Mini 2150 - Anime SeiyuU-Pick [SHOW'S OVER!]

[mastina]

VOTE: Deimos27
Gut

Your gut is very very wrong; Deimos is town. Sadly, busy, unfortunately so. Deimos's V/LA is unfortunate and I have a bad feeling Deimos might end up being replacement #10 due to said V/LA and lack of ability to be here more readily. But I assure you, Deimos is very much town in spite of the V/LA and were that V/LA absent this would become far more readily apparent.

That being said--the Battle Mage replacement does make me want to do this:
VOTE: Panzerjager
At least for now. I'll be doing another readslist in part for my own benefit to break down the slots in the game and my thoughts on them, to air things out.

[beeboy]

So to address the good part of the post.

You tunnel in on the fact that reads being stagnant isn't a scum tell for you.

But that wasn't my point, my point was that your post towards Titus doesn't make sense coming from someone with stagnant reads. Like you are doing X while thinking Y which makes you scum.
And your response is, "Doing X isn't a scum tell". Sure you wouldn't be wrong but I am not arguing that.

[mastina]

I don't want to seem dismissive but your post in itself also is so I don't particularly feel bad.

My post is showing how you are factually wrong, so yes, your dismissal of it is bad because it's demonstrating that I am right.

I have given my proof--where's yours? You're not giving it because the facts don't line up with your argument; they line up with mine because I am in the right here.

[mastina]

But that wasn't my point, my point was that your post towards Titus doesn't make sense coming from someone with stagnant reads.

And I countered that point by showing why it's not so.

[beeboy]

But that wasn't my point, my point was that your post towards Titus doesn't make sense coming from someone with stagnant reads.

And I countered that point by showing why it's not so.

I don't believe a reasonable town player can sit in a game for 2 weeks being unhappy with the game state.
And go "A game can be solved in the first page"
Then the game isn't shit.

[beeboy]

Things I concede if you thought I argued it.

-> I could give a shit about the mason fake claim if I felt like diving 25 games. And someone else in my spot probably would.
-> Stagnant reads can come from town

Things I won't concede.

-> People who are totally happy with their read lists the literal entire game don't sit around complaining a game is devoid of content.


Your counter to the last one is you basically said I was wrong.
So thanks but if I believed that I wouldn't be voting you.

[beeboy]

I don't have the time to dive into a 1v1. I think your claim I am not reading your ISO or you addressed everything is objectively wrong. Unless "u wrong hehe I can do that" counts as disproving my read.
I'll come back to this if the read magically picks up steam today.

I doubt you are bussing battle mage and that's likely todays lynch anyway.
If he is scum then, go you.
If he is town then, getting proper support will be easy.

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox/MariaR
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul/JacksonVirgo
popopopopopopo/Tipsy

TrueSoulEnergy/Donkey Kong


Battle Mage/jks
Shiro
Sujimichi/Titus

Tuxedo Mask/catboi

TheThirteenthJT/beeboy

Panzer

This is quickly shaping up to be a game where everyone has a reason to be town (well, almost everyone), but three people by necessity must not be.

Deimos is locktown here for good reason. While Deimos's later contributions to the game may be lackluster, this is easily explained by the fact that Deimos is V/LA currently and is struggling to keep up with the game now. If you look at Deimos's earlier content, it is self-evident that when Deimos isn't busy, when Deimos isn't V/LA, he's plain and simply, town. Period.


I maintain my case for Panther and Fox, via accidental mod circumstances, being accidentally conftown, because again: Panther and Fox were having trouble posting when the game went live. They had confirmed, but were unable to post in the game thread. The mod was made aware of this only after D1 had started. The mod being made aware of this only after D1 started indicates that Panther and Fox were unaware there'd be an issue posting prior to D1 starting. The presence of the issue therefore indicates that Panther and Fox would have no prior warning of this.

This is an unintentional accidental townconfirm because if Panther and Fox were scum, they would have access to a scum PT. PTs in this game were open during the pregame, before D1 started. Because PTs were open during the pregame, before D1 started, if Panther and Fox were scum, and they had trouble posting, they would've been unable to post to the scum PT. And thus they would've told the mod about this, and the mod would've announced it sooner. But because of the timing of the mod announcement, Panther and Fox were, accidentally mod-spewed as conftown.

Even lacking this--and I feel like it should not be discarded--their content this game was clearly town and MariaR just radiates obvtown here.


HoldenGolden was clearly town with everything he did and nothing Starbuck has done since then has diminished that, to the contrary strengthening that townread.


Mikul I maintain was approaching things from a town angle and I disagree with jks's analysis stating that Mikul wasn't contributing, the thoughts were there and the contribution present and more than that I find the replacement (while annoying) to still be insanely town with their thought progression.


popo was a strong town gutvibe even from so little content and Tipsy has certainly vindicated that by just being insanely town overall.


So those are my locktowns--my locktowns will not be budging at all because they are locked in at town because they are town, period, pure and simple, town.

From there, we go into what in the OPL league of legends professional play likes to call "The Mess".


TSE I leaned town on slightly, but it was not much of a townread. DK by and large being a meme alt memeing makes for a difficult read, but there

is

content there. Notably, DK has stated a townread on me, the Holden slot (Starbuck), and a scumread on the Tuxedo slot (catboi), and has been interacting with people and reaching out to them in a way that I feel is town-indicative, but due to them being an alt that is memeing, it's hard to get a lock on if this is town-indicative for sure or not. So I lean town there, but I'm not gonna locktown the slot from it.


You might notice that jks has skyrocketed in the readslist from near-dead-bottom to way up high, which I feel is justified. I do not think anything Battle Mage did was town at all. Battle Mage's content felt faked and forced. I made my case on Battle Mage fairly clearly here and I maintain its validity, that most of the defense of his slot is along the lines of, "This reminds me of something I did when new", "This is something Battle Mage always does", and blind VCA not taking into account the gamestate which led to that votecount when this game is unusual and unusualness usually breeds inaccuracies in blind VCA because VCA relies on typical patterns and this game is atypical.

So why the skyrocket upward?

Because contrary to what has been said about my stances, yes I do in fact have reasonable doubts to be presented. I haven't played with Battle Mage in years, and even when I last saw him I wasn't intimately familiar with him. The people who said "This is how Battle Mage always is" had recently played with him; I have not. They very well are probably more informed about his habits than I am. And while I maintain that my point about him being a competent scum player remains (thus, don't buy defending him on the basis of "BM isn't good at scum"), my points about his content being forced and fake are based off of traits that I fully admit

could

in fact be personality traits that don't condemn him.

I thought that they still indicated he was scum in spite of that because of what he was doing, but yes. jks's contributions were enough for me to singlehandedly call that into question and more or less not entirely reverse but mostly reverse that read. jks reached out to me, the largest attacker of their slot. jks gave good reads with good analysis and while I don't agree with them, their thoughts and views actually look sincere to me. Could it come from scum? Yes, but it looks like it comes from town.

Overall, this places the slot at nulltown (contrast with DK who is a townread proper even if a weaker one), the null slot most likely to be town.


I feel like my thoughts on Shiro are well-documented enough, but to briefly reiterate; I do like what Shiro's done this game in spite of me not exactly knowing how to read Shiro anymore. Overall, in the null slots, the slot is the representation of dead null.


Sujimichi did nothing town-indicative and believe it or not, I haven't gotten any true townvibes from Titus. I'm giving her some benefit of the doubt, here, and notably--I've been treating her as if she's town anyway in spite of not having a townread on her. Her reachouts to some players are something that objectively should indicate she's more likely to be town,

but

, something gut-wise is holding me back from townbinning her. In my gut, I haven't felt like anything she's done is actually town-indicative. I recognize that there are things that objectively should make her more likely town, namely the reachouts, but subjectively I don't feel she's done anything town.

It should be noted though that in spite of that gut feeling that she hasn't done anything town, I also don't get any vibes, objectively or subjectively, that anything she's done indicates she's scum. While of the null slots I feel that if any of them were scum she'd be the most likely, in spite of that view, I notably do NOT scumread her, at all. If my 3p lylo lynch choices were Shiro jks Titus right now I'd vote Titus, but that's literally the only situation where I would, and I feel giving more time will help me air out thoughts on the slot there more.


catboi's contributions have been far more reasonable than their predecessor, in line with how jks is an improvement in content over Battle Mage. I've liked a lot of the thoughts that have come from catboi, but in spite of liking them, none of them have made me actually think catboi is town. I think I've made it clear, catboi's contributions have made me doubt the scumread on the slot (contrary to beeboy's narrative, yes, there is proof that I have in fact doubted that read), but this doubt has never been "I think this slot might actually be town for this", so much as it is, "I'm having second thoughts about a scumread here".

I do feel that Tuxedo Masks's content here was more likely to come from scum than town and catboi's content, while looking good, hasn't actually felt truly town. There's enough to doubt a scumread on the slot, but there's nothing to make me think the slot is town, if that makes sense. So overall, the slot's loosely, "lean scum".


The Thirteenth JT's been a rollercoaster of a slot. I initially thought newbscum. Then with later thoughts, I thought they showed genuine thought process. But just before the replace-out, I was again beginning to doubt this reversal into a townread. Since then, with beeboy's replacement into the game, nothing beeboy's done has looked or felt town to me and the continued misrep of my stances and attempted strawmanning of them is suspect. That said, is this a lockscum read? No, not even remotely. It's a weak-scumread.


The only strong scumread I have is Panzer, because I don't believe the 3p claim, he literally claimed my auction power as my own, and all of his contributions to the game have felt slimey. His actions just feel like they're scum coasting by and cruising, taking advantage of the fairly stagnant gamestate to just cruise by.


I also realize that I no longer truly have a coherent scumteam. Battle Mage and Panzer felt like scumbuddies with scum-scum interactions, but if Battle Mage's slot is town as jks made me think, then that falls apart. catboi and Panzer don't exactly fit as a scumteam together, either. So this is far from a locked-down easy callout of a three-man scumteam.

I'm positive that my locktown are actually lockdown. I refuse to reevaluate any of the reads on those slots because I am absolutely convinced that they are town and nothing will shake that conviction.

But beyond that, my thoughts are more or less, "any of these slots could be scum", with all of them having reason to be town but three of them necessarily being scum. My reads are very much individual reads right now rather than scumteam composition reads, and I feel like the best way to get clarity there would be to get a few flips.

[mastina]

I don't believe a reasonable town player can sit in a game for 2 weeks being unhappy with the game state.

Sure but I never was unhappy with the gamestate and said as much.

I have said the gamestate was stagnant.

Did I ever once say that I was unhappy with it in spite of the stagnation?

No. I said that the game being stagnant was a contributing factor to the wagons. I never once said that the stagnation meant the town was in a bad spot. That's something you're saying I said but I never said it.

Then the game isn't shit.

It sure isn't! And I never said it was.

-> People who are totally happy with their read lists the literal entire game don't sit around complaining a game is devoid of content.

Except I never complained about the game being devoid in content.

I stated it was.

I did not complain about it.

I made a statement that I feel is true.

I never once said that the statement was about a thing I was unhappy about.

I am perfectly content with a stagnant game if the stagnation of the game is something I feel does not benefit the scum--and I felt it did not benefit the scum.

Now granted.

The jks replacement does throw my reads into a state of slight disarray. If Battle Mage is scum, then the game makes perfect sense and the town is in a good place, the scumteam would be Panzer BM and then probably either your slot or Titus as the third, because of Titus's BM defense, Panzer's BM defense, and your chainsaw defense of BM by attacking his main attacker (me). So in a BM-scum world, I would still be content with the game as-is.

But since I'm currently heavily in doubt of BM having been scum and even lean towards him not being scum due to jks singlehandedly throwing my assumption into doubt, that necessarily means that if BM is town as I'm beginning to suspect, that I by necessity can't be happy with that gamestate.

So as of

now

, as of

today

, I need the game to progress because if BM is town then the game needs to progress for me to find the actual scumteam.

But as of yesterday, I did not need the game to progress because if BM is scum then the scumteam was obvious to a certain extent, limited to being within a specific set of more or less four players. (BM-scum makes Shiro-scum and to a lesser extent, catboi-scum less likely due to both BM and Panzer applying pressure to catboi.)

tl;dr: with BM as scum, this game was on lock with an obvious solve that only had a few unknown variables. Stagnant game's no problem.
With BM not as scum (which I'm now thinking), the game is in a state of disarray with no clear answer, and a stagnant game IS a problem because the game needs to progress to find a new solve.

[beeboy]

I feel like you wouldn't think the game hasn't progressed if you are perfectly fine with your POE.

Well tough because I do and your thought is wrong--like I said, either delusion or lying. Because yes I am perfectly fine with my POE in spite of not thinking the game has progressed.

Your counter to the last one is you basically said I was wrong.
So thanks but if I believed that I wouldn't be voting you.

continued misrep of my stances and attempted strawmanning of them is suspect

[beeboy]

Except I never complained about the game being devoid in content.

I stated it was.

I did not complain about it.

I made a statement that I feel is true.

I never once said that the statement was about a thing I was unhappy about.

I am perfectly content with a stagnant game if the stagnation of the game is something I feel does not benefit the scum--and I felt it did not benefit the scum.

Now granted.

This feels like the last few posts where you are putting too much thought into the word complaint while ignoring the larger point.
This isn't helping either of us.


I am trying to decide if you re-evaling BM is in response to me saying his town flip literally bury's you and you realizing that. Or if it's the re-eval on your bottom 3 I've been waiting the literal entire game for because you realized you should be more careful. First one is scum, 2nd one is town yet the reactions look near the same so I need time to figure that out.

Which says a lot about this exchange that the most alignment indicative thing is completely unrelated to our exchange lol. Although I guess that could say something about the value of engaging me as a player.

[beeboy]

Also sorry I reread my first posts to see why you reacted to it the way you did. Because I am trying to figure out if you are addressing everything to seem town or because my main point is abstract enough it's hard to argue against.

I posted in direct response to your post to Titus but it wasn't clear that my entire read hinged on that post. I kind of just read that post and went "well mastina is scum can we kill her". And explained as our 1v1 went on.

Which I guess would rationalize why you spent so much time addressing literally everything since my main point wasn't clear at all.
But I also want you to know my main point hasn't actually evolved or changed throughout the course of this 1v1.

I am fine giving you space over the course of today, I don't know if I'd just lynch PJ he hasn't done anything I've hated.
But I am not sure who I particularly hate.

[beeboy]

I think it's fair you think I am misreping you or raising goal posts. (You didn't use the 2nd one as wording but I am trying to rationalize your posts)

But I also think it's kinda crazy to say I am delusional for thinking you are scum especially relative to what you are posting? Also I assume you know I am a player that town reads people for 1 off moments that seem town to me rather then body of works reads. And if you are obvious town, it's due to a body of works read. Sorry I only took the lazy part out of the school of Ellibereth not the high effort one

[Titus]

Deimos is locktown here for good reason. While Deimos's later contributions to the game may be lackluster, this is easily explained by the fact that Deimos is V/LA currently and is struggling to keep up with the game now. If you look at Deimos's earlier content, it is self-evident that when Deimos isn't busy, when Deimos isn't V/LA, he's plain and simply, town. Period.

Yeah we're disagreeing here. I haven't read the early game but this is just handwaiving of Deimos's recent play as real life issues alone. Anyone can start out strong then faulter. Talk to me here.

[Titus]

Your gut is very very wrong; Deimos is town. Sadly, busy, unfortunately so. Deimos's V/LA is unfortunate and I have a bad feeling Deimos might end up being replacement #10 due to said V/LA and lack of ability to be here more readily. But I assure you, Deimos is very much town in spite of the V/LA and were that V/LA absent this would become far more readily apparent.

Deimos is not VLA and seems to be keeping up just fine.

[Titus]

So to address the good part of the post.

You tunnel in on the fact that reads being stagnant isn't a scum tell for you.

But that wasn't my point, my point was that your

post towards Titus doesn't make sense coming from someone with stagnant reads

. Like you are doing X while thinking Y which makes you scum.
And your response is, "Doing X isn't a scum tell". Sure you wouldn't be wrong but I am not arguing that.

I'd like you to elaborate on the underlined and on your Deimos read.

[beeboy]

The post towards you felt like someone talking to someone who they believed was a town slot.
And also wanted a fresh pair of eyes and a perspective on the game.

But Mastina had the same bottom 3 the entire game so I wasn't getting the vibe she was putting in the effort to re-eval.

I'll be honest I have no read much of the game, but my reaction to Deimos is "why is this guy a global town read" but I wasn't in the mood to contest it.


I am busy tonight like I said previously but I can ISO him tomorrow (Irl not in game)

[PJ.]

can we just vote out mastina? thanks

[Titus]

can we just vote out mastina? thanks

Why?

[PJ.]

We are never going to be able to move on to constructive things while she is in this game. Every single post is a self-meta defense of her shit play or a death tunnel on whomever doesn't like her. It's counterproductive and anti-town and very least we should prove the Loved bit of her claim if she's going to be this fucking annoying. Is she town? probably? Has she ever played like it? no. I'm putting this game on the super backburner if she is gonna be around after Day 1.

People that are actually probably scum: Beeboy, catboi (The Boiz if you will)

People who are playing more scummy than both of them despite probably being town: Mastina.

[beeboy]

Super townie post ^^^

[MariaR]

Beeboy...no.

I think we're missing the point where if we keep engaging with the wall of noise you'll keep getting it when other factors are of more importance. Do people townread catboi/like there recent posting? Has it impressed them enough to deal with the early game of Tux that was (imo) the worst in the game?

[Titus]

VOTE: catboi

I will vote mastina only if needed to progress the game. I think she's town here, but I am open to reassessing.

[MariaR]

The only slots I see real reason to want to vote are Panzer/Cat/jk. Could argue for Tipsy but that's not gonna happen with my levels of effort to be honest.

VOTE: catboi

[MariaR]

Pretty good putting Titus/Mastina/Shiro/Beeboy in my townie pool.