[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Lord Gurgi]

That too.

[Ether]

Chosen

(11 players)
2 mafia

vs.

9 vanilla townies (initially)
Day Start

Mafia selects a townie pregame to be the unnightkillable, unendgameable Chosen One. It isn't alerted to its identity, and has to be lynched before the end of the game for the mafia to win. (Town wins as soon as the chosen one is the only town player still alive--that is, even in a 1:2 endgame where it's outnumbered by the mafia. However, the mafia still has a chance at 2:2.)

A mafia/lyncher hybrid, basically.

[Norinel]

I'm not sure which of these two setups is best deserving of the name:

Trendy and Subversive C9- A

2 Mafia
1 Cop or Deputy
1 Doc or Nurse
3 Townies

Trendy and Subversive C9- B

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Cop or Nurse
1 Doc or Deputy
3 Townies

Either way town's a little more powerful than regular C9, which is probably a good thing.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm not sure which of these two setups is best deserving of the name:

Trendy and Subversive C9- A

2 Mafia
1 Cop or Deputy
1 Doc or Nurse
3 Townies

Trendy and Subversive C9- B

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Cop or Nurse
1 Doc or Deputy
3 Townies

Either way town's a little more powerful than regular C9, which is probably a good thing.

Both could be considered trendy, but the latter is more subversive. In setup A, a deputy or nurse knows that his role is worthless, except as something that he can claim (and that will be risky for the scum to counterclaim). With setup B, a deputy or nurse has a 50-50 chance of actually being useful.

I like setup B better.

[Adel]

Trendy and Subversive C9- B is awesome.

nominate

with head of the queue preference.

[Mr. Flay]

I definitely prefer setup B.

[xyzzy]

Trendy and Subversive C9 B is fantastic.

I recall Kelly Chen had an interesting pair of setups a while back called Crush - one of those should be run:

I whipped up a sim that does one scum group and has settings like this: Lyncher y/n, Vengeful-style godfather y/n, town has to lynch lyncher even if scum are dead y/n, town wins a final two of lyncher and target y/n, and scum NKs y/n.

I'm a little torn between two setups; one is a third of a day longer (on average) but tilts the game towards the lyncher at town's expense. I'll suggest both:

Crush A

1 mafia godfather (vengeful-style)
1 mafia goon
1 lyncher (who is informed of his target)
4 townies (one of whom is unknowingly the lyncher's target)
day start. mafia can kill at night.

If the target is lynched, the game is over and the lyncher wins.
If the godfather is lynched, the goon dies with him.
If both mafia are dead following a lynch, the town wins. If the lyncher and target are both still alive, then the lyncher loses. (It follows from this that a lyncher-target final 2 is not a draw in this game.)
If the target is nightkilled, the lyncher (if still alive) turns into a townie.
The target only shows up as "townie" when nightkilled, not "target."

Stats assuming random moves:
Number of days: 1.925 average
Town wins: 35.6%
Mafia wins: 43.3%
Lyncher wins: 21.1% (plus 5.1% wins as a townie)

Crush B

Same as Crush A, except the elimination of the mafia isn't game over. If the lyncher and target are both still alive, the town must try to lynch the lyncher. However, the situation of a final 2 with the lyncher and the target is still a town win, not a draw.

Stats assuming random moves:
Number of days: 2.267 average
Town wins: 27.0%
Mafia wins: 43.3%
Lyncher wins: 29.7% (plus 5.1% wins as a townie)

If the lyncher-target final 2 scenario is considered a draw, this lowers town's win odds to 23.0%. It also means a lyncher-target-mafia final 3 scenario doesn't permit a town victory.


Ok, commentary: I call it "Crush" because the info the town can gain stems largely from two players' uncompromisable stances towards another player. The goon

cannot

let the godfather get lynched. The lyncher

must

get the target lynched (or nightkilled, if town goes on to win). They have strange crushes on each other.

Additionally, in Crush A, the lyncher doesn't want the godfather lynched while the target is still alive. Although the lyncher doesn't know who the godfather is, this motivation of the lyncher might help to make him more detectable.

Thoughts?

[somestrangeflea]

Crush (Not sure if A or B) ran as Open 33. It wasn't a good game, but this was mainly due to a complete fail of a mod. The setup was quite interesting and I'd like to see it run again.

Edit: You know this, you played in it for crying out glavin!

[iamausername]

Trendy and Subversive C9- B is awesome.

nominate

with head of the queue preference.

Second

.

[xyzzy]

Crush (Not sure if A or B) ran as Open 33. It wasn't a good game, but this was mainly due to a complete fail of a mod. The setup was quite interesting and I'd like to see it run again.

Edit: You know this, you played in it for crying out glavin!

Huh. Guess I suppressed the memory because the mod was such a giant heap of fail.

That and the fact that it was a year ago.

[shaft.ed]

Trendy and Subversive C9- B is awesome.

nominate

with head of the queue preference.

I think I'd rather see:
2 X 1 in 4 chance of Cop, Deputy, Doc, Nurse

[Twomz]

Follow the Leader: Over Defensive

Mafia
1 Godfather: Sends in mafia kill (who kills whom, they cannot preform another night action). Cannot be targeted by night choices.
1 Mafia Doctor: Can protect ANY mafia member from a NK.
1 Mafia Investigator: Can track or watch a player.
1 Mafia Rolecop: Can get a player's role information (no sanity information).

Town
1 Tracker
1 Watcher
1 Private Eye (can track or watch)
1 Meddling Kid (backup watcher/tracker (whichever role dies first (includes mafia tracker and private eye))).
1 Gravedigger (seen targeting dead player every night)
1 Rubber (chooses a player (can choose self) to redirect all night actions except mafia and sk kills to another player)
3 doctors (1 sane, 1 placebo, 1 cpr)
2 townies

Neutral
1 Designer Person #4: Serial Killer. 1 kill a night. Cannot be tracked, watched and NK immune. Can easily take 2 other people on at the same time (wins at a 3 person endgame). (CPR doc counts towards the attempts

[Oman]

1 Gravedigger (seen targeting dead player every night)

Wow, nice role!

[Twomz]

1 Gravedigger (seen targeting dead player every night)

Wow, nice role!

I actually came up with that role before my vacation from the site (about 2 years ago). Basically a miller for trackers/watchers.

And after thinking... this would probably be better as a closed game, because knowing doctors have a chance of failing/killing or that the SK endgames at 3 people are things that probably shouldn't be included...

We need a "Not that bad role ideas" thread, with a list/link to wikis in the 1rst/2nd post.

[Trojan Horse]

Two years ago? Was this post your inspiration, Twomz?

[Oman]

Busted...

[Twomz]

Two years ago? Was this post your inspiration, Twomz?

YES!!! That's probably where I got the idea for the original version of the above setup.

In fact, when I read on I find out that it is the place. For some reason, when I searched for it it didn't show, maybe I had the time set wrong >.<

[Mirth]

I request Texas Justice Mafia be taken out of open rotation. Fonz broke it.

[Twomz]

Erm, GJ fonz?

3 scum 8 1 shot vigs?

[Mr. Flay]

I request

that version of

Texas Justice Mafia be taken out of open rotation.

Fixed for you.

Seriously, who passed

8

9 one-shot vigs and one scum-kill-a-night as a good setup?!?

[Tomato]

Actually, that setup has

9

OSV's. It was suggested in the game thread to change it to 8 (which would make the setup have an odd number of players, and Fonz's system would no longer work).

[The Fonz]

I request

that version of

Texas Justice Mafia be taken out of open rotation.

Fixed for you.

Seriously, who passed 8 one-shot vigs and one scum-kill a night as a good setup?!?

The large version is actually fine. The bigger the game, the more chance two scum end up next to one another.

[Mr. Flay]

Actually, that setup has

9

OSV's. It was suggested in the game thread to change it to 8 (which would make the setup have an odd number of players, and Fonz's system would no longer work).

Thanks for the correction; my real point was that it's not TJ that's inherently broken, just that formulation.

[shaft.ed]

You need to make a bullet proof GF.

[somestrangeflea]

Would it still be broken if we replaced the Mafia's group-kill with individual one-shots?