Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame

[ChibiBear]

This long awaited day has finally arrived!

past jjh is dead. this is currernt jjh which will soon also be past jjh who will die.

we should instead vote for future jjh but future jjh will never come because when it is the future it will be the current and then past and we all know the past is just history and history is dead.

so we can't lynch anyone when u think about it.
our past selves aren't our current selves and we aren't ever our future selves until it becomes current and then it will pass and the idea of the self is kind of a touchy subject, not even sure if there is such a thing of the self and we are all just in mass delusion that a self exists for convenience.

VOTE: Firebringer

My next existential spiral is scheduled for Wednesday, please don't mess up my schedule

[ChibiBear]

Nevermind

Pedit: Hey that's what I was about to guess!

I don't really see why that would be a scum quest in particular though.

[ChibiBear]

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Idk, just seems like the obvious conclusion considering what he said? I was thinking of the exact same thing.

[ChibiBear]

I was about to also guess about the quest being needing to get to L-1 or L-2 or something similar but Nibbi beat me to it.

[ChibiBear]

Spoiler: Nevermind.

GDI Gamma don't just reveal my flavour like that

[ChibiBear]

Oh dear god. Okay so I'm going to do my best to try to reply to The Great Wall of Varsoon at some point but right now it's too early in the morning for that.

NK15's explanation of his MariaR/nightkill statement makes sense, but I can't 100% shake the possibility of it being a recovery from a slip up. It feels pretty genuine though? Plus the people who know him are saying that this is pretty typical of him. I think it's likely that his logic was from a town POV and just had an odd choice of terminology.

I don't really know what to make of the Miller claim, I was a Miller in my most recent game and avoided claiming until the final day because I didn't want to get insta-lynched on D1 or policy lynched later on. According to you guys and the wiki though it's apparently common practice to claim ASAP so I guess that I'm just

baaaaarely

leaning towards believing the claim at the moment. Miller is a pretty awkward role in normals but in a theme game with unusual roles it might actually be pretty interesting, I'm really looking forward to seeing what kinds of cool roles jjh came up with!

Ok I'm just rambling now to avoid having to actually read that wall. Ugh.

[ChibiBear]

Once again, another anti-town, content-devoid garbage sheep that I warned against earlier.

Well that's real nice, I can already tell we're going to get along.
Sorry if you don't like RVS but it's a thing that happens and I choose to participate in it.

How did it seem obvious?
What did he say to make it seem obvious?
Walk me through this like I am a child.

Why are you asking me and not Nibbui who came to the same conclusion?

"the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)"
So it's something that doesn't really affect town in a meaningful way neither positively nor negatively, and can be easily controlled. Getting a certain number of votes immediately jumps to mind. Or could be to do with deadlines, achieving a lynch before/after a certain time limit. I initially also thought maybe being targeted by a night action but that doesn't really fit.

'It's not a full-on anti-town quest lol. It's not a quest I can achieve by myself so I'd need to work with everyone to achieve it. But I can see a way in which it could make things go badly."
It's not inherently harmful to town but can result in something bad happening. Again, the things I mentioned above can all fit.

"I imagine that we are either going to achieve my quest condition naturally or we are going to come close to it and I'm going to be like "hey, can we quickly do this:" to achieve it. It would make more sense if I claim it."
"My quest isn't necessarily disruptive though, just that it could be."
So yeah. Between the things I came up with, getting a certain number of votes (Eg. L-1) seemed to make the most sense considering his descriptions. When I saw Nibbui come to the same conclusion I thought it was pretty cool since I'm not usually any good at logical deductions, but since he also came up with the same thing, that means my logic was probably sound.

I assume this is because of something to do with the character?

What character? I don't remember mutant claiming a character. I guessed it based on the above reasoning.

Maybe don't make obvious picks with easy solves for how they'd render into Mafia?
Like damn, son.

Uh, what? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. How does this make sense as a reply to my joke about Gamma 'revealing' my flavour? (And yes, flavour has a 'u' :3)

[ChibiBear]

Also an afterthought: You seemed to be against further discussion about the quest, why would you ask me to walk you through my thought process and dredge that discussion back up?

[ChibiBear]

I mean I wasn't

trying

to pocket you, but I obviously will not say no to being townread!

I was away just now so I actually didn't see that first post until after you posted that 2nd one. Now that you mention it though, why

would

you townread me as a result of feeling like you're being pocketed?

actually nvm

I thought that if I said I was beginning to town read you as nonchalantly like that, if you said "sure" just as nonchalantly I would give you town points but...

It's page 6 so ofc you gotta question why or find it unnatural :/

This doesn't feel like something scum would say imo.

[ChibiBear]

Can we make a petition for Varsoon to stop responding to posts if all he's gonna say to them is a variation of 'Pls stop fluff/jokes'? He said that about like 10+ posts which is just a huge waste of space in a wall that's tedious enough to read as it is.

Pedit: Oh dear.

[ChibiBear]

The way I see it, I'm not gonna just sit back and not even try to win the minigame. It's too early in the game for me to have anyone I trust strongly enough to just give them that power. Maaaaaybe I'd allow it for Nibbui or perhaps Mutant, my 2 relatively stronger townleans, but even then I'm reluctant.

And besides, if all Kokichi winning is going to achieve is unlocking

some else's

2nd role, why in the world would we not just have

that

person win the minigame in the first place? Seems like we're chucking in an extra step there for no reason.

[ChibiBear]

I also feel like his whole 'power a second person up' thing is very questionable.
I don't buy it all at face value.
I think I'd be fine with it if Kokichi won the minigame on their own
but I won't just roll over let them have it.
Think about it;
You know your own alignment.
You know if winning the minigame on your own would empower town (yourself)
Why would you entrust someone else who's align/role you don't know?

That's what I'm saying bro!
This whole 'letting Kokichi win' makes no sense.

I'm catching up in reverse btw so I can get in on the conversation before all you guys go to sleep. Also I don't want to look at page 6.

[ChibiBear]

OH WAIT I think I've been misunderstanding Kokichi's claim.

Does he mean that he unlocks someone else's 2nd role AS WELL AS his own?

This whole time I thought he meant that winning the minigame means he gets to unlock someone else and that's all, which is why I was so confused.

[ChibiBear]

Varsoon posted fluff outside of a spoiler tag, I'm calling the police

[ChibiBear]

Page 6 should be quarantined.

It does

bear

repeating.

Hah.

Ok so I'm feeling much better about Varsoon after that 2nd wall and his recent posts.

Honestly, that first wall had so much cherrypicking and other sorta pointless feeling stuff that despite the massive amount of effort, it didn't feel all that pro-town, and my gut feeling on it was not good. His personality seems to have changed a lot between that 1st and 2nd wall though, what's going on here?

That being said, my early game gut reads tend to be more accurate than my logic reads so I'm not quite ready to write him off as town just yet. We'll see.

I have half a mind to sheep his vote on RC though. I've only played 1 game with RC but he's a pretty opinionated and confident dude from what I've seen, it seems strange to me that he's actively refusing to post anything useful when there's plenty to talk about already.

Actually ya know, why not?

VOTE: RC

RC if you're town please start contributing.

[ChibiBear]

Chibi u haven’t contributed anything here so not sure why ur asking RC to

90% of ur iso is complaining about fluff and other non read related content

I've made like 2 posts complaining about fluff. It's no secret that I'm not a strong player, but I'm trying my best to post what few reads and opinions I have at this early stage of the game, and joining in on the discussion where I can.

[ChibiBear]

Ooooh was Night 0 for like setting up the neighbourhoods then? That would make sense.

[ChibiBear]

Chibi u haven’t contributed anything here so not sure why ur asking RC to

90% of ur iso is complaining about fluff and other non read related content

I've made like 2 posts complaining about fluff. It's no secret that I'm not a strong player, but I'm trying my best to post what few reads and opinions I have at this early stage of the game, and joining in on the discussion where I can.

Do better

K.

[ChibiBear]

Chibi you don't have anything else to say to me about your vote?

Sure. Your reluctance to post was weird to me and I didn’t like it but it’s obviously not

necessarily

scum.

Either way I wanted to see you post more because if you’re scum, it would help me read you. (duh)
If you’re town, you’re a strong player so we’re going to do better in the game if you talk more.

Pedit: On my phone rn, expect me to lag behind.

[ChibiBear]

ur literally trying to antagonize rc here.

So what if I am?
RC needs to play the game.
If I have to kick the hornet's nest to get him to do it, I will.

no if u do, i am going to have to ask the mod to interject because ur intentionally trying to provoke someone.

You can’t be serious. How is this sort of interaction even anywhere close to needing mod intervention?

[ChibiBear]

Chibi, don't be tricked.
RC isn't a strong player.
Strong players can lead town to victory.
Strong players can acknowledge their weaknesses and grow.
Proof is in the pudding. Lynch RC and the flip will prove their strength as a player.

Eh. He managed to pretty much win the game for us last time as town, but admittedly only barely.
Either way as I said, my main interest is seeing him (and others) post more so this works fine for me.

[ChibiBear]

Is the pedit aimed at me? At the moment I am against a Varsoon lynch, especially on Day 1.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not under the impression that RC is infallible or anything like that.

[ChibiBear]

@320 ugh phone posting

[ChibiBear]

Idk if I’m missing something here but the arguments in Witches’ Halloween were way worse than this and nobody ever talked about getting banned. Either way it’s not really any of my business I guess.

[ChibiBear]

I’m excited to see what it is! I highly doubt that I have any chance at winning, but I am eager to give it try

[ChibiBear]

Oh man. Do you think you can do a countdown for the approx time? Like are we talking 2 hours? 6 hours? 12 hours?

Like I'm more than happy to wait but just so I can like leave and go do something else in the time being.

[ChibiBear]

I mean discussing the minigame probably qualifies as playing mafia since we get to see people's mindsets but yeah. I've only skimmed the last few pages (I'll read and respond to them properly later but it's been a very busy morning) and it seems that the conclusion is that it's every man (or woman) for themselves then?

I didn't even consider the possibility of the winner not being announced, but since that possibility exists, I definitely agree that we should all go ahead and play as intended, which is what I originally wanted to do anyway

[ChibiBear]

NicoRobin needs a prod

Reading the Nibbui vs Mutant discussion is hurting my brain. This might be bias seeping over from my initial townreads of both of them, but that whole thing feels like it could be TvT. I think that there is very little chance that Nibbui could be scum at this point.

[ChibiBear]

NicoRobin needs a prod

Reading the Nibbui vs Mutant discussion is hurting my brain. This might be bias seeping over from my initial townreads of both of them, but that whole thing feels like it could be TvT. I think that there is very little chance that Nibbui could be scum at this point.

Can you elaborate on why?

Both of them seem to be working off consistent logic in their arguments, and their arguments feel like they are more likely to come from a town POV. Mutant's reasoning in the earlier posts were questionable but his later explanations make sense to me, and feel like genuine explanations of his earlier points. (Regarding the issue of Kokichi probably being the one who gets to choose since the vote will be far from unanimous.) There are a few things that he said that I found a bit iffy, but I think that Nibbui addressed them all already.

The way I see it, it makes sense for town to want to fend for themselves in this minigame, since they KNOW that they are town, and only by winning the game themselves can they guarantee no scum gets a power up. On the other hand, I can also understand Nibbui's motivations from a town perspective, except he seems to be way more optimistic about our ability to pick out town. The way he changed his mind in a logical way upon finding out the possibility that the winner may not be announced pings town to me.

[ChibiBear]

did you miss jjh's part about there being no millers

i thought you were just rvs joking around with the miller claim

21. There will be 10 town and 3 mafia. Nobody will be a Ninja or Miller.

Nice one

[ChibiBear]

Unless I'm hallucinating, there is no rule 21

[ChibiBear]

Tbh I believed it for a few second before I realised that hey, fake news is a thing.

[ChibiBear]

Ah crap. I didn't realise that Nico had posted right before you said that because I was writing my post. I would have let it sit if I realised she was back.

[ChibiBear]

Eh. Looks like RC is pretty set on doing most of his talking in his neighbourhood and I don't really feel like lynching him, at least not at this point.

UNVOTE:

Do you think saying NicoRobin's name more will get her to post more?

Turning off the lights.

Looking into a mirror.

NicoRobin, NicoRobin, NicoRobin.

[ChibiBear]

You're funny Varsoon <3

[ChibiBear]

It's a joke, he altered my post like NSG did earlier.

Can we stop doing that now btw, the joke has run its course and spreading misinformation can cause problems.

[ChibiBear]

"Oh uh but now that it implicates me as scum, I don't like the joke no more"

It's literally a fake post.

[ChibiBear]

I like jokes until they start affecting our ability to have useful discussions.

[ChibiBear]

I don't want to spend the rest of the game having to double and triple check every single quote that people post to make sure I'm not being handed false information.

[ChibiBear]

Huhhh?

You know. Like summoning Bloody Mary? Turn off the lights, stare into a mirror, say her name 3 times?

Try it the next time you have a slumber party, it's fun for the whole family!

[ChibiBear]

He said he was talking in his neighbourhood after I asked him to talk more, and that he doesn't want to talk here because of wanting to lynch Varsoon or something.

I thought that he'd maybe change his mind but it's been like 24 hours and he's still not talking here so I assumed he was talking in the neighbor PT instead.

[ChibiBear]

... Did jjh just rickroll us?

[ChibiBear]

Yeah actually I think what I should have done is allowed people to pick a time to be sent the list

I definitely agree with this! Like maybe have 3-4 times allocated (Eg. 10am, 4pm, 10pm) and we can pick the one that works best for us, something like that?

[ChibiBear]

Jesus Christ. If the following minigames are all going to be based on speed, I'm conceding right now. My internet is literally not fast enough for this sort of thing.

[ChibiBear]

Eh, by my estimations, even if I had optimal internet speeds, there's no way in hell I would have been able to do it in under approx 35ish mins regardless. I need to work on my google-fu.

[ChibiBear]

Did anyone else even come close to 31 mins? That's a pretty insane time.

[ChibiBear]

Oof. I figured that other people would try to rush it so I thought I might as well rush it too or there wouldn't be much point. So I rushed through it and realised afterwards that I got like 3 things wrong so I wasn't expecting to win anyway. Took me 46 mins and I was actually trying pretty hard too

I left Never Gonna Give You Up on repeat in the background for some reason. It was wild. 5/7, would play again.

[ChibiBear]

I mean to be honest my first reaction to seeing 31 mins was 'Uhhhhh wtf how? That shouldn't be possible?'

But I figured that just because I couldn't do it, doesn't mean nobody else can.

My personal theory is that RC and FB worked together though since they're so buddy-buddy.

[ChibiBear]

@NSG: Scum has much more incentive to hoard the power for themselves by sniping the minigame as fast as possible.
If you had gotten the prize in 35, yeah, I'd be fucking critical of you, too, but you also don't have an apparent VAST HIDDEN NETWORK OF PRIVATE COMMUNICATION and haven't DISAPPEARED FROM THE FUCKING GAME while somehow being TOWNREAD BY PEOPLE WHO AREN'T EVEN INTERACTING WITH YOU IN THE MAIN GAME THREAD

Oh wow it's almost like RC's pulling a bunch of strings in a really duplicitous way away from PRYING EYES.

P-EDIT:
@Elbirn: And I don't want that kind of person running the show.

I mean I definitely don't disagree with you, but what does that say about his alignment?

I've played only one game with RC where he was confirmed innocent from the start so apart from his general personality I have absolutely nothing to compare this to. He's completely null for me right now.

[ChibiBear]

@NSG: Scum has much more incentive to hoard the power for themselves by sniping the minigame as fast as possible.
If you had gotten the prize in 35, yeah, I'd be fucking critical of you, too, but you also don't have an apparent VAST HIDDEN NETWORK OF PRIVATE COMMUNICATION and haven't DISAPPEARED FROM THE FUCKING GAME while somehow being TOWNREAD BY PEOPLE WHO AREN'T EVEN INTERACTING WITH YOU IN THE MAIN GAME THREAD

Oh wow it's almost like RC's pulling a bunch of strings in a really duplicitous way away from PRYING EYES.

P-EDIT:
@Elbirn: And I don't want that kind of person running the show.

I mean I definitely don't disagree with you, but what does that say about his alignment?

I've played only one game with RC where he was confirmed innocent from the start so apart from his general personality I have absolutely nothing to compare this to. He's completely null for me right now.

When I said I agree I meant the stuff about RC btw.

I agree with NSG about the trying to snipe the minigame being NAI since it makes complete sense for town to want the ability too.

Pedit: There is a huge difference between finishing in under an hour and finishing in 31 mins. Like it's not even comparable, finishing it in an hour would have been a leisurely pace.

[ChibiBear]

Not to mention that RC claims that he started at 0:08 and the final 3 minutes were waiting for the minesweeper clock. He's essentially claiming that he finished the ENTIRE LIST OF 40 ITEMS IN 20 MINS.

You wizard. You warlock.

[ChibiBear]

Even aside from the time zone issue, an internet scavenger hunt is way too reliant on internet speeds. Granted I probably wouldn't have managed 31 mins even with fast internet, without it, I literally have no chance. If later minigames are along the same lines, I probably won't bother.

I mean absolutely no offence to jjh, I honestly thought that it was well designed and a lot of fun, but still.

[ChibiBear]

You know what? I'm gonna say byebye for a few hours and gtfo from away from all this because I'm starting to want to yell at people and yelling at people isn't nice

[ChibiBear]

Oof, narrowly dodging a prod. Currently reading all the stuff from yesterday, I planned to catchup and post last night but I passed the heck out

[ChibiBear]

I hard scumread varsoon's opening wall and I haven't tried to read anything else from him. At some point I've been meaning to do that since if the wall was in fact forced that might explain why it felt ultra forced. I dunno. We'll see.

Ok so I was also initially having bad feelings about that wall (for reasons other than the obvious ugh-factor), but the problem is, unless I've hugely misread things, Varsoon has since hinted at having to make that wall for whatever reasons. Like he had no choice but to write it or something? So I dunno, the way I see it, it's not really scum indicative.

I sure HOPE it's a LUCK minigame.

Ok but Kokichi, are you gonna engage with the game other than talking about the minigames? Tbh I’m starting to think Kokichi is probably town purely based on his refusal to talk about anything other than the mini games. I feel like if he were scum, he wouldn’t be this overly blatant about it. Probably. Idk I do not have a good track record of reading Kokichi so if you could go ahead and post something non minigame related that would be great.

And Nico, are you gonna engage with the game at all?

Actually, I think a NSG-FB scum team would make sense but I don't scum read NSG so that's not anything to apply to FB. So basically I'd rather RC be lynched before FB unless NSG flips scum. But I have no interest in any of that right now and my point is that I don't think we should be voting for FB.

So you don't think NSG or FB are likely to be scum, but you think they may be a scum team together? Can you elaborate on why you think they're connected in such a way?

I also don't think that NSG is scum btw, I get a similar feeling from her posts as I do from Nibbui's, it's a nice towny feeling (although to a much lesser extent) :3

I don't really feel scum!FB strongly at all but if there is no better options for today...

Do you have anyone you would rather lynch over Fire though? I am also not against lynching Fire, although my read of him is

far

from any sort of solid scum read, I feel that the chances of him flipping scum are at least 50%, and also, a flip from him I reckon might help me to sort a few people.

[ChibiBear]

I'm tempted to tell the RC vs. Varsoon debacle to kick rocks because I dont think I can make a proper choice

I want to vote RC but that decision is literally based on personal bullshit. I think RC, while surely a respectable player of mafia, as either alignment will control the game in a super unhealthy way. Even if town I'm going to have a miserable time having him boss everyone around and insist on having his way. The only other person here who seems willing to act as a balancing effect to this is Varsoon, but RC is so threatened by another strong willed personality that he csnt do anything else but will it out of existence, and it doesnt help that they've got personal beef with each other

I dont want RC vs varsoon because I want to actually play mafia, not...whatever this is.

^ Apart from a busy weekend and generally not feeling like playing mafia, this is exactly why I've been having trouble finding anything to say. I don't like being this inactive but I've been actively avoiding getting involved in RC vs Varsoon because I felt that I have nothing to contribute. You can't really deny that the conflict originated from a personal vendetta, and I'm finding it difficult at this point to separate what is personal from what is actually game relevant.

I've only seen RC as confirmed innocent town so I have no idea how he usually plays as either alignment, and I don't know Varsoon at all. This whole time, I've been working with the assumption that this interactions is the most likely to be TvS because that's what it feels like to me, so I've been trying to pick the scum out of them two and while I have no concrete read, I do have a few thoughts on it. Now, this may sound like a completely insane question, but bear with me here: Is there any possibility at all that this is just a huge distraction, and both are scum? That way if one of them is lynched/dies, the other will pretty much never be suspected again, is that possibly something that the two of them would do? Also, what are the chances that this is just TvT stemming from personal conflicts that got way out of hand? If some of you who are more familiar with them could weigh in on this, that would be great, thanks.

So if it is indeed TvS as I believe is most likely the case, and I absolutely had to pick one to lynch, I would have to go with RC. RC's push on Varsoon up until yesterday when he started posting more has been absolutely nothing but 'He's scum, please lynch', whereas Varsoon's case against RC has been based more on reasoning regarding on his behavior from the start, and I can see where he's coming from. I realise that giving someone townpoints on the basis that their viewpoint is similar to your own can be bias, but the way I see it, it makes sense for my viewpoint to be more closely shared by town than scum right? Also, and this is probably a reason that many of you will dislike, but I'm extremely uncomfortable with RC's openness about how willing he is to strongarm the game, and the way he's said things like how we're basically all screwed if he is scum. Considering RC's confidence, I can't shake the feeling that he could very well be scum who's power wolfing because he believes that he can get away with it.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

So I guess I'm back here at least for now. It may all be guesswork based on assumptions and gut feeling but it's Day 1, and this is what makes the most sense to me.

[ChibiBear]

Oh my god what fresh hell is this.

[ChibiBear]

People are avoiding posting in this game? That's so weird, I can't imagine why this would happen.

Look, I tried to read those 15 or so pages yesterday like 3 times, but I had a crappy morning so I was not in the mood for it and my eyes just glazed over every time.

I'm going to try to power through it today though.

[ChibiBear]

Chibi played the minigame but hasn't posted for several days despite vote parking me. Wonder if that's a buddy

Ok so you see, this is exactly why I think the strongarming is pinging scum for me. He's blatantly trying to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with him by exaggerating the negative aspects of their behavior for anyone who doesn't bother to check the facts in this mess of a thread.

The facts are:
I posted content less than 48 hours before this, that is

not

several days.
The minigame came out

before

this aforementioned post. Why wouldn't I have played it?
Since my last post, this thread has exploded in 1v1 shenanigans and hurts my brain to read.

Town should not have to falsify and misrepresent things like RC has in order to push their points, this feels wrong.

Still reading btw, but this I had to point out right now.

[ChibiBear]

I don't know if he's done anything similarly dodgy with his comments on other players, his comment on NSG appears to be correct though, she disappeared right before the bulk of the 1v1 began.

... Which to be fair is understandable. Like Elbirn said, that's only really telling IF Varsoon flips scum, until then I'm assuming that she disappeared because this game is painful to read.

[ChibiBear]

I don't know what Fire's problem with me is but it bugs me that instead of ignoring my 'meh' posts like a reasonable person, he feels the need to comment on them but only in an annoying way that doesn't actually accomplish anything.

[ChibiBear]

Dont worry chibi I like your posting, we can be stupid together

Is this pocketing? I'll allow it.

[ChibiBear]

Oh ok so I was gonna say that having read (ok, skimmed) the last 20 pages, I still think RC feels like the more likely scum between them but I guess that's the hammer? Tbh I'm just glad this is over.

Just out of curiosity, Nibbui if he flips scum who is your strongest town read? And if he flips town?

[ChibiBear]

Who is your strongest scum read*

[ChibiBear]

Do you ever read/use a word so much it stops feeling like a real word?

[ChibiBear]

Oh ok then continue please.

[ChibiBear]

I hate phone posting.

[ChibiBear]

Thank.

Also I feel like I should get to know bananadog since I am bananacat

[ChibiBear]

Oh good, we're playing mafia again.

So let me get this straight:
Elbirn can make a double lynch happen, 1 during Day and then 1 more during Night by keeping this thread open during Night.
Fire has always had this triple voting ability but didn't notice it at first because he didn't read that part of the PM.
And he attempted to hammer Gamma with this ability but failed?

Ok question, after triple voting Varsoon earlier you claimed that you didn't know where your ability came from despite literally triple voting. Were you just trolling about not knowing the power at that point? Because that couldn't have been an accident that you just

happened

to vote 3 times.

[ChibiBear]

Wait I can't read either, ignore that last question.

[ChibiBear]

Ok yeah that makes sense.

[ChibiBear]

Oh btw my quest is also to be in a PT so

Pedit: Um because he said it? Idk I'l go find it, it's a few pages back.

[ChibiBear]

Right

Elbirn wanna use that second Lynch on fire if the first one is used?

Mmmm fires a tougher sell for me cuz I think hes just a silly willy walnut head

We'll also need more support there in all likelihood

In fact I'm just gonna stop being cute about it, I'm talking about literally a second lynch, not a vig shot or anything. My minigame role gives me a 1 per game use of idkwhattocallit, the game thread stays open at night and we can lynch again.

I feel like using it asap because reasons

[ChibiBear]

Yeah, like you can vote elsewhere but if you're voting with RC, you have to be tsun-tsun.

[ChibiBear]

OwO

[ChibiBear]

Nah I think they were scared off by the OwO

[ChibiBear]

Ok I'm back and catching up.

Ugh.

[ChibiBear]

i played this the way I had to with varsoon doing what he was doing. i'm like I am out of necessity.

I'm not sure if it was a necessity, but I get where you are coming from. That's a way to deal with the situation.

Well, let's just move on from that though.

VOTE: Radiant

Nothing personal but I'm not moving my vote from here, in fact, I can even perhaps yell for this lynch.

If there's even a 1% chance that Radiant is scum here, I'm lynching him today. I don't want to perhaps see this kind of play defended on post-game because it's a "winnable strategy".

This, except I think he has a far higher than 1% chance of flipping scum.

He's said over and over how nobody can even touch him if he's scum, that he's the freaking god of pushing lynches regardless of his alignment. Scum with that sort of mindset would no doubt power wolf and strongarm his way through the game and even say 'if this flips town then lynch me tomorrow'. I don't know you RC, and I don't intent to get to know you. But I believe you could definitely be scum in this game.

The way you misrepresent things people say and threaten then with scumreads if they don't agree with you. It's blatantly manipulative, not in a 'town using strategy to win' way, but in a 'scummy as all hell' way.

If this slot is still around in LyLo/MyLo then I'm replacing out, I refuse to play with this.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[ChibiBear]

Oh lol accidentally pressed submit. Continuing on:

Nobody thinks that their own words are toxic, everyone believes that they themselves are justified. I for one agree with the people saying that you were the more toxic one in this situation, and no, this does not mean that I think Varsoon's behavior was reasonable.

If it were anyone else in this situation I would probably reconsider, because I do not think most scum players would push a mislynch on town this freaking hard while saying 'lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong', but you're ~special~ so I absolutely believe that is something you would do as scum.

[ChibiBear]

Oh good an extension, perfect timing, catching up now.

I definitely have NOT been on a bender for the entire weekend.

[ChibiBear]

Ugh, we're running out of time.

I dunno, I think that I was slightly townleaning Kokichi earlier because I feel like scum wouldn't ultra focus on the minigames and ignore everything else like he did, but I'm not sure how valid a 'read' that really is. He actively avoided taking a stance on the 1v1 and during tonight he seems to be jumping on the most popular wagons, which I'm not too sure about but it's not necessarily scum motivated? If he really is town and telling the truth though, then we could be lynching a pretty big potential asset, but even if that’s the case, I'm not entirely sure that I'll ever trust him enough to allow him to use his ability without question. I don't think his claim is a lie as it’s so easily provable, but I reckon it's entirely possible that it is a half truth and there's more to it. At the moment my read on him is null at best.

If NK15's strange logic is characteristic of his play regardless of alignment then he's gonna be a pain to sort with any kind of certainty. His push on Nibbui is very interesting though, would scum start a push against a widely townread player? Or rather more importantly, does his push seem genuine? At the point where he started pushing Nibbui, there were already quite a few votes on him, I feel like if he were scum looking to get out of a lynch, he wouldn't decide to go for Nibbui of all people, I think that his push is more likely than not to be genuine.

Ughhhhhhhh I'm taking a stance here I guess, feels bad to just waste Elbirn’s ability.

VOTE: Kokichi

[ChibiBear]

Ugh, we're running out of time.

I dunno, I think that I was slightly townleaning Kokichi earlier because I feel like scum wouldn't ultra focus on the minigames and ignore everything else like he did, but I'm not sure how valid a 'read' that really is. He actively avoided taking a stance on the 1v1 and during tonight he seems to be jumping on the most popular wagons, which I'm not too sure about but it's not necessarily scum motivated? If he really is town and telling the truth though, then we could be lynching a pretty big potential asset, but even if that’s the case, I'm not entirely sure that I'll ever trust him enough to allow him to use his ability without question. I don't think his claim is a lie as it’s so easily provable, but I reckon it's entirely possible that it is a half truth and there's more to it. At the moment my read on him is null at best.

If NK15's strange logic is characteristic of his play regardless of alignment then he's gonna be a pain to sort with any kind of certainty. His push on Nibbui is very interesting though, would scum start a push against a widely townread player? Or rather more importantly, does his push seem genuine? At the point where he started pushing Nibbui, there were already quite a few votes on him, I feel like if he were scum looking to get out of a lynch, he wouldn't decide to go for Nibbui of all people,

I think that his push is more likely than not to be genuine.

Ughhhhhhhh I'm taking a stance here I guess, feels bad to just waste Elbirn’s ability.

VOTE: Kokichi

This is a weird post because she states that she's running out of time. Implying that the vote on me is because it's running out of time. Then explains that her read on me is null at best, and nk15 is scummy based on the push she feels like is not genuine. At the point of this vote, NK15 had 6 votes, and if she was serious about being upset about running out of time, I don't see why she would vote me in that moment when I had less votes and she null read me and scumread nk15. I feel this post needs an explanation and I'm surprised no one else pointed it out. NK15 flips scum, this would be my next lynch

Bruh, you completely misread my post. I said that I felt that NK15's push on Nibbui was likely genuine and therefore was not scumreading him.

Ok so RC flipping town has messed me up a bit, I'm going to need to think about all this.

[ChibiBear]

It's the wording, I guess. Cause you can read it as 'not to be genuine'.

Still, why would you vote your null read there at that point?

Because out of the 2 viable wagons, I thought that you were more likely to be scum.

In the early game I am far more comfortable with townreads than scumreads, so I was focused on not letting someone I was townleaning get lynched.

[ChibiBear]

I'm not sure how much better I can explain my vote on Kokichi, seems like a lot of you guys aren't getting where I'm coming from.

Also can someone please explain where these Nico townreads are coming from? Is it just from familiarity? She is still the nullest of the null for me.

[ChibiBear]

I'd say that I had a pretty invigorating night, didn't get a lot of sleep but didn't die either. Some other stuff may have happened

[ChibiBear]

I don't have a huge amount of precedent behind it but in Witches' Halloween, RC's townreads that I agreed with all did turn out to be town iirc so I think that I'm can be a bit more confident on the townreads that we share.

Why am I suddenly an obvious lynch though? Can someone actually tell me what it is I've done that makes everyone suddenly think I'm no longer town? Because I know for a fact that I will be able to explain why I did what I did.

[ChibiBear]

That's fair, playing 'fine' is already a million better than how I did in my last game. Gamma knows what I'm talking about

[ChibiBear]

I mean you didn't really give a reason for voting me, your lynch pool of me, NK15, and Nico didin't really follow on from your previous few posts either.

When I got back you were busy with NSG and Nibbui so I thought I'd wait until after that to ask you what's going on.

[ChibiBear]

Do you think that if NK15 were scum, he could/would have faked that case on Nibbui while he was in danger of being lynched last night?

I can't help but keep coming back to that. Before it, I was willing to lynch him as a null read but after, I think that he is more likely to be town than scum.

[ChibiBear]

The tells might be worth less if you tell us but they aren't going to be worth anything if they die with you.

[ChibiBear]

Ok so fair warning, I am probably

definitely

going to be drunk all the way from around 4 hours ago up until New Years. I will still make an effort to post but y'all are gonna have to excuse any typos/excessive use of capslock/obnoxiousness/etc.

To head off this holiday season, I'm just gonna throw out my PoE because why not:

Towniest - Nibbui, Mutant
Town? - NSG, NK15
Eh - Elbirn, Maria
Null at best - Kokichi, Gamma, Fire, Nico

Ok so a few notes:

- 2 of my towny reads seem to be pretty insistent on Nico being town for some reason, so I'm a little hesitant on lynching Nico for now even though I personally do not town read her.
- Maria's frustration feels genuine-ish to me, plus I think I kinda like her posts from yesterday, but only enough to make her a very very slight town lean. She herself has said that she's hard to read. I still think she's wrong on NK15 though either way.
- I was initially a bit sus at Kokichi for pushing me due to misreading my post, but I remember that he also did some weird grammar stuff in Boon Camp as town (with the Lamees/the worst thing) so I think that is NAI.

[ChibiBear]

Moi?~ uwu

I never agreed with people who include themselves in their read list, seems dumb and pointless. No offense.

[ChibiBear]

What is it then.

[ChibiBear]

I never understood why people ask that question.

I guess my answer is: No idea. Haven't really thought about it.

[ChibiBear]

Scumreads then?

Oh. Is this going to be a repeat of Open 740? Fantastic. Just what I wanted to deal with.

[ChibiBear]

The last time people tried to squeeze scum reads out of me before I was ready to give them, I tried to lynch a town power role and then got mislynched and temporarily lost my goddamn mind.

Yeah, self meta, yada yada but if you really wanna know, check my ISO on Open 740. I'm not proud of it, but I won't apologise for working off townreads and PoE until I'm ready to do otherwise.

[ChibiBear]

After that huge clusterfrack I spent a few hours reading those wiki articles that are probably super outdated but they're better than nothing.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... tive_Tells

"Many games aren't won by lynching scum, but rather, by not lynching town."

The way I see it, it's a completely valid way to play the game.

[ChibiBear]

Yup.

Considering that I got mislynched for playing this same ways a few week ago? Apparently people think so.

[ChibiBear]

Wow english is hard. You know what I meant.

[ChibiBear]

Yeah thanks I already got this same speech from like 3 people during my absolutely failure of a previous game but sadly, it has failed to instantly make me a better player.

[ChibiBear]

The only by logic scumread I managed on Day/Night 1 was RC which turned out to be completely wrong.

My gut scum read on Day 1 was Fire but I'm now starting to wonder if it's really mechanically likely that a scum player would be given a freaking triple vote, even if that triple vote is dependent on a town player's actions.

[ChibiBear]

Sorry if it came off as bitter, that's not what I meant. I was trying to be sarcastic.

[ChibiBear]

Ok fine I'm a little bit bitter but that's less at you are more at Open 740. It was a really bad experience for me.

[ChibiBear]

Can you explain my apparent association with Maria's flip please? I'm genuinely interested.

And yes, I am in fact town. I would have thought that was obvious but I guess I'm biased.

'Different' Yeah let's go with that.

[ChibiBear]

Yup that's me, zero confidence and a focus on being rational.

I never really got the hang of tunnelling.

[ChibiBear]

I'd happily take something that would help me sort Elbirn.

[ChibiBear]

Cool cool, I gotta go anyway. I will trust your judgement on this.

[ChibiBear]

Hope everyone had a lovely Christmas!

I'm back. Sort of. There's still New Years.

Tbh I've forgotten a lot about this game but maybe that's good since I can look at everything with a refreshed mind or whatever.

[ChibiBear]

Ok so I'd like to start off by thanking jjh for not kicking me out of the game, it's been a crazy week.

I swear to god I'm going to catch up and make an actual proper post before I leave the house tonight.

[ChibiBear]

Maria > Kokichi (assuming no IC reveal) > Gamma > Firebringer

Fixed.

Though I kinda wanna lynch Kokichi today tbh since I'm 90% sure they are lying about their claim.

Why the rush? This isn't like Varsoon's claim where he said he 'might' be confirmed IC at some point in the game, Kokichi is outright claiming that he can be confirmed IC tomorrow, so if he's lying, we can just lynch him with confidence tomorrow.

you were very nearly lynched during the night - to the point where you would be dead by now if FB's vote counted as 3. So why the hell would you fail to mention that you were an IC then?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, Kokichi unlocked this role as a result of not making any night actions, so he didn't know he could be confirmed IC until the start of Day 2 right? Unless you have a better reason to invalidate his claim, I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt for today.

[ChibiBear]

Sorry for being absent, my New Years festivities are still ongoing, I'll should be back in like 48 hours or less.

[ChibiBear]

Oof sorry for my absence, it's been a crazy few weeks, things are just slowly getting back to normal now.

On the plus side I don't have like a billion pages to catch up on, yay?

[ChibiBear]

Sorry about that, I'm here now. I checked back a few times around when the day was supposed to start but it took a few extra days so I kinda forgot.

[ChibiBear]

Did NSG ever explain why she is so sure that Nico is town?

I have to admit, I'm having trouble following some of this, so I'm just gonna say my thoughts.

I was pretty confident that Nibbui was town and I don't see any reason to doubt Succinct's claim and PoE. As they pointed out, the ability seems really OP at first but if you really think about it, the success of it has been largely based on luck, and jjh did warn that the balance of this game could be swingy.

That being said, the possibility of there being redirections and a godfather are very real, so I'd like to confirm a few things before I make a decision to make sure I have all the right info. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Succinct, if you don't mind answering, why did you initially think you were redirected on N1? And how did mutant confirm that you weren't redirected? Also, if your target is not in a PT, would you get a different result, like 'no result' rather than a positive or a negative?

So there is at most 1 scum out of Gamma/NSG/Elbirn/Mutant assuming no redirections, and this is only possible if they are a godfather and the chances of that seem fairly low.

If we assume Succinct is town and telling the truth, that leaves the group of me/Kokichi/Nico/NK15 containing at least 2 scum, if not all 3.

The important part is assuming no redirections though, if we're wrong on that then we're in trouble.

I still think that NSG is town so if she can give a really good reason that Nico is town, I'll reconsider things, but otherwise I think the lynching order should be Kokichi=Nico->NK15, and hopefully that's all 3.

[ChibiBear]

NSG are you going to answer me at all? I'll even take 'I'd rather not say' over nothing.

We're still over a week away from the deadline but if this is how things are gonna go, I guess I'll hammer if Kokichi doesn't self-vote.

[ChibiBear]

Wow what the hell happened???

I'll read this all later but firstly I'd like to thank mutant and Nico for basically carrying me because I legitimately had no idea what I was doing since I haven't touched a scum role since like 2014 and I think in that one I just lurked the whole time and died on like Day 1 or 2.

Thank you for modding jjh! This setup was really freaking cool, my unenthusiasm was mostly because scum and didn't want to draw attention to myself.

[ChibiBear]

My understanding is that mutant got mechanically townblocked by accident, and Succinct later realised this mistake but decided not to out it publically because mutant seemed so obvtown.

[ChibiBear]

My understanding is that mutant got mechanically townblocked by accident, and Succinct later realised this mistake but decided not to out it publically because mutant seemed so obvtown.

We talked about this in the twilight zone pt actually, succinct revealed that mutant wasnt actually cleared and so would target him that night.

And you, you realized I had the power to enable minigames so you redirected me off of gamma and onto mutant didnt you? I should have confirmed with gamma that he got powered up..

Oh right I forgot you were in that PT.

Yeah nah I don't redirect people, you got into the PT because you targeted NSG and RC's thing redirected you onto him I believe.

[ChibiBear]

Oh wait I misread your post, ignore that.

[ChibiBear]

Nico was the one with the redirection iirc and that only got unlocked like last night so we didn't really get to use it.

[ChibiBear]

Yup, hence why they were both redirected and killed, just to be safe

[ChibiBear]

Lol Nico, I decided to take the high road on this one but I respect your approach also

[ChibiBear]

Lmao there's a Rick and Morty screenshot out there that perfectly encapsulates what I think about this argument

This is my last mafia game as a player, although I will still be sticking around to mod games. Playing mafia is just... Not for me. Actively observing is way more entertaining and also way less likely to give me an aneurysm.

Regardless of how little I deserved the victory, it wasn't our fault that town imploded on itself so I'm still counting it as a victory. Going out on a high note woot woot!

[ChibiBear]

You can be whoever you want to be, I believe in you!

[ChibiBear]

Thanks, I'm sure I will! ^^

[ChibiBear]

I have no idea what snowed means!

On Day 1 I was just going with the flow and trying to let you guys argue as much as possible (without looking like I was encouraging it

too

much) to save me the effort tbh. I picked your side mostly because it had less supporters and also you were

ever so slightly

more sympathetic

Sadly I don't have the skill/experience/patience to run anything even half as creative as this, but I do have a mini normal going into signups soon.

[ChibiBear]

Nibbui I missed you! If it makes you feel any better you almost caught me. It was pure luck that I'd just finished a town game where I failed really badly and was able to use that as an example to convince you otherwise

Lmao there's a Rick and Morty screenshot out there that perfectly encapsulates what I think about this argument

This is my last mafia game as a player, although I will still be sticking around to mod games. Playing mafia is just... Not for me. Actively observing is way more entertaining and also way less likely to give me an aneurysm.

Regardless of how little I deserved the victory, it wasn't our fault that town imploded on itself so I'm still counting it as a victory. Going out on a high note woot woot!

Tfw you've been on site for 4 months and have already retired

They grow up so fast nowadays

Has it been 4 months already? Time flies! (Nah but I played for like almost a year back in 2014)

[ChibiBear]

Aww yess a successful pocketing

[ChibiBear]

As the top pair? Still a town victory yay!

Still dude, I didn’t know for sure that ‘short’ was scum until after the pairs were confirmed but wow was I glad that I trusted my instincts on that one.

[ChibiBear]

I remember going back checking my ISO and being shocked on how unexpectedly right I was about that. I mean yeah I failed really bad at the other 2 scum but I totally got it right on the one that mattered most

[ChibiBear]

Nah man I mean you pretty much solved the entire game for us otherwise so kudos. Couldn't have asked for a better IC.

But I will hold on to my little bit of pride for correctly suspecting 'short' ahead of time