Mini Normal 2146: Cute Pets Game Over, Town wins

[Klick]

I'm writing a response to you right now

[notscience]

Thanks

I’ll try to respond- today’s been slower bc it’s a silent open but I’m getting calm before the storm vibes. Latest I reply will be in the am

[bob3141]

The Una wagon looks to me to be built by all town. In Una wagon I trust

I have asthma and was having an allergic attack apparently

So why do you trust it based on the fact you think its all town? Although you claim to town read those players why do you trust their reads.

As it seems your more trying to use your claims of town reads to further push the counter wagon to you.

As i have often town manage to stack up 5 votes on another town slot.



You have pushed a scum case against una. But what do you think of NS and hoopla read on una.

[notscience]

I literally said I disagreed with these three wagons and only joined this because it has the towniest average imo

[bob3141]

And kilck

to be clear this isnt a question on if you think their read leads to town or scum lean but what you think on solidity of the reads it self.


Which bits do you agree with. And the bist athat although youagree on the conclusion you think is wrong

[CooLDoG]

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

[bob3141]

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

If una is town then this is rather scummy vote.

[Klick]

One trend from Cooldog’s gameplay I’ve noticed thus far (149) is it seems very integral on optimal townplay- which is both good and bad. On the one hand it makes his life (if scum) harder, but it allows pretty easy reads to hide behind too.

I feel like CooLDoG is on another planet when it comes to his view of optimal town play. I do feel like his perception of the game is complex enough that it's probably not fake though. His Hoopla read is easy, but some of his peripheral comments have felt genuine (see 602 and my thoughts on it earlier).

I feel like I have the same 'optimal play' criticism of AGar though. And reading further into your read-through you seem to feel the same way. Except I don't see the same depth of play from AGar that I do from CooLDoG.

I don't really understand your Hiraki townread beyond 'I agree with what he's saying a lot'. You mention 411, but I don't think I agree that that couldn't come from scum. It was approached from a removed perspective similarly to how Hoopla presented it, almost academically, and feels a bit like busy work to me. From someone who has continually said 'why does this matter?' I question why he felt the need to go in-depth at that particular moment. The motives of the post itself were to question why my slot was read as town, which for obvious reasons doesn't inspire me with confidence.

I'd be fine-ish with a Prana wagon starting up. I have problems with the amount of words he's produced versus the actual content he's provided. I do feel like this slot could sort itself given time though, and he's BoP'd himself into giving us more in later days. Bellaphant (my IRL fiancee) plays almost identically to this, so that could be making me give him the benefit of the doubt. But I think there are better options for a lynch today.

I don't agree with your Una townread. Equally, I don't see that much to respond to? This read doesn't feel concrete. I think it's possible that you're seeing 'quirky' and reading 'genuine' into it. It's worth noting that a lot of what you wind up townreading Una for is his interaction with gobble (and I thought I had a point in pointing this out, but I can no longer remember why... Oh well, I'll leave it and maybe you'll get something from it?)

It seems like those are our main points of contention? Neither of us seems to feel super strongly about Battle Mage, though we lean different ways.

[Klick]

Oh, I think it's worth mentioning that in 797, Una feels the need to make a big deal out of gobble's fit in 705 on principle... yet earlier, when flippyNips threw a similar fit in 527, he didn't bother to respond (and he was around very shortly afterwards).

[Klick]

If it wasn't for the detriment of the current wagons, I'd be happy enough to move my vote back to the renaissance-slot.
I still think Gobbledy flips red though, so once we are done with that flip, we can continue on to klick.

The one who called them a revolving door, and obv.town or whatever, has also earned some scummy-points.
Can't check it out now, but I believe that might be a teammate giving their support to a slot that just doesn't like playing scum.

'a slot that just doesn't like playing scum'? How does that work?

I can't recall what Una thinks about anything that isn't the Traitor Problem.

Then you haven't tried. I said plenty.

Then show me the receipts. Before 372, what significant opinions did you give on anyone that wasn't Gypyx?

Una's 519 goes back to giving me bad vibes. Una's scumreads line up exactly with Hoopla's townbloc, with everyone else going 'just below the null line' at worst. That's not natural town thought. He also has much more concrete reasons for suspecting all of notscience/Gypyx/gobble, but votes renaissance for elusive reasons.

Klick assumes my lynchpool is Hooplas townblock BECAUSE they are in there.
I thought I said it from the start, but I think Hoopla is town, and the group just happens to include most all of the slots I found to be suspicious at the time.
Hence - I wanted wagons in that group and wasn't going to be too picky about who.
Mainly to get some reactions - mostly because I felt like we'd be more likely to get an actual red flip.
At the time, gobbledy/renaissance/gypyx were the ones who felt reasonable, but I didn't want Gypyx wagoned because I knew the discussion would devolve back into Traitor-talk etc.
And I felt like renaissance had just recently made the worst posts out of the two remaining.

And you don't find it odd that your scumreads/lynch options correlate

exactly

with the townreads of someone you think is town?

You continually frame your desired lynch options as someone 'within Hoopla's townbloc'. You don't claim those scumreads independently; your view of the game seems to be dependent on Hoopla's.

I think Hoopla is town, and you're leeching off of her view of the game to pretend to have your own reads.

I'm getting the vibe that if Una is scum, at least one of his partners is actually in Hoopla's townbloc.

His vote has danced around enough in that group

that there's something whack going on there.

Like said, that group is poorly formed, and just happens to include most all of my scumreads.
I bolded this part from your quote because it made me chuckle.
I had literally voted in a RvS-manner with a completely random vote for funsies, before making my first serious vote on notscience.
After that wagon didn't feel like it could be the one for today, AND I had stirred the discussion around Gypyx, I felt like Gobbledy and Renaissance were the two slots worthy of my vote.
Chose renaissance -> they replaced out.
So I move my vote to Gobbledy with the hopes that we might actually get a lynch going.

So in fact three votes, and one of the switches was "forced" by a replacement.
Talk about a misrep with that quote.

To be clear, my current running theory is that you and notscience are scum together.

Remind me why you unvoted notscience?

So you've reasserted this a few times now. Why do you believe it? Hoopla herself has said she plays very similarly to this as either alignment. Yet you've fairly consistently held her as 'misguided town'. Why do you townread Hoopla?
Actually looking back now,

you don't list your read on Hoopla at all in 519

...

I believe their posting has been genuine.
I believe scum!Hoopla, while able and willing to keep their allies close, wouldn't outright declare a townblock in a game where it has been specifically outed that they like to play with a close-knit group as scum.
I think their reads have some level of truth to them, even if the final assessment of alignment is wrong.
And again bolded the part with a clear mistake.
Hoopla isn't separately mentioned, but they are included just as much as everyone else in that townblock.
They included themselves in that list, and therefore they included themselves in my lynchpool for D1.

So you think she's town, but you're fine with her being in the lynchpool. Your Hoopla read feels very milquetoast, like you could change your mind on what she would do at any time because she's a 'good scum player'.


I'm satisfied with this lynch.

[Klick]

@Klick

re, 855 - the argument on Gobble isn't isolated on Gobble's play. It's the fact that Gobble has accused other players of doing exactly what he's doing and called them scum for it. His scumhunting is contrived, or contradictory towards his own motives. He has tried to paint other players as scum with weak reasoning that could be turned back on him, it's pretty clear that he has no intent on moving the town forward in a positive manner (his latest V/LA notwithstanding). There's no actual *substance* to his scumhunting. It's surface level at best, and when pressed, he relies on weak platitudes like "When you don't advance a town win-con, that means you're scummy to me." It makes it difficult to attack his reads because he defaults to things like "Well I don't scumhunt like other people" and by keeping a very wide berth for what he defines as "scummy play," trying to excuse himself for flimsy reasoning and poor logic to push forward. The contradictory nature of his posting is what shows me contrived motive the most - leaning on someone for doing exactly what I'm doing is a pretty impressive way to open yourself up to counterwagonning and really doesn't sell things in a way that other town would want to join your wagons, if you wanted them to actually bite on.

I don't see a lot in this that I disagree with as statements. I just... don't really get 'this is scum' out of it?

Is gobble being hypocritical? Yeah. Is he giving surface-level content and not helping a ton? Sure. Would I expect this behavior to be much different depending on what color PM gobble got at the start of the game? Not really.

The main reason I think gobble is town is because he's had some pretty valid insight, in particular into Una. Hilariously, in contrast to what gobble has said about how he'd play, he has shown more genuine-looking scumhunting than most of the other players FMPOV.

[Klick]

It's worth noting that a lot of what you wind up townreading Una for is his interaction with gobble (and I thought I had a point in pointing this out, but I can no longer remember why... Oh well, I'll leave it and maybe you'll get something from it?)

The main reason I think gobble is town is because he's had some pretty valid insight, in particular into Una.

Actually, I don't hate the concept of an Una/gobble scumteam. Una has a lot more scum equity on his own than gobble does though.

[Klick]

I actually had no idea you were voting flippyNips because the last thing you said about his content was in your second post. You've talked plenty about your other two scumreads, but voted flippyNips without a single word about it.

He started posting content specifically in response to being called out for not posting content.

yeah beats me

My words, not yours. Doesn't seem like you cared all that much about anyone joining you in voting flippyNips, considering you just parked your vote there without a word.

It's a scummy opinion. You don't accomplish anything as town by being against it. Like, yay, Hoopla's town reads should be null reads and they shouldn't be cooperating...? Now what?

I don't get why everything has to be alignment based but the fact that you're pushing it as a scummy opinion rather than what it actually is - just an opinion - is not good

That's just my opinion man, not sure why you don't like it

[Klick]

It's a scummy opinion. You don't accomplish anything as town by being against it. Like, yay, Hoopla's town reads should be null reads and they shouldn't be cooperating...? Now what?

i'd actually like to hone into why this is a terrible statement overall - a little theory based but it's what i am thinking

for an opinion to be scummy, there has to be

scum

intent. this is something easy to say but hard to "prove". something to note is that the reverse is also true with having a town opinion. with this in mind, i'd like to re-examine what klick is saying here

what on

earth

would put my alignment toward scum for saying that i disagree with hoopla's ways of playing the game? town blocs are absolutely not essential nor are they always trusted, especially by people who are in and not in them (which is how they survive) - so how does the fact that I am saying that the "leader" of a town bloc, who I also think will flip scum, should not be trusted????????????????????????? this is what i meant above by scummy for an opinion, not an alignment based opinion

Remind me why you think Hoopla will flip scum?

I think you're using the anti-townbloc opinion to disrupt the town accomplishing things and push an agenda that is... not townreading people. Instead of putting effort towards something like getting people to vote with you on flippyNips, you're devoting a lot of energy into essentially nullifying the work of others. Again, what does this accomplish?

[Klick]

Una : weird wagon considering the peoples on it, and the fact that it's kinda stalling : scum / lynchbait for later?

The wagon was gobble/Hoopla/myself. You scumread gobble, but townread Hoopla. Am I to take that to mean you are uneasy about my slot?
What do you think of my recent points on Una-scum/gobble-town?

[CooLDoG]

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

If una is town then this is rather scummy vote.

?

[Hoopla]

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

If una is town then this is rather scummy vote.

X

no.

sorry, not allowed.

i'm revoking your shade-throwing privileges until you actually take a stance on these wagons and make a vote.

[bob3141]

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

If una is town then this is rather scummy vote.

X

no.

sorry, not allowed.

i'm revoking your shade-throwing privileges until you actually take a stance on these wagons and make a vote.

what shade? Simply pointing out if una is town. Now i will admit ive not caught up to properly read una yet. But cso far i dont think cool/una is t/t. Nor likely s/s


besides i already have taken stances. Mostly on town reads.


prety sure your town and got slight town read on agar. klict sounds towny

but i do think there is one scum in gooble and pan. so thats another realtionship i think is t/s. Leaning on prana

[PranaDevil]

Una : weird wagon considering the peoples on it, and the fact that it's kinda stalling : scum / lynchbait for later?

you think that wagon's weird? check out the brains trust powering mine!

Yeah agreed, your wagon is pretty terrible

Not really... apart from Flippy I feel that could be town.

I'm much more concerned about Una's. It definitely feels like a counter wagon to prevent scum being lynched. It even has two of my three scum reads on it... I want absolutely nothing to do with that wagon, it smells like it's recently delivered an order of Cod it's that fishy.

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

This is a bad post, look at who's on the wagon ffs.

after doing outside work cleaning up construction materials.

fuck it

VOTE: una

If una is town then this is rather scummy vote.

This feels like a set-up for after an Una-flip... I don't like it.

[bob3141]

prana interesting that you would pick that out. Only after two other playesr but ignor my posts for you entirely

VOTE: Prana

[Hoopla]

Not really... apart from Flippy I feel that could be town.

so, you're still reading flippy as scum?

you were around at the time of his claim, and decided to respond to an unrelated notscience post, which was your only contribution during this critical passage of play;

Honestly my biggest issue with him is how he’s been under the radar all game. I think he’s sitting exactly where scum would hide best and that deserves scrutiny- I don’t really remember ANYONE having anything substantial to say about him- and he’s the only real player sans bob who’s just catching up as his lurking predecessor never said anything either. He’s not making waves and he’s in that bunch of people saying they’re late game players like that gets taken into account when deciding to Lynch d1?

I mean... it's not like there's a recently finished game I was in, where one of the players (Una) was in that game... and where I was town and played no differently could be viewed is it?

Oh wait... there is.

this shows you were up-to-date with the game and reading along. so, why did replying to this take precedence over commenting on flippy's claim? especially since you apparently still scumread him - a contrary view to most of the town.

it appears to me that you lurked through that whole passage of play.

[notscience]

Well lynch prana tomorrow bob we have deadlines to worry about

[CooLDoG]

I'm voting una because I want to and he isn't the best player and the reads and analyis. I agree with prama that the people on the wagon are probably bad faith actors, but fuck it at this point it.

Prama hopping to defend based upon secondary reasons is kinda garbage as well...

[UnaBombaH]

Gimme ~24h and I'll try and clear some of my reads before you hammer.
I think I might be at L-1?
And even if I'm at L-2, a combination of scummy/stubborn players have put their feet down, so I do not see myself living through this if we want a lynch.

[brassherald]

Sorry I missed both vote counts today I'm going to get back to you tomorrow was very busy today