Mini 630: Council of Eville: Game Ovah!

[Dean Harper]

Mod: Goatrevolt is voting sthar8, not me.

Fixed.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

To be clear, I'm not suspicious of BaB

why not? this doesn't make sense.

BaB: Do mods normally factor possible night choices into determining LYLO?

I don't recall ever living to LYLO before, so I wouldn't know. The mod said he didn't want to reveal any more info, so I'm going to stop asking him, but he used an example (3 town and 3 scum) that doesn't apply at all right now.

I don't think a mass-claim will help us right now. But I don't think it will hurt.
So, I'm willing to claim also.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't think a mass-claim will help us right now. But I don't think it will hurt.
So, I'm willing to claim also.

Then do so.

[veerus]

I had an idea this morning.. There's no reason to mass claim as it would likely oust power roles (since town:scum ratio is getting pretty close to even).

We know that we are dealing with 3 scum. We know the town had a vig. It is highly likely that the town has a doctor or at the very least a roleblocker. Therefore it would be logical to assume that we probably have a cop (I think mafia would be too powerful if we didn't... anyone agree/disagree with this?). I think the cop should claim and disclose the results from the past two nights. That would narrow down the search. In addition, if we have a roleblocker, he should claim too and say whom he blocked in N1 since that's almost a sure scum.

If these two (if present in the setup) claim, the town should be able to lynch mafia with a relatively high degree of success.

[Electra]

Sorry, I'm really busy this weekend (at a convention in Atlanta) so I have yet to finish reading. Since we are in a dire situation, I think it's best for me to look at things carefully. I promise I'll figure something out for you guys on Monday.

[Dean Harper]

Prodding Rage.

[Rage]

Oops, I'm here!

I don't think a mass-claim will help us right now. But I don't think it will hurt.
So, I'm willing to claim also.

Then do so.

Hold on, do you want everyone to claim or just BaB? And, why?

I don't recall ever living to LYLO before, so I wouldn't know. The mod said he didn't want to reveal any more info, so I'm going to stop asking him, but he used an example (3 town and 3 scum) that doesn't apply at all right now.

Why exactly doesn't that apply? Could there be a Cult or Mafia that doesn't kill, and another anti-town faction?

I really think there is a Cult, because it would make so much sense to have in a fake political game, and because I don't know much about any power roles, so I can't really speculate much more than this.

Finally, I think what the Town needs, in the interest of discussion, is for our top three suspects to claim. Therefore, I suggest everyone post, along with whatever else they haven't said already, who they want to role-claim and why.

I want Goatrevolt, Sthra8 and BridgesandBaloons, in that order, to role-claim because they have shown that they can put up cases against others, no matter how strong/weak, and I want to see if their role-claim could relate to anything a scum would say, in relation to their suspicions, or a townie living on the edge.

[Dean Harper]

Also prodding Skillit

[sthar8]

why not? this doesn't make sense.

Why not? I'm clarifying to SC that my comment meant that you were suspicious of goat, not that I was suspicious of you. I haven't presented a case on you, and I've been focused on people who I feel are scummier than you since your play started contradicting my observations about GW. Why wouldn't it make sense that you're not one of my top suspects?

veerus: So you want any cops, docs, or roleblockers we might have to claim? That's gotta be pretty close to a massclaim in this circumstance. What's the difference?

Finally, I think what the Town needs, in the interest of discussion, is for our top three suspects to claim. Therefore, I suggest everyone post, along with whatever else they haven't said already, who they want to role-claim and why.

I want Goatrevolt, Sthra8 and BridgesandBaloons, in that order, to role-claim because they have shown that they can put up cases against others, no matter how strong/weak, and I want to see if their role-claim could relate to anything a scum would say, in relation to their suspicions, or a townie living on the edge.

No. This is not an acceptable method of generating discussion. Random claims are more likely to out power roles for no gain than anything else. If we're going to massclaim, we should massclaim. Any partial claiming scheme gives the scum the information advantage, and that's a very bad idea.

FOS: Rage

Also, I don't buy the little story you spun about your list. Even if we assume that one or more of us are scum (which you've provided no support for) why would you think that the most vocal players in the game are more likely to make the stupid mistake of making a claim that is specifically at odds with their previously stated opinions? Maybe there's some

different

reason that you want the three of us to claim?

In case anyone has any misunderstanding of my opinion on the matter,

I categorically refuse to claim, unless said claim is part of a generally approved and properly executed massclaim, or unless someone can prove to me that my claim is essential to securing a town win.

Despite his end-of-day shenanigans yesterday, SC still seems genuine to me. I need more content from Electra before I'm ready to form an opinion on her(?), but she(?)'s one of my top suspects at the moment.

[StrangerCoug]

I really think there is a Cult, because it would make so much sense to have in a fake political game, and because I don't know much about any power roles, so I can't really speculate much more than this.

Just because it makes sense given the theme doesn't mean it makes sense in the setup. Cults are very hard to balance, and I simply don't see one happening in a normal.

Finally, I think what the Town needs, in the interest of discussion, is for our top three suspects to claim. Therefore, I suggest everyone post, along with whatever else they haven't said already, who they want to role-claim and why.

Either everybody or nobody. That's the only way I see this working. Order doesn't matter to me.

[veerus]

veerus: So you want any cops, docs, or roleblockers we might have to claim? That's gotta be pretty close to a massclaim in this circumstance. What's the difference?

No, you misunderstand (or I wasn't clear). I only want up to two people to claim -- cop and rb if they are present. A cop's results from the first two nights should provide good information. The rb should claim with whom they blocked in N1 as that's a possible scum. Granted it could've been a doctor protection that saved someone on N1, but as someone pointed out earlier, if we lynch a townie today, a doctor's protection is our only realistic chance at avoiding a town loss therefore it's in the town's best interest to not oust the doctor early.

[sthar8]

So would you further restrict that plan to include only information that is useful? For example, if a RB blocked alvinz on N1, we wouldn't need him to claim, right?

[veerus]

So would you further restrict that plan to include only information that is useful? For example, if a RB blocked alvinz on N1, we wouldn't need him to claim, right?

That would be a logical exception.

[sthar8]

I can support this plan, since we probably don't lose a protective role, but we do gain important info.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I sincerely apologize for the lack of time I have had for all my games.

Real quick: I'm willing to willing to claim anytime. But everyone else hasn't agreed to a massclaim yet. So it's anti-town for anyone to just start blurting out their role COUGH SC COUGH!

[StrangerCoug]

Real quick: I'm willing to willing to claim anytime. But everyone else hasn't agreed to a massclaim yet. So it's anti-town for anyone to just start blurting out their role COUGH SC COUGH!

Hey, I'm not the one that objects to massclaiming. This needs to happen if we want to win.

[Rage]

Real quick: I'm willing to willing to claim anytime. But everyone else hasn't agreed to a massclaim yet. So it's anti-town for anyone to just start blurting out their role COUGH SC COUGH!

Hey, I'm not the one that objects to massclaiming. This needs to happen if we want to win.

Well, there

are

mixed feelings about doing an actual mass-claim. Why do you think it's necessary?

[Dean Harper]

Note: if Skillit doesn't respond to his prod by tomorrow, he will be replaced.

[veerus]

Note: if Skillit doesn't respond to his prod by tomorrow, he will be replaced.

Oh damn.. here we go again...

[sthar8]

So we've got BaB, Goat, and SC for a true massclaim.

sthar8 and veerus for veerus' cop/RB claim plan

Rage for his top 3 suspects claim plan.

Skillit and Electra supporting no claim plan at the moment.

Since we have eight players, I'd like to get at least 5 on one idea before we execute.

I think veerus's plan gives us the greatest reward for the least amount of risk, but I don't really have a problem with massclaim either.

Whichever we choose, we're going to need a claim order. How do we want to do this? Suspicions, dice, popcorn, all work for me.

[Electra]

In terms of massclaim, I don't think we're deep enough into the game to make it worthwhile. There are too many townies left over, I feel. Even though it's LyLo, if we mass claim, we might get scum today, but then they would have all the information they need to make smart nightkills, and we'd probably lose in the long run anyway.

I'm fine with a cop claim if it clears people who are questionable, but not if it clears people who are already not being looked at. Suffice to say, I'm also fine with a cop claim that IDs mafia.

I think we should give the cop maybe 24hoursish to decide if it's worth claiming, and if not, continue scumhunting with the standard of getting the person to claim when he's about to die.

Anyway, I don't think sthar and veerus are scum together because they are supporting each other far too much. After reading through, sthar looks like scum to me, but I'm not going to vote yet in the off chance that he's innocent and then three scum can just jump on and end the game.

[Skillit]

Im here, doing a reread. mass claim? seems like a bad idea to me, but im just generally hesitant to hand over info to scum. If anyone feels strongly for one im willing to listen though. ill have more on my top suspects asap.

[StrangerCoug]

Real quick: I'm willing to willing to claim anytime. But everyone else hasn't agreed to a massclaim yet. So it's anti-town for anyone to just start blurting out their role COUGH SC COUGH!

Hey, I'm not the one that objects to massclaiming. This needs to happen if we want to win.

Well, there

are

mixed feelings about doing an actual mass-claim. Why do you think it's necessary?

In my opinion, LYLO is reason enough to massclaim.

[Electra]

If massclaiming is the best way to find mafia, then why don't all games have a massclaim on day 1? :p

[Goatrevolt]

unvote

until we sort out the massclaim

Ok, massclaim is definitely our best course of action here. I'm not sure how many people have played a game to Lylo before, but mass claiming at Lylo is pretty much always standard fare. Why would the town pretty much always mass claim at Lylo if it wasn't something that benefited them? The answer is that it does benefit, significantly.

We have 8 players in the game, and I'm going to go ahead and say 3 scum. There are probably 2-3 town power roles and based on the lack of a night 1 kill I'm going to guess 1 confirmed townie from a doctor protection (or bulletproof). We can go from a 3/8 shot in the dark of hitting scum, or we can significantly narrow that down to around a 3/5 - 3/6 chance.

So far, the only arguments I've heard against mass claiming are flawed. They all fall under the "if we get it wrong" part. We're at Lylo. We can't get it wrong any more. So we should do everything we can to make sure we get it right, which involves getting all the information out in the open.

If massclaiming is the best way to find mafia, then why don't all games have a massclaim on day 1? :p

Day 3 is not Day 1. Mass claiming on day 1 is dumb because town roles haven't had a chance to collect information and nothing is known about the setup. Mass claiming at Lylo on day 3 is smart, because you accumulate that information town roles have been collecting and narrow down the list of potential scum to make an educated decision.