Undertale Semi-Open 1.1 Dead PT

[popsofctown]

#822, which is only a white lie, so is arguably not a lie.
I remember 7 year old pops hearing a story in first grade about a bunny who stole lettuce from the garden but also additionally stole carrots from the garden and didn't volunteer the incriminating information in taking to her parents and so told a white lie.
I was very distraught that selectively not volunteering information could be considered a lie.

There's obviously a huge loss in value if Rakan and Ginngie are both town and you get spared as PR since you could confirm yourself town by other means, and the total amount of conftown would go higher if you got someone like Chemist1422 spared. I'm assuming that was an even bigger motivation than the motivations you revealed

[mastina]

Did you actually use that chart to read mastina?
The point of the chart seemed to be to always townread mastina.
Seems like a broke clock is correct twice a day thing.

The flowchart is an accurate judge for my play in any given game. It outlines my fundamental core playstyle differences as town versus as scum. scumastina has traits which she cannot mask; scumastina has traits which, while they CAN be from me as town, are signatures of her scumgame; scumastina has traits which she cannot fundamentally manage to fake from town mastina's playbook; town mastina has traits which, while they CAN be from scumastina, are signatures of her towngame.

The flowchart lays them all out.

In any given game, town-mastina will not show 100% of her town indicators on the flowchart; in any given game, scumastina will not show 100% of her scum indicators on the flowchart; in any given game, town-mastina may show some of her scum indicators; in any given game, scumastina will probably show some of her town indicators which she can easily fake.

But BY AND LARGE. Taking in the flowchart as a whole.

It remains true to every game I've played for years. Following the flowchart would give an accurate and correct read on me. Yet to this date. It has only once been followed to actual success, when scumastina was caught red handed by someone who actually read it and was like, "hey mastina...your play this game looks an awful lot like what the flowchart says is your scumplay"--because sure enough, I was scum that game. (Still won it, but it took...a rather considerable amount of work, including nightkilling said person.)

The flowchart has never produced an incorrect townread on me, where people using the flowchart townread scumastina.
The flowchart has never produced an incorrect scumread on me, where people using the flowchart scumread me when I was town.
The flowchart has been a reliable tool for catching scumastina, and a reliable tool for pegging me as town, for years.

And I am very public and vocal about it. Telling people, "just use the flowchart", every game. Because it works.
And yet.
Almost nobody does.
The few who do find great success.
But most discard it on the basis of lolselfmeta.

Their discarding of it is their own loss tho because I mean...the flowchart works, it gives you my alignment, so if you're not using it because of your bias against lolselfmeta...your loss, mate, you're throwing a game you could've won by just following it.

[mastina]

#822, which is only a white lie, so is arguably not a lie.
I remember 7 year old pops hearing a story in first grade about a bunny who stole lettuce from the garden but also additionally stole carrots from the garden and didn't volunteer the incriminating information in taking to her parents and so told a white lie.
I was very distraught that selectively not volunteering information could be considered a lie.

There's obviously a huge loss in value if Rakan and Ginngie are both town and you get spared as PR since you could confirm yourself town by other means, and the total amount of conftown would go higher if you got someone like Chemist1422 spared. I'm assuming that was an even bigger motivation than the motivations you revealed

I mean.
I basically was giving away every step of the way that I was the cop.

[Ginngie]

Did you actually use that chart to read mastina?
The point of the chart seemed to be to always townread mastina.
Seems like a broke clock is correct twice a day thing.

i mean it’s a pretty fair chart and can say after many games and hydra, it’s not exaggerated or biased.

Its a tool, not a solution would be a great way to look at it

[chennisden]

I mean... you were obvious town, sooo

[chennisden]

Idk if you really need a flowchart to tell you that this game

[Ginngie]

#822, which is only a white lie, so is arguably not a lie.
I remember 7 year old pops hearing a story in first grade about a bunny who stole lettuce from the garden but also additionally stole carrots from the garden and didn't volunteer the incriminating information in taking to her parents and so told a white lie.
I was very distraught that selectively not volunteering information could be considered a lie.

There's obviously a huge loss in value if Rakan and Ginngie are both town and you get spared as PR since you could confirm yourself town by other means, and the total amount of conftown would go higher if you got someone like Chemist1422 spared. I'm assuming that was an even bigger motivation than the motivations you revealed

Just read 101

Amazed you had to kill someone who scumread you

[Ginngie]

I mean... you were obvious town, sooo

Hindsight is so accurate

[chennisden]

Yeah hindsight is hindsight

[chennisden]

Wow... so like I was right on every slot minus Nymph and I wasn't actively scumreading Xayah but I certainly wasn't townreading her

I love how I only push my bad reads

Sigh

[Ginngie]

To be fair your ISO had a fair bit of elements spotlighting and grilled Xayah defending Elements at some point so you did good.

[chennisden]

Yeah i dont think we lose unless elements is somehow town... and I really doubt it.

[Ginngie]

It’s a slam dunk case if you can read

[Ginngie]

5 bucks chemist votes Oversoul because MS loves to throw

However, this doesn’t go away until the fat lady sings, she just humming rn

[popsofctown]

I'm rooting for scum but I'm a little pessimistic/concerned for Xayah

[popsofctown]

Something_Smart now has access to this PT as a spectator
Because I'm super impatient and want to here more hate/love for my neutral route idea.
And I don't think I can quite shop changes publically during ongoing Undertale Semi-Opens

[Something_Smart]

Hello yes I exist

Your idea is cool and definitely has potential, I will have to thonk about it a bit more. I don't really see how it benefits scum to get scum spared, though, and it also may have timing issues where two spared players will both hold out to see who the other shoots so they can shoot back if shot. Not sure what you intended the timing to be on that.

[popsofctown]

Yes I am not positive how I want the 2 spared players game to work. I thought about different things like them each choosing secretly or picking in order of spared PT seniority. I like having the shots be guaranteed to be different. Currently the 2 spared players route has the lowest EV of all neutral routes (a bug/feature of the original setup as well), so that made me more willing to put off figuring out what to do on that. It's possible a completely different outcome just for exactly two spares is the best thing to do.

Do you mean you don't think it benefits scum to get scum spared in the new neutral route, or in the old one? The benefit to sparing scum is admittedly somewhat subtle in Double Barrel. Scum just controls 2, 1, or <democratic influence on 2> nightkills. But also, mafia cannot be targeted by the nightkills, so even if there's a one out of three scum who doesn't successfully influence the NK decision that scum has the benefit of surviving at least to day 5, where they can push for a mislynch on another spared PT player, whereas if no scum are spared it's possible for scum to lose before a single spared PT post can be quoted and used to push a mislynch.

I think Double Barrel rewards sparing scum more than original Undertale Semi-Open but would quickly say that what I have put down in Undertale Smalltown more dramatically and excitingly rewards the scum for sparing scum compared to either setup. There might be something even better than Double Barrel that doesn't have the complexity cost of Undertale Smalltown, but I haven't thought of it yet.

[popsofctown]

Every game I've played and where I've been set up for a mislynch it has been hard backed by the scum team because of a night kill them made specifically to incriminate me.

Whoa there, now, I waxed you under a day 1 mislynch without nightkilling anybody first, just a month or two ago, I've only played one good scumgame all year but damn if I want anyone to forget it.

[Ginngie]

Honestly the thing that’s giving me the most pause is that Over seems to know exactly what to say

lol mastina gonna do a rant about paranoia in endgames

[popsofctown]

Why would anyone ever accuse Oversoul of having a plan?

[popsofctown]

I wish it was mastina in LyLo in the sense that I think she would lean heavily one direction but take a long time making sure and then I could write the game outcome flavor in advance.
I have no idea whether Chemist1422 is gonna throw or not.

[popsofctown]

Ok how about this:

Dating Game:
If exactly two players were spared, the game enters Dating Game. The players in the spared PT try to date. If either player is scum, the date is a failure. The spared players are returned to the game, then the mafia performs strong kills until there is one more town player than mafia. The mafia grants either the (previously) spared players or the (previously) unspared players one day phase of lynch proof.

If both players are town, the date is a success! The spared PT players become lovers and one shot bodyguards. A mafia goon becomes lovers with the player of his choice, choosing mafia if able. The remaining two players also become lovers. There is no night four. The town fights a lover pair, and then the lover relationships end.

In both cases, the town win condition becomes "kill all the mafia", and the mafia must prevent that.

[mastina]

I wish it was mastina in LyLo in the sense that I think she would lean heavily one direction but take a long time making sure and then I could write the game outcome flavor in advance.
I have no idea whether Chemist1422 is gonna throw or not.

Oh heavens no. I might've thrown out a troll vote, using vote tags, on Oversoul as a joke, but within a day or two, I'd have cast the real hurt vote on Elements. I've never seen someone be more obviously scum than Elements is here in this lylo.

[popsofctown]

I think "a day or two" is a lot longer than the time that's going to elapse between Chemist1422 deciding which slot is scummier and hammering