Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Infinity 324]

Johnny didn't towntell and everyone else did

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh ok so there's 8 town and 1 scum gotcha

[Infinity 324]

Yep :)

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's up i haven't caught up yet I was slapped with a rush job but I'll be back soon

[Lukewarm]

I am probably going to be absent from the thread for the next 24ish hours. Having an allergic reaction to my cat's new flea medicine, completely with severe migraine and nausea.

Will not be reading any threads for the near future.

[Infinity 324]

Damn hope you feel better

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm here now let's go

[humaneatingmonkey]

Page 6. From the get go, I don't believe that Infinity's reads are genuine. She makes these reads but I don't believe her process. First example is her read on Prism as town, but it's barely obvious what's town about Prism at the time she made that read and I don't buy her current explanation when I asked her. Another example is in #125 - reads Ydrasse as scum because she expects deeper out of Ydrasse but it's page 6 and we've only begun to escape RVS at this point. Oh, and then she votes Hectic even though it's also not apparent that Ydrasse has stopped doing what she thought was scummy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Infinity Let's see if I don't change my mind after Page 6

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also page 6, I'm getting a town vibe from Prism, Ydrasse, and T3.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I feel pretty good about Lukewarm being town after 139. I skimmed the marathon run of Guardians and they feel more comfortable here. In Guardians they stuck strictly to mechanics for the first half of the game and only gradually dipped into giving reads or meaningful feedback.

Lukewarm was town in guardians

I agree he's towny here

We are talking about two different games. Lukewarm was scum in the recent Marathon run of Guardians.

Oh I didn't read your post close enough

I'n hesitant to use marathon meta, but I agree with your assessment

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

[Hectic]

So I'm actually on mini-vacation with some friends over this weekend. I know the timing sucks chain linked to a recent V/LA, but what can ya do. I likely won't have time to read anything again until Sunday

Apologies, promise I'm a lot more free after that though

[Hectic]

Welcome, monkey of Old

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism - Lot of analysis and some meta. Good content but nothing I explicitly townrwad and that isn't fakeable for her. Tone is notably different but she says she's trying a different approach. Probably weakest townread on here

I don't buy this.

You have clearly seen me fake the freewheeling, joking tone (in the vein of non-tilted Costello or me at my most lighthearted in Chara's Folly) in Flying Scumsman. You have seen this sort of intentionality and sharper focus repeatedly, dating back to your first experience with me on Replica, continuing through Folly, with flashes of it in Binding of Isaac.

I have repeatedly done things to sort players both actively and preemptively. I find it unlikely that these take a backseat in your mind in favor of tone.

Prism is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

Welcome, monkey of Old

whats up buddy

[humaneatingmonkey]

You don't understand the dark history Prism and I have, Infinity. We were both town in Chara's Folly and her 100 page long push still keeps me up at night

UNVOTE:

This makes that post lean town for me

Either I'm not understanding Infinity's process at all or she doesn't have one because this does not follow. Maybe she can explain?

[Child of Fairies]

I am happy to see the acknowledgement of my points; I think your clarification of what is meant by "confusion" is very helpful, and there the blame falls squarely on me. I thought you were saying the confusion was

intentional

on my end, as opposed to me playing poorly regardless of alignment. I accept the latter. I also accept the argument that I wouldn't really be able to restrain myself as town.

I will accept the criticism for how I responded to Infinity, and take ownership of making you feel as though I don't respect the other players or the space in the game. I am human and got frustrated with Infinity and yourself, even as I decided to explain something I did not want to for both of your sakes. I can be very demanding and harsh when it comes to challenging players to meet my own subjective standard of play. Finally, my enthusiasm is a double-edged sword that leads to me posting too often and taking up too much space. I try to counterbalance this with posts like 494 and 498, encouraging you to branch out in a way that was for all of our benefit, but I recognize behavior does not cancel out. I have been harsh this game, and while this wasn't included in your wall I think 247 was unacceptably mean as an example.

As a final note, this conversation prompted by ignoring the more respectful ask in 505:

To be more specific: Are you saying that I would be unable to restrain myself from selfhammering as town, or that I would not

want

to restrain myself to begin with?

I take up too much space and can be a real jerk, but I don't think I've ignored a single question posed to me. I typed those paragraphs explaining my point as much for your sake as for mine. I hope we all can do the same for each other. Ignoring my point over just respectfully rejecting it and calling it a day was clearly counterproductive. Now that we're on the same page, I hope you can be more forthcoming with your actual reasoning moving forward, and I will keep striving to be better on my end both by posting less and treating the other players with more respect.

I'll definitely shoulder blame for letting this drag out as long as I did. That's completely on me and my confrontation skills. I should've answered your first question when you asked it, and I'm sorry that I didn't do so. I'll do my best to answer more openly in the future, now that this has been cleared up.

UNVOTE:

I'm going to go reread Prism's iso, I want to make sure my later interpretations weren't just emotionally driven.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not sure how to read Hectic because he intimidates me as a player and I'm inclined to just assume he's scum, but his response to Prism's pressure Page 8 is towny

[Infinity 324]

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

I don't understand how this is AI at all since I didn't agree with prism's original assessment of luke's meta, just the conclusion

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism and Hectic's battle pings me as though one of them is forcing it although that is still more or less a guess.

I agree, but I empathize with Prism that Hectic is possibly a player you want to give early attention to so you can sort them. Although I'm confused that Prism keeps mentioning she sees Infinity as scummy as well but doesn't pressure her as much as she's pressuring Hectic at this point of the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not sure how to read Hectic because he intimidates me as a player and I'm inclined to just assume he's scum, but his response to Prism's pressure Page 8 is towny

in this example, as well as my other examples, it appears to me that you don't really have your own reads/you're faking them because it's not obvious to me that there's a process there

[humaneatingmonkey]

EBWOP

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

I don't understand how this is AI at all since I didn't agree with prism's original assessment of luke's meta, just the conclusion

in this example, as well as my other examples, it appears to me that you don't really have your own reads/you're faking them because it's not obvious to me that there's a process there

[Infinity 324]

If you want to know my thought process you can ask. You don't seem super eager to engage here, which is fine with me but isn't going to help you sort me. I had a reason to TR luke at that time but it seems like you're calling me scum for not voicing it? But no one asked?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Infinity I'm doing a catch-up so I'm gonna be living in the past and rushing to put my impressions out there. i'm not gonna be focused on grilling you because the answer can be found in further pages. but you can mount your rebuttals as early as now.

I think prism's play recently fits much more cleanly into a scum trying to look town mindset, but to call it scummy would be a stretch.

start with this maybe. how is it that you read it as might be scum, but not scummy?

[Infinity 324]

how is it that you read it as might be scum, but not scummy?

The town mindset was too believable