ally outside of this

[2:55]
As toen

[2:56]
Will allow SWIFT PoE of scum suspects

[2:56]
By forcing people to ally with us for us ti roleblock

[2:56]
Of course, it also give sus a unique opportunity to falsely clear people

[2:57]
Honestly claiming might just get us lynched though

[2:57]
Because we haven't looked to ally with scum suspects

[2:57]
If you can explain that when she inevitably questions it

[2:57]
The claim is fine

[2:58]
I also feel we need to comment in this pt about scum losing both strongmen

[2:58]
And how we should strive to avoid lowering stress through any means but scum lynches

[2:58]
Since it's unlikely they have any means to bypass the bp of the what, 5 slots that are protected now.

drixx [2:59 PM]
well obviously we wanted to sort Titus; that's always a priority for us

[2:59]
I can leave it ou

[2:59]
out*

cerberus_v6.66 [2:59 PM]
D2 is the problem

[2:59]
The yume thing

[3:00]
Also, of we can avoid mentioning that whole stress dropping thing

[3:00]
It would be good

drixx [3:00 PM]
stress dropping thing?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:01 PM]
I also feel we need to comment in this pt about scum losing both strongmen

[3:01]
And how we should strive to avoid lowering stress through any means but scum lynches

[3:01]
Since it's unlikely they have any means to bypass the bp of the what, 5 slots that are protected now.

[3:03]
Something town us would definitely mention

[3:03]
But it's really bad for scum is

[3:04]
I'm actually not sure it possible for us to win at this point

[3:04]
Since we lose 4 votes basically

[3:04]
*lost*

drixx [3:06 PM]
by being so thoroughly pro-town and ruthlessly sacrificing our allies when the time comes

[3:07]
like stress is -1 right now. If we were to sacrifice someone that would let us do the cluster

cerberus_v6.66 [3:08 PM]
They would need to die TODAY

[3:08]
And flip today

drixx [3:08 PM]
which could let us pick kills

cerberus_v6.66 [3:08 PM]
Which won't happen

drixx [3:08 PM]
WE hammer today

cerberus_v6.66 [3:08 PM]
us using the remote detonator fucked us

drixx [3:08 PM]
so they flip immediately

cerberus_v6.66 [3:08 PM]
So?

drixx [3:08 PM]
no effect can prevent their death

cerberus_v6.66 [3:08 PM]
It's an exposition event

drixx [3:08 PM]
ergo no event will conceal their flip

cerberus_v6.66 [3:08 PM]
Ergo it can't be used after the hammee

[3:09]
You can ask varsoon

drixx [3:10 PM]
Yeah I was looking at Message received

[3:10]
climax event. triggered during climax

cerberus_v6.66 [3:10 PM]
Mym

drixx [3:12 PM]
search for jasper lowers stress

[3:12]
but it's not usable yet

cerberus_v6.66 [3:12 PM]
We're fucked

[3:12]
Seriously

[3:12]
Remote detonate fucked us

[3:12]
Enabled the skybird kill

drixx [3:13 PM]
okay I'm going to go away now

cerberus_v6.66 [3:13 PM]
Why?

[3:14]
It did. It put things out of reach. :/

[3:14]
Though skybird kill+detonate means net 0 stress change.

[3:14]
So I suppose it didn't actually deny us the cluster

cerberus_v6.66 [3:27 PM]

[3:27]
You clearly feel like I'm blaming you for our current situation, which I'm not

drixx [3:28 PM]
I'm the one who pushed for it

cerberus_v6.66 [3:46 PM]
I kept coming up with reasons to do it?

drixx [4:04 PM]
the answer to our RB claim and our choice to ally Yume is that Titus was the person we most wanted to be able to use it against if she turned out to be scum.

cerberus_v6.66 [4:07 PM]
Okay. That doesn't answer the yume thing

[4:07]
P

drixx [4:09 PM]
we like yume and wanted to talk to her doesn't suffice?

[4:09]
We knew that she had to be either Steven or some unimpeachable character because Mastin didn't have mod confirmation but still vouched for Yume

[4:09]
that made her someone we could trust to get info to Mastin

cerberus_v6.66 [4:11 PM]
Fair enough

drixx [4:24 PM]
what the hell is Titus going on about with Farside?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:24 PM]
Did you read her last post?

[4:24]
Explaining it?

[4:24]
Without actually explaining it

drixx [4:24 PM]
it seemed like gibberish to me

cerberus_v6.66 [4:24 PM]
There's no reasoning I can understand there

[4:25]
Why would town claim it?

[4:25]
Especially when people were talking shit on the usage

[4:26]
And why would scum bother using it?

[4:26]
Especially in that way?

[4:26]
Unless there's a same phase restriction on it

[4:26]
No reason to use it then.

cerberus_v6.66 [4:35 PM]
Omg dude

[4:35]
I just realized dgb was a roleblocker

[4:35]
O.o

drixx [4:35 PM]
which will make us having an RB ability less suspicious

cerberus_v6.66 [4:35 PM]
Mhm

drixx [4:35 PM]
I'm writing the claim now

cerberus_v6.66 [4:36 PM]
I was looking st her ckaim, thinking er could mention something about how our ability doesn't require targeting

[4:36]
So it could have worked on dgb

[4:36]
But it wouldn't have because we woulda been rbd by her

[4:36]
But if we had been empowered somehow, we coulda blocked her once at least

drixx [4:37 PM]
our block happens AFTER we're allied tho

[4:38]
so DGB wouldn't roleblock us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:39 PM]
Mmm

[4:40]
Untrue

[4:40]
We're still allied at nifht

[4:40]
We just can't talk

cerberus_v6.66 [4:47 PM]
Lol

[4:47]
Why did you lie about our claim?

[4:47]
We don't have ro keep blocking the target...

drixx [4:48 PM]
yes we do

cerberus_v6.66 [4:48 PM]
No, we dont

drixx [4:48 PM]
if we stop, we can't block them again

cerberus_v6.66 [4:48 PM]
Yes

drixx [4:48 PM]
read our role pm bro

cerberus_v6.66 [4:48 PM]
But you made it sound like we HAVE to block them

[4:48]
When we can stop anytime

drixx [4:49 PM]
I said "we can later (as a climax action) CHOOSE to roleblock..."

[4:49]
it's a choice

cerberus_v6.66 [4:49 PM]
You sorta fucked up what we do

[4:49]
Lol

drixx [4:49 PM]
you can totally correct me

[4:49]
that sells it even more

[4:50]
I'm the one who has been trying to plan how to make our abilities into more than they are

cerberus_v6.66 [4:50 PM]
When they first ally with them, we can immediately roleblock them without targeting them

drixx [4:50 PM]
you're the one who asks all the questions and fully understands things

cerberus_v6.66 [4:50 PM]
Fair enough

drixx [4:50 PM]
no we can't

[4:50]
they have to choose to ally elsewhere

[4:50]
that's why I pointed out we can't force it on someone ... if they submit us as ally but we choose to ally elsewhere, it doesn't work

[4:52]
motherfuck

[4:52]
good thing we decided to claim this

[4:53]
I think on Night 1 we blocked Titus

[4:53]
and historical fiction is all of episode 1

[4:53]
so it will show up in our actions if we're honest

cerberus_v6.66 [4:54 PM]
We didn't block titus

[4:55]
Specifically because we didn't want a connection to show up tying us to the roleblock

[4:55]
Which we wanted to reserve for yume for the rest of the game

drixx [4:56 PM]
nice

cerberus_v6.66 [4:57 PM]
Yep

[4:57]
Of course, now we can't get a double roleblock started

[4:57]

[4:57]
It would only be double for one night

[4:57]
But whatever.

drixx [4:57 PM]
it's a good gambit though

[4:58]
titus will see why it could function as a weak cop

cerberus_v6.66 [5:02 PM]
You shouldn't have given your explanation in your claim

[5:02]
Because she's asking that question even though you already answered it.

drixx [5:11 PM]
holy shit Titus has poor reading comprehension

cerberus_v6.66 [5:12 PM]
Lol

drixx [5:32 PM]
Titus is either way more sneaky than she's ever displayed before, or she legit believes we're town

[5:32]
she was leaking too much stuff by accident during day 3 for this conversation in the alliance chat to be contrived

[5:33]
going to be AFK for a little bit

cerberus_v6.66 [5:40 PM]
Leak?

[5:40]
What did she leak, besides the kraska clear?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:32 PM]
Titus stole our fucking power

cerberus_v6.66 [6:43 PM]
It may have been shiro

[6:43]
Either way, fuck this game.

[6:43]
I JUST thought of a gambit we could do

[6:43]
Allying farside

[6:43]
And telling her were scum and offering to feed her points to win

[6:43]
To give ourselves a free kil

drixx [6:52 PM]
we have no reason to ally farside now though

[6:52]
except perhaps to further the gambit I'm now running

[6:52]
fuck it

[6:52]
going to have fun with this

cerberus_v6.66 [6:54 PM]
Lol

[6:54]
We also have no way to target her

[6:54]
So we have nothing to offer her anyways

[6:55]
Every targeted power our team had is gone

[6:55]
We have two VTs, one of whom can't submit the kill

[6:55]
And a self watcher.

[6:55]
...

cerberus_v6.66 [7:03 PM]
I'm very pissed right now

[7:03]
Nothing she says makes sense

[7:03]
That was not a pro town move to make, unless she thought we were scum

[7:04]
Vanillaizing and fucking creating a rift with someone else on the "off chance" that they're scum is bullshit. Seriously just her being selfish

cerberus_v6.66 [7:15 PM]
You have fun talking to her

[7:16]
I'm going to disagree with her and oppose her foe the rest of the game

[7:16]
And I'm going to tell the game she vanilla iced us

[7:16]
*vanillaized* is and made me stop giving a fuck

cerberus_v6.66 [7:25 PM]
We're at 0% lynch chance btw

[7:25]
Only upside

[7:25]
I mean, we weren't going to get to use our power again to our benefit

[7:25]
So it doesn't really matter

[7:25]
But it's just the principle

drixx [7:36 PM]
holy fuck she fails at simple maths

cerberus_v6.66 [7:37 PM]
I actually never bothered working through her formula. :l

[7:37]
The pairing is all I cared about.

----- October 15th -----
drixx [2:24 PM]
missing anything since 09:49am my time this morning until now

[2:29]
So Titus expects this event was triggered to target and get rid of someone ... and she thinks it would be us over her (IC) or Mastin?

[2:29]
and we're meant to take that seriously?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:30 PM]
Well her and maatin aren't reasonable targets

[2:30]
Because it requires that they convince their allies to vote with them

cerberus_v6.66 [5:45 PM]
Are we going to vote creature?

[5:45]
Or someone else?

drixx [5:47 PM]
I see no reason not to vote Creature

cerberus_v6.66 [5:47 PM]
Only reason is if we think someone else who isn't on our team is going to receive another aliances votes

[5:48]
Titus is wrong, no way thus was triggered by a faction

[5:48]
*this*

[5:48]
So it will just be little groups of 3

[5:48]
We could look at the proposed groups and their reads and see if th e es a likely consensus for each

[5:48]
And throw our weight behind one to push it above the rest

drixx [5:49 PM]
My concern is that it's a gem event and the gems are going to vote us, honestly

cerberus_v6.66 [5:49 PM]
It's not

[5:50]
Thst was my concern at first, except for the reason I gave above

[5:50]
It's TOO controllable if used by a faction

[5:50]
It was certainly used by a town slot

[5:51]
And so it may be organized with at most one additional slot other than their allies

[5:51]
In theory, thst does still still mean whoever they chose should be the winner

drixx [5:52 PM]
"winner" lol

cerberus_v6.66 [5:52 PM]
^^

[5:52]
But yeah, it's 100% lynch control at no more than 3 stress

[5:53]
With a high priority

[5:53]
Because at least one other event didn't happen (if the flavor implications mean anything), likely a gem event.

[5:53]
So yeah, no way it's factional

[5:54]
I'm pretty sure it is just a gladiate effect

[5:54]
Perhaps only one target

[5:54]
X or no lynch

[5:55]
With some additional effect depending on alignment of the person lynched/if its a no lynch. Anywayz

[5:55]
Creature it is

[5:55]
I'm too lazy to go figure out the likely consensus for some other group

drixx [5:57 PM]
Shiro GTFO'd the alliance chat

[5:59]
also there's no way to figure out the consensus of some other group

[5:59]
too many people have been allowed to lurk

cerberus_v6.66 [6:00 PM]
Eh

[6:00]
I could probably do it

[6:01]
Mook at rhe snarky and farside wagons, iso each group for reads etc

[6:01]
But it's a bitch

[6:01]
Absolutely not worth it.

----- October 16th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [10:30 AM]
What I just said to Titus should make us 100% town, never lynched unless it comes down to a 3 man lylo versus two conftown.

cerberus_v6.66 [8:14 PM]
So, guilty on TWIE.

[8:14]
Mastin did not pick thr bp

[8:15]
If the game is going to come down to just us, we need to kill 6 specific slots to have a chance

[8:15]
Kraska, mastin, titus, random, xkfyu, and moi.

[8:16]
17 alive. 3 scum

[8:17]
16 alive 2 scum after today

[8:17]
13 alive, 2 scum, and five necessary kills

[8:18]
We need to kill one of our targets every night until lylo

drixx [8:18 PM]
well we know what we have to do then

cerberus_v6.66 [8:19 PM]
Who do we want in lylo with us?

drixx [8:20 PM]
that will be something we'll probably feel differently about every single day

[8:20]
like ... this is almost exactly the situation I was in with SMITE when the last two members of my team just gave up

[8:20]
and it is really kind of mentally stressing

cerberus_v6.66 [8:20 PM]
Yes

drixx [8:21 PM]
basically we need to keep people around who suspect other people

cerberus_v6.66 [8:21 PM]
I have no desire to play this out.

drixx [8:21 PM]
but that will change every day phase

[8:21]
so at this point it's all reaction

cerberus_v6.66 [8:21 PM]
We might be able to leave kraska alove

[8:21]
*alive *

[8:22]
Because he has a cop clear on him from a gem

[8:22]
And so we can assume titus and mastin know about it

[8:22]
But nobody else will, except shiro

[8:22]
Maybe.

[8:22]
Ugh.

[8:23]
We need to hope the cluster picks off at least one or two of them

[8:23]
Also, Varsoon realized that return to earth is shit

drixx [8:23 PM]
that will help A LOT

cerberus_v6.66 [8:23 PM]
And makes no mechanical sense

[8:23]
And has no idea what he intended with it

[8:24]
Othet than thinking he let flavor get too far ahead of mechanics there.

[8:24]
That doesn't help us of coirse

[8:24]
But it is what it is.

[8:24]
Ideally twie can weasel out of the lynch today

[8:24]
And we can set him.up to be lynched tomorrow using return to earth

[8:24]
But I feel that's unlikely.

[8:26]
I still don't understand how titus could think we would EVER try to kill her in a game we were in unless we absolutely had to.

[8:26]
So dumb

[8:27]
Her entire suspicion of us comes from the missing mill N1 and her belief that only we would shoot at her

[8:27]
When we would never fucking shoot at her

[8:28]
We need to use keeping it together asap

[8:28]
To deny her the alliance and remove her

[8:28]
So she can't ally with us and prevent us from killing.

[8:29]
(I mean, technically she couldn't stop us from killing, but she knows fhe mechanics of it now and knows that if we end up without allying someone, we're probably guilty)

[8:29]
We could actually potentially leave one conftown alive

[8:29]
But I believe both mastin and Titus would prefer to lose mislynching us

[8:30]
Than risk having us beat them.

drixx [8:30 PM]
agreed

[8:30]
ego

cerberus_v6.66 [8:30 PM]
*nods*

[8:30]
Whole game has been misplayed by us so far

[8:31]
Fundamental strategy ruined by skybirds death

[8:31]
So all our early kills were on sub optimal targets.

[8:31]
:/

[8:31]
I mean, not bad choices at the moment

[8:31]
But they've left us poorly positioned for a low player count game

drixx [8:40 PM]
facing a gigantic masonry that town assumes is town has left us few good choices all game

cerberus_v6.66 [8:49 PM]
I suppose

[8:51]
You know what's bullshit?

[8:51]
SC STILL has more posts in the game than anyone else on our team.

drixx [8:52 PM]
that's just ... I don't even know what to say

[8:52]
we should win this in spite of a totally uninvolved team

cerberus_v6.66 [8:53 PM]
It's really not even worth it to me

[8:53]
I spent the last 48 hours talking to fucking titus in the pt

[8:53]
I'm really over it now.

drixx [9:00 PM]
It takes an absurd effort to win a hard game as scum

[9:00]
like really... scum win like 60% of games on the site or something, but most of them are pushover wins

[9:00]
when it's a struggle, the effort required is over the top

cerberus_v6.66 [9:03 PM]
It's dumb.

[9:04]
Actualy

[9:04]
We're fucked man

[9:04]
Titus is going to roleblock is

[9:04]
*us* tonigjt

[9:04]
And we won't be able to make a kill

[9:05]
Because fucking shadowstep can't kill

drixx [9:06 PM]
You may not commit the factional kill unless you are the last surviving member of your team or if stress is at -2 or lower.

[9:07]
might be able to

cerberus_v6.66 [9:09 PM]
Except kraska plans to raise stress by 4.

drixx [9:16 PM]
TWIE dying would lower it back to -2

[9:16]
umm... Search for Jasper lowers by 2

cerberus_v6.66 [9:16 PM]
Delayed

[9:16]
Delayed

[9:16]
Delayed

[9:16]
None of these things do it immediately

drixx [9:16 PM]
well if that happens then we won't have to worry about it will we?

[9:17]
I mean

[9:17]
I haven't posted today

cerberus_v6.66 [9:17 PM]
Good for you.

drixx [9:17 PM]
I could do what I said I would and tell the thread that Titus may have had her FAKE claim confirmed with her event

[9:17]
and that she stole our role

[9:17]
and go all conspiracy theory crazy

cerberus_v6.66 [9:18 PM]
You can if you want to

[9:18]
I don't care.

drixx [9:18 PM]
also we could just submit Titus as our alliance choice for tomorrow

[9:18]
then we won't have CHOSEN to ally elsewhere

[9:18]
and the roleblock can't touch us

[9:18]
there's that too

cerberus_v6.66 [9:18 PM]
Yes, but us not having an alliance will create a 1v1

[9:18]
Between us and whoever our proposed partner was

[9:18]
Unless that proposed partner was ss

drixx [9:18 PM]
Other alliances have failed in the past with both sides having no idea why

cerberus_v6.66 [9:18 PM]
We're fucked

drixx [9:19 PM]
we're in a bad position

cerberus_v6.66 [9:19 PM]
Untrue, only case of the was the mastin/mcmenno thing

[9:19]
Which was a loe

[9:19]
*lie*

drixx [9:19 PM]
There was a time in SMITE where the game wanted to know the order that things happened

cerberus_v6.66 [9:19 PM]
If you've read the thread today

drixx [9:19 PM]
one order made it really likely I was really a 3rd party who needed to hammer scum

[9:19]
the other made it likely it was a fake claim

cerberus_v6.66 [9:19 PM]
Stop referencing smite

[9:19]
It's annoying

[9:19]
Not inspiring.

drixx [9:20 PM]
okay well if you want to give up then feel free to replace out and leave me alone

cerberus_v6.66 [9:20 PM]
I'm not going to do thwt

[9:20]
I expect we'll be lynched in the next day phase

[9:20]
Silly to replace out before then.

[9:21]
Well see what happens to ight

[9:21]
*tonight*

[9:21]
If kraska is dumb

drixx [9:21 PM]
there's ways to avoid it is all I'm saying

cerberus_v6.66 [9:21 PM]
Well be able to have ss submit th kill

[9:21]
*the kill*

drixx [9:21 PM]
and the point of me referencing smite is because sometimes you can win by losing

cerberus_v6.66 [9:21 PM]
But it requires us having ss or ourselves quickly hammer twie

[9:21]
After he reaches l-1

[9:22]
So kraska has no chance to trigger his power

[9:22]
Between the moment twie is confirmed as scu

[9:22]
And the moment the night starts

[9:22]
Which locks in the stress level that matters for abilities

[9:24]
I've bitched to varsoon a lot about this game.

[9:25]
It's bullshit that town has yet another conftown

[9:25]
Possible slot

[9:25]
That we enable by having low stress happen

[9:25]
It's supposed to be bad for town if stress is at -4

[9:26]
But all it really does in practice is enable them to put farside up to l-1 amd conftown her if she still had her lynchprolf

[9:26]
*lynchproof*

[9:26]
While never enabling us to have enhanced kills

[9:26]
Because its capped at -4

[9:27]
And with delayed flips, if we used a kill the night before, well always go into night at -3 at worst.

drixx [9:31 PM]
yeah ... the delayed flips makes it so the stress will never actually benefit town

[9:31]
and the traitor who can never join their team but makes kills instead of them

[9:31]
like ... what the fuck?

[9:31]
I could complain for days man

[9:31]
it just makes me want to win

[9:31]
I want Titus to be the one who casts the vote on someone else with us

[9:32]
I want her to be SURE that we're winning a long hard game

[9:32]
only it's going to be US winning

[9:32]
Not because I dislike Titus; just the opposite in fact

[9:32]
It will be a win that is meaningful

cerberus_v6.66 [9:33 PM]
If won't happen

[9:33]
Her voting with us in lylo, that is.

drixx [9:33 PM]
well, actually MYLO is the scenario I'm thinking of

cerberus_v6.66 [9:33 PM]
I have practically thrown the fucking game

drixx [9:33 PM]
4th person votes someone, and we don't vote

cerberus_v6.66 [9:33 PM]
I've given her clear after clear

drixx [9:33 PM]
this convinces Titus we're town

[9:34]
she votes, we hammer for the win

cerberus_v6.66 [9:34 PM]
And she still fucking suspects us because she doesn't understand us

[9:34]
She's never going to be convinced were town

[9:34]
Never.

drixx [9:35 PM]
sure she will

[9:35]
might require us to 1v1 shadow and literally carry the game for like 4 days

[9:35]
but there's this gem faction who hides lots of stuff

cerberus_v6.66 [9:35 PM]
I fucking told her how to disprove my push I've been making.

drixx [9:35 PM]
they make a wonderful paranoia foil

cerberus_v6.66 [9:36 PM]
On farside and make her conftown

[9:36]
And told her that xkfyu can't be scum

[9:36]
And claimed some scummy shit role honestly

[9:36]
And cased SC and was the tipping point on his wagon

[9:37]
And called dgb scum for fucking ever.

[9:37]
And you kept calling out how we can't be sure of skybird

[9:37]
...

[9:37]
We can't possibly be more fucking distanced from our team

[9:37]
And she still suspects us.

drixx [9:38 PM]
because she respects the fuck out of us

[9:38]
there might not be any other people on the whole site she would still suspect in identical situation

cerberus_v6.66 [9:39 PM]
That's not comforting

[9:39]
It doesn't make things magically better.

drixx [9:39 PM]
No. It doesn't.

cerberus_v6.66 [9:42 PM]
Anyways, I don't want to deal with the situation in the game right now.

[9:42]
You can say whatever you want in all the pts

[9:42]
Etc.

[9:42]
I probably won't have anything to say until tomorrow night maybe

drixx [9:43 PM]
I need to catch up

[9:44]
internet was out

cerberus_v6.66 [9:44 PM]
Whatever path you think we should take for this whole scenario will work.

drixx [9:44 PM]
I went and laid down and my legs kicked my chair away from me so I was stuck all day till Mel got home

cerberus_v6.66 [9:44 PM]
You should learn to use your phone to read the game. That's what I do

[9:44]
Oh.

drixx [9:44 PM]
it was sitting on my chair

[9:44]
I didn't even think to grab the PS4 controller and TV remote and put them on the bed

[9:44]
so I literally had nothing to do

[9:44]
napped for a bit and then just sat and thought

cerberus_v6.66 [9:44 PM]
Understood

cerberus_v6.66 [10:30 PM]
We're fucked by the clarification kraska just received.

[10:30]
Well, maybe not

[10:31]
It depends on how the kills from the cluster are displayed

----- October 17th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [8:04 PM]
Maatin refuses to believe her own guikty

[8:04]
Of our whole team votes snarky, he's currently two votes from lynch

drixx [8:04 PM]
I was reading on my phone between tests

cerberus_v6.66 [8:04 PM]
If he's not a gem.

[8:04]
Got it

drixx [8:04 PM]
the whole situation is absurdly amusing

cerberus_v6.66 [8:04 PM]
I don't know if I've fucked up or not. :/

drixx [8:04 PM]
if we play our cards right today/tonight, we can be "conftown"

cerberus_v6.66 [8:05 PM]
I sorts hedged my bets on supporting the snarky lynch

drixx [8:05 PM]
then just gotta kill off Mastin and Titus along the way and since we'll be "conftown", we can choose who we want to endgame with

cerberus_v6.66 [8:05 PM]
I had to say something supportive or else mastin will compromise and lynch twie

drixx [8:05 PM]
I'm going to spend a little time with Mel and then I can do whatever you like.

cerberus_v6.66 [8:06 PM]
How are we conftown tonight?

[8:06]
I'm going to take a nap man

[8:06]
I have a massive headache.

[8:08]
I'm gonna nap and hopefully feel better, if I wake up before tomorrow morning I'll ping you

[8:08]
And maybe we can watch bebop if you're still up and feeling up to it

[8:09]
Mastins last post is priceless.

[8:09]
Anyways. I'll talk to you later. ^^ glad you got the problem identified, if not fully resolved

drixx [8:11 PM]
I have no idea what it will cost you to wahlk into a place and get something so better extra than not enough

[8:11]
but I'll talk to you if you wake up

[8:11]
I won't be sleeping until tomorrow night

cerberus_v6.66 [8:12 PM]
Understood. Quick notr

[8:12]
We CAN NOT hammer town today

drixx [8:12 PM]
they told me just to make peace with that. I'll be in the washroom like 30 times in the 12 hours after I drink this shit

cerberus_v6.66 [8:12 PM]
We DO hammer scum.

[8:12]
And hope that we force a stress drop to -4 to counteract the NC flip

[8:13]
Then we can just fucking kill titus tonight, through the roleblocl.

[8:13]
And well be spared having to use our alliance stopping event to make her vulnerable

----- October 18th -----
drixx [4:02 PM]
..

cerberus_v6.66 [4:02 PM]
So, somehow...

[4:02]
Everything worked out in our favor

drixx [4:04 PM]
I see

cerberus_v6.66 [4:04 PM]
We have -4 stress for night actions, got a mislynch which makes farside look like scum, and aloances weren't set up in advance so if we use return to earth, town will have at most 2/3 of the votes available that they should have

drixx [4:04 PM]
so Titus is like the obvious choice to kill right?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:04 PM]
Yes

[4:04]
IC BP roleblocker.

[4:04]
Pretty straightforward

drixx [4:05 PM]
and it will make people think scum liked the way Titus was thinking

[4:05]
which will put weight behind Mastin's reads

cerberus_v6.66 [4:05 PM]
Well

drixx [4:05 PM]
and somehow the gambit worked of telling her we would be a false guilty...

cerberus_v6.66 [4:05 PM]
Both tbeir reads sets are bad for us

[4:05]
well

drixx [4:05 PM]
this is doable ... depends on who dies from the cluster

cerberus_v6.66 [4:05 PM]
Titus' are actually better for us

[4:05]
Than mastins

drixx [4:05 PM]
won't be Titus because she was using abilities

[4:05]
Titus has to go though

cerberus_v6.66 [4:05 PM]
Because mastin has titus

[4:05]
I mean

[4:06]
Has ss

[4:06]
At the top of her kynch list

[4:06]
While titus has farside and magna there

[4:06]
But wants twie first

drixx [4:06 PM]
but Farside just did something stupidly anti-town

[4:06]
and Titus dying will point to her

cerberus_v6.66 [4:06 PM]
Yeah

drixx [4:06 PM]
hopefully cluster kills 2

cerberus_v6.66 [4:06 PM]
You know how antitown it was?

[4:07]
SHE ONLY USED ENOUGH VOTES TO LYNCH IF SNARKY WAS TOWN

drixx [4:07 PM]
yeah

[4:07]
I know

[4:07]
lol

cerberus_v6.66 [4:07 PM]
So silly

[4:08]
But yeah

drixx [4:09 PM]
we have to activate the cluster I think?

[4:09]
or did we already?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:09 PM]
Would you mind looking at the suggested alliance pairings for the finale and what people said and figuring out who can be with who?

[4:09]
I want to know if a lynch sill even be possible tomorrow

[4:09]
I think it might not be

drixx [4:10 PM]
You actually figured out a good use for that event LOL

cerberus_v6.66 [4:10 PM]
There will be 13 alive tomorrow, 7 to oynch

[4:10]
3 scum, one of whom won't have an alliance guaranteed

[4:10]
One town, farside, who can't vote

[4:10]
So that's 9 town votes

[4:11]
If the two who die are ones who could have voted/enabled others votes...

[4:11]
Then town will require 100% of votes to lynch anyone

drixx [4:12 PM]
Just got caught up (had a super long night; the reason is unpleasant and you really don't want to know). Unless I'm mistaken, Farside used just enough votes to kill Snarky only if he was town. Like ... was that an "I give up" play or what the hell?

[4:12]
that good to post in our PT

[4:13]
I'm going to ask if it will be made permanent also

cerberus_v6.66 [4:13 PM]
Yeah

[4:13]
Go ahead

drixx [4:15 PM]
Just so you both know: when we were allied with Yume, I claimed to her, and the phrasing of the reward for beach-a-palooza caught my attention, so I asked Varsoon if our season finale hammer counted for that purpose. He said it did. So I told Yume that no matter what she HAD to tell Mastin that the investigate would show a guilty on us, and tell her precisely why, so Mastin could ask Varsoon

[4:15]
general questions and confirm that an ability like ours would indeed come up as a false positive. That's why she went from scumreading us to clearing us, I think. That might also be why she was stubborn about TWIE?

[4:16]
Is it safe to add that?

[4:16]
the last bit is "That might also be why she was stubborn about TWIE?" if it didn't all paste in

cerberus_v6.66 [4:17 PM]
Well, I was stubborn about twie too.

drixx [4:18 PM]
I'll take that part off

[4:18]
it's really just a gambit basically giving Shiro the reason why Mastin is townreading us

[4:18]
with the idea that eventually Titus and Mastin will be dead but Shiro won't and Shiro would be the ally we take into mylo

[4:19]
but it's a risk we don't need to take

cerberus_v6.66 [4:19 PM]
Shiro already town reads us

[4:19]
I don't think he needs to know why mastin is townreading us to continue to do so.

[4:21]
I don't know if it hurts us though

[4:22]
The concern with anything we say tonight is if titus STARTS to suspect us, and we end up killing her, leaving shiro alive

drixx [4:23 PM]
well the obvious discussion tonight is "Would farside be vindictive enough to make that play and make you vulnerable to a kill that can't be stopped, if she's really town?"

cerberus_v6.66 [4:23 PM]
Yeah

drixx [4:23 PM]
because that's the crux of the question and it should be assumed by any rational agent that Titus dies tonight

[4:23]
so we want Titus to talk about reads and how to proceed becuase we're going to lose her viewpoint

cerberus_v6.66 [4:24 PM]
Fair enough

drixx [4:24 PM]
are we SURE that since the night BEGAN at -4, the gems can't do a flip and alter it during the night to stop the unblockable?

[4:24]
like ... let's say they set a timer to flip NC 1 hour before day start

[4:24]
and we have the kill in on Titus but it fails because they adjusted stress to -3

cerberus_v6.66 [4:25 PM]
Yep, I'm sure

[4:25]
Sec

[4:26]
Varsoon - Today 10:24 AM
> And even if NC did flip post-lynch, the stress change wouldn't keep you from having your -4 stress for the purposes of all night action submission.

drixx [4:26 PM]
That's my worry, and it would be a brilliant play by the gems

[4:26]
nice

cerberus_v6.66 [4:27 PM]
If two gems die to the cluster it would be the best thing ever.

[4:28]
We do have a slight problem though

[4:28]
Grapes was virtually cleared, though that clear goes away when twie flips

[4:28]
Fuzzy was also close to cleared

[4:29]
So those two are going to be very hard to get lynched

drixx [4:32 PM]
we need to start planning who we can use as a foil to win against and who will side with us

[4:32]
the rest will be night kills

[4:32]
post in progress:

[4:32]
Okay so my mind has caught up with everything. A few thoughts, and please please be active during this night Titus.

[4:32]
1.) I don't see any way that the day starts and Titus is alive. Farside acted in such a way that the stress mechanics give scum an unblockable kill. That leads me to ask:

[4:32]
1a.) Would Farside, on the now minuscule chance that she isn't scum, make that move just to "win" and spite you Titus? Think about this. It appears to me like she saw the handwriting on the wall and traded herself to get you dead, but what if she really does flip town/3P?

[4:32]
I think the best thing we can do with the time we have tonight is go over things from your viewpoint, because unless something dramatically changes, we're going to lose it at the end of the night.

[4:32]
That also makes me wonder why on earth Kraska didn't set a trigger for the stress adding event. Like ... there was zero reason not to set a trigger for it just in case, since Varsoon allows triggers.

cerberus_v6.66 [4:33 PM]
Well, a multi vote would have bypassed any trigger

[4:33]
Which is what I think happened with both the NC flip flop a d kraskas power

[4:33]
There was a trigger for like l-2

[4:33]
And she jumped straight over it to lynch

[4:33]
And yeah, that's a reasonable post

[4:36]
Also remember, kraska is conftown

drixx [4:37 PM]
still I'm confused by the situation

[4:37]
it was a claimed finale only event

cerberus_v6.66 [4:37 PM]
Untrue

[4:37]
She said she could only move stress by that much on the finale

drixx [4:37 PM]
I see

[4:37]
so less other times

cerberus_v6.66 [4:37 PM]
So it's probably a 2 point swing at other times

[4:40]
So 13 tomorrow

[4:40]
Assuming cluster and kill success

[4:41]
No lynch tomorrow

[4:41]
12 thr next day, and twie lynch

[4:41]
Nk gem

[4:41]
10 alive, 2 scum

[4:41]
Farside is implicated bg twie flip

[4:42]
And lynched, then gem kill

[4:42]
8 alive, 2 scum, 1-2 gems, 3 conditional conftown.

[4:43]
Mastin, grapes, fuzzy

[4:43]
Man

[4:43]
:/

[4:43]
Pretty fucking hard dude

[4:44]
Need the two kills from the cluster to land on people who are conftown

drixx [4:47 PM]
I think the reveal that grapes was targeted for kill night one helps us btw

[4:48]
we nearly got lightspeed lynched on day 2

[4:48]
can easily spin that kill as a way for scum to get us out of the game super early

cerberus_v6.66 [4:49 PM]
Things that create more conftown totally don't help us man.

drixx [4:50 PM]
things that put us in the conftown pile help though

cerberus_v6.66 [4:50 PM]
All the unlynchables running around is our main problem.

[4:51]
If we get kynched, it will be a begrudgingly "well, there's nobody else it COULD be" sort of lynch

[4:51]
If we can swing one gem lynch that would be amazing

[4:51]
And help out a lot

drixx [4:52 PM]
MoI has been crazy defensive when we were just asking reasonable questions about why the gems were refusing to be open

cerberus_v6.66 [4:52 PM]
Kraska is probably lapis actually

[4:52]
That's probably what the "clear" the gems got was

[4:52]
Moving stress either way is a good 3p survivor type ability

[4:53]
That's probably what the "clear" the gems have on her is.

[4:53]
You should probably ask titus what the gems win condition was

drixx [4:54 PM]
do you think she was told something different than us?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:55 PM]
What we were told was incomplete

[4:55]
Vague scum removal statement, and that a human needs to be alive

drixx [4:56 PM]
do you still have the yume PT easily accessible?

[4:56]
because ... if she said "all threats to earth removed from game plus a human alive" then that's bullshit

[4:56]
because the Crystal Gems are their own faction

[4:56]
threats to EARTH

[4:56]
they aren't aligned with EARTH

cerberus_v6.66 [4:57 PM]
She gave no specifs

[4:57]
Specifics

[4:58]
She said they are town because they have to kill scum

[4:58]
And need a human alive

[5:00]
She said they need to keep a human alive in addition to what "you" (referring to us) said

cerberus_v6.66 [5:07 PM]
And I have no idea what she was referring to us having said

----- October 20th -----
drixx [1:07 PM]
There are some reasons I am wary of the gem faction, and I want your thoughts on them. I had some medical stuff or I'd have posted this sooner; apologies.

[1:07]
1.) If the Crystal Gems are just a 3rd party who are basically town but are all millers (KC's flip showed they investigate as scum I believe) and are in a masonry, then that would be wildly overpowered. That's a HUGE masonry, in practical terms.

[1:07]
2.) If the Crystal Gems are so town compatible and not their own mutually exclusive win condition, then why did you get told a different win condition than we did, and why has any questioning of them led to absurd levels of OMGUS and pushback?

[1:07]
2a.) Likewise, why have they acted in clearly anti-town fashion in many instances? The withholding of flips was especially egregious on day 4 with the stress mechanic, but it does make sense if you posit that the gems have a win condition that is less friendly than they've claimed.

[1:07]
2b.) Furthermore, it seems clear that the Gems had to have talked among themselves for awhile before deciding what to claim and how to proceed. I have to wonder if Yume ever would have even told Mastin had we not figured it out and posted to the main game thread. What reason would Yume have to hide the gems from a moderator confirmed town player, if the win condition is really identical to town

[1:07]
except a gem and/or human need to be alive?

[1:07]
3.) When KC finally flipped, quite a lot more was redacted than we were told was going to be. When pushed, they lied about it. The excuse was basically that the various gem fusion abilities got redacted because those gems were still alive, as far as I recall ... but that wasn't all that was redacted from KC's flip.

[1:07]
It just doesn't add up, and that gives me a really bad feeling.

cerberus_v6.66 [1:08 PM]
Kcz flip only shows she investigated as scum

[1:08]
Not all of them

[1:10]
Also not sure that pursuing that line sill get much from her nos

[1:10]
*now*

[1:10]
She's more concerned about the twie thing

[1:11]
Though you couod uss that suspicion to postulate different scum counts

[1:11]
That would be balanced in the face of another non town faction

drixx [6:50 PM]
what do you make of Titus suggesting her flip will implicate us?

[6:50]
a gambit to try and avoid being killed you think?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:53 PM]
Doesn't matter

[6:53]
There's no flip she can have that will implicate us

[6:53]
Imo

[6:54]
I think it's more likely she just thinks because she was pushing us yesterday at some points, that if she dies tonight people will suspect us

drixx [7:38 PM]
did you see her claim that she cannot be killed/blocked or have any negative action taken against her during a season finale?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:39 PM]
Yep

cerberus_v6.66 [8:17 PM]
Can you paraphrase what we were just told about the gems in our scum pt please?

[8:17]
Ideally before the day starts, in case the pt gets locked or we get killed?

cerberus_v6.66 [8:29 PM]
Thanks man

[8:30]
I didn't want to have to go sit on my floor to actually type it up, it's cold yo. :/

----- October 21st -----
drixx [9:08 AM]
[10:08] <cerberusv6.66> So the cluster sniped one gem, which is great for us.

[9:08]
[10:09] <cerberusv6.66> Two would have been better, but I'll take it, especially since the one it sniped was conftown AND a conditional PGO.

[9:08]
[11:05] <cerberusv6.66> Welcome back to the game..

[9:08]
[11:05] <Drixx> wrong channel ;p

[9:08]
[11:08] <cerberusv6.66> Fix it place thank you. <3

[9:08]
[11:08] <cerberusv6.66> *please*

[9:09]
like all of a sudden everyone's looking at Kraska like there are horns growing out of her head

cerberus_v6.66 [9:11 AM]
Lol yah

[9:11]
We're in a very strong spot right no

[9:11]
*now*

cerberus_v6.66 [12:16 PM]
I was really hoping to ally random and get him on our side with regards to MoI/get some legit answers from him.

[12:16]
:/

Cerberus v666 · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:04 pm

----- October 22nd -----
drixx [2:02 PM]
Getting tired of your manipulative bullshit. You keep trying to throw shade on us because you're caught and cornered like a rat and you know it.

[2:02]
We had a really good reason to ally differently today. We never needed to ally with Titus and Shiro again but would still be able to talk to them for the rest of the game. Since you killed Titus that's now just Shiro, but again ... we actually told the person we were trying to ally and it was right here in the thread.

[2:02]

[2:02]
And the rest of you... I already pointed out that the gems were essentially a very large masonry. Now look they've admitted to being exactly a masonry. Still believe the scum team is small and low powered like the flips we've seen or do you think MAYBE ... JUST MAYBE ... a high powered role like lynchproof, alliance destroyer, nearly unliminted multivoter might be scum? And oh look ... the player

[2:02]
with that role has taken literally the scummiest actions in the entire game! At this point, the game will be fucking over before people stop with absurd shit like "Scum wouldn't trade 1 for 4" or whatever the hell it is if Farside manages to get out of today.

[2:02]
It's not a fucking policy lynch. It's so obviously scum that it's like a gigantic phallus slapping the game in the face at this point.

[2:02]
~Drixx

cerberus_v6.66 [2:04 PM]
I approve

[2:04]
well wait

[2:04]
no

[2:04]
like

[2:05]
don't expose our chat with shiro

[2:05]
and I assume that's in respone to farsides post pointing out that we and shiro could have had a pt together but don't?

[2:06]
or alliance together, whatever

[2:06]
and yeah

[2:06]
no need to expose it. there's a thing saying shiro trid to make his pt with FB permanent on N1

[2:06]
it's perfectly reasonable that power was expended when he did so

drixx [2:07 PM]
farside allied with Kraska right?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:08 PM]
yes

[2:09]
which is why they're the only two who can vote

[2:09]
man

[2:09]
kraskas power upsets me

[2:09]
we have *two* effects that can modify the day phase

drixx [2:09 PM]
We had a really good reason to ally differently today and we actually told the person we were trying to ally and it was right here in the thread.

[2:09]
If you want to talk about alliances ... let's start with you agreeing to ally Titus so that you two could stop poisoning the thread (you were both doing it, and you are STILL doing it) and get yourselves in check, but somehow you mysteriously knew that you needed to ally elsewhere during the night.

[2:09]
@Kraska - Be honest please. When did Farside suggest that you two ally instead of her previous arrangement and whatever you would have done? Was it

AFTER

Varsoon posted the flip and the stress moved, but there was the note there saying that the stress change wouldn't affect anything submitted in the night? Basically what I'm asking is ... did Farside basically do an "OMG, we can kill Titus!"

[2:09]
and then ask you to ally? Because ... that's what it looks like from the outside, and you're literally helping her get away with it.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:09 PM]
and kraska can nullifyeither

drixx [2:09 PM]
I changed the section and removed outing that we can talk to shiro forever

cerberus_v6.66 [2:10 PM]
k

[2:10]
the response to that is going to be that farside realized titus would die

[2:10]
as anyone would have

[2:11]
and thought it was better to make sure an alliance happened

[2:11]
lol. we were THIS CLOSE to shutting down the entire game man

drixx [2:11 PM]
nah... she's already on the record earlier saying she had decided not to ally Titus

cerberus_v6.66 [2:11 PM]
oh you're right

drixx [2:11 PM]
if she says "I realized Titus was going to die and made sure I would have an alliance" I can just quote her earlier post

cerberus_v6.66 [2:11 PM]
so she's just going to refer to whatever post she made saying she changed her mind about titus

[2:12]
even though titus was clearly under the impression that she hadn't

[2:12]
so she deliberately deceived conftown

[2:12]
a conftown who had claimed to be BP only while in alliance

[2:12]
and placed her in a position where she wouldn't be allied the next night

[2:12]

[2:13]
and she made that decision BEFORE, if she were scum, she would have known she'd be able to kill Titus in the night

drixx [2:14 PM]
Yes well I'm hoping that she asked Kraska AFTER the stress change

[2:14]
I'm going to add a bit more in

cerberus_v6.66 [2:15 PM]
well I mean, it doesn't matter. she is on the record as sayign she had DECIDED to not ally titus BEFORE the stress change

[2:15]
but she didn't tell titus that

[2:15]
which is just as, if not more, damning.

drixx [2:19 PM]
@Farside - No interruptions please. We would like to see what Kraska will say about when this all went down, because we asked you earlier and you already lied about it. You claim that you decided before yesterday ended that you weren't going to ally Titus, AND TOLD HER SO, when you did no such thing. Even if we take your earlier statement as truth (and we obviously believe you seized upon the

[2:19]
realization that your team could kill her to set up a situation where you thought only you could make a lynch happen), you basically said "I deceived the only actual conftown in the game who I knew had claimed to be BP while in an alliance and placed her in a situation where she would have no alliance." - I mean ... I get that your goose is totally cooked when Kraska checks the time stamps and

[2:19]
confirms that you changed your mind about allying only AFTER you realized your team could kill Titus ... but what you said before wasn't exactly much less damning.

[2:19]
On a personal note: Happy Birthday. The game is the game, but there's nothing personal in it.

[2:19]
that last bit a bit too much you think?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:21 PM]
naw it's fine

[2:21]
before you post we need to look at her history

[2:22]
and confirm that she didn't tell titus they wern't going to ally anymore

[2:22]
titus didn't think tehy were

[2:22]
but if she told us, then... yeah

drixx [2:27 PM]
Farside never rejected the alliance setup with Titus

[2:27]
the closest to a rejection is post 8812

[2:27]
Titus in 8811 says "Correct. Any objections to me with Farside?"

[2:27]
and Farside responds: "Dear God why?"

[2:27]
day ends not much after that

[2:28]
in ISO terms

cerberus_v6.66 [2:31 PM]
then in 8845 she says okay and agrees to it

drixx [2:32 PM]
@Farside - No interruptions please. We would like to see what Kraska will say about when this all went down, because we asked you earlier and you already lied about it. You claim that you decided before yesterday ended that you weren't going to ally Titus, AND TOLD HER SO, when you did no such thing. Even if we take your earlier statement as truth, you basically said "I deceived the only actual

[2:32]
conftown in the game who I knew had claimed to be BP while in an alliance and placed her in a situation where she would have no alliance." - I mean ... I get that your goose is totally cooked when Kraska checks the time stamps and confirms that you changed your mind about allying only AFTER you realized your team could kill Titus ... but what you said before wasn't exactly much less damning. (P.S.

[2:32]
- Post #8845 you agreed to ally Titus, so yeah).

cerberus_v6.66 [2:32 PM]
after 8845 she makes it clear she has problems with titus

[2:32]
but she never says she's not going to ally with her.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:38 PM]
I'm not really sure what we shoudl be saying today

[2:38]
like,w e're in a good spot, but it can go shitty fast

[2:38]
and it depends on TWIE's claim adn actions

[2:38]
there are two good endings to today

[2:39]
1) farside gets bored of the delay and talks with Kraska and they work together to lynch TWIE before the event ends

[2:39]
and we get our double kill tonight

[2:39]
2)kraska ends the event, and we get farside lynched

drixx [2:39 PM]
It's not a fucking policy lynch. It's so obviously scum that it's like a gigantic phallus slapping the game in the face at this point. AND we now know that there was a group of individual 3P called "the leftovers" and one of them got to join with the gems after beach-a-palooza. It therefore makes sense that Farside could have done the whole vote for Not Chara thing, knowing that her vote would

[2:39]
count full, then use it to try and push the idea that she and Not Chara were both conftown (which she did!!!) and then she could have joined the scum team. It fits ... and frankly it fills in what looks like a gigantic power void between scum and town+gems (assuming the gems are essentially a town friendly masonry).

[2:39]
another addition

cerberus_v6.66 [2:40 PM]
lol

[2:40]
you can say that too

[2:40]
it's been suggested by A50 already

[2:40]
which, well, IK don't know if that's a good thing or not

[2:40]
A50 has crazy theories

[2:40]
lol

[2:41]
any suggestions on TWIE's kill claim for last night?

[2:41]
we need him in the thread very soon

drixx [2:42 PM]
he has to say he took a shot at farside and DID NOT get told she blocked him, so either she had protection or someone blocked him

[2:42]
and he can say he is pretty sure that ascetic doesn't stop kills, so he's not sure why she's alive

cerberus_v6.66 [2:44 PM]
alright

[2:44]
seems safest from counter claims

[2:44]
she did already claim that she blocked shiro

[2:44]
actually

[2:44]
and shiro did not target her

[2:45]
so the block did not happen as a result of her automatic roleblock thing

[2:45]
I'm pretty sure

[2:45]
I'm really not looking forward to wading through ISO's to find the stuff to save our teammates who should be finding this themselves.

drixx [2:46 PM]
that's why I said he should claim precisely in that way

cerberus_v6.66 [2:46 PM]
and yeah, us allying random makes the most sense from our perspective

drixx [2:46 PM]
we said we were going to do it right before thread lock

cerberus_v6.66 [2:46 PM]
if we're suspicious of MoI, it gets us a view into what he's been doing

drixx [2:46 PM]
it's on random, not us

[2:46]
post is up

[2:46]
I like it

cerberus_v6.66 [2:46 PM]
in private with the gems

[2:46]
yeha

drixx [2:47 PM]
it feels like a genuinely convinced town post

cerberus_v6.66 [2:47 PM]
(which is, btw, why I wanted to ally with him, kjust for not so pro-town reasons)

[2:47]
"

drixx [2:49 PM]
small gambit post made in shiro chat

cerberus_v6.66 [2:50 PM]
ya

drixx [2:52 PM]
Farside, Mastin, MOI dead and I'm not sure anyone left in the game will ever suspect us

[2:52]
we can feed them TWIE and SS as needed

[2:52]
and set up a foil for mylo

[2:52]
we're close

[2:52]
if we can manage to get farside lynched today and mastin killed tonight, I think we will win this

[2:53]
our foil should be a "scum among the gems" candidate

[2:53]
I think

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
well

[2:56]
no

[2:56]
I disagree

[2:57]
like, there are people(and we can't know who they are!) who will refuse to lynch a gem over us

[2:57]
random MIGHT be willing to sheep us

[2:57]
if we leave him as the last gem standing

[2:58]
depending on how well MoI has influenced him

[2:58]
his presence has been minimal in the thread, but what little has has said has been wildly in favor of us

drixx [2:59 PM]
well ... we do need to select our final mislynch soon

[2:59]
because we'll have to start setting them up soon

cerberus_v6.66 [3:01 PM]
yeah

[3:01]
I realized activating this event may have been a fatal error

[3:02]
if we assume that TWIE must be lynched before the next finale

[3:02]
then if we kept SS alive, LYLO would occur on D9

[3:02]
right when this ability could have been triggered

[3:02]
to give us an auto win if kraska was dead

[3:02]

[3:03]
I didn't do the math on it

drixx [3:03 PM]
not a fatal mistake ... just failed to see a potential auto-win scenario

cerberus_v6.66 [3:03 PM]
well, if we get to day 9

[3:03]
and SS is still alive with us and we're in lylo

[3:03]
and we end up losing

[3:03]
then that was probably the fatal mistake

[3:03]
but only if we would have got kraska mislynched before then of course

[3:03]
anyways

[3:04]
IF we keep TWIE alive

[3:04]
we win in 3 mislynches

[3:04]
two after today

[3:04]
right?

[3:04]
13 alive right now, 3 scum

[3:04]
sorry, 4 mislynches

[3:05]
if twie dies, I believe it's still 4?

[3:05]
12 alive, 2 scum going into the night, then 11 alive, 2 scum...3 mislynches to lylo

[3:05]
so yeah, 4 total

[3:06]
lol

[3:06]
duh

[3:06]
number of mislynches needed to win never changes.

[3:06]
so yeah

drixx [3:06 PM]
yeah ... mislynches are basically a town currency

cerberus_v6.66 [3:07 PM]
*nods*

[3:07]
so, 4 mislynches.

[3:07]
Farside

[3:07]
who else?

[3:08]
Almost50
Shiro
Farside22
grapes
mastin2
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lyncanfire)
MagnaofIllusion
TheFuzzylogic99
Creature
randomidget

[3:08]
Creature

drixx [3:08 PM]
our available pool that we aren't planning to night kill (that I'm aware of): (A50, Shiro, Grapes, MoI, Fuzzy, Creature, Random)

cerberus_v6.66 [3:09 PM]
why are we killing kraska?

drixx [3:09 PM]
Mastin and MoI should be our next two night kills and Kraska is the backup if we end up getting 2 NKs in exchange for TWIE

[3:09]
which might happen if he doesn't show up now

[3:09]
because I put huge pressure on farside

[3:09]
AND I made it so that if she talks to kraska it makes her look bad

cerberus_v6.66 [3:09 PM]
depends on her situational awareness

[3:09]
but yeah

drixx [3:10 PM]
so her only play is to beg kraska to trust her and just vote TWIE and let her kill him and be proven right

[3:10]
and then the next day we just say that was a hard bus to try and save herself AND it gave her team two kills in exchange for a doomed TWIE

[3:10]
so that plays into our hands

cerberus_v6.66 [3:10 PM]
yeah

[3:10]
why are we killing kraska?

drixx [3:10 PM]
less likely to have protection

cerberus_v6.66 [3:10 PM]
no no

[3:10]
why is kraska on the list even

[3:11]
or rather, not onthe list of people we aren't planning to kill

drixx [3:11 PM]
Kraska's on the no-kill list unless we get a 2 kill night

[3:11]
imo

[3:11]
MoI has claimed the protection Titus had

[3:11]
is he allied today? We might have to kill him tonight

cerberus_v6.66 [3:12 PM]
gems aren't allied

[3:12]
we kill one of them tonight

[3:12]
the problem with killing MoI

[3:12]
is he can come back or whatever

[3:12]
oh, and we also have a resurrection power to deal with

[3:12]
that fucks up our math

drixx [3:13 PM]
I think we HAVE to deal with it

[3:13]
gems are saving it for one of their own

[3:13]
forcing us to kill in that pool twice becuase otherwise we never outnumber them

cerberus_v6.66 [3:13 PM]
or they already decided to use it on NC

[3:13]
which has the same effect

[3:14]
since NC can passively protect his allies

drixx [3:14 PM]
its

cerberus_v6.66 [3:14 PM]
maybe we kill random tonight, MoI tomorrow, or vice versa?

[3:14]
:-/

[3:14]
like, who the fuck is lapis lazuli man?

[3:14]
she must be in the game

[3:15]
it's not creature, he's fucking ronaldo

[3:15]
grapes?

[3:15]
farside?

[3:15]
farside might make sense

[3:15]
lapis is fucking ridiculously powerful

[3:15]
and a loner

[3:16]
fuzzy claimed to be a watermelon steven

[3:16]
so yeah

[3:16]
grapes or farside is lapis

[3:16]
if she is

[3:16]
then yeah, we kill random tonight, MoI tomorrow, or vice versa

[3:16]
and get the farside lynch

[3:17]
and there will be no gems left alive

[3:17]
which means no resurrection to use

[3:21]
but she claimed kevin

[3:21]
ugh

[3:22]
which makes sense

[3:22]
so grapes is lapis?

[3:22]
or kraska is?

drixx [3:22 PM]
no real way to tell

[3:22]
someone wanted to mass claim

cerberus_v6.66 [3:23 PM]
ya

[3:24]
mass claim kills TWIE I think

[3:24]
jamie having a vig makes NO SENSE

[3:24]

cerberus_v6.66 [4:43 PM]
Please respond to farside, she makes absolutely no sense in it

drixx [5:11 PM]
responded

[5:11]
nailed it I hope

cerberus_v6.66 [5:13 PM]
Good answer

[5:13]
Gracias

[5:13]
I literally could not figure out what the fuck she was talking about

[5:13]
Simply could not parse it.

----- October 23rd -----
cerberus_v6.66 [1:34 PM]
Dude all this time she thought we had a role that could specifically give points to someone

[1:34]
And we were just ignoring thr fact that our role corroborated her claim

drixx [1:34 PM]
and I just double whammied her by saying "fuck no we aren't lynching you before TWIE shows up"

[1:34]
like ... she has no grounds at all to attack us at this poitn

[1:34]
point*

cerberus_v6.66 [1:35 PM]
(Not that it would have mattered, because our role wouldn't have confirmed her alignment, just that varsoon has a sense of humor giving town something to specifically buff a non-town slot )

[1:36]
We need to pressure the rest of the game

[1:36]
We've been tunneling too much and too content just letting the game stay focused in a small area

drixx [1:42 PM]
which is why I made the post I did

[1:43]
but my position has been, for days, that there's no point alerting people we suspect them when we're sure we have scum to hang

cerberus_v6.66 [1:43 PM]
Yeab. In this situation I would normally go through the playerlist and ask them ALL stuff

[1:43]
So nobody is alerted to specific focus being on them

[1:44]
That's a bitch to do from my phone/without a desk though, so I've held off

[1:45]
Bleh. I might try to do it later tonight.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:02 PM]
Omg drixx I'm gambiting it's weird.

drixx [2:10 PM]
good post

cerberus_v6.66 [2:13 PM]
Thanks

cerberus_v6.66 [2:20 PM]
No bite from shiro.

drixx [2:20 PM]
game's slow ... he may not check for awhile

cerberus_v6.66 [2:22 PM]
No no, I mea, he checked, but said no.

drixx [2:56 PM]
omfg, this security check is fucking taking forever

[2:56]
whoops wrong channel

cerberus_v6.66 [4:33 PM]
Setting farside up to discredit herself even further

[4:33]
She obviously thought your post about cluster points meant something completely different.

[4:34]
Gonna let her double down on what she's saying before I show her she's wrong.

drixx [8:59 PM]
Kraska popped the event cancellation

----- October 24th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [2:32 PM]
Following SU?

drixx [2:33 PM]
yeah ... making a post to MoI right now responding to #9566

cerberus_v6.66 [2:36 PM]
I made a response, dunno if you missed it

[2:36]
But there is definitely more to say

drixx [2:49 PM]
So what you're saying is that we're well into LAL territory here?

[2:49]
I'm personally willing to compromise. Creature has been in my scum pool for days (A50 can attest; I left reads with him on the assumption we might be killed before the finale). You're eviscerating him in real time.

[2:49]
But umm... I've made a rock solid case against Farside based upon her actions, the setup and she has lied enough times that if I quoted every lie and took the time to point out why it is a lie, it would be the longest post I've ever made in any mafia game ever. And that's saying a LOT.

[2:49]
So why are you opposed to lynching a slot that is dripping and oozing scumminess, could very easily be one of the leftovers and joined scum (similar to how the gems gained a leftover) after the beach-a-palooza, who has and can unilaterally end the day if we're the slightest bit careless, who has shown zero town motivation whatsoever, and has lied way more than Creature?

[2:49]
Show us what you see that we must be missing, because our standard for what it takes to conclude someone is scum is pretty freaking high (we can show you the effort we put into it in prior games so you can see if you don't know already) and we're sure. Us being sure means we've gone back through things with the intentionally opposite point of view and looked for any evidence we're wrong. There's

[2:49]
just nothing there man. Seriously ... show us becuase I'm getting tired of having a pissing match with you.

[2:49]
~Drixx

[2:50]
in response to #9576

[2:50]
that good?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:51 PM]
Ya, sounds good

[2:51]
Leaves you open to vote creature.

drixx [2:52 PM]
I was going for exasperated

[2:52]
like people who know us are vouching that we look like our gamesolving town play

[2:52]
which is really fucking hard to fake by the way

[2:52]
to win this we're going to have to sacrifice at least TWIE and maybe SS

[2:52]
I'd like to only have to sacrifice SS in a MYLO situation though

[2:53]
if it lets us go into LYLO with an obvious win scenario

drixx [3:01 PM]
he won't engage with me at all

cerberus_v6.66 [3:18 PM]
My assertion that there must be 1 scum among that group I listed is correct right?

[3:18]
Oh

[3:18]
I didn't list the group

[3:18]
It's A50, us, farside, and kraska

[3:19]
Because once anybof them flips scum, then we know where scum put extra votes at without requiring an increase in thr size of the team

[3:20]
Idk, maybe I am wrong. That was just what popped into my head as soon as he posted his analysis of beachapalooza stuff

[3:20]
And I didn't want to list the names because it includes A50

[3:21]
Who I don't want scum to think could possibly become conftown.

drixx [3:24 PM]
Then who else is scum besides Farside? Your "only 1 scum in these 4" makes even less sense under this scenario. I don't see how you are not getting that what you said is non-starter given you have espoused that you think there are many scum left.[/quote]

[3:24]
The last scum are almost certainly in the following: {Kraska, Creature, Farside, TWIE, Shiro} with outside small chances of one of the crystal gems group being a traitor or maybe Fuzzy. I would be pretty surprised by a Fuzzy scum flip but I had Skybird in my hard town reads before she flipped, so I'm not infallible.

[3:24]
Also: just talked to Cerb. There will be a pool of people who get cleared by either Farside or TWIE flipping scum (it isn't mutually exclusive; they could both be scum). Use a whiteboard or a piece of paper and you will figure it out.

cerberus_v6.66 [3:25 PM]
Please confirm I'm rifht

[3:26]
This is 100% top of my head just glancing at the event. I didn't work it out at all..:^

drixx [3:26 PM]
You are, based upon the set of assumptions Titus and Mastin gave the game, which they have assumed

cerberus_v6.66 [3:26 PM]
So I probably shouldn't havevmad that post

drixx [3:26 PM]
obviously it can't be right because we're scum

cerberus_v6.66 [3:26 PM]
Well no, it's right, it's just were in that pool

[3:27]
Mastin screwed it up with her assumptionnthst we would distribute votes evenly

drixx [3:27 PM]
Also: just talked to Cerb. There will be a pool of people who get cleared by either Farside or TWIE flipping scum (it isn't mutually exclusive; they could both be scum). Use a whiteboard or a piece of paper and you will figure it out. You're already most of the way there.

[3:28]
that too on the nose?

[3:28]
he's been really fucking snide with us and the only reason is us expressing doubt about the honesty of the gems

cerberus_v6.66 [3:31 PM]
Lol yeah.

[3:33]
I wonder why he has a problem with us?

[3:33]
If there's something beyond this game?

drixx [3:38 PM]
Creature just got himself lynched

cerberus_v6.66 [3:45 PM]
He's been doing that for awhile

drixx [3:46 PM]
I was trying to be devil's advocate for him and give him a way out of the hole he dug himself

cerberus_v6.66 [3:46 PM]
And farside just claimed that she's immune to all actions except being shot by scum

[3:47]
If he has to twie can, at some point, pretend moderator error

[3:47]
Say he asked varsoon if he was sure he wasn't dupposed to get some message or someting

[3:47]
And if we kill whoever claimed did something to fsrside before then...twie gets off.

[3:48]
Though he's still sorta a lylo lynch.

[3:49]
I also wonder how MoI can question my statement when I didn't state sny names defining the set

[3:54]
Also, you're welcome to go eat farside or ignore her, either way.

[3:54]
Town is dumb man

drixx [3:54 PM]
You should ask MoI how he can conclude you are wrong when you didn't define the set

cerberus_v6.66 [3:54 PM]
No way farside or us shouldn't be lynched today, just to end this shit. ^^

drixx [3:54 PM]
You should also say that we have reason not to define the set and it should be really obvious to him

cerberus_v6.66 [3:57 PM]
I did

[3:57]
But not the obvious part

[3:57]
Anuwahs, back to work.

drixx [4:11 PM]
You need to fucking stop it Farside. You've spent this entire game pretending that you are stupid and incapable of understanding nuance, temporal order, causality, or even basic reasoning. You're not stupid and I know you understand all of those things and yet you've spent literally the entire game pretending you didn't. At one point you were

CERTAIN

that Titus was scum and you shit on this

[4:11]
game for 50 pages with her, and you are now trying to do the same thing with us. It would take me HOURS to go through this thread and quote every time you lied, pretended you didn't understand temporal order, pretended you didn't understand how and why a read changed, etc... You never address any of the points in the case against you because you know we have you nailed. You just constantly try to

[4:11]
throw shade on us by manipulation and cherry picking, same as you did to Titus.

[4:11]
Reality is that things happen in a specific order. Creature has been in my pool of possible scum as far back as day 3. That pool is larger than the amount of scum could possibly be. That means more work is needed. I can view someone's posts as scummy (and Creature has posted a few dandies today) and also see the other side of the coin. That's how you're supposed to play the game. I know you have

[4:11]
a hard time with the whole "I need to consider both possibilities" thing, but just follow me here.

[4:11]
The only way a member of the scum team would be given an ability to investigate the "nature" of the gems (presumably this means wincon, but Creature hasn't elaborated) is if the scum team and crystal gems are somehow compatible. While that exists in the

possibility space

, it has such a low probability, imo, as to be not even worth seriously considering. That means that if Creature can PROVE

[4:11]
he's telling the truth about that, then Magna would KNOW that Creature has that ability, and then the probability of him being scum goes down so far that he goes on the "consider only in M/LYLO" pile.

[4:11]
But Creature already had a chance to use that ability and didn't do so, and his excuse for not doing so is underwhelming, at best.

[4:11]
You're not stupid, and when you continue to pretend to be stupid to try and throw shade on us, it just makes you look worse. Stop with the shitposting. This is the last time I'll be responding to a post where you play dumb and pretend you don't understand nuance and that you can't see we're actually trying to figure Creature out rather than deciding ahead of time and trying to justify that choice.

[4:11]
If you want to pretend you are stupid, then have fun talking to yourself. Otherwise start being intellectually honest because, at this point, if you flip town I will consider you to have intentionally tried to throw the game, given your play.

[4:11]
~Drixx

cerberus_v6.66 [4:23 PM]
Thumbs up

[4:24]
Also, creatures ability to investigate the gems as town implies that there's some benefit to them doing so, and since the default assumption of the game will be that they're town, it's more likely that they are not.

[4:24]
Something to bring up after he flips in thr hopes that rventually someone will eat ti lynch a fucking gem

[4:25]
Right now the game has had 7 slots that varsoon should have predicted town would not want lynched.

drixx [4:52 PM]
can you do me a favor and list those slots?

[4:56]
I just want to be prepared the next time MoI comes after us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:57 PM]
5 gems, one conftown to a gem (the main character, steven), and one conftown to the game.

[4:57]
Klingon, random, moi, yume, xkfyu, mastin, and titus

[4:58]
Almost 1/3rd of the game was impossible to mislynch.

[4:59]
Unless you mean the set of 4?

[4:59]
Which was kraska, A50, us, and farside.

[5:01]
Oh, and that's assuming there is no lapis

[5:02]
Who would have to be grapes or NC.

drixx [5:02 PM]
you gave me the ammunition I needed should MoI come after us again

[5:03]
I'll just point out the (true) observation that he has never actually given any reason to scum read us and is essentially pulling an OMGUS every time we express doubt about the gems

cerberus_v6.66 [5:08 PM]
*nods*

[5:08]
I think we kill him tonight

[5:08]
Maybe

[5:08]
Idk

[5:08]
Hell persist as a component

[5:09]
Which is evidence of us not being scum

[5:09]
Since shiro can vouch that we knew he'd still be in the game

drixx [5:09 PM]
then I'll point out that there was a voting block of 7 at game start that would never vote against any of those 7

cerberus_v6.66 [5:09 PM]
(If anyone trues to say we shot him because he was coming after us)

drixx [5:09 PM]
but yeah ... he makes sense as the kill target

cerberus_v6.66 [5:09 PM]
It's jist

[5:09]
If he still counts

[5:10]
And isn't like stumped

[5:10]
Then we need an extra mislynch

[5:10]
If we use a kill on him

[5:10]
I guess we probably can't win a lylo with him in it

drixx [5:12 PM]
kill will fail unless stress is -4

cerberus_v6.66 [5:14 PM]
Why would it fail?

drixx [5:15 PM]
Titus said that he has the same passive protection against kills that she did, and also has our hammer ability

[5:15]
which was one reason she suspected him

[5:15]
that's my final line of attack if he decides to 1v1 us

cerberus_v6.66 [5:16 PM]
Hmm

[5:16]
Her protection was against allies yes?

[5:16]
Bleh

drixx [5:17 PM]
couldn't be killed if she was in an alliance I think ... I'll go back and re-read and dump the basics in here since it's relevant to MoI

drixx [5:28 PM]
btw ... we KNOW that the crystal gems can't win with us

[5:28]
and so does the rest of the game

[5:29]
but I would bet you any amount of money nobody realizes they know it

cerberus_v6.66 [5:35 PM]
Lol yeah. I even pointed it out yo grapes.

[5:35]
If you mean the fact that gems killed scum

drixx [5:36 PM]
Scum win condition has been posted to the game 3 times

cerberus_v6.66 [5:36 PM]
Win con doesn't exclude gems?

drixx [5:37 PM]
the only way that the crystal gems can win with the threats from homeworld is if they basically surrender and join homeworld if the threats from homeworld gain dominance.

cerberus_v6.66 [5:37 PM]
If we killed all humans in the game and didn't lose anyone. Wed outnumber the gems ya?

drixx [5:38 PM]
I believe most people would consider that bastard

[5:38]
I suppose their win condition would be "If at least one Crystal gem is alive when the game ends, the Crystal Gems win."

[5:38]
but do they win alone?

[5:39]
that would be bullshit to the scum team because it would require dismantling a masonry that the whole game will view as pro town, BEFORE eliminating the last human

[5:40]
so that leaves they win with whomever wins (Masonry of Survivors) or they are town compatible

[5:40]
or some win con that I can't think of where they would win alone (apart from all humans being dead)

cerberus_v6.66 [5:45 PM]
Could just be have a human and gem alive when the game endsm

drixx [5:46 PM]
then why would the town need an investigate the "true nature" of the gems ability?

cerberus_v6.66 [5:49 PM]
Cuz it's a modified survivor win con

[5:50]
1 gem, 1 human, 2 scum, gems still win

cerberus_v6.66 [6:09 PM]
Ya know, if fsrside were so sure we were scum, you'd think she'd give us some credit for knowing what scum wanted out of the event

[6:09]
Ideally, a no lynch. If enough people could still vote, then a lynch on a teammate because r hey were thr ones likely to be lynchdd

[6:10]
The last thing we'd want is a town lynch, because the event doesn't help us get that.

[6:10]
And hurts us if it happens.

cerberus_v6.66 [6:30 PM]
Also, you can add farside to that list of 7

[6:30]
Even if she's not conftown

drixx [6:30 PM]
lol

cerberus_v6.66 [6:30 PM]
It's basically impossible to lynch someone before someone else is put at 1/2 to lynch

drixx [7:20 PM]
A50 just made a post that's going to get him actioned

cerberus_v6.66 [7:22 PM]
possibly

[7:22]
stupid game is stupid

[7:22]
how fucking dumb is it that our fantastic plan to force a no lynch today

[7:23]
got fucked because THE ONLY SLOT who could have done anything about it

[7:23]
happened to be in an alliance

[7:23]
because another fucking slot lied to conftown

[7:23]
The entire game should have been unable to do anything today

[7:24]
*sigh*

[7:24]
now mastin stopped caring

[7:24]
...

drixx [7:28 PM]
reaching out to mastin now

cerberus_v6.66 [7:31 PM]
man, I wouldn't even bother at this point

drixx [7:31 PM]
Mastin. I am absolutely convinced that Farside is scum. I laid out the case and she has refused at any time to engage with it or to engage with any meaningful game solving. She just shitposts against whomever is pushing her and literally does nothing else.

[7:31]
We need to work together to get this done. Pick an order. If you want Kraska first, then let's do it. I think Kraska makes way more sense as town given her play yesterday and today and given the abilities she had and used to save us from being stuck with a no lynch today; however, I've been mechanically fooled before (See: Steven Universe). If you're sure, then step up and let's do it because

[7:31]
you're the only conftown as far as we're concerned.

[7:31]
Also: I know you have a mind for setups. You should really re-consider blindly believing that the gems are "town" because you know for a fact that they are a separate alignment and you know that their win condition is hidden. You also now have a claim that tells you someone can investigate to find out more about them. Furthermore, if you have been paying attention you should have already concluded

[7:31]
that if the gems really are basically just town with another label, then we started the game with at least SEVEN slots who weren't ever going to be mislynch candidates, which is absurd.

[7:31]
Take what you know and evaluate it from a mechanical setup perspective. I don't particularly care if you end up in the same place as we have ... just that you re-evaluate your "Gems = town" stance, because I think you've just been holding onto it since the beginning and there's a pile of reasons that contradict it.

[7:31]
And before someone takes umbridge: I'm not saying the gems are scum. I

am

saying that what we KNOW and what they've told us don't add up.

[7:31]
~Drixx

[7:31]
P.S. - One of the things Titus wanted most was for us to get you involved and to get you to shake up and re-evaluate. What good are you as conftown if you won't lead? We could really use your help. Please just think about things. Also I just want to make sure: if we were to ally, you can't talk to us but we could talk to you? So we could just infodump to you? If that is the case, is that something

[7:31]
you're open to? We've got some info I'm almost certain you don't because you're saying things you wouldn't say if you did.

[7:31]
it won't do any good in terms of getting Mastin to engage or be useful or helpful to us

[7:31]
but it will look really fucking townie to the town

cerberus_v6.66 [7:40 PM]
yeah

[7:40]
sounds good

----- October 25th -----
drixx [5:32 PM]
we might just want to let TWIE die and use the then -4 stress to eliminate MoI, and then play it from there?

[5:32]
I don't think we're going to get a farside lynch ... and a creature lynch TODAY doesn't help us

[5:32]
today is probably the day to sacrifice a partner unless I'm too high to think straight?

cerberus_v6.66 [5:40 PM]
You are

[5:40]
Stress delaym

[5:41]
We won't have -4 tonight. If we no kill tonight, well have it tomorrow

[5:41]
With twie being lynches

[5:42]
The delay fucks us every time

[5:43]
Since scum only die via lynches, which means stress will never be dropped before the night phase, only afterm

drixx [5:44 PM]
need to point that out to Varsoon

[5:44]
because it's fucking absurd

cerberus_v6.66 [5:45 PM]
Also, we can kill moi without -4?

[5:45]
All titus said was he had her protection

[5:45]
The immunity during fi nales

[5:46]
The concern with him is his continued play as one of his components.

drixx [5:47 PM]
so he has to be killed twice basically

cerberus_v6.66 [5:47 PM]
If said component isn't just a stump, then we need an extra mislynch to win.

drixx [5:48 PM]
a stump would be irritating if he invested

[5:48]
he's the only one who is paying enough attention to us to realize that we're sliegh of handing our usual play

[5:48]
sleight*

cerberus_v6.66 [5:49 PM]
Not really, he just doesn't like my cockiness I think. His comments about our logic haven't been accurate imo.

drixx [5:50 PM]
well he can be undercut by an ISO showing that he only says he suspects us after I make posts questioning the crystal gems' honesty

cerberus_v6.66 [5:51 PM]
Mhm

----- October 26th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [4:01 PM]
Thoughts on game state?

drixx [4:32 PM]
got this response for Mastin

cerberus_v6.66 [4:32 PM]
*

drixx [4:32 PM]
sorry for the length: (When Farside eventually flips town, I want us to look absurdly good because no way would scum push and push and push so hard)

[4:32]
Two things. Firstly ... it's shitty that there's no communication by allying with you. We could infodump an absurd amount of info to you that you probably don't have and would help when you eventually step forward and take charge. We'll get the hell out of the way and just give our opinion if it means you'll actively play the game. An engaged and pushing Mastin is way better than what we're getting

[4:32]
right now. Remember ... we've seen you at your best, and from your thread input, this isn't it. (No offense intended here; I'm trying to motivate).

[4:32]
As for Farside: the biggest thing I can't get around is how she handled ending the day yesterday. We

KNOW

Varsoon has been busy because he has said so, is not snagging page tops or giving vote counts nearly as often as normal, etc... which means the simplest explanation (invoking OC since you did first) is that Farside ensured he was around before she made her move and ended the day. There

[4:32]
is no way to argue what she did was anything but scummy. Her action resulted in:

[4:32]
1.) Stress remaining at -4 when I believe both the gems and Kraska had set up triggers to increase stress at a certain vote threshold (correct me if I'm wrong; that's my understanding of where the gamestate was). That meant the scum could take out any target they wanted and nothing could prevent it.

[4:32]
2.) Exactly ONE alliance happening today, which just happened to be Farside. The problem with that is that Farside had firmly agreed to ally with Titus and they were supposedly going to sort their differences. She never took back her agreement to ally. So she effectively

lied to confirmed town

about it. Furthermore, Titus had claimed that her BP was contingent upon being allied, so Farside

[4:32]
lied to Conftown in such a way that said Conftown would be vulnerable due to having no alliance the next night.

[4:32]
3.) I know you consider this circumstantial, but in light of the above two points: then a scum event was triggered in which only people who were allied could vote. It's sheer luck that someone could expend their role utility to both move stress and blow up the scum event. The fact that Farside

intentionally

initiated a situation where there would be very few alliances, lied to conftown

[4:32]
(which would give the ability to kill Titus if something during the night had been able to take away the scum unblockable kill, btw) and also gave no warning and ensured the mod was around to end the day and lock as soon as she did it, and then the event came along that just happened to perfectly synergize with her actions?

[4:32]
If you want to argue that 3 is just co-incidence ... I'm not going to fight you over it. There's enough that's objectively scummy and unexplainable about her behavior if I assume town!farside that I don't have to fight over stuff that cannot be explicitly tied to her actions.

[4:32]

[4:32]
As for the gems, please consider the following: If the crystal gems (who are a third faction with a hidden win condition) really is simply a town faction with a different flavor but is for all intents and purposes town, then the following is true:

[4:32]
1.) At game start there were SEVEN slots who would never, under any circumstance, be possible to mislynch.

[4:32]
1a.) You (mod confirmed town to Yume to the thread), Titus (IC), the five gems (all are outed and most were obvious very early and in fact they leaked enough that we realized there was a separate faction super early)

[4:32]
1b.) The five gems are a very large masonry who started with night chat (standard for masons) but now apparently have day and night chat.

[4:32]
Use your setup mindset for a moment and tell me how you balance a game when nearly 1/3 of the slots can never be mislynched

AND

those slots are super powerful and have very strong protection.

[4:32]
HINT: Stress mechanic isn't the answer. Stress change isn't immediate so the stress shouldn't ever actually hit -4 ever in practice. It only did because of Farside's move. Take today, for example: Assuming we lynch scum, the flip will be delayed so the night begins with the scum not having unblockable kill. Scum presumably will kill someone so when the flip does happen, the gems simply flip one

[4:32]
of the scum kills and ensure stress never hits -4.

[4:32]
Now ... with all of that said: my best guess is that the gems can win either with town or they can win by themselves. It's

possible

that they could win with scum, but that seems really unlikely to me for numerous reasons. Being in the possibility space makes it something to note just in case, but it isn't a top priority.

[4:33]
it won't let me paste that much in slack

[4:33]
posting it in our PT

[4:33]
it's in the PT

[4:33]
sorry for the length

cerberus_v6.66 [4:35 PM]
Lol k

[4:36]
Nice

drixx [4:36 PM]
the logic is sound about the crystal gems right?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:36 PM]
Appreciate you using the point I was going to ask Varsoon about

[4:36]
If we ever saw a gem flip

drixx [4:36 PM]
if their claimed wincon is true, then all EARTH aligned players dead = a draw at best.

cerberus_v6.66 [4:36 PM]
Like, since we killed KC I've been anxious to ask what happens if every human dies

[4:37]
And only the crystal gems and scum are left alive

[4:37]
But because we've never seen a gem flip, I couldnt

[4:37]
The flaw in your idea, btw, is that if the gems out umber the scu

[4:37]
They'll know who the scum are

[4:38]
So they kynch each day, and scum kill

[4:38]
And eventually scum can't win

[4:38]
And gems can't win

[4:38]
So it's town loss, scum loss, gem loss

[4:38]
So yeah

[4:38]
Draw I guess

[4:38]
And you're welcome to post it

[4:38]
Idk if she'll care.

drixx [4:52 PM]
a few changes:

[4:52]
The gems have claimed they also need an Earth aligned player left alive to win. That means that since the gems are outed, the scum team only has to kill off the others in order to win, if the gems are telling the truth. The problem with that is that we've SEEN the scum win condition. So if the gems cannot win once the last Earth aligned player is dead, the best they can do is play for a draw at

[4:52]
that point because the scum win condition is: "In order to win the game, your faction must equal or exceed the number of other surviving players left alive." according to the flips.

[4:52]
So logically speaking, it seems most likely that the crystal gems can win alone or share a win with town. It does not make sense for the win condition they claimed to be true, because it basically takes a whole chunk of people and makes them unlynchable and it also greatly reduces the mislynches scum need to get into a position where the worst they get is a draw. It therefore seems far more likely

[4:52]
to me that the gems can either win alone or have a shared win with town. I don't believe it logically holds to assume they must have an earth aligned player alive in order to win. That would result in "everyone loses" a lot of the time, and I can tell you from bitter experience that investing for hundreds of pages for a "You all lose! Nobody wins!" is really fucking infuriating and I simply don't

[4:52]
think Varsoon would do that.

[4:52]
Cue MoI to come call me scum for using sound logic to point out why the win condition his faction has claimed doesn't make any sense and is therefore probably a lie.

[4:53]
is my logic sound?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:59 PM]
Yep

----- October 27th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [12:53 PM]
When you get the chance and feel better, can you explain the reasoning behind exposing that we've had an ability stolen?

drixx [12:54 PM]
because it's confirmable information and honesty and openess will keep people on our side no matter how hard MoI pushes

[12:54]
it's clear now that I'm right and they are lying and he wants us gone

[12:54]
we should kill him tonight

cerberus_v6.66 [1:15 PM]
We've been over this a billion times?

[1:15]
I agree, but if his component remains around it means we'll need annextra mislynch to win

[1:16]
Plus side is since shiro KNOWS we know about his ability, killing him doesn't make sense from us.

drixx [1:16 PM]
yeah I feel you

[1:17]
I think shooting him makes us basically unlynchable to the rest of the game

[1:17]
well ... assuming shiro will ever actually read the thread and confirm stuff people have asked him to

cerberus_v6.66 [1:19 PM]
Yeah

[1:19]
Farside should be lynched tiday

[1:19]
Easy

[1:19]
Idk why shiro never voted

[1:19]
He votes, we push SS to vote her

[1:19]
And TWIE can scjm hammer

[1:20]
Doesn't even matter.

drixx [1:20 PM]
Creature is okay

[1:20]
let MoI push creature and show that his reads are awful

cerberus_v6.66 [1:21 PM]
Yeah

[1:21]
Farside is a problem no matter what though.

[1:21]
I think we bus twie tomorrow

[1:21]
Ignore farside

[1:21]
Maybe

[1:21]
Idk

drixx [1:21 PM]
tomorrow is day 6

[1:21]
according to the reads I left A50, day 6 is when TWIE eats rope if he's not contributing

[1:22]
pushing TWIE tomorrow essentially makes us conftown in A50's eyes

[1:22]
also it will be hilarious if MOI continues as Ruby and isn't part of the Crystal Gems

cerberus_v6.66 [1:23 PM]
Lol

drixx [1:24 PM]
where did that info come from?

[1:24]
I know Titus ... but who told her about it?

[1:24]
I'm starting to wonder if all the gems have really seen each other's role cards

cerberus_v6.66 [1:26 PM]
Yume told her

cerberus_v6.66 [1:57 PM]
We're not gonna be able to ally with random or A50.

[1:57]
Also, Magna CANT ally except with gems

[1:58]
While the stress is negative

[1:58]
So random is going to ally with him

[2:00]
Alsl, the reason to ally with A50 doesn't exist?

[2:00]
We're at -2

drixx [2:03 PM]
so who do I suggest we ally?

[2:03]
Farside?

[2:03]
Fuzzy?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:03 PM]
I jsut suggested kraska

[2:03]
Since we sorta need to sort them

[2:04]
Out of everyone left

drixx [2:04 PM]
you didn't say Kraska

cerberus_v6.66 [2:04 PM]
I just did right now

[2:05]
I missed a word.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:34 PM]
MoI replied to you

[2:34]
And claims that the gems autolose and are removed from the game if all humans are killed

[2:34]
You'll enjoy his phrasing

[2:35]
Blaming that fact on our "blathering"

[2:35]
When it's a simple mechanical fact they should have asked about from the pregame

drixx [2:50 PM]
I made a post about it that should be oozing town to people

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
He responded!

cerberus_v6.66 [3:03 PM]
Too bad there's no way we can win without killing them

[3:03]
8 town slots, not including them, need to die (maybe 7 if grapes is lapis)

[3:05]
Kraska/creature/a50/grapes/tfl/shiro/farside/mastin2

[3:07]
Creature lynched, nk mastin/grapes/A50, lynch farside kraska, left with a tfl/shiro/2 gems vs however many if us lived lylo.

[3:07]
And if thry pick wrong they lose

[3:07]
Hmm

[3:08]
If it gets to that game state with all 3 of us alive, they can't win

[3:08]
Seems harder than just killing the gems though?

drixx [3:33 PM]
the gems are free kills if that admission was honest

[3:33]
it's possible he realized that such a win con claim could lead to scum going after town

[3:34]
so we sort of always have to make sure the gems are equal to our number

[3:34]
so that if they don't auto lose, they still lose, yeah?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:37 PM]
Lol yeah

[3:37]
I think we still kill moi

[3:38]
But we leave random alone and by himself

[3:38]
Mm

[3:38]
Does it even matter??

[3:39]
It only matters if we're at even numbers I think?

[3:39]
I need to lay out the progression to be sure

drixx [3:39 PM]
well we need to "equal or exceed"

cerberus_v6.66 [3:39 PM]
Yes

drixx [3:39 PM]
so if we killed all humans and it was equal, we win

cerberus_v6.66 [3:40 PM]
Sure

drixx [3:40 PM]
if they had lynch control and lied to bait the scum team, we would lose

cerberus_v6.66 [3:40 PM]
I'm not sure it matters?

[3:40]
That's what I'm saying

drixx [3:40 PM]
it's possible he realized the one win condition I didn't think should be shared and shared it as bait

[3:40]
yeah ... it doesn't

cerberus_v6.66 [3:40 PM]
It only matters...if the gems exceed us

drixx [3:40 PM]
exactly

cerberus_v6.66 [3:40 PM]
So if we lose twie and ss

[3:40]
It allows the last scum to win faster without ever having to face off against an unbeatable gem bloc

drixx [3:41 PM]
it makes the setup make sense if he told the truth

cerberus_v6.66 [3:41 PM]
So, say we ignore them

drixx [3:41 PM]
it was just very unwise for him to share that

cerberus_v6.66 [3:41 PM]
Game is at 11 now effectively

[3:41]
With 3 scum

drixx [3:41 PM]
as long as we can get enough mislynches we could ignore them

[3:41]
we're getting creature today and could kill mastin tonight

cerberus_v6.66 [3:41 PM]
10 after our kill, 3 scum

[3:42]
Still need 7 deaths

[3:42]
2 more mislynches puts us at 8 alive, 3 scum, 2 gems, 3 humans

drixx [3:43 PM]
2 more AFTER creature and including night kills?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:43 PM]
Yes

[3:43]
It's slower

[3:43]
Than just a normal win

[3:43]
BUT it's faster if we're going to be losing teammates along the way

[3:43]
I think?

[3:43]
Idk man

[3:43]
Need to plot it out lol

drixx [3:43 PM]
well ... we have to go after TWIE tomorrow

cerberus_v6.66 [3:44 PM]
Mainly cause we've hurt thr gems so much already

[3:44]
It would matter more if there were more of them left alive

drixx [3:44 PM]
Shiro and A50 both have my reads that if TWIE isn't obviously town and gamesolving by tomorrow, he should be considered scum

cerberus_v6.66 [3:44 PM]
Sure

[3:44]
I'm considering voting twie today

[3:44]
And saying actually, I prefer this over creature. P

[3:44]
But farside will be able to hammer him

[3:44]
Which is why having her around sucks

[3:45]
No posturing possible

[3:48]
Also, why is moi so mad? I publicly speculated thst the gems might disappear from the game under some circumstance(when they reached their unknown win con) back on D2 or D3

[3:48]
If he was paying attention should have realized we were considering the possibility that the gems might all disappear from the game under some circumstances

[3:49]
So, who is town is willing to lynch?

[3:50]
Tfl is probtown, so is grapes(and he's probably unlynchable anyways, A50 is conftown cause skybird fell into Xkfyus trap, gems are acceptable

[3:50]
Kraska, shiro

[3:50]
Ss twie

[3:50]
Farside

[3:51]
That's it

[3:51]
Those are the only slots we can reasonable push

drixx [3:53 PM]
Kraska

cerberus_v6.66 [3:53 PM]
I listed them

[3:54]
5 slots

drixx [3:54 PM]
ahh

[3:54]
well ... yeah

[3:54]
is 5 mislynches enough to win?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:54 PM]
Kraska, shiro, farside, and our teammates.

[3:54]
We need 3 mlre

[3:54]
After creature

[3:54]
Assuming no kills fail

drixx [3:54 PM]
and should I ask Farside to ally and tell her I'm tired of fighting in the thread and going in circles and we can try and hash shit out in the PT and she can get a read on us and vice versa without all the public posturing and rhetoric?

cerberus_v6.66 [3:54 PM]
2 more after creature for lylo

drixx [3:55 PM]
is that a thing we would do

cerberus_v6.66 [3:55 PM]
No

[3:55]
I mean, yes

[3:55]
But not at thus stage? With her claimed alliance breaking power?

[3:55]
Idk. Maybe?

[3:56]
She wants to allow shadow

[3:56]
If he can get her townreading him, it's very good

drixx [3:56 PM]
sure

[3:56]
if we can get her townreading us that would be amazingly good

cerberus_v6.66 [3:56 PM]
Limits the risk

[3:56]
Lol yeah

drixx [3:56 PM]
we could even pretend to townread her until lylo

cerberus_v6.66 [3:56 PM]
But we're not gonna do thaf.

drixx [3:56 PM]
and then cherry pick from the PT to get her finally lynched

cerberus_v6.66 [3:56 PM]
That is, convince her

[3:57]
Idk

[3:57]
Maybe you could pull it off

drixx [3:57 PM]
Dude ... we convinced Titus

cerberus_v6.66 [3:57 PM]
I don't think I could

[3:57]
(and mastin)

drixx [3:57 PM]
this is why I find playing scum thrilling btw. It's difficult (to me) but it's always exciting

[3:58]
I like playing town in hydra with you ... less so by myself lately

[3:58]
people see that fucking scummy banner and expect me to hand them the game solved like a rubik's cube on day one

cerberus_v6.66 [3:58 PM]
Meh. I feel shitty getting helpless people lynched

[3:58]
Like creature/tfl

drixx [3:58 PM]
it's the wincon ... nothing personal

cerberus_v6.66 [3:58 PM]
Yeah, I know

[3:59]
Some people just do things that make them easy targets and hang themselves as town

[3:59]
Not fair yo

[4:00]
Oh and they're not asshooes

[4:00]
*assholes*

[4:00]
I don't mind if someone does something dumb and gets themselves mislynched and is an asshole

[4:00]
But creature and fuzzy seem nice, just not as on top of things as they need to be

drixx [4:02 PM]
yeah

[4:02]
but I mean ... I'm not going to throw the game

cerberus_v6.66 [4:05 PM]
Yeah I know.

[4:05]
Just expressing my personal reaction to stuff like creatures play today

[4:07]
Hmm

[4:07]
I can't talk about kraska more

[4:07]
Allying wirh her might be bad

[4:07]
She's mechanically unlikely to be scum

[4:08]
Because she displayed rhe ability to drop stress 2, and thus could have enabled skybirds vigilante anytime

[4:08]
I can't day that though

[4:09]
I've conftowned too mahy people by play

[4:09]
A50, TFL, and kraska would all be off the table for town me

[4:09]
In the short term at leasr.

drixx [4:10 PM]
let's reach out to Farside

[4:13]
that's the obvious answer to the dilemma of conftowning people

[4:13]
people have said she has to die before LYLO

[4:13]
so even if we come out of that alliance and stop pushing her actively, she's still a viable lynch candidate

cerberus_v6.66 [4:14 PM]
Hm.

drixx [4:18 PM]
I can ask fuzzy to ally instead?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:22 PM]
Fuzzy could be good

drixx [4:22 PM]
if you think I can convince Farside we're town, I'll reach out to her

cerberus_v6.66 [4:22 PM]
I like that

drixx [4:22 PM]
I think I can ... Fuzzy is a decent back up though

[4:22]
which would you prefer?

cerberus_v6.66 [4:22 PM]
I'd prefer to have farside lyched and moi dead tonight so we're the only voice left in the thread.

drixx [4:23 PM]
well we're not going to get a farside lynch today

cerberus_v6.66 [4:23 PM]
Pfft

[4:23]
We're one town vote asay

[4:23]
:/

[4:24]
Just need fucking shiro to vote damnit

[4:24]
*sigh*

drixx [4:24 PM]
and if we convince her we're town and we come out of the alliance not tunneling her, she becomes a policy lynch later

cerberus_v6.66 [4:24 PM]
Not really

[4:24]
She becomes conftown with certain flips

[4:24]
Well, maybe not

drixx [4:24 PM]
our flip is the only one that conftowns her

cerberus_v6.66 [4:24 PM]
Meh

drixx [4:25 PM]
and if we come out of the alliance and mutually town read one another

[4:25]
then we can both say that the scum are all outside of the top voting pool

cerberus_v6.66 [4:25 PM]
Hmm

[4:25]
Yeah

[4:25]
That is possible

[4:26]
Did I screw up the beachapalooza?

[4:26]
Could we have done it better?

[4:26]
I mean we knew it would force a narrow path

drixx [4:26 PM]
a town us would want the shitposting endless circle stopped

cerberus_v6.66 [4:26 PM]
Feels worse than I expected thoufh

[4:27]
Yeah

[4:27]
Well

[4:27]
You can try man

drixx [4:27 PM]
Beach-a-palooza plus the fact that Mastin and Titus both feel we're town is a lot in our favor

[4:27]
the gems losing if all town die explains why this has felt so hard though

[4:28]
not even SMITE at the worst moment felt this hard

[4:28]
this replaces smite as the hardest scum game I've ever played

[4:28]
I'd really like to win it

cerberus_v6.66 [4:30 PM]
Idk if we'd seek to stop the shitposting by allying though

[4:30]
Or if we'd just put her on ignore

drixx [4:30 PM]
I'm just going to ask Fuzzy to ally

cerberus_v6.66 [4:30 PM]
I feel I'd ignore her, if not for the memory of Bloodborne

[4:33]
MN

[4:33]
If our two gems kills we targeted had been on toen

[4:34]
We'd be at 4 gems, 3 scum, 6 town right now

[4:34]
We'd need one less mislynch to win

[4:34]
But it would become harder and harder to avoid the lynches

[4:35]
Since on the last day it'd be 2 town, 1-3 scum, and 4 gems

[4:35]
And gems had some roleblocking to sort us out

drixx [4:35 PM]
yeah I think we have played about as good as we could given the info we've had

cerberus_v6.66 [4:36 PM]
Shoulda figured out the gem disappearance thing

[4:36]
I mean, that was what I was thinking when we killed kc

[4:36]
I wanted her dead specifically to see a gem flip

[4:36]
To ask the question

[4:36]
Then when she didn't have a win con....I no longer had any idea

cerberus_v6.66 [4:56 PM]
Any idea wtf the guilty thing could be?

drixx [4:57 PM]
bullshit imo

[4:57]
if MoI actually had a guilty on us he would be pushing us

cerberus_v6.66 [4:57 PM]
*nods*

drixx [4:58 PM]
reaction test and he tried to frame my response as "emotional", imo

cerberus_v6.66 [4:58 PM]
NC mentioned something on D3 about thinking we were scum, I think

[4:58]
But he screwed up what he wS trying to say

[4:58]
And retracted it

[4:58]
Gonna check his iso for that

[4:58]
"Its" iso

[5:02]
But either way, I can't imagine a guilty that would show up now

[5:02]
Since all we've done all game is roleblock yume once, without targeting her

[5:02]
(Should ask Varsoon if a tracker/watcher would see that)

[5:02]
And killed kc that same night.

drixx [5:06 PM]
if it was a hard guilty, there's no way it wouldn't have just been claimed outright and we'd be eating rope

[5:06]
it was a reaction test

cerberus_v6.66 [5:06 PM]
Fair enough

[5:06]
How did I do?

drixx [5:09 PM]
good post

drixx [6:44 PM]
[20:27] <cerberusv6.66> Twie might still end up lynched

[6:44]
[20:27] <cerberusv6.66> Because grapes just blank voted him

[6:44]
I'm woozy

[6:44]
pill plus my blood sugar crashed because I forgot to eat anything

cerberus_v6.66 [6:45 PM]
Ah

[6:45]
Well

[6:45]
We're in a shitty situation

drixx [6:45 PM]
we need to be on the lynch ... whomever it is

cerberus_v6.66 [6:45 PM]
And I don't know how to save it

[6:45]

[6:45]
You're woozy. Go rest yo.

cerberus_v6.66 [7:00 PM]
Good post. Idk what to say to the creature/twie question

[7:00]
Ideally we'd vote creature, so she's equally capable of lynching either

[7:01]
But I don't want to suppprt the creature oynch and make her hammer twie as a result

drixx [7:02 PM]
say that we see rational reasons to suspect both, but Creature is where we would go today because TWIE could be doing his normal town thing. Add in the caveat that we put a clock on him back on day 3 that if he wasn't engaged and obviously game solving by day 6 that we would push him then, and we mean to follow through since pushing Farside just results in noise in the thread.

[7:03]
I would phrase it like ....

[7:04]
"Magna has pointed out the many reasons to vote for Creature. Getting caught with conflicting stories and getting caught in lies is pretty hard to explain away, especially when it is as much as has been pointed out with Creature. It's pretty close to beyond the benefit of the doubt at this point."

cerberus_v6.66 [7:05 PM]
Mm do you think she'll care if you just answer?

drixx [7:10 PM]
You don't want me talking to Mastin right now

cerberus_v6.66 [7:11 PM]
Not mastin?

[7:11]
Farside asked the question

drixx [7:11 PM]
read what I said to you in the other slack

cerberus_v6.66 [7:12 PM]
I did

drixx [7:16 PM]
we've played with creature before right?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:16 PM]
Mmm

drixx [7:18 PM]
doing the post

cerberus_v6.66 [7:19 PM]
Thanks man. I'm looking at our precious gaea together

[7:19]
I want to say yes, but I don't know when

[7:23]
I don't see him in our hydra games..

[7:24]
Did you play with him in wakes game?

drixx [7:27 PM]
yeah but I got night killed really fucking early in Wake's game

[7:27]
apparently I scared the fuck out of the scum team

cerberus_v6.66 [7:27 PM]
Lol

drixx [7:28 PM]
no really ... I think that's the reason I was given when I got to the dead thread

[7:28]
the scum team was scared of my town game and wanted me gone

[7:28]
like I said man ... that damned scummies banner

cerberus_v6.66 [7:32 PM]
I think I should just keep losing town games

[7:32]
That way I never get nkd

[7:33]
Good post btw

[7:33]
Ty

drixx [7:50 PM]
wow ... Grapes thinks it's a good idea for us to ally farside, and she agreed.

[7:50]
I thought for sure she would be like "fuck no"

[7:50]
shit man, I'm sorry. Fuzzy would have been a better choice

cerberus_v6.66 [7:50 PM]
Lol

[7:51]
Ah well

----- October 31st -----
cerberus_v6.66 [5:40 PM]
There's no way we can vote anyone but TWIE after mastins last posts.

[5:41]
Makes too much damn sense man.

[5:42]
With your permission, I'm going to say something along the lines of "That...that makes a lot of sense" and vote TWIE.

[5:43]
Oh, and preface it about how I haven't joined any wagons today, OTHER THAN FARSIDE, because I refused to enable a hammer by her, but now I'm pretty sure both TWIE and Creature are in range so withholding my vote from those wagons no longer makes sense.

drixx [5:45 PM]
I would say "thanks for realizing we're town" in response to #10105, say that we disagree about farside but we DID ask Mastin to play and then say that given my read that TWIE should have started gamesolving by now, you feel confident voting there.

[5:45]
or rather confident I won't mind

[5:45]
I think Farside is going to hammer Creature

cerberus_v6.66 [5:45 PM]
Yep

[5:46]
Unless maatin convinces her

[5:46]
Us voting twie might actually dissuade her.

[5:46]

drixx [5:46 PM]
the trick is to make the post and get those things in and say you feel confident I won't mind, but hold the vote

[5:46]
you can put the vote on

cerberus_v6.66 [5:46 PM]
Holding thr vote doesn't matter

drixx [5:46 PM]
but if you hold it on the premise you are waiting for me

[5:46]
and he flips scum

[5:46]
then we look super town

cerberus_v6.66 [5:46 PM]
O.o

[5:46]
Not sure I follow

[5:47]
Not sure I agree. I think we'd look worse

[5:47]
But it's very subjective

drixx [5:47 PM]
because why on earth would you say you're pretty confident I'll be okay with the vote and not just place the vote for credit on the flip

[5:48]
if you phrase it like "Given that he planned on pushing TWIE tomorrow anyway, barring TWIE making himself obviously townie, I'm pretty sure Drixx will agree. I'll check with him and make sure."

[5:48]
unless you think the stall is a bad play

[5:48]
then just vote

cerberus_v6.66 [5:48 PM]
The thanks comment is really not me

drixx [5:48 PM]
condescending is totally you

cerberus_v6.66 [5:48 PM]
Lol

drixx [5:49 PM]
you would probably say it differently though

cerberus_v6.66 [5:49 PM]
Yes but I don't express it that way.

[5:49]
Exactly

drixx [5:49 PM]
but mastin's mosts are confusing

[5:49]
she's basically like "If TWIE is scum, RR probably isn't"

cerberus_v6.66 [5:49 PM]
Yeah

drixx [5:49 PM]
but then in another post lists him as our most likely scum partner?

cerberus_v6.66 [5:50 PM]
I think she made a typo in one of the posts

[5:50]
At this stage, I mostly think that TWIE flipping scum means kraska and Shiro are scum as well, with an outside shot at RR replacing TWIE. (RR has done an awful lot to specifically avoid joining a wagon which makes an awful lot of sense.

[5:51]
That but

[5:51]
We replace someone, not TWIE, in that list

[5:51]
And I think she has multiple potential scum teams in mind

[5:51]
One set is perfectly accurste

[5:51]
And the other isn't.

drixx [5:51 PM]
so do we want her dead tonight?

cerberus_v6.66 [5:51 PM]
Naw

[5:52]
Well

[5:52]
Let's see who gets lynched

[5:52]
A creature kynch means a twie bus tomorrow

[5:52]
Like 100% of the time

[5:52]
Which means we can leave mastin around

[5:52]
A twie lynch..

[5:52]
Makes the path uncertain

[5:57]
@Mastin: I've avoided joining any wagons other than farside's because I didn't want to enable her votes. NOW though, I think both other wagons are past the threshold, so a farside lynch is basically impossible without a bunch of unvoting, since she can just hammer either one.

With that said, your line of reasoning regarding TWIE makes a fuckton of sense, and Drixx did say that he wanted you playing the game and to get out of your way. I'll check in with him, but given his position that twie should be gamesolving by D6, and our proximity to said day,I'm pretty sure that Drixx will agree that TWIE is objectively the best lynch for today, EVEN in the face of the numerous reasons to suspect Creature. I'll check with him and make sure.

-Cerb

[5:57]
Thoughts?

drixx [5:58 PM]
express confidence and vote

cerberus_v6.66 [5:59 PM]
So replace the check with you thing

[5:59]
With a vote for TWIE?

drixx [5:59 PM]
I feel like you're right and the staying off the wagon might look bad if it's TWIE and not creature

[5:59]
I still think Farside will hammer Creature

cerberus_v6.66 [6:00 PM]
Yeah

[6:00]
Alright posting, just replaced checking with you with a vote.

drixx [6:15 PM]
an on jumps creature making himself look crazzzzzyyyy scummy

drixx [6:57 PM]
I feel like the right post would get Mastin to make really wrong conclusions from this VCA she's doing

[6:57]
I'm just not sure how to phrase it

cerberus_v6.66 [7:02 PM]
That sir, is playing with firem

[7:02]
*fire*

drixx [8:18 PM]
yes it is

[8:18]
but get her to say the right thing today and then kill her and that could be what buys us the win

cerberus_v6.66 [8:18 PM]
Well, she sorta may have already done thst

[8:19]
She just put us at the absolutely end of her lynch order

[8:19]
Only scum if multiple things happen.

drixx [8:26 PM]
I'm going to just take it as a compliment that we've played so obviously townie and you still have a scenario in mind where you would consider us possibly scum.

[8:26]
Titus had her doubts as well, by the way, but she didn't by the end of the night. Of course, what she did to confirm us permanently cost us the one part of our role you don't seem to have been made aware of (her role allowed her to steal abilities...) and which we wanted to use some deception to try and get mechanical guilties/clears with. If she had been alive at day start I was going to go after

[8:26]
her like nobody's business. You should have a laugh at the several posts I made after she did it. I about lost my shit.

[8:26]
I would say Shiro can confirm, but Shiro hasn't confirmed

anything

from that PT. Shiro watched and got lots of info and has done jack shit with it. I'm starting to be a little concerned by that, especially when Shiro knows we posted in this thread things that he could confirm and he never did any but then asked us to vouch for them.

[8:26]
I'm also starting to be a little skeeved out by how easy we got townread by Shiro.

[8:26]
Food for thought.

cerberus_v6.66 [8:29 PM]
Umm, your timing is ofd

[8:29]
She atoll it from us while the thread was locked in the finale

[8:29]
Not during the night before she got shot

drixx [8:30 PM]
no

[8:30]
we were able to post

cerberus_v6.66 [8:30 PM]
Yes

[8:30]
We were able to post in that pt

[8:30]
While everything else was locked

[8:30]
During the lynch vote event

[8:31]
You didn't really post at all during day 4 though I don't think?

[8:31]
But you DID post in the pt after farside's hammer

[8:31]
And you were no longer angry at titus and you were actively working with her

drixx [8:32 PM]
oh well

cerberus_v6.66 [8:32 PM]
(I meam didn't post in the main thread)

[8:32]
Yo can communicate the same sentiment

[8:32]
The timing was just different

drixx [8:32 PM]
Mastin now has made it where killing her is valuable

[8:33]
whereas before I would have gone after MoI in the hopes that if he continues as ruby he becomes an SK or joins scum or something cool like that

[8:33]
well ... I would have at least suggested it ;p

cerberus_v6.66 [8:33 PM]
You weren't well/were busy during that phase, so THAT'S why you didn't go after hed

[8:33]
Well

[8:34]
I don't know if we can afford letting gems live

[8:34]
Confirmation of gem factional events from MoI

drixx [8:37 PM]
whenever we see how this day plays out we should go through the remaining players and make a tree of paths to victory

[8:37]
it's close enough now that it won't be that much work to do it, and knowing exactly what we need will help

cerberus_v6.66 [8:37 PM]
Yeah

[8:42]
Mastin is indeed at 100%

[8:43]
Oh no

[8:43]
Not qjite

[8:43]
Quite. Because she has fuzzy/creature both tied for lynch

[8:44]
And ahead of us and SS.

----- November 1st -----
drixx [12:01 AM]
I can't believe Shadow Step just actually implicitly asked us if he could bus us

[12:02]
fucking worthless piece of trash who refuses to actively play thinks he can win?

drixx [6:41 PM]
I'll probably delete that previous line when next I log dump

[6:41]
while I still feel that way... all that line would do is piss someone off to no actual useful effect

cerberus_v6.66 [6:41 PM]
Lol

drixx [6:41 PM]
also ... Mastin just had to get active before the day ended

cerberus_v6.66 [6:41 PM]
Yeah

drixx [6:41 PM]
I THINK since she has rated us as the least likely scumspect that we should kill her

cerberus_v6.66 [6:41 PM]
And farside had to disappear

[6:42]
Downtime probably hurt us us a lot

[6:42]
Because mastin is vla on weekends

drixx [6:42 PM]
I think we're in good shape since I basically olive branched Mastin and said we wanted her active

[6:43]
then if she dies having pointed the finger at other pairings and explained why we're nearly cleared the natural tendency will be for people to put stock in what she said, if they consider what she said at all after she's gone

[6:43]
90% of the time nobody even goes and looks at what dead people say

[6:43]
I think we want fuzzy to have a vig shot and shoot not!us

cerberus_v6.66 [6:44 PM]
Yep

drixx [6:44 PM]
I was going to suggest search for jasper tonight to lower stress

[6:44]
but fuzzy needs stress to shoot

cerberus_v6.66 [6:47 PM]
No

[6:47]
He needs stress to have a strongman shot

[6:47]
Or to not have some % based failure chance

drixx [6:47 PM]
oh then search for jasper makes sense

cerberus_v6.66 [6:47 PM]
He said at +? It's guaranteed to work

drixx [6:47 PM]
lowering stress is apt to make him feel more comfortable shooting someone yes?

cerberus_v6.66 [6:47 PM]
But he can shoot anytime

[6:48]
Alsp, search for jasper is only possible at +2 stress

[6:48]
I think?

----- November 9th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [10:17 AM]
So..

[10:18]
I sort of want to defend shiro

[10:18]
And bring up the fact that we both knew MoI wouldn't die if shor

[10:18]
*shot*

[10:19]
I think us bringing it up to defend him gives us a lot more ton credit than if we bring it up to defend ourselges

[10:19]
And ensures that fact is known to the thread fully before shiro is dead, assuming he gets lynched

[10:20]
The risk is if course that our point is strong enough that he doesn't get lynched.

[10:20]
Thereby leaving us with yet another conftown

[10:20]
Also if MoIs "clear" is on shiro....

[10:20]
We need to mention this BEFORE MoI clears him, or it loses all value as a defensive point

[10:20]
And we lose the credit for attempting to prevent a mislynch.

cerberus_v6.66 [10:29 AM]
Man, town totally has a 100% draw in 3p lylo if they accept my conclusion that fuzzy is town. Fuzzy allies with the person he believes is scummiest, they lynch that person, amd fuzzy shoots the other person that night. Forces scum to shoot whoever fuzzy would ally, thus removing the mislynch, amd with all the conftown in this game denying scum the ability to remove said conftown, probably costing them the game.

[10:29]
Good thing they won't realize that.

drixx [1:58 PM]
yeah

[1:58]
the defending shiro thing was the thing I was afraid to do or not

cerberus_v6.66 [2:00 PM]
Grapes straight out asked me what I thought of shiro etc

[2:00]
So I went ahead and pointed that out

[2:01]
But in the middle of a whole wall of stuff

[2:01]
So it's there, but I have some qualifiers so it's not absolute, and town could easily ignore it.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:07 PM]
Also, did you notice how MoI said TWIES flip/the connection between DGB and the rest of the scum team makes US more likely to be scum, even though there's no relation between them. At no point was our position in beachapalooza reliant upon dgb having a way to talk to the scum team?

drixx [2:10 PM]
MoI has been after us for ages ... not sure he's really credible

cerberus_v6.66 [2:12 PM]
He isn't. I'm just pointing out something that doesn't make sense.

drixx [2:14 PM]
also just found out I'll be offline when they come to do my internet service swap tomorrow until I get my heavy duty stuff moved which isn't happening until Saturday sometime

[2:15]
Friday, not tomorrow

[2:15]
I mean ... it was already going to happen with the in-laws arriving Friday morning and not leaving until Sunday but I could have snuck time in...

[2:15]
I'll do my best in the farside chat and in game before that but I'll make it clear I'll be dropping off for a big chuck of Fri-Sun

cerberus_v6.66 [2:16 PM]
Got it

cerberus_v6.66 [2:56 PM]
Your first point isn't true, and you keep saying it snd I don't know if this is deliberate or not

[2:56]
Since we now know DGB could have coordinated with scum via TWIE, Farside could have been scum all along.

drixx [2:57 PM]
trying to get Farside to read me as open and well intentioned and seriously trying to sort her

[2:58]
scum pushing to mislynch town don't make obvious mistakes in their case

cerberus_v6.66 [2:59 PM]
DGB+Skybird=skybirds vote, Farside+TWIE+one other teammate=farsides...and okay. Just as long as it's deliberate

drixx [7:16 PM]
Mastin has basically declared us clear

[7:17]
she hasn't outright said it yet, but now that she says a shiro-RR team can't be both scum and that means we both knew MOI couldn't be killed, the obvious next logical step is to assume we're town

[7:17]
we may have walked the tightrope JUST right here.

[7:17]
we need to plan out our plan from here so we don't accidentally conftown anyone else and end up having to 1v1 someone we "cleared"

[7:18]
when you have the interest/time ... it might be something we want to whiteboard on a website whiteboard and talk through verbally even

[7:18]
I whiteboarded the last 4 days/nights of SMITE and I would have given anything to have someone to talk about things with

[7:18]
this is going to be harder

[7:18]
we need a lot of kills/lynches to happen and ideally we need to keep our only remaining partner alive so we don't have to win in a 3/4 man final day

[7:19]
we want to win on a 6 person final day ideally

cerberus_v6.66 [7:19 PM]
Yeah, it's pretty difficult

[7:19]
We have 3 kills before kylo

drixx [7:20 PM]
I know you hate me talking about SMITE, but just let me compare the situations

cerberus_v6.66 [7:20 PM]
Which will be mastin, moi, and someone else conftown

drixx [7:20 PM]
In SMITE I had three problems to deal with to get to the final day, and there are paralells here, so I think just summarizing might help get you thinking along the lines we need to

cerberus_v6.66 [7:20 PM]
We can keep random because he's somewhat neutralized without his partner to enable his powers, so he becomes equivalent to anyone else who is probtown right now.

[7:21]
And okies

drixx [7:21 PM]
1.) Imperium (Nacho + Tammy hydra) was a flipped town who roleblocked anyone who targeted them for the following 2 phases. Killing them would therefore rob me of my day vote steal/move abilities AND the following night's kill. So an untouchable conftown.

[7:22]
2.) Skybird was a re-director who I thought re-directed shots back at the originator (because of how she claimed). In reality she could re-direct to anyone BUT the originator, and it was randomized and not in her control.

[7:22]
3.) Serial Killer with BP was also in play

[7:22]
that last thing doesn't parallel our current situation EXCEPT that we can maybe pigeon hole farside into that position

[7:23]
and have her as the final mislynch

[7:23]
and I would work from final mislynch backwards to now, I think

cerberus_v6.66 [7:23 PM]
*nods

[7:23]
SS, us, A50

[7:23]
Who else is alive that day?

drixx [7:25 PM]
Farside, Shiro, Grapes?

[7:25]
Creature, Kraska, Farside being the lynch order I'd prefer to see

cerberus_v6.66 [7:26 PM]
We need one more

[7:26]
3 to lylo, the fourth one wins.

drixx [7:27 PM]
Shiro is the most lynchable with a possibility we could get Grapes lynched

[7:27]
simply because he's so low content and basically done nothing all game since my early sparring with him

cerberus_v6.66 [7:28 PM]
Shadow_Step
Almost50
Shiro
Farside22
Reasonably Rational (Cerberus v666 + Drixx)
grapes
mastin2
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lyncanfire)
MagnaofIllusion
TheFuzzylogic99
Creature
randomidget

[7:29]
So thr next three days we kill mastin and both gems you think?

drixx [7:33 PM]
seems like the only path

[7:34]
if Mastin ever puts us to ironclad town status we maybe keep her around?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:34 PM]
Probably highest EV play

cerberus_v6.66 [8:01 PM]
Shiro
Almost50
Farside22
grapes
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lyncanfire)
TheFuzzylogic99
Creature

[8:02]
So, that's the kynch pool

[8:02]
A50 is unlynchable

[8:02]
Grapes is nearly so.

[8:02]
Shiro/farside/kraska/fuzzy/creature

[8:03]
Once shiro, fuzzy, AND Creature are gone

[8:03]
Town will know shadow step must be scum

drixx [8:03 PM]
maybe

[8:04]
we plan to kill off the people who would be most engaged and remind people of the analysis

cerberus_v6.66 [8:04 PM]
True

[8:04]
But if someone remembers thst at the wrong moment in lylo

[8:05]
And it's not us

[8:05]
That should be game over.

drixx [8:05 PM]
if we can get to M/LYLO with SS also alive, the remaining people will be convinced we're town

[8:05]
we'll have convinced so many good and respected players

[8:05]
like ... I feel like A50 and Fuzzy will go with us basicaly at this point

[8:06]
Shiro probably would if we kept shiro around

cerberus_v6.66 [8:06 PM]
Fuzzy feels like a loose cannon man

[8:07]
I can't predict how he's going to react.

drixx [8:08 PM]
I hate to kill him though since he is in the mislynch pool

cerberus_v6.66 [8:09 PM]
Yeah we don't kill him sver

[8:09]
Likee, if we leave a gem alive, we kill grapes.

[8:10]
I just disagree that it's as clear cut as he simply will trust us.

drixx [8:13 PM]
there's so much that has been carefully laid out for us to survive endgame though

cerberus_v6.66 [8:13 PM]
Yeah

drixx [8:13 PM]
we can point to a consistent town approach plus info where us being scum makes no sense

cerberus_v6.66 [8:13 PM]
We should be unlynchable man

[8:13]
For any reason besides purest PoE

drixx [8:13 PM]
like ... the way we've played should be considered game throwing except that we've actively planned it out step by step

cerberus_v6.66 [8:13 PM]
As in, there are no other options

[8:13]
Well

[8:14]
We did make a mistake

[8:14]
Or rsther, didn't account for the consequences (thr remote detonation and skybird death )

[8:14]
But that just works to help clear us in the end

drixx [8:16 PM]
we knew about the leftover gem and what they could do and how they could ally with someone and kill them

[8:16]
and that's in the thread

[8:17]
so we can just point to that and be like "if we were scum, there's no way we would have done the yume kill and enabled someone we knew could kill Skybird to do so..."

cerberus_v6.66 [8:17 PM]
Yeah

drixx [8:17 PM]
like ... everything that defends us has been carefully gambited first in private PTs and then in the main thread with people backing us up

[8:17]
right from the start with us gambiting Titus

[8:17]
like ... if we pull this off ...

[8:17]
nobody will EVER trust us again

cerberus_v6.66 [8:18 PM]
That's okay. I never wanted to be trusted anyways.

drixx [8:20 PM]
yeah but like ... for awhile whenever we play in hydra, we'll be a policy lynch if we live the first couple of days

[8:20]
like ... look at this game. We've helped town tremendously

[8:20]
I mean ... it has all been with a viable plan to win in the end, but we've done a LOT of things that helped town

cerberus_v6.66 [8:20 PM]
Mhm

drixx [8:20 PM]
in fact ... it's sort of flattering that anyone even suspects us at this point

[8:21]
in any other game, any player with actions like ours would be firmly conftown and be getting protected and watched and shit

cerberus_v6.66 [8:21 PM]
Town should have this game wok right now, with all the people who are cleared

[8:21]
Lol

drixx [8:25 PM]
but our plans have mostly worked

[8:25]
SS looks like a super low probability to be scum because of the power level of the game and he would have to be a goon

[8:25]
and we are in the PoE pool but Mastin is close to clearing us

cerberus_v6.66 [8:26 PM]
Yeah

cerberus_v6.66 [8:31 PM]
Anyways, so yeah, ideally we go into lylo with a member of both PoE pools

[8:31]
One of kraska/farside and one of fuzzy/creature/shiro

[8:32]
Ss, A50, grapes, us, and one from each of those sets.

drixx [8:32 PM]
farside and shiro would be my choices to have alive

[8:33]
unless we can somehow keep creature alive for the easy win

cerberus_v6.66 [8:34 PM]
How do we get fuzzy lynched? He's not really on anyone's radar.

[8:34]
He's third, basically

[8:35]
Creature/kraska happen today/tomorrow

drixx [8:36 PM]
we could play the "there's no way Creature is that incompetent as to play scum that way. That's a townie who isn't double checking every answer like scum would" card

[8:37]
and then "reconsider" when we find ourselves in M/LYLO and to for him then

[8:37]
as a possible play

[8:37]
also ... what did you think of my farside post?

[8:37]
besides the mistake about her not being able to be groupscum

cerberus_v6.66 [8:38 PM]
Oh, it's good.

drixx [8:38 PM]
MS loading for you? I just tried to refresh and see if she responded and it's hanging

cerberus_v6.66 [8:40 PM]
Ms isn't loading

[8:40]
And zhe didn't respond all day

[8:40]
Even though she answered in thr main thread

[8:40]
Now it works

[8:41]
I lied. P

[8:41]
Still down

drixx [9:09 PM]
Farside gave an answer that was ... surprising

cerberus_v6.66 [9:11 PM]
Makes sense though.

drixx [9:12 PM]
would that sway town us?

cerberus_v6.66 [9:15 PM]
I don't know. town us would have believed she was probtown already, and would definitely believe it when we saw a town flip from creature

----- November 15th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [7:00 PM]
Not really sure?

[7:00]
about what we want to say before day end, if anything

[7:00]
it's a bit unfortunate that we're losing kraska rather than creature today

[7:01]
since it means we will ideally keep the rest of the lynches in the other pool

[7:01]
even though our pool is actually the one that could get some conftown faster at that point

[7:01]
(though there's no guarantee of scum in our pool, sooo)

[7:02]
I don't know if I screwed up by claiming our event specifically had people submit targets

[7:02]
rather tahn voting

[7:02]
I didn't know if kraska was going to be lynched

[7:02]
and if she lived until the next finale and swapped us with someone, a lie there would have got us lynched

drixx [7:02 PM]
The only other thing to say would have been that we asked Varsoon and he wouldn't answer

[7:02]
which is a thing you could still do

[7:03]
you could say that after Varsoon said in thread that it would depend on how the event was phrased you asked specifically if it was possible for a multi-voter to count as more points than expected and he said he couldn't answer

cerberus_v6.66 [7:03 PM]
hmm

[7:03]
true

[7:03]
there's still a tiny risk there

[7:03]
but it's gone since kraskas gonna be lynched today

drixx [7:03 PM]
Varsoon already said that he can't give a specific answer

cerberus_v6.66 [7:04 PM]
yeah, publicly

[7:04]
the risk would be becasuse of kraskas power again

[7:04]
which would allow someone else to ask him the question and get the real answer.

[7:04]
anyways, that does work

[7:04]
what's the value?

[7:04]
gives town more reason to lynch outside of our pool

[7:05]
increases risk to shadow, decreases risk to us

drixx [7:05 PM]
the reason to relay that "response" is because the logical place to go with that info is to posit that Skybird could have just voted twice and there's no missing points in the top and therefore the remaining scum are all in that other pool

[7:05]
basically the upside is trying to get us into endgame, and ideally we can keep SS as well

cerberus_v6.66 [7:06 PM]
I think we have to communicate the response

[7:07]
but NOT actually communicate the conclusion

[7:07]
unless we just communicate the response tomorrow

[7:07]
after MoI is dead

[7:07]
(which might not happen actually, because gems are allied tonight, so they can choose which of them is going to die)

drixx [7:08 PM]
better to relay the info today

cerberus_v6.66 [7:08 PM]
not sure it matters

[7:08]
ugh

[7:08]
MoI isn't going to die tonight

[7:09]
we can finally get that alliance with random

[7:09]
but he's going to die tonight if we shoot at MoI

drixx [7:10 PM]
I thought MoI and grapes are allying?

[7:10]
I suggested that MoI should ally with us after he asked Grapes to ally

cerberus_v6.66 [7:10 PM]
random and MoI are allied today

[7:11]
which means they will get to choose which of them will die if they get shot

[7:11]
it also means that if they end the day voting the same person, they roleblock that person

drixx [7:11 PM]
so where do we shoot tonight?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:12 PM]
well

drixx [7:12 PM]
I suppose shooting Mastin allows us to make the argument that we obviously wouldn't have shot at MoI since we knew it would fail (and scum team already had one failed kill)

cerberus_v6.66 [7:12 PM]
I don't really know where we shoot

drixx [7:13 PM]
and also allows us to argue that MoI was left alive instead of shot again because he suspects us and we're hard to get lynched but if the scum team can manage to get us mislynched that's a big win for them

cerberus_v6.66 [7:13 PM]
we can shoot at random

[7:13]
?

[7:13]
leaves mastin alive

[7:13]
has the same end result

[7:13]
and if they're told which of the two of them was targeted, that's useful information

[7:13]
however, we know nothing of randoms role. :/

drixx [7:13 PM]
like ... Mastin dead is killing someone who think we're town and leaving MoI in play looks like someone trying to frame us up

cerberus_v6.66 [7:14 PM]
sure

[7:14]
I have a fear that farside is legitimately anti-town btw, with that 3p win con thing

drixx [7:15 PM]
did you see the last thing I said to her?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:15 PM]
her role is so insanely strong

drixx [7:15 PM]
that's part of why I told MoI that we know he has the same hammer ability we have

cerberus_v6.66 [7:15 PM]
1x lynchproof, reflexively roleblock, multi-voting, an investigative, etc

drixx [7:16 PM]
and pointed out that CGs plus Earth having that power has to be in place for a reason

cerberus_v6.66 [7:16 PM]
yeah

drixx [7:16 PM]
and then I go on to say if we posit a town!Farside, that means scum out there who can evade a lynch

[7:16]
but really the point is to lay the groundwork for a farside lynch later

cerberus_v6.66 [7:16 PM]
unfortunately, the farside mislynch is only viable the day before lylo

[7:17]
if we want to talk about the hammering thing

[7:17]
I mean, we can still lynch her etc

[7:17]
but the whole urgency of having to do it

[7:17]
is going to fall on the wrong day

drixx [7:17 PM]
It just keeps that door open for us if we need it

cerberus_v6.66 [7:17 PM]
and without kraska, it will leave us as the last top voter

drixx [7:17 PM]
while appearing not to

cerberus_v6.66 [7:17 PM]
yeah

[7:18]
anyways, just a little concerned that she's just gonna steal the game.

drixx [7:18 PM]
that's why you need to post you asked Varsoon and he couldn't answer

cerberus_v6.66 [7:19 PM]
hmm

[7:19]
I suppose so

[7:19]
I hate lying.

[7:19]
^^

drixx [7:20 PM]
we're scum ... it is by definition the entirety of everything we have done this game

cerberus_v6.66 [7:20 PM]
pfft

[7:20]

drixx [7:20 PM]
even when we've told the truth, we did so in order to achieve the opposite result of what we implied we want

[7:21]
so even when we've told the truth we've been lying

cerberus_v6.66 [7:22 PM]
pfft

[7:23]
technicalities

[7:23]
I"m really entertained by what the "guilty" on us was

drixx [7:23 PM]
a gambit

cerberus_v6.66 [7:23 PM]
since our role actually had two things that would have triggered it

drixx [7:24 PM]
which is why I just sarcastically dismissed MoI about it

cerberus_v6.66 [7:24 PM]
and both of them actually make us look better

drixx [7:24 PM]
or did I miss some actual guilty that they followed through?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:24 PM]
since scum already had a roleblocker flip, and the hammer thing was done in the most town way possible

[7:24]
umm no actual guilty

[7:24]
just the NC thing

[7:25]
about how our role had an ability to negatively affect other slots

drixx [7:25 PM]
If it comes a time we have to really seriously defend ourselves, we have a strong position to do so

[7:26]
the totality of things that we knew just doesn't line up with sane scum play ;p

cerberus_v6.66 [7:32 PM]
okay, so

[7:32]
I just asked varsoon stuff

[7:32]
like the question we said we'd ask

[7:33]
and the answer he'd give to skybird, had she asked about double voting in our event

[7:33]
if we say he couldn't tell us

[7:33]
it's possible someone could catch us

[7:33]
we need the exact right wa of putting his response

[7:33]
because if his response is anything like "it depends on the exact sort of voting power used"

[7:34]
which was my default response

drixx [7:34 PM]
so let's just actually ask him

[7:34]
it's our event

cerberus_v6.66 [7:34 PM]
then our natural follow-up is to ask how skybird's power in particular would react

[7:34]
I did

[7:34]
already

[7:34]
that's wht i'm tellikng you

[7:34]
he told me no.

[7:34]
skybird could not have double voted

[7:34]
and if skybird had asked him

[7:34]
he would have told her

[7:35]
"Your ability only allows you to gain extra voting power towards lynches, not towards Event effects such as this one."

[7:35]
since her flip is known, if ANYONE delves that deep down the rabbit hole

[7:35]
they'll know that it was possible for us to have found out

drixx [7:35 PM]
the only way we would be "caught" is if some other double voter asks Varsoon, and even then we have two outs: we're not a multi-voter so Varsoon couldn't tell us

cerberus_v6.66 [7:35 PM]
no

drixx [7:35 PM]
and it's possible Skybird could when they couldn't

cerberus_v6.66 [7:35 PM]
untrue

[7:35]
because I like

[7:35]
literally just asked him how skybirds role would have kinteracted

[7:36]
because it's a publicly known role

[7:36]
and he todl me

[7:36]
I specified asking what he would have said

[7:36]
if skybird hadn't been part of my team

[7:36]
so like

[7:36]
someone else could ask him the exact same question

[7:36]
now, WILL someone else ask him that?

drixx [7:36 PM]
but did he tell us because we were on a scum team together and thus telling us something about a hypothetical like that doesn't impact the game or any gambits we might choose to run?

cerberus_v6.66 [7:36 PM]
ONLY if we lead them towards asking it

drixx [7:37 PM]
answering a question like that to someone else would have a large impact on the game

cerberus_v6.66 [7:37 PM]
umm

[7:37]
no

[7:37]
because her role is publicly known

drixx [7:37 PM]
it would tell them and through them the game that there must be a scum in a small pool, while otherwise that is not the case

[7:38]
I feel like I need to try and talk to Varsoon in real time and tell him I want to run a gambit but am concerned

cerberus_v6.66 [7:38 PM]
I'm talking to him in real time

[7:38]
lol

[7:38]
I'm chatting with him in skype right now man

drixx [7:38 PM]
because giving that answer to anyone not on the scum team would be influincing the game

cerberus_v6.66 [7:38 PM]
I disagree

drixx [7:39 PM]
right now there is no way for people to be SURE there's an unaccounted for vote from the event results

cerberus_v6.66 [7:39 PM]
they could ask.

drixx [7:39 PM]
if he tells them skybird could not have counted as 1 point in beach-a-palooza, that gives the town a HUGE PoE boost

cerberus_v6.66 [7:39 PM]
of course they don't know if there is any scum slot that had a power that allowed them to increase their influence on events

drixx [7:40 PM]
Rule #1 of good modding: never say anything that can influence the outcome of the game.

cerberus_v6.66 [7:40 PM]
[7:39:38 PM] Varsoon: Oh, okay, then just
[7:39:44 PM] Varsoon: If you asked me about any flipped role
[7:39:54 PM] Varsoon: I'd tell you how that role works.

drixx [7:40 PM]
by all means please feel free to extend my opinion

cerberus_v6.66 [7:40 PM]
[7:40:15 PM] Varsoon: So if you asked "Does Skybird's double vote allow for double voting in Events that allow vote submission?"
[7:40:16 PM] Varsoon: I'd say
[7:40:41 PM] Varsoon: "Skybird's double vote exists solely for the purpose of submitting votes for lynches in the game thread and could not be used towards Events."

drixx [7:41 PM]
if he tells a town or gem that she could not have doubled her contribution to that event, then it has a huge impact on the win proability

cerberus_v6.66 [7:41 PM]
(town is probably not going to ask)

[7:41]
[7:41:06 PM] Varsoon: If you asked, "In general, would extra voting powers allow players to submit extra votes for Events?"
[7:41:10 PM] Varsoon: I'd say
[7:41:39 PM] Varsoon: "It highly depends on how the role and event are written."

drixx [7:41 PM]
irrelevant

cerberus_v6.66 [7:42 PM]
it's the fact that her role is flipped

[7:42]
that means he'll tell them how it functioned

[7:42]
*shrug*

drixx [7:42 PM]
oh well

cerberus_v6.66 [7:42 PM]
AGAIN

drixx [7:42 PM]
enjoy DnD. I'm going to eat and get a little more unpacking done and then catch up on WestWorld.

cerberus_v6.66 [7:42 PM]
oh

[7:42]
you're moved into the new place?

drixx [7:42 PM]
I think he's in the wrong because he's cutting off a gambit

cerberus_v6.66 [7:42 PM]
naw, he's applying his rules equally

drixx [7:43 PM]
only a complete and total moron would run a gambit when the mod will happily tell town that it's a lie

cerberus_v6.66 [7:43 PM]
doesn't matter that it happens to mess with your gambit

[7:43]
well no

[7:43]
untrue

[7:43]
here's the thing

[7:43]
the answer he would give us

[7:43]
if we asked about double voters in general

[7:43]
is that it would depend on how the role adn event are written

[7:43]
the problem is that we're too thorough

[7:43]
and we'd follow up. :-/

[7:43]
so we can't get away with lying about it

----- November 17th -----
cerberus_v6.66 [2:38 PM]
So

[2:38]
I just realized that because skybird was allied with yume

[2:39]
Who clearly trusted her....our unique information about MoI in particular doesn't clear us in particular as much as I'd like it to.

----- November 19th -----
drixx [12:14 PM]
Shadow is right, as bad as it is to kill in the PoE pool

cerberus_v6.66 [12:14 PM]
Yeah. :/

[12:14]
Town power level is absurd yo.

[12:14]
They had TWO roleblockers

[12:15]
One was loud.

[12:15]
As in, their ally knew they'd be roleblocked

[12:15]
We didn't even have a targetable roleblock except through the friggin traitor

[12:15]
Who could only do it ONCE PER PERSON.

[12:20]
This is btw ke expressing a little doubt about farside's role.

drixx [12:20 PM]
lol

[12:21]
well ... I think we can defend ourselves pretty easily

[12:21]
the kills just don't line up with our play

[12:21]
especially the Farside kill

cerberus_v6.66 [12:22 PM]
Yeah

[12:22]
Is it TOO perfect though?

[12:22]
Idk

[12:22]
Lol

[12:22]
Like, the actions scum have taken don't make sense with the knowledge ae have, and the kills made don't make sense with the lines of defense we've used.

[12:23]
To a rational actor, nothing about this game makes sense if we're scum, right?

drixx [12:40 PM]
Yeah ... that has been the gameplan in my mind all along

[12:40]
interestingly enough ... it's the posts you made that I wouldn't have that just make it absolutely make no sense

cerberus_v6.66 [12:41 PM]
Yeah. Same, but I wanted to have that extra uncertainty of two POE pools.

cerberus_v6.66 [3:46 PM]
I'm gonna use the free weekend and see exactly how badly my computer runs overwatch

[3:46]
this will be fun

[3:46]

----- November 21st -----
drixx [8:36 PM]
I'm so fucking tired of our kills failing

cerberus_v6.66 [8:36 PM]
Yep

[8:37]
I think we might be even more fucked now.

[8:38]
Like, I don't know if it's possible a sequence of kills to exist that results in us winning.

[8:38]
We need fuzzy to shoot town for us.

cerberus_v6.66 [8:47 PM]
We need 7 town deaths to win.

[8:47]
Fuzzy obviouslu won't shoot himself.

[8:47]
Or a gem

[8:48]
Shiro/creature/A50 is his pool.

[8:48]
That doesn't hurt us

[8:48]
A50 is the only one he can shoot who will allow us to win.

drixx [8:53 PM]
read my post in scum chat

cerberus_v6.66 [8:54 PM]
Already did.

drixx [8:55 PM]
Fuzzy shooting in the lynch pool of 4 doesn't help us

[8:55]
it will require us to somehow get Grapes or Almost50 lynched

cerberus_v6.66 [8:57 PM]
My point is that his shot doesn't actually help us

[8:57]
Unless he shoots a50

[8:58]
Who is someone wed have trouble getting lynched

drixx [8:58 PM]
Yeah I'm making the same point.

cerberus_v6.66 [8:58 PM]
If he shoots even one of our mislynch targets

[8:58]
Then it means one of us MUST die

drixx [8:58 PM]
still can't win

cerberus_v6.66 [8:58 PM]
In order for the game to reach a state where we could win

drixx [8:59 PM]
either SS or us would have to win a 1v1 against Grapes or A50 in a 3 man lylo

[8:59]
I suppose we could MAYBE win a 1v1 against grapes

[8:59]
would be seriously gigantically dependant upon who the third person is

[8:59]
farside gave an opening

cerberus_v6.66 [9:00 PM]
What opening?

[9:00]
She confirmed that creature did not send in the kill

drixx [9:00 PM]
no kill happened

cerberus_v6.66 [9:00 PM]
And that his ability should have been stopped by snark but wasn't

drixx [9:00 PM]
she stopped creature's action

cerberus_v6.66 [9:00 PM]
Oh

drixx [9:01 PM]
1+1 = 2

cerberus_v6.66 [9:01 PM]
Yeah yeah never mind

[9:01]
Sorry

drixx [9:01 PM]
also it takes Kraska's last words out of immediate attention

cerberus_v6.66 [9:01 PM]
Very much in a fuck this game mood right now

[9:01]
Actually

[9:01]
Her roleblock probably can't stop the scum kill

[9:02]
Because her reflexive roleblock doesnt

[9:02]
Which is why she's not already voting creature

[9:02]
She knows what she stopped wasn't the scum kill.

drixx [9:02 PM]
I considered just waving the white flag but I'd rather not be banned for gamethrowing

[9:02]
but only because I want to run some games

cerberus_v6.66 [9:02 PM]
Yeah

[9:02]
I just want to shoot the ges

[9:02]
Gems

[9:02]
And make sure their faction loses too.

[9:04]
And I guess I'm wrong

drixx [9:04 PM]
there's one way we could MAYBE play this

cerberus_v6.66 [9:04 PM]
Since varsoon told ss that farside is how his kill was stopped

drixx [9:05 PM]
we could come out and lay out our play from start to finish and make a narrative

cerberus_v6.66 [9:05 PM]
I have no desire to plan right now. Feel free to give your suggestion, but I only want to bitch.

drixx [9:06 PM]
we can then point at the POE pools from Beach-a-Palooza and say that the simplest explanation (since we aren't scum and Kraska wasn't) is that either Farside is scum (requires lots of assumptions) or Skybird could simply double her vote for that event (we know skybird could double vote, simple explanation).

[9:06]
THAT means we have a small PoE pool

[9:07]
and if we can kill MoI we could MAYBE get Random lynched by pointing out that the gigantic masonry + Mastin doesn't make sense

[9:07]
we can also point out that the beach-a-palooza event would reveal a scum's fake claim, so the game's setup dictates that there COULD be a traitor in the Crystal Gems, and the traitor simply had their fake claim shown to the team.

[9:07]
and maybe get a random lynch that way

[9:07]
but that's about the best I can think of atm

[9:08]
At some point we're going to have to lay out everything. What we've done, what we knew and when we knew it

cerberus_v6.66 [9:08 PM]
Town already knows.

drixx [9:09 PM]
you and I both know that most of the players left haven't really kept up and have forgotten tons of shit

cerberus_v6.66 [9:09 PM]
The gems KNOW the detals

drixx [9:09 PM]
there's no way to rationally view our play as scum

cerberus_v6.66 [9:09 PM]
And shoulda put things together

drixx [9:09 PM]
like ... we intentionally set out to play such that in all ways we would evaluate as town

cerberus_v6.66 [9:10 PM]
Farside might be getting herself lynched btw

[9:10]
By deliberately roleblocking a claimed investigative

[9:10]
I mean, probably not because fuck us

[9:10]
But yeah.

drixx [9:12 PM]
you should ask random what he thinks of Farside coming out of the gate with a block on an investigative

cerberus_v6.66 [9:13 PM]
I'm not posting until like wednesday.

[9:13]
Or maybe tomorrow

[9:13]
Idk

[9:13]
Well see how I feel when I wake up.

[9:13]
There's nothing fun about this right now, and I'm not going to deal with it until it seems enjoyable again.

drixx [9:16 PM]
it's just ... that's a question you would ask more so than me

[9:16]
I tend to sit and watch things like that play out

cerberus_v6.66 [9:16 PM]
Yep

[9:16]
And I wouldn't ask that right now as town

[9:17]
Or maybe I would

[9:17]
I don't know

drixx [9:17 PM]
I think you would ask Random

[9:17]
because Random is a gem and by definition viewed as a mason in this game

[9:17]
so he's a safe person to point out the issue to and ask if you're being hyperparanoid

cerberus_v6.66 [9:18 PM]
....just post as RR and sign as me.

[9:18]
I'm going to watch episode 7 of westworld, and then probably go to sleep.

drixx [9:18 PM]
You might even spice it up by pointing out that we allied with Farside and asked her to explain her actions and thinking and instead of trying to justify and defend (as one would expect of scum), she said she had a fun role and wanted to enjoy it.

cerberus_v6.66 [9:22 PM]
I'm going to watch episode 7 of westworld, and then probably go to sleep. <<

drixx [9:23 PM]

----- November 22nd -----
drixx [11:21 AM]
Xykfu was the leftover turned Crystal Gem right?

cerberus_v6.66 [11:22 AM]
Yea

[11:23]
Why(

[11:26]
Shadow wants us to talk to shiro about a tfl lynch

drixx [11:29 AM]
I'm making a post

[11:29]
I'll post the draft in our PT for you to read

cerberus_v6.66 [11:30 AM]
Thanks

drixx [12:22 PM]
draft posted

[12:22]
it

[12:22]
it's LONG

cerberus_v6.66 [12:22 PM]
Lol k.

drixx [12:25 PM]
how would we convince shiro to hop on a TFL lynch?

cerberus_v6.66 [12:27 PM]
Not sure.

[12:32]
Where's the draft?

drixx [12:32 PM]
in our hydra PT

cerberus_v6.66 [12:33 PM]
Yeah I just realized I had never posted there under my name.

cerberus_v6.66 [12:41 PM]
Draft should include the twie "grapes was shot at N1" thing

[12:42]
Which has two counters

[12:43]
1) we know dgb could have controlled the shot, and thus even if TWIE were honest, it doesn't clear grapes because dgb could have made the shot go elsewhere.

drixx [12:43 PM]
Can you like ... quote my post and add that in where you would put it?

[12:43]
because I'm a little lightheaded atm and I honestly don't have any idea exactly how to express that or where to put it

cerberus_v6.66 [12:44 PM]
2) TWIE waa scum and his information is obviously untrustworthy, and it's VERY reasonable for scum to use that opportunity to falsely clear one of their members

[12:45]
All it takes is a rolecop on NC.

[12:45]
And it should go where you talk about grapes?

cerberus_v6.66 [1:31 PM]
Okay, so

[1:31]
Your draft

[1:31]
Is that for a post of infodump in to random?

[1:31]
Or what?

[1:31]
I'm not sure what our objective is with it.

drixx [1:31 PM]
ummm ... like half the posts today have posited us as scum

[1:33]
I'm basically trying to push the idea that Skybird probably was a full point in the voting and make it look like when I got to listing us as a possible explanation for the vote point totals I ended up stream of consciousness writing to point out all the reasons that we are obviously town

[1:34]
the mention of SU1 is slight AtE intentionally. Reminding people that we had a 100% win proability in that game and squandered it

cerberus_v6.66 [1:34 PM]
Every post is going to posit us as scum

[1:34]
For the rest of the game

[1:34]
Because we're in a 2 person PoE pool, potentially

drixx [1:34 PM]
well that post points out a lot of reasons to think we're not

cerberus_v6.66 [1:35 PM]
Yeah ,I know

[1:35]
Maybe I'm too aware

drixx [1:35 PM]
except if people go "hrm... maybe they would do ONE of those things to avoid people realizing that info they knew was comprimised, but not ALL of them" then they are likely to reassess and may simply adjust their bias to thinking that skybird counted as a full point

cerberus_v6.66 [1:35 PM]
But it feels like the first reaction should be " why the hell are you guys focusing so much on why you're not scum, nobody is even trying to lynch you right now?"

[1:36]
Possibly.

drixx [1:36 PM]
going to add this in to the skybird thing. "And skybird being able to be a full point kind of makes sense as a way to blunt the power of our event since us being able to create POE pools so early in the game was pretty OP"

drixx [1:42 PM]
new draft is up

[1:47]
[15:44] <cerberusv6.66> We learned about xkfyu the day he killed skybird

[1:47]
[15:44] <cerberusv6.66> Not the day before

[1:47]
[15:45] <cerberusv6.66> Otherwise we'd argue she wouldn't have even allied with him, much less having us set her up to be shot

[1:47]
[15:45] <cerberusv6.66> But we obviouslu learned about it before yume was shot.

[1:47]
[15:46] <cerberusv6.66> Also, 2 isn't zomething I'd ever bring up

[1:47]
[15:46] <cerberusv6.66> Sorry, wrong place, please copy

[1:47]
[15:47] <Drixx> better we bring it up than Shiro

[1:47]
plus it's right in line with stream of consciousness

cerberus_v6.66 [1:48 PM]
Well

[1:48]
I gues

[1:48]
It just doesn't actually present a reason to townread us.

[1:48]
Her townreading us doesn't mean shit

[1:48]
Us having a plan doesn't mean shit

drixx [1:48 PM]
A50 told us 11 and 1/2 days before Yume was killed

cerberus_v6.66 [1:48 PM]
Yeah

[1:49]
But sure, it's stream of consciousness

[1:49]
But for the people who want to lynch us

[1:49]
They'll just pick out that part

[1:49]
And discredit it

drixx [1:49 PM]
Sure ... but Shiro can confirm that we had an ability that could have conditionally cleared or guiltied people AND that we wanted to copy it and have titus plan out how to use us as bait while another player used the ability to do the work

[1:49]
except it can't be discredited because it's all true

[1:49]
100%

[1:50]
1.) We knew that Xykfu was a leftover who could choose to join the Crystal gems, via Almost50, early the day Xykfu used his event to kill skybird. We knew that his plan was to ally with scumspects and tell them he was a 3p who could join either side and try to get them to admit to being scum so he could kill them with his event. We knew his event had a stress requirement. A50 told us like 11 and

[1:50]
1/2 real time days before Yume was killed.

[1:50]
1a.) Why is that important?

[1:50]
changes to that section

cerberus_v6.66 [1:51 PM]
It can be discredited because none of it says ANYTHING about our alignment.

drixx [1:51 PM]
sure it does

[1:51]
no one thing individually

[1:51]
one thing you could say we acted because we had info and didn't want anyone to suspect scum knew

[1:51]
but this is a whole long list of shit

[1:51]
hammering SC

cerberus_v6.66 [1:51 PM]
Also, I think you should say +2 stress requirement

drixx [1:52 PM]
killing Yume and having Skybird (a super powerful team member) put at risk

cerberus_v6.66 [1:52 PM]
Not only did we Hamer Sc

[1:52]
We were the fulcrum of his lynch

drixx [1:52 PM]
Having a way to get guilties mechanically and working with Titus to make it work better

[1:52]
Knowing that MoI wouldn't die

cerberus_v6.66 [1:52 PM]
Yep

[1:52]
Okay, so, when do we want topost this

drixx [1:52 PM]
like you put it all together and it becomes absurd to posit scum making those moves if informed ahead of time, which we were

cerberus_v6.66 [1:53 PM]
Becauss

[1:53]
Hm

drixx [1:53 PM]
I was going to post it a couple hours ago

cerberus_v6.66 [1:53 PM]
The problem is that IF it's all taken as fct

[1:53]
*fact*

[1:53]
After our next 3 kills...why are we still alive

[1:53]
Right now we have all these conftown to deal with

drixx [1:54 PM]
because I "slipped" and revealed that titus stole our ability

[1:55]
There was a possibilty of getting that same ability given to a 2nd person and we asked Titus to help co-ordinate using it to get through the PoE pools faster and find scum using us as bait while the other person with the ability would not be outed. Shiro can, again, confirm this. Ask him about my initial reaction to Titus stealing our role (or make a note to read yourself post game) if you want

[1:55]
a laugh.

[1:55]
added that last bit on to make it stand out a bit more that Titus stole something from us

[1:55]
an emphasis on we HAD a role

[1:56]
then if someone asks I can be like "shit, I shouldn't have said anything about that"

cerberus_v6.66 [1:56 PM]
Lol.

[1:56]
Go ahead man

[1:56]
Do yo shiz

drixx [1:56 PM]
and if we get pressed about still being alive later I can be like "I slipped and revealed Titus stole our role ... what threat are we mechanically?"

[1:56]
plus ... we're not investigatively cleared or anything

cerberus_v6.66 [1:56 PM]
Yeah

drixx [1:57 PM]
so a scum team who desperately needs 4 mislynches needs to keep us around

cerberus_v6.66 [1:57 PM]
True

drixx [1:57 PM]
by the way, if this pays off and we somehow pull this out ...

cerberus_v6.66 [1:57 PM]
Especially knowing that a multivoter can just kill us

[1:57]
And currently wants to.

[1:57]
Meh

[1:57]
I stopped caring about that a week ago

[1:57]
Or longer

drixx [1:58 PM]
this would constitute a pretty good mastermind win if we pull it off

[1:58]
SirCakez and DGB both literally walked up to the gibbet and put their heads in the noose for town

cerberus_v6.66 [1:59 PM]
Dgb more than sc.

[1:59]
He just had a bad entry

[1:59]
And wasn't able to fix it fast enough before everyone fixated

[1:59]
She literally scum claimed

drixx [1:59 PM]
Something about the assumptions being made struck me as off, so I asked Varsoon whether someone who was able to double vote could have doubled their point contribution to our Beach-a-palooza event. His answer was slightly less useless than what he said in thread. He said it would depend on the role.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:00 PM]
And used rhe exact same defense for it that she had apparently used as a traitor before.

[2:00]
I dislike thar beginning btw

[2:01]
For rhe same reason as before

drixx [2:01 PM]
well ... let's clean it up

[2:01]
how exactly can I phrase that?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:01 PM]
Idk how to clear it up

drixx [2:01 PM]
remember this is ME claiming to have asked the question

[2:01]
not YOU

cerberus_v6.66 [2:01 PM]
It's the jumpingb off point

[2:01]
Yeah

drixx [2:01 PM]
it is true that YOU would ask a follow up question

drixx [2:02 PM]
me ... I would just be frustrated and assume Varsoon would not give me a useful answer

[2:02]
which is why I said "slightly less useless..."

cerberus_v6.66 [2:02 PM]
Yeah

[2:02]
Fair enough

drixx [2:03 PM]
the idea here is that I see people forming scum pools based upon the PoE from our event, but (implicitly) I know I'm town and I believe Farside isn't scum, so I know the PoE has to be wrong ... so I ask Varsoon

[2:03]
that's where I'm going with that start

cerberus_v6.66 [2:03 PM]
I was considering adding the part where it depends on the role or event

drixx [2:03 PM]
and I want all of that implied and drawn out later in the post as part of what needs to look like legitimate stream of consciousness

cerberus_v6.66 [2:03 PM]
But I think that answer is more likely to prompt you to ask for details

[2:03]
Since it's our event

[2:03]
If it's role based, you could easily assume he wouldn't tell you more

[2:03]
We want that segue to be as inconsequential as possible

[2:04]
So people just skim over ir.

[2:04]
And nobody questions it

drixx [2:05 PM]
Something about the assumptions being made in forming potential scum teams struck me as off, so I asked Varsoon whether someone who was able to double vote could have doubled their point contribution to our Beach-a-palooza event. His answer was slightly less useless than what he said in thread. He said it would depend on the role.

cerberus_v6.66 [2:05 PM]
Is there a formatting solution?

[2:05]
A way to draw their eyes to the bullet points?

drixx [2:06 PM]
I could change the numbering into a list so they are offset

[2:06]
would draw the eyes

[2:08]
new draft and formatting posted

cerberus_v6.66 [2:12 PM]
Sure

[2:12]
No glaring fkaws

drixx [2:12 PM]
there's intentional mistakes in there

[2:12]
perfection is the enemy as scum

cerberus_v6.66 [2:12 PM]
Which mistakes?

drixx [2:13 PM]
typos or missing words

cerberus_v6.66 [2:13 PM]
Oh yeah

drixx [2:13 PM]
the "slip" in revealing info about us that wasn't known and makes us look vanilla

[2:13]
since we would want to be able to draw fire realistically as town

[2:13]
etc...

cerberus_v6.66 [2:13 PM]
Yeah

[2:14]
Okay, let's look at current game context

[2:14]
Does that post make sense at the current game state

[2:15]
And with what people are talking about?

drixx [2:15 PM]
I would say it does because people are positing us as scum (and leaving out grapes because they haven't realized he's not actually cleared)

cerberus_v6.66 [2:15 PM]
Has anything else been said since day start/towards the end if yesterday that you would want to address?

drixx [2:16 PM]
Kraska's last message pointed the finger at us

[2:16]
which obviously is a reason I would be thinking through these things

[2:16]
Implicitly the start of the post has an unstated "We're town so Kraska and others are missing something"

cerberus_v6.66 [2:19 PM]
Okay

[2:19]
Other wall

[2:19]
What do we have to tell random?

[2:19]
We need to inform him of A50s powers

[2:20]
Him and shiros claims

[2:20]
Are the main things we know that everyone else doesn't

drixx [2:21 PM]
should I post this or hold it for later and make adjustments for context later?

cerberus_v6.66 [2:21 PM]
You can post it,l

drixx [2:22 PM]
I have to go read A50s and Shiro's claims again because my summary notes are on a dead computer

cerberus_v6.66 [2:22 PM]
A post to random filling him in on stuff to tell MoI should come soon thereafter though.

[2:22]
Gotcha

[2:23]
Too bad A50 is with creature

[2:23]
Otherwise we could plot for how to take advantage of A50s power during the finale.

drixx [2:24 PM]
P-Edit: A50 knew about Xykfu's ability and plan a day earlier than we did and therefore it seems super unlikely that a scum team with him on it would have allowed any of their members to ally with Xykfu. That's our biggest reason for viewing him as likely town.

[2:24]
a question was asked about why A50 is viewed as town

[2:24]
the obvious counter to that is that stress wasn't high enough, which we can let someone ELSE point out

[2:26]
that way if we have to 1v1 A50 later, we can point back to it and go "ahhh... the scum team had skybird ally with xykfu knowing the stress wouldn't let him kill her so she would be "cleared" if A50 ever flipped" or some such

[2:26]
that p-edit okay?

[2:26]
and also ... I'll make a summary post from memory for random

cerberus_v6.66 [2:29 PM]
^^

[2:33]
Thatll let me correct you later!

[2:33]
But random is almost never goimg to lynch us.

[2:33]
As he said in the bebop game....he finds it impossible to scumread me.

drixx [5:58 PM]
There's nothing polite at all about cherry picking something that let's you make a post that comes across like someone trying to intentionally be an asshole wrote it.

[5:58]
Of course SU1 has no bearing on this game's current state. I didn't say it did. I just said that I'm still bothered by what happened in SU1, and you weren't in that game but several of the other people still alive were. We've now busted our ass in SU1 and SU2 to get to what we know was 100% win probability in SU1 until egregious misplay snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. I outlined in that

[5:58]
post you cherry picked from why we have reason to believe we're in that position now. Damn straight I'm going to remind people who played through that gutting loss about it so it doesn't happen again.

[5:58]
So, contrary to your assertion, SU1 actually does matter to this game, but only as an object lesson. And I never for a second said or implied anything else about it.

[5:58]
~Drixx

cerberus_v6.66 [6:03 PM]
I approve

----- November 23rd -----
drixx [4:37 PM]
Mastin seems convinced we're town

cerberus_v6.66 [4:38 PM]
yep

[4:38]
I wish I had argued about shooting farside. :-/

[4:39]
I was going to argue that we didn't know if her roleblock could stop our kill, since she had said her reflexive one wouldn't.

drixx [4:39 PM]
but she roleblocked Creature...

[4:39]
she opened the day calling him out

cerberus_v6.66 [4:39 PM]
but said fuck it, whatever, it'll be fine as long as the kill goes through, and she said her reflexive roleblock wouldn't stop it.

[4:39]
but of course she's fucking incompetent and doesn't understand her own role

[4:39]
and flipped the two

[4:40]
it seems

[4:40]
I mena, she hasnt stated it

drixx [4:40 PM]
I don't even know what to say about a role that can't be lynched and reflexively blocks night kills

[4:40]
what

[4:40]
the

[4:40]
fuck

[4:40]
Varsoon is going to have a really heated converastion with me after this game is over

[4:40]
even if we pull out the win

cerberus_v6.66 [4:40 PM]
but her calling out creature means she thought the no kill would have meant her block was proof he was scum

drixx [4:40 PM]
I won't address it in the post-game thread but he's going to hear from me I think

cerberus_v6.66 [4:41 PM]
but apparently she was just wrong

[4:41]
and it's her reflexive thing that stops factionals

[4:41]
not her targeted ability

[4:41]
(making her bp)

[4:41]
bp+ascetic

drixx [4:41 PM]
I've said that her phrasing swayed me, but pointed out in several places that you don't agree with me

[4:41]
you have grounds to go after her

cerberus_v6.66 [4:41 PM]
creature flip makes it rife for us to go after her

[4:41]
he'll flip town

drixx [4:42 PM]
she's a lynchproof, reflexive kill blocking noisy ascetic ... really?

[4:42]
ideally we want fuzzy today

cerberus_v6.66 [4:42 PM]
then we can point out that it doesn't actualy make sense for her to think that her roleblock stopped him

[4:42]
sure

[4:42]
also

drixx [4:42 PM]
I was hoping MoI would more strongly go after him for saying "fuck off, I'm not going to do what you say"

cerberus_v6.66 [4:42 PM]
thinking like town us

[4:42]
we'd want A50 to ally with someone

[4:42]
who we know has good powers

drixx [4:42 PM]
but town us would be after farside with the info we have

cerberus_v6.66 [4:42 PM]
we DO have a secure channel

[4:42]
to talk to A50

[4:43]
in our mind

[4:43]
because shiro is probtown

drixx [4:43 PM]
we would want A50 to ally with us so we can get rid of Farside

cerberus_v6.66 [4:43 PM]
calculated risk

[4:43]
that's what scum us want

[4:43]
here's my thought

[4:43]
we need to find out eactly what shiro's power copying thing can copy

[4:43]
if A50, shiro, and fuzzy ally tomorrow

drixx [4:43 PM]
we want it to be A50, Shiro and us I think

cerberus_v6.66 [4:44 PM]
we could theoretically get town to shoot themselves a shitload

drixx [4:44 PM]
yeah that would be hilarious

cerberus_v6.66 [4:44 PM]
the problem is it's scummy as fuck for us to want ot e allied with A50

[4:44]
we have no mechanical reason for it

[4:44]
and we'll konw that shiro, if he lives, can talk to A50 tomorrow

[4:45]
so we can coordinate with A50, so there's no reason for us to be in an alliacne with either of them

cerberus_v6.66 [4:51 PM]
*sigh*I don't think there's any set of people who we could get fuzzy to kill

[4:51]
that would be helpful to over overall

[4:51]
it would just PoE us SUPER fast

[4:52]
*to us overall*

cerberus_v6.66 [5:51 PM]
Laying the ground work for mechanical optimization

[5:51]
which should secure us as town even more firmly in shiro and random's minds

----- November 24th -----
drixx [2:34 PM]
[16:34] <Drixx> A50 made a post where he said anyone with a brain should be hard town reading us

[2:34]
[16:34] <Drixx> which is nice

[2:34]
[16:34] <Drixx> although his scumspects, in order, are Creatire -> Fuzzy -> Shadow

[2:34]
[16:34] <cerberusv6.66> yeah

[2:34]
[16:34] <cerberusv6.66> his reasoning is bad

[2:34]
[16:34] <Drixx> and he thinks Farside is cleared by no kill

[2:34]
[16:34] <cerberusv6.66> but sure

----- Today November 26th, 2016 -----
cerberus_v6.66 [9:03 AM]
Well, farside aaked the question we didn't want her to ask

drixx [3:39 PM]
I'm sick and we're cooked if anyone is paying enough attention to realize what that means

[3:39]
I'm very irritated that Varsoon changed his mind on answering that question

cerberus_v6.66 [3:40 PM]
He didn't change his mind?

drixx [3:40 PM]
earlier his response to EXACTLY the same question farside asked was "It would depend heavily upon the way the event was worded"

[3:40]
there's also the first rule of good modding: never give an answer that impacts the game

cerberus_v6.66 [3:40 PM]
no

[3:40]
not the exact same question

drixx [3:40 PM]
his answer basically guarantees a town win

[3:40]
that's a question you simply don't answer

[3:40]
it took the game away from rhetorical space and made it mechanical

cerberus_v6.66 [3:41 PM]
drixx

[3:41]
just go be sick, feel better

[3:41]
you're wrong

drixx [3:41 PM]
No, I'm not wrong

cerberus_v6.66 [3:41 PM]
because he told us since like days ago how he would answer that question

[3:41]
which is why i advised against the gambit you wanted to run yesterday

drixx [3:41 PM]
As a game moderator, you NEVER answer a question if doing so impacts the outcome of the game

cerberus_v6.66 [3:41 PM]
the question was clarifying publicly known roles effects

[3:42]
and no, we're not " cooked"

[3:42]
because you're the one who failed to pursue that line

[3:42]
it just means that we're in the situation everyone has thought we were in all game long

cerberus_v6.66 [3:53 PM]
Also, the key to why he could answer publicly? The event itself says players "submit a target player"

[3:53]
it doesn't say we vote for a player

drixx [4:22 PM]
[18:20] <Drixx> the thing that bothers me about SU2 is that our strategy has been sound, we made only one mistake (the +stress from remote detonation) which arguably wasn't necessarily a mistake since Skybird was widely townread. In fact, the only reason Xykfu triggered the trap for clods was becuase he thought he could do it repeatedly, else he probably wouldn't have.

[4:22]
[18:20] <cerberusv6.66> yeah

[4:22]
[18:20] <Drixx> We're in a fucking absurdly bad position because two of our members put their heads in the noose for town and because town and gems together are absurdly overpowered for only 5 groupscum with a non-recruitable traitor

[4:22]
[18:20] <cerberusv6.66> the farside22 kill was questionable, but not with the knowledge we had

[4:22]
[18:21] <Drixx> although I'm starting to suspect that all 3 factions win on their own

[4:22]
[18:21] <Drixx> i.e. the town doesn't win if the gems do

[4:22]
[18:21] <Drixx> that's fucking bullshit

[4:22]
[18:21] <Drixx> an unlynchable who reflexively blocks even faction kills?

[4:22]
[18:21] <Drixx> what the FUCK kind of crack was Varsoon smoking?

[4:22]
[18:22] <Drixx> It's going to be all I can do to keep from pissing him off so much he tells me to go fuck myself and never talk to him again after this game ends, regardless of outcome

cerberus_v6.66 [4:26 PM]
mm

[4:26]
the moi kill was okay too I guess

[4:26]
because it had positive impact on how we look to the town(or it should have at least) and didn't change the clock

[4:26]
farside22 the only mistake was not discussing the possibility that she was lying about her role stopping factional kills

drixx [4:29 PM]
We should (and are by most people) be considered as close to conftown as it gets

[4:29]
our strategy worked for the most part

[4:29]
the problem is that PoE pool for mastin votes ended up being WAY smaller than it should have because of Titus' popping IC

[4:29]
so we need the right people dead if we're going to win

[4:30]
i.e. we somehow need to never be PoE'd

[4:30]
because Shadow is getting way too much heat to make it to the win

[4:30]
which means we have to

[4:30]
alternatively we could try and make it so our flip makes Shadow look unimpeachably town

cerberus_v6.66 [4:38 PM]
I'm uncertain how we do that

[4:38]
and yeah, the poe pool should hvae been this massive thing with Skybird and us in it

[4:38]
and the other half of the game should have been in the other pool

drixx [4:50 PM]
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8550859

cerberus_v6.66 [4:55 PM]
good post

drixx [6:37 PM]
I want you to respond to Farside

[6:37]
I'm posting a draft of how I would do it in the hydra PT

[6:37]
but she keeps quoting you to try and counter me

cerberus_v6.66 [9:10 PM]
Okay, so I'm up now

[9:11]
the way that I would respond would just be to ponit out that I specifically said we were coordinating with Yume, who we knew was in contact with Skybird, so the fact that Skybird knew about the plan WAS OUR INTENTION all along.

drixx [9:11 PM]
take what you like from my post or take nothing if you like

[9:12]
I'm just not going to argue with her when she's cherry picking shit you said to try and talk to me

[9:12]
I think it would be wise to point out that you think I'm dumb for believing she's not a threat

[9:12]
there's no such thing as a town role with an alternate 3p win condition who is unlynchable and can't be killed by factional shots

[9:13]
that's purely a 3P role and at the very best case it hurts the town by reducing numbers

[9:13]
and could be much worse

cerberus_v6.66 [9:14 PM]
Understood

drixx [9:15 PM]
like she left a perfect opening to have it pointed out that her claims just don't add up

[9:15]
every time she feels threatened she lashes out

[9:15]
first at Titus, who she kept fighting with even after Titus popped IC

[9:16]
now she's trying to push us as scum to distract from the fact that she's a bullshit artist

Drixx · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:01 pm

Post Draft:

In post 10987, farside22 wrote:
In post 10986, Almost50 wrote:So? Is it Creature, Fuzzy or farside we're lynching today? Are we back to the "my way or no way" kind of thing?
Creature or shadow.

I'll I read from rr is blah, blah, you so scum, blah blah how dare you call me out for being a hypocrite and take everything said out of context and blah blah blah.

Ummm... you ARE a hypocrite, but that's not the point. The point is that you are a liar. There's no such thing as a town-aligned lynchproof, multi-voter, alliance destroyer, bulletproof, reflexive roleblocker, roleblocker who can turn into a third party and get a personal win. Your claim, at this point, is so far beyond believable that I'm starting to wonder if you made a bet with someone that you could fool a game with the most ridiculous claim possible. It's so implausible that I am having trouble finding something to compare it to.

But you know what? It doesn't really matter. You've claimed to have a guilty for us, so let's lynch it and as far as I'm concerned, if you really are just a 3rd party with a points system and your claims are true, then you are close to your wincon. Get your points and get your personal win as far as I'm concerned. You handed us a guilty so the damage you do by leaving the game is mitigated. Seriously ... get your points and take your personal win. Shit... maybe if you admit that your claim is bullshit (which is obvious to any rational agent at this point), people might consent to help you get your points and GTFO.

~Drixx

Drixx · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:36 am

Post Draft:

In post 11092, Almost50 wrote:@Fuzzy:

I think I was told somewhere sometime ago that refundable 1-shot abilities get refunded at the START of the Season Finale. (Please check with Varsoon to be utterly certain).

If this IS the case, then it's your last chance to use your current shot tonight. Tomorrow IS the Season Finale and whether or not you have used your current shot it becomes unusable and you get a new one for the next season. (Again, please do check with Varsoon about this, as I don't have your role PM to see how it was worded and decide for myself.)

In post 11093, Almost50 wrote:I fail to locate where I got that from. I'm too lazy to go through all my previous alliances PTs to get the exact phrasing. If i was RR/MoI/grapes then they can confirm. If it was Xf then he's dead anyway, and so SC (but I don't think it was SC).

Anyway, confirmation or not.. FUZZY should as k Varsoon for his specific role/ability.

Because of the numbers and the fact that Farside is likely to reach her points and exit the game (I'm assuming that part of her claim is true and the 'win with town' part is the lie, fwiw), there are two really strong reasons for Fuzzy to hold the shot tonight. One of which you know. The other you don't but that's how it needs to be. I'm being really careful not to even come close to leaking the thing I'm worried about.

Umm... it isn't quite as bad, but think Space Dandy 2. There's a disaster scenario that we're worried about and a fuzzy shot gone wrong is part of it.

I think the best way to handle Farside right now is to let her break the current alliance she has (with Fuzzy's consent) and let her break the proposed Mastin/Shadow/Farside alliance tomorrow, which I believe according to her claim will give her the points to leave the game with a personal win. That removes a gigantic unknown and will put us on even numbers if scum succeed in killing tonight which simply turns LYLO into MYLO.

There's also some question about Fuzzy's alignment, and if he complies with this AND he passes the test Cerb and I have in mind for him tomorrow, AND he shows that he's a vig, we can be reasonably sure he's probably town. MoI's point that a scum vig given what we've seen from scum flips would either not exist or just be a one off thing seems much more likely than a scum vig who refills. And scum have had so many kills fail at this point that I don't think a scum!fuzzy could afford not to use his shot if it does indeed refill, so that in and of itself is a test.

That make sense?

@Farside - Am I right about your points?

~Drixx

Drixx · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:42 am

Post Draft:

In post 11092, Almost50 wrote:@Fuzzy:

I think I was told somewhere sometime ago that refundable 1-shot abilities get refunded at the START of the Season Finale. (Please check with Varsoon to be utterly certain).

If this IS the case, then it's your last chance to use your current shot tonight. Tomorrow IS the Season Finale and whether or not you have used your current shot it becomes unusable and you get a new one for the next season. (Again, please do check with Varsoon about this, as I don't have your role PM to see how it was worded and decide for myself.)

In post 11093, Almost50 wrote:I fail to locate where I got that from. I'm too lazy to go through all my previous alliances PTs to get the exact phrasing. If i was RR/MoI/grapes then they can confirm. If it was Xf then he's dead anyway, and so SC (but I don't think it was SC).

Anyway, confirmation or not.. FUZZY should as k Varsoon for his specific role/ability.

Because of the numbers and the fact that Farside is likely to reach her points and exit the game (I'm assuming that part of her claim is true and the 'win with town' part is the lie, fwiw. I mean ... I think she can win and we can still win, but I don't think she would win if the game ended before she gets her points and gets her win... that just doesn't make sense with the lynchproof, multi-voter, bulletproof, ascetic reflexive roleblocker), there are two really strong reasons for Fuzzy to hold the shot tonight. One of which you know. The other you don't but that's how it needs to be. I'm being really careful not to even come close to leaking the thing I'm worried about.

Umm... it isn't quite as bad, but think Space Dandy 2. There's a disaster scenario that we're worried about and a fuzzy shot gone wrong is part of it.

I think the best way to handle Farside right now is to let her break the current alliance she has (with Fuzzy's consent) and let her break the proposed Mastin/Shadow/Farside alliance tomorrow, which I believe according to her claim will give her the points to leave the game with a personal win. That removes a gigantic unknown and will put us on even numbers if scum succeed in killing tonight which simply turns LYLO into MYLO.

There's also some question about Fuzzy's alignment, and if he complies with this AND he passes the test Cerb and I have in mind for him tomorrow, AND he shows that he's a vig, we can be reasonably sure he's probably town. MoI's point that a scum vig given what we've seen from scum flips would either not exist or just be a one off thing seems much more likely than a scum vig who refills. And scum have had so many kills fail at this point that I don't think a scum!fuzzy could afford not to use his shot if it does indeed refill, so that in and of itself is a test.

That make sense?

@Farside - Am I right about your points?

~Drixx

Drixx · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:01 pm

Post Draft:

I want to give you the disaster scenario I'm concerned about, so you can confirm in thread that it makes sense (in case anyone somehow doubts us at this point) and also pass it on to MoI, because I believe we have to play assuming this is the scenario and hope that it's not.

So the scenario we're concerned about is that there might be 3 scum left. This isn't really a stretch because of the following: the game had mod-confirmed Mastin on day one via Yume, who was Steven. That's two slots right away that scum could never get lynched. Then there was Titus who was IC. Up to three slots. Then kraska could have popped IC in a 3-man LYLO which was a contingent 4th. There was also the ability someone had to copy another person's role, and for balancing purposes it had to be considered that Titus would be copied for another IC. That puts us to a hard 4, 5th contingent. Then add in the Crystal Gem masonry which started at 4 and bumped up to 5 and we have 9 slots that for sure could never be mislynched, with a 10th contingent.

Now if we assume 6 groupscum + traitor then the scum team had to get six mislynches and five or six night kills. They got some extra from events, but we stopped as many of their night kills as they got extra kills, so it's the same situation. So they had to be able to get six mislynches out of a pool of only 8-10 slots. If the scum team is one smaller, it's an extra mislynch out of a pool if 9-11 slots. I think that amount of unlynchable town/CGs should make us err on the side of caution.

So the disaster scenario would be this:

1.) Farside exits the game
2.) Fuzzy shoots a town tonight
3.) Scum's kill goes through tonight
4.) Creature is somehow town (I know this is really unlikely, but this is the kind of thing Cerb and I think of: what is the worst possible thing that could happen and how can we mitigate that)

If that all happened, we would go into tomorrow with 7 alive (Farside, Creature, Fuzzy's kill and Scum's kill all gone) and 3 would be scum. That's LYLO.

Drixx · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:36 pm

Post Draft:

There's a time to keep your cards hidden and a time to show them. Our intention was to keep our proverbial cards hidden, giving Random the info and plan (which we have done). Recent posts make it sort of meaningless to hide the plan though, so here goes:

There exists a scenario in which tomorrow could be LYLO or if the scum have an event left or some extra kill available, we could simply face game over. That's what we've been talking to Random about and trying to organize things in the game to prevent. I'll lay out what our plan is, which Random evaluated the totality of and the logic of and agreed we probably were right (in terms of worst case and how to avoid it):

1.) Farside is an unreliable narrator. She has been caught in one lie, at least, and all we actually know about her is her demonstrated abilities and her claims. According to her posts earlier in the game and when she answered my direct question, she gets 1 point for each person in an alliance she disbands. If she were excluded from that, she would have said so when originally answering my question today, instead of trying to shoe horn that in when I pointed out that we could get her to 20 points and test her claim. I think that speaks for itself. -- So the first part of the plan was to force Farside to prove her personal win at 20 points claim as quickly as possible. This can be accomplished by having her disband today's alliance and a posited 3 person finale alliance, according to her answer before she realized that I was going to push for her to prove the claim.

2.) Point one has some impact on Creature; however, I'm not sure why on earth Farside would LIE about who she blocked from killing her, so unless someone can provide a motive there, it's probably a legit guilty.

3.) I've spent a good deal of time going through a couple of ISOs today. One of them is Shadow_Step. I got Cerb to do some digging through it as well on his phone, and we both came to the same conclusion. Out of the pool of suspects, he's the one we think is most likely to flip scum after Creature.

4.) There has been some question about Fuzzy and people want to see him demonstrate his vig. Our plan ensures that nothing can stop his vig shot as long as we successfully ally. Given that our plan involves giving him a loaded gun that can't be stopped, we also planned to give him enough of an infodump and analysis of the situation that he would agree to leash to a consensus decision of whom to shoot with Mastin, MoI and Random being the ones to decide (Conftown, Crystal Gems ... should be obvious). We suggested Shadow already to Random to pass on to MoI tonight; however, he's been brought up now as a possible lynch or vig shot and so it doesn't make sense to keep that hidden any longer.

In short, we want to eliminate as many possible threats as possible expending the least possible resources. We believe that the fact that Farside immediately contradicted herself once presented with the plan to take her claimed personal win and exit the game basically speaks for itself. If anyone remains unconvinced, we already put together a plan to test her claim and to also test Fuzzy's claim in such a way that there is no out if the vig shot doesn't materialize.

I'm not really good at swaying people like Titus or Mastin, so I just ask that you please consider following the plan. I'm pretty sure that Creature lynched, Farside probably outed as a liar and lynched tomorrow (when we can ensure she cannot escape it) and a posited honest!fuzzy shooting Shadow is going to result in 2 scum flips and a 3P flip and hopefully game over, we win. There exists some reason to posit an additional scum, which we discussed with Random and which he can relay to you tonight MoI.

~Drixx

Drixx · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:20 pm

Post Draft:

Obviously we think you should shoot Farside and that the reasons are self-evident.

That said, If you're

not

going to shoot Farside, fuzzy, then you should shoot us. Cerb and I are in agreement that A50 is almost certainly town and we would rather be shot than mislynched by people who refuse to see reason.

Things to bear in mind going forward if you decide to shoot us so that you can help ensure this is a win instead of a loss:

Shadow scum claimed so assuming 100% his flip will be scum. At most there are two more (and the reason to be wary of this is because of how many slots the game has that aren't lynchable).

There are limited candidates for who can be scum. Positing you and A50 both as town means Grapes, I think. Grapes got "confirmed" as the target of a kill attempt by Skybird by TWIE's "Historical Fiction" event. The problem with that clear is that it could super easily be faked. Presumably scum knew what events and such they could all do and if they were competent at all they would have had a plan in place for a dead scum to "clear" a teammate giving a false claim of what they did and then TWIE claims he made that slot one of the three "true" ones, and really it's a set up. This also makes sense because Grapes is Lapis and started as a leftover along with Xykfu, and Xykfu joined the Crystal Gems, so it logically follows that Grapes could have joined scum.

In fact, that could have been a thing where the scum team just lucked into something. They may have actually shot at Grapes and had it fail and then he later joined them so TWIE pops the event and says he made Skybird's claim be adjusted to truth and then it "clears" someone who scum didn't realize was going to join them.

If you shoot us and lynch Grapes and it still doesn't end, I would personally lynch farside over A50, simply because we know for sure that A50 knew about Xykfu and there's simply no way the scum team would have taken an action that changed stress and allowed Xykfu to take out arguably their strongest member. That just doesn't make sense, and given that A50 knew about Xykfu and relayed to us the information about what he could do and the stress requirement, it just doesn't make sense.

If somehow the game STILL wasn't over at that point, then either you're scum or the game setup is such that the gems are not actually compatible with us.