Micro 994 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[MiniVirgo]

This is my main, just egoposting ignore me owo

Me too

Me three

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Kop is very similar to the word kpop

VOTE: Kop

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Also how many movies have actually referenced their title, my brain says not many but there probably are butt-loads

[MiniVirgo]

hi jackson xD

Oh hi ejji ahaha.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am

don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me

What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?

Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group

I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial

I'll have to think up the benefits vs cons of this but for now I'm against a full mass-claim.

[MiniVirgo]

That was JV

[MiniVirgo]

If minivirgo can vote because kpop then I can vote because sam and dean
VOTE: minivirgo

I see you're a gal of culture as well

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am

don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me

What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?

Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group

I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial

I dunno. I have always been completely against mass claims unless its really needed

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

I can see a massclaim being helpful later in game to lie detect and try to mechanically solve the game but as it is now I don't think town would gain much info whereas it would really help scum

As a mass-claim happens in nearly every single game that has power roles, this is a semi-useless post. Seems overly fluffy

[MiniVirgo]

I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am

don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me

What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?

Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group

I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial

1. says not to expect any sort of amazing activity
2. asks for a massclaim

alright buddy, the bar has been lowered.

??????????????

the question about the massclaim was serious lol
I feel like people rn are rejecting it jsut because “oh no massclaims aren’t great in most setups so they surely won’t help now”, without even bothering to stop for a moment and think

We have a few potential ICs in the game but besides that, absolutely no investigative power. That alone makes me really unwilling to lynch among that bunch

Bombs and super saints can be used to find scum as well. Lynching a supersaint can give us advantage over the mafia (lower their kill to lynch ratio)
so at first glance, claiming [vig, not vig] doesn’t seem like a bad idea

I’m NOT good at setup spec and I DON’T have a lot of experience with it, which is why I’m asking. Please think of it and provide me with an answer different from just “lol no”

lol no

In seriousness I'll give it a think after catching up

- JV

Also last post was mine too

[MiniVirgo]

All the females are town automatically as per the RC gambit

This hydra has a female and a non-binary, do we count owo

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

weirdly worried about raya versus ejj being tvt though, i don't sr either of them after reading their exchange.

Care to explain this further? Why is a TvT read worrying for you

[MiniVirgo]

Why are you worried about having two townreads

Mindmelded here, this can have a town-lean for now.

[MiniVirgo]

VOTE: kop

probably the best wagon till now

Because they did iioa? Explain this read

[MiniVirgo]

weirdly worried about raya versus ejj being tvt though, i don't sr either of them after reading their exchange.

Odd thing to be worried about? What's wrong with us being TvT?

I think this a general hole in nepenthe's logic. I need an answer to this question

Also I'm tinfoiling a Raya/nepenthe team simply because this post's tone seem somewhat too questioning. I'm going to wait for flips until I act much further on association reads but for now I need an answer.

VOTE: nepenthe

[MiniVirgo]

As someone who doesn't know that much about the pros and cons of mass claims, just trying to get my thoughts out even if they're basic

Mass-claims is generally a mid to late game thing once we've gotten a few flips and the benefits of claiming outweighs the benefits of the opposite. Right now doesn't seem like that's a great idea.

[MiniVirgo]

The setup contains 3-5 vigilantes, and 2-4 bombs or supersaints.

Bombs remaining unclaimed will make Mafia ultimately scared as to who to shoot and/or waste their utility with the factional doctor shot (which I didn't know existed until reading the mechanics again) or not shoot at all as a double down of framing a Vigilante claim and/or using the Mafia NK to secure a claim themselves . Although this can also double kill Town which doubles down as clearing PoE if the vigilantes are being scum-read. Bombs shouldn't claim and neither should Supersaints, and in extension Vigilantes claiming will out both and that's not good so I'm against a mass-claim. We can probably utilize Supersaints by getting select players to hammer as well to be fair.

This was midnight setup spec though so probably wrong, now I'm done with that and I'm on to reading people.

Come to think of it, from memory ejji yeeted iioa on us immediately and is reading Kop as scum because they are doing iioa as well?

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

As someone who doesn't know that much about the pros and cons of mass claims, just trying to get my thoughts out even if they're basic

Mass-claims is generally a mid to late game thing once we've gotten a few flips and the benefits of claiming outweighs the benefits of the opposite. Right now doesn't seem like that's a great idea.

I think I've only ever done last day mass claims and I can't think of many setups where I'd be comfortable with a D1 massclaim

Generally setups that are broken via follow the cop or similar stuff (where there's a doctor and a cop, the hidden doctor goes on the claimed cop to get at least one cop clear and likely more). I've never been in a game where a mass-claim earlier than day 3 was useful.

[MiniVirgo]

Why are you worried about having two townreads

Mindmelded here, this can have a town-lean for now.

Regarding this, I am not entirely sure if this is reliable as Raya also said it.

[MiniVirgo]

From JV

Keep forgetting

[MiniVirgo]

pagebottom

[MiniVirgo]

Wait fuck I got sniped

[MiniVirgo]

Spoiler:

I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am

don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me

What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?

Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group

I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial

I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am

don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me

What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?

Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group

I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial

1. says not to expect any sort of amazing activity
2. asks for a massclaim

alright buddy, the bar has been lowered.

??????????????

the question about the massclaim was serious lol
I feel like people rn are rejecting it jsut because “oh no massclaims aren’t great in most setups so they surely won’t help now”, without even bothering to stop for a moment and think

We have a few potential ICs in the game but besides that, absolutely no investigative power. That alone makes me really unwilling to lynch among that bunch

Bombs and super saints can be used to find scum as well. Lynching a supersaint can give us advantage over the mafia (lower their kill to lynch ratio)
so at first glance, claiming [vig, not vig] doesn’t seem like a bad idea

I’m NOT good at setup spec and I DON’T have a lot of experience with it, which is why I’m asking. Please think of it and provide me with an answer different from just “lol no”

no but on a serious note, i don't think massclaiming is beneficial in that if i'm understanding this correctly, it just sets scum up with an easier path on who to kill/needlessly sets town back a bit.

I can see a massclaim being helpful later in game to lie detect and try to mechanically solve the game but as it is now I don't think town would gain much info whereas it would really help scum

welp... ok
I should have read the entire thread before posting

that’s fair. I forgot about the kill PoE

I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.

Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.

vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town

I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.

Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.

vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town

The shots are at night so you mean everyone claims who they killed the next day? Scum would just have one of their own claim to be a vig and then claim the nk as their shot.

we’d know that there’s 1 scum there then
or that the mafia no-killed (with or without having info about the vig shot prior to that)

I THINK as long as we don’t talk about the future vig shots too much and just leave it up to choice, the mafia will have no reason to no-kill
So IF by chance all kills are claimed, we’ll get a PoE of 1 scum among the claimants anyway
That doesn’t seem like a bad deal to me

All of ejji's contentful posts before any actual non-iioa popped up and then they be hypocritical and then SR Kop for doing the same, or at least that's what I understood of their post.

[MiniVirgo]

Spoiler:

I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am

don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me

What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?

Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group

I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial

I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am

don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me

What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?

Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group

I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial

1. says not to expect any sort of amazing activity
2. asks for a massclaim

alright buddy, the bar has been lowered.

??????????????

the question about the massclaim was serious lol
I feel like people rn are rejecting it jsut because “oh no massclaims aren’t great in most setups so they surely won’t help now”, without even bothering to stop for a moment and think

We have a few potential ICs in the game but besides that, absolutely no investigative power. That alone makes me really unwilling to lynch among that bunch

Bombs and super saints can be used to find scum as well. Lynching a supersaint can give us advantage over the mafia (lower their kill to lynch ratio)
so at first glance, claiming [vig, not vig] doesn’t seem like a bad idea

I’m NOT good at setup spec and I DON’T have a lot of experience with it, which is why I’m asking. Please think of it and provide me with an answer different from just “lol no”

no but on a serious note, i don't think massclaiming is beneficial in that if i'm understanding this correctly, it just sets scum up with an easier path on who to kill/needlessly sets town back a bit.

I can see a massclaim being helpful later in game to lie detect and try to mechanically solve the game but as it is now I don't think town would gain much info whereas it would really help scum

welp... ok
I should have read the entire thread before posting

that’s fair. I forgot about the kill PoE

I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.

Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.

vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town

I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.

Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.

vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town

The shots are at night so you mean everyone claims who they killed the next day? Scum would just have one of their own claim to be a vig and then claim the nk as their shot.

we’d know that there’s 1 scum there then
or that the mafia no-killed (with or without having info about the vig shot prior to that)

I THINK as long as we don’t talk about the future vig shots too much and just leave it up to choice, the mafia will have no reason to no-kill
So IF by chance all kills are claimed, we’ll get a PoE of 1 scum among the claimants anyway
That doesn’t seem like a bad deal to me

All of ejji's contentful posts before any actual non-iioa popped up and then they be hypocritical and then SR Kop for doing the same, or at least that's what I understood of their post.

i cant understand if this is criticism or a scum lean hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Scum-lean

[MiniVirgo]

VOTE: kop

probably the best wagon till now

So you’re just voting what you think is the best wagon instead of going with your reads?

[MiniVirgo]

the point i was making, for those who missed it as well as those who committed quickly to misunderstanding it on purpose, is that it's concerning to me when i see people i both perceive as town putting pressure on each other. it feels like wasted energy fmpov. AMA!

I do not understand this

Why does it concern you that two people you perceive as town putting pressure on each other? It’s not like they would be confirmed town. There is always a chance that one or both could not be town

- Mini and the last one was mine too

[MiniVirgo]

VOTE: kop

probably the best wagon till now

Because they did iioa? Explain this read

yeah

nepenthe did sth weird but not necessarily scummy
T-bone would just ignore me
Raya seems to be just chilling in an adorable way xD
you’re doing something...
kop seems to want to do something serious but did something completely useless instead
and the rest just doesn’t exist

it’s a serious vote for a stupid reason.

I do not appreciate this shade

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

this is an interesting way to misrepresent what i'm saying. i do appreciate the creativity but i encourage you to try again if the endgoal is to stir me up for a reaction you can get a read off of.

If it's misrepresenting consider the entire Town misrepping you as nearly everyone agrees that it's a strange thing to say.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

the point i was making, for those who missed it as well as those who committed quickly to misunderstanding it on purpose, is that it's concerning to me when i see people i both perceive as town putting pressure on each other. it feels like wasted energy fmpov. AMA!

That generally happens in every game, why are you so concerned about it now, and especially this early.

[MiniVirgo]

This is a scumslip. VOTE: Kop

Because of the Doctor?

[MiniVirgo]

My last game was participated in 2019, it's been a while. You can read back through my games by all means.

Your last 3 games on site didn't have a doctor role

This is actually sampling bias, if you're using this to shade them I am on to you >:(

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Forget masons hydra with me the rest of this game.

I am no where near normally this good.

This is a straight up anomaly lol.

Starting to not like this slot tbf, this reeks of LAMIST

[MiniVirgo]

From where I am standing right now there should be at least one scum within { Nepenthe, Ejjinami, Kop, Flea }, I'm not confident both are in there, chances are they aren't.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Using the last 3 games of a player on site to check for mechanical information is not sampling bias. The assumption was "there is always a doctor role". The games sampled were of different categories, including a micro.

Except yes it's sampling bias regardless if the result is correct, which I don't know. If you've played around twenty games, with 15 of them having Doctor's in them. Yet the last three games do not have doctors. That's sampling bias

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

That was a scum replace out.

It’s ejjinami and T-Bone, lock it and load it

I can see Ejjinami as I've said before, not sure about T-Bone

[MiniVirgo]

brassherald replaces ejjinami.

Welcome, convince me against my read

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Hello, I am town, so easy game here.

VOTE: Shrapnel

Duh!

brass, how does it feel to replace into a scum slot?

I wouldn't know, as this isn't a scum slot.

Thanks for asking, though.

Not a big fan of this lamist behaviour right off the bat

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Hey Kop, if it wasn't your old games that made you think a doctor is an expected role in most games then why did you assume there'd be a doctor?

I assumed it was a basic setup just with the additions of bombs, supersaints and vigs/blank vigs.

It wasn't my old games that made me assume there was a town doctor in this game.

Hmmm I thought that was your defense

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I'm more interested in the players ignoring this scumslip honestly. It's the most significant piece of game action, and we have ~3 players with opinions on it, and just one asking about it?

If you're not voting Kop, why?

Yeah I am turning on it as we speak, not a big fan of Flea's sampling bias but yeah I thought Kop's defense was that they usually play games with doctors in it.

[MiniVirgo]

There's probably one scum within Kop/Brass/Nepenthe, I am hoping there's both as that makes my reads legendary. I was only those slots to hammer at this point.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I like T-Bones overall tone and their reverse-push on who

isn't

voting Kop as I don't really expect that coming from scum.

[MiniVirgo]

Using the last 3 games of a player on site to check for mechanical information is not sampling bias. The assumption was "there is always a doctor role". The games sampled were of different categories, including a micro.

Except yes it's sampling bias regardless if the result is correct, which I don't know. If you've played around twenty games, with 15 of them having Doctor's in them. Yet the last three games do not have doctors. That's sampling bias

- JV

I ain't diving though 3 years worth of games to eliminate this. If kop is willing to provide me a time frame I can reference then Ill be happy to look and compare.

Never said you should, just what you are doing IS sampling bias and thus is not reliable in and of itself.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Hello, I am town, so easy game here.

VOTE: Shrapnel

Duh!

brass, how does it feel to replace into a scum slot?

I wouldn't know, as this isn't a scum slot.

Thanks for asking, though.

Not a big fan of this lamist behaviour right off the bat

- JV

What am I supposed to say to N_M in that situation?

And jokes are jokes. I'm the Jokester. Famous Batman Archmemesis

First post isn't a reply to N_M

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Bruh

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Did I hurt your brain by asking you to think?

No I'm probably thinking you're too obvious to be scum alongside Kop.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Procrastination at it's finest:

Spoiler: Kop Doctor Games

LN223 - no doc
MN2095 - no doc
Mic880 - no doc
Mic879 - no doc
LN221 - no doc
MN2038 - no doc
MN2024 - no doc
O735 - no doc
Mic809 - DOCTOR
Mini1990 - no doc
Mini1956 - Sort of doctor
O717 - DOCTOR
O716 - no doc
O712 - DOCTOR
O710 - no doc
MN1984 - no doc
O705 - no doc
O707 - no doc
O697 - no doc
O696 - no doc
O693 - no doc

I think that should be enough to say that Kop should not be assuming a doc role and it's no longer sampling bias

Yeah that probably proves that they slipped tbf, whether or not that's a scum-slip is debatable, although I'm leaning towards that it is.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Anyone voting Kop and putting them at lolhammer range with N_M in the game should be considered a scum-claim, I am not taking this lightly

[MiniVirgo]

Anyone voting Kop and putting them at lolhammer range with N_M in the game should be considered a scum-claim, I am not taking this lightly

Why and how?

Because you’re known just to hammer without thought

-Mini

[MiniVirgo]

mutual reads from MV.

Will get this together when JV is free to discuss things

[MiniVirgo]

Anyone voting Kop and putting them at lolhammer range with N_M in the game should be considered a scum-claim, I am not taking this lightly

Why and how?

Because you’re known just to hammer without thought

-Mini

Why does that make the person scum?

I'm not letting anti-town behavior slip anymore, and anyone putting someone at E-1 knowing all well that you will hammer IS anti-town behavior. Even more so with Supersaints around

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I feel I go through this every game with you, it's anti-town as it seizes town discussion and any chances to redirect the elimination to a scum if Kop happens to be Town. It's day one we need to utilize what we can.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Why is it anti-town?

How can you even ask that?

-Mini

[MiniVirgo]

All 3 on Nep, why are you voting there?

I think one of nep/brass are scum with kop but am planning on voting Kop when it gets closer to EoD as N_M will hammer whenever.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I feel I go through this every game with you, it's anti-town as it seizes town discussion and any chances to redirect the elimination to a scum if Kop happens to be Town. It's day one we need to utilize what we can.

- JV

What if more discussion is bad?

How could it possibly be bad

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

VOTE: Saudade

Sod it. I think this is a buddy.

Refusal to engage with ANY of the Kop shenanigans, refusal to do anything useful, nep vote is a pressure vote on an inactive playe trying to get a town read when there's more than enough of us here to interact with.

Boom.

Lets do this.

Vote: Saudade

Choo choo

VOTE: saudade

I really don't care who it is, at this point we just need an elimination.

Day 1 reads are trash.

Wow the entire Kop wagon moved to Saudade.

Ok well I can do this now I guess VOTE: Kop

That makes me think if Kop is scum, their buddy is one of those three. Probably not T-Bone as scum wouldn't openly yeet themselves like this.
VOTE: Kop

[MiniVirgo]

I could do either or at this point. I can still see a window where Kop is town and made an honest mistake. It's 50-50 for me. If we end the day with a lim on either player, I think that ends up being a productive day, especially if we flip scum.

Although quite suspicious that the Kop wagon was sitting there for days, and you only jump on when we shift it to Saudade.

It was on E-2, or N_M-1, why are you shading here

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

UNVOTE:

Wtf no don't hammer, did I put it at L-1?

[MiniVirgo]

Turns out I did, yeah that's not happening yet
Also google search engine might be getting banned in Australia, fun times
- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Turns out I did, yeah that's not happening yet
Also google search engine might be getting banned in Australia, fun times
- JV

Or at least N_M-1

[MiniVirgo]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I dont know if it was at L-1, but I wasn't going to vote now, in about 6 hours though when I finish my day I'll slam the vote before checking out

Oh, okay

[MiniVirgo]

I don't like to admit this ahaha
But I do think we need a flip..
shut your face

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Okay so that's the Mafia kill almost 100% that got healed.

Two options
1) All charged vigilantes god-piled on the Mafia that got healed
2) No town is charged at all (is that possible)

[MiniVirgo]

I just assumed all vigilante's would shoot as to find how much utility Town had and also create a PoE/confirm themselves if the Mafia kill had been identified.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Yeah I think nepathe is a vig shot more than a mafia shot. Nepathe is a good target for smart big play. I could see a scenario where mafia reserve their shot for fear of bombs.

If it is a mafia shot, then that says something about the game state is very favorable to the current mafia team.

Why isn't the vigilante dead then

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

If that's the case, I feel like Flea might be a good elimination today. They only keep it the same if we were on the wrong course yesterday.

I just feel like Flea might have become something like a leader and probably would be the person happiest with no real change due to a night kill. It was also a kill off wagon, so there's likely at least one scum on wagon.

VOTE: Flea

I'm indifferent over over Flea or yourself.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I shot the nepenthe slot

So you're either blank or mafia, thank

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Nah, I believe all Vigilantes if they shot them, would die.\

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

This is troubling indeed. I'm not sure even NM would claim mafia this hard

I think it's relatively NAI as they're quite obviously shitposting

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Maybe mafia shot Nepenthe and used their doc ability? And then because mafia already shot Nepenthe then NM shooting Nepenthe did nothing because they were already dead or NM is just blank?

Wh would scum shoot nepenthe?

My only guess is to preserve the game state

Yeah this would be my guess

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I wouldn't have but its relevant to the discussion at hand. And I can't sit on this for if we were to mass claim on a future day. 'oh by the way guys I also targeted Nep N1 but didn't say anything until now'.

It wasn't *really* but alright

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

If that's the case, I feel like Flea might be a good elimination today. They only keep it the same if we were on the wrong course yesterday.

I just feel like Flea might have become something like a leader and probably would be the person happiest with no real change due to a night kill. It was also a kill off wagon, so there's likely at least one scum on wagon.

VOTE: Flea

I REALLY don't want to be a town leader, thats the thing. I have too little confidence in my game to take such a position and after driving the miselim yesterday, I certainly don't want to be in that position again.

Claiming will help nobody at this point, D1 will be reviewed because I know there was scum on that early.

I'm actually happy to drop a VOTE: T-Bone at this point prior to that.

You're not ever the town leader, at least in my eyes as I think one of Brass/You is scum as I've said earlier.
Although I do agree that mass-claiming only benefits scum.

Why T-Bone though? That seems somewhat retaliatory.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Who the fuck is Saudade again?

A sausage with 2 Ds

[MiniVirgo]

FIGHT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Uhh, what

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I actually quite like Raya's thinking, T-Bone has outgrown his walker...

VOTE: saudade

The posts there aren't sitting right with me.

I think DSausage is relatively cleared due to the NK. Could be wrong but if they were the elimination after Kop/nepenthe and nepenthe was shot BY the Mafia. It doesn't make much sense at all, unless scum lolshotted. In that case DSausage and Not_Mafia could be it, but here DSausage voted the so idk

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

T-bone doesn't seem to have done much independently yesterday imo. Today he's doing a little better but I think this is a good vote for now.

You say this as if you're voting T-Bone, in which you aren't.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Which while is it an indictment on town!MV... it falls in line with what good scum play might look like

This doesn't make much sense. You say it's indicative of town!MV yet say I am scum because of it.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Without looking, can you summarize their reads or major stances taken this game?

Can you summarise DSausage's reads. Or Brass'
Actually do this, I want to see if you're trying to pull this out of your ass aha

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

With 4 days left I am not claiming yet. Also off to work so bye fam talk soon, busy few days for me.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Actually I am pretty solid on scum!brass now because of them sheeping right here

VOTE: Brass

[MiniVirgo]

If Brass is scum, Flea is likely Town

Also fyi my hydra buddy is kinda out of it for this game, I am trying to convince them to play more.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Thoughts on Brass voting Saudade last round? That and PoE are pointing to them being scum for me

I would have to look back to see when exactly they voted them, I don't recall them specifically voting them at all. I just know they were speed-wagoned

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Without looking, can you summarize their reads or major stances taken this game?

Can you summarise DSausage's reads. Or Brass'
Actually do this, I want to see if you're trying to pull this out of your ass aha

- JV

Saudade has been very clear in wanting to eliminate Not_Mafia because he views him as negative utility. Yesterday he was on Nep scum and not much else tbh (except maybe starting his anti-NM fever)

Brass is currently voting you and generally following along with what I'm saying in regards to Raya, Saudade, and Flea this day phase. Yesterday he didn't do much except vote Kop.

EzChamp

Anyway, a series of scummy posts highlighted by this one I am responding to atm, ironically enough.

It might be confirmation bias, but I feel better about this vote after this page.

Brass seems to be pocketing you hard here
- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Alright imma try and get into this game a little more

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

How convenient

This

- jv

[MiniVirgo]

I'm just going to claim now since we are at NM-1, I'm a soup Saint. So like town hammering me is a really bad idea

OK so who do you want to hammer you, and who do you think is scum?

Also I'm pretty sure as known as NM is, they ain't the type to potentially self hammer... right?

I am going to wait to say anything about this until they claim who they want to hammer them.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Also supersaint is what mafia should be claiming right?

Yeah this was my general thought process, either that or Bomb if they thought they could get the wagon off of themselves to stop charged vigilantes.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Oh if we lim Brass I'd love MiniVirgo to hammer then.

I would if push comes to shove but I'm currently voting them and I'd rather N_M or Flea to hammer them. Preferably N_M as they're the hardest to solve

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I'll hammer

They're willing to hammer so that's also a plus, I think Brass is just scum here regardless but yep.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

dont let him hammer

Were you not just wanting to elim them?

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

We still have 18 hours left fyi

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Fucking hell. Intent to NM hammer.

Why are you cursing instead, I would have expected you to push me to hammer them at least a little bit.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Is there any use in N_M claiming by the way?

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I already claimed

Oh right you claimed vigilante yeah?

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Actually nothing's happening and I doubt anything

will

happen prior to the flips so for what it's worth I wouldn't mind a hammer right now.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

In my nightmares...

That's a tad rude >:C

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

going v/la for the foreseeable future, mini should be right to continue though

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I cant access the hydra account right now but do not hammer, I think we need a mass-claim before making a decision.

To keep this in this slots ISO I am quoting this.

Also fyi I have a driving lesson in an hour so I can't post.

[MiniVirgo]

Flea the Magician has been killed last night! Fae was a:

Spoiler:

SuperSaint

I can post for a small bit
--
It's probably safe to say that there's no charged vigilantes.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I killed Flea

So where would the mafia kill have gone? There's very little chance that they no-killed.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Holy hell the scum desperation to get a Lim. Feels like maybe Raya is the correct solution?

Actually, I think it has to be Not_Mafia at this point. Claiming both kills. Not_Mafia + Raya? idk

DECISIONS

Quote the desperation.

--

Completely different topic but scum is probably all in T-Bone, N_M and Brassherald.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Claims so far

Flea - Dead SuperSaint
Kop - Dead Vigilante
Raya - Unclaimed
brassherald -> SuperSaint
DSausage -> Unclaimed
nepenthe -> Dead Bomb
Not_Mafia -> Vigilante
T-Bone -> Vigilante

[MiniVirgo]

We are a bomb, I was lowkey hoping I could stealth end-game to at least make a tie if we goofed our victory away but I think this is pretty close to a default win imo. Raya is town-telling to me which I will try and explain soon, DSausage is cleared via NKA and with two scum alive. We have a PoE of three, T-Bone, Not_Mafia and brassherald.

The PoE

We can utilize the supersaint claim to its full extent I believe. It's currently a 2v4 if I am not mistaken and that means if we use that poe above and have one of N_M/T-Bone hammer brass I think it's pretty safe to say that at least one scum gets yeeted that way, making it a 1v2 or a 1v3 tomorrow assuming all goes well. If I am wrong about one of my reads in Raya/DSausage, I think it would be Raya as DSausage as scum makes zero sense so that makes it a 50/50 in a vacuum to eliminate scum. Assuming town!brass (as if scum brass these odds are pointless), those odds plus reads would probably make the choice >50% chance we'd hit scum today. I will have to re-read their posts in order to choose who I personally want to hammer but tbh having Boner hammer would likely not work well if N_M is not on-wagon or we speed-yeet with N_M not online or something.

Pseudo Deadline

What needs to happen for town to keep the chaos to a minimum is creating a type of pseudo deadline, what I mean by that for example is making a pseudo hammer of 24 hours before the real deadline. If we decide on one of N_M or T-Bone hammering, if our chosen hammerer does not hammer before that pseudo deadline, we can then eliminate the hammerer as they are likely scum wanting to not eliminate the supersaint claim and to push us into a worse LyLo

No-Yeet vs Supersaint

If we no-yeet somebody today, assuming one kill tonight like the following nights: we will end up in a 2v3. If we eliminate mafia and saint!brass we end in a 1v2 and if we yeet mafia!brass we end in a 1v3. Though we also risk eliminating two town and losing the game. 1v2 > 1v3 > 2v3 in my experience so I *think* the play is to make a PoE hammer brass. Also I am fairly certain scum will kill me tonight as otherwise scum should instantly lose/tie as me alive in parity means a tie so that removes any WIFOM scum can do with the NK.

Thoughts?

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

The fact that MiniVirgo is so confident that Brass is scum but is unwilling to risk a hammer says it all. Their plan hinges on a Brass scumflip. But they aren't willing to risk a hammer? The game is over if Brass is town....UNLESS MiniVirgo is scum. town!MiniVirgo who truly thinks Brass +Bone or NM is scum should be volunteering to hammer Brass and test his fakeclaim.

Complete misrep

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

If Brass is town the game is OVER unless the hammerer is scum. So this makes no sense. If Brass is town there is no solve in this game that doesn't include MiniVirgo. They cannot both be town.

I said assuming my poe was correct, I was even considering Raya if I was wrong on one of you, which you've solidified that it's probably not the case. You look like you're flailing to kill a bomb

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I know that you know 100% that I'm town.

bruh

[MiniVirgo]

So it does make sense. I TR MiniVirgo, so why would I want someone I TR to hammer. If I'm wrong about Brass and right about MiniVirgo then that's 2 town gone and the game ends.

Why am I thinking that you know Minivirgo and Brass are town. NM arguing could just be scum theatre.

I am fairly certain on scum!boner and scum!brass probably fits that a bit more, if they are both scum it explains why boner is pushing for my direct elimination as they lose otherwise.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

If Brass is town NM and T-Bone

If Brass is town there is no solve that doesn't include MiniVirgo. They were the counterwagon to Brass. This is ridiculous. I know that you know 100% that I'm town.

Why would I know you're town. I'm actually thinking you and NM now

What makes you think it's N_M as I believe it's Boner/Brass, the b team

[MiniVirgo]

I think I laid out a case why I think MiniVirgo is scum between Day 2 and 3, but I can repeat those points as needed.

Wasn't your case purely, I was utr and that's townie but that's a good scum play?

[MiniVirgo]

Now that I've read a bit further and see youre pushing for a brass elim, I am indifferent between N_M and Brass as a partner again.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Wait what are the exact probabilities of all vigilantes being blank for each setup. 3/4/5

[MiniVirgo]

Oh I see, but I can't forgive Boner's blatant misrepresentation

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

The fact that MiniVirgo is so confident that Brass is scum but is unwilling to risk a hammer says it all. Their plan hinges on a Brass scumflip. But they aren't willing to risk a hammer? The game is over if Brass is town....UNLESS MiniVirgo is scum. town!MiniVirgo who truly thinks Brass +Bone or NM is scum should be volunteering to hammer Brass and test his fakeclaim.

Complete misrep

- JV

Let me start with this specific post, I've said many different scenarios including town!brass yet you choose to selectively drop every one of them except the single one that you are trying to make me look bad with. I specifically said yestergame that I could hammer them if push comes to shove but obviously I don't want that as eliminating and hammering within the PoE is the way we maximize benefit over risk yet you're specifically throwing out everything I am saying to make me look bad only to use my own logic for yourself, it's literally insane you're trying this and then have the balls to deny it without adding anything to defend yourself or progress this discussion with actual reason.

Another damning tell is that you were widening your scope going into today as seen in 637, which is a slight contradiction to EoD, yet as soon as I claimed bomb you decided to speed-push me as that's the only way scum can win if we ended up pushing to a scum elimination today in ANY form. Scums goal is simply to get me eliminated today or to no-elim, as any other outcome ends in a tied game or a lost game for them so that IS their primary goal which aligns with exactly what you are doing.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I am fine with hammering but would prefer NM to as their new claim is wack

[MiniVirgo]

VOTE: Brass

[MiniVirgo]

If brass is not scum, we lost right here