Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[MathBlade]

It’s called a null vote. It’s a vote that gives no information to anyone since shos at that point had no clout to push anyone. Any push he did would reek of scum teammates coaching.

[skitter30]

@implo

can you fix the spoiler tags plz? something weird happened

[MathBlade]

Mods can’t edit posts especially in team mafia Skitter.
(I was a team mafia mod last year)

[MathBlade]

Or the year before #old dude problems

[Xtoxm]

And yes quite frankly unless you believe RCE shot and Xtom neighborized I am still conf town based on N1

And if you do believe the former then use that as a starting spot and ask why Xtom neighborized by scum?

Assume I am scum then what do you learn about N1?

i have no idea what why scum may have chosen to neighborize xtoxm
but i'm assuming they didn't no-neighborize

so they either nk'd you and neighborized rce
or they nk'd rce and neighborized xtoxm

those are kinda the only two possibilities
or i guess technically rc could have been neighborized but i imagine he would have claimed that if that had been a thing

I'm sorry what?
This post lacks any sense of forethought.
Why are you discounting option 3: math nk, xtox NB'd
Suggesting the hood is fake and instead rc offers to be bopd on Saud without commenting that he knows Saudis role...are you listening to yourself?

[skitter30]

It’s called a null vote. It’s a vote that gives no information to anyone since shos at that point had no clout to push anyone. Any push he did would reek of scum teammates coaching.

but it would have been significantly better for him if he had just like ... voted his cw or something

his slots early game is bad, and wagonomics around him like early day2 point to scum

but his play (specifically tone) today just makes me think town?

i'm kinda conflicted and i think i need to do some more digging in plum's early game and at saudade's iso

but i need to bounce now, i have an appointment shortly

[skitter30]

Mods can’t edit posts especially in team mafia Skitter.
(I was a team mafia mod last year)

ah, in like the other queues mods can usually, didn't see why it would be different here

[MathBlade]

And yes quite frankly unless you believe RCE shot and Xtom neighborized I am still conf town based on N1

And if you do believe the former then use that as a starting spot and ask why Xtom neighborized by scum?

Assume I am scum then what do you learn about N1?

i have no idea what why scum may have chosen to neighborize xtoxm
but i'm assuming they didn't no-neighborize

so they either nk'd you and neighborized rce
or they nk'd rce and neighborized xtoxm

those are kinda the only two possibilities
or i guess technically rc could have been neighborized but i imagine he would have claimed that if that had been a thing

I'm sorry what?
This post lacks any sense of forethought.
Why are you discounting option 3: math nk, xtox NB'd
Suggesting the hood is fake and instead rc offers to be bopd on Saud without commenting that he knows Saudis role...are you listening to yourself?

She’s really not.

She’s completely tunneled I am scum and so I keep trying to point out how silly that is from different angles

I am hoping that if I help her build a case against me then she will see I can’t have any partners and then maybe that will bring her out of her tunnel.

[MathBlade]

Mods can’t edit posts especially in team mafia Skitter.
(I was a team mafia mod last year)

ah, in like the other queues mods can usually, didn't see why it would be different here

Those games aren’t scored and don’t have cross issues.

Generally edits would only happen for inaccuracies in vote counts or emergencies and ugly posts are neither

[MathBlade]

Let me know what meta of mine you want Skitter.

I shall provide any meta that I can find of myself closest to what you need to try to put me in the scummiest light possible.

I am that certain you’re tunneled here.

[MathBlade]

It’s called a null vote. It’s a vote that gives no information to anyone since shos at that point had no clout to push anyone. Any push he did would reek of scum teammates coaching.

but it would have been significantly better for him if he had just like ... voted his cw or something

his slots early game is bad, and wagonomics around him like early day2 point to scum

but his play (specifically tone) today just makes me think town?

i'm kinda conflicted and i think i need to do some more digging in plum's early game and at saudade's iso

but i need to bounce now, i have an appointment shortly

No. It wouldn’t.

Voting cw = survivalistic

And tone is almost never a good reason to townread someone alone who is experienced
You need more than that.

A good scum knows how to frame things well

[teacher]

Im still offline for a bit, but skit the problem is you can’t nest spoiler tags.m, so the spoilers in the vcs are preventing the larger spoiler.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Titus response to Skitter’s question

Looking at VC 2.6 (This is Titus’s opinion paraphrased by me)

Disclaimer, VCA is rarely done in once VC in a vacuum. It works together with other VCs.

Now we have Sausade as the third vote on you. There is no counterwagon. This doesn't appear to be a hard bus. So I'm relatively confident you're town.

I don't see Ico Xtoxm as scum on this VC either. Two scum neighboring each other in a VC seems highly problematic unless scum were deathly afraid of you being spot on. That definitely doesn't apply for Ico and likely not xtoxm. This is likely scum buttering up Math after riling him up.

Why don't shos and Flopz get on you? Because shos nor Flopz was in any danger. RC and Math were bickering. RC wanted shos. Scum wanted to use conftown Math to discredit RC and make RC feel alone.

Their objective was RC v Math, lynch RC. They'd settle for you but they wanted RC discredited. The RCE flip creates tunnel Math.

The RC NK was clear too. Bella was killed because she was obvious town AND she wouldn't change the gamestate. Bella could come back and do something unexpected. Ico is never expected to push Flopz. Thus Bella > Ico for an NK.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: the alluringly subtle fragrance of an ouroboros

Vote Count 2.6

skitter30

(4): MathBlade, Iconeum, Saudade, Xtoxm

shos

(2): skitter30, RadiantCowbells

Aristophanes

(2): Flopz, teacher

RadiantCowbells

(1): RCEnigma

MathBlade

(1): Aristophanes

Not voting (2): shos, Bellaphant

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to 4 PM PST on January 31st, in (expired on 2020-01-31 20:00:00).

@math:

can you get titus to explain this vc again?
if it's shos+flopz+saudade scared of me trying to lynch shos why weren't flopz + shos on me here, why were they wool-gathering on ari and not voting

also i don't udnerstand how the nka points to shos and flopz in particular

The question for context

[skitter30]

I am hoping that if I help her build a case against me then she will see I can’t have any partners and then maybe that will bring her out of her tunnel.

summarize for me why you can't have any partners

[MathBlade]

Gonna do this in smaller chunks
Let’s for sake of simplicity look at the not traitor worlds
Me+Skitter >> Just gonna skip right over this one
Me+Xtom >> Again this one requires either me to shoot myself or intentionally neighborize myself or neighborize RCE and then suggest Xtom lie about it. Considering I am usually very smart with powers and assignments here the only such case for me + Xtom requires that nearly every wagon of the game is one in which I do not control as Xtom is a relative low poster. A similar game where this was the case (Shadowrun) in which kills were setup to explicitly lead in certain ways and I leave small clues and let others drink “bad” ideas rather than suggesting my own. (Extra Communication) is also another sample in which I begged to be “checked” because I didn’t have a PT with my partner Chip. I tend to be honest whatever my alignment is and me+Xtom does not work.

Now give me a moment for the rest

[MathBlade]

Me + Ico — This would have to be a preplanned gambit once a no kill of RCE happened. Possible but unlikely as you’d then have to answer why neighborize Xtom instead of anyone who townread me/Ico heavily d1? This question becomes the focus of the lack of partner. I have never played with Xtom. You’d have to pair me with someone who knew Xtom’s meta.

[MathBlade]

Now with me+Ico and me + Xtom eliminated then in me scum worlds Ico+Xtom are town and we would be looking for someone with knowledge of Xtom and that he hates playing with RC.

[MathBlade]

YOU JUST SAID YOUR TEAM TOLD YOU PREGAME THAT XTOXM WOULD HARD LURK WITH ME IN THE GAME

This is the type of meta that RC and RCE have that my supposed partner would have to have in order for me to have a reason to deviate from my usual very successful build town block with scum strategy which neighborizer should do as scum.

[skitter30]

@teacher @ico am i really just tunneled here?

[MathBlade]

This eliminates tris Thilbert Plum and their replacements as iirc those were all day two.

This leaves Ari or teacher as possible scumbuddies left for me

[MathBlade]

You’d have to have a hard time explaining D1 and D2 with me+Ari
Me+teacher is the last one. Do you want me to explain why that’s bad Skitter? Or is this enough?

[skitter30]

can u explain the tris/flopz/shos bit again, i didn't follow that part

i don't need you/teacher

[MathBlade]

can u explain the tris/flopz/shos bit again, i didn't follow that part

i don't need you/teacher

It’s because of how I operate as scum with hoods. You’ve seen that experience. I would as scum have Saud hood RC or Ico or you. Scum win on information control. For me to deviate to a lurker such as xtomx would require some benefit to where I thought some control would be possible. I have no experience iirc with xtomx before this game started. Therefore said partner would have to have knowledge of xtomx, experience with them, and knowing they would be the proper buddy.

This also has to be from the d1 list tris/Plum/flopz (Flopz was d1 not D2 my bad).

Considering I have little to no experience with tris and Plum. Flopz I think I have had 2 games with maybe? They’d have to have enough games with xtomx and RC to make the suggestion to deviate there.

[Iconeum]

To anyone scumreading Ari:

how do you feel about his relation to the saud lynch?

@shos in particular, you think Ari is scum. Like, your only main scumread right now?
He was focused on lynching scum, and he kept calling you out for going against what is now certain a scum wagon. Yet you scumread him because PoE?

Well, I wouldn't say he is my main scumread

, but he is definitely the slot I think is best to lynch right now. I do have to look into saudade interactions, when I get the time to dig in. Hopefully on Thursday; I hoped today but gf troubles lol.
The fact he was against saudade doesn't give him too much towncred (unless he lead that lynch and/or initiated it?) because I don't really think there was any counterwagon viable against it. I was against that lynch and if memory serves right only the policy lynch of xtomx was an actual option.

Stop. Not. Giving.Your.Actual.Reads

I've repeatedly asked you to start giving us your reads. You say ari!scum. When I start pushing that, Ari isn't your 'main' scumread? Then who is?

Math xtomx lying because RCE was fail-hooded N1 is one possibility. But I don't think he is lying; I just think he is scum. Don't see what you're trying to even say.

What reason does scum!xtoxm have according to you to claim being NB'd?

my current opinion on shos is that he could possible be town who needs to start getting his shit together

that's kinda where i'm at
his content is bad af but his tone is kinda townie

Yeah basicly this. Really seeing scummy content but his tone is really town pinging me. Gut says shos is the designated mislynch.
I don't think math is scum. I think he's the scum attack dog and he doesn't know it.

Spoiler: Titus response to Skitter’s question

Looking at VC 2.6 (This is Titus’s opinion paraphrased by me)

Disclaimer, VCA is rarely done in once VC in a vacuum. It works together with other VCs.

Now we have Sausade as the third vote on you. There is no counterwagon. This doesn't appear to be a hard bus. So I'm relatively confident you're town.

I don't see Ico Xtoxm as scum on this VC either. Two scum neighboring each other in a VC seems highly problematic unless scum were deathly afraid of you being spot on. That definitely doesn't apply for Ico and likely not xtoxm. This is likely scum buttering up Math after riling him up.

Why don't shos and Flopz get on you? Because shos nor Flopz was in any danger. RC and Math were bickering. RC wanted shos. Scum wanted to use conftown Math to discredit RC and make RC feel alone.

Their objective was RC v Math, lynch RC. They'd settle for you but they wanted RC discredited. The RCE flip creates tunnel Math.

The RC NK was clear too. Bella was killed because she was obvious town AND she wouldn't change the gamestate. Bella could come back and do something unexpected. Ico is never expected to push Flopz. Thus Bella > Ico for an NK.

I really do like this. I'm fairly confident skitter is town. Why was I killed over Bella? Partly because Bella had like a 50/50 chance of lying about being gated and partly because my reads suck/change with the wind? Because I was townreading scum is also a good guess, right?

@teacher @ico am i really just tunneled here?

Well, I have the opposite of a tunnel lol. In a world where my gut is right, and both shos and math (do you TvT read those 2?) are town, who is scum?

Ari/flopz/xtoxm solves the game then, right?

I'm close to just going with town!shos.

@Math, can you see a town!shos in this game?