Mini Normal 2146: Cute Pets Game Over, Town wins

[Emperor flippyNips]

Why do you find it scummy and not just bad town play?

A lot of people say my playstyle is bad town play because it appears erratic and nonsensical to them, so that's why I generally try not to classify anything as bad town play.
I push anything that I think is not pushing a town wincondition forward.

OMG! Me tooo! i look scummy af when im town. and touching on the people not going after their prefered lynch. i have no clue who i want to die, im trying to get townies first then i'll figure out who i want to kill.

i originally voted hoop for omgus lulz, but left it there cos it felt right & no one else has really given me bad vibes

[gobbledygook]

Right but just failing to push a town wincon forward does not make for scum play. So again, why do you specifically find that action scummy and find that it's AI instead of NAI?

I mean not pushing a town win con in my mind is pushing a scum win con.
As for Una specifically, I think parking a vote is easy to make it look like you’re scumhunting when you’re not. It’s easy for scum to blend in.

[CooLDoG]

lot going on here that hungry dog can't process.

[Hiraki]

pretty sure my lynchpool today is in hoopla, flippynips, and renaissance. will change based on the VC

why?

why what?

Renaissance, Hoopla, CoolDog, Hiraki - what do you think of the fact that Una did:
...nothing to get notscience killed
...not vote anyone else on his shortlist after unvoting notscience

not getting what you're putting down here, i have una as a townie tbh

[PranaDevil]

who is adamantly against an espe lynch?

Mate... day one the only lynch I'm adamantly against is my own.

do you mean two pairs of millers?

Why would there be "pairs" of millers? Four millers would be fucking awful.

Millers are town that show up as scum in a cop result...

I was in the game with Una, it was fucking garbage. I understand Una not immediately being willing to consider what is "normal" in a normal... my first game back and I get stuck with that fucking clusterfuck... almost made me turn around from playing entirely.

Prana, I don't get your SvS theory. If you have so many qualms with Hoopla's analysis, and think she might be bussing Flippo, then why not vote Hoopla instead?

Oh I was planning to... don't you think I wasn't. But when Flippy immediately started posting so much, while saying so little (I see nothing has changed incidentally), I couldn't just sit there and not vote Flippy... ever.

As for why I think they are s/s, partly my feeling that both are scum (let's be honest, this early in the game, there's less to go on regarding s/s interactions), but I do feel like Hoopla mentioned the lynching of the lurker slots, and then "pushed" Flippy who subsequently "fixes" their post counts, by spreading one post so thin that it became practically an entire page by itself...

@Prana

Same, but replace Gypyx with FlippyNips.

I was originally going to say I didn't feel the Turkey wagon... but recent postings do make me fancy a roast dinner. I like my vote on Flippy (I hope I shouldn't need to explain that read), but I'm happy to go with a Turkey or Hoopla wagon right about now.

[Hoopla]

Now... I'm not saying scum won't be in there, scum love to lurk, and hey, I've posted the least... I also don't split my replies up into a response to every single thing I respond to, so focusing just on posts themselves... well that can fuck right off at the best of times. Number of posts isn't that important. Plus I am not great early game. Never have been. I do better after a re-read and a lynch of two, where I can do some analysis. If you expect me to be coming out of the gates day one as some amazing super posting person.... you'll be disappointed. My early reads are generally bad (I'm actually finding CooLDoG to be more town, the more I read).

Anyway... Hoopla advocates for the above to be where we should focus. I'll note that Flippy has 22 posts, renaissance has 24... is that 2 post difference such a huge thing? Why is renaissance somehow ignored there?

Then Hoopla votes for Flippy... the person who's posted the most of all those she ringed... fair enough she was on me, and that was going nowhere... but why stop voting me after you post about wanting to push lurkers? If "number of posts made" is your most important factor... you stay on me and push for more pressure on me, not less... especially when I hadn't posted for a while. So pushing lurkers... ignoring renaissance, voting flippy instead of staying on me, or something equally light on posting... none of it adds up.

my post highlighting the lurking analysis was mostly framework to help my critics see how i view the game.

is there a difference between a player with 22 posts instead of 24? no, of course not. my big red circle was rather arbitrary. i definitely factor in the density of content one offers in their posts. your 10 posts have more content in them than the totality of Flippy's, which is why he's probably higher in my lynch list than you, and one of the reasons why i am promoting espeonage's wagon now.

[Hoopla]

damn so harsh. this game just started hop off my back

i'm still figuring out the correct motivational prompts to address the underperformers in the game. it appears you respond well to passive-aggressive sass! i will keep this in mind.

a question to help further aid your integration into being a useful town member:

what do you think about prana's scathing observation about your play in 504? are the critics right? is your sudden rapid posting a tactical response to avoid my list of lurkers?

[Hoopla]

after sleeping on it, i've decided to promote agar to the town bloc. it's been a long time coming, and i know he's been waiting patiently. consider this post his formal invitation.

also, this is a private letter for agar's eyes only. PLEASE NOBODY ELSE READ:

Spoiler: for agar

dearest agar,

this is hoopla. i understand you have some mixed feelings about some of my fellow town bloc members. that's okay! i encourage diversity of opinion amongst the town bloc, and am always looking for "

new ways of seeing things

", so to speak. but... i really can't get on board with this turkey vote you are promoting. can i instead request your help in voting for espeonage?

please respond:

[ ] yes
[ ] no
[ ] maybe later

[AGar]

[x] maybe later

[Hoopla]

i respect your decision.

[Hoopla]

I guess going off of Hoopla's system I would pref to lynch either renaissance. It must be noted that if you believe in hoopla's system you can't exonerate her for it, because it is her very system. SHe will perposfully play to look town under it as scum and town.....

I am thinking of shipping over to espe.

it appears you've come to the conclusion that my play is neutral and not inherently scummy like you were claiming a few pages back?

in the interest of breaking the fourth wall and connecting heart-to-heart with my readers, i must admit, this is true. i am capable of playing scum or town this way. historically, i have been fiercely devoted to mimicking my town meta as scum: that town meta being passionate attempts to optimise d1 play to boost town EV. it has always been annoying to have to copy that as scum, and not lurk my way to victory, but such is life.

i recommend readers to judge me on the outcomes of my actions. i'll be easier to read once we have some claims/flips. or in this specific game, wait for me to absorb the nightkill.

~~

mister cooldog

i see you are greasing the wheel, readying yourself for an espeonage vote. are you waiting for a sign? for someone to hold your hand and tell you it's okay?

well, consider this post that sign. i can't promise safe passage on future days from the eyes of the town bloc, but your allegiance will be looked upon favourably.

[Hoopla]

@renaissance

are you an alt? be honest...

[Emperor flippyNips]

damn so harsh. this game just started hop off my back

i'm still figuring out the correct motivational prompts to address the underperformers in the game. it appears you respond well to passive-aggressive sass! i will keep this in mind.

a question to help further aid your integration into being a useful town member:

what do you think about prana's scathing observation about your play in 504? are the critics right? is your sudden rapid posting a tactical response to avoid my list of lurkers?

I started posting cos of the prod not cos of what you said, & I planned on playing this game despite what gobble said about my play style. That’s normally how I end up in large/large themed games. the way I post is the way I post I have plenty of games where my posting style is the exact same here not that I care to bring in meta.
Also I don’t think that question helps me be a productive town member or help you sort me so what’s the point of it, to disregard me? Make it easier to push my lynch thru? How bout asking some actually questions that help you sort me? Or just keep me pinged in your scum list without actually trying to get a read on me

[Emperor flippyNips]

I’m doing what I can and asking questions that’ll help me sort people, idk why people are trying to act like I’m doing nothing, the game hardly started

[Emperor flippyNips]

pretty sure my lynchpool today is in hoopla, flippynips, and renaissance. will change based on the VC

why?

Why are these people in your Lynch pool?

[UnaBombaH]

I already explained that Espeonage is the ammo I need to get you lynched. I think you distanced from Espeonage. I have been perfectly clear why I am not voting you. Now I am trying to find your other buddy. I am stuck between notscience and Una as the last one.

This quote has pretty much all the reasons why I'm not taking this turkey seriously as of now.
Not only are you saying here that you are already looking for teammates for the scum you have already "found"(??), but you also admit to having not voted for someone because you don't think they are likely to get lynched as of now, even if you think they are scum (AGar?)
So preflip associations and scumreading others for actions you take yourself?

Una on the other hand has done nothing to ask anyone about notscience or to get anyone to vote notscience or really do anything in relation to notscience. That is why I called out his vote.

Well, I sort of DID get sidetracked by Gypyx, and I think I made it rather clear?
AND I also realized that myself, hence I also made it clear I was done talking about him for now, AND unvoted notscience since nothing was happening there at this time.
My vote is likely more valuable somewhere else today, as they do not seem like a likely lynch for today, no matter what I do.
AND their posting has at least been more sound to me, than yours or renaissances, so there's that too.

Interesting that he unvotes notscience when called out on it despite notscience still being on his short list of people to lynch don't you think.

Don't flatter yourself.
You've been a goof in your last couple of posts, and you think I'd get scared from you calling me out in posts like these?
Get one of your scumreads flipped and then explain away how your masterful "solve" collapsed on the first one.

[UnaBombaH]

My CoolDog read still has conditions on it, but he has done enough now that I can town read him independent of any conditions. Thank goodness. I did not want to reveal my conditions.

Also - THIS is antitown if anything.
I get constantly called out for my vague and "mysterious" reads, but it's almost always something related with PRs or silly meta-tells I do not feel like outing.
But instead of continuosly repeating them for funsies, I state them and move on.
Dwelling on them like this, only makes them stick out more for scum, and everyone who ever has trouble trusting you/CoolDog.

[UnaBombaH]

that's right i did ask una why he's sring NS. i feel like im getting called out left & right for only memeing but i've asked plenty of questions that are just getting pushed aside as of rn by una since you've responded gobble

I guess I've missed that question then?
Sorry about that.

My initial scumread on notscience came about from their earliest interactions with/around Hoopla.
Hoopla was awkwardly(?) trying to build the first bridge, and I think notscience reacted in a suspicious manner.
My take on it was something a scum would likely do - not jumping at the thought and immediately hopping onboard the townbin, but trying to come across suspecting and hard to get.
Somehow I got the read that a scummie had to fake suspicions and paranoia towards Hoopla, because in reality they KNOW their alignment.

That feeling has somewhat passed, especially since I feel like there are better lynchoptions in the same "towngroup" from Hoopla now.
But whenever I reread those first interactions, I have a feeling notscience was putting on an act.

[UnaBombaH]

not getting what you're putting down here, i have una as a townie tbh

Because unlike gobbledygook here, you are reading the game and understand things.
I feel like it has to be a playstyle-thing, because I HAVE heard of gobbledy before.
I've heard begrudging admittals of a somewhat decent towngame..

Mate... day one the only lynch I'm adamantly against is my own.

I honestly dislike it when people seem to say "lynch whoever D1 and we get flips and the game starts", but I can also really understand this PoV.
Often it ends up being very hard to feel good about any one lynch over the rest D1, but we all know we need to make one too.
I'd still argue that the best thing anyone and everyone CAN do is just start raising discussion about anyone and everyone.
At least that way we have the most to analyze later.

[UnaBombaH]

I feel like someone asked for my reads at some point as well, and even if no one did..

I guess my only townleans so far are AGar and Hiraki.
I like their individual mindsets, and they seem to pay attention to details in these masses of nothingness we sometimes refer to as posts.

My swaying reads are currently quite a bunch, unfortunately.
On the upper side of them though, I have CoolDog and Flippynips.
I got some towny vibes from their earlier posts, but I feel both of them took some steps in their later posts that turned me a little sour towards them. I think I've already pointed those individual posts out already.

On the other hand, Prana is looking like a hedgehog again.
And I'm having trouble deciding where to place them as of now.
Espeonage and Lickety both land on the same slot as Prana.
Somewhere slightly below the null-line, but mainly because it's been harder to cipher a read out of them, than it has been from CoolDog and Flippy.

My lynchpool for today, and the scumleans I have gathered so far, shamefully include too many people as of now.
But I'd like to repeat my earlier statement - the list made by Hoopla

hoopla (president)
gobbledygook
notscience
renaissance
gypyx

I feel like I'd be willing to lynch anyone on this list D1, and truly believe there has to be at least one scum within it. Potentially more.
notscience was the first one to ping my radar, and gypyx the second. (although the discussion ended up being more mechanical to others, which is why I dropped it)
Now gobbledy and renaissance both felt, at the same time mind you, that I was the most scummy player in the game?
I could understand people protecting the townblock and their position in it later on in the game, but D1?

I think out of the 2 of them, renaissance is currently the more suspicious one, but I'm looking out for all of them.
VOTE: renaissance

[Gypyx]

For all of hoopla's wanting to run up a wagon to l1 to get a claim by the midway point, she votes for no people on it. I'ma gonna go through the posts in detail tomorrow when my head is less clear so I can get an accurate read.

Also, excellent vote gobbles.Excellent. If you do a meta analysis of all of my games I correctly call scum 100% of the time.

Didn't you say that meta is trash? Why bring it up to back up your accusation then?

[Gypyx]

you know i still think hoopla is a decent vote but im gonna move on over to here


VOTE: gyphx i have a hunch

fuck actually i take it back

UNVOTE:


i've reconsidered and i think gyph is likely town

How do you vote someone only to immediatly unvote them the next post? especially considering that you also had different scum leans at the time of that post

[UnaBombaH]

How do you vote someone only to immediatly unvote them the next post? especially considering that you also had different scum leans at the time of that post

My thoughts exactly.
Lends thought to the idea that Flippy felt like he needed a reason to unvote Hoopla, but didn't want to "just unvote".

I immediately disliked that particular vote-unvote because of it, and it made me reconsider my read on Flippy and Hoopla both.

[Gypyx]

also i've just read through Gooble's ISO, and while i'm still slightly uncomfortable about him post 498 for instance feels like a weird opinion to have, as i don't see a game where none of the townies misplay as a realistic thing, i like the thinking he shows in Post #419 or the fact that he has a conditional read on cooldog

[Gypyx]

Why do you find it scummy and not just bad town play?

A lot of people say my playstyle is bad town play because it appears erratic and nonsensical to them, so that's why I generally try not to classify anything as bad town play.
I push anything that I think is not pushing a town wincondition forward.

OMG! Me tooo! i look scummy af when im town. and touching on the people not going after their prefered lynch. i have no clue who i want to die, im trying to get townies first then i'll figure out who i want to kill.

i originally voted hoop for omgus lulz, but left it there cos it felt right & no one else has really given me bad vibes

this post pings me hard as scum, it's just Flippy justifing himself for scummy things he'll do in the future, like


"OMG! Me tooo! i look scummy af when im scum. and touching on the people not going after their prefered lynch. i have an excuse to hop on every wagon, im trying to buddy peoples first then i'll hop on to whatever wagon I want.

i originally voted hoop for omgus lulz, but left it there cos i haven't participated in the game since"

VOTE: flippyNips