Mini 2079 - Guns & Roses [Game Over]

[Something_Smart]

No alisae whyyyyy

Would we want a gun to claim if they performed the kill or does it even matter

I can't imagine that all of scum's kills failed.

[popsofctown]

Something Smart am I scum?

[popsofctown]

It's day 2 I am ready for Something_Conan I was promised great things

[implosion]

It doesn't matter if the town gun did the kill for anything other than nk speculation, and for that purpose it's probably not too messy of an assumption to assume that alisae was shot by scum/the advantage of knowing that the kill wasn't by scum is probably outweighed by the advantage of having an unclaimed named townie.

That said, Alisae's death if it was from scum kinda points to pine-town. Alisae was the only person really advocating for pine-town. E was pushing me and pops and was willing to jump on xyzzy and S_S but I still feel like pops and S_S are town. Maybe I'm wrong on pops but his posting just has so many tonal things that are annoying to fake as scum and the arc of his read on me is something that's really, really hard to fake, even if it's not exactly committal. It's possible if they're both town that scum killed alisae just to secure a pine mislynch. I don't see much reason for scum-pine to make the kill in the first place unless it's pine+pops and then idk why pine, the scum who has been lurking for an entire day phase, would come out and *hard* bus his one scumbuddy.

[implosion]

VOTE: hitogoroshi

[implosion]

In fact, the only real effort I can see is against a popular target (S_S) and two absentees (xyzzy and I.)

You and xyzzy were basically collectively holding the game up yesterday. Why shouldn't town go after you, particularly in a setup with only two scum?

[Something_Smart]

Something Smart am I scum?

I stared at your ISO for like ten minutes and couldn't come up with an answer.

Your pushes have all been weak. But, a lot of times scum will stay away from the LHF because they can get townpoints defending them later. That's my scum style. Is it yours? Who knows.
Your grandstanding on xyzzy feels like you genuinely don't know or think he'll flip town. But humorous overconfidence is something that a lot of people can fake as scum. Is that something you do? Who knows.
Alisae didn't really have a strong read on you, e had you as town and then later mentioned you as scum due to your weak push on Pine. Do you kill em for that? Who knows. Depends on your partner probably.
You have a lot of valid points. Would you be able to make those points as scum? Probably.

[Something_Smart]

Maybe the answer to those "Who knows" questions is "Pine." He professed to have some experience with you, hopefully he can weigh in.

[Pine]

In fact, the only real effort I can see is against a popular target (S_S) and two absentees (xyzzy and I.)

You and xyzzy were basically collectively holding the game up yesterday. Why shouldn't town go after you, particularly in a setup with only two scum?

Because being absent site-wide (non-games do not count, there's a very different investment metric) is NAI. It's usually due to life, and I would think you'd respect my game enough to know that intentional lurking like that isn't really a worthwhile strategy. Especially if it were to start backfiring.

Yes, absentees need pressure to get back in the game, but that comes from the mod in the form of prods. Throwing shade and votes is an ineffective method for catching the attention of someone who isn't current on the gamestate, and will therefore not actually receive the message. Pressure-voting lurkers is a garbage strategy for Town.

[Pine]

Maybe the answer to those "Who knows" questions is "Pine." He professed to have some experience with you, hopefully he can weigh in.

It's been a while for both of us.

[implosion]

Because being absent site-wide (non-games do not count, there's a very different investment metric) is NAI. It's usually due to life, and I would think you'd respect my game enough to know that intentional lurking like that isn't really a worthwhile strategy. Especially if it were to start backfiring.

Not what i mean. It's not about lurking being a worthwhile strategy. It's about it being impossible to fully sort a game where it's possible that the entire scumteam isn't playing.

[implosion]

Idk maybe I just have some leftover annoyance. You're here now so shrug.

I'm not really convinced though.

[Pine]

I get that. I understand the ire at having absent players - but I don't think the response was appropriate.

[Pine]

I get that. I understand the ire at having absent players - but I don't think the response was

appropriate

.

From a tactical perspective, I mean. Not suggesting there was anything untoward. Stupid English language.

[Pine]

Implosion, jam with me a bit.

What are your thoughts on Pops?

[implosion]

I can probably find some examples of things he's done that i just don't think scum is especially likely to do

[implosion]

The constant sniping at me followed by 270 is not like, a good scum tactic. All it's really likely to do is draw my ire. And then 347 in its entirety just feels like genuine read development, both the part about me and the part about you and joining the xyzzy wagon. His constant interjections with semi-game related things but also having content feels like a pattern that's tonaly consistent with town who is invested in the game but also not taking it too seriously.

[Pine]

I can respect that. Honestly, my case against him is pretty circumstantial. There's nothing really damning. Everything he's doing, I've seen Town do. However, the preponderance of "why would Town do this?" is just so strong, and this isn't an "innocent until proven guilty" situation.

[implosion]

The way he's talked about prodding you is also something that he doesn't really have much reason to go out of his way to do as scum when he's not under pressure. I think he had a genuine investment in un-clogging the gamestate, and the clogged gamestate was definitely beneficial for scum yesterday, reasons notwithstanding.

[Something_Smart]

His constant interjections with semi-game related things but also having content feels like a pattern that's tonaly consistent with town who is invested in the game but also not taking it too seriously.

I agree with this, actually, and you put it better than I could.

That said, it's one of the things that I know some people are able to fake perfectly as scum, and that's why I've been asking around to see if anyone has better meta experience with him.

[Pine]

Hmmm.

Okay, you make some reasonable points. However, I just looked over my notes, and the PoE strongly points to him too.

Town (no particular order)

hitogoroshi
Haschel Cedricson
implosion
Something_Smart
Cephrir

Null

xyzzy
Alisae
cyanjet

Scum

Lady Lambdadelta
popsofctown

xyzzy and Ali are dead, and cyanjet continues to have no content.

Let's table Pops, I don't see one of us convincing the other.

Thoughts on LLD? This looks like her scumgame, though she's playing it close to the vest.

PE: Hey, S_S, get in on the jam session.

[implosion]

I played with him in like 2011 :p

i actually kind of remember him being obvtown (w/ both of us being town) in that game. Not really relevant 8ish years later though.

[Something_Smart]

What's LLD's scumgame look like? I've never seen it.

[implosion]

I liked her rant early. She hasn't done much since then. She could be scum.

She is on my short list of people I need to sort directly more, along with hito.

[Pine]

What's LLD's scumgame look like? I've never seen it.

A notch above active lurking, sniping, hitting targets of opportunity, flexible reads. Tends not to take hard stands.

Could be outdated or blinkered by perspective, I think I've only played a couple of games with her in the last few years.