Who are you calling a “joke”? I am deadly serious about being the spirit of mafia.In post 73, the worst wrote:Well played - I wasn't dedicated enough to that joke.
In post 74, Jake The Wolfie wrote:Welcome to SafiaMcum!
Who are you calling a “joke”? I am deadly serious about being the spirit of mafia.In post 73, the worst wrote:Well played - I wasn't dedicated enough to that joke.
In post 74, Jake The Wolfie wrote:Welcome to SafiaMcum!
oh it just collects and makes posts atm but it's a nice start i hopeIn post 17, Cabd wrote:So, iirc Psyche has an API to do this specifically for MS. I've been debating ingesting it into a BI tool and doing some analytics.
I vote to refer to these posts and define them to be «The Spirit of Mafia» for all future discussions on this forum
In post 83, Andycyca wrote:I vote to refer to these posts and define them to be «The Spirit of Mafia» for all future discussions on this forum
Are you against this entire style or just the automation of it?In post 78, Ramcius wrote:"Player X said "phrase" 3 times a scum, never as a town, so player X is scum for saying "phrase" here"
That was how Mulch got executed in Beneath the mask game, can you guess what alignment he flipped? We all have habits, we all say things as one alignment and not other, maybe we say something much more often as one alignment than other. It's just a matter of finding our tells by running uncommonly used words/phrases
I'm against meta altogether tbf, but in current state it isn't that threatening. It's not really feasible without automation, so if anyone is crazy enough to try this manually, they can do itIn post 85, Gamma Emerald wrote:Are you against this entire style or just the automation of it?In post 78, Ramcius wrote:"Player X said "phrase" 3 times a scum, never as a town, so player X is scum for saying "phrase" here"
That was how Mulch got executed in Beneath the mask game, can you guess what alignment he flipped? We all have habits, we all say things as one alignment and not other, maybe we say something much more often as one alignment than other. It's just a matter of finding our tells by running uncommonly used words/phrases
The answer is to democratize it in some way, such as by making it trivial for everyone to run.In post 32, Cabd wrote:Time.In post 25, Ramcius wrote:Equalizer of what?
I used to keep a literal metabinder of things that majorly differed between an individual's town games and mafia games, because I had the free time to read almost every game onsite.
Turns of phrase, post count, post density, post timing... there were a LOT of super-specific tells like that.
But now? I'm a father and I work full time and I don't have the time to do that. Automating part of that process, and then applying human logic to the patterns it detects? That could be incredibly useful.
And it'll march the arms race along further. But, you cannot stuff the genie back in the bottle. The working solution to countries obtaining nuclear weapons was never "That's unfair, you should stop doing that"; just as it was for the shotgun (Famously detested by the Germans during Trench Warfare) or the longbow, or the battering ram, or any other weapon in human history.
In post 40, Ramcius wrote:You don't need sophisticated AI, you simply need a tool to run all person's games looking for specific word/phrase and how often person said it as either alignment. Good luck fighting this meta with arguments like "meta isn't accurate/sucks" or "you can't use meta from 1 or few games", you can't even alter meta as a scum providing only examples that benefits your agenda - software will provide absolute meta. Like I can do some things and bust my ass covering my own scum meta, but I can't do shit, if townies will be confirmed as a town and I'm dead to PoE.In post 38, Syryana wrote:You seem to be under the entirely mistaken impression that meta only helps town. Scum, armed with the same information, can easily use small differences in play to get miselims and cause other shenanigans.In post 35, Ramcius wrote:You forgetting really important part of the mafia - balance. Improving town with software assistance isn't the answer you're looking for. You'll have to balance games somehow to make up for scumIn post 32, Cabd wrote:Time.In post 25, Ramcius wrote:Equalizer of what?
I used to keep a literal metabinder of things that majorly differed between an individual's town games and mafia games, because I had the free time to read almost every game onsite.
Turns of phrase, post count, post density, post timing... there were a LOT of super-specific tells like that.
But now? I'm a father and I work full time and I don't have the time to do that. Automating part of that process, and then applying human logic to the patterns it detects? That could be incredibly useful.
And it'll march the arms race along further. But, you cannot stuff the genie back in the bottle. The working solution to countries obtaining nuclear weapons was never "That's unfair, you should stop doing that"; just as it was for the shotgun (Famously detested by the Germans during Trench Warfare) or the longbow, or the battering ram, or any other weapon in human history.
The issue here isn't balance. The issue is how do these tools alter the mafia landscape and what quality of life improvements do they offer. Do people just use the tools to automatically win games? That's bad. It's also unlikely someone develops an AI sophisticated enough to do that. Automating things like vote counts and post history or meta? That's a convenience and I'm all for it.
Further, to Cabd's point, some of these tools already exist. They can benefit a small portion of players (i.e. the devs that made them) or they could be crowdsourced and available to all players if they choose to partake.
What makes you think that you can't simply adjust script to require just minimal effort to scan all games of a person?In post 87, tn5421 wrote: The software can only respond with what it knows. If you haven't painstakingly scanned every, say, Cabd game, the script may not have enough information to come to any meaningful conclusion.
I'm in favor of scripts that put the information in front of you and leave it to you to analyze it. I'm not in favor of scripts that do a lot of that analyzing for you.
See, Ythan, I don't like being called a nobody. That aside, most people have no real idea what they are talking, I mean, people, who post here, they have no real idea how that even might work or how it might look, so taking their opinion on what effect it might have on mafia is simply dumb.In post 89, Ythan wrote:There's still a not trivial step between crawling up those posts and analysis. Without that it's just a better search function. And nobody thinks that would be bad.
I feel the same way. On a related note how do you think it would work specifically?In post 91, Ramcius wrote:See, Ythan, I don't like being called a nobody. That aside, most people have no real idea what they are talking, I mean, people, who post here, they have no real idea how that even might work or how it might look, so taking their opinion on what effect it might have on mafia is simply dumb.In post 89, Ythan wrote:There's still a not trivial step between crawling up those posts and analysis. Without that it's just a better search function. And nobody thinks that would be bad.
For starters, I'm well aware that it wouldn't work on every person, but still, if you can reliably determine few players alignment in a game, it's already massive, imagine clearing people and turning them basically into IC or having free guilty or couple out of the blue and scum team can't prevent that from happening. I don't even want to imagine resurgence of trust tells "I only say X as a town, you can check it for yourself". Let's be real, we all have speaking patterns, we talk a bit different as a different alignment and we don't even notice that, matter is just picking up of these pattersIn post 92, Ythan wrote:I feel the same way. On a related note how do you think it would work specifically?In post 91, Ramcius wrote:See, Ythan, I don't like being called a nobody. That aside, most people have no real idea what they are talking, I mean, people, who post here, they have no real idea how that even might work or how it might look, so taking their opinion on what effect it might have on mafia is simply dumb.In post 89, Ythan wrote:There's still a not trivial step between crawling up those posts and analysis. Without that it's just a better search function. And nobody thinks that would be bad.
How though how specifically is this going to play out.In post 93, Ramcius wrote:if you can reliably determine few players alignment in a game