Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame

[Elbirn]

I did not at any point claim to be a brilliant man

[mutantdevle]

If you're town, I don't like those odds. 1 against, what? 4? In a SCAVENGER HUNT?

I really really don't like this post. Why would you say 4? It really just comes across as though you are trying to pretend that you have as little information as possible which is incredibly sketchy. With nothing to suggest otherwise, I see no logical reason as to why you'd possibly think there are 4 scum instead of 3.

[Varsoon]

It's a 13p game, means there is probably 4 scum to balance against the town powercreep.

[Varsoon]

Or 3.5.
This setup would make a lot of sense with a traitor.

[mutantdevle]

Even if Kokichi is scum, in a Scavanger hunt I suppose scum already have the upperhand anyway, the odds that they're going to be winning are pretty high.

Could you explain this a little more please?

[mutantdevle]

I'm hard against policy lynching people because they want to play the game the moderator designed.

Where did you get the idea that people want to policy lynch those who don't want to just let kokichi win? I'm under the impression that most people intend that we all just play the minigame anyway.

[Varsoon]

There was a proposed plan of lynching anyone who got the prize who wasn't Kokichi.

[mutantdevle]

@Nibbui, as I understand it, you were scum reading me off of a miscommunication and we actually have near enough the same opinion on whether or not we should let Kokichi win. Now that I've better explained my thoughts, has your opinion changed or do you still think I'm scum for X reasons?

Furthermore, unless I've got the wrong impression, Elbirn has the exact opinion that you were scum reading me for:

Yeah I'm 100% against "leashing" the person who wins the minigame, Nibbui you can go kick rocks

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that.

So why aren't you criticising them?

I think I know your answers to each of these questions, however, I want to see if I'm thinking correctly. There are bonus points available for your answers to these questions if it turns out that we are indeed thinking along the same wavelength.

[mutantdevle]

yeah but in Open 720 Mutant started this setup talk and there he sounded just as intellectually dishonest as he sounded here to me.

I scum read him there right off the bat and surprisingly he really was scum.

I'm not saying this is the same case at all or that I'm good on reading Mutant's alignment, it can even be very silly indeed, but dunno, I don't feel good about it right now.

When I first read this post I thought you just read this game, but you were in it?

[Nibbui]

Even if Kokichi is scum, in a Scavanger hunt I suppose scum already have the upperhand anyway, the odds that they're going to be winning are pretty high.

Could you explain this a little more please?

You realize that if I remember right you actually already had reached the same conclusion in a past post right? .-.

But ok, I can be wrong but sounds simply:

If all the minigame is about finding these 40 things, they can organize themselves to instead to unlock a certain scum buddy, and can divide searching 40 items by 2, 3 or 4. Therefore each of them have to only find around 14 items to make one of them win. That's a

huge

advantage.

Even if they could only divide it between 2, it would be a huge benefit.

They can even divide in less obvious ways if some of them aren't that active but I'm not going to give them info for free, even if it's easy to figure it out.

I don't see how a barely organized scumteam isn't winning this or at least coming very close to it.

It depends a lot though on how fast we can finish the minigame? if it's a matter of 1 hour to find everything, it's more a question of who is going to be online when the minigame start.

[MariaR]

girls girls you're both pretty.

[Nibbui]

yeah but in Open 720 Mutant started this setup talk and there he sounded just as intellectually dishonest as he sounded here to me.

When I first read this post I thought you just read this game, but you were in it?

I'm the owner of the Fumuki/Yuurei accounts as well.

@Nibbui, as I understand it, you were scum reading me off of a miscommunication and we actually have near enough the same opinion on whether or not we should let Kokichi win. Now that I've better explained my thoughts, has your opinion changed or do you still think I'm scum for X reasons?

Furthermore, unless I've got the wrong impression, Elbirn has the exact opinion that you were scum reading me for:

Yeah I'm 100% against "leashing" the person who wins the minigame, Nibbui you can go kick rocks

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that.

So why aren't you criticising them?

1 - Their tone and way of saying it are very different and more straightfoward
2 - My problem with you wasn't about not letting Kokichi win, it was your thought process to come to that conclusion and how your plan in case that Kokichi won sounded. If you only had said the "I only want to play the minigame" part I wouldn't see a problem there at all.

[mutantdevle]

It's a 13p game, means there is probably 4 scum to balance against the town powercreep.

Or 3.5.
This setup would make a lot of sense with a traitor.

How do you know that the town's PRs aren't just weak? I personally don't think either of the things you've said there are logical conclusions to make. Maybe that's just my limited meta of expecting 3 scum in every 13p game and I acknowledge that you know more about setup design than I do. However, I still think that you said 4 in an attempt to appear less knowledgeable of the setup and your post here just gives me a strong impression that your motivation for that was a scummy one.

[mutantdevle]

There was a proposed plan of lynching anyone who got the prize who wasn't Kokichi.

fair enough. Though that was for specifically if we all agreed to let kokichi win.

[mutantdevle]

1 - Their tone and way of saying it are very different and more straightfoward
2 - My problem with you wasn't about not letting Kokichi win, it was your thought process to come to that conclusion and how your plan in case that Kokichi won sounded. If you only had said the "I only want to play the minigame" part I wouldn't see a problem there at all.

I thought that your problem was that you thought I wanted Kokichi to choose who they wanted to empower rather than voting?

My 'plan' was me giving various reasons not to let kokichi win and giving my opinion on what we'd need to do if he did. These are both things that needed saying. First of all, just saying "I wanna play the mini" both neglects my other reasons for holding my opinion that kokichi shouldn't win and fails to convince anyone else that kokichi shouldn't be given a free win. If no one else shared my opinion, I wouldn't be able to just play the mini as I'd be lynched for not following the plan. The 'what if kokichi does win' statements also needed saying because we need to know how we're going to handle the situation if kokichi wins on his own accord anyway. So my question is, what's so scummy about thinking about that kind of stuff? Do you think that I shouldn't be planning ahead? If so, why does doing so make me scum?

[Nibbui]

Mutant, your condensed posts give me headaches honestly, it feels as if the discussion isn't progressing at all, but regressing.

and I think I said and felt a similar thing in Open 720 as well. However maybe you're just like that as town as well.

What sounded scummy to me was that you tried to make the idea of Kokichi a free win sound bad with misleading arguments or not-fully-thought arguments imo. What you seem to love to try to do as scum. Giving Kokichi the win here in certain conditions would be very helpful, and unhappily, we don't have these conditions at least for now. However, you tried to convince that it was a bad plan even before knowing or not if the winner was publicly announced.

It sounded your main reason for not wanting to let Kokichi win was something else, but you anyway tried to make it sound like it was a very rational and advantageous decision. As you did with the suggestion of the viggings back then.

In the end of the day I'm kinda tired of this talk tbh, I wish we would rather move somewhere else and let time dictate how I read you from now on.

[Nibbui]

Also, you can say that you meant this or that as much as you want, but when you said this:

If we do decide that we should just be letting Kokichi win here then the less we say about our opinions on it the better.

It seemed to not have the nicest of intentions. But I'll take NSG's advice and not focus on this now. Let's keep going and who knows, I might town read you.

[Nibbui]

and sorry if I was rude, it wasn't my intention, however sometimes it happens in mafia games I guess.

[mutantdevle]

What sounded scummy to me was that you tried to make the idea of Kokichi a free win sound bad with misleading arguments or not-fully-thought arguments imo. What you seem to love to try to do as scum. Giving Kokichi the win here in certain conditions would be very helpful, and unhappily, we don't have these conditions at least for now. However, you tried to convince that it was a bad plan even before knowing or not if the winner was publicly announced.

I personally think this is an unfair criticism because I don't believe anything I said was misleading in the slightest - at most, my thoughts weren't laid it in the most preferable order which led to some confusion. I also don't understand why it was so bad to consider giving the free win to kokichi to be a bad thing before the question of public announcement was brought into play.

I'd also caution you on considering giving kokichi a free win later in the game. Kokichi's role is first and foremost a trap. It sounds all well and good having 2 people unlock the quest but only having 1 town work towards the quest whilst all 3 scum are working on it pretty much guarantees scum will win. And in that sense, I think that giving kokichi a free win is actually pro-scum. I think using kokichi's role should only be used as a last resort in the late game. Forgive me if I've gone on about this whole topic a little too much but mechanical solving has always been my preference and if I'm not around to restate these opinions when they come to matter then I'd at least want them to be a prominent part of my iso so people can be reminded of these points.

[jjh927]

Did you ask the mod if it was public or not?

@MOD: IS THE WINNER OF THE MINIGAME MADE PUBLIC OR NO?

Can't say

[Firebringer]

girls girls you're both pretty.

Am I?

[Gamma Emerald]

It's not even about letting Kokichi win or not. It's how you're theorizing we should let Kokichi decide if we let him win.

If you're so suspicious of Kokichi being scum, I don't think it would be a good idea to let him decide for himself.

This game works by plurality vote and therefore I don't see a problem with deciding who gets unlocked by plurality votes.

Also, I indeed do not want to get unlocked because my role is simply kinda useless.

Hmm this makes sense
I’ve been skimming a lot of this discussion btw due to it being kinda obnoxious.

[Gamma Emerald]

all the neighbourhoods were generated after the game started.

Oh, I see.

I wasn't invited to any though, sad.

Also who is the utter T H O T who didn't add me to a neighborhood

Somebody masonize me those are fun

I think it's probably best that people shouldn't be saying whether or not RC neighbourised them.

Why do you think RC created the hoods mentioned so far?

[Elbirn]

Can we stop talking about the minigame now and start playing Mafia?

Someone help me I'm very lost

[Varsoon]

Read my walls, they'll help.
I actually have a ton of trouble remembering anything pre-minigame discussion and that's an issue