In post 497, Dwlee99 wrote:Like you have completely ignored any actual conversation to preserve this tunnel because town!you would know how stupid your tunnel is. You're scum.
just because I think that you're playing this from a scum pov and that's been reflected in things like your progression, your efforts to get additional information in the open, a claim that's like... very safe for scum you to make is it's unverifiable without bugs dying and also can just be part of a pocket attempt on one of the people voting you (which I think is kinda supported by the way you're approaching thana and putting her in the same class of conftown "would never vote today" as your supposed 2 conftowns)
I'm not avoiding you I'm just more interested in pressuring you given my confidence on your red flip
In post 499, Dwlee99 wrote:What are you even on rn? Why do those forum times matter at all? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Ik you're in a different time zone that isn't my point.
because part of your framing is that I dropped out on you bc I what, couldn't' answer your points? when I'd just before explained where I was and what I was doing and that I was likely not gonna be on my phone for a while
then I went home and got stoned af and fell asleep
Each time one of your "theories" for why I'm scum fails you've jumped to a new one. You said I was scum for trying to play into "hard to elim town," then when that was clearly bs you hopped onto something else I can't remember. Your read on me is completely fake.
Pedit: you also missed how I have basically crumbed my role from the beginning of the game and that I claimed it to VFP and Bugs in our hood earlier.
Pedit2: no that wasn't part of my framing at all you're misreading me or lying.
I think you're far more desperate to stay alive than you are to make sure that I die or that if you can't get me today that I should die tomorrow
but you're not calling for my head or screaming bloody murder about that, you're picking on little holes that you think you see in my argument to undermine it and to try and save your own skin
In post 503, Dwlee99 wrote:Each time one of your "theories" for why I'm scum fails you've jumped to a new one. You said I was scum for trying to play into "hard to elim town," then when that was clearly bs you hopped onto something else I can't remember. Your read on me is completely fake.
Pedit: you also missed how I have basically crumbed my role from the beginning of the game and that I claimed it to VFP and Bugs in our hood earlier.
Pedit2: no that wasn't part of my framing at all you're misreading me or lying.
uh, no lol. I've explained why you're scum from more than one angle, that's not the same as ~abandoning my theories and hopping to a new one~ bc they fail. like I think there was one thing that I was thinking you were scummy for and was using as part of my justification for wanting you (around you being the one who was trying to elicit the claiming of hoods) but I already said that I got that bit wrong. but like the collective set of reasons for SRing you also prejudice me towards seeing your other behaviour as likely scum-motivated so I don't think me being wrong on that one thing is particularly important
I also don't think I ever said you were scum "trying to playing into "hard to lim town"" and don't really know what you mean by that? if anything I said the opposite, that you were trying to pocket hard-to-lim town, not that you yourself were trying to slip into that role yourself
and again, your role claim is just like neutral bro? I'll give you it's a weird one for scum to come up with, so I am actually wondering if it's true you're informed of that for some setup fuckery reasons, but I don't think it's clearing
In post 507, Dwlee99 wrote:You've jumped on like five different explanations for why I'm scum throughout the game you're forcing this read and it's obvious.
In post 506, Dwlee99 wrote:Assuming I don't die today I'm sure you'll leave me alive to mislim tomorrow and I'll have plenty of time to push you then.
again, me having multiple reasons why you're scum =/= me changing why you're scum multiple times
and like, lol. I'm p sure you kill me tonight if I don't get you today and tell your buddy to bus you tomo for the cred, that's how I'd play it if I were in your spot under pressure
the important reason to survive is that if a town player gets the cred for killing you then it's real hard for your buddy to win endgame. if you can hold it off just a day, it's a lot more winnable
uh, okay, and.. yes? that's one of the first things that pinged me, correct
some of it I misread (the stuff that was kinda referencing oog was my b) but I still think you were basically trying to position yourself to be lined up with me/mom who I think at that stage in the game were looking like the towniest slots/the slots likely to be hardest to lim
Okay guess I have to go through these one by one. Here's the sucking up progression, which ends with you admitting it was dumb and wrong/a misread but here you are still trying to say it's scummy like I can't refind these posts.
Spoiler:
In post 263, Menalque wrote:idk I want mom to answer on why she had townpings on me by the time she entered but I feel like you have been (I guess up until now) sucking up to the players who are likely to be harder to lim and who are presenting as towniest so far which is uh
not something I like from you
In post 264, Dwlee99 wrote:PoE is just people that I don't townread so do you disagree with my townreads (the rest of the game)?
Menalque wrote:idk I want mom to answer on why she had townpings on me by the time she entered but I feel like you have been (I guess up until now) sucking up to the players who are likely to be harder to lim and who are presenting as towniest so far which is uh
And uh, yes, the only person who I feel confident on other than maaaaaybe mom is T3 and that’s v much reverse institution
VFP might be town but not sure, if VFP town then I feel good about T3 town instead of getting to it through fucky logic, but I can also see VFP scum playing for a pocket on T3
then bugs is just like ehh, maybe town but more just bc there are 4 slots worse but of those I think you and burger are easily at the bottom of the pile
In post 268, Dwlee99 wrote:I think you're completely making up this sucking up thing. Also I'm just gonna put out there that my vfp/bugs townreads are motivated by out-of-thread things
In post 271, Dwlee99 wrote:Not wanting a wagon is explicitly not sucking up to you and I was referencing your FWAN with the other posts. I am happy with mom's entrance given what happened in dogs v cats that just ended.
In post 272, Dwlee99 wrote:You also modded a game where I did extremely similar things so yeah I think your push is made up
In post 271, Dwlee99 wrote:Not wanting a wagon is explicitly not sucking up to you and I was referencing your FWAN with the other posts. I am happy with mom's entrance given what happened in dogs v cats that just ended.
oh lol, I’d forgotten i posted that around that point. hmm
I’m not reading cats n dogs but what’s the cliffnotes on the mom thing
In post 272, Dwlee99 wrote:You also modded a game where I did extremely similar things so yeah I think your push is made up
Next up is "dwlee and VFP are scum trying to have low-effort interaction in thread" which is just a dumb argument and I don't think he can honestly believe it
Spoiler:
In post 364, Menalque wrote:I don't like the Nathan wagon, VFP/dwlee are not really doing The Good Posting and the "VFP sell me on T3 town" seems like a very easy way to have interactions that are very low-stakes and allow the two to interact while also going for a hard pocket
In post 370, Dwlee99 wrote:This Dwlee/VFP scum partners shit is so dumb because if anything they are trying to buddy me.
anyway I'm tilted beyond belief due to the wrap up of ferry's tarot u-pick so I'm ducking out, may be around tomorrow
In post 373, Dwlee99 wrote:Menalque your theory rn is that I told my buddy to convince me of a read in thread just for me to essentially go "meh" on the entire thing.
In post 373, Dwlee99 wrote:Menalque your theory rn is that I told my buddy to convince me of a read in thread just for me to essentially go "meh" on the entire thing.
In post 512, Dwlee99 wrote:Here's the sucking up progression, which ends with you admitting it was dumb and wrong/a misread but here you are still trying to say it's scummy like I can't refind these posts
I mean I said the "you being complimentary" bit was dumb but I don't think that the "being supportive of what me and mom were saying from early on" is wrong, I think you just haven't been able to sustain that on me bc I'm pushing you anyway and bc mom hasn't ended up being a priority for you in the end bc she ducked out of the game
In post 513, Dwlee99 wrote:Next up is "dwlee and VFP are scum trying to have low-effort interaction in thread" which is just a dumb argument and I don't think he can honestly believe it
Spoiler:
In post 364, Menalque wrote:I don't like the Nathan wagon, VFP/dwlee are not really doing The Good Posting and the "VFP sell me on T3 town" seems like a very easy way to have interactions that are very low-stakes and allow the two to interact while also going for a hard pocket
In post 370, Dwlee99 wrote:This Dwlee/VFP scum partners shit is so dumb because if anything they are trying to buddy me.
anyway I'm tilted beyond belief due to the wrap up of ferry's tarot u-pick so I'm ducking out, may be around tomorrow
In post 373, Dwlee99 wrote:Menalque your theory rn is that I told my buddy to convince me of a read in thread just for me to essentially go "meh" on the entire thing.
In post 373, Dwlee99 wrote:Menalque your theory rn is that I told my buddy to convince me of a read in thread just for me to essentially go "meh" on the entire thing.
Yeh
I mean I think scum often look to have some sort of interaction with their buddy in thread that will make it harder to ID them if someone goes down, and I think you/VFP had enough people SRing/SLing you that you would want to cloud the associations
however I think scum tend to find talking to each other awkward a lot of the time and one way around that is to answer like ~easy questions~ being posed to each other or to just get one to talk without really trying to pick them up on anything or to delve into what they're thinking, which I think fits you trying to look like you're having engagement with VFP without really sorting them in the process
In post 376, Dwlee99 wrote:Yea the coasting vibes are kinda there and I feel egg-on-face a little bit. Still think her earlier posting was good and I'm hoping the lack of recent posts is real-life-indicative rather than scum-indicative here.
In post 395, Dwlee99 wrote:Did you not have that conversation in your hood? We thought multiple hoods was very likely.
In post 399, Dwlee99 wrote:Like a "there are probably other hoods" conversation.
Fam how are y’all reading the game and not making a vote here
Like the bit on mom is such blatant fence sitting and the other posts are either fishing or informed fishing
In post 413, Menalque wrote:stop claiming hoods/no hoods unless ur lying in which case also stop but just because some people are gonna fuck up and tell the truth
also stop speculating on if we have PRs via hoods
In post 414, Dwlee99 wrote:How is asking t3 if he had a certain conversation in his hood role fishing? Wtf? How do you feel like you have a good read on mom when she hasn't posted anything for two days and wasn't even here since her initial push on Nathan?
In post 415, Menalque wrote:I think mom’s entrance for the same reason I think she liked mine, which is why I asked her about the early pings on me despite me not being outside range yet, which is we just played scum together and she felt like... distinctly different. That’s not enough to hard clear the slot bc that gsme was frankly a lot scarier than this one in terms of mechanics and PL
And it’s not about T3, it’s the “we’re pretty sure there are other hoods” is I think trying to prompt someone else to claim hood or no hood, and evidently it worked as both Nathan and thana claimed no hood and I can only hope one of them is lying and we’re not outing like, 80% of the setup on D1
In post 417, Dwlee99 wrote:No, I asked it because t3 thought he could counterclaim me being in a hood which is stupid.
In post 418, Menalque wrote:I think phrasing it as a cc was an obvious joke which something something nsg something something cognitive load
In post 422, Dwlee99 wrote:Also isn't the thing that made people claim no hood t3 saying "I think everyone is in a hood?" Menalque are you reading the same game I am?
In post 425, Menalque wrote:nsg is northsidegal a very respected town player onsite who has a couple of useful theories/rules of thumb and one is that scum are more likely to interpret jokes as serious bc they have a higher cognitive load to deal with due to participating in active deception the whole game
that T3 was not joking and thought he actually could CC prooooobably makes that moot tho? Not sure, I still feel like the expected reaction would be to take it as a joke bc obviously you can’t cc a hood lol
In post 422, Dwlee99 wrote:Also isn't the thing that made people claim no hood t3 saying "I think everyone is in a hood?" Menalque are you reading the same game I am?
Yeh but I TR t3 and think he was being naive whereas I think you were encouraging it when you should know better
In post 427, Dwlee99 wrote:Oh yeah I've seen that before. It was clear to me that t3 was being serious but also I've played with him so much at this point.
Menalque wrote:
In post 422, Dwlee99 wrote:Also isn't the thing that made people claim no hood t3 saying "I think everyone is in a hood?" Menalque are you reading the same game I am?
Yeh but I TR t3 and think he was being naive whereas I think you were encouraging it when you should know better
I was trying to engage t3 on what had happened in his hood and why he thought he could counterclaim that. That's not encouraging everyone to claim hood status??
In post 428, Menalque wrote:Mostly you just don’t give me the Good Vibes and I feel like okay enough with the rest of the thread to want to yeet in (you, VFP) today and then have a lower tier of (burger, bugs)
T3 is i think likely town regardless of VFP alignment
Mom gave me sufficient pings that I’m not interested in her today
Nathan deciding to come back and push mom of all people is like lolworthy if he’s scum bc it’s so obviously not happening
Thana is probably the weakest TR of the 4 and like I might be wrong here but her resistance to voting is reminiscent of how she played ydra’s mini imo and I think she’s just being methodical in her thought processes? Actually she should maybe be in a tier with bugs which is like a bit above burger
So then bugs is like ehhh I don’t really feel town but also doesn’t scream scum to me which is what I would expect from scum bugs (maybe a tiny bit concerning that I don’t want to yeet bugs harder, à la my T3 read)
Which leaves like (you, VFP, burger) where I think burger could be town who scum are circling around as a compromise D1 lim which then leaves me with... you and VFP neither of which have posted anything that made me go “hmm that seemed like a town thought” and you specifically haven’t said anything that makes me think your town in your responses to me, just like you’re not giving up and rolling over
In post 427, Dwlee99 wrote:I was trying to engage t3 on what had happened in his hood
Why do you want to know this if ur town lmao
In post 431, Dwlee99 wrote:I'm primarily trying to figure out why your thoughts make no sense to me and your responses aren't satisfying that concern. Like I'm having trouble seeing how someone can read my posts and interpret it as me fishing for anything other than t3's thought processes. I feel like that incongruency in our thinking makes you more likely to be scum but your tone is good so I'm conflicted.
Menalque wrote:
In post 427, Dwlee99 wrote:I was trying to engage t3 on what had happened in his hood
Why do you want to know this if ur town lmao
like this is literally nonsensical to me.
In post 432, Dwlee99 wrote:You might as well ask why I'd want to open my eyes and read t3's posts fmpov.
Scum to have extra info about what’s going on behind closed doors
If you’re town lmao
Like I refuse to think that you’re unaware that a major part of utility in hoods is in depriving scum of information (if hoods are all town that is) so trying to elicit information is scummy
I was addressing that egregious part of your post instead of responding to the bit about you fishing bc I think that may have been misread on my part if T3 was serious when he claimed he was CCing you which is now confirmed true
In post 434, Menalque wrote:Like the fishing bit is basically immaterial other than it fitting with my general thing of you inexplicably wanting to get as much info about the setup as you can which uh
Is not a town thing to do on D1 fam
In post 436, Dwlee99 wrote:Menalque I feel like you're not this dense. If I want to sort t3 I will ask him what he thinks of his hood or what has been happening there. That doesn't mean he just spills to me that mom claimed PT god mother shuffler alignment cop doctor in the hood, that's not how that works. You're either being extremely dense or you think t3 is a blubbering idiot that would say too much info about the hood. I never asked who was in the hood. I never asked for more than "did you suspect there could be multiple hoods because we did?" And again you're extremely tunneled on me when we had Thana literally ask for everyone to claim all of their hoods.
Honorable mention to this post in the middle of it:
In post 428, Menalque wrote:Mostly you just don’t give me the Good Vibes and I feel like okay enough with the rest of the thread to want to yeet in (you, VFP) today and then have a lower tier of (burger, bugs)
T3 is i think likely town regardless of VFP alignment
Mom gave me sufficient pings that I’m not interested in her today
Nathan deciding to come back and push mom of all people is like lolworthy if he’s scum bc it’s so obviously not happening
Thana is probably the weakest TR of the 4 and like I might be wrong here but her resistance to voting is reminiscent of how she played ydra’s mini imo and I think she’s just being methodical in her thought processes? Actually she should maybe be in a tier with bugs which is like a bit above burger
So then bugs is like ehhh I don’t really feel town but also doesn’t scream scum to me which is what I would expect from scum bugs (maybe a tiny bit concerning that I don’t want to yeet bugs harder, à la my T3 read)
Which leaves like (you, VFP, burger) where I think burger could be town who scum are circling around as a compromise D1 lim which then leaves me with... you and VFP neither of which have posted anything that made me go “hmm that seemed like a town thought” and you specifically haven’t said anything that makes me think your town in your responses to me, just like you’re not giving up and rolling over
Where Menalque admits that all his reasons were wrong and it all just comes down to vibes, which is not at all what he is saying here. This one had multiple parts so there's the "you're fishing for t3/the game to spill hood info" which is just completely wrong and unreasonable, there's also the "you should have taken t3's CC as a joke if you're town" despite it not being a joke that I correctly read as serious, and then "asking t3 what happened in his hood is fishing for info again how dare you try to sort someone based on other information in a hood" part 2: electric boogaloo.
Menalque wrote:
In post 512, Dwlee99 wrote:Here's the sucking up progression, which ends with you admitting it was dumb and wrong/a misread but here you are still trying to say it's scummy like I can't refind these posts
I mean I said the "you being complimentary" bit was dumb but I don't think that the "being supportive of what me and mom were saying from early on" is wrong, I think you just haven't been able to sustain that on me bc I'm pushing you anyway and bc mom hasn't ended up being a priority for you in the end bc she ducked out of the game
I
wasn't
supportive of anything you were saying early on because I explicitly pushed back on you trying to get bugspray to E-1. You're literally making stuff up to justify something you already recognized as incorrect previously in the thread.
Menalque wrote:
In post 513, Dwlee99 wrote:Next up is "dwlee and VFP are scum trying to have low-effort interaction in thread" which is just a dumb argument and I don't think he can honestly believe it
Spoiler:
In post 364, Menalque wrote:I don't like the Nathan wagon, VFP/dwlee are not really doing The Good Posting and the "VFP sell me on T3 town" seems like a very easy way to have interactions that are very low-stakes and allow the two to interact while also going for a hard pocket
In post 370, Dwlee99 wrote:This Dwlee/VFP scum partners shit is so dumb because if anything they are trying to buddy me.
anyway I'm tilted beyond belief due to the wrap up of ferry's tarot u-pick so I'm ducking out, may be around tomorrow
In post 373, Dwlee99 wrote:Menalque your theory rn is that I told my buddy to convince me of a read in thread just for me to essentially go "meh" on the entire thing.
In post 373, Dwlee99 wrote:Menalque your theory rn is that I told my buddy to convince me of a read in thread just for me to essentially go "meh" on the entire thing.
Yeh
I mean I think scum often look to have some sort of interaction with their buddy in thread that will make it harder to ID them if someone goes down, and I think you/VFP had enough people SRing/SLing you that you would want to cloud the associations
however I think scum tend to find talking to each other awkward a lot of the time and one way around that is to answer like ~easy questions~ being posed to each other or to just get one to talk without really trying to pick them up on anything or to delve into what they're thinking, which I think fits you trying to look like you're having engagement with VFP without really sorting them in the process
If VFP flips scum be my guest and try to paint me as scum with them but like we're in a hood together so we've had interactions in-thread and out-of-thread and we've talked there too.
In post 516, Dwlee99 wrote:Where Menalque admits that all his reasons were wrong and it all just comes down to vibes, which is not at all what he is saying here. This one had multiple parts so there's the "you're fishing for t3/the game to spill hood info" which is just completely wrong and unreasonable, there's also the "you should have taken t3's CC as a joke if you're town" despite it not being a joke that I correctly read as serious, and then "asking t3 what happened in his hood is fishing for info again how dare you try to sort someone based on other information in a hood" part 2: electric boogaloo.
I... never said all my reasons were wrong and it just comes down to vibes? I said that if I need to give like One Big Reason why you're scum then it's hard to say any ONE thing is the hard reason why I think you're scum, and what I was trying to get at there is that its more like there are a number of ~bits~ that feel off and include stuff like the way you're approaching these posts and this back and forth -- as if, should you manage to find the slightest bit of flawed reasoning or me getting something wrong, that should invalidate everything I'm saying, and I think you're just upset that I can be "wrong" to be SRing you fypov while still being entirely right that you're scum. I think the reasons why I've caught you are perfectly valid, I think you just don't think they are. like this includes stuff being pingy about how you were trying to solicit more information about setup stuff (which again, how is that beneficial? something you clearly know because you didn't share your "conftown" info to main thread -- which, side point, is actually scummy to share to bugs and VFP privately imo, and feels like a pocket attempt on bugs which I also think makes sense if you and VFP are scum together)
In post 516, Dwlee99 wrote:I wasn't supportive of anything you were saying early on because I explicitly pushed back on you trying to get bugspray to E-1. You're literally making stuff up to justify something you already recognized as incorrect previously in the thread.
bruh you put down the hurt vote on bugs to show like tacit support while avoiding doing anything substantive like actually making the vote
if you already knew bugs was conftown why not like, push back against things?
In post 516, Dwlee99 wrote:f VFP flips scum be my guest and try to paint me as scum with them but like we're in a hood together so we've had interactions in-thread and out-of-thread and we've talked there too.
would prefer to flip you first and then establish if it's definitely VFP scum with you or if I need to re-examine bugs or burger
If I find one bit of flawed reasoning it's not that it instantly invalidates everything. It's that you have huge gaps in your reasoning you never patch and just chug through on anyway. That's not a town thought process, that's pushing a miselim through.
If I was scum or non-informed town I would have just voted bugs there. I normally vote early wagons so it wouldn't look out of place for me to do it there. That I didn't is exactly as much info as I can give without going "don't vote bugs *wink wink*"
I think you're just salty that I don't explain every reason for why I think what I do or that sometimes I follow my intuition on things being ~wrong~ because you can't actually defeat that, so you're forced to try to combat my push on you by clinging to "this isn't reasonable!" which ehh at points maybe? like my concern is always more with seeing the person I want limmed actually limmed than being super concerned about making sure that I'm presenting a perfectly i's dotted and t's crossed argument to everyone on why that should happen
but that doesn't make me scum, that's v much how I approach all my pushes and is part of how I scum hunt -- if I suddenly feel that I'm going down the wrong track, because a certain post rings true to me, I'll radically reverse. that hasn't happened at all the whole time I've been pushing you/regarding the way that you've been trying to fight back against me and survive
and like... I just don't find that plausible? I think that if you have the role you're claiming then you don't make a post that's like, broadly supportive of the bugs wagon taking place there I think you try to like, idk, push more strongly onto someone else? I feel like you're trying to recharacterise your opening behaviour to explain something that would otherwise be v incongruent with ur claim
You've had multiple points where you should have stopped and gone "oh yea this is an unreasonable thing I'm pushing and it makes no sense." You haven't done that. Like I can see people scumreading me sometimes (normally I think I obvtown but this game it's been dead and the apathy is thick) but the way you're doing it is just wrong. Not only that, you're doing what I'm going to call the pooky tell where you literally just hard focus on one player to make it seem like you're doing more than you are. It's an easy way for scum to blend in because you don't have to actually do anything other than quote their posts and say they should die.
And again like, it's not like I'm saying your argument needs to be perfectly reasoned with citations or something, I'm saying if you're town I expect it to follow a path of logic that I can follow. At multiple points you completely lose me on what you're even thinking (like when you think I'm scum because I try to sort t3).
And again I made sure bugs was never in danger of actually getting yeeted there which is all that matters to me because I'm not trying to get conftown night killed immediately.
"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."
