@CFJ
I believe you are persuasive and playing against town in this game and you have no chance of persuading me otherwise. If you successfully BW another player who flips scum or are innoed by a PR then I will consider changing my mind. Because of this, if you're town, you may as well just scum hunt instead of trying to change my mind.I will try to elaborate why I interpret 1002 the way I do based on your questions here:
If I walked into a store and you tried to sell me your townread and 1002 was the pitch, I would say no and walk away. It's a behavioral read. It's like not knowing why one actor is bad versus another actor is good. Some people have more of an ear for that type of thing, others need to study it for a while and then they can tell.In post 1120, callforjudgement wrote:I was frustrated with the scumflip D1. Obviously it's very helpful in terms of our win condition, but on the flipside of that, it doesn't make any sense (and nor does the nightkill). OK, so one scum was apparently unaware that this game was happening, which increases the chance that scum simply couldn't control the D1 voting (alternatively, one scum was intentionally avoiding the game, but that makes less sense rather than more). But even so, how often does it happen that scum end up getting voted out D1, when there's a viable counterwagon and many/most of the players on the wagon don't even think they're scum?In post 1112, Frogsterking wrote:There are other reasons why I consider CFJ to be scummy, in short: he tried to pull the BW off of a confirmed scum player, he seemed frustrated after the scum player got lynched, and he posted an inauthentic looking town read on me in 1002.
To me, scumhunting/townhunting is all about trying to figure out what everyone else is thinking. In a situation like this, I have no idea at all what scum were thinking, and that makes it very hard to work out what I should be looking for.
@Frogster: in terms of the "inauthentic townread", I've explained where my townread came from. Is there part of my reasoning that you specifically think can't/doesn't come from town? If so, which? I'm concerned that you think the read is inauthentic because you think I'm scum, rather than vice versa.
I don't know if town!CFJ would townread me or not, maybe town!CFJ would townread me for similar reasons, I simply don't believe town!CFJ wrote 1002. I could be wrong, and I'm very confident that I could be wrong, enough so to give it a number (albeit non-scientific and for fun): 30% 1002 could be written by town!CFJ in the timespan and context it was posted.
It reminded me of this moment from D1:
In post 417, BananaCucho wrote:Am I the only one that thinks that is townreading Nos? I don't understand the scumreads on him and the votes on him feel opportunistic at best
I read posts like these and it shoots whoever to the top of my scum list. I believe posts like these are a sign that banana is not a very skilled liar, which is a part of his charm, and his charm was the reason he was being town read.In post 422, BananaCucho wrote:Tone feels town, I have also done the exact same thing as town multiple times myself in the past.In post 420, ItalianoVD wrote:Could you explain why? I’m open to see things differently.In post 417, BananaCucho wrote:Am I the only one that thinks that is townreading Nos? I don't understand the scumreads on him and the votes on him feel opportunistic at best
Mainly, I don't see the play here from a scum POV. Especially with the self vote. I understand the "AtE" argument but it feels like suboptimal play, he could just attempt to brush off the criticism as scum instead of going ham like this and self voting
I feel the same way about 1002, I feel it's a sign you're not a skilled liar, and instead of relying on charm to not get lynched (like banana) you're relying on being persuasive. The difference between you and banana here is that you were already at the top of my scum list, and you knew it, and the townread was on me, hence my pushing much more adamantly for you.
And I disagree about your feelings of D1 lynches, it has more to do with the players who roll scum than it does with the player making the reads. If the scum team makes mistakes and the other players call them out, they will get lynched. If the scum team doesn't make mistakes or doesn't get called out they will probably not get lynched. If the scum team doesn't make mistakes, doesn't get called out, and are very coordinated with each other, there is an even less likely chance they will get lynched.
In this case it appears that at least one player made a mistake and got called out, and the scum team may not be very coordinated either, though we don't know that yet. I don't believe this is an unreasonable outcome of D1.
