Yellowstone

[Hectic]

Votecount 5.4

[5] Not Voting:

DrippingGoofball, Marky Mark, Infinity 324, JacksonVirgo, Noraa

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-12 16:36:19).

Joint Mod ISO

[DrippingGoofball]

still keen to hear from DGB why they neglected to mention the gated aspect of their PR until the gate had actually kicked in.

I debated with myself about whether I should claim the gate or not since I outed myself so early in the game. Would it be useful to make the scum slightly more inclined to NK me, yes/no? I didn't see anything to make it swing either way so a lot of the delay was decision paralysis rather than strategy.

I'm off for some sup' and relaxation and I'll continue my case for Day 2 and beyond. Day 2 was short but Noraa's behavior was at a scummy peak - it'll be a good one.

[Infinity 324]

I haven't read up, I had a migraine today

@Mark: I don't think JV/DGB is possible because the setup wouldn't pass balance. Theoretically the other scum could be a roleblocker

[JacksonVirgo]

kes more sense in terms of explaining the no-kill N2,

I’ve already said why this isn’t the case. Noraa/Mark team?

Mark is awfully fencesitty even for someone that’s constantly saying how they think it’s me and DGB all the time

[DrippingGoofball]

Noraa's Day 2:

After JacksonVirgo claims the kill on Toogeloo, I realize that I may have stopped the kill by roleblocking Pig and announce it in thread that I may have some information, Noraa switches gears completely and claims to have fallen behind.

Is she in a stalling pattern waiting to see what we've got because she doesn't know how to position herself yet?

My god. so many posts.

I'll catch up tomorrow. too lazy.

truth be told

I'm not caught up

since like 20 pages ago or something

can y'all

stawp spamming.

I can't keep uppp

no shit its day 2 why tf would we mass claim?

can someone fill me in

on the important stuff that happened in the last like 20 pages or something?

Also, I was right about horsewoman and imma be snarky about it

[DrippingGoofball]

Jackson claims the kill first thing in the gamemorning, this is Noraa's ordering of probabilities:

NUMBER ONE

is scum randomly claims the kill.

LAST

is what actually happened.

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?

Jackson claimed responsibility for the Toog kill.

Ohhhh. Ok so possibilities are

1) Jacko is scum

2) Jacko and scum double killed toog (Trust me this is possible. Last time I was vig, the scums and me killed the same person and that's why the doc on that person didn't work)
3) Jacko is vig and something happened to the scum kill

[DrippingGoofball]

Mark is awfully fencesitty

That's classic Mark though.

[Noraa]

Ur really struggling to case me lol.

[Infinity 324]

Who's scum with noraa DGB? And why did you block guillo n2 over noraa?

[Noraa]

At this point, I'm waiting for Jacko to wake up from his dreams. If he doesn't wake up, even if we hit DGB's partner today, we will still lose tomorrow.

[Noraa]

Who's scum with noraa DGB? And why did you block guillo n2 over noraa?

Why'd she block anyone but me in general? She never really voiced a SR on pig or guillo yet her strong SR on me amounts to nothing. No votes no RBs.

[DrippingGoofball]

Noraa's Day 2 - throws spaghetti on MathBlade to see if it sticks:

Here MathBlade makes a post about being indecisive. Noraa aggressively jumps on him asking "how did this all CHANGE SO FAST?" which is an interesting accusation given that this is what she does as scum.

I am not sure if he’s scum or not. I kinda wanna see where this plays out. I think he probably is but am not like sure sure.

how did this all change so fast?

Noraa digging into a townie for misreading another townie:

I am not sure if he’s scum or not. I kinda wanna see where this plays out. I think he probably is but am not like sure sure.

how did this all change so fast?

It’s a bit antitown to say atm. Just trust me something is up and I am trying to figure it out.

I'll trust whoever I want to trust tyvm. I don't trust you for your stubbornness when I over and over said horse was town.

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Look at the self-contradiction.

Noraa claims to have townread MB because he had softed vig. Here is MathBlade vigorously pushing back that he's softing something else AND THAT DOES NOT RESTORE NORAA's townread!

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Oh I was softing but not that

Go for it.

Push me.

C’mon I dare you. Lol

TR disappear doesn't equal SR....

why are you so damn defensive?!!?!??!

Im not suspicious of you.

My reason to TR you is gone and now you are a null.

[DrippingGoofball]

Who's scum with noraa DGB? And why did you block guillo n2 over noraa?

I was already out as a RB and there was no way that Noraa was going to perform the kill given how I had been reading her.

As I explained earlier, I thought it might be more useful to confirm Guillotina being town.

In fact there was only one kill that night, and Guillotina should have been able to coast as conftown until end game. My plan should have worked.

But the masons and other players got it into their heads that there was some galaxy brain plot when Occam's Razor would have dictated that scum simply killed Flea that night.

Why? Maybe they didn't want Vax to be confirmed PGO; maybe they didn't trust Flea to target Vax? I don't know. But with hindsight and Guillotina having flipped town, we can be pretty confident that scum NK'd Flea.

[DrippingGoofball]

Noraa's Day 2 - a bit of claim stall:

Ur next on the claim train.

Summary given

Pedit: @nora

as in I need to claim rn?

who claimed before me?
if only like 2 people, I'm not claiming cuz that's stupid. I'm townie than most this plist

Not yet.

I'm at nora. Should the fairy claim

Pedit: lol, this was to DBG

VT.

That was a lot of hesitation just to claim VT, which would be

very unusual for an actual Vanilla townie.

She sounds flustered about having to come up with a fakeclaim,

my theory is that she is the scum PR.

[Infinity 324]

Who's scum with noraa DGB?

[DrippingGoofball]

Who's scum with noraa DGB?

It's between you and Mark.

[Noraa]

Who's scum with noraa DGB?

It's between you and Mark.

pfft

[JacksonVirgo]

Got home from work, chilled out, got screamed at, goats got out, had to chase them down haha.

Bad afternoon but I'll be able to post soon, please understand.

[Marky Mark]

I haven't read up, I had a migraine today

@Mark: I don't think JV/DGB is possible because the setup wouldn't pass balance. Theoretically the other scum could be a roleblocker

So let's say DGB is scum here (as you seem to think). That would mean that they would have to have some unusual modifier or JV would be dead if telling the truth.

I can see arguments for a DGB/JV scumteam here (no kill N2 makes more sense if claimed RB is scum) or for Noraa (quickhammer d4) but I'm finding it hard to see DGB being scum here without JV. Who do you see as being a potential partner?

I was looking at some mini-normals to get an idea of how many PRs in a 13p is typical and consider this game with masons - viewtopic.php?f=90&t=83883 where there are 3 masons w/ a mason+, no other TPRs and multiple scum PRs. If that's balanced, then are you trying to tell me that 6 TPRs here is balanced?? As that is what we would have if DGB/JV are town.

[Marky Mark]

kes more sense in terms of explaining the no-kill N2,

I’ve already said why this isn’t the case. Noraa/Mark team?

Mark is awfully fencesitty even for someone that’s constantly saying how they think it’s me and DGB all the time

I must be missing where you explain how a no-kill N2 makes more sense - unless you are talking about 3502 where you suggest a cross-kill is possible, but as scum knew that flea was going to target a PGO and die that seems an unlikely NK target for them. If I'm missing another post where you explain this better, please could you link me as I couldn't see it in your ISO when scannning through.

I hadn't given it much thought until infin mentioned it, but just seems so risky for scum!noraa to no-kill n2 as if DGB targets noraa or any other member of the scumteam for that matter then it will seem like a guilty due to the lack of kill other than flea (which is explained by the PGO). Conversely, scum!DGB can use a no-kill n2 to paint a guilty on guillo (as we have seen). Do you have an alternate explanation for this?

[Marky Mark]

Why? Maybe they didn't want Vax to be confirmed PGO; maybe they didn't trust Flea to target Vax? I don't know. But with hindsight and Guillotina having flipped town, we can be pretty confident that scum NK'd Flea.

Is this a slip? We know Flea visited Vax as Vax was able to confirm the contents of the picnic basket (after a bit of mod faff), so we know for a fact that Vax's PGO role killed flea. Yes, scum may have cross-targetted flea but this would be functionally the same as a no-kill.

[Marky Mark]

And yeah, I'm fence-sitting real hard rn because the DGB/JV solve makes more sense to me, but I would die inside a little bit if I let someone have a free pass for quickhammering D4 if they then turned out to be scum. I just think Noraa is competent enough as a player not to quick hammer by mistake.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm going to say this as blunt as I can, if you take it as an insult then I apologize but I'm not going to beat around the bush as this is my thoughts. If anyone expects me to eliminate my clear simply because you have a conspiracy theory that they're an Ascetic just because an Ascetic would fit thematically you are literally insane. Actually, I just remembered that the Motion Detector got a positive result on them, meaning they simply aren't.

Ok so I see why ur not willing to lim DGB but I'm going to try my best to work around that.

Objectively, for me anyway, it's better to eliminate outside of DGB so that's within you, mark and infinity. I am NOT confbiasing when I scum-read you, do you honestly not see that you force a 1v1 with my clear, and expect me not to scum-read you. I do not really care if you know you are Town, if it worked like that we would win from D1 every single game.

I hope you agree that out of DGB and me there has to be a scum. Don't be quick to assume it is me this time. Listen to me and try to understand where I am coming from.

I never said I disagreed that you/DGB contained one scum, I feel I've been fairly open about that even considering I called you out on contradicting this logic (which you started mind I add)

For the sake of thinking from ur perspective, lets assume the scum team is Noraa/Mark. DGB is a town RBer, Jack is town JOAT, and Infinity is a vt.

Ok so the moment this day started, I charged in with a DGB vote. Isn't this nearly suicide to 1v1 ur top TR? Like no shit I know DGB is your top TR. You made it clear as hell yesterday. Sure I didn't know it was because u investigated them but still, I don't start out attacking a town RBer. Scum 1000000000% attack infinity here. Think about it. How much easier would it be to get 1 singular vote on a vt than on a town RBer that the town JOAT thinks is locktown?

This is assuming you're scum. You don't necessarily need to convince me to win, you can win via convincing the other Town within Mark/Infinity to vote wrongly (aka on DGB) and you speed-hammer. You are also side-swiping Mark here and refusing to case them so you could also be swinging to them without making it seem like unnatural progression

Now lets flip to my perspective for a sec.

I came into this day with zero plan or anything. I was just like "Mom says DGB. DGB it is" Like there was nothing else to it at all.

I hope you understand this doesn't hold any weight, and it also shows that you're not really possessing a solving mindset, you're sheeping a dead Mason. If it was a random Town in a group of Townie people (such as myself/momrangal). Sheeping them

could

hold weight as they were killed instead of myself etc but they're a Mason so they were dead regardless and their death means nothing about their reads.

I started realizing you were town through your frustration. You felt genuinely upset and I believe you think DGB is town and me scum and if you believe that, you are town. I started seeing it pretty fast.
I came into this day not sure if anyone but DGB was scum. Yesterday, I had noticed a tone shift from DGB in that they were a lot more kind and meek which was the main reason I wanted DGB on the chopping block today.

Once I realized you were town, I also realized that the scum team cannot possibly be marky/infinity. I parked my vote on DGB and before I removed it, everyone had checked into the thread. If the team were infinity/marky, game would be over.

From my perspective, you, jacko, are obvtown. I am town. Marky/Infinity cannot logically be the scum team. DGB must be in the scum team even by poe.

Why is Mark/Infinity an impossible scum-team? If you actually have a solid reason to think they're both not together I can sort of see where you're at as you're trying to explain a mechanical lock-scum but honestly it just seems your trying to show that your reads have a progression rather than "Yeah they're lock-scum now because there's no room otherwise". Why Mark over Infinity though, you say you got lazy and can't case Mark and then you also say that you only had them as PoE scum so that again contradicts yourself, care to explain these? As it is right now if you can't explain your contradictions then you're always going to a step below my mech-cleared and also my ability-cleared DGB.

Why do you think I'm scum? I thought about this question a bit last night. I may be totally jackshit wrong but I'm going to say why I think you don't believe me. I feel like its out of fear of losing to scum!Noraa as I am known for good scum games and you have modded two of my flawless wins.

I think you're scum because you're not showing a naturally progressive posts, you are contradicting yourself to high heaven and you're also dead set right in the middle of a 1v1 with my clear. If you

are

Town in this position and assume I am the final vote between the pair of you, you'll be fighting an uphill battle so I am sorry if you're Town but just see my position and don't blast me if I make the wrong call, bad position I'm in.

But the thing is I want you to think about a few questions. Think about them and answer them yourself and then talk to me about it.
1) Is my every post in this game loaded fully with AtE and with the intent of manipulating every person in the game? (do not look at my posts. think from memory. can you think of a single time where I AtE'd here)

I do not remember if EVERY post in this game was, nobody's is so this is a hyperbolic question to make a statement yeah? Your posts regarding me being obvtown seems incredibly pocketing and when I am opposing your reads you discredit me by saying I am just wrong, stupid etc and then the next few posts you say how much you love me or whatnot. It's like you're trying to get me on your good side while pushing me into your agenda.

2) Am I efforting in this game? Is any of that effort going towards self preservation?

Efforting? You're pushing an agenda regardless of alignment so I would count that as efforting yes, and you are indeed self-pressing as you contradicted yourself to save your sweet ass when the 1v1 logic turned against you.

3) What are the benefits towards me 1v1'ing your top TR? (Trust me I know how tunneled you get. You wouldn't let go of me in 2177.)

I don't know what scum is planning but I've said two scenarios I think is probably the two situations occam's razor whispered into my ears. Either you're trying to get one Town within myself and the other within Infinity/Mark to vote wrong and then speed-hammer or you're willingly sacking yourself to give your buddy the advantage going into tomorrow. The first would lead to Infinity!Scum and the latter Mark!Scum.

4) Seriously, have I even been ATTEMPTING to look townie in general this game? (think about my refusal to read the game. calling masons stupid. calling everyone scummy.)

Yes you have been, you have also been blatantly saying how obvtown you are so you are definitely aware that you are trying or "are acting" townie.

5) Is my scum game this bad? (take a while for this one. I think you know the answer but refuse to accept it)

Obviously you're not bad, even if you're scum this game, you got this far after all. I know that you are better at scum than as Town, but that doesn't excuse all the logic where you're scum over DGB from my perspective. If you want to elim scum today, and you are indeed Town try and solve within Infinity/Mark and convince me that I should vote them over you.

[Marky Mark]

We have stacks of time and I want to try and get my head around N2, as working out which explanation there makes more sense could hold the key to this

--pedit: Just seen JV's wall but need to head out imminently. Will read up when I get home.

[JacksonVirgo]

And yeah, I'm fence-sitting real hard rn because the DGB/JV solve makes more sense to me, but I would die inside a little bit if I let someone have a free pass for quickhammering D4 if they then turned out to be scum. I just think Noraa is competent enough as a player not to quick hammer by mistake.

I am just going to say this quick. Do you honestly expect all three scum to make a combined gambit N1 and me immediately thrust into claiming it when the chances it goes wrong is GOD LEVEL's higher than chances it succeeds, that and I am generally hateful against Gambits as they fail 9 times out of 10.\

Also what's the difference between DGB/JV and a Noraa/[X] scum-team regarding the N2 kill. What makes it more likely it's the former with the missing kill?