Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Not_Mafia]

And N_M's vote on me is garbage, even for N_M standards. What's the town motivation in trying to rush an execution on an unimpressive slot that just got replaced by an experienced player, before said player can get involved in the game?

"I'm scum but give me a chance"

[Something_Smart]

mr. smart is there a mechanical reason we should not kill you

I think Gypyx's point about the letters is the most compelling. If it turns out that scum has a lot of power, the odds of there being no I's go way down, and the odds of scum claiming tracker knowing that they will probably be counterclaimed are also low.

Then, there's also the chance that I see a visit... any visit, really. It would necessitate potentially outing a PR, but it would clear me, because there aren't scum trackers in the setup.

Counterbalancing these (from a mechanical perspective) is the risk of me being a scum PR. And again-- the more PR's scum have, the riskier it is to claim the most common town role in the setup.

Generally I'm of the camp that it's comparatively worse to kill a town PR compared to killing a scum PR. Scum PR's are just icing on the cake of their primary advantages, which are the factional knowledge and the NK; but town PR's constitute the meat of their powers. (Shut up my mixed metaphor is AMAZING)

[implosion]

hello petapan.

[Something_Smart]

"I'm scum but give me a chance"

Well, yeah, that's the answer. If you think I can weasel my way out of the wagon, which necessitates you being right on me being scum, and confident in that assessment, and better than the median townie at reading ben, and better at the median townie at reading me.

And with all due respect... I doubt those.

(Plus, you have played with me before, and the most salient feature of my scumgame is the fact that it flies off the rails as soon as I start to receive pressure. I'm not weaseling my way out of anything.)

[petapan]

hello petapan.

hello implosion i actually joined this for you

it is a shame you are obvious scum

[PenguinPower]

well this game has certainly become different

[petapan]

[Schiavetto]

If we keep going we can make this a ship of Theseus

[implosion]

there are many things in this world that are shameful.

[Shirou]

ben should claim a hypothetical perceived visit for every slot in the game at the start of day 2, claiming truthfully for who he actually tracked and flipping a coin between reporting no-visit and his best guess at who he thinks other players would target for the flips that come up tails. Then when we massclaim on D4 or so or whatever we will find out whether or not he does not actually possess the arcane power that lets him see what other people do. The only mafia power to play around by killing him immediately is the 1-shot bus driver, and since that's not a 2 or 3 shot role there's no mechanical benefit to eliminating him on a day that's not right now or much much later.
This has an added benefit of publishing ben's townclears for his potential n2-3 nk death (scum have minimal means to generate nonlethal visits in this setup) without endangering roles that he viewed that might be more powerful than him.

explain to me how this isn't optimal. I'm pretty sure it's optimal and the only reason I don't see it happen more often is because people are lazy

I don't see how this is that different from what I said Isis? Although this is definitely better if we consider a world where Ben is town and would be NK before the massclaim, which I didn't consider too much other than "scenario pays out because we get mafia/SK to kill a common suspect".

If we assume the first night his result maybe messed up by a RB/Bus driver, all he has going to confirm himself if he's town, is hitting a PR on N3, because scum would definitely claim "no visit" here, since it leads to either it being right and the person in question being VT (which I think has higher chances than PR although I don't know in this setup?), or it outing a Town PR.

The unique way massclaim reaches D4 without a scum flip before, is if there's only 2 mafia, and no SK, and I think that's a lower chance than 2 mafia + SK, 3 mafia, or 3 mafia + SK.

I don't think it's a bad plan, but if I ever come to a point where I'm confident that Ben is scum, I'll vote him. That was my initial thoughts but I thought maybe understanding the setup would change my mind, but it didn't.

That said, I'm not really at that level of confidence.

[petapan]

there are many things in this world that are shameful.

for instance, your posting

[Shirou]

I would rather just evaluate Ben on what he has or not done in this game and proceed from there rather than the mess above hedging on what's optimal or not.

if this is your desire then why are you giving me so much crap when i'm trying to do exactly that

-seCret

I'm giving you crap because you were misrepping me and asking questions to ben that already was in his ISO?

When did I say I didn't like your slot because you were trying to eliminate a Tracker claim?

?????

Ico like, what's with you and the reading comprehension in this game, no offense intended?

I don't remember having this kind of issue with you before. I usually agree with your posts on most games although I may remember it wrong. (I remember reading some games where you were other than the completed one and you-know-what, although I can't point out anything specific).

[Shirou]

i think shirou has pocketed me much as bridgeburners pocketed penguin. that is to say that i am townreading him but probably shouldn't be, but am nonetheless

I don't disagree about being town read but out of curiosity why you think I shouldn't probably be from your PoV?

about your comment about the setup and 1-shot tracker yeah, it's roughly where I'm at as well.

[Shirou]

sorry if i helped make you feel that way, shirou. i don't think your walls are a waste, i don't wanna make you feel like you need to simplify your thoughts for us

actually no, I think I may have overreacted. But I was just sleep-deprived and people were misinterpreting my posts so I just felt frustated.

However thanks.

(I do think walls are a waste though and I was already trying to minimize them when possibly)

[Shirou]

i had planned on taking a break but i saw this playerlist and thought, what a fine group of people to make myself miserable with over the next month, so naturally i requested to replace in

couldn't relate more.

[Shirou]

And N_M's vote on me is garbage, even for N_M standards. What's the town motivation in trying to rush an execution on an unimpressive slot that just got replaced by an experienced player, before said player can get involved in the game?

are you seriously arguing that a E-2 NM vote on you is garbage "even in NM's standards"?

NM, the player infamous for quick hammering people randomly?

What exactly is your stance on how to read NM and his progression in a game? I know people have different takes on NM so now I'm interested to look at yours.

[Something_Smart]

Wait until he gets replaced, and then read the replacement.

[Something_Smart]

lonely hollow knight
a hornet in the hallownest
ships passing in the night

a haiku should have
five, then seven, then five beats
yours has five - EIGHT - SIX??

[Shirou]

Wait until he gets replaced, and then read the replacement.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're claiming that you think NM is a near unreadable/troll player that may or may not do random actions through the game or overall have lackluster play, but you think that his vote on you putting you at E-2 is bad considering his meta (which involves lol quick hammering players)?

You think NM, which you don't seem to have a high opinion of, should know better in this game?

[Bridgeburners]

Oh, S_S

Oh, buddy

Three times in a row, really?

-QB

[Bridgeburners]

a haiku should have
five, then seven, then five beats

Only strictly true when writing in Japanese, in English it’s just convention

-QB

[Shirou]

Mena are you caught up?

[Bridgeburners]

No lol and I’m also immediately leaving again bc I wanna play RDR2

-QB

[Bridgeburners]

I’ll be around tomorrow probably, maybe tonight

-QB

[Shirou]

Ah, ok.

See you.

(S_S I'm waiting for you reply, don't leave me hanging).