Mini 2063 - Rapier Upick Shuffle [Game Over]

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Fractured

[GuiltyLion]

Our hydra not signing is more of a tool for us to read the game better.

[GuiltyLion]

Do it

I think eddie is a great player and a huge asset if town

I don't like you goading him to replace out, why would you do that?

[GuiltyLion]

Hey, how'about we move beyond all that garbage and try to have fun in this game without making things personal?

yeah big +1 to this, I didn't really mean to stir a pot there other than get more background from Alonzo himself on where he was coming from, I'm satisfied now

also the image I posted was the LA Noire "Press X to Doubt" meme

[GuiltyLion]

I acc think Implo is scum

I don't

also did you miss the Brigitte post about town!Reality Check or are you disregarding it?

[GuiltyLion]

Can she let you sort me as well

[GuiltyLion]

the cheese wagon isn't bad and I can see myself on it later

but I kinda want to ride out my Fractured vote for a bit still

[GuiltyLion]

that's not the question you should be asking

[GuiltyLion]

Guilty Lion usually has quite well elaborated pushed from my experience, quite the opposite to whatever this is.

don't worry, the elaborate pushes will come in time

[GuiltyLion]

Implo, Reality, MS, Brig have given me some townvibes.

RC/Vars give me townpings but I want to look more at them first.

need to read GL, Alonzo, RC, mbaki and Parm more

I would like to townread you if you are town

but this is a lot of townreads and no real effort at making any kind of scumread or game advancing content

can you "read more" those names you listed ASAP and perhaps break down more specific reads on them and drop a vote

especially interested in reads on mbaki and Parm

thanks in advance

[GuiltyLion]

not really interested in the Brigitte/Reality Check/Radiant discussion except to affirm that I buy both of Brigitte's/Reality Check's claims regarding eachother and have them both as town

[GuiltyLion]

Hey GL what's YOUR parm read

Decent odds of scum

But I don't have enough townreads yet to feel great about it, some of the stuff that pings me may just be general awkwardness

[GuiltyLion]

Fair enough

I don't necessarily scum read RC anymore!

Buddying

[GuiltyLion]

Like this, which just is like. The first line is like "look at me, i'm also one of the people who knows people in this game and is interacting w/ them to develop reads." And the second line is kind of a garbage reason to be skeptical of someone, ish? And specifically picking out mbaki and parm is like "look at me, i can choose an arbitrary subset of people because i am Town and as Town i am interested in some players more than others" and etc.

Everything is going to look scummy if you assume a priori that I'm doing it with a scum agenda

It looks to me like you don't actually disagree with anything I've said or most of my reads, so why assume that they're fake? That should be a reason enough not to d1 lynch me.

[GuiltyLion]

i truly think gl/parm is just caught svs

This is gonna be that micro where you thought I was scum with shaddowez all over again

[GuiltyLion]

Alonzo is the player there I would like to lynch on principle, but GL is scummier

I would like you to lay down what you think it is that I've done that is scummy

[GuiltyLion]

Also I don't find Alonzo scummy

[GuiltyLion]

Parm what's your current read on Alonzo?

you opened the game saying he's scum that didn't believe I was scum, then you say I'm scum and didn't revisit your read on him at all while giving townreads on other more active players

[GuiltyLion]

Varsoon I think you're town but I also think implosion's town

can I sell you onto Fractured instead

[GuiltyLion]

Parm what's your current read on Alonzo?

99 Alonzo pulls a thin justification for his RVS vote on GL
105 Either a 'OMG HES PRESSURING ME' or just trying to create a wagon
117 and 120 bad, the scum would be mbaki in this line of thinking not GL
243 was maybe a good point but also maybe nitpicking trying to look for fault in otherwise fine play, especially considering Reality Check is a hydra
255 renewing the thin justification for GL vote
258 is the worst kind of meta read
83 87 89 97 100 148 180 227 238 250 252 are all filler posts.

Damn, maybe he is scum. I had the impression from the filler posts that he was just being kind of frivolous but he's actually been pretty insistent on pushing GL for dubious reasons. 105 pushes one of my harder TRs (evidence? I can do closer reading, it's all mostly gut from one reading).

this is not really the conclusion I was expecting, nor one that I agree with

buuuut I'm not sure what to make of it

[GuiltyLion]

Start selling, maybe?

this is likely coming soon, but I want to hear some more from Enter

[GuiltyLion]

Reality Check you mentioned earlier that Taly was sounding town to you personality wise with their latest few posts

I don't want to misread that slot in a way that axiomatically fucks up my game state view, but they're currently my primary scumread by a significant margin

assuming they are town, how much content/posting from them do you think it would take for you to get to the point of a strongly confident townread - could you get there on D1?

[GuiltyLion]

RC you're frankly just bad at reading me

I can't remember a single game we've played recently where you've correctly townread me

if you're town here that'll be three in a row of you paranoia scumreading me for no reason

my scum game is not that good

and if my associatives with your scumreads are sloppy that makes me even more likely town

[GuiltyLion]

which is good, and I hope we can keep it that way

[GuiltyLion]

you don't have to WK me just don't deathtunnel me D1 and we'll be fine

[GuiltyLion]

sorry I'm probably being overly fussy about scumreads on me at this point

wasn't really expecting implosion to pivot on me earlier and I don't want to deal with people who I don't want to lynch pushing on me today

[GuiltyLion]

However, while there are plenty of votes being thrown around and considerably few reads in comparison, your vote has remained on us since the beginning of the game. In fact, even while you've entertained suspicion and scumreads on other people, you haven't moved from us or added anything around stating a scumread on us. This particularly fascinates Enter who thought he had mind-melded with you in marathon mafia. He certainly expects more from this slot.

I move my vote when I feel like it'll be more productive elsewhere, and that hadn't happened yet.

The 'we aren't mindmelding' shtick is the same exact line Enter pulled as scum when pretending to scumread me in the other marathon game we played together, so I don't think that's the angle you should be taking here if you want me on your side. I am also disappointed we haven't mindmelded, but part of that is because all you'd done previously was thrown around soft townreads on easy-to-townread players and hadn't given a single tangible scumread to work with.

I like some of your other thoughts in this post though. I'm scumreading mbaki for much the same reasons and the Varsoon conflict you're describing feels believable. And I'm not really seeing a scum agenda towards townreading Parm here

UNVOTE:

[GuiltyLion]

RC you're frankly just bad at reading me

I can't remember a single game we've played recently where you've correctly townread me

if you're town here that'll be three in a row of you paranoia scumreading me for no reason

my scum game is not that good

and if my associatives with your scumreads are sloppy that makes me even more likely town

@GuiltyLion, What is the context of this post? This seems very overreaction to RCs read.

the context is I had a number of townreads (implosion, mastina) either scumreading me or angling to scumread me, and the past couple of games I've played with RC he's scumread me when I've been town - last time being Half Flag Nightless where he literally attempted his gladiator thing on me for two straight days - and I did not want to have to deal with that again in this game. I definitely overreacted a bit but I also strongly did not feel like entertaining the direction the thread was heading.

[GuiltyLion]

I agree. I am in a similar boat, this restrained posting is weird for me to get used to. How do you feel about GuiltyLion/mbaki?

mbaki has a certain flow to his posts that make it seem natural, so nothing has given me pauses. I am not sure about GuiltyLion yet.

from the scumgame I saw from Eddie when I played with him a year or two ago, he's extremely good at sounding natural tonally. I only started catching onto him halfway through D2 when I noticed he wasn't actually ever taking stances or participating substantially in important questions on game events and players. which is the same kinda vibe I've gotten from him so far this game

[GuiltyLion]

ISO skim leaves me with a strong townread on Fractured.

1. RVS mindmeld on townreads - I'd imagine scum would pick apart and attack one of the RVS posters, I was expecting to be called awkward for it.
2. 528 and 631 - Clear, transparent stances on things early in the game without any real need to. +town indicative.

this is a tremendously bad post, for the record

1 - everybody knows faking townreads as scum is easy. It also feels like unnatural/forced reasoning - "they're not playing how in this specific manner I would expect scum to play, therefore they're town"
2 - there was definite need to, because several people were scumreading them and voting them. like you're giving them town credit for doing something that either alignment would want to do to look town.

I have to think a townie - especially players of Auro/volxen caliber - would see that a scum!Fractured could fake this level of content so far and would have more paranoia than a "strong townread" after an ISO skim. this feels like a fabricated townread because they already decided previously that they didn't want to scumread Fractured slot

VOTE: Michael Scott

[GuiltyLion]

i'm not gonna push that too hard

why not

[GuiltyLion]

Players who I believe have an extremely high probability of being town:

mbaki
Reality Check
GuiltyLion
Brigette
implosion
Michael Scott

I think Varsoon is scum.

why mbaki/Michael Scott

you don't need to give me an essay but a one liner or two on how you can rule out those two from being scum

[GuiltyLion]

GL i want to know your confidence in your scumread on me

in an objective sense it's fairly weak

but relative to most of the other players it's significant, at this point i don't really see a world where you work your way into my townbloc at the expense of somebody else without flips

do you agree with the assessment that you've been around this whole game so far but haven't really done anything to shape it? like I don't have a sense at all of who you actually townread or scumread

[GuiltyLion]

I want to state again that I'm against an Alonzo wagon

the timing of his townreads/questions does indicate to me a level of genuine game-solving. posts like 206, 470, 490, 701 all registering on my town radar

and I felt his push on me was fair

[GuiltyLion]

@Radiant - 467 and 468 don't really strike me as posts that scum would make

generally both he and Alonzo feel like D1 lynchbait

I might still come around on Parm but I wanna see more of who jumps on that wagon first

[GuiltyLion]

what do you think about my point about Michael Scott

[GuiltyLion]

I want to state again that I'm against an Alonzo wagon

the timing of his townreads/questions does indicate to me a level of genuine game-solving. posts like 206, 470, 490, 701 all registering on my town radar

and I felt his push on me was fair

What's your read on Varsoon?

Cheers.

I'm starting to scumread Varsoon myself

did you answer my question about your townreads on mbaki/michael scott?

[GuiltyLion]

Does anyone townread parmigiano

Can they explain why

Parmigiana how do you feel about my push on you?

@Radiant - 467 and 468 don't really strike me as posts that scum would make

generally both he and Alonzo feel like D1 lynchbait

I might still come around on Parm but I wanna see more of who jumps on that wagon first

also I still want to hear your thoughts on Michael Scott, especially that post I called out.

[GuiltyLion]

this is a tremendously bad post, for the record

1 - everybody knows faking townreads as scum is easy. It also feels like unnatural/forced reasoning - "they're not playing how in this specific manner I would expect scum to play, therefore they're town"
2 - there was definite need to, because several people were scumreading them and voting them. like you're giving them town credit for doing something that either alignment would want to do to look town.

I have to think a townie - especially players of Auro/volxen caliber - would see that a scum!Fractured could fake this level of content so far and would have more paranoia than a "strong townread" after an ISO skim. this feels like a fabricated townread because they already decided previously that they didn't want to scumread Fractured slot

"They *could* do this as scum, hence you can't townread them for it!"

You ignore that:
1. It's an early AF townread which is obviously subject to re-evaluation.
2. Picking stances in this way is how I begin the game usually.
3. They townread virtually everyone in that RVS interaction IIRC and not just me, saying I townread them just for townreading me is disingenuous.

this is also a bad reply - I'm progressively more confident on scum!Michael Scott at this point

Quote is a strawman of the argument I'm making. I'm not really saying people

can't

townread Fractured, rather the point is that your reasons for a "strong" townread on Fractured were notably weak in a way that doesn't really make sense from a townie.

1 - until/unless you actually re-evaluate, this means nothing. and it's not a counter to my point that the townread is bad to begin with
2 - cool, same. your justification for that stance remains extremely sketchy
3 - I didn't say anything about who they townread, had nothing to do with you. More just that saying "we RVS mindmelded on townreads" isn't at all a compelling reason to townread someone unless there's more to why you think those particular townreads are town-indicative.

[GuiltyLion]

You didn't absolve your read on us in 806, where you stated a reason to townread and a reason to scumread us (based mostly on a read conflict and a line Enter has said as scum), even though you were telling people you wanted to sell them on voting us, but you didn't follow up on that at all. 486

What changed from this point?

you actually gave scumreads and better townreads that I could vibe with and imagine coming from town in your slot

When this hydra noted you've kept your vote on us, you vote MS over how fabricated you deem his townread on us to be, one of the few people who has resisted the scumreads here. (Vars and Johnny are only other people I've seen state one) I believe its validity because MS-scum has nothing to gain from that post.

I don't see what MS-scum gains from that read either necessarily, but I do know that the way he gave it looks awfully scummy

So I don't understand your points on MS fabricating a townread. Auro/Volxen both don't have a lot of first-hand experience with either head, so why do you expect them to know we WOULD be scum?

You don't evaluate the post links of this hydra that MS made to back-up his townread. 528 631

It's not about Auro/Volxen's meta with you specifically, it's more about what I know of both players. Auro is incredibly insightful and capable as town, and Volxen I've seen go deep into trying to clear one of his pet townreads at the expense of paranoia of two otherwise rather obvtown slots (Auro/CoA) because he was so careful about accidentally town-clearing a potential deepwolf, here. I just can't comfortably grok that they would so casually shelve you as strong-town off what you'd contributed so far. It's an alarmingly bad justification for a townread.

I don't really care about the content of those posts, I care that they suggested you "had no need" to post them. Do you really agree that scum!you wouldn't feel bothered to give some better town-looking reads at that point?

The bolded is an assumption MS had planned to townread us prior to that post, off what basis?

Because MS isn't paranoid enough over our slot?

yes.

[GuiltyLion]

Parm's wagon doesn't make sense to me. I don't see what Parm's done that merits being lynched. I've tried to ask people who I'm more familiar with and their answers haven't been satisfying.

Alonzo, I can get, but that's just cus the guy has a bit of an abrasive devil-may-care style to his posts. Dunno that it makes him scum.

Honestly, I'm fine with either flipping, given that they could be scum just playing in a way that doesn't ping to me and it'll give plenty of info that actually might drive my engagement towards scumhunting based on wagon comp. I just don't wanna be complicit in those lynches because then I get less information at the point of flip.

this pings me as real scummy

Varsoon doesn't want to commit to calling either slot as scum, but says he can flip either of them anyway. There's no care whatsoever about avoiding a lynch on town here.

[GuiltyLion]

and before anyone gets into semantics on that last post, obviously I see that he's saying he doesn't want to vote on either lynch. It's the "I'm fine with either flipping" that bothers me because he's not actually going to bat for slots that he thinks could be town. It's even worse than just sheeping/voting them because he's pushing the lynch along while trying to abdicate responsibility at the same time

[GuiltyLion]

there is higher town motivation to advance the game and post solid reads instead of mucking around, and is a fine reason (again) to townread them.

still skim catching up but I hope a few other people called this out

[GuiltyLion]

oh, man, that sounds a lot like a scum tactic that would be used to suffocate outlying town voices that are right.

it could just as easily be a town tactic used to suffocate scum voices

[GuiltyLion]

A lot of his play around suspicion on him feels like he's repeatedly going "a-ha, this reason to suspect me is actually invalid!" in a way that doesn't actually meaningfully engage with people, doesn't actually refute the points they were making, doesn't try to sort them. He's asking questions or making statements that don't lead anywhere interesting.

this (referring to Michael Scott) + pretty much everything in 1085 is absolutely in line with how I've been feeling, with a few extra points I hadn't even considered

[GuiltyLion]

I'm willing to sheep Reality Check on town!Fractured for today, especially if Reality Check is more confident on Fractured than Brigitte - who I could compromise on if Radiant is absolutely sure on

my first choice is Michael Scott or Varsoon lynches today

I'm townreading Johnny English more than I was previously despite still disagreeing with a number of his reads

I'll be around for the rest of the day

[GuiltyLion]

actually nah I re-ISO'd Brigitte and I'm not feeling scum there

[GuiltyLion]

I think Fractured is a pretty easy read for town and it's odd how, if I follow, you scumread Michael Scott for obtaining the obvious and likely correct read.

-I disagree Fractured is (or was at that point in time) an "easy read" for town
-I do not scumread Michael Scott for townreading Fractured, I scumread them for the reasons they gave for townreading Fractured, as they are reasons so shallow it comes off as disingenuous
-Seriously, go look at those reasons, and their continued defense of them. "They posted reads when they didn't need to". You think that's how town forms townreads?
-Reread implosion's case on Michael Scott as well

[GuiltyLion]

You've asked some good questions that I had forgotten about

and I thought rereading your interaction with Radiant from his point of view may have been illuminating on what he was talking about with respect to this:

like brigitte is transparently playing in the manner that pisses me off the most. his strategy as scum has openly been to try to antagonize me as much as possible to throw me off my game. his scumread on me is bullshit. his townread on parm is bullshit.

after parm brigitte is next.

but then I didn't see the "antagonize as much as possible", the walkbacks in 330, 334, 345 look genuine

[GuiltyLion]

you're fucking high if you think that brigitte says something as stupid as 'i townread you but still feel like you are trying to manipulate me' regarding my actions there.

I wish
lmao

[GuiltyLion]

oh, man, that sounds a lot like a scum tactic that would be used to suffocate outlying town voices that are right.

it could just as easily be a town tactic used to suffocate scum voices

Marginalizing voice is never a town tactic because town needs content to gauge alignments.

I've definitely marginalized voices before as town, especially if they're pushing on me. I remember in ONUW5 (on this site) I got so annoyed with scum!podoboq that I felt my only option was to tell him explicitly to shut up, because he was clogging the thread with misleading sophistry meant to screw over the town

If implosion is town and you've done nothing but pop into the thread every so often to say he's scum, with no real reasoning given, why wouldn't he marginalize that? It's not useful content to him in any way whatsoever, especially if he's already reading you scum for it

[GuiltyLion]

A lot of his play around suspicion on him feels like he's repeatedly going "a-ha, this reason to suspect me is actually invalid!" in a way that doesn't actually meaningfully engage with people, doesn't actually refute the points they were making, doesn't try to sort them. He's asking questions or making statements that don't lead anywhere interesting.

this (referring to Michael Scott) + pretty much everything in 1085 is absolutely in line with how I've been feeling, with a few extra points I hadn't even considered

Examples of questions that "don't lead anywhere"? Everything I asked was to gain an answer I could evaluate.

Also ofc I'll call out invalid reasons on invalid reasons. Activity tell - NAI, Robot tone - NAI.

Also it's probably likely that scum doesn't have sword flavor.

What does this mean?

is this seriously all you have to offer

@Johnny English, @Radiant, @Fractured - why do you not see this as scummy as I do?

@Reality Check/@Parm/@mbaki can you guys vote here

[GuiltyLion]

Hey man, when you've got scum, you hold onto that nugget.

I assumed that 3 hours ago when you commented on one of the latest posts, you had already read the thread

[GuiltyLion]

whoops sorry, wrong quote

[GuiltyLion]

what's your snap read on Varsoon

[GuiltyLion]

@Guilty: I'm competent enough as scum to produce pretty good looking content (I have a high scum winrate) (Also Varsoon can attest), after a couple recent towngames I'm sorta lost sorting-wise. I don't feel like any of the wagons are great. I feel like RC's Brigitte push is exaggerated.

word, I can sympathize with this. I do agree I've seen Auro scum play better than what you've done so far this game and I'm 100% with ya on RC's push being exaggerated (problem with RC being that he exaggerates pushes as town too)

I have to work for a bit but I'll do some thinking, I'd like to at least try to find a scumread we can agree on

[GuiltyLion]

dang we had a good run of no bans for over a month too

[GuiltyLion]

I mean we can start with Fractured again, because I still really don't think you should have townread them when you did.

if both you and Fractured are town then I'm looking at Johnny English with more suspicion

[GuiltyLion]

Both mbaki and Michael Scott are playing in approaches and manners that move the game forward.

In contrast, Alonzo is playing in a manner that moves the game backward.

I can't surmise how you can land on a townread on Alonzo for "genuine game-solving" when Michael Scott is in fact a much better example for the same reason.

I think Fractured is a pretty easy read for town and it's odd how, if I follow, you scumread Michael Scott for obtaining the obvious and likely correct read.

I don't see anything of merit from Alonzo.

like all of these claims should be of interest to you, Fractured, Alonzo, and myself

[GuiltyLion]

Part of the stated suspicions on the slot are that the reads are forced, what do you think about

RC

and

mbaki's

position on us and

Parm

?

not sure which RC you're referring to here

I trust Reality Check in this game and I think everything they've said about soul reading you is genuine

Radiant I'm iffy on, but since I don't really have you as town I didn't mind him sheeping onto you, though the timing was odd as it felt like it was after you had already passed the first wave of scrutiny. and I don't see anything inherently wrong/scummy with the "they're defending another one of my scum reads" logic for why you look bad on Parm's slot - it's extremely similar to my initial feelings regarding MS - though I also think Parm is just town so I disagree with his conclusions here.

mbaki's position didn't really stand out to me? generally he's been hopping between you/Varsoon/Michael Scott and I like all of those votes so I haven't really had any issues with him lately.

Then why back off your push on us if you think paranoia is valid? I get your points on the

MS

read, but it feels disingenuous to push him off his stance on us if you agree with that.

I go after slots that are defending my other scummy slots all the time. If I can't vibe with the reasons someone is townreading someone else, especially if it's a slot I consider scummy, then my first thought is either scum defending a buddy or scum WKing a townie.

This question also feels uncomfortable to me, like you're trying to pigeonhole my play somehow? They made a read/post that strongly stood out to me as looking fundamentally fake, so I chased it. In some ways that's independent of how I feel about your slot. And while I stopped pushing for a wagon on you explicitly, it's not like I just wrote you off as town - I was/am in the process of re-evaluating my read on you and there's always other slots to pressure and engage with. Especially if I'm wrong in my early scum reads, I want to give people space to engage with others. see my latest interaction with MS as well

[GuiltyLion]

Do you have any reason to scumread the slot?

all their early posting felt forced/awkward to me, especially the mismatch between saying Enter's excited to play and then barely posting/engaging the next couple RL days after that

I've constantly felt they've been disengaged giving safe townreads but not making waves by way of pressure/scumreads

i still get that vibe but it's not something particularly indicative and I'm willing to shelve it if Reality Check thinks this is town Taly

[GuiltyLion]

viewtopic.php?p=10811493&user_select%5B ... #p10811493



Johnny's ISO has very less filler and a lot of stances, and also attempts to rally a divided town, for example

I just don't see eye to eye with you this game I guess. "stances" aren't hard for scum to fake, it's whether those stances are genuine/town-serving that matters. he attempts to rally slots onto his desired lynch of choice, but I don't think it's a great lynch. and I think the MI6 agent persona he's using is an easy way to be charismatic and get townread while masking the fact that the arguments he's making are inherently weak

[GuiltyLion]

mbaki's position didn't really stand out to me? generally he's been hopping between you/Varsoon/Michael Scott and I like all of those votes so I haven't really had any issues with him lately.

you're going to love seeing me call varsoon and ms not scummy then

I can see the ms argument, still don't think Varsoon has done anything townie

[GuiltyLion]

I'm batting 1.000 at reading Enter (town and scum) in games I've played with him, though they were all marathons which is a different ballgame

but it's another reason why this hydra limited posting style is also frustrating to me

[GuiltyLion]

@mbaki - just 3 games it's not actually statistically significant, but I had him correctly as town twice and caught him as scum page 1 in the other game

I'm starting to feel the same way. I don't like any of the Brigitte/Alonzo/Parm lynches but the game is starting to feel murky enough that I'm worried maybe I'm wrong on a scum in the three. I don't think it's something that would change pre flips though.

outside of implo/reality check i'm still missing some absolute locktown reads which is making sorting the rest of the players hard.

and p-edit with that implosion vote, honestly the brigitte wagon looks pretty good comp wise. and thinking about it more that question about why I was townreading her may have been designed to make me look bad if she were to flip scum

[GuiltyLion]

if I just had a green check on Michael Scott or RadCow right now I'd feel so much better about a Brigitte vote

[GuiltyLion]

I'm doc, I saved RC last night

votes off me please

[GuiltyLion]

fast claim because I figure if I'm not the distraction/lynchpool today then we have good chance of just outright winning today if RadCow can focus elsewhere, and he was opening by death tunneling me so my claim was coming today sooner or later

flavor is Asuna's Lambent Light from Sword Art Online

RadiantCowbells RC whoops lol

[GuiltyLion]

I think it's one of Varsoon/Parm/Alonzo
+
mbaki is the scum bussing on the wagon

RadCow you should check my claim lol

[GuiltyLion]

oh maybe i could vote brigitte
but nahhh

the fact that you think I would ever explicitly do this as scum is exactly why you keep incorrectly scumreading me

[GuiltyLion]

Reality Check is conftown by that Brigitte flip, and they were a strong townread for me by play d1 regardless

mbaki - if you think it's best play for you right now to scumread the claimed doc then by all means continue

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: mbaki

do you think that wagon was all town?

[GuiltyLion]

down to lynch Varsoon slot as well

Varsoon->mbaki->Michael Scott is probably auto tbh

[GuiltyLion]

it's a pretty damn significant way to form reads in mafia based on making reads/guesses about the alignments of players on a scum lynch d1...

[GuiltyLion]

the lynch was quickhammered by a secret mayor, which means wagon placement isnt as much of a factor.

lol even you know this is bullshit

explain how a secret mayor changes anything about votes that were on the wagon beforehand

[GuiltyLion]

GL claimed doc and scum are informed according to brigitte's pm so maybe they are informed town doesn't have a doctor but w.e i'm going to assume he's bad town for now and ignore it

"oh no I've realized I'm going to lose my mislynch I was pushing!"

you saw me in vanilluxe you know i'm not bad town

[GuiltyLion]

explain how a secret mayor changes anything about votes that were on the wagon beforehand

The mayoring happened when JE cast his vote, I think.

agree, JE is unimpeachably town as well

[GuiltyLion]

MS what do you think of my "mbaki is the busser" theory

[GuiltyLion]

I have been informed Brigitte is town.

to affirm that I buy both of Brigitte's/Reality Check's claims regarding eachother and have them both as town

This post (by GL) still pings me for some reason. I felt that Reality's claim on Brigitte wasn't serious, and GL very readily bought

both

of their claims.

if I'm scum - I know that Brigitte and Reality Check are lying, and that at some point Brigitte might get flipped/dunked. so I really don't see how readily buying those claims would make me

more

likely scum FYPOV. I'd probably feel more pressure to kinda doubtcast it or pretend to be unsure because I'd know it's a lie.

I seriously just thought they were town lovers or masons, if they somehow made it obvious that they weren't prior to my 360 then I missed it somewhere

[GuiltyLion]

I still believe mbaki's good odds of scum especially considering the latest point about how Brigitte was focusing attention on low presence posters - he tried to say "you think I'm scum by the way I pushed Brigitte??" as if that's some ridiculous thing but he didn't push Brigitte at all, merely sheeped onto her once it was clear RC wasn't gonna back down. I'm very skeptical it was an all town bloc onto scum lynch D1 in a 13 player game even with Johnny's extra votes.

but I'm fine with lynching off wagon today if that's what we want to do

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Lovebird

-tries to shade Reality Check early D1
-votes Alonzo mislynch wagon
-tries to break down Johnny's townread on me
-no quality scumreads at any point

[GuiltyLion]

also fi Creature's town then Lovebird's townread on Varsoon feels like scum townreading town

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

There was no kill last night. I am claiming to have protected RadiantCowbells last night. Unless there is a CC or any other claim regarding how there was no kill last night, I should be treated as confirmed town. So why are you voting an un-cc'd protective claim and why do you consider my Lovebird case and vote bad?

[GuiltyLion]

The Lovebird votes are antitown regardless of Lovebird's alignment

Also this is just bad thinking. if Lovebird is scum then they're automatically pro-town votes and if Lovebird is a mislynch it still puts pressure on scum to take a stance on what they know to be a bad wagon

[GuiltyLion]

My locktown block {RC, RC, mbaki, Implosion}
Second degree townblock {JE, Fractured, Parm}
GL: {GL}

Leaving

{MS, Alonzo, Lovebird, Creature}

I'm mostly good with this except I really don't think Alonzo is scum and I think high odds of scum!mbaki if town!MS. why is mbaki locktown? like I get tonally he's very good and he's posting a metric shitton but I've seen his scumgame before and he did much of the same things there, I still don't think he's convincingly sold his slot town.

I've only been skimming this game sporadically so probably missing some stuff, more to come in a little bit

[GuiltyLion]

Michael Scott

seems pretty townie to me.

I can do this, though.

VOTE: Johnny English

didn't you say a few days ago that we shouldn't lynch on wagon today? why vote the person who put 3 votes to turbo hammer on scum?

[GuiltyLion]

also lynching someone off the principal of bussing right now is a very good way to lynch town with the current numbers and gamestate.

so {Johnny/MS/mbaki/implo} are looking a bit more town to me at this point.

how and why did you evolve from this to voting Johnny

[GuiltyLion]

I don't think we need to wagon/lynch mbaki right now because I doubt he has the ability or the game state to carry all the way through LYLO at this point, just want to repeatedly highlight that I don't think he should be locktowned

lynch today should be in Lovebird/Creature if it were up to me. I can see why an Alonzo wagon would also be a good idea in terms of POE/solve but I just gut read him town and don't want to be on that one

mbaki town readers, just ask yourselves if you can remember any strong stances he's actually taken or notably game-advancing content he's produced. he knows how to interact constantly and be a presence in the thread but it's all kinda surface level stuff when you ask yourself if it really is unlikely to come from scum

[GuiltyLion]

Fractured

isn't on the list either.

Why would I put down people who I know the alignment of?

man

this is a weirdly defensive post

I don't want to entirely walk back the townread I was getting on this slot but why wouldn't you just say you forgot

like if you were really leaving off the obvtown then you should have RadCow off of it too because I docced him and so he's literally town in all universes except those of RadCow/GL scumteam

[GuiltyLion]

eh yeah I misread the tone I guess, whoops

[GuiltyLion]

I get that we have cold feet about Lovebird because she site flaked but I think even the slot's D1 play has a lot of scummy behavior in it here

mbaki's claiming gambitry shit is pointless and stupid and too full of himself because lack of NK makes RC pretty explicitly obvtown but I guess him doing it feels town

there's likely a scum being townread somewhere but I'm not really concerned with it at the moment

townbloc of RC/RC/mbaki/Parm/Alonzo/JE/GL actually feels pretty good

[GuiltyLion]

like say Lovebird is scum and there's one scum deep wolfing in MS/Fractured/implosion/Creature

is that such an unbelievable game state really

[GuiltyLion]

i mean no one has been pushing or voting you since you replaced in so

what's your point

[GuiltyLion]

Also, I dont think Vars replaces out of a scum slot (now Creat's slot).

yeah there's no universe where town!Performer says this

[GuiltyLion]

Why are you talking and making reads based on the circumstances of how Varsoon replaced when you obviously haven't read the circumstances of how he was replaced

[GuiltyLion]

EBWOP- talking *about

[GuiltyLion]

Taly feels much less willing to vote this, as there had been no resistance toward the wagon

if there was no resistance to a Lovebird/Performer lynch, we'd be in Night 2 already

[GuiltyLion]

I got prodded and skimmed through and I really don't feel there's much to comment on

Performer slot is obvscum at this point. I don't see why we don't just lynch it at this point.

Partner in Fractured/implosion/insomnia/maayyyybe Alonzo

if I'm wrong about Performer then I'll rethink and maybe look at Creature again but I'm genuinely townreading his latest content. The inconsistency that Fractured tried to question in 2558 I don't see as scum-indicative at all and I'm wondering why Fractured looked at that and not Performer's reversal on Creature slot

[GuiltyLion]

damn I was right about Fractured with my opening scumread after all!

lol sorry scum, tough game

yeah triple voter is hard to deal with. i get the idea due to the parries and don't want to say it's definitely unbalanced, but it did make lynching scum easier

[GuiltyLion]

also sorry again for whining about scumreads on me d1, I try not to do that normally but I didn't want to have to claim