Mini 630: Council of Eville: Game Ovah!

[Rage]

Huh? I'm not trying to get lynched, I'm trying to see who wants to bandwagon on me.

If you want me to be more specific I thought post 260 was pretty scummy

What do you find scummy about that post?

In other words, you're essentially claiming vanilla, and not a power role, correct?

Do you not know what a Council Member is?

PBPA

What's that?

[forbiddanlight]

What's that?

Point by Point Analysis.

[Goatrevolt]

Huh? I'm not trying to get lynched, I'm trying to see who wants to bandwagon on me.

To what end? How is that pro-town at all?

[StrangerCoug]

Huh? I'm not trying to get lynched, I'm trying to see who wants to bandwagon on me.

If you do not want to be lynched, then setting yourself up to be bandwagoned makes no sense to me. You're confusing me with this post.

FoS: Rage

[Megatheory]

sthar8

: You've given me a lot to think about. To answer your question, I found Rage's alvinz vote very scummy and his explanation poor. Apparently, his excuse is that he is trying to draw votes from scum. That wasn't really obvious until later, so he may have manufactured that excuse. On the other hand, what he is doing doesn't make sense for a scum to do. I think he might expect this town to not lynch him given the record we have so far.

I'm a little less sure that I want to lynch him, but I'm not ready to unvote yet, either.

alvinz

: could you possibly elaborate on why you thing Goatrevolt is scum? You've been mostly asserting that he is, but I don't think you've provided any good evidence yet.

See, I've had a scummy feeling about Goatrevolt, but it's nothing I can really prove yet. This post, though, made my skin crawl:

I don't want to lynch SC for a lot of the reasons Mega brought up. I can't really read his playstyle very well, because he's made these same kind of scummy mistakes in every game I've played with him. For that reason, as of yet, I haven't seen anything that would really make me think he's scum.

I'd rather lynch someone who I think has a decent chance of being scum, rather than someone who is always scummy and is tough to read.

I actually agree with almost the entirety of Megatheory's post, and am still happy with my vote on skillit.

This looks like buddying to me. Nothing much else has caught my attention about Goat, but if there is something, I think it would be in the alvinz case. Vote patterns would be a good place to look, also. I would be doing it myself right now, but I really need to reread in the other game I'm in as I've kind of neglected it.

Skillit

: You said the case against you is nothing but asserting that you're scum. That's not true. This is the case on you that I posted:

...In general I don't like his reasons for voting SC in post 53, but I especially find his tattling accusation to be useless. Annoyance is a terrible reason to suspect someone. I definitely don't think SC's "tattling" was scummy, even if it was strange. That, by itself, doesn't make Skillit scum, but I do think a scum would build that into their case.

In post 97, he makes a summary of the battle between alvinz and Goat. He says he posts it for clarification purposes, but after confirmation is given, he does not give an opinion in his next two posts. Why did he want clarification if he wasn't going to follow up on it until he was called out on it? He says he was sidetracked, but he could have easily added his stance in with those two posts. In fact, he wrote a long paragraph in first post after the summary

about

the summary, but does not take a side!

He says

my sance on Alvinz is that his actions are scumy, but dont

prove

to me that he is scum.

This is my stance on him, so I can't fault Skillit for that. However, he votes alvinz after he asks to be lynched. That's a bizarre time to vote, IMO, as even though asking to be lynched

should

be a null tell so that scum are not encouraged to use it, in my experience it is almost always done by townies. Even then, it should be a

null tell

. In everything alvinz has done, that would be, IMO, the least of his sins.

Skillit also uses the fact that some of his stances are merely "his opinion" as a defense. How are we supposed to determine someone's alignment if anything they say can be dismissed as an opinion? This seems like a strange defense coming from Skillit when he rebuts SC's defense in post 64, by, partially, stating that we have to guess at SC's motives. We have to guess

everybody's

motives from time to time, and it's really unhelpful to simply dismiss arguments as being a matter of opinion.

In summary, I think these things together indicates that Skillit is probably scum

Vote: Skillit

I want to touch on the other players, but I'm going to do that later today.

I'd like to hear your response.

GohstWriter

: You're looking very scummy to me right now. I'd like to hear who your suspects are, and maybe some analysis. Right now you look like scum who is staying under the radar and riding town suspicions.

Like I said, I'd be looking at Goatrevolt (and forbiddanlight, too) in depth, but I need to reread in my other game. Maybe later this week.

[forbiddanlight]

Like I said, I'd be looking at Goatrevolt (and forbiddanlight, too) in depth, but I need to reread in my other game. Maybe later this week.

Me too eh? I haven't the faintest why.

[Skillit]

i didnt mean to imply that it was just asserted, i more ment that it

felt

like it was just asserted. Im not used to not having vocal inflictions to work with. @sthar - thats i guess why i

bold

and

italics

and

underline

too much

I especially find his tattling accusation to be useless. Annoyance is a terrible reason to suspect someone

He posted it thinking there was a person who had broken the rules. you tell on someone when you want them to get in trouble. I think that scum would really just get all hot and bothered if they could arrange for a modkill, it would be like getting a free daykill. i think thats at least potentially scummy. All i said was that he might have been fishing for a modkill.

I definitely don't think SC's "tattling" was scummy, even if it was strange.

If you dont thats fine. i do. I think someone doing something i would enver ever feel motivated as town to do, but would only try as scum is at least worth noting. i really dont even think i have even been chasing after him for that. as i said before it was a minor point to begin with, but it was what started me looking at him closer. Plus the day was only just getting going at that time.

In post 97, he makes a summary of the battle between alvinz and Goat. He says he posts it for clarification purposes, but after confirmation is given, he does not give an opinion in his next two posts. Why did he want clarification if he wasn't going to follow up on it until he was called out on it?

1) this implies that i would only have "weighed in" when it was demanded.
2)

I had intended it to be read as a precurser to an actual post.The point was to first make sure everyone (including myself) was fully up to speed as i was geting the feeling most people were skimming the goat and alvinz issue and to see what developed when everything was summed up nicely. Also i only had time today to summarize but please take it however you want.

3) the fact that my next few posts were not my stance on the issue in no way implies that i was refusing to take a stance, merely that i was addressing another issue.
4) when i started looking back at the issue i had goat in my head as this semantics chasing tenacious bulldog and alvinz as the unlucky target, as i reread it i began to see it another way. i needed to summ it up on paper in front of me briefly so that i could look at the whole picture at once. while i was looking over this i figured id post it for the rest of the town to look have. perhaps like an "exhibit A" anyway, i was still on the scale, not ready to have a final weigh in when i posted it the summ. since my stance had shifted so drastically i wanted to do what i could to make sure my new impression of the chain was as accurate as possible.

He says he was sidetracked, but he could have easily added his stance in with those two posts. In fact, he wrote a long paragraph in first post after the summary about the summary, but does not take a side!

1) the so called "long paragraph" was an answer to someone claiming that my summing post was designed to look like i was saying a lot without saying anything - which it was not.
2) about 4 days of time passed from "initial summ" to "final stance". i dont usually spend much weekend time at home, work gets busy; we were not backed up against a deadline and i didnt realize that summing it up demanded such an immediate response.
3)nobody had even asked me for my stance when i started talking about the issue. its not like i had posted that as a stalling tatic or something, it was just my way of entering the discussion formally. steppin up to the plate so to speak.

he votes alvinz after he asks to be lynched. That's a bizarre time to vote, IMO, as even though

asking to be lynched should be a null tell so that scum are not encouraged to use it

, in my experience it is almost always done by townies. Even then, it should be a null tell. In everything alvinz has done, that would be, IMO, the least of his sins.

1) just because in

your

experience something is a null or town tell does not mean that it is to everyone. if in your opinion demanding to be lynched and refusing to answer questions isnt scummy great. it is to me. to you what was the least of his sins was to me his greatest.
2) i dont understand the underlined part specifically at all. if it was considered a null tell or a town tell than they might use it on us, but if doing something is looked at as scummy as a rule why would scum be encoureged to do it?
3)i had said in my previous post that he was at "strike 2" status - which to me is like saying he was just one telling mistake away from swaying me. he responded with (to me) a whopping tell.

Skillit also uses the fact that some of his stances are merely "his opinion" as a defense.

i used this as a defense only when i said that i read someones statement one way and was then told i was wrong. Was there any other issue i said this? that wasn't even a stance really it was an impression of a post.

[Megatheory]

Like I said, I'd be looking at Goatrevolt (and forbiddanlight, too) in depth, but I need to reread in my other game. Maybe later this week.

Me too eh? I haven't the faintest why.

Like I said when I first analyzed you, at first I thought you were trying to stay under the radar, but later I thought you were protown. I think a second look at you would be a good idea, especially after you have posted more content.

[forbiddanlight]

Like I said when I first analyzed you, at first I thought you were trying to stay under the radar, but later I thought you were protown. I think a second look at you would be a good idea, especially after you have posted more content.

Haha, sounds like fun. Have at it. If you want, that summary of my actions should be fairly unbiased. Course, I don't expect you to believe that .

[Megatheory]

In post 97, he makes a summary of the battle between alvinz and Goat. He says he posts it for clarification purposes, but after confirmation is given, he does not give an opinion in his next two posts. Why did he want clarification if he wasn't going to follow up on it until he was called out on it?

1) this implies that i would only have "weighed in" when it was demanded.

The problem is, you

didn't

weigh in until it was demanded.

2)

I had intended it to be read as a precurser to an actual post.The point was to first make sure everyone (including myself) was fully up to speed as i was geting the feeling most people were skimming the goat and alvinz issue and to see what developed when everything was summed up nicely. Also i only had time today to summarize but please take it however you want.

3) the fact that my next few posts were not my stance on the issue in no way implies that i was refusing to take a stance, merely that i was addressing another issue.

Fair enough. It seemed strange to me that you would take the time to explain your summary post without making a decision regarding what the summary was about.

4) when i started looking back at the issue i had goat in my head as this semantics chasing tenacious bulldog and alvinz as the unlucky target, as i reread it i began to see it another way. i needed to summ it up on paper in front of me briefly so that i could look at the whole picture at once. while i was looking over this i figured id post it for the rest of the town to look have. perhaps like an "exhibit A" anyway, i was still on the scale, not ready to have a final weigh in when i posted it the summ. since my stance had shifted so drastically i wanted to do what i could to make sure my new impression of the chain was as accurate as possible.

Your summary is definitely a good thing, though any townie who relied on your summary rather than looking at the actual posts and reaching conclusions on their own could potentially make poor decisions. Goat agreed that the summary covered the issue, but alvinz never did. I definitely understand your stance shift there.

He says he was sidetracked, but he could have easily added his stance in with those two posts. In fact, he wrote a long paragraph in first post after the summary about the summary, but does not take a side!

1) the so called "long paragraph" was an answer to someone claiming that my summing post was designed to look like i was saying a lot without saying anything - which it was not.
2) about 4 days of time passed from "initial summ" to "final stance". i dont usually spend much weekend time at home, work gets busy; we were not backed up against a deadline and i didnt realize that summing it up demanded such an immediate response.
3)nobody had even asked me for my stance when i started talking about the issue. its not like i had posted that as a stalling tatic or something, it was just my way of entering the discussion formally. steppin up to the plate so to speak.

I see. This all happened when I had not yet replaced in the game, so I didn't factor in the timing.

he votes alvinz after he asks to be lynched. That's a bizarre time to vote, IMO, as even though

asking to be lynched should be a null tell so that scum are not encouraged to use it

, in my experience it is almost always done by townies. Even then, it should be a null tell. In everything alvinz has done, that would be, IMO, the least of his sins.

1) just because in

your

experience something is a null or town tell does not mean that it is to everyone. if in your opinion demanding to be lynched and refusing to answer questions isnt scummy great. it is to me. to you what was the least of his sins was to me his greatest.
2) i dont understand the underlined part specifically at all. if it was considered a null tell or a town tell than they might use it on us, but if doing something is looked at as scummy as a rule why would scum be encoureged to do it?
3)i had said in my previous post that he was at "strike 2" status - which to me is like saying he was just one telling mistake away from swaying me. he responded with (to me) a whopping tell.

If this really all comes down to experience, then how can any town rely on asking for a lynch as a tell? The solution, I think, is to treat it as a null tell. Now, I can't fold my arms and pout while you think it's a scum tell. That's part of the reason I think it should be a null tell, so townie's don't develop pointless suspicions of other townies over things that come down to experience.

Skillit also uses the fact that some of his stances are merely "his opinion" as a defense.

i used this as a defense only when i said that i read someones statement one way and was then told i was wrong. Was there any other issue i said this? that wasn't even a stance really it was an impression of a post.

After my first read, I thought you had said this more than once, but i could actually only find it one time. Considering how long your posts are, I thought it was in there somewhere else but I just couldn't find it. I probably should have highlighted that fact in my initial case. Sorry about that.

All in all, I think some of my accusations against you boil down to bad timing, while others are truly matters of opinion. After this, you're lower on my list of suspects. Your style seems more clear and less antagonistic, which helps a lot.

LOL, I've neglected my other game again. If you don't hear from me for a few days, it's because I'm rereading my other game.

[cerebus3]

Explain how my reaction to going from one vote to four in over an hour is unreasoned.

Just for future reference, what is the requisite time I should wait before I vote someone for being scummy? Are you really saying that if I had waited say... 3 more hours, you would have accepted my vote?

There's no clear-cut answer. If I got caught fakeclaiming cop, for example, then waiting time between votes is irrelevant, but to be honest, you have to make a judgment call about it. The speed of the votes violated what I felt was acceptable given the circumstances.

That question was sarcastic... The viability of evidence does not change over time. evidence is just as valid 5 seconds apart and 5 days apart...

[Dean Harper]

Macavenger is taking over my modding duties tonight at 8PM. I would do a vote count, except it hasn't changed . Cya guys in two weeks, and be good for Mavavenger.

[forbiddanlight]

That question was sarcastic... The viability of evidence does not change over time. evidence is just as valid 5 seconds apart and 5 days apart...

Yes and no. I actually see where SC is coming from, since it felt like some of the votes on him were merely pressure, and to have those fly so quickly is definitely something that might cause panic in a newer player. I mean, skillit's case was decent, but still not air tight. SC shouldn't have been wagoned so easily, even if a few of his actions were scummy.

[Goatrevolt]

@Megatheory: I don't know how you see that as buddying at all. Your stances already agreed with much of what I was thinking (and had said in the thread already), and I was already voting for skillit at the time.

[Rage]

Yes and no. I actually see where SC is coming from, since it felt like some of the votes on him were merely pressure, and to have those fly so quickly is definitely something that might cause panic in a newer player. I mean, skillit's case was decent, but still not air tight. SC shouldn't have been wagoned so easily, even if a few of his actions were scummy.

Problem is, I don't think StrangerCoug is a newer player. He's in tons of games, and although I don't know much about

him

, this is my first game with him, I do think that the more games the better, because as both Town and Scum you get to know a lot more about players' playstyles and role-tells. But, frankly, I don't know why he would be acting the same way after all of the games he has been in, so perhaps after all that time it has ultimately come down to an excuse to act scummy on Day 1.

[Rage]

Huh? I'm not trying to get lynched, I'm trying to see who wants to bandwagon on me.

To what end? How is that pro-town at all?

There can only be so much scum in this game. My role is one that the Town can afford to lose on Day 1.

Oh, and, nice opportunistic FoSing, StrangerCoug.

[forbiddanlight]

Yes and no. I actually see where SC is coming from, since it felt like some of the votes on him were merely pressure, and to have those fly so quickly is definitely something that might cause panic in a newer player. I mean, skillit's case was decent, but still not air tight. SC shouldn't have been wagoned so easily, even if a few of his actions were scummy.

Problem is, I don't think StrangerCoug is a newer player. He's in tons of games, and although I don't know much about

him

, this is my first game with him, I do think that the more games the better, because as both Town and Scum you get to know a lot more about players' playstyles and role-tells. But, frankly, I don't know why he would be acting the same way after all of the games he has been in, so perhaps after all that time it has ultimately come down to an excuse to act scummy on Day 1.

It's POSSIBLE...but not something I really see as likely. I mean, the other games I played with him were recent, and this is his standard play.

[Goatrevolt]

Huh? I'm not trying to get lynched, I'm trying to see who wants to bandwagon on me.

To what end? How is that pro-town at all?

There can only be so much scum in this game. My role is one that the Town can afford to lose on Day 1.

Oh, and, nice opportunistic FoSing, StrangerCoug.

Nqah, that's still missing the point. My question is what do you expect to learn by having people waon you? Are you suggesting that if you act scummy only scum will wagon you? How do you differentiate between town/scum on your wagon?

[StrangerCoug]

Yes and no. I actually see where SC is coming from, since it felt like some of the votes on him were merely pressure, and to have those fly so quickly is definitely something that might cause panic in a newer player. I mean, skillit's case was decent, but still not air tight. SC shouldn't have been wagoned so easily, even if a few of his actions were scummy.

Problem is, I don't think StrangerCoug is a newer player. He's in tons of games, and although I don't know much about

him

, this is my first game with him, I do think that the more games the better, because as both Town and Scum you get to know a lot more about players' playstyles and role-tells. But, frankly, I don't know why he would be acting the same way after all of the games he has been in, so perhaps after all that time it has ultimately come down to an excuse to act scummy on Day 1.

A good part of this is right, and I don't call being allowed to moderate tomorrow being new. Give me enough free time and I cease to have a life xD

Oh, and, nice opportunistic FoSing, StrangerCoug.

What the hell? You ask people to vote you, I'm not comfortable with doing so and decide to FoS you instead, and you call me opportunistic? I don't follow your logic.

Unconfirm and unvote: alvinz95
Vote: Rage

This is lynch minus one. I'd say "claim or die", but I believe you claimed already.

[forbiddanlight]

Is it!? What I think it is!? Do I hear...a HAMMAH!? Sorry Sthar, hit me tomorrow, it's...HAMMAH TIEM!

unvote, VOTE:RAGE

!

(sorry, I've always wanted to do that)

[forbiddanlight]

This is lynch minus one. I'd say "claim or die", but I believe you claimed already.

He claimed vanilla basically. He will likely flip scum .

[Goatrevolt]

Seriously? Why rush it? I wasn't ready to end the day.

[Dean Harper]

Twilight fell on City Hall. The council members had come to an agreement. They alerted the guards. Chained and gagged, Rage was dragged out to the gallows to be hanged. He managed to spit out his gag and yelled repeatedly of his innocence.

As he was led up the gallows steps, Rage made one last cry, "You who have destroyed me are certainly going to be destroyed from within." Forbiddanlight yelled back, "That was corny, man!" Rage replied, "I know." And with that he was hanged. In his pocket, the remaining council members found an official badge belonging to a real council member. Perhaps the council should have listened to him after all.

Rage was a

Good Council Member.

It is now night one, all night choices are due to Macavenger by Saturday morning, by which time he will hopefully have modding capabilities. I will NOT lock the thread as of now, because Macavenger doesn't have the power to open it yet.

I EXPECT that NO ONE posts in thread until AFTER Macavenger lets you all know that he has modding capabilities.

[Macavenger]

As morning dawns, the council grimly files back into the meeting room, wondering what mischief had occurred during the night. Silently, you count as ten others enter the room... wait, would that make eleven counting yourself? It would! Everyone has returned to the meeting room.

No one died last night.

It is now Day 2. With 11 alive, 6 votes are needed to lynch.

[forbiddanlight]

Interesting. It might be we have inactive scum, or possibly a doctor/roleblocker something. This is interesting indeed. As for yesterday, I apologize that my zeal to hammer ended up screwing us for that day. I honestly have never gotten to hammer before and let that blind me. I hope today I can play better and be of more assistance. I want to turn to

vote:skillit

due to yesterdays reasons. This is subject to change based on responses to what I said in my summanalysis.