Newbie 617 (Over!)

[Flameaxe]

Darox, townie, killed night two.

Five alive, three to lynch.

[clammy]

D3 huh?
Clearly needing a re-read.

[Qman]

*insert vapid post here*

Here I go breaking one of jeeps rules.

I kinda expected Darox to die, I didn't expect him to flip townie I thought he'd flip cop. Not really sure what to think about his death, it smells like a Brandi frame job.

By the way I am gone in 2 days so... yeah.

[clammy]

yeah, on first read i agree about a Brandi frame job, i suspect this is where i come back to pointing the finger back at Caf, but want that re-read first.

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, Darox dying is weird. Leaning toward the Brandi+Darla=town+town, as bas as that is for our analysis. Need a reread on our survivors.

Obviously, no one should vote yet, as we're in LyLo.

[Darox]

Wait what?

"Bah"

[Brandi]

IMO, I believe that killing Darox was a terrible idea. I kind of expected Clammy or Mr.Flay to die seeing as how they would probably be our only hopes in making it through Lylo. (Well, just my opinion, they are very intelligent, experienced, IC's ...) The mafia obviously didn't think their kill through properly. (On the other hand, killing me would have been utterly stupid)

Anyway Qman, I think the killing of Darox could be a way of not only setting me up, but maybe Clammy as well... seeing as how he was kind of headstrong against Darox as I was. Though Clammy was a bit more levelheaded about it though...

Then again, perhaps I'm making the mistake of labeling Clammy as town in my mind. I've been making the horrible mistake of being too sure of certain people this whole game.

Before D3 I slightly suspected Qman because I'm wondering. Would someone who is scum purposely kill someone to set someone up and then suggest it was a set up the next day? I don't know. I guess that kinda sounds like WIFOM. Ugh.

I guess this so far proves Bazza was completely wrong about Armlx and Darox. Though I'm not going to make fun of him for it because that would make me a hypocrite.

Heh, I have never been in Lylo before. (This is my first game that got past D1 even...) Ok I'll stop rambling now. I just felt like I had to say SOMETHING.

But hey, Where is Caf? I feel like he's not even apart of the game anymore. Is he even aware of what is going on now?

[Brandi]

Wait what?

"Bah"

Glad you brought back the Hobbes.

[clammy]

IMO, I believe that killing Darox was a terrible idea. I kind of expected Clammy or Mr.Flay to die seeing as how they would probably be our only hopes in making it through Lylo.

The thing about this is that you're saying this like you

know

that Flay and myself are town, yet the only way this is possible is if you were scum all along.

Assuming you're not about to claim scum you seem to be fingering Qman and Caf, but you're hardly going after them hard and fast, and your #756 makes about roughly equal comment about everyone , which makes me wonder if you're trying to cast a wide net of suspicion everywhere but at you.

[Mr. Flay]

I like clammy's post, actually. Brandi living past D1 makes sense if this is her first time as scum...

...waitaminit

.

This is the first game you're in on this site that's MADE IT past Day One, Brandi! NG 612 was cancelled. NG 647 and Mini 650 are still on D1. What games are you referring to - somewhere else?

Also,

mod: Please remind caf19 that D3 has dawned?

[Brandi]

Clammy, I wasn't asking Qman about Caf. I was asking in general. =P Also if you read later in my post you'll notice that I mentioned that:

"perhaps I'm making the mistake of labeling Clammy as town in my mind. I've been making the horrible mistake of being too sure of certain people this whole game. "

So nah, I don't know you're town. Actually you could be scum now that I think about it. You never brought up how Darox dying could be a set up against me until AFTER Qman mentioned it. Makes me think you were never going to mention it. ;P

I'm talking about THIS game mister Flay. THIS game is the one that is past Day 1, thats what I was saying O.o I dunno what you're asking me.

[Mr. Flay]

I kinda expected Darox to die, I didn't expect him to flip townie I thought he'd flip cop. Not really sure what to think about his death, it smells like a Brandi frame job.

Why did you think Darox was gonna flip Cop? Who do you think he investigated?

brandi, my mistake. I somehow misread your post as "this is the first game I have survived in past Day 1", I think I was reading that in some other game... :trout:

[Qman]

I kinda expected Darox to die, I didn't expect him to flip townie I thought he'd flip cop. Not really sure what to think about his death, it smells like a Brandi frame job.

Why did you think Darox was gonna flip Cop? Who do you think he investigated?

brandi, my mistake. I somehow misread your post as "this is the first game I have survived in past Day 1", I think I was reading that in some other game... :trout:

Early vote on clammy. suspect follows

[caf19]

No more lurking from me (sorry about that). Will post something proper later today or tomorrow.

[Brandi]

ok, about to make a huge ass post very soon.

[Brandi]

^{So, I have done a re-read on all the surviving players.}

On my first re-read I noticed Clammy's attack of Darox on page 5. Now right here, this is not scummy of Clammy. He had legitimate reasonings for his attack. However, on page 5,

Qman

was very quick to hop on in attacking. This is a small sign of Qman following the crowd, but at that point it wasn't much of a tell.

On

Pre-Flay/Angelmouse

Early on... I notice her play is no where near as good as Mister Flay's. But her actions/posts themselves were very tunnel-visioned and irrational red herrings, to say the least. It seems she was trying to work her way into building some crap cases, but was never able to follow through because she had to be replaced.

Reading through, I get a a very town feel from Caf19, and a slight iffy feel from Clammy. But I have noticed that after re-reading the game, the scum pair is just blatantly obvious.

We'll start with when Mr.Flay comes into the picture:

20 pages read, no real notes, because I was going for the gestalt approach. Unfortunately it led me to the conclusion that bazza is Too Scummy To Be Scum (i.e. Village Idiot). EVERYONE suspects him, or has at some point; everyone. That never happens with actual scum on D1, short of a complete meltdown by the mafioso. Instead, what's likely going on here is that the scum are going for the easy kill, and Bazza is letting his frustration transform him into a giant green monster of overconfidence and rage. Which only makes him more of a target...rinse, repeat.

^{Mr.Flay announces his somewhat certainty of bazza being town here.}

Not exactly the same way, because there's no categorical imperative to act scummy, whereas there is one to act pro-town. Bazza's got no reason to act the way he is, regardless of alignment, which makes the extremity of his behavior sort of a null tell. Inconsistency and uselessness, sure, that's pretty decent reasons to lynch him, but his lashing out at everyone doesn't fit in my book.

^{Continues to note the certainty.}

Nice to see someone who isn't scared to stand out and give fresh opinions. Welcome Mr.Flay. I'm so glad someone else is seeing what i'm seeing.

Just because I'm not supporting your lynch, don't assume I'm on your side. You've said you're seeing a LOT of things, no one could agree with them all.

^{Here, he DIRECTLY states that he does not support his lynch.}

moving on for a moment...

***

P.S. Qman, despite being on my side on the armlx thing, this is scummy as hell:

Even if you are town, I feel the town is better off with you dead than alive, due to your play. This is normally an attitude I storngly disagree with, but you are proving the exception to the rule.

There are valid cases posted against you, regardless of if you think they are valid.

The only two people I'd vote for as things stand are Bazza and Armix. I have serious problems with Armix' early play which I'll dive into at a later point. I need to decide if I want do that today or tomorrow.

The sad part is, my instinct is telling me that I'd rather see Armix lynched today, but my head and reason tell me it should be you.

Feel like revisiting that discussion, now?

Gladly, I'll address this and my thoughts both now and then when i get the time later tonight.

^{Something is Fishy here. Mr.Flay states that the post is scummy, but does not specifically point out why. Perhaps an attempt to give QMAN a chance for an easy way out so that the scumminess of the post is not later brought up and pressured upon him more? Qman also seems really buddyish towards someone who just called him out. He doesn't even attempt to address it right away, just notes that he will address it later. Obviously he didn't have time to address it then. But why would he make a point that he would address it when he could just wait till later and address it when he was actually ready? Was it necessary? Maybe for someone who is worried they'd be further questioned by other individuals. Pretty much he put in a place holder in hopes that everyone knew that it didn't need to be further questioned.}

...I've also been rethinking my thought that we'd learn alot off his lynch. (referring to Bazza) We probably wouldn't learn much of anything, in fact, as everyone has just pushed the same track. ...

^{Its true, we didn't learn much. But Qman conveniently decided that this would be the case. Perhaps he knows that the people on his wagon were all town?}

Something worth noting***

When Mister Flay first comes into the picture, he builds a case on Caf, Darox, and lightly questions Armlx and Qman. Caf,Darox,Armlx, and Qman all respond to Mr.Flays accusations and he then responds again to everyone

except

Qman.



.....

Post subj# 567, Bazza insinuates that Armlx will claim a power role since he is at L-1.

If he was going to falseclaim, it would make sense to do it now while he's in hammering range. This gets a little WIFOM, but not claiming is actually a point in his favor.

If Brandi is scum and he claims Cop/Doc for example, a Mafia Goon can hammer with very little real consequence (it's a good trade for them, plus they learn the setup).

Unvote, pseudovote: armlx with the understanding that this is to prevent a 'quicklynch' only. I still intend to vote him once we hear from Brandi, but the risk is fairly great here.

<sup>Mr. Flay states that he is certain that he is going to hammer armlx.

After armlx claims doctor, Clammy states</sup>

Clearly it's a waste to hammer armlx tonight (unvote).

^{He is within understanding that this should be discussed, and says no more.}

Next post: Bazza claims to not be surprised about his claiming a power role. But its not like he could hammer him anyway, since his vote was already on him. Right?

...

Next post: BAM! Mr. Flay Hammers Bazza. Giving no warning, no reason, nothing. What made him change his mind so quickly about bazza? At that point he didn't even suspect bazza.

That's just silly, you have stated that you think i am townie, yet you are comfortable voting for me. I thought you said you'd stick with Armlx regardless of his claim, he is obviously lying. I thought you being an experienced player would realise this.

If you think i'm a townie then why are you voting for me? wouldn't it be better to stick with Armlx (which i thought Psuedo vote meant) or move to someone like Darox who is another Obv scum.

<sup>As much as I hate to say this, Bazza actually made sense. Sense in the fact that Flay DID intend to lynch Armlx.

Arlmx's claim obviously shook Flay. He didn't question it because he believed him. Why did he believe him?</sup>

Because he knew he was telling the truth.

^{post subject # 591 I question Flay.....}

However, Mr.Flay. You were very quick to hammer Bazza weren't you? You didn't even wait for a reaction from the majority to his claim. That seems pretty scummy to me.
FOS:Mr.Flay
Just because you are a very experienced and loved player doesn't mean I don't think for a second that you might not be scum! You've been pretty pro-townie appearing up until now. I don't understand why you would do something like that. =/

^{... and I should have stuck with it.}

^{Because of my gullible- ness, I took Qmans very very very Scummy response as an actual answer.}

I wasn't able to post during twilight, but I would have hammered bazza if Flay hadn't. Take that for what it is worth. I *really* wish the forums were set up for mobile posting, most of my reading is done on my Q9M.

A bit MORE wifom, I don't think Flay hammering was that bad, we had two viable options for a lynch and one claimed doc... but that could be colored by the fact that I would have hammered too.

^{A few posts later suspicion is brought upon Darla.
Now for what Mister Flay says next.}

I'm sure my hammer on Bazza looks weird, but the LAST thing we needed was to lose the claimed Doctor to a quicklynch. This way there was at least a WIFOM-chance that he could protect someone last night (if scum went for someone else, framing armlx for today as a living claimed Doctor).

Obviously it didn't go that way, and I'm happy to answer any questions about what I did. But after armlx's claim, ridding ourselves of the confusion of Bazza's distractionary tactics was the second best option IMO.

Right now I'm leaning toward Darla/Brandi, but I need a reread. Today and tomorrow are insane though...

There is only one thing that is seriously wrong with his answer here.

No one in their right mind would quicklynch a claimed DOCTOR.

Obviously HE

KNEW

that. If he had not quick lynched him, discussion over armlx's claim would have started. We NEEDED time to wait for a counter claim. Time to gather and analyze the reactions. Mr.Flay did NOT want us to gain ANY information through discussion. No townie would quick lynch Armlx, and scum would not either. WHY would scum QUICKLYNCH a claimed doctor when they can just

NIGHT KILL

HIM? Perhaps a second reasoning for the quick lynch is because he did not want his partner to fake claim.**** Most of all, when he stated that we didn't need to lynch a claimed doctor, WHAT MADE HIM SO SURE THAT ARMLX'S CLAIM WAS AN HONEST ONE WHEN THERE WAS NO FURTHER DISCUSSION AND HE WAS

SO INTENT ON LYNCHING HIM BEFORE?

BECAUSE he did not give time for a counterclaim BACKS UP my accusation that he KNEW he was telling the truth. HE KNEW ARMLX REALLY WAS THE DOCTOR.

Qman states here:

1.) Doc loss, totally expected given Armix' claim.

[...]

I really expected Armix to still be alive today, doc or not. He'd look REALLY bad if he didn't die..

1) He stated it was expected BECAUSE of his claim. This ALSO insinuates that Armlx claim was easy to believe with no questions asked.
2) He goes on to completely contradict himself.
3)Clammy points this out.
4)Qman responds completely with WIFOM, in hopes to get rid of any suspicion on him because of what he would do "if he was scum."
5) He states that "I work really hard not to be predictable on my NK's as scum."
If this is true, perhaps Qman is the scum that

did not

send in the Night Kill.


Then the Darla wagon soon begins to grow. This time, a townie is claimed. Flay says that he does not intend to suddenly hammer her. 'This time' Why? I'm sort of thinking he was

hoping for a power role.

My gut is telling me the scum two of darla/brandi/clammy... if darla flips town i'd probably focus mostly on the other two with a hard eye for caf as well.

3 person group.

It's a common scum tactic to give a list of 3 people and plug the partner in it as town. For some reason it's the list of THREE people that triggers that thought to me, as it's easier to hide a buddy up and tie in three than two or one...

...

Yes I know I just posted a list of three people I don't really like much, but for some reason I think those two things are different...

^{No, it isn't different. Its absolutely the same. But its flipped around here. I posted who I thought was probably town, you posted who you thought was probably scum. The thing is, my pointing towards my thoughts on TOWN players is not a scum tell. But you posting your thoughts on SCUM players IS a tell. You are putting 3 people out there for suspicion, to potentially branch off of later. I am not. Obviously I made a mistake in my town list though.}

Yeah but they also knew the armix wagon was on an innocent, and they both ended up at L-1. There really wasn't much risk for scum there.

The only person I'm comfortable with as town is Flay

. He hammered when (i feel) he had to yesterday, and hammered the only option that was there for a town player. The fact that he didn't hammer here speaks well of him as well. However it also makes the specter of a Flay/DBE scum pair float in the back of my head to be recalled at a later date should I need it. I’m not that sold on this idea but later on it’s worth keeping in mind.

^{This post is so scummy it hurts. It really really really hurts. At first I didn't understand, because in my mind I couldn't see you as scum. But now that I see Qman as scum, it makes total and complete sense. EVEN MORE SENSE in the idea of a Flay/Qman scum pair. I'm willing to bet everything that this time, I am not at all far off the mark.}

Post # 696 and 697 seem like Qman-Flay buddying.

Brandi, if you're a Cop, just claim already so that we can lynch Darox and end this day.

At first I highly considered this to be said in a facetious tone. But now that I've thought about it, I can see some obvious role fishing here.
Earlier in the game, Qman

suggested that he felt there was definitely a roleblocker that was 'not armlx'.

Flay quickhammered bazza, but not Darla. Because Darla's circumstance does not involve a power role.

The last peice of evidence against Q-man:

I kinda expected Darox to die, I didn't expect him to flip townie I thought he'd flip cop. Not really sure what to think about his death, it smells like a Brandi frame job.

<sup>He expected him to be a cop. What makes him so sure that there is a cop? If anything, the chances of there being a cop have seemed slim to none seeing as how we are IN LYLO and NO ONE has CLAIMED. If there WERE a cop it would make sense that there had been some investigations?

Pretty much, Qman is not surprised over Darox's death because HE KNEW he who was getting NK'd. Because he is scum. More ever, his reasoning is that he thought Darox was a cop. Not only that but it made it easy for him to say "This looks like a Brandi set up" which he probably thinks made himself appear more town.</sup>

Also Mr.Flay's response:

Why did you think Darox was gonna flip Cop? Who do you think he investigated?

<sup>Seems to imply that hes confident about the idea of a cop, and questioning thoughts on investigations is just... odd.

All in All, Mr.Flay and Qman are the only ones who have brought up the idea of a cop, and seem to believe that there IS a cop. As the uninformed minority, and with how things are going, I have found it hard to believe that there is a cop. But based on my suspicions, which I am very confident in, it seems as though there is one.</sup>


I'd say my suspicions speak for themselves.

[Mr. Flay]

Haven't read Brandi's most recent post yet, but I want to float that our two lurkers are coming out of the woodwork now in endgame. caf19+Brandi seems plausible on that basis alone, but not enough for a vote yet...

[caf19]

Well, this is a daunting situation... our scumpair is two of Brandi, Clammy, Flay and Qman (and myself)? I wouldn't have put money on that... but they're out there. Obviously what we shouldn't do at this stage is rush.

I guess analysing the NK too much is a bad thing, but I think it's worth briefly commenting on as it was somewhat surprising to me. Darox was the most-suspected person left, so one might have though he'd be left alive as a possible lynch today. His death, to me, demonstrates that the scum are pretty confident and probably haven't been suspected much to this point. To that effect I'd be looking at anyone acting confidently today.

A couple of things from the end of D2/start of today:

- Brandi's behaviour is a bit suspect. There's her 'feeling' that Darla will turn up town (didn't she do something similar with Bazza on Day 1?), possibly indicative of the mafioso's knowledge of roles. Then the switch to voting for Darla. Post 739 still has Darla just about pegged as town:

I said it before and I'll say it again, I feel like shes a female bazza. Really scummy but actually town.

and then the hammer comes in 741. That's a swift turnaround. What's more, she criticises Flay in her most recent post for a similar turnaround D1.

That said, Brandi does make some decent points in 765, which should be responded to. Not least this one:

When Mister Flay first comes into the picture, he builds a case on Caf, Darox, and lightly questions Armlx and Qman. Caf,Darox,Armlx, and Qman all respond to Mr.Flays accusations and he then responds again to everyone except Qman.

Re-reading, I did notice some backing-off on Qman by Flay. On top of Brandi's example, there's 645, where Flay intimates Qman as a potential scum partner for the hypothetical Darla-scum.

The usual reason for that (if the person is scum) is that their partner is on the wagon and they're either prepared to go down for the team, or they believe the partner will jump off if things get any more serious. Since caf is the one asking here, that leans toward a Qman partner, but obviously that requires one successful lynch here first. No big data yet, but I want to get as much out there for Qman to reply to before he is replaced (or we lynch him, of course). Qman can you reply to this post when you get a chance?

By post 716 (a week later), Darla is still scum but Qman is now town:

Vote: Darla because I'm still seeing her as most likely to be scum here, though I'm not ruling out voting for Brandi. caf19 is somewhere in the middle of my scumlist, as is Darox. Qman and clammy strike me as town today.

Flay, what were the reasons for this turnaround? As far as I can tell, he only answered one of your questions in the mean time.

Also, a question for Qman (if you're even still around): You implied in 762 that you thought Darox would have been a cop with a guilty on clammy (if I'm reading that right). Darox wasn't a cop; do you still find clammy suspicious? Looking back at yesterday, I can see you had clammy as a suspect (post 697), but not a whole lot of reasoning for it.

In fact, Q jumps around with his suspicions quite a lot at the end of yesterday (suspects and votes for Brandi but then states his support for a Darla lynch)... perhaps it's Brandi and Q as our pair. I'm not confident enough on that now though, and can't make much sense of Brandi's change from having Qman as her 'most town player' to him being scum. More thinking needed obv.

As for the case on me, there's not much I can say to it as it's still rather vague...

[Qman]

I'm still around, I leave in the morning and will be spotty, at best after that for a few days. I'll get back to this later tonight.

[Qman]

^{So, I have done a re-read on all the surviving players.}

On my first re-read I noticed Clammy's attack of Darox on page 5. Now right here, this is not scummy of Clammy. He had legitimate reasonings for his attack. However, on page 5,

Qman

was very quick to hop on in attacking. This is a small sign of Qman following the crowd, but at that point it wasn't much of a tell.

Please point me to a single post I made on Page 5.

On Page 6 I went after pretty much EVERYONE to some degree. I didn’t hop on any bandwagon that I see rereading the first few pages..

On

Pre-Flay/Angelmouse

Early on... I notice her play is no where near as good as Mister Flay's. But her actions/posts themselves were very tunnel-visioned and irrational red herrings, to say the least. It seems she was trying to work her way into building some crap cases, but was never able to follow through because she had to be replaced.

Reading through, I get a a very town feel from Caf19, and a slight iffy feel from Clammy. But I have noticed that after re-reading the game, the scum pair is just blatantly obvious.

So this reads to me as you trying to condem Flay and me for 7 posts angelmouse made, (Saying angelmouse played is rather laughable) only one of which was substantive. Interrresting.

We'll start with when Mr.Flay comes into the picture:

20 pages read, no real notes, because I was going for the gestalt approach. Unfortunately it led me to the conclusion that bazza is Too Scummy To Be Scum (i.e. Village Idiot). EVERYONE suspects him, or has at some point; everyone. That never happens with actual scum on D1, short of a complete meltdown by the mafioso. Instead, what's likely going on here is that the scum are going for the easy kill, and Bazza is letting his frustration transform him into a giant green monster of overconfidence and rage. Which only makes him more of a target...rinse, repeat.

^{Mr.Flay announces his somewhat certainty of bazza being town here.}

Not exactly the same way, because there's no categorical imperative to act scummy, whereas there is one to act pro-town. Bazza's got no reason to act the way he is, regardless of alignment, which makes the extremity of his behavior sort of a null tell. Inconsistency and uselessness, sure, that's pretty decent reasons to lynch him, but his lashing out at everyone doesn't fit in my book.

^{Continues to note the certainty.}

Nice to see someone who isn't scared to stand out and give fresh opinions. Welcome Mr.Flay. I'm so glad someone else is seeing what i'm seeing.

Just because I'm not supporting your lynch, don't assume I'm on your side. You've said you're seeing a LOT of things, no one could agree with them all.

^{Here, he DIRECTLY states that he does not support his lynch.}

moving on for a moment...

***

P.S. Qman, despite being on my side on the armlx thing, this is scummy as hell:

Even if you are town, I feel the town is better off with you dead than alive, due to your play. This is normally an attitude I storngly disagree with, but you are proving the exception to the rule.

There are valid cases posted against you, regardless of if you think they are valid.

The only two people I'd vote for as things stand are Bazza and Armix. I have serious problems with Armix' early play which I'll dive into at a later point. I need to decide if I want do that today or tomorrow.

The sad part is, my instinct is telling me that I'd rather see Armix lynched today, but my head and reason tell me it should be you.

Feel like revisiting that discussion, now?

Gladly, I'll address this and my thoughts both now and then when i get the time later tonight.

^{Something is Fishy here. Mr.Flay states that the post is scummy, but does not specifically point out why. Perhaps an attempt to give QMAN a chance for an easy way out so that the scumminess of the post is not later brought up and pressured upon him more? Qman also seems really buddyish towards someone who just called him out. He doesn't even attempt to address it right away, just notes that he will address it later. Obviously he didn't have time to address it then. But why would he make a point that he would address it when he could just wait till later and address it when he was actually ready? Was it necessary? Maybe for someone who is worried they'd be further questioned by other individuals. Pretty much he put in a place holder in hopes that everyone knew that it didn't need to be further questioned.}

It’s obvious to anyone experienced why it’s scummy, I doubt Flay felt he had to spell out that saying you are willing to lynch a town, regardless because of their play, is not pro town. I mean.. wow. Reach much?

As for getting into it later, I didn’t want to go into why I thought Armlx might have done what he’d done with Zim. Armlx painted a HUGE target on zim with his comments, he pretty much shouted out that zim was a pro town power role. He heavily implied that Zim was the cop, as the tell he saw what a classic newbie cop tell. I started thinking about it and thought it was very possible that armlx was a doctor, or a cop trying to push someone else off as the cop. For what should be very obvious reasons I didn’t want to say this in the thread. I instantly believed Armlx’s claim, and never questioned.

...I've also been rethinking my thought that we'd learn alot off his lynch. (referring to Bazza) We probably wouldn't learn much of anything, in fact, as everyone has just pushed the same track. ...

^{Its true, we didn't learn much. But Qman conveniently decided that this would be the case. Perhaps he knows that the people on his wagon were all town?}

Or, I have the ability to think and process thought and logic. It was blatantly obvious that the static would prevent any good information. I like how you are building a house of cards out of me saying the same things other people said.

Something worth noting***

When Mister Flay first comes into the picture, he builds a case on Caf, Darox, and lightly questions Armlx and Qman. Caf,Darox,Armlx, and Qman all respond to Mr.Flays accusations and he then responds again to everyone

except

Qman.



.....

Post subj# 567, Bazza insinuates that Armlx will claim a power role since he is at L-1.

If he was going to falseclaim, it would make sense to do it now while he's in hammering range. This gets a little WIFOM, but not claiming is actually a point in his favor.

If Brandi is scum and he claims Cop/Doc for example, a Mafia Goon can hammer with very little real consequence (it's a good trade for them, plus they learn the setup).

Unvote, pseudovote: armlx with the understanding that this is to prevent a 'quicklynch' only. I still intend to vote him once we hear from Brandi, but the risk is fairly great here.

<sup>Mr. Flay states that he is certain that he is going to hammer armlx.

After armlx claims doctor, Clammy states</sup>

Clearly it's a waste to hammer armlx tonight (unvote).

^{He is within understanding that this should be discussed, and says no more.}

Next post: Bazza claims to not be surprised about his claiming a power role. But its not like he could hammer him anyway, since his vote was already on him. Right?

...

Next post: BAM! Mr. Flay Hammers Bazza. Giving no warning, no reason, nothing. What made him change his mind so quickly about bazza? At that point he didn't even suspect bazza.

This one Flay should address so I pass.

That's just silly, you have stated that you think i am townie, yet you are comfortable voting for me. I thought you said you'd stick with Armlx regardless of his claim, he is obviously lying. I thought you being an experienced player would realise this.

If you think i'm a townie then why are you voting for me? wouldn't it be better to stick with Armlx (which i thought Psuedo vote meant) or move to someone like Darox who is another Obv scum.

<sup>As much as I hate to say this, Bazza actually made sense. Sense in the fact that Flay DID intend to lynch Armlx.

Arlmx's claim obviously shook Flay. He didn't question it because he believed him. Why did he believe him?</sup>

Because he knew he was telling the truth.

This is BS.

^{post subject # 591 I question Flay.....}

However, Mr.Flay. You were very quick to hammer Bazza weren't you? You didn't even wait for a reaction from the majority to his claim. That seems pretty scummy to me.
FOS:Mr.Flay
Just because you are a very experienced and loved player doesn't mean I don't think for a second that you might not be scum! You've been pretty pro-townie appearing up until now. I don't understand why you would do something like that. =/

^{... and I should have stuck with it.}

^{Because of my gullible- ness, I took Qmans very very very Scummy response as an actual answer.}

I wasn't able to post during twilight, but I would have hammered bazza if Flay hadn't. Take that for what it is worth. I *really* wish the forums were set up for mobile posting, most of my reading is done on my Q9M.

A bit MORE wifom, I don't think Flay hammering was that bad, we had two viable options for a lynch and one claimed doc... but that could be colored by the fact that I would have hammered too.

Okay. Doesn’t change the fact I would have hammered bazza, there weren’t any other viable suspects and you seem to be implicating I should have gone after a doc claim that I believed.

^{A few posts later suspicion is brought upon Darla.
Now for what Mister Flay says next.}

I'm sure my hammer on Bazza looks weird, but the LAST thing we needed was to lose the claimed Doctor to a quicklynch. This way there was at least a WIFOM-chance that he could protect someone last night (if scum went for someone else, framing armlx for today as a living claimed Doctor).

Obviously it didn't go that way, and I'm happy to answer any questions about what I did. But after armlx's claim, ridding ourselves of the confusion of Bazza's distractionary tactics was the second best option IMO.

Right now I'm leaning toward Darla/Brandi, but I need a reread. Today and tomorrow are insane though...

There is only one thing that is seriously wrong with his answer here.

No one in their right mind would quicklynch a claimed DOCTOR.

Obviously HE

KNEW

that. If he had not quick lynched him, discussion over armlx's claim would have started. We NEEDED time to wait for a counter claim. Time to gather and analyze the reactions. Mr.Flay did NOT want us to gain ANY information through discussion. No townie would quick lynch Armlx, and scum would not either. WHY would scum QUICKLYNCH a claimed doctor when they can just

NIGHT KILL

HIM? Perhaps a second reasoning for the quick lynch is because he did not want his partner to fake claim.**** Most of all, when he stated that we didn't need to lynch a claimed doctor, WHAT MADE HIM SO SURE THAT ARMLX'S CLAIM WAS AN HONEST ONE WHEN THERE WAS NO FURTHER DISCUSSION AND HE WAS

SO INTENT ON LYNCHING HIM BEFORE?

BECAUSE he did not give time for a counterclaim BACKS UP my accusation that he KNEW he was telling the truth. HE KNEW ARMLX REALLY WAS THE DOCTOR.

1.) What counter claim? Scum would have to be monumentally stupid to counter claim a doc on Day 1. Colossal, gigantic, retarded to counter claim it, and a town doc would have been equally as retarded to do so. This is just a dumb line of attack if you lean on counter claims. I wasn’t happy Flay hammered so fast, but your arguments about why he should have waited are just… odd.

Qman states here:

1.) Doc loss, totally expected given Armix' claim.

[...]

I really expected Armix to still be alive today, doc or not. He'd look REALLY bad if he didn't die..

1) He stated it was expected BECAUSE of his claim. This ALSO insinuates that Armlx claim was easy to believe with no questions asked.
2) He goes on to completely contradict himself.
3)Clammy points this out.
4)Qman responds completely with WIFOM, in hopes to get rid of any suspicion on him because of what he would do "if he was scum."
5) He states that "I work really hard not to be predictable on my NK's as scum."
If this is true, perhaps Qman is the scum that

did not

send in the Night Kill.


Then the Darla wagon soon begins to grow. This time, a townie is claimed. Flay says that he does not intend to suddenly hammer her. 'This time' Why? I'm sort of thinking he was

hoping for a power role.

My gut is telling me the scum two of darla/brandi/clammy... if darla flips town i'd probably focus mostly on the other two with a hard eye for caf as well.

3 person group.

It's a common scum tactic to give a list of 3 people and plug the partner in it as town. For some reason it's the list of THREE people that triggers that thought to me, as it's easier to hide a buddy up and tie in three than two or one...

...

Yes I know I just posted a list of three people I don't really like much, but for some reason I think those two things are different...

^{No, it isn't different. Its absolutely the same. But its flipped around here. I posted who I thought was probably town, you posted who you thought was probably scum. The thing is, my pointing towards my thoughts on TOWN players is not a scum tell. But you posting your thoughts on SCUM players IS a tell. You are putting 3 people out there for suspicion, to potentially branch off of later. I am not. Obviously I made a mistake in my town list though.}

Yeah but they also knew the armix wagon was on an innocent, and they both ended up at L-1. There really wasn't much risk for scum there.

The only person I'm comfortable with as town is Flay

. He hammered when (i feel) he had to yesterday, and hammered the only option that was there for a town player. The fact that he didn't hammer here speaks well of him as well. However it also makes the specter of a Flay/DBE scum pair float in the back of my head to be recalled at a later date should I need it. I’m not that sold on this idea but later on it’s worth keeping in mind.

^{This post is so scummy it hurts. It really really really hurts. At first I didn't understand, because in my mind I couldn't see you as scum. But now that I see Qman as scum, it makes total and complete sense. EVEN MORE SENSE in the idea of a Flay/Qman scum pair. I'm willing to bet everything that this time, I am not at all far off the mark.}

Post # 696 and 697 seem like Qman-Flay buddying.

Brandi, if you're a Cop, just claim already so that we can lynch Darox and end this day.

At first I highly considered this to be said in a facetious tone. But now that I've thought about it, I can see some obvious role fishing here.
Earlier in the game, Qman

suggested that he felt there was definitely a roleblocker that was 'not armlx'.

Flay quickhammered bazza, but not Darla. Because Darla's circumstance does not involve a power role.

Or it could be a frustrated IC tired of you hammering after Darox saying in effect OMG HE IS GUILTY, TRUST ME! Without you doing anything but saying that over and over and over and over. Your attack on darox was poor.. and I might point out WRONG. All your certainty, all your omg he must be! And you were 100% wrong.

The last peice of evidence against Q-man:

I kinda expected Darox to die, I didn't expect him to flip townie I thought he'd flip cop. Not really sure what to think about his death, it smells like a Brandi frame job.

<sup>He expected him to be a cop. What makes him so sure that there is a cop? If anything, the chances of there being a cop have seemed slim to none seeing as how we are IN LYLO and NO ONE has CLAIMED. If there WERE a cop it would make sense that there had been some investigations?

Pretty much, Qman is not surprised over Darox's death because HE KNEW he who was getting NK'd. Because he is scum. More ever, his reasoning is that he thought Darox was a cop. Not only that but it made it easy for him to say "This looks like a Brandi set up" which he probably thinks made himself appear more town.</sup>

I’m not sure there is a cop (In fact, I’m 99.99% sure we don’t have one at this point.) but… ZOMG WE WEREN’T IN LYLO WHEN I THOUGHT DAROX WUZ COPZ. There was no compelling reason for him to cop claim yesterday as it was pretty clear flay and I wouldn’t hammer him. I didn’t want to call him out and get him nk’d. That’d be pretty anti town.

Here I reference Post 601:

My limited access is that I am in France, soon to be Germany.

I'm annoyed, to say the least. Bazza better start eating his ear like he promised for being wrong about armlx and crying for his blood.

Right now, I really don't like Clammy.

Hopped off Bazza's case as soon as I mentioned a passing suspicion, hopped off my case when the armlx wagon was gaining momentum, without giving good reasons for it. Look at clammy's votes on Bazza and Armlx, both times clammy provides some nonsense as reasoning.

On Bazza, Clammy stated that Bazza was 'stealing' arguments, by using the phrase 'tunnel visioned' that clammy had used in a post just before. Incidentally, I had used the phrase about 8-10 pages earlier.

On armlx, clammy stated he was not clammy's prefered lynch but was fine with putting him at L-1, and on top of that, clammy felt the need to add that armlx had 'the same birthday' thus was scummy.

It may be a while till I can next post, so I'm going to vote now.

Vote: Clammy

This is his first post D2. Can you find the classic cop crumb in there, or should I point it out? His ensuing play on Day 2 convinced me he was town, and that there was a good chance (say… 40%) he was a cop.

Darox did a really effective job of pointing himself as a cop. I read him as cop but I wanted to see what happened last night before I acted or you know, pointed more fingers at him being the only cop possibility we had.

Also Mr.Flay's response:

Why did you think Darox was gonna flip Cop? Who do you think he investigated?

^{Seems to imply that hes confident about the idea of a cop, and questioning thoughts on investigations is just... odd.}

Or…. He wanted to know WHY I thought Darox was a cop and who he’d investigated N1 if he was a cop? Both are very legitimate questions. And… WHAT INVESTIGATIONS!!!! I also don’t see this as reading Flay saying there has to be a cop.

All in All, Mr.Flay and Qman are the only ones who have brought up the idea of a cop, and seem to believe that there IS a cop. As the uninformed minority, and with how things are going, I have found it hard to believe that there is a cop. But based on my suspicions, which I am very confident in, it seems as though there is one.
[/sup]

I'd say my suspicions speak for themselves.

So wait.. you are now saying there is a cop, that could easily break the game right now with two valid investigations, after railing against Flay and I talking about the possibility that there is a cop? … Wow

[Sarcasm]We should just lynch caf and clammy now since brandi thinks Flay and I are scum, she’s batting 1000% at being wrong.[/sarcasim]

*mutters softly*


PS. Thank GOD for typing out this post in Microsoft Word, as the first two times i tried to post it the quota was exceeded.

[Mr. Flay]

Brandi is pegging my scumdar into the red at this point. "Certainty" about two "scum" who turned out to be town, manufacturing a case against me based on what Qman wrote, and a case on Qman based on what I wrote. Lurking through D2, then hammering Darla to throw us into LyLo.

^{Mr. Flay states that he is certain that he is going to hammer armlx.}

Pre-claim, sure. Lynching a claimed Doctor is foolishness, and doing the scum's job for them. You could have plausibly dropped the hammer on armlx, citing your 'certainty' that he was scum, and then we'd have gone into Night without even a snowball's chance of him surviving/protecting anyone. Part of my quicklynch was to prevent that, from anyscum (not just you).

Next post: BAM! Mr. Flay Hammers Bazza. Giving no warning, no reason, nothing. What made him change his mind so quickly about bazza? At that point he didn't even suspect bazza.

I didn't think Bazza was a particularly good D1 lynch, no. Part of that is that he was obviously flailing around. With armlx's claim of a power role and bazza's Townie claim, that changed the character of the Day entirely. Either we were going to have to find a

third

wagon to support, which might have taken another ten pages, or we could gather information and move on. There was a not-impossible chance that Bazza was scum, but he

was

a distraction.

The real question is, why am I only receiving serious flak for this NOW, not D2/page 20? I'll posit that it's partly because you were lurkerscum.

That's just silly, you have stated that you think i am townie, yet you are comfortable voting for me. I thought you said you'd stick with Armlx regardless of his claim, he is obviously lying. I thought you being an experienced player would realise this.

If you think i'm a townie then why are you voting for me? wouldn't it be better to stick with Armlx (which i thought Psuedo vote meant) or move to someone like Darox who is another Obv scum.

<sup>As much as I hate to say this, Bazza actually made sense. Sense in the fact that Flay DID intend to lynch Armlx.

Arlmx's claim obviously shook Flay. He didn't question it because he believed him. Why did he believe him?</sup>

Because he knew he was telling the truth.

That's insane. Even if I knew armlx was

Town

because i was scum, how would I know he was really a

Doctor

? Come on,

think

! At most I would know he wasn't going to claim Mafia/SK, which is a no-brainer. And if I knew he was town, why would his claim surprise me? If I thought he really was the Doctor, why wouldn't I take some time to buddy up to him before sticking the knife in his back overnight?

^{post subject # 591 I question Flay.....}

...

^{... and I should have stuck with it.}

^{Because of my gullible- ness, I took Qmans very very very Scummy response as an actual answer.}

This part is at least to your credit. But you dropped it, and now think it's blatant scumbuddy defending by Qman on me?

No one in their right mind would quicklynch a claimed DOCTOR.

Obviously HE

KNEW

that. If he had not quick lynched him, discussion over armlx's claim would have started. We NEEDED time to wait for a counter claim. Time to gather and analyze the reactions. Mr.Flay did NOT want us to gain ANY information through discussion. No townie would quick lynch Armlx, and scum would not either. WHY would scum QUICKLYNCH a claimed doctor when they can just

NIGHT KILL

HIM?

Right, no one in their right mind. But newbies aren't always in their right mind. And very few Doctors are going to counterclaim scum on D1. It just paints a target on their head. We could have argued for another 5 pages, but we BADLY needed some momentum at that point, and I stand by my decision to lynch the scummy distraction to clarify things.

Perhaps a second reasoning for the quick lynch is because he did not want his partner to fake claim.**** Most of all, when he stated that we didn't need to lynch a claimed doctor, WHAT MADE HIM SO SURE THAT ARMLX'S CLAIM WAS AN HONEST ONE WHEN THERE WAS NO FURTHER DISCUSSION AND HE WAS

SO INTENT ON LYNCHING HIM BEFORE?

BECAUSE he did not give time for a counterclaim BACKS UP my accusation that he KNEW he was telling the truth. HE KNEW ARMLX REALLY WAS THE DOCTOR.

Wait, what? armlx claimed Doctor because it was a) asked, b) avoided a lynch on him. Nobody thinks Doctor is a safeclaim for Scum, outside of endgame. armlx isn't a newbie. He waited until the last possible minute to roleclaim, and was already voting for Bazza.

My gut is telling me the scum two of darla/brandi/clammy... if darla flips town i'd probably focus mostly on the other two with a hard eye for caf as well.

3 person group.

It's a common scum tactic to give a list of 3 people and plug the partner in it as town. For some reason it's the list of THREE people that triggers that thought to me, as it's easier to hide a buddy up and tie in three than two or one...

...

Yes I know I just posted a list of three people I don't really like much, but for some reason I think those two things are different...

^{No, it isn't different. Its absolutely the same. But its flipped around here. I posted who I thought was probably town, you posted who you thought was probably scum. The thing is, my pointing towards my thoughts on TOWN players is not a scum tell. But you posting your thoughts on SCUM players IS a tell. You are putting 3 people out there for suspicion, to potentially branch off of later. I am not. Obviously I made a mistake in my town list though.}

It's totally a different thing. Posting three suspicious parties is just hedging your bets. Talking about who sounds "most town" isn't really helping the town any, because all it's doing is outlining who the scum might want to kill at Night. There's a reason we use Finger of Suspicion and not Hand of Innocence. The name of the game is

lynching scum

. Putting your scumbuddy in a group of three seemingly-town people avoids having to defend them too hard or specifically.

Yeah but they also knew the armix wagon was on an innocent, and they both ended up at L-1. There really wasn't much risk for scum there.

The only person I'm comfortable with as town is Flay

. He hammered when (i feel) he had to yesterday, and hammered the only option that was there for a town player. The fact that he didn't hammer here speaks well of him as well. However it also makes the specter of a Flay/DBE scum pair float in the back of my head to be recalled at a later date should I need it. I’m not that sold on this idea but later on it’s worth keeping in mind.

^{This post is so scummy it hurts. It really really really hurts. At first I didn't understand, because in my mind I couldn't see you as scum. But now that I see Qman as scum, it makes total and complete sense. EVEN MORE SENSE in the idea of a Flay/Qman scum pair. I'm willing to bet everything that this time, I am not at all far off the mark.}

I think you're tunnelvisioning. Again. (Or lying). You're looking for evidence of a Flay-Qman pair, not looking for scum and finding a Flay-Qman pair.

Post # 696 and 697 seem like Qman-Flay buddying.

Brandi, if you're a Cop, just claim already so that we can lynch Darox and end this day.

^{At first I highly considered this to be said in a facetious tone. But now that I've thought about it, I can see some obvious role fishing here.}

If you were a Cop with a guilty on Darox, we needed your claim and result there to avoid getting to where we are today. Your 'certainty' is a strong, obvious Cop/Scum tell, and at the time I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Earlier in the game, Qman

suggested that he felt there was definitely a roleblocker that was 'not armlx'.

Flay quickhammered bazza, but not Darla. Because Darla's circumstance does not involve a power role. [/sup]

Buh?

How would I know Darla wasn't a power role?

Because she said so? And Bazza had already claimed Townie, as well; I don't get what you're trying to imply here.

All in All, Mr.Flay and Qman are the only ones who have brought up the idea of a cop, and seem to believe that there IS a cop. As the uninformed minority, and with how things are going, I have found it hard to believe that there is a cop. But based on my suspicions, which I am very confident in, it seems as though there is one.

Qman's already touched on this, but you're stretching here. What IS accurate is that scum pretty much knew the setup already. Since the Doctor died N1, The Mafia Roleblocker (if s/he exists) knows there's a Cop, and if there's no Mafia RB, then the Mafia know

for certain

that there is no Cop. This actually argues against Qman being part of a Goon+Roleblocker group, because if that was the case they could have blocked armlx, killed someone else, and framed armlx for the D2 lynch easy-peasy.

So it's LyLo, Brandi. Who do you think the Cop is?

[Mr. Flay]

A couple of things from the end of D2/start of today:

- Brandi's behaviour is a bit suspect. There's her 'feeling' that Darla will turn up town (didn't she do something similar with Bazza on Day 1?), possibly indicative of the mafioso's knowledge of roles. Then the switch to voting for Darla. Post 739 still has Darla just about pegged as town:

I said it before and I'll say it again, I feel like shes a female bazza. Really scummy but actually town.

and then the hammer comes in 741. That's a swift turnaround. What's more, she criticises Flay in her most recent post for a similar turnaround D1.

If I didn't feel the same way, I'd say this was distancing/bussing by caf19.

That said, Brandi does make some decent points in 765, which should be responded to.
...
On top of Brandi's example, there's 645, where Flay intimates Qman as a potential scum partner for the hypothetical Darla-scum.
(snip quote)
By post 716 (a week later), Darla is still scum but Qman is now town:
(snip quote)
Flay, what were the reasons for this turnaround? As far as I can tell, he only answered one of your questions in the mean time.

I think you're overstating 645 a bit. At that point, Caf19, Qman, and Darox were voting for Darla. Darox' alignment we now know, and even then I wasn't buying him as scum. Since you asked what was up with Darla's nonchalance on the face of L-1, that meant it was slightly more likely that Qman had jumped on his partner (2nd vote, even) to distance himself. But it was more of a statistical case than an evidence-based case (see post 649 later that same page). I asked Qman to comment because i wanted to judge his reaction; if he'd been all "What, I'm not her partner, that's the stopidest thing I've ever heard,

Vote: Flay

", that would have been telling, yes?

Instead, in post 650 Qman very clearly outlined his case against Darla.

And I agreed with much of it!

So hence my retracting of any real thoughts about Qman being Darla's scumbuddy, by the time 716 rolled around... and remember that my questions in post 698 were invalidated because I'd been reading things wrong.

As for the case on me, there's not much I can say to it as it's still rather vague...

Mostly, I suspect you for lurking your way through D2, seeming to offer only superficial critiques, and frequently trying to get other people to answer questions rather than offer your own opinions. It's not terribly specific because there's not a lot to build on, but I've already mentioned post 713.

[Mr. Flay]

I still think the Darox Nightkill holds the key to our scum group here.

One possibility is that it was done to frame Brandi. But why? Is Brandi so dangerous a voter that she needs to be discredited? I don't believe so, but if, it implicates (obviously) myself and Qman. Needless to say, I don't find that case to hold much water, but it would explain why Qman keeps mentioning power-role tells. On the other hand, I have a hard time believing town-Qman would even bring up the DaroxCop-tell if he was the one who killed him.

If I flipped town?

That would be extremely difficult for me as it would pretty much blow up my main theory and all associated side-plots. I'd still be gunning for suspect no. 2, and that would be our enigma, caf, at this stage.

This essentially telegraphs that town-clammy would be out to sea D3 if Darox flipped town. It also clears caf19 somewhat, as it could be used to frame him. Worst case scenario for me today is a Qman+clammy scumpair, as I'm unlikely to lynch either of them today, and Darox' death would actually frame both of the other pro-town players.

Let's try a little analysis here...
[mrow]

Day Two Suspects Of:

[col]

Flay

[col]

Brandi

[col]

caf19

[col]

clammy

[col]

Qman

scummiest

[col]

Darla

[col]

Darox

/

Darla

[col]

Darla

[col]

Darox

[col]clammy/Brandi [col]Brandi[col][col]clammy[col]caf19[col] [col]caf19[col][col]

Darox

[col]

Darla?

[col]

Darla

[col]

Darox

[col][col][col][col]

Darox

[col]clammy[col][col]Qman/Flay/Brandi?[col][col]Flay/caf19?

towniest

[col]Qman[col][col][col]Qman?[col] Did I miss anybody's "List^TM"?

What struck me here was that, caf19 never even really mentioned Qman, myself, or Brandi yesterday in his posts. There's a bit of Brandi-defending on 594 from Darla's "N1 was long" 'case', and some joking about both of them seeming scummy in post 600, and that's

it

. I know he was V/LA some of the time, but no commentary at all on Brandi jumping her suspicions around like a scalded toad? Weird, and possibly scummy, especially with today's posts in mind.

Again, Darox wasn't clean on ANYBODY's book, so why kill him? That's the only thing keeping me from voting Brandi right now...

Qman, two questions:

I'm feeling the Darla claim. It has the exact same tone I tend to have on my posts when i'm town and getting lynched.

more voting hops. still not willing to hammer darox. would still vastly prefer a darla lynch.

Why no mention of Brandi here? Why did you back off your earlier gut about Darla's claim?

[Qman]

Qman, two questions:

I'm feeling the Darla claim. It has the exact same tone I tend to have on my posts when i'm town and getting lynched.

more voting hops. still not willing to hammer darox. would still vastly prefer a darla lynch.

Why no mention of Brandi here? Why did you back off your earlier gut about Darla's claim?

These two answers dovetail togethere:

No mention of Brandi - I'd tried it bring about pressure on Brandi and it just flatlined around post 684. No one else really seemed to try to pressure her so it went no where. By post 722 it was back to darox and Darla being L-1, except I was the odd vote, not you this go around.

I was speaking in the context of "Oh great, Brandi went no where, Back to where we started." I hate to sound like a parrot here but a Brandi wagon wasn't seeming to form and we'd had pages of stuff come up. I was trying to say if I had to choose between Darox and Darla I would NOT lynch Darox. When it came too just those two people, a Darla lynch was vastly (read about 200%) more prefered to a Darox lynch. With that given, and my reasoning for Darox being our best shot for a cop, I wasn't about to lynch him, and would lynch Darla instead if I felt I needed to, ala the Bazza hammer.

I will mention I had ample ample time to hammer Darla, as I logged in several times between my post 722 and Brandi's Out of the Blue hammer in post 741, and didn't, almost all of the reason for not doing so being that gut feeling.
(Side note) Also looking back I find it really odd that Brandi unvoted in post 736 with this statement

Though I'm pretty sure Darox is safe, unvote for now. Perhaps my main deal with Darox really is one of those 'gut feeling' things. However, Does anyone have an actual CASE on ANYONE? I think some information needs to be brought out in the open so we can all get our heads clear, and know what we're doing. I guess when I get time I'll back track and try to re-analyze everything. [30 pages OMG... >.<;]

Then hammered Darla 5 posts later without much of a reason.

I was pretty startled (and scared darox bit it) when I saw it was Night 2 when I went to my quick topics. At that point nothing I could do though.

[Qman]

By the way i just noticed this and before anyone starts screaming over it, "quick topics" is what I call the "click here to see your games" (aka watched topics) button.

Anyways the ceremony is at 7PM PST tomorrow. I will be in Aruba for the two weeks following that and return on the 8th of Sept. My net connection will be slim to none, as I don't feel like being castrated on my Honeymoon for being online to much.