[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[yellowbounder]

Cautious Mafia

3 Mafia
3 CPR Doctors (if target not NKed, then kills target)
1 Gunsmith (tells if target can kill, so CPR Doc, or Mafia, yes; townie, no)
5 Townies

I'm tempted to allow the CPR doctors to cancel each other out if there's an even number of people, and the person isn't otherwise killed. (So, 1 CPR kills, 2 CPR lives, 3 CPR kills)

[ooba]

Cautious Mafia

3 Mafia
3 CPR Doctors (if target not NKed, then kills target)
1 Gunsmith (tells if target can kill, so CPR Doc, or Mafia, yes; townie, no)
5 Townies

I'm tempted to allow the CPR doctors to cancel each other out if there's an even number of people, and the person isn't otherwise killed. (So, 1 CPR kills, 2 CPR lives, 3 CPR kills)

A CPR doc doesn't have a gun , only injections ..

[ooba]

Paint Stained Mafia

3 Mafia
3 Artisans
6 Painters/Vanilla

Each person has a unique colour/base coat, which they stain a person upon targeting them.
All painters MUST target someone at night, who is stained with their colour.
A person can be stained with multiple distinct colours.

An Artisan determines all stains upon a person, as well as their base coat, but in no particular order (he also stains the target). He can target deceased individuals.

A person knows their "unique colour", and the person's colour is revealed to everyone upon death.

---

I think this setup is balanced. The mafia member performing the kill will leave his colour on the body, but the Artisan will detect all colours upon the body, thus determining the possible subjects. Should the Artisan target someone who has never been targeted before, he would detect the person's base colour, (but he would also then leave his own colour).

Thoughts?

Random Fact: There are exactly 12 colours in this forum, apart from white and black.

After talking to CDB about this setup, we had a few ideas.

Keep the staining mechanic, but make it an otherwise normal game.

3 Mafia
1 SK
3 Artisans
1 Vigilante
1 Doc
3 Townies

(For more interesting results, it could be possible that when A targets B, B get stained with A's colour, and A gets stained with B's colour. Then, you can't automatically tell the difference.)

Just a thought - you should give the scum false colour claims - since there will be a mass colour claim at the start of the game ..

Nominate

Ah, but colours are unique, and random.

A

Green

colour has no impact on alignment, and the Vigilante could be

Violet

.

Although that gives me pause for thought, because a mass colour claim may break the game, since then any one not telling the truth is found, and then the Artisans essentially become much more powerful.

If you made one of the Mafia ,a Mafia Artisan, and allowed the Doctor to determine Base Colour of target, and a person does not know their own colour?

I'm just throwing out suggestions here. Not to mention, what about mutual staining.

I think giving the mafia an artisan would imbalance the game ..

An artisan can determine one killer role on Night 2 (by targeting the Night 1 killed) ... Maybe mutual staining and reducing the mafia by one would balance things out ..

[Max]

Cautious Mafia

3 Mafia
3 CPR Doctors (if target not NKed, then kills target)
1 Gunsmith (tells if target can kill, so CPR Doc, or Mafia, yes; townie, no)
5 Townies

I'm tempted to allow the CPR doctors to cancel each other out if there's an even number of people, and the person isn't otherwise killed. (So, 1 CPR kills, 2 CPR lives, 3 CPR kills)

Maybe "Drug Detective" can find anyone with drugs. Mafia smuggle them, CPRs inject with them.

Also With the CPR
No NK: 1 CPR kills; 2 CPR lives; 3 CPR kills
NK: 1 CPR lives; 2 CPR kills; 3 CPR lives

[yellowbounder]

I think giving the mafia an artisan would imbalance the game ..

An artisan can determine one killer role on Night 2 (by targeting the Night 1 killed) ... Maybe mutual staining and reducing the mafia by one would balance things out ..

Quote pyramid removed by the way.

Well, the Artisan COULD find a killer role on Night 2, but that's if he targets the right person.

Artisan

targets

Dead Bob

(townie,

Red

).

On this person, there are three stains (in no particular order),

Orange

,

Red

,

Olive

In order to find the killer, the Artisan needs to eliminate his colour (which he's worked out, because he sees it everywhere), eliminate the target's base colour, and know he knows the killer's colour is Olive (assuming he was NKed).

If he then targets Honest Guy (colour unknown), and finds that he's coloured

Green

,

Orange

,

Olive

, he could assume that Honest Guy is the killer. But that's if he targets that person.

Mutual staining would eventually mean that everyone's brightly coloured at the end of the game, ensuring a sort of Dethy thing.

[yellowbounder]

Cautious Mafia

3 Mafia
3 CPR Doctors (if target not NKed, then kills target)
1 Gunsmith (tells if target can kill, so CPR Doc, or Mafia, yes; townie, no)
5 Townies

I'm tempted to allow the CPR doctors to cancel each other out if there's an even number of people, and the person isn't otherwise killed. (So, 1 CPR kills, 2 CPR lives, 3 CPR kills)

Maybe "Drug Detective" can find anyone with drugs. Mafia smuggle them, CPRs inject with them.

Also With the CPR
No NK: 1 CPR kills; 2 CPR lives; 3 CPR kills
NK: 1 CPR lives; 2 CPR kills; 3 CPR lives

Yeah, I that's the sort of Gunsmith I meant.

[xyzzy]

114identity

2 SKs
4 town

The SKs know who each other are. The town wins if only SKs remain. Nightless.

Adam C9

2 scum
1 cop
1 doc
3 townies

In addition to killing, scum switch the roles of 2 protown players every night.

[Thok]

114identity

2 SKs
4 town

The SKs know who each other are. The town wins if only SKs remain. Nightless.

What happens at 2 town 2 SK or 1 town 1 SK?

[Twomz]

Small Group Mafia (Open Nightless)

Town devided into 4 groups of 3.

Group 1 - Local Government
Mafia aligned
Corrupt Mayor (Investigation Immune)
Corrupt Sherriff (Role Name Day Cop)
Local Mafia Leaders Nephew (Goon)

Each mafia member has one daykill. When a mafia member dies, remaining members get to choose a target to kill. They can converse freely amoungst themselves throughout the day.


Group 2 - Labor Union
Town aligned
Labor Union President (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed, both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes a day cop)
Factory inspector
Construction Worker


Group 3 - Medical College
Town aligned
Dean of Medicine (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes bulletproof)
Retired Doctor
Medical Student


Group 4 - Wal Mart
Town Aligned
Manager (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes vig)
Cashier
Greeter



Alternatives could be everyone but group leaders vanilla (don't change after others die), or beef up the mafia somehow and give town groups non leaders role+backup (ie. doc and nurse for med school).

[xyzzy]

114identity

2 SKs
4 town

The SKs know who each other are. The town wins if only SKs remain. Nightless.

What happens at 2 town 2 SK or 1 town 1 SK?

1)the town lynches someone. Remember, it's nightless, and the SKs aren't a team.
2)the SK wins.

[farside22]

Small Group Mafia (Open Nightless)

Town devided into 4 groups of 3.

Group 1 - Local Government
Mafia aligned
Corrupt Mayor (Investigation Immune)
Corrupt Sherriff (Role Name Day Cop)
Local Mafia Leaders Nephew (Goon)

Each mafia member has one daykill. When a mafia member dies, remaining members get to choose a target to kill. They can converse freely amoungst themselves throughout the day.


Group 2 - Labor Union
Town aligned
Labor Union President (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed, both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes a day cop)
Factory inspector
Construction Worker


Group 3 - Medical College
Town aligned
Dean of Medicine (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes bulletproof)
Retired Doctor
Medical Student


Group 4 - Wal Mart
Town Aligned
Manager (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes vig)
Cashier
Greeter



Alternatives could be everyone but group leaders vanilla (don't change after others die), or beef up the mafia somehow and give town groups non leaders role+backup (ie. doc and nurse for med school).

Nomin

ate.

I would be in this in a heartbeat

[Iron Man]

Small Group Mafia (Open Nightless)

Town devided into 4 groups of 3.

Group 1 - Local Government
Mafia aligned
Corrupt Mayor (Investigation Immune)
Corrupt Sherriff (Role Name Day Cop)
Local Mafia Leaders Nephew (Goon)

Each mafia member has one daykill. When a mafia member dies, remaining members get to choose a target to kill. They can converse freely amoungst themselves throughout the day.


Group 2 - Labor Union
Town aligned
Labor Union President (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed, both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes a day cop)
Factory inspector
Construction Worker


Group 3 - Medical College
Town aligned
Dean of Medicine (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes bulletproof)
Retired Doctor
Medical Student


Group 4 - Wal Mart
Town Aligned
Manager (knows who other two group members are, if he is killed both other members die; if all others in group die, becomes vig)
Cashier
Greeter



Alternatives could be everyone but group leaders vanilla (don't change after others die), or beef up the mafia somehow and give town groups non leaders role+backup (ie. doc and nurse for med school).

Nomin

ate.

I would be in this in a heartbeat

Second

Same here. This game looks like a lot of fun,

[xyzzy]

Town mass claims. Scum don't have fake claims. Town wins.

[gorckat]

The group leaders can't claim because they'd get day-killed, killing their subordinates, so scum and group leaders are gonna claim subordinate roles.

ADD: Or are the scum day kills only on a scum death? That makes more sense...

[farside22]

Town mass claims. Scum don't have fake claims. Town wins.

Claiming would be bad.
Claim lead role, mafia kills
claim lead role, mafia kills
claim lead role, mfaia kills
claim lead role, one mafia dies the rest kill lead role
mafia wins.

[ooba]

I think giving the mafia an artisan would imbalance the game ..

An artisan can determine one killer role on Night 2 (by targeting the Night 1 killed) ... Maybe mutual staining and reducing the mafia by one would balance things out ..

Quote pyramid removed by the way.

Well, the Artisan COULD find a killer role on Night 2, but that's if he targets the right person.

Artisan

targets

Dead Bob

(townie,

Red

).

On this person, there are three stains (in no particular order),

Orange

,

Red

,

Olive

In order to find the killer, the Artisan needs to eliminate his colour (which he's worked out, because he sees it everywhere), eliminate the target's base colour, and know he knows the killer's colour is Olive (assuming he was NKed).

If he then targets Honest Guy (colour unknown), and finds that he's coloured

Green

,

Orange

,

Olive

, he could assume that Honest Guy is the killer. But that's if he targets that person.

Mutual staining would eventually mean that everyone's brightly coloured at the end of the game, ensuring a sort of Dethy thing.

Okies - mutual staining isn't that good.
But if we had a mass color claim at the start of the day , 'Olive' would have to declare himself and he'd get caught on Night 2 - when it comes up on Dead bob.

Assuming scum are given fake color claims , when an artisan targets a scum - he would have 2 colors - one his own and one the real color of the scum - both of which wont be what he fake claimed - so he knows the person has lied - so the artisan effectively becomes a powerful cop type role.

[yellowbounder]

I think giving the mafia an artisan would imbalance the game ..

An artisan can determine one killer role on Night 2 (by targeting the Night 1 killed) ... Maybe mutual staining and reducing the mafia by one would balance things out ..

Quote pyramid removed by the way.

Well, the Artisan COULD find a killer role on Night 2, but that's if he targets the right person.

Artisan

targets

Dead Bob

(townie,

Red

).

On this person, there are three stains (in no particular order),

Orange

,

Red

,

Olive

In order to find the killer, the Artisan needs to eliminate his colour (which he's worked out, because he sees it everywhere), eliminate the target's base colour, and know he knows the killer's colour is Olive (assuming he was NKed).

If he then targets Honest Guy (colour unknown), and finds that he's coloured

Green

,

Orange

,

Olive

, he could assume that Honest Guy is the killer. But that's if he targets that person.

Mutual staining would eventually mean that everyone's brightly coloured at the end of the game, ensuring a sort of Dethy thing.

Okies - mutual staining isn't that good.
But if we had a mass color claim at the start of the day , 'Olive' would have to declare himself and he'd get caught on Night 2 - when it comes up on Dead bob.

Assuming scum are given fake color claims , when an artisan targets a scum - he would have 2 colors - one his own and one the real color of the scum - both of which wont be what he fake claimed - so he knows the person has lied - so the artisan effectively becomes a powerful cop type role.

I thought we were going with the assumption that people don't know their own colours. The only people who could work them out are Artisans. (Since their own colour would always show up when they target someone, eventually they'd work it out.)

[ooba]

I thought we were going with the assumption that people don't know their own colours. The only people who could work them out are Artisans. (Since their own colour would always show up when they target someone, eventually they'd work it out.)

Ok Ok - I'd really like to play this to see how it turns out ..

[Max]

I thought we were going with the assumption that people don't know their own colours. The only people who could work them out are Artisans. (Since their own colour would always show up when they target someone, eventually they'd work it out.)

I presumed that they would find the colour on them and then accidentally stain them so they never actually find out what colour they are unless they target themselves first.

And I've though of another idea. If you get given red and blue and your base colour is X you pass on your base plus all others on you.

[Simenon]

114identity

2 SKs
4 town

The SKs know who each other are. The town wins if only SKs remain. Nightless.

I modded this game on scumchat a year or so ago. It was fairly easily won by the town.

[yellowbounder]

I thought we were going with the assumption that people don't know their own colours. The only people who could work them out are Artisans. (Since their own colour would always show up when they target someone, eventually they'd work it out.)

I presumed that they would find the colour on them and then accidentally stain them so they never actually find out what colour they are unless they target themselves first.

And I've though of another idea. If you get given red and blue and your base colour is X you pass on your base plus all others on you.

1) No, no, staining happens before results. If a Red Artisan targets a Green Townie (who, let's just assume, hasn't been targeted before), he would get Green and Red back. Then if he targets a Yellow Mafia (was targeted by Blue Doc once), he would get Red, Yellow, and Blue.

The recurring colour of Red, and the lack of Green means the Artisan now knows his own colour, and through process of elimination, also knows that the person he targeted was Green.

2) That'll quickly destroy any information you can gain, since people will get more colourful as they go on.

[Max]

That was the point of number 2. It requires quick action or it's too late.

[Twomz]

Actually, the best way to do group mafia would be with all vanilla except group leaders.

I don't want to get into theory on it (let players do that), but I'm pretty sure mass claiming would be a BAD idea... either very few people would claim their actual roles, or everyone claims non leader group members... clearing a few guys, but also narrowing the targets for group leaders for the mafia.

Now that I think about it, it's kinda a version of assassin in the palace... but with 3 kings and lots more dying.

I think it's worth at least a trial run... but I'm not gonna do it because of my past track record of modding experiences.

[Max]

What about

Lyncher Power 1

1 Lyncher
2 Mafia
1 cop or doc
5 town (1 target)

[yellowbounder]

That was the point of number 2. It requires quick action or it's too late.

You get one set of results per night, and it takes time to work out what it means. Mashing it all together is not the answer.