In post 1237, Blair wrote:
Can you talk to me a bit about why you switched from NDMath to osuka here?
This post: 1144.
Also i didn't like Osuka's post: 1086
What didn't you like about 1086?
I thought there was nothing weird about my post, so i didn't understand why he'd bring up it as an "odd" post. I also wish he'd elaborate why he said it now that i think about it.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
I didn't say I wanted to end the day. In fact, I pretty clearly stated I wasn't saying that.
Time to admit you just don't like me and bitching at me every time I post is just therapeutic or something.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
In post 1237, Blair wrote:
Can you talk to me a bit about why you switched from NDMath to osuka here?
This post: 1144.
Also i didn't like Osuka's post: 1086
What didn't you like about 1086?
I thought there was nothing weird about my post, so i didn't understand why he'd bring up it as an "odd" post. I also wish he'd elaborate why he said it now that i think about it.
I agree he should explain.
In the meantime, isn't it more likely that he saw something he thought was odd that you didn't, than that he is scum calling something odd that wasn't?
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
In post 1251, Blair wrote:I didn't say I wanted to end the day. In fact, I pretty clearly stated I wasn't saying that.
Time to admit you just don't like me and bitching at me every time I post is just therapeutic or something.
You suggest a consolidation of wagons. For what reason would you suggest this if it doesn't end the Day faster?
As I have already explained, because if we don't start narrowing things down soon we'll end up rushing to piecemeal a hammer together from a full-playerlist-lynchpool 8 hours before the deadline.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
In post 1251, Blair wrote:I didn't say I wanted to end the day. In fact, I pretty clearly stated I wasn't saying that.
Time to admit you just don't like me and bitching at me every time I post is just therapeutic or something.
You suggest a consolidation of wagons. For what reason would you suggest this if it doesn't end the Day faster?
As I have already explained, because if we don't start narrowing things down soon we'll end up rushing to piecemeal a hammer together from a full-playerlist-lynchpool 8 hours before the deadline.
That just shows that you really have a shit grasp of what is going on in this game.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
I am having a hard time buying the idea that Quick, a player who hails from a site where many games have 48 hour day phases, is suddenly scandalized by the thought of narrowing our PoE 8 days after Day Start anyway.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
In post 1256, Blair wrote:I am having a hard time buying the idea that Quick, a player who hails from a site where many games have 48 hour day phases, is suddenly scandalized by the thought of narrowing our PoE 8 days after Day Start anyway.
See join date. So this is just a low budget half assed argument because you want to end the day.
Also, it says exactly nothing about what YOU think. Why put the focus on me? Why am I suddenly the decider of what happens in this game? Surely you must have an opinion? You haven't actually responded to anything I have said. Why exactly shouldn't I vote you right now?
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
What makes you think I care if you vote me right now?
Stop trying to start a flame war. Anyone who believes I haven't responded to what you're saying only needs to scroll up. I have been abundantly clear that I think the osuka wagon is on town and spooled up suspiciously quickly, the NDMath wagon is reasonable, and CSF is likely scum.
Norwe I still lean town on, but his role in the osuka wagon gives me pause.
Quick is probably town but definitely not playing to his win condition at the moment, he has some axe to grind and that's fine but I'm done with him until something relevant comes up because his replies to me are 10% content 90% personal attacks. And that's being generous.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
The stupid argument between Quick/Blair aside. I agree that there are still a couple of low-presence slots that i'd like to see more content from if possible.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
In post 655, GuiltyLion wrote:-You could want to stick with me and see if a popopopopopopopopop mislynch could go through without you, in which case a) GL looks bad and b) you can then play the 'I told you so, GL is scum!!' card on D2
Nah, i would just nightkill you buddy.
this post is weird, not to mention the fact that nking guilty in that scenario might be a bad idea to begin with
In post 696, osuka wrote:im not sure how i feel about glitch. looker has barely posted so i dont have a read there either
glitch in particular has posts that don't really ping me either way, but i should iso that slot and delve in a little deeper sometime soon
nauci might be scum and couldve been trying to pocket me or something, but now that ive voiced that thought she should give up on that front. doesn't mean she's not scum though
not quite sure how i feel about lion and popopopopoopopoopopppop. it's definitely not svs, maybe tvt (unlikely?) but probably tvs. not sure who the scum there is, though. lion has some slightly scummy vibes if we're talking strictly meta, but i'm not too sure there either
both these posts are really waffley and don't take any stances on anything. There's also more problems with later posts which I'll get to in a second
In post 709, osuka wrote:he doesnt usually play this defensively when hes town from what i can tell. he seems to be very obviously uncomfortable, which is a tell of scum gl
this struck me as especially fake
first, I've only played one game with osuka before several years ago, so he's not speaking from personal experience here
second, I am well known for overreacting to votes/scumreads on me as town. I don't know where the "obviously uncomfortable" thing comes from at all - my problems with being scum have to do with keeping up and generating a
quantity
of content, it's not a
quality
of content problem. I've played 60-70+ games on site, have been around for years, I'm not someone who's "obviously uncomfortable" when I'm scum. Just less engaged than I am as town.
I think you're just making shit up, osuka. Unless you wanna link me to games you reviewed to come to this conclusion.
VOTE: osuka
Spoiler: GuiltyLion Immediately Spends a Bunch of Posts Pushing NDMath Instead of Osuka
In post 722, NDMath wrote:I don't buy you thought that it was very scummy unless you can be more specific as to why.
alright, if you ask for it I will indulge!
first things first, I didn't like opening with the "let's see if I can remember why I quoted these posts!", feels really performative and buddying up to the thread. feels like you're mindful of how people are going to perceive your entry
next, a number of your questions are useless, they don't need to be answered and I don't see how they will generate useful content. Often because there's more content later that makes the answers to the questions irrelevant, or because they're just kinda empty things to discuss. It seems pretty clear that Quick thought at least the 'hood' aspect of Truth's claim was legitimate. CSF has posted a bunch of content to work with, who cares about "avoiding" RVS? Do you really think that's the most indicative thing you could comment on in the first 150 posts, or even the most indicative thing about CSF's play in the game?
You also make a number of really hedgey or pointless comments. "Usually pushing for NL comes from scum" (hard disagree btw), "but here it's probably closer to null". Okay? Do you scumread Candy Shop or not? "I find this a likely town mindset though not necessarily townie". What? What's the point of that comment at all?
Next, you just voted/unvoted and peaced out. I think town should be at least putting a vote down in that situation to advance the game, even if they're not fully caught up yet. you STILL haven't voted. What are you doing to actually help catch/kill scum? How does town benefit at all from your presence in the game if you're not participating in any wagons?
Finally, adding your next post into the mix, it's not really clear to me
at all
why you have any of the reads that you do. Your reads list has most of the players in the game in ambiguous nully tiers with no explanation given as to how they got to be there or where you'd feel comfortable voting. Why am I lower than Candyshop, who is lower than everyone else in the game? Do you think I'm more likely scum? If both myself and Candyshop were at L-1 and you were holding the hammer, you'd vote me over Candy Shop - why? Why are Glitch/Nauci below the four players above them? Would you vote to lynch either of those slots today?
None of it is content that is useful to me to help understand your thought process or suggests that you're taking initiative to solve the game for your benefit or anyone else's. It all feels very timid and blendy, like you're just posting a formulaic template of what you think town posts are supposed to look like.
In post 791, GuiltyLion wrote:so I just tried to casually skim through NDMath town/scum to see if he always plays this poorly and it looks like this dude has never been scum yet on MS lmao
however, in his completed town games, he's definitely more goal-oriented in terms of votes/pressure and shows the ability to make insightful analysis, compared to what he's offered so far here.
So I think he's a great bet for scum and D1 lynch
osuka dialing back me, on first take I can kinda see it being town, but I don't like how he didn't really address where the meta point originally came from and I don't like the subtle redirect to Nauci who had started the wagon on him. I also just don't find Nauci's game all that scummy I think she's pretty likely town and a bad vote for today.
I agree with Quick that optimal mafia play is moreso about pushing mislynches than looking town, but I think the argument kinda quickly derailed from the original point about whether Nauci's play serves a scum agenda or not. The reason I think it's town-indicative that she defused the Osuka/Quick argument is because if she is scum then she's removing distractions or potential footholds to vote/engage at no benefit to herself. I don't agree that she gets any real "towncred" from that, as evidenced by the fact that many players are still throwing around the idea of voting her.
Glitch actually felt more townie to me in his most recent post than any of his past ones, he's not a bonafide townread yet and I don't think I'd cry if he got lynched but I'm more interested in osuka/NDMath slots first.
In post 792, GuiltyLion wrote:basically, if you wanna talk slots that are trying to look town for the sake of looking town vs trying to solve, reread what I pointed out about NDMath's posts. They're all fluff, there's nothing that actually leads to development of reads and there's no discernible thought process that indicates that he's trying to solve.
In post 828, NDMath wrote:
He's misinterpreting norwee's post in a way that's missing what's intended to be a humorous statement and instead interpreting it as norwee scumreading him. I found more of norwee's points valid and their tone townie.
This doesn't feel like honest analysis to me. Let's rewind and look at the Norway post that you say is "intended to be a humorous statement" -
In post 172, NorwegianboyEE wrote:GuiltyLion, can you please come in and obvtown it up soon. Your RVS entrance coupled with disappearing hasn’t exactly filled me to the brin with confidence regarding your slot.
what do you see as the humor in this post? This to me felt like a really bogus shade and I kinda took it personally, my RVS was completely NAI and I 'disappeared' because I had other stuff I wanted to do away from the site. I honestly hate coming to threads and seeing people talk about how scummy I am solely because I'm not available to post at all times, it gets under my skin. So what did I misinterpret here, exactly?
1. first things first, I didn't like opening with the "let's see if I can remember why I quoted these posts!", feels really performative and buddying up to the thread. feels like you're mindful of how people are going to perceive your entry
2. next, a number of your questions are useless, they don't need to be answered and I don't see how they will generate useful content. Often because there's more content later that makes the answers to the questions irrelevant, or because they're just kinda empty things to discuss. It seems pretty clear that Quick thought at least the 'hood' aspect of Truth's claim was legitimate. CSF has posted a bunch of content to work with, who cares about "avoiding" RVS? Do you really think that's the most indicative thing you could comment on in the first 150 posts, or even the most indicative thing about CSF's play in the game?
3. You also make a number of really hedgey or pointless comments. "Usually pushing for NL comes from scum" (hard disagree btw), "but here it's probably closer to null". Okay? Do you scumread Candy Shop or not? "I find this a likely town mindset though not necessarily townie". What? What's the point of that comment at all?
4. Next, you just voted/unvoted and peaced out. I think town should be at least putting a vote down in that situation to advance the game, even if they're not fully caught up yet. you STILL haven't voted. What are you doing to actually help catch/kill scum? How does town benefit at all from your presence in the game if you're not participating in any wagons?
5. Finally, adding your next post into the mix, it's not really clear to me
at all
why you have any of the reads that you do. Your reads list has most of the players in the game in ambiguous nully tiers with no explanation given as to how they got to be there or where you'd feel comfortable voting. Why am I lower than Candyshop, who is lower than everyone else in the game? Do you think I'm more likely scum? If both myself and Candyshop were at L-1 and you were holding the hammer, you'd vote me over Candy Shop - why? Why are Glitch/Nauci below the four players above them? Would you vote to lynch either of those slots today?
6. None of it is content that is useful to me to help understand your thought process or suggests that you're taking initiative to solve the game for your benefit or anyone else's. It all feels very timid and blendy, like you're just posting a formulaic template of what you think town posts are supposed to look like.
(Numbers Inserted)
1. I am a very self-conscious player. So yes I care how people perceive my entry.
2. Funny enough, both examples you cite are actually looker's words due to it spoilering weirdly.
@Looker
3. Pushing for NL coming from scum is from personal experience it has come from scum more times than town. At the moment in time I wasn't sure, as of completing the catchup I scumread the slot. The comment on tstbs meant that I felt quick's mindset was that of a townie, but I believed it was probably something that mafia could/would fake. I decided to keep it I guess?
4. Voting was accidental due to looker's post quoting weird. I didn't see value in voting at that point in time. I don't get why I can't be not voting in peace when it's still early in the dayphase and I'm not one to case early on. I'm helping just as much without voting in that you got the impression that if I did vote it would be for you and received the same amount of pressure from it, I don't get that point at all.
5. The purpose of the readlist was to summarize the catchup and fill in what wasn't said in terms of reads. I'm more willing to hang the further down the list, and I tend to be a more defensive player in that I prefer not having my townreads hung to getting my scumreads hung.
6. I'm not comprehending this paragraph.
2 and first part of 4 - my bad, these are bad mistakes on my part, fair enough.
second half of 4 - I fundamentally disagree with this though. You're not creating the same amount of pressure, you're shirking the responsibility of putting your money where your mouth is. And you're not putting pressure on other players too! if I hit L-1 that becomes a more difficult game state for scum off the wagon, because now my claim or lynch is potentially imminent and they gotta either explain why they're okay with the situation
or
start defending me. If they don't comment on an L-1 wagon at all it looks really bad on them both at the time and in later days. This doesn't really apply the same way as the wagon has fewer and fewer votes, lots of players can get away with ignoring an L-3 or an L-4 wagon.
5 - I think you kinda missed my point here. I'm not so much questioning the purpose of a reads list in general, I'm more specifically questioning why your tiers exist, they feel arbitrary. Let's just zoom in on Candy Shop for a single example - it's baffling to me that he somehow exists in between Glitch/Nauci and myself. Presumably, all of us are scumreads to you in some form or the other. How and why did you decide to put him in a tier of his own? Why not just have him on my tier, or the tier above? What meaning were you trying to convey by separating the four of us into three tiers like that?
6 - I feel it's kinda clear? None of your post by post comments lead me to understand how you then created that readslist. Largely because of my issues in point 5, I can't trace a clear train of thought from "here's my thoughts as I'm reading the game" -> "here's how my reads got to be where they are".
In post 828, NDMath wrote:
From context of this post and that they're my most recent games, I'm assuming the games you Iso'd my slot were open777 and largenomal227.
In open 777 I wasn't 'townie' and 'insightful' until day 2. Day 1 I was scumread by many players and my reads were very omgussy.
In largenormal227 I layed low and didn't do much until I lead massclaim. I definitely wasn't very goal oriented in this game.
Also, I would love to point out the use of 'so far here' as opposed to presumably looking at most of the game in the other games.
I'm not sure why this counts as a defense? Aren't you saying basically that as town you don't start trying until later, and you haven't tried yet here? How is that different from a scum game where you don't try?
and I definitely think you were more goal oriented in large normal 227. Here are your second, third, fourth, fifth posts from that game:
In post 95, word321 wrote:while we r at it, lets try to make communications clean and fluid
the more content we have, the better
if we need to translate every 2 posts, we r looseing possibilities on interactions
dont like this post it screams "im towny"
In post 130, popopopopopopo wrote:in a large game like this, picking some VI to quicklynch isn't a bad idea day 1.
While I dont like the idea behind this post im inclined to believe it comes from town for now
In post 175, midwaybear wrote:I like what he is doing so far. He is clarifying stuff and also trying to scumhunt(votato)
He said he was really good at scum though, but I still tl stan1ey
Similar to what I was thinking when I read his iso so far. His answers to questions all seem natural.
The more word talks the more I like his progression.
This is like page 7-8 or whatever of that game and ALL of these posts stand out more to me in terms of trying to sort players, generate content, and share reads to influence than thread than anything you've done here so far. I'll grant you that maybe it's been harder in this game because pages and pages were generated while you weren't around, but tbh if you're town in this game, you'd be far better served just quoting singular posts and giving takes like you did in 227 than doing the giant fluff walls filled with empty statements like you've given us so far.
Spoiler: GuiltyLion Appears to Become Conscious of This, and Tries to Explain Why He Isn't Voting For NDMath
In post 986, NDMath wrote:Fyi I just finished a scum game, mini theme 2145.
By some of the meta argument it supports the conclusion I'm scum this game so I'm bringing it up before someone else does.
NDMath, what specifically about that game do you think supports a meta argument of you being scum in this one?
I dunno about this post, I feel a lot of people jumped at it but I'm having a hard time convincing myself that scum!NDMath actually goes ahead and posts this. I just wouldn't even bring it up at all if it were me. Or if I did bring it up I'd try to talk about how the completed scum game makes me town in this game. This just doesn't feel like something that is likely to come from scum
VOTE: GuiltyLion
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
GuiltyLion casually ignoring this game once suspicion had lowered on him is bothering me tbh.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
I stumbled upon this case when I noticed GuiltyLion wasn't voting for NDMath in the vote count, because I was sure he was based on his posts.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
In post 1263, NorwegianboyEE wrote:GuiltyLion casually ignoring this game once suspicion had lowered on him is bothering me tbh.
what am I am ignoring?
I posted several times not 24 hours ago and responded to everything worth responding to. I'm voting one of the leading wagons. I've skimmed over everything since then and a lot of it was pretty useless. I do have a few things I want to address but I'm working right now and haven't bothered to do that yet.
I'm going to quote myself again:
In post 877, GuiltyLion wrote:I honestly hate coming to threads and seeing people talk about how scummy I am solely because I'm not available to post at all times, it gets under my skin.
quit shading me like this Norway, it's absolute garbage. I'm one of the most active posters in the game and I'm here.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
Hi all. Sorry I haven’t post in the last two days. Been busy. Have lots of reading for tonight and will post with more content when I catch up on the last 5 pages or so.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
In post 655, GuiltyLion wrote:-You could want to stick with me and see if a popopopopopopopopop mislynch could go through without you, in which case a) GL looks bad and b) you can then play the 'I told you so, GL is scum!!' card on D2
Nah, i would just nightkill you buddy.
this post is weird, not to mention the fact that nking guilty in that scenario might be a bad idea to begin with
In post 696, osuka wrote:im not sure how i feel about glitch. looker has barely posted so i dont have a read there either
glitch in particular has posts that don't really ping me either way, but i should iso that slot and delve in a little deeper sometime soon
nauci might be scum and couldve been trying to pocket me or something, but now that ive voiced that thought she should give up on that front. doesn't mean she's not scum though
not quite sure how i feel about lion and popopopopoopopoopopppop. it's definitely not svs, maybe tvt (unlikely?) but probably tvs. not sure who the scum there is, though. lion has some slightly scummy vibes if we're talking strictly meta, but i'm not too sure there either
both these posts are really waffley and don't take any stances on anything. There's also more problems with later posts which I'll get to in a second
In post 709, osuka wrote:he doesnt usually play this defensively when hes town from what i can tell. he seems to be very obviously uncomfortable, which is a tell of scum gl
this struck me as especially fake
first, I've only played one game with osuka before several years ago, so he's not speaking from personal experience here
second, I am well known for overreacting to votes/scumreads on me as town. I don't know where the "obviously uncomfortable" thing comes from at all - my problems with being scum have to do with keeping up and generating a
quantity
of content, it's not a
quality
of content problem. I've played 60-70+ games on site, have been around for years, I'm not someone who's "obviously uncomfortable" when I'm scum. Just less engaged than I am as town.
I think you're just making shit up, osuka. Unless you wanna link me to games you reviewed to come to this conclusion.
VOTE: osuka
I think osuka is scum, and have given several reasons why I'm voting there.
In post 722, NDMath wrote:I don't buy you thought that it was very scummy unless you can be more specific as to why.
alright, if you ask for it I will indulge!
first things first, I didn't like opening with the "let's see if I can remember why I quoted these posts!", feels really performative and buddying up to the thread. feels like you're mindful of how people are going to perceive your entry
next, a number of your questions are useless, they don't need to be answered and I don't see how they will generate useful content. Often because there's more content later that makes the answers to the questions irrelevant, or because they're just kinda empty things to discuss. It seems pretty clear that Quick thought at least the 'hood' aspect of Truth's claim was legitimate. CSF has posted a bunch of content to work with, who cares about "avoiding" RVS? Do you really think that's the most indicative thing you could comment on in the first 150 posts, or even the most indicative thing about CSF's play in the game?
You also make a number of really hedgey or pointless comments. "Usually pushing for NL comes from scum" (hard disagree btw), "but here it's probably closer to null". Okay? Do you scumread Candy Shop or not? "I find this a likely town mindset though not necessarily townie". What? What's the point of that comment at all?
Next, you just voted/unvoted and peaced out. I think town should be at least putting a vote down in that situation to advance the game, even if they're not fully caught up yet. you STILL haven't voted. What are you doing to actually help catch/kill scum? How does town benefit at all from your presence in the game if you're not participating in any wagons?
Finally, adding your next post into the mix, it's not really clear to me
at all
why you have any of the reads that you do. Your reads list has most of the players in the game in ambiguous nully tiers with no explanation given as to how they got to be there or where you'd feel comfortable voting. Why am I lower than Candyshop, who is lower than everyone else in the game? Do you think I'm more likely scum? If both myself and Candyshop were at L-1 and you were holding the hammer, you'd vote me over Candy Shop - why? Why are Glitch/Nauci below the four players above them? Would you vote to lynch either of those slots today?
None of it is content that is useful to me to help understand your thought process or suggests that you're taking initiative to solve the game for your benefit or anyone else's. It all feels very timid and blendy, like you're just posting a formulaic template of what you think town posts are supposed to look like.
In post 791, GuiltyLion wrote:so I just tried to casually skim through NDMath town/scum to see if he always plays this poorly and it looks like this dude has never been scum yet on MS lmao
however, in his completed town games, he's definitely more goal-oriented in terms of votes/pressure and shows the ability to make insightful analysis, compared to what he's offered so far here.
So I think he's a great bet for scum and D1 lynch
osuka dialing back me, on first take I can kinda see it being town, but I don't like how he didn't really address where the meta point originally came from and I don't like the subtle redirect to Nauci who had started the wagon on him. I also just don't find Nauci's game all that scummy I think she's pretty likely town and a bad vote for today.
I agree with Quick that optimal mafia play is moreso about pushing mislynches than looking town, but I think the argument kinda quickly derailed from the original point about whether Nauci's play serves a scum agenda or not. The reason I think it's town-indicative that she defused the Osuka/Quick argument is because if she is scum then she's removing distractions or potential footholds to vote/engage at no benefit to herself. I don't agree that she gets any real "towncred" from that, as evidenced by the fact that many players are still throwing around the idea of voting her.
Glitch actually felt more townie to me in his most recent post than any of his past ones, he's not a bonafide townread yet and I don't think I'd cry if he got lynched but I'm more interested in osuka/NDMath slots first.
In post 792, GuiltyLion wrote:basically, if you wanna talk slots that are trying to look town for the sake of looking town vs trying to solve, reread what I pointed out about NDMath's posts. They're all fluff, there's nothing that actually leads to development of reads and there's no discernible thought process that indicates that he's trying to solve.
In post 828, NDMath wrote:
He's misinterpreting norwee's post in a way that's missing what's intended to be a humorous statement and instead interpreting it as norwee scumreading him. I found more of norwee's points valid and their tone townie.
This doesn't feel like honest analysis to me. Let's rewind and look at the Norway post that you say is "intended to be a humorous statement" -
In post 172, NorwegianboyEE wrote:GuiltyLion, can you please come in and obvtown it up soon. Your RVS entrance coupled with disappearing hasn’t exactly filled me to the brin with confidence regarding your slot.
what do you see as the humor in this post? This to me felt like a really bogus shade and I kinda took it personally, my RVS was completely NAI and I 'disappeared' because I had other stuff I wanted to do away from the site. I honestly hate coming to threads and seeing people talk about how scummy I am solely because I'm not available to post at all times, it gets under my skin. So what did I misinterpret here, exactly?
1. first things first, I didn't like opening with the "let's see if I can remember why I quoted these posts!", feels really performative and buddying up to the thread. feels like you're mindful of how people are going to perceive your entry
2. next, a number of your questions are useless, they don't need to be answered and I don't see how they will generate useful content. Often because there's more content later that makes the answers to the questions irrelevant, or because they're just kinda empty things to discuss. It seems pretty clear that Quick thought at least the 'hood' aspect of Truth's claim was legitimate. CSF has posted a bunch of content to work with, who cares about "avoiding" RVS? Do you really think that's the most indicative thing you could comment on in the first 150 posts, or even the most indicative thing about CSF's play in the game?
3. You also make a number of really hedgey or pointless comments. "Usually pushing for NL comes from scum" (hard disagree btw), "but here it's probably closer to null". Okay? Do you scumread Candy Shop or not? "I find this a likely town mindset though not necessarily townie". What? What's the point of that comment at all?
4. Next, you just voted/unvoted and peaced out. I think town should be at least putting a vote down in that situation to advance the game, even if they're not fully caught up yet. you STILL haven't voted. What are you doing to actually help catch/kill scum? How does town benefit at all from your presence in the game if you're not participating in any wagons?
5. Finally, adding your next post into the mix, it's not really clear to me
at all
why you have any of the reads that you do. Your reads list has most of the players in the game in ambiguous nully tiers with no explanation given as to how they got to be there or where you'd feel comfortable voting. Why am I lower than Candyshop, who is lower than everyone else in the game? Do you think I'm more likely scum? If both myself and Candyshop were at L-1 and you were holding the hammer, you'd vote me over Candy Shop - why? Why are Glitch/Nauci below the four players above them? Would you vote to lynch either of those slots today?
6. None of it is content that is useful to me to help understand your thought process or suggests that you're taking initiative to solve the game for your benefit or anyone else's. It all feels very timid and blendy, like you're just posting a formulaic template of what you think town posts are supposed to look like.
(Numbers Inserted)
1. I am a very self-conscious player. So yes I care how people perceive my entry.
2. Funny enough, both examples you cite are actually looker's words due to it spoilering weirdly.
@Looker
3. Pushing for NL coming from scum is from personal experience it has come from scum more times than town. At the moment in time I wasn't sure, as of completing the catchup I scumread the slot. The comment on tstbs meant that I felt quick's mindset was that of a townie, but I believed it was probably something that mafia could/would fake. I decided to keep it I guess?
4. Voting was accidental due to looker's post quoting weird. I didn't see value in voting at that point in time. I don't get why I can't be not voting in peace when it's still early in the dayphase and I'm not one to case early on. I'm helping just as much without voting in that you got the impression that if I did vote it would be for you and received the same amount of pressure from it, I don't get that point at all.
5. The purpose of the readlist was to summarize the catchup and fill in what wasn't said in terms of reads. I'm more willing to hang the further down the list, and I tend to be a more defensive player in that I prefer not having my townreads hung to getting my scumreads hung.
6. I'm not comprehending this paragraph.
2 and first part of 4 - my bad, these are bad mistakes on my part, fair enough.
second half of 4 - I fundamentally disagree with this though. You're not creating the same amount of pressure, you're shirking the responsibility of putting your money where your mouth is. And you're not putting pressure on other players too! if I hit L-1 that becomes a more difficult game state for scum off the wagon, because now my claim or lynch is potentially imminent and they gotta either explain why they're okay with the situation
or
start defending me. If they don't comment on an L-1 wagon at all it looks really bad on them both at the time and in later days. This doesn't really apply the same way as the wagon has fewer and fewer votes, lots of players can get away with ignoring an L-3 or an L-4 wagon.
5 - I think you kinda missed my point here. I'm not so much questioning the purpose of a reads list in general, I'm more specifically questioning why your tiers exist, they feel arbitrary. Let's just zoom in on Candy Shop for a single example - it's baffling to me that he somehow exists in between Glitch/Nauci and myself. Presumably, all of us are scumreads to you in some form or the other. How and why did you decide to put him in a tier of his own? Why not just have him on my tier, or the tier above? What meaning were you trying to convey by separating the four of us into three tiers like that?
6 - I feel it's kinda clear? None of your post by post comments lead me to understand how you then created that readslist. Largely because of my issues in point 5, I can't trace a clear train of thought from "here's my thoughts as I'm reading the game" -> "here's how my reads got to be where they are".
In post 828, NDMath wrote:
From context of this post and that they're my most recent games, I'm assuming the games you Iso'd my slot were open777 and largenomal227.
In open 777 I wasn't 'townie' and 'insightful' until day 2. Day 1 I was scumread by many players and my reads were very omgussy.
In largenormal227 I layed low and didn't do much until I lead massclaim. I definitely wasn't very goal oriented in this game.
Also, I would love to point out the use of 'so far here' as opposed to presumably looking at most of the game in the other games.
I'm not sure why this counts as a defense? Aren't you saying basically that as town you don't start trying until later, and you haven't tried yet here? How is that different from a scum game where you don't try?
and I definitely think you were more goal oriented in large normal 227. Here are your second, third, fourth, fifth posts from that game:
In post 95, word321 wrote:while we r at it, lets try to make communications clean and fluid
the more content we have, the better
if we need to translate every 2 posts, we r looseing possibilities on interactions
dont like this post it screams "im towny"
In post 130, popopopopopopo wrote:in a large game like this, picking some VI to quicklynch isn't a bad idea day 1.
While I dont like the idea behind this post im inclined to believe it comes from town for now
In post 175, midwaybear wrote:I like what he is doing so far. He is clarifying stuff and also trying to scumhunt(votato)
He said he was really good at scum though, but I still tl stan1ey
Similar to what I was thinking when I read his iso so far. His answers to questions all seem natural.
The more word talks the more I like his progression.
This is like page 7-8 or whatever of that game and ALL of these posts stand out more to me in terms of trying to sort players, generate content, and share reads to influence than thread than anything you've done here so far. I'll grant you that maybe it's been harder in this game because pages and pages were generated while you weren't around, but tbh if you're town in this game, you'd be far better served just quoting singular posts and giving takes like you did in 227 than doing the giant fluff walls filled with empty statements like you've given us so far.
The funny thing about mafia is that there are multiple players on the scum team! I often have several scumreads despite having tragically only one vote. I suspected NDMath and was in the process of sorting him, and for most of these quotes you posted there was no wagon on him while there was a wagon on osuka and so there was no benefit to switching. Also, several of them are
direct responses
to posts he made with the intent of sorting/interrogating him, that's not me "pushing" him.
In post 986, NDMath wrote:Fyi I just finished a scum game, mini theme 2145.
By some of the meta argument it supports the conclusion I'm scum this game so I'm bringing it up before someone else does.
NDMath, what specifically about that game do you think supports a meta argument of you being scum in this one?
I dunno about this post, I feel a lot of people jumped at it but I'm having a hard time convincing myself that scum!NDMath actually goes ahead and posts this. I just wouldn't even bring it up at all if it were me. Or if I did bring it up I'd try to talk about how the completed scum game makes me town in this game. This just doesn't feel like something that is likely to come from scum
This is actually a very important post and you're completely misrepping me. I am quite skeptical now that NDMath is scum, primarily because of 986, and that's exactly why I made this post. That's just not a post I really see coming from scum, I find it the most town-indicative thing he's done.
What's your thought on 986? And further, what do you actually think is my scum agenda here? Is NDMath my buddy and I'm just drilling/1v1ing with him earlier in D1 for ~associatives~ but then deciding not to vote him which completely negates the point of a bus? Or is he town, in which case I'm deciding not to vote him just when his mislynch is becoming really easy to justify voting/pushing? Please explain what you see going on there from scum!GL perspective.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
I'm dead serious when I say that if you're town this game, my opinion of you as a player has dropped as result of how you've repeatedly engaged with me in bad faith. You were much more enjoyable and pro-town in that Newbie game and you'd be better off trying to learn from that as opposed to whatever this is
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
In post 1269, GuiltyLion wrote:You were much more enjoyable and pro-town in that Newbie game and you'd be better off trying to learn from that as opposed to whatever this is
You scumread me hard in the newbie game multiple times.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
I think you've got a selective memory or something, i'm not really playing all that differently here.
Anyway, i'm completely fine ending the day in a Osuka lynch today. So unless there are strong dissenting opinions i'd like it if we just made a lynch happen soon.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
I don't think I ever scumread you hard, I'm pretty sure I just got paranoid of you at points, but regardless, what I'm talking about is the behavior like name-calling, the one-liner shades about bullshit NAI tells (primarily activity), refusing to work with me on other slots, refusing to even consider whether I am town. The Norway I remember from the Newbie was thoughtful, considerate, constantly re-evaluating. The Norway here has been really arrogant and dismissive.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
and I'll grant that maybe that's partly my fault for opening with a push on you that made you feel threatened or whatever, but I really could do without feeling like I'm obligated to post here every 4 hours lest you or Quick or popoppopoppoppo or whoever decide to accuse me of "ignoring" things again.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
In post 1273, GuiltyLion wrote:maybe that's partly my fault for opening with a push on you
Why yes.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
