Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Clover Ebi]

Link to VC on this page.

Really like 865 from drusilla maybe cause it’s a post I can wrap my head around. Even if I haven’t played with their main It feels like taking experience from a scum game and trying to use it for merit but it’s not in a bad way where people sometimes say that they do x as scum so it’s likely y is scum.

I am very flattered that me struggling with this game has somehow made me Mornings top townread.

In 875 by beeboy I thought he brought up a point I wanna talk more about that being partner flips. It’s been a hot topic and I just want to know if people think it’s scummy to make them. I know I do them myself because I like to think ahead a lot of time, but should partner reads influence your main read on a slot? I don’t think so. Okay thank you for coming to my Clover talk.

What's so obvious about her? I haven't played with her before.

I feel like Lilith is very aggro and keeping up with her fire and conviction for the game. I’ve already stated why she’s an early game townread from before and I liked when I interacted with her. I don’t really see much of an agenda in her posting, plus I’m a sucker for things like “This is out of my scumrange” with such confidence!

Yeah, I don't see the logic behind this vote. Pressure for the sake of pressure, but you're not reading him as scum? Just seems like an easy out and a sheeping of Nahdia's read.

Huh? No, I am scumreading midway a bit and I wanted to see if people would join me but that doesn’t seem to be the case with such little time we have left. With the way mid is just playing and the way his content is going I don’t see much changing my mind and the longer he’s here the more unsettled I get, but with his meta I can understand why people don’t wanna vote him.

[Clover Ebi]

Tux/Star aren't scum together with there interactions and I wasn't expecting my 3/3 read to be right but it getting thrown in my face isn't that great. I would vote Nahdia over Skitter here but I will keep my vote on mid because atm the only things I see for reasons on why he's not voted is meta. I mean, of course we could leave him up to PRs in that case but between who's around for day 2 that I think could get townier and change my mind it's Nahdia over mid.

[Dunnstral]

I think Midway's general progression on me has looked really bad, and I don't think I'm biased

[Starbuck]

There's a lot of assumption from you regarding this and I don't like it.

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

oh it gets worse
@starbuck i think 941 is a townie post. i dont understand what part of it prompted you to vote him

I wanted to see his reaction. I'm still not a fan, but he isn't the elimination today.

[Hectic]

¶

Votecount 1.18

[4] Nahdia:

skitter, Morning Tweet, beeboy, Tuxedo Mask

[3] skitter30:

Kanna, Nahdia, Raven Branwen

[2] midwaybear:

Dunnstral, Clover Ebi

[1] Dunnstral:

midwaybear

[1] Tuxedo Mask:

Starbuck

[2] Not Voting:

drusilla, lilith2013

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to throw someone down the well.
The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 09:18:09).
V/LA section. Joint mod iso.

[Starbuck]

Are you reading what I'm saying?

I just finished a hefty catch-up. I'm bound to mix something up.

Beeboy said hi on page 2. But the page is irrelevant, what's relevant is his follow up on page 3 where hs says he's upset on no one said hi back. Meaning Beeboy was present, and reading the thread. At least enough to see no one responded to his intro. Now what that means, I don't know, but it IS what happened. Page 4 is when Beeboy finally got involved in the discussion.

Okay, he still got into it within an hour of the thread opening and I think you're being unfair when you decided to pick apart his entrance and not really touch on anything else. It's a pointed attack and it's not a good look. Maybe it's because you're a newer player that you picked such an awful thing to case somebody on, especially because your late entry into the game makes it easy for you to pick that angle.

I'm not making any assumptions because it was all there on the page. Beeboy was posting during the Dunnstral discussion and reading close enough to see people weren't responding to him. If there is something else I am missing please let me know, because I really have no clue what you're talking about.

I think you're assuming beeboy's motives. This whole thread has been moving fast and for this, I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt. I can totally understand his frustration when being pushed for something so inane. Your willingness to not admit that your push was weak, and is still weak, is concerning.

[Starbuck]

@Kanna, Nahdia, and Raven, why are you voting Skitter? It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.

i feel like it's been overexplained at this point, were you following our interactions? basically, i felt like skitter's partner push was agenda-y and there were parts of it that didn't add up which made me think it could be faked. also, raven/nahdia both didn't look good at the time, which would make sense for scum motivation.

This is a perfect summation. I had asked for this, too.

What's wrong with that though? Can she not condense and address all of her thoughts in one post? You're seemingly going after her because you don't like the way she formats.

i mean tbf this is partially why you're shading lilith ...

There's a difference between the way Raven was formatting what she said within one or two posts and consistent flooding of the thread. I wanted to bring it up because it seems unfair to chastise Raven when she just seemed to do a summation of her thoughts. I appreciate her courtesy to the rest of everyone who is playing and I could easily read her thought process. I didn't think it was fair to say to her "well, you don't post in a way that I like, so I'll automatically read you as scum" (or something to that effect). I don't care for backing her into a corner like that.

It's also concerning, given that you're doing it right behind lilith, that you'd point this out. I have felt a sort of tag-team between you and lilith since I started reading, but I was thinking it was because you both might have known each other for a while on site. So I'm trying to separate that from gameplay. However, there's a point when it's concerning that one or two voices seem to be constant. Either you're doing it just because you're responding or you're doing it to purposefully drown everyone else out.

Is the Tuxedo/Starbuck timestamp thing important? when i was skimming earlier i feel like i read the word "timestamp" get brought up like 500 times and i worry that it might be a huge argument over very little

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

Okay I think that Tuxedo failing to consider timestamps = He wanted to throw shade quick is a bit of a reach. Although i suppose you're just saying it's a possibility, which is fair

I agree that his entrance was very odd and disjointed with the thread, and I think he did make it quick without checking over it too hard. I think you're on the right track there -- I interpreted it as scummy then but since i've been getting townpinged by Tux. It's hard to explain, i sort of feel like he's finding it difficult to get into the game -- which could certainly be a sign of scum but also reminds me of myself as town when i dont have the time/will to read through everything perfectly

Not for today, it was just something that I wanted to bring up in regards to Tux vs beeboy. I just think it's rich to get all irate at beeboy's entrance, when the thread was open for an hour, when you're coming in for the first time nearly 8 hours later. It feels like Tux wanted to make a bold statement with his late entry to the thread. He did, but it wasn't a good one because I don't know how you shade someone's entrance when you're entering the game way later than them. Simply, I'm not sure if it points to Tux's noobishness as a player or a bad scum case. Time will tell.

I also don't think failing to consider timestamps = throwing shade real fast. I think he wanted to throw shade real fast and didn't consider how long the game had been open when beeboy posted. The lack of attention to detail there is what bothers me. I think he was looking for an easy way to enter the thread and deliver on something given that he was so late to the game.

[Starbuck]

UNVOTE: Tuxedo Mask

[lilith2013]

prodging, will try to read after work today

[skitter30]

i mean, im not pushing midway. im looking for other places we could coalesce besides myself. same reason i spent some time reading drusilla. forgive me for the survival mode, but....

i mean it's an easy place to try to get people to coalesce on ... but fair wrt survival mode

and i think the meta is valid - it worked for me last time so

-

i think kanna is probably town but i disagree with most of her takes

-

Tux/Star aren't scum together with there interactions and

i agree with this ^

-

Okay, he still got into it within an hour of the thread opening and I think you're being unfair when you decided to pick apart his entrance and not really touch on anything else. It's a pointed attack and it's not a good look. Maybe it's because you're a newer player that you picked such an awful thing to case somebody on, especially because your late entry into the game makes it easy for you to pick that angle.

i really don't think tux's approach to beeboy was unfair or unreasonable given that beeboy at taht point indicated that he was reading the game (he knew that nobody had responded to his 'hi' post). i'm not sure i agree with his take, but i believe it's a real one that he actually believes

do you think he's scummy for taking this approach? do you think he's making it up? because unless the answer is 'yes' i'm not sure what you're trying to get out of this engagement

-

It's also concerning, given that you're doing it right behind lilith, that you'd point this out. I have felt a sort of tag-team between you and lilith since I started reading, but I was thinking it was because you both might have known each other for a while on site. So I'm trying to separate that from gameplay. However, there's a point when it's concerning that one or two voices seem to be constant. Either you're doing it just because you're responding or you're doing it to purposefully drown everyone else out.

a) i disagree that i'm flooding the thread (i would argue even that i'm toned down a bit in comparison to how i usually play, and i'm trying to do so further with posts like these instead of 6 multiposts since you've stated that it bothers you repeatedly)
b) i feel like i have a good sense for what lilith's scumgame is and since i think she's town here i want to work with her

[Raven Branwen]

I wasn’t feeling well yesterday. @Star: re: Skittter, I think Kanna explained things fairly well. Re: Tux, I don’t know if it’s newbishness or whatever but it’s kind of annoying that he keeps shading opinions that differ from his. Ie: Nahdia and I didn’t like Skitter’s push on us. Ergo, we must be working together, eventhough Kanna expressed the same thoughts and is also voting Skitter but then there was also the ridiculous scumslip read on Lillith thinking it’s likely there’s two scum in a micro etc.

With regard to the posting style thing, I agree it was unfair for Lillith to jump on me for that because it is a different posting style than the one she prefers. However, I don’t view her hyper posting nor to a lesser extent Skitter’s as AI.

I think that Lillith claiming however that her hyper posting is “obvtown” is equally ridiculous. I tend to not put much stock into activity reads in general unless a particular poster has a clear AI activity meta.

I’m also a bit concerned about the confidence Skitter seems to have on certain slots like Drusilla’s and some others for example. @Skittter, do you have meta on Drusilla. Why are you so confident she’s town?

Also Skitter, you seemed to change your read on me when you claimed to recognize my main. While I thought that was good, because it pointed away from you confibiasing me, you never explained how this affected your read on me. Is the reason you haven’t yet responded to my question regarding that, because you don’t think you can answer it without outing me? What about thinking you recognizing my main made you flip your read on me? If you can give some reasoning on that, it would help.

MT is growing on me. I like that she’s revaluating her stances and her explanation of those stances doesn’t feel agenda-y to me. While I was initially suspicious of beeyboy’s voting Nahdia when he preferred Drusilla. I felt his explanation on that looked townie.

Dunn needs to do more. I’m still a hard null on that slot although his lower activity might be possibly town indicative for him. @Dunn, besides MWB, do you have any other reads and why has your activity seemed to have fallen off since the game started?

Oh and @Kanna, who tf is Shiki? I’m guessing Drusilla, since she is the only one who has actually shaded you?

Anyway, my not interested in voting today list now includes MT and beeyboy as well. I did like Tux’s take on Nahdia’s “defeatest” attitude and both her frustration and fight read townie to me.

@Skittter, other than Nahdia, who do you think is scum? I’m not understanding your suspicions on Star.

[drusilla]

you just don't recognize me giving Nahdia space because we are friends

feels like beeboy doth protest too much. giving nahdia space isn't part of my read nor was it something i ever mentioned?

I don't see how this early you can be making partner associations

Bleh Drusilla's reads just don't feel right to me. I just don't see how a reasonable individual just keeps pairing people off, rather then just targeting me as an individual.

Maybe she just has this insane bias against the mannerism of my posting which is why she paired me off with both Kanna and Nahdia since she has having trouble vocalizing a read in another way?

the association with nahdia came after i explained my scumread of you. the partner associations are due to me being asked to elaborate as to why i thought post 684 was noteworthy here:

it is not lost on me that this post was about beeboy.

and what would you say this tells you?

i made a similar observation here:

beeboy can be town for now(not really sure why)

gutscum on midway but i couldn't possibly quantify why at this time

possibly noteworthy.

and had kanna asked me what this tells me i would have said it was + partner equity for midwaybear and skitter. that does not mean that i think they are definitely partners or that they are only scum with eachother, but that those posts make it more likely than it would otherwise be to me. i think you are focusing on the partner associations and implying that the only way that i am town is if i am an unreasonable person or biased against you to discredit me.

MT just went super tryhard, so that's town right?

yep.

but i dont like how she seems to just use me being scum as a baseline assumption without, justifying it? like, to read beeboy or kanna as partners.

i was asked to explain why i thought your post was noteworthy. outside of it i think you are more likely to be town than either beeboy or kanna as i've previously indicated.

I also don't see much momentum heading towards Drusilla so I moved my vote if you want my particular tactical reason. If I ever see votes move onto Drusilla that makes them viable I will move onto them.

ah, so now you are openly doing what i thought you were doing earlier in a clandestine manner with regards to feeling out support for pressuring me.

do you really think this read is reliable? although, the fact that you did bring up your own game with this makes me feel like you prepared it as backup if this conversation got to this stage

i think that it is, yes. it is very hard to research because there is no way to search for instances of it beyond reading game after game after game and it isn't something i had thought to look for until gacha mafia. i brought up my own game because i was finding it difficult to explain the open/closed question thing otherwise and that is the post it goes back to.

i don't see any buddying or distancing from skitter in the early game events surrounding her and dunnstral and i don't think that is an opportunity scum!skitter would miss with the game focused on her and she did not accept a potential reason for townreading her when given the option. that seems to far outweigh her talking nicely about lilith/beeboy/me and pointing out potential associatives even if you think those associatives are weak. so it felt like you were working toward the conclusion 'skitter is mafia', not evaluating her.

what's your experience with skitter? how familiar are you with her play? do you think i should have picked up on this and townread her? i don't understand your conclusion at all

other than you, i am the most familiar with skitter from this playerlist. we previously played together in newbie 1992 and mystery box of silver gnine and i have read many of her games outside of that. her play in jazz mafia is one of the reasons i joined the site. i do not think you would have had to have individually picked up on what i did in order to townread her because you asked me to elaborate on my read of skitter, a read you said you then accepted, so i would have expected you to weigh the information i presented against the information that was informing your read of skitter which you had not yet presented.

yes? i think i'm playing pretty normally, although thinking back, i did post a readlist which i don't normally do which i feel like most of this is based on. what do you think if i told you i just felt like posting one this time?

it isn't simply that you posted a readslist - you had done this at a similar point in one of your newbie games as well - but that the readslist this game contained a poe which you then solely worked from, which i do not believe is pretty normal or even something you've ever done before, and in general creating a limited subset to scumhunt within is scum indicative. maybe i am explaining this very poorly (since morning tweet also seemed to think the 'mechanical' read was based solely on the readslist) so i will try again:

you present a readslist. at the bottom of this readslist is a five person poe: skitter, lilith, raven branwen, nahdia, me.
you then ask me to elaborate on my read of skitter and the open question previously discussed.
you then ask nahdia about their read of beeboy (and beeboy about something nahdia pointed out in the same post) and lilith why she says she is out of her scumrange.
you then ask skitter a couple questions and respond to raven branwen asking you to elaborate on your readlist.
you then say you like raven branwen and vote skitter.

this sort of 'mechanical' 'following a checklist' (sorry i really don't know how to else to describe it. like you thought of where you were going, drew a map to get there, and followed it.) seems very scummy to me.

i do not have one unified theory but rather various thoughts to weigh against eachother. post 622 is + partner equity for you/beeboy because it stands out from your other elaborations. and if beeboy and nahdia are partners, it makes sense for nahdia to say you are town because of your townread of beeboy because then you are more likely to defend him in this situation as well. and if you and nahdia are partners, it makes sense for nahdia to say you are town because of your townread of beeboy because then beeboy is more likely to defend you. it doesn't seem all that likely that all three of you are mafia, but it seems extremely coincidental that nahdia's response to my scumread of you and beeboy was to say you are town because of your townread of beeboy, especially since that didn't seem like an excessively towny post to me.

this could be me being dumb but i still don't know why that means anything. in my question, i wanted you to explain what your theory was when you said it "stood out" - do you think in this situation all three of us are mafia? one? two? and why do you think the actions taken would make sense in that situation?

post 622 stands out because you presented it separately from your other elaborations:

clover is towny because .., morning/votato/tux are towny because .., dunnstral/clover/midway are towny because .., everyone else i haven't found a reason to townread.
next post: oh i forgot beeboy. beeboy is town because ...

so the most memorable of your reads is naturally beeboy is town.

it seems unlikely to me that all three of you are mafia, as i said in the post you quoted. it is most likely that only one of you are mafia, but quite possible that two of you are as well. i also explained why the actions taken would make sense in the post you quoted.

as i tried to explain to beeboy, it means something because nahdia's post seems unlikely to happen organically. i said beeboy and you are scummy. nahdia then said you are towny because of your townread of beeboy. maybe it doesn't make sense to ask you, but does 622 feel super towny to you? like if you had to pick one of your posts to say this is why i'm town so far would that have been the one? it seems more chosen because of the surrounding events than a real read to me.

that post by nahdia seems so unlikely to just happen to happen to me. like i know going down this road has caused me problems before but if you said skitter and i were mafia right now, and nahdia replied that she thought skitter was towny for her townread of me, what would you think?

by "going down this road," i'm assuming you mean conspiracy theories, right? and if so, why are you choosing to go down this road?

from memory, i think you stepped away from these and focused on more grounded theories for scumhunting - would you agree?

i think you are (potentially intentionally) conflating two somewhat related but disconnected things, at least in my mind. the 'conspiracy theories' (example: viewtopic.php?p=11740253#p11740253 ) are something i have stepped away from for the most part. you know why i stopped playing on team rocket queen (as i explained it to your hydra in hungarian music 2) and the 'conspiracy theories' create the same associations with me. i still chase the thoughts that would lead me there (this quote from the opening flavour:

You see, people have been dropping dead like it's the Black Death all over again.

paired with this image from shortly thereafter:

The eccentric man wielding the Top Hat - which you must admit is quite magnificent - leads you through the streets of Lunacy. They are barren and there is not a person in sight.

Spoiler:

which leads to 'the plague days' when reverse image searched makes it pretty unlikely that the first reference was a turn of phrase and thus rather likely that there is some sort of infection-related mechanic)

but i no longer present these in the same way because of the effect they have on the game. like 'town if she derails the game' is undesirable to me.

by 'going down this road' i simply meant noting what seems like a very unlikely coincidence. i have a somewhat shaky trackrecord with regards to this, as micro blitz iii or the aforementioned hungarian music would show, but if i believed more in myself and my thoughts in mystery box of silver gnine (that it was very unlikely that bugspray would have wholly invented the knife; which i noted but did not push extensively) town might have won. i was saying i am aware of the mistakes i have previously made in the realm of strange coincidences but even having considered that this still stands out to me.

went through shiki's meta and i think i'm scumleaning her now. as town, she has more good faith takes and is more at the forefront of the game, while as scum, she does more background solving. she's also a bit agenda-y in pushing someone with reasons that are ok, but not the most *likely* (like doctorpepper in that gacha game). i feel like she might be doing that to me now actually; if she has to come up with conspiracy style reasoning for a scumread + draw a connections, she might not believe in it. it's like she saw the opportunity first and made a case around that, i think

also, i think i should be able to understand more of these theories if it came from a good place. in CoC, i remember i didn't mindmeld on anything as well. shiki, are you trying to mislynch me? it kinda hurts...

i can think of a handful of games i was at the forefront of as town and just as many if not more that i was not. the 'conspiracy style reasoning' was based on a thought i had about a single post made by nahdia that you asked me to elaborate on, not the basis for my scumread, as it came after.

i think you know i'm not. even this feels manipulative because you know how much i dislike upsetting people by incorrectly scumreading them (most notably datisi is newbie 1992, morning tweet in mystery box hate).

[Nahdia]

to answer tuxedo's earlier question on him vs starbuck, i dont really get a lot from it either way. the thought process tux lays out makes sense even if i dont buy into all of it, and starbuck's frustration meanwhile seems genuine. the one thing that read iffy to me is starbuck voting tux and then later calling it a reaction test. skitter caught that too which, bleh! we're getting to the end of the day, as she acknowledges, so it'd be cool if she could actually take some stances on people who might be today's elimination.

[skitter30]

I’m also a bit concerned about the confidence Skitter seems to have on certain slots like Drusilla’s and some others for example. @Skittter, do you have meta on Drusilla. Why are you so confident she’s town?

Also Skitter, you seemed to change your read on me when you claimed to recognize my main. While I thought that was good, because it pointed away from you confibiasing me, you never explained how this affected your read on me. Is the reason you haven’t yet responded to my question regarding that, because you don’t think you can answer it without outing me? What about thinking you recognizing my main made you flip your read on me? If you can give some reasoning on that, it would help.

i have like two games with dru (albeit on other accounts). i already said this but i don't know why i so confidentally think she's town ... i just kinda do? like she just feels townie to me

wrt my read on you, i think that you/nahdia contains one wolf, and it hink it's more likely nahdia. i think you're probably in your town meta

[skitter30]

to answer tuxedo's earlier question on him vs starbuck, i dont really get a lot from it either way. the thought process tux lays out makes sense even if i dont buy into all of it, and starbuck's frustration meanwhile seems genuine. the one thing that read iffy to me is starbuck voting tux and then later calling it a reaction test. skitter caught that too which, bleh! we're getting to the end of the day, as she acknowledges, so it'd be cool if she could actually take some stances on people who might be today's elimination.

i dislike starbuck's push here and would potentially be open to voting her
i'm also not sure that you aren't going to be today's vote.

like i would compromise on a few other people at deadline (star, dunn) but i'm still hoping it'll be you

[Nahdia]

skitter your "there is one wolf in raven/nahdia" read is feeling more and more abstract. like, if i flipped town, would you starting trying to push raven?

[skitter30]

i would reassess there, yeah

[Nahdia]

what about my being town makes raven scummy?

[skitter30]

the fact that you don't feel tvt to me

[Nahdia]

skitter your "there is one wolf in raven/nahdia" read is feeling more and more abstract.

[skitter30]

idk what to say. that's just how i form reads sometimes, and that's how your pair feels to me rn

[Nahdia]

you weren't forming reads like that in BotC!

like, when you were reading Raven and I as partners (for reasons I refuted and you accepted), fine. but now to hold onto "there's 1 scum i nthe two of you" just looks to me like you're lining up lynches. WHY is raven scum if im town? we don't feel tvt to you if you're scumreading me, obviously. but if it turns out im town and your read was therefore wrong, why should that mean you start aiming for raven?

[Nahdia]

realtalk i want people to weigh in on this. skitter's agenda is v evident in what i just laid out. i dont want to find another wagon, i want this. i will kick and scream if i must.

[lilith2013]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

[lilith2013]

I don’t necessarily agree with skitter that it’s svt though