Happy Face Mafia (Game Over)

[Retti]

idk actually the titus/bell progression is pretty town in the sense that i didn't powershove bell but actively got in the way of people derailing it w/ reasoning that was obviously garbage (titus explicitly argued that this wasn't bell's scumgame and i was like ??? it might flip town b/c could just be busy+demotivated as town too but absolutely this is classic bell scum)

and in particular didn't try to use that to really swing it elsewhere, let somebody else swing it elsewhere, or even use it to get an elim. i didn't like titus's positioning but i went to bat for that elim so hard only to give it up for free. no reason to stop other than bear spamming she was town, which is not something to back off for or really be afraid of when i am intentionally burning my credit to get a vote day 2. that backoff only happened because i knew if she was lying i'd get her day 3 and that the vig meant we'd win back the elim

I mean I feel like resisting the vote on Bell is a dead end though because I'd be inclined to call bullshit on it and that gets you nowhere. Like, hypothetically if you're in the situation where you're scum with Bell and he just guiltied himself with a tactical replace out, what would you be doing instead?

I do understand what you're saying here about titus although the game was pretty much the bear show for day 1-2 until we started getting guilties, I would expect there was incentive to just keep pushing it though (and leaving her alive means she would be much harder to eliminate lategame) so I guess it makes sense

[willow1]

totally agree w/ the bit about bell being dead in the water, more about getting setup well only to abandon it b/c bear said no, which did not bother me at any point day 2 up until the maskless claim

[Retti]

anyway at some point i should check the mask info claim timeline but i really think you're town mechanically over that much qualitative.

maybe the poison would be the reward for the second gladiate but this setup is wack

I would have used the poison a lot sooner I think

also I should probably out that I used my mask to get another gladiate last night and wasn't told of any downside, I don't know if that means scum got a bonus or what. I felt like I might as well yolo it though because there was a decent chance I'd die anyway and if I lived I wanted to be able to prove my mask wasn't the poison one

[Retti]

So I'm prepared to make this day a 1v1, I just want to be sure of what I'm doing before I pull the trigger

[willow1]

anyway if you want to do this we're going to do this all the way

I don't need to say it at this poin,t but willow is really blatantly town.

Everything VFP is saying in response to him is just deflect, riposte, parry, there's no substance to the responses, his only argument is that willow sounds "fake and forced"

i gave this as pass b/c shared my scumread and i was indeed town

but the blatantly town bit suggests that the "blatantly town" bit held even if vfp flipped town, which is a little too strong for my taste.

y, i can be hella aggro towards lhf as scum too

[Retti]

anyway if you want to do this we're going to do this all the way

I don't need to say it at this poin,t but willow is really blatantly town.

Everything VFP is saying in response to him is just deflect, riposte, parry, there's no substance to the responses, his only argument is that willow sounds "fake and forced"

i gave this as pass b/c shared my scumread and i was indeed town

but the blatantly town bit suggests that the "blatantly town" bit held even if vfp flipped town, which is a little too strong for my taste.

y, i can be hella aggro towards lhf as scum too

I think at that point in time it wasn't the aggression but the way you were approaching the argument with assmad frustration - you felt tilted at VFP in a way that I only expect to come from you as town where you'd be more in control as scum (although that's conjecture on my part)

[willow1]

the speculation about the poison being a reward was more from the angle of

you're scum gladiator, you lied about the setup info (which would be super fuckin clever ftr) and instead the second reward for winning was a poison. you also want to use poison as late as possible when solo so idk what you mean about holding it but i don't really want to work through what days were the gladiates+corresponding numbers atm so. actually i guess you'd get it n3 when i think only 2 dead scum so yeah maybe, dunno how much scum knew but could be scared of doc since that only flipped the next morning

[willow1]

anyway if you want to do this we're going to do this all the way

I don't need to say it at this poin,t but willow is really blatantly town.

Everything VFP is saying in response to him is just deflect, riposte, parry, there's no substance to the responses, his only argument is that willow sounds "fake and forced"

i gave this as pass b/c shared my scumread and i was indeed town

but the blatantly town bit suggests that the "blatantly town" bit held even if vfp flipped town, which is a little too strong for my taste.

y, i can be hella aggro towards lhf as scum too

I think at that point in time it wasn't the aggression but the way you were approaching the argument with assmad frustration - you felt tilted at VFP in a way that I only expect to come from you as town where you'd be more in control as scum (although that's conjecture on my part)

this is really funny to me because iirc i wasn't actually mad or tilted at all, just very intentionally aggressive in ways similar to other accounts. i was more concerned about getting bogged down in the weeds and making it unreadable which is why i tried so hard to disconnect it

[willow1]

anyway idk how much to buy that given that i have faked that same aggro annoyance in literally every single scumgame i have ever played onsite and yet people cite it as a classic towntell for me anyway it's bizarre

[willow1]

i actually did get so tilted at titus actually but that was because she didn't understand basic premises or logical implications which for someone of her exp/vocation is kinda ???????

but she town i bad so

[Retti]

this is really funny to me because iirc i wasn't actually mad or tilted at all, just very intentionally aggressive in ways similar to other accounts. i was more concerned about getting bogged down in the weeds and making it unreadable which is why i tried so hard to disconnect it

anyway idk how much to buy that given that i have faked that same aggro annoyance in literally every single scumgame i have ever played onsite and yet people cite it as a classic towntell for me anyway it's bizarre

Well that was how it came across to me at the time and it was entirely reminiscent to me of you as town, comparing it to similar moments, but of course I don't have a mental model of your scumplay, maybe that was cavalier of me but that was how it felt at the time - that you wouldn't necessarily play in a way that would draw that much negative attention early on and the way you were arguing with him looked genuine

[Retti]

i actually did get so tilted at titus actually but that was because she didn't understand basic premises or logical implications which for someone of her exp/vocation is kinda ???????

but she town i bad so

Tbf getting tilted at titus is par for the course

[Retti]

if what we have seen so far is the extent of commentary we can expect from you i am 100% fine voting you out. know in advance that any lecture about how it's suboptimal to flip you if you're town or w/e will be ignored w/ zero remorse. the only thing that is of any interest to me whatsoever is for you to actually back up the opinions you're giving rather than be an empty black box that spits out random reads with no explanation.

like i just gave you a springboard to talk about two reads that you appear to have a stance on that are actually interesting and can help drive the pace of the game forward in meaningful ways, one of them being around a contentious wagon that you could help derail, find scum on, etc.

and that was what you gave

and you have the gall to be like "this game is too slow nothing is happening nobody is giving anything everybody else do things"

My boozle requires assistance, VFP.

Because you're focus is going where I'm thinking.
Your questions aren't questions to look busy but actually want the answers.
164 is a decent take, even if some errors.

my bad, you actually did explain the bamboozle read, took more teeth pulling but you did it

my vote is not moving until you explain what is wrong with the dunnstral wagon or provide a substantial scumread on a player

sounds like me and enchant made bad posts. stop being a coward and explain it

and yeah, if you only give any anything of substance when directly asked, you're being completely worthless as a player and should be policied even without that content being awkward as hell

more performative garbage instead of actual substance

more votes on this slot, thanks

instead of just explaining why he doesn't like the dunn vote or investigating the people on it he launches into this spiel about how he will not be worried about being flipped, because he is town, and will not join a wagon for peer pressure, because he is town

a++

literally completely unable to put his money where his mouth is, on me, on the dunn wagon, on enchant, on anything

Like, eh, can you pull a beatdown on someone like this early as scum? probably, but at the time the way the sequences was presented did not feel like it came from a scum mindset

I mean if you want to prove me wrong that isn't town-AI for you, uh, go ahead

[Retti]

I wish I had better words than "it just didn't ~feel~ that way"

[willow1]

i mean i think it's plausible to think that given what you've seen and you're not the only player who feels it's ai for me

i could backlink the miniature version in draft mafia/hint at where other games could be found but this is more hypothetical armchair curiosity that i am prone to rather than anything relevant to the actual game in front of us

[willow1]

idk part of me wants to do due diligence and ask about shit part of me looks at esooa slapfight+vfp metadive and says "yeah that's town retti"

there are clear red flags to iron out when motivated skimming the iso (raya vote+pushing d2 only to drop her completely on a dime) but i really don't feel like doing them rn so maybe later

[willow1]

yeah i'm just gonna take my time and wait til i actually feel motivated to root out shit instead of the "meh just assume i'm right and call it a day" attitude i have atm

if u have any questions for me feel free, i have questions but they're gonna wait until i actually care

[Retti]

Eh not right now, maybe when I fully read back I'll have actual good things to ask but that covered the base of the silly shit that was on my mind

[Retti]

It is kind of funny that it all comes back to VFP after that day 1

at the time what inspired me to doubt whether he was scum was that he displayed similar behavior in electoral college, where he got misyeeted day 2, but it was still ongoing at the time so I couldn't reference it. But now he has actual completed scumgames and I don't think the play here is distinctly town-meta for him

this game feels like it's lasted a million years

[Retti]

I don't even remember what convinced me the Raya read wasn't right in the first place anymore

[VFP]

I do not understand why, as town, you are not giving serious consideration to me being mafia. You are not even entertaining the idea and it feels performatively goofbally.

The game is over if you are town and get voted out. Why are you telling Flea to stick to the plan and vote you out?

Because its a lost game. I know when games that have a chance of winning at this stage, and this isn't one of them.
I'm not sure how I can tell someone to do something other than exactly what I would in their position.

The only way that today was going to be a win is if Raya was scum and I was shot from Samantha last night.

Mechanically you're never scum here. Scum do not have the need to find masks, but instead they want to find roles.
Masks have a down side so it's beneficial to scum for town to use masks early. This is why there's no need to locate them as scum.
You won't convince me otherwise here either.

No fade would be worthless here as well.

[willow1]

I mean it's lost if you want it to be but me/Retti both have concerns about the other and Flea is a clear that exists with fae's own viewpoints

If I'm not going to convince you I'm scum that's uhhhh, good for me, but I don't understand how it is not even remotely on the table esp when my rolepower is unverified and we have a confirmed poisoner

Don't get me wrong, I'm leaning voting you, but by playing dead and saying just get it over with you leave me with little other choice, because there is no town incentive and some scum incentive.

[VFP]

Well I'm town, if that helps?

[willow1]

similarly to how i will wait a few days until i care enough to grill retti on any/all concerns i find in a few days, i hope you feel a bit more inspired to play later as well

i don't think giving up on the game and saying "id lose here just vote me and end it" is fair to me/flea, or most of the dead town

[Retti]

I do not understand why, as town, you are not giving serious consideration to me being mafia. You are not even entertaining the idea and it feels performatively goofbally.

The game is over if you are town and get voted out. Why are you telling Flea to stick to the plan and vote you out?

Because its a lost game. I know when games that have a chance of winning at this stage, and this isn't one of them.
I'm not sure how I can tell someone to do something other than exactly what I would in their position.

The only way that today was going to be a win is if Raya was scum and I was shot from Samantha last night.

Mechanically you're never scum here. Scum do not have the need to find masks, but instead they want to find roles.
Masks have a down side so it's beneficial to scum for town to use masks early. This is why there's no need to locate them as scum.
You won't convince me otherwise here either.

No fade would be worthless here as well.

Is the only actual reason you're sure willow is town the claim? Because that feels like incredibly lazy reasoning.