Newbie 656 Game Over!

[lifeofpie]

I was looking at page five, and it occurred to me that Fenchurch's writing style and tune seem to change dramatically while under pressure. I suppose it could just be me.

[Fenchurch]

Hmm. I'm also disappointed that the game has stalled somewhat, and I know I haven't posted much recently myself, but as I said before, I'm hesitant about pushing in a new direction whilst the player I find most suspect is still AWOL.

I also haven't had a lot of free time recently, but here there is a bank holiday weekend coming up soon, so hopefully then I will have the opportunity to do a re-read and post some more thoughts and questions, if not before. I'd invite anyone else to do the same, especially since if you don't agree with me about Sion. You don't have to wait for something to happen, you can ask questions - demand that other players respond to you

As for my posting style having changed dramatically, lifeofpie, I can't say I'm aware of it myself, but I suppose that goes without saying. The only difference I can see is my change from commenting on other players behaviour, to defending my own

[chapter 5]

As for my posting style having changed dramatically, lifeofpie, I can't say I'm aware of it myself, but I suppose that goes without saying. The only difference I can see is my change from commenting on other players behaviour, to defending my own

I agree with you here, Fenchurch, which is why I don't like lifeofpie's case. It's absurd to assume that such a shift in posting direction could be attributed to scum.

That said, I still think you're mafia.

[RandomGem]

As for my posting style having changed dramatically, lifeofpie, I can't say I'm aware of it myself, but I suppose that goes without saying. The only difference I can see is my change from commenting on other players behaviour, to defending my own

I agree with you here, Fenchurch, which is why I don't like lifeofpie's case. It's absurd to assume that such a shift in posting direction could be attributed to scum.

That said, I still think you're mafia.

I'd agree here too - Fenchurch's posts do in fact get longer after the pressure, but who wouldn't spend more time defending themselves?

[thinktank]

Being verbose under a pressure isn't a good thing. Often times it manifests into defensive posts which are a scum tell.

[NabakovNabakov]

Mallick replaces Sion!

[Fenchurch]

Being verbose under a pressure isn't a good thing. Often times it manifests into defensive posts which are a scum tell.

I disagree with this. Being defensive isn't a scum tell, surely no player wants to be wrongly lynched? To quote a signature I have seen on these boards:

Things that are not scum tells:
Having the balls to drop a (well reasoned) hammer
Being defensive
Bandwagoning
Being Angry

Although I agree that there are probably

some kinds

of defensive behaviour that are scummy.

As for why my defending posts are longer, that's because it's easy for me to explain my own actions: I

know

why I made them. But I'm finding that it's harder, and more time-consuming, to correctly analyse other people's actions, and decide how to respond to them.

And welcome, Mallick!

[Fenchurch]

Hmm.. I'd like to qualify my understanding of Elias the thief's signature that I quoted. To me, all of those things

could

be scumtells, but are it entirely depends on the circumstances.

[NabakovNabakov]

I'm going away until Tuesday, but

Shaft.ed

has agreed to step in and mod while I'm away.

*Begins a slow clap in the hopes that everybody else will join in*

[thinktank]

* joins in clap.

[Artem]

Verbose defensive posts under pressure are not necessarily a bad thing, as they provide more content and more chance for scum (if the person defending themselves is indeed scum) to slip.

[shaft.ed]

Hello, I'm your temp mod. I like to use blue, and enjoy long walks on the beach.

[ShadowLurker]

Prod on Drifter please.
Replacement for Sion (Mallick?) please.

Defensiveness isn't scummy but it's up to you whether you want to believe the change in Fenchurch's writing style is just merely defensiveness.

[RandomGem]

Gah, so many different opinions on defensiveness...
Are these statements made as IC's or as players?

[shaft.ed]

prods sent

[chapter 5]

Being verbose under a pressure isn't a good thing. Often times it manifests into defensive posts which are a scum tell.

From games I've read, those defensive posts just tend to show themselves at the first hint of any action.

[lifeofpie]

Being verbose under a pressure isn't a good thing. Often times it manifests into defensive posts which are a scum tell.

I disagree with this. Being defensive isn't a scum tell.

I think think (I love that name) meant that you will start making posts that are long and scummy, not that all long posts are scummy.

[Drifter]

What up guys? (please reply to this if you ARE mafia)

[thinktank]

Going to be out of town this weekend. Be back sunday.

[Fenchurch]

So, I've read the thread again.

Part of me wants to post more about how I disagree with chapter 5 about activity being "good" or "bad"... but I feel I've probably polarised the argument by labouring my point so much, and will leave off it for now. At any rate, although chapter 5 says "I have admittedly been lurking this game" (post 145), I don't especially find this to be the case, and I think your strong convictions are in themselves an indicator of both playstyle and alliance, which makes up for any lack of posting.

---

Anyway, on to something new.

Being verbose under a pressure isn't a good thing. Often times it manifests into defensive posts which are a scum tell.

I disagree with this. Being defensive isn't a scum tell.

I think think (I love that name) meant that you will start making posts that are long and scummy, not that all long posts are scummy.

lifeofpie, you misread me. I wasn't commenting about long posts, but about defensiveness, and my disagreement still stands. thinktank says "defensive posts are a scum tell", I say they aren't. Certain types of defensiveness, probably, but definitely not just defensiveness in general.

Also, that aside, I think that there is something odd in the wording of thinktank's quote. It could be re-written as "being verbose is bad, because it may result in a scum tell". For one thing, does this mean that it may result in a scumtell regardless of whether the player is scum or not? And lifeofpie's interpretation seems to accept this: "if you are verbose, you will start making posts that are long and scummy".

Verbose defensive posts under pressure are not necessarily a bad thing, as they provide more content and more chance for scum (if the person defending themselves is indeed scum) to slip.

Artem's phrasing makes sense: being verbose could be good, as a player revealing more about themselves could accidentally reveal that they are scum. In comparison, thinktank's post comes across a little like a warning - don't be verbose, or you may make a scum-tell. And who would this be a warning for?


I'm also aware that thinktank has posted very little about his suspicions during the game, and even in the above post about defensiveness supposedly being bad, he doesn't actually comment on my defense posts at all. Back in post 143, his reasons for not voting yet:

Why would I vote purely based on someone else's conclusions? I agree that would be quite scummy. Right now I've only given a scum meter of who I think is scummy. I will vote for people who I think are scummy as the evidence starts to pile up and I can form my own conclusions.

So you wouldn't vote based on someone else's conclusions, but you are happy for your "scum meter" to to be based on them. Why can't you post your own conclusions, and vote based on that? At what point will you have enough evidence?
I know this probably comes back to what I said I wouldn't talk about, but waiting to for evidence to pile up on other people, whilst not allowing the opportunity for any to pile up on you, is pretty scummy behaviour.

Pending Sion's replacement posting in, and to demonstrate my point about voting based on your current convictions:

Unvote, Vote: thinktank

---

One more thing from my read-through:

Unvote, Vote: Sion
For an awesome avvie. (although I did like Nausicaa and the valley of the wind)

think (I love that name)

On the other hand, maybe we should kill Sion because his lack of activity hurts the town.

The first two quotes could be buddying up, and the third one is a pretty anti-town suggestion. Inactive players get replaced, which is not ideal, but much better than wasting a lynch based purely on inactivity and not scumminess.
On the other hand though, lifeofpie seems keen to be noticed, so I'm not really sure what to make of this.

[Fenchurch]

Bah...

l'esprit de l'escalier

time again, or something like it. I realise that the previous post may come off as a little too aggressive, given that there's been speculation recently about whether my own posts are scummy or not. I'm finding it hard to judge what people's current opinions of me are, and was pretty much carrying on as usual, rather than adjusting my behaviour so as not garner as much attention - probably a mistake, since in my eyes, it is that type of thing that drew suspicion to me in the first place.

If you wish to judge me on my previous post then of course I can't stop you, but I would ask that at least, people address the points I raised in it as well.

[lifeofpie]

@Fenchurch: Buddying up? If you don't like compliments, I'll change my tune.
Your avatar sucks horribly. The angle of it is all wrong, plus I hate that hat. Also, your long posts are exceedingly annoying.

On a serious note, you are still misunderstanding me. I think think (I hate that name ) is trying to say that long, defensive (there, I said it) posts have a habit of being scummyer than the shorter ones. Which I think I will agree with, just based on my knowledge of the human psyche (which is small).


Yay for parentheses! (I'm not sure that I spelled that right)

[lifeofpie]

EBWOP: Wow, that was a long post. How do you do those, Fen?

[Fenchurch]

EBWOP: Wow, that was a long post. How do you do those, Fen?

It's the quote boxes! But yeah... I don't know. I honestly tried to condense it, and I couldn't find a way to make the same points using less words.

And lifeofpie, I do feel a bit bad for the buddying up accusation, because I don't really want to criticise you for being friendly. But, well, this is mafia, and I don't think such things should go unnoticed...

[Artem]

I think I'm going to put Drifter at L-2. Not only his "The mafia don't know if I'm a power-role" backtracking after claiming vanilla borders on fishing, his general unhelpfulness and lack of scumhunting rivals that of RandomGem.

Unvote; vote Drifter

Some questions for Drifter:
1. Why did you ask about a deadline in 134, when you were already told the answer in 75?
2. Who do you find most suspcious? Why?
3. What is the meaning/purpose of your 192? The only thing I see coming out it is major WIFOM.