Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[Raya36]

Also noting that I don't like Looker putting doubt on the claims (especially Taylor)

What do you gain from this overdefense of Tayl0r? What do you lose from me being appropriately suspicious of roles that aren't confirmed?



VOTE: Looker

How is that an over defense of Taylor? I think the claim is genuine and I don't like the shade you're putting on it. Yes we should confirm the claims by the end of the day. But putting shade on them right now does no good.

[Raya36]

Also meant to ask why the self vote?

[callforjudgement]

After rereading Frogster (and thinking about the nightkill somewhat), I think that Frogsterking is town. Not_Mafia's play was, whilst not actually scummy, very anti-town (and Frogster picked up on that). So I'm pretty sure that Frogster would consider Not_Mafia's presence an asset to scum, and there's pretty much no way that a hypothetically scum Frogster would make that kill. (Sometimes scum make non-obvious kills for WIFOM purposes, but I don't think that a hypothetically scum Frogster would expect town to reason "Not_Mafia dead → Frogster town", so this would only be useful for WIFOM if he had a buddy point it out, and this hasn't happened.)

I was townreading Frogster anyway, though, even before the nightkill (his reads are bad but that doesn't make him scum).

---

Also, @

Not_Mafia

, just in case you're reading this from the dead thread:

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

Even D1, some players were picking up on the possibility that Italiano was a confirmable power role (I saw Mason as a possibility, but thought that scum was a stronger possibility, and of course if Italiano was on the point of elimination as a Mason he would be able to claim out of it so that was no reason not to push him). He was, in fact, a confirmable power role. Those players are the worst possible slots to vig because if you wagon them and they claim, now you can let them confirm themself overnight and you get a second town-controlled kill; but if you nightkill them as town, then they don't get a chance to demonstrate why you're wrong about them. (This is especially important because players who are confirmable as town tend to put less effort into showing themselves as town through their dayplay!)

I'll be hopeful that you have a good explanation for this postgame. If it was just pure trolling, then you were playing quite heavily against your win condition.

[callforjudgement]

(And just to clarify for any newer players who don't know the terminology: "scummy" = "likely to come from scum"; "anti-town" = "likely to

help

scum". Obviously there's a correlation, but some things are anti-town without being scummy, such as siteflaking.)

[Nosferatu]

it is so very normal to vote somebody who isn't your top scum read i've rarely ever had to justify doing so

[geraintm]

it is so very normal to vote somebody who isn't your top scum read i've rarely ever had to justify doing so

yeah, you are going to have to run that one by me again...

[Nosferatu]

it is so very normal to vote somebody who isn't your top scum read i've rarely ever had to justify doing so

[Tayl0r Swift]

Also noting that I don't like Looker putting doubt on the claims (especially Taylor)

What do you gain from this overdefense of Tayl0r? What do you lose from me being appropriately suspicious of roles that aren't confirmed?



VOTE: Looker

How is that an over defense of Taylor? I think the claim is genuine and I don't like the shade you're putting on it. Yes we should confirm the claims by the end of the day. But putting shade on them right now does no good.

it just feels like most of your posts today have been an attempt to pocket me

[callforjudgement]

• Gamma Emerald asked for a votecount and here it is; so who are you going to vote?

---

• Why did CFJ ask me to move my vote but not RCEnigma? Why are players ignoring RCEnigma?

Why didn't you move your vote at the time you made this post?

This is especially relevant as moving to shelly at this point would have caused her to be hammered (the demand was there: #826, #827, #830), and if you preferred the Walter wagon, there was demand there too. You could probably have pushed either wagon over the finish line, but instead you waited and Nosferatu made the decision.

(Although deadline had been paused – at 2½ hours, so we were effectively in a "go offline and day could randomly end before you can react" situation ­– it was still very unlikely than anyone other than Shelly or Walter would be town's choice at that point.)

[ItalianoVD]

@Taylor: 952 is a joke right?

@Raya: Did you ever look into Walter’s meta? (224). And did you ever go back? (299)

And am I the only one who DIDN’T think Frogster was in a neighborhood?

[ItalianoVD]

I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?

Or we can just vote you off.

pour quoi?

@Taylor: I am scumreading Gamma, just so you know.

why?

-An uninspiring iso

-Early day 1 interaction with Banana and Walter: He was okay answering Banana’s pointless questions (45), but got on Walter for asking pointless questions (191). His explanation in 240 made no sense to me. He put merit in Banana’s questions but disregarded Walter’s and they were equally as unproductive.

-The inconsistency on Walter in 842 and 843.

-Potential offwagon scum[/list]

VOTE: Gamma

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 2.3

RCEnigma(4)

~ Tayl0r Swift(29), callforjudgement(17), Raya36(20), geraintm(7)

Looker(2)

~ Nosferatu(11), Looker(5)

Raya36(1)

~ RCEnigma(17)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ ItalianoVD(17)

callforjudgement(1)

~ Frogsterking(15)


Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald(4), WaltertheDunce10(4)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-22 17:44:55)

[Looker]

• Where is WaltertheDunce10?

---

Spoiler:

Also noting that I don't like Looker putting doubt on the claims (especially Taylor)

What do you gain from this overdefense of Tayl0r? What do you lose from me being appropriately suspicious of roles that aren't confirmed?



VOTE: Looker

How is that an over defense of Taylor? I think the claim is genuine and I don't like the shade you're putting on it. Yes we should confirm the claims by the end of the day. But putting shade on them right now does no good.

That's not making sense to me. "confirm[ing] the claims by the end of the day" requires suspicion. Why would my suspicion upset you

---

• What I was asking geraintm: If you scumread shelly for calling my first post scummy, does her flipping scum reflect negatively on WaltertheDunce10 to you (seeing as he did the exact same thing)?
  
• I didn't move my vote when CFJ requested because I didn't invest enough in this game to feel confident about the decision. It was more advantageous for me to sort you people who've been playing this for a while.

[Tayl0r Swift]

at this point im kinda more confident in raya being scum than enigma. raya is rolefishing and trying to pocket me. VOTE: raya. its interesting that theyre voting each other though. that could be an "uh oh we're caught better do something to make it look like we cant both be scum" play.

[Raya36]

Also noting that I don't like Looker putting doubt on the claims (especially Taylor)

What do you gain from this overdefense of Tayl0r? What do you lose from me being appropriately suspicious of roles that aren't confirmed?



VOTE: Looker

How is that an over defense of Taylor? I think the claim is genuine and I don't like the shade you're putting on it. Yes we should confirm the claims by the end of the day. But putting shade on them right now does no good.

it just feels like most of your posts today have been an attempt to pocket me

Fair but not my intentions

[Raya36]

@Taylor: 952 is a joke right?

@Raya: Did you ever look into Walter’s meta? (224). And did you ever go back? (299)

And am I the only one who DIDN’T think Frogster was in a neighborhood?

I skimmed some Walter meta and I didnt go back through cfj

[Raya36]

• Where is WaltertheDunce10?

---

Spoiler:

Also noting that I don't like Looker putting doubt on the claims (especially Taylor)

What do you gain from this overdefense of Tayl0r? What do you lose from me being appropriately suspicious of roles that aren't confirmed?



VOTE: Looker

How is that an over defense of Taylor? I think the claim is genuine and I don't like the shade you're putting on it. Yes we should confirm the claims by the end of the day. But putting shade on them right now does no good.

That's not making sense to me. "confirm[ing] the claims by the end of the day" requires suspicion. Why would my suspicion upset you

Suspicion is fine but you claimed to have suspicion on all of the claims and it read more like scum trying to gently push the claimed PRs before they become confirmed

[WaltertheDunce10]

I am here but am sick and then fell asleep for 12 hours. Have some work to do but I would be fine with cfj raya or looker.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Gamma

I feel like scum are lying low today. Most of the active posters look townie. The two largest wagons don't look very promising, especially the RCE wagon looks quite bad.

I'm going to consolidate my baby wagon with Italiano's baby wagon. Gamma seems like a strong choice, behaviorally very easy for scum to hide in that slot, lots of weak pushes without using his vote very much, a one-dimensional mildly sarcastic + angry tone in almost all of his interactions, and he was off wagon yesterday.

[callforjudgement]

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma's normally quite a mechanically minded player, so this should be the sort of gamestate he thrives in, yet he hasn't posted much toDay. I'm interested in hearing more from the slot (and I don't think my RCEnigma vote serves much of a purpose any more).

[Gamma Emerald]

{italiano, frogster}
{ts, walter, rce}
{looker, gamma, geraint}
{cfg}
{raya}

where im at right now

VOTE: looker

Why are you voting in the tier you are?

[Frogsterking]

After rereading Frogster (and thinking about the nightkill somewhat), I think that Frogsterking is town. Not_Mafia's play was, whilst not actually scummy, very anti-town (and Frogster picked up on that). So I'm pretty sure that Frogster would consider Not_Mafia's presence an asset to scum, and there's pretty much no way that a hypothetically scum Frogster would make that kill. (Sometimes scum make non-obvious kills for WIFOM purposes, but I don't think that a hypothetically scum Frogster would expect town to reason "Not_Mafia dead → Frogster town", so this would only be useful for WIFOM if he had a buddy point it out, and this hasn't happened.)

I was townreading Frogster anyway, though, even before the nightkill (his reads are bad but that doesn't make him scum).

---

Also, @

Not_Mafia

, just in case you're reading this from the dead thread:

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

Even D1, some players were picking up on the possibility that Italiano was a confirmable power role (I saw Mason as a possibility, but thought that scum was a stronger possibility, and of course if Italiano was on the point of elimination as a Mason he would be able to claim out of it so that was no reason not to push him). He was, in fact, a confirmable power role. Those players are the worst possible slots to vig because if you wagon them and they claim, now you can let them confirm themself overnight and you get a second town-controlled kill; but if you nightkill them as town, then they don't get a chance to demonstrate why you're wrong about them. (This is especially important because players who are confirmable as town tend to put less effort into showing themselves as town through their dayplay!)

I'll be hopeful that you have a good explanation for this postgame. If it was just pure trolling, then you were playing quite heavily against your win condition.

"Cinderblock", a mafia short story by Frogserking.

______________

D1

Frogster: *Pushes hard for BW on shelly, now confirmed mafia goon.*

CFJ: *Tries hard to pull BW off of shelly, now confirmed mafia goon.*

D2

CFJ: "I reread Frogster and his reads are bad, he seems town tho hurr hurrr."

______________

VOTE: CFJ

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not avoiding the thread, I’m just focused on other hobbies recently

[Gamma Emerald]

Can anyone interpret Nosferatu's readslist and explain to me why he's voting me over Raya? (Or voting me at all)

{town}
{nulltown}
{null}
{nullscum}
{scum}

so youre saying youre voting a null slot over a scum slot?
explain

{italiano, frogster}
{ts, walter, rce}
{looker, gamma, geraint}
{cfj}
{raya}

where im at right now

VOTE: looker

youre voting for someone in the middle of your readlist?

gotta sort them somehow i dont think any more pressure on cfj is doing anything

Okay. Why are you voting to sort rn? I don’t think it’s wrong to do that, but why?

[callforjudgement]

@

Frogsterking

: Have you forgotten your screenfuls-long posts on Nosferatu? #255 and #288.

By comparison, you did basically nothing to push shelly. You had a mild scumread in #488 and didn't make any cases for a stronger read all Day (and admitted as much in #784). The only actual pushing you did was #854, very late in the Day (it's after the deadline freeze had occurred).

You're currently posting as though you had a super-strong read on shelly throughout, but your day 1 posts don't match that very well.