Open 802: Jungle Oligarchy [Game Over]

[VP Baltar]

we have less than day left tho yeah? we gotta do this fast

If we end on bulge, I think we have plenty of time. Me convincing enough onto Klyne is probably a bit tight, but maybe doable

[Ahsoka]

I still think Bulge is the safest choice and is generally going to end up being faded this game anyways.

They have wolf equity with almost every player in the game, and a higher chance of being Mafia.

The kill list and kill will be able to give us some more info to work with anyways.

[VP Baltar]

I still think Bulge is the safest choice and is generally going to end up being faded this game anyways.

They have wolf equity with almost every player in the game, and a higher chance of being Mafia.

The kill list and kill will be able to give us some more info to work with anyways.

You're not wrong that bulge probably needs to go at some point. So that's a good point.

If he does flip mafia, we won't get a kill list though

[innocentvillager]

fine VPB, ive completed my ISO, you're probably town

[Klyne]

VOTE: The Bulge

You fucking people

[innocentvillager]

i will spiritually be on bulge and i won't let the day end in a no elimination

but i want to hear what VPB has to say first, it could be either of ours' last day

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I'm doing some big picture stuff looking at Klyne because I was one of his biggest defenders when I entered the game. The brashness and eagerness to fight with people felt pretty town to me, and he picked up on the Titus/Marashu bond that I did (though that ultimately turned out to be TvT, so that wasn't a good read in hindsight).

Klyne's voting record this game isn't great when you start to review it. If you go to his iso and search for "VOTE:", you will see he has 15 votes this game. He opens with an RVSish vote on Taly, and eventually switches to D1 vote on Titus...which becomes a big tunnel fest on Klyne's part. He is middle of the pack on the galaxii wagon and calls it "boring," which doesn't really feel as much like a bus, but IDK, it could be.

After the galaxii flip, Klyne votes PlusJOYED because their iso is "really offensive," but then also kind of just continues fighting with Titus and not persuading anyone onto a PJ wagon. Datisi was doing a lot more work to push PJ.

Then there is a bunch of lurking from Klyne and this is really when his contributions to the game start to die off. This is fairly early D2.

Klyne is first on DeasVail with no explanation and doesn't ever explain the vote actually now that I'm looking back. Egg on my face for helping argue that one, but yeah...shit he just lurks through the entire holiday and never said anything about voting out a townie.

Then we flip Murdercat and Klyne is again very late (hammers). If it weren't for the back to back kill nominations, I'd totally suspect klyne as mafia.

The rest of Klynes' votes are just bouncing back and forth between Bulge and Andy.


so the tl;dr version is that Klyne hasn't really done any effective scum hunting this game and has mostly been a dead presence in terms of pushing for his own causes. If his reads were more correct, I might give that more of a pass, but the scum wagons he was on weren't really his doing ... and he hasn't effectively pushed much of anything else.

[VP Baltar]

Feels like deflated scum and if you read MURDERCAT the way he mentioned Jackson in his read feels more exclusive and fits into the angle MURDERCAT was trying to represent. Again, MURDERCAT's D1 involvement was just high volume "solves" with shallow reads to accredit a townie mindset. His suspicion of Jackson was much more direct and despite everything he placed him at null, saying that he was worried that Jackson could be Titus' partner. When MURDERCAT was finally getting limmed ask yourself what bulge was doing.

This post directed at Bulge does feel like one of the few actual bits of scumhunting from Klyne in his iso post the D2 slump. If Bulge is mafia, then that might be more wolf indicative for Klyne. Let me look some more at Klynes' iso and try to find actual scum hunting.

[Klyne]

LOL

MORE CORRECT

I ALREADY CONTESTED THIS, I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST CALLING BM SCUM

THE ONLY MISTAKE I MADE WAS THE ON THE FOX

IM GETTING A LITTEL ACTUALLY PISSED LIKE FOR REAL CAPSLOCK MAD AT YOUR ONLY ARGUMENT BEING THAT MY PUSHES SUCKED, WHEN THAT IS CLEARLY FALSE LOL

[Klyne]

Mafia does not constitute true meaning; the game itself provides meaning. This can be interpreted in many ways. Scumhunting and Solving are just ways to ascertain meaning, but this is still left to interpretation. No matter how grand our posts seem to our own eye, not everyone will see it that way. You look at me and say I'm not scumhunting or solving, but how would you ever know this if you weren't me? The basis of your argument is simply that. An argument in which you have ascribed your own meaning onto me. You are only looking at my posts from a narrow field of vision. So why do I play this way? I do it because it's fun. I do it to express myself. I do it because I'm fucking town.

[Klyne]

Ahsoka said to me

"Klyne, why are you arguing with VPB in this way?"

Because shit gets me heated! The worst thing I could do as town is to deny my own true nature, and I'll keep reminding you of how fucking town I am so long as I remain in this game. Oh but you say! "Klyne, your actions say otherwise?" Suck my elongated [removed] and [expletive] and make sure you [christian website] while you're at it. I just explained to why that isn't true, now if you excuse me I currently have two scum that I have voted and I'd like to vote one more.

[VP Baltar]

You look at me and say I'm not scumhunting or solving, but how would you ever know this if you weren't me?

You haven't contributed to scum death in any substantial way. This is how I know. Words are wind, mother fucker.

[VP Baltar]

Scum is Taly/Marashu/Titus/Battle Mage/PLUSJoyed(?)

BTW, when Klyne says he called BM first, this is the post he is referring to.

I too could list half the game in brackets and be bound to have some scum in there.

[VP Baltar]

I mean at the very basic level his offense comes from the fact he isn't scumhunting.

^ in reference to Plus Joyed way back. Doesn't really square with Klyne's new position of "how can you know if I'm scumhunting, you're not me"

[Klyne]

Nah son I called him scum again in another post

Also

"You haven't contributed to scum death in any substantial way."

HELLO

I HAMMERED MURDERCAT
DOWNRIGHT FUCKING KILLED HIM
WHAT MORE CONTRIBUTION DO YOU WANT

[Klyne]

I mean at the very basic level his offense comes from the fact he isn't scumhunting.

^ in reference to Plus Joyed way back. Doesn't really square with Klyne's new position of "how can you know if I'm scumhunting, you're not me"

YOU GOT WAX IN YOUR EARS? APPARENTLY YOUR IDEA OF SCUMHUNTING IS PARAGRAPH POST DIALECT WANK

EVEN NOW, I AM SCUMHUTING. THIS POST IM MAKING

IVE BEEN TRYING TO UPDATE MY OPINION OF YOU FOR AGES! THIS IS PROBABLY THE 3RD OR 4TH TIME I CALLED YOU OUT AND NOW YOU WANNA PLAY? ABOUT FUKCING TIME

[VP Baltar]

Right now my working theory is

Bulge DV wolves
MURDERCAT and Taly for mafia

Hey









We agree

This is kind of interesting in hindsight. Wonder how accurate Titus was.

[VP Baltar]

COULD BE WRONG ON BALTAR DONT LIKE THE HYUEHUEHUEHUE I KNOW YOU'RE WOLF BOY BULLSHIT YOU WERE ALL BUDDY WITH KLYNE WHEN I DROPPED THE WAGONOMICS AND NOW ONE BAD LYNCH YOU THINK IM A WOLF? FUCK THAT NOISE

I'LL READ MURDERCAT

This is the beginning of a series of posts where Klyne has a VERY SIGNIFICANT reaction to me calling him a wolf. It really stuck out to me at the time because it's not like I was really banging the drum hard for his year, yet he snaps and spends several posts saying he wants to fight with me about it. IDK, could be OMGUS townie, but also could be wolf over estimating how much pressure he is facing.

[Klyne]

GET OUT OF THE ISO AND COME FIGHT ME BALTAR

WAR

[VP Baltar]

BE SEEING YOU SOON AFTER THE HOLIDAYS

You'll probably be dead by then wolf boy

This is literally the post that sets Klyne off about being a wolf. Hmm

[VP Baltar]

If I were a wolf here my best option were to nuthug townies and hope they kill mafia and I can sick as shit doing it

P. sure this is exactly what happened this game.

[Klyne]

BOOOORING

IT'S PAGETOPANDY/BULGE

IF YOU SOMEHOW CONVINCE TOWN TO KILL ME REMEMBER THESE FUCKING WORDS WHEN MY GREEN ASS SHOWS UP ON THE FLIP

AND JESUS FUCK

VOTE SOMEONE ALREADY THIS CIRCULAR LOGIC IS ANNOYING THE PISS OUT OF ME....

[Klyne]

NO MORE POSTS IF IM DEAD ITS YOUR FAULT IF IM ALIVE WE CAN ALL HAVE SEX ON THE FLOOR AND WORK OUT OUR FRUSTRATIONS

[VP Baltar]

I'm not paying attention too terribly from D1 when it comes to MURDERCAT, I said I was gonna READ HIM but opted to not do that

To show some humility, there has been a modicum of doubt in my own solves and at some points I was getting deflated a tiny bit. I just glanced over iamausername's MURDERCAT mini-case and I think it's. Fine. But goddamn. Cannot shake Titus and D2 was supposed to be the day I gave up on that. Multi-ball does fuck with how you're supposed to read self-preservation or even associative cases like that but I won't use it as an excuse. Anyways, I ended up with DV/PlusJOYED then people just went "YUP IV TOWN" and in my head I'm thinking "Well why fucking bother vote DV alternative kinda think he's scummy" now we're here

So where does my solve put me? Still not fucking with Titus but I am in a position where MURDERCAT thinks his only option of persuasion is to defend me and keep rolling with Yup Titus Scum. Believe me, I'm a fucking stubborn dipshit but not enough to see that MURDERCAT's actions do not conclude with what's he's saying. I'll end this brief thought here (and don't you worry, after your response I have more to say) and ask how you feel about the 3 MURDERCAT votes right now because something tells me there's a mafia/wolf in those 3 votes.

This one gives me a little bit of pause because it is town-spewy

[VP Baltar]

The way I look at it from town perspective is that you have normal scum and then Wolves who act like two SKs without the innate ability to kill.

SK/Indies act more independent and are harder to discern.

iv, how does this square with how you see Klyne's play this game? This is how he thinks about being a wolf.