Mini Theme 2222: Open Draft Mafia [Game Over]

[T3]

@T3: This post specifically looks bad in my eyes. It kinda "feels" (GOD, how I hate that word being used to explain a read) like paranoid scum cracking under pressure.

cyrus please unvote me. You're voting me for a bad reason.

I am even considering voting you to try and even the scales between your wagon and Norwee's for future analysis.

No. cyrus is town voting me for a really terrible reason.

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Count 1.14

[3] NorwegianboyEE: mastina, Flea The Magician, Taly
[3] T3: Dwlee99, cyrus62, NorwegianboyEE
[1] mastina: Dunnstral
[1] Almost50: Almost50
[1] Dwlee99: Infinity 324
[1] NDMath: T3
[1] Infinity 324: Bingle
[0] Taly:
[0] House:
[0] Flea The Magician:
[0] Bingle:
[0] cyrus62:
[0] Dunnstral:

Not voting: House, NDMath

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-07-20 22:28:21).

[cyrus62]

VOTE: t3

[cyrus62]

Lol . ...

[cyrus62]

VOTE: infinity I'll put my vote back on my top scum read for a bit.

[MURDERCAT]

Taly and mastina have been prodded and have (expired on 2021-07-17 22:24:23) to post before being replaced.

[T3]

cyrus, please listen. I think Infinity has a good and very strong meta case for her being town.

[House]

I am sooo lost here. Since I last posted my readlist I've basically been trying to narrow down my PoE by focusing on my suspects and trying to figure them out. The result was catastrophic, as I now have only 2SRs left, which made me not only suspect I TR'd one of my former suspects too soon, but also made me suspect I may have had one scum on my initial jury!!

In short: I am TRing -to various degrees- Flea, Infinity, Norwee, cyrus & Bingle, leaving only Dunn & Dwlee from my initial PoE. I am reconsidering T3 specifically from my intial jusry pool, although T3 was in my top 3 TRs.

So let's say I have 3 pools now:

The Jury:

House mastina Taly NDMath

Pool of Turmoil:

Flea Bingle Infinity cyrus Momrangal/NorwEE T3

Pool of Suspects:

Dunn Dwlee

I'm pretty sure cyrus is town. Moreso than mastina. Not that I'm particularly sus of her, I'm just hard townreading cyrus.

[House]

I kinda want to do the lightning rod play again where I play with my cards face up, but I won't be taking scummy roles because of one person deciding to strike my death knell.

Please don't. Scum having imperfect information is a huge net positive for town.

This is going to be hard to translate from brain to screen, so bear with me.

The theory last time would be I openly declare and take any/all negative roles, this means scum have to avoid giving me certain roles and limits their pack rotation knowing that any role that comes to me is lost.

Roles don't evolve in this game, so I can't be strung up by town for declaring an evolved role.

By play mechanically I took an optimal line and denying scum certain options (godfathers, post restrictions on town, vote restrictions on town).

And I stand by that now.

I like this post from flea, and I think it's a mechanically sound strategy for everyone.

If we all burn our pro-scum roles the day we get them, it will greatly limit scum's power.

It would also force scum to play in a way that may be suboptimal to avoid outing themselves.

If we can get a consensus on this, I think we should start doing so tonight.

[T3]

Cyrus just isn't capable of manipulating his meta. He'll always be extremely easy to read.

[Bingle]

Spoiler:

A50 could be scum, I feel like it's mostly a matter of the people who know a50 best and mastina/bingle think he's town so.

I feel similar about norwee tbh. I feel like at this point in the day I'm ok just limming anyone outside of my townreads because I don't think I'm gonna get a good scumread.

Do you townread norwee?

All these wagons are meh to bad

VOTE: dwlee

I'm gonna take a look a norwee's scum games. I was under the impression he just does nothing as scum.

If his scum game is at all comparable to his play here, I could be ok voting him. He still feels quite towny to me but mastina is very town and very confident, I have a lot of townreads I feel comfortable with, and this game is gonna go nowhere otherwise.

Mastina can you give a summary of how you feel norwee tends to play as town and how he's playing here?

For me, it's basically: he tends to act as a spectator and gives his thoughts as the game goes along, showing his solving process along the way. He doesn't say everything that he's thinking but you get the impression he's thinking behind the scenes.

Here he seems to be playing pretty similarly to me, although the spectator narrative isn't really the same because he's being pushed. Still, the part about not laying out his whole thought process is definitely there.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Norwee's scumgame kinda looks like his towngame tbh, except less

Norwee do you want to help me start a wagon?

Mastina and taly are off the table though.

I'm a sucker for town cases, also the way he's playing feels like bored town trying to find a productive angle.

The other option is that I vote you.

Why is scum!norwee not using me as a liferaft here?

@Norwee: progression that feels halfassed.

[Bingle]

Spoiler:

Jesus Christ don't claim roles now scum can roleblock you and give you a fake guilty

mod said only 65 roles are in play 13 x 5 = 65 and when I look at the wiki it said 1 rb you realize scum infinity would have realized I stated I had a investigated role more then once . But shouted out the role blocker after I said I was going check them to try and set up a chance to say a fake guilty.

Dude you didn't specify what your investigative did, most investigatives don't give you a fake guilty when you get RBed

I mean everyone was like a50 is helping town with that play

I never fucking said that

Check me all you want, just don't claim your cards. Not that hard

Posts that feel disproportionate.

[Bingle]

I like this post from flea, and I think it's a mechanically sound strategy for everyone.

A mechanically sound strategy is making the best call based on the pack you have and not dreaming the thread with pointless mech discussion.

Grand sweeping strategies just give scum a roadmap to play around town’s night actions.

[Bingle]

cyrus, please listen. I think Infinity has a good and very strong meta case for her being town.

Lynx?

[House]

I like this post from flea, and I think it's a mechanically sound strategy for everyone.

A mechanically sound strategy is making the best call based on the pack you have and not dreaming the thread with pointless mech discussion.

Grand sweeping strategies just give scum a roadmap to play around town’s night actions.

I'm confused.

How is locking scum out of their best roles early not optimal play?

[Bingle]

Full accountability for scum roles picked post n1 unless scum passes to scum and the disproportionate amount of utility of power in towns hands.

Also stop rolefishing and scumhunt.

[cyrus62]

X =y over c to the next power .

[House]

Full accountability for scum roles picked post n1 unless scum passes to scum and the disproportionate amount of utility of power in towns hands.

Also stop rolefishing and scumhunt.

It's hardly rolefishing when the game is role madness.

EVERYBODY has a PR. I'm not in here asking people WHAT their roles ARE.

Chill with the LAMIST bullshit.

[mastina]

I'm sure Mastina gave at least a reason in those walls but too bad I cannot read

And that T3 is Mr flip flop to the extreme.
How many times are you going to change your vote in response to what’s fucking convenient? So Mastina puts traction on me and then you vote me, people vote Mastina and then you suddenly decide to vote Mastina and re-evaluate me. Which ok, kinda sus but ok. But now again you suddenly acts like you scumread me all along. Nah fuck this fam.
VOTE: T3

For the record regardless of T3's alignment this reads as incredibly insincere from Norwee.

What’s the chances your claims at "difference" is just me trying to play the game differently and coming in with a rough start because people thought my entrance was scummy?

Very low imo.

I feel you should be able to go down the list you gave "in tone, in content, in posting, in everything." and say "norwee's tone is much more {describing words} this game than as town", "norwee's content is focused on w and x instead of y and z", etc.

I might be able to do this when I'm not posting explicitly due to having gotten a prod and being unable to wait until tomorrow to post in order to avoid replacement. (Which is to say, I am very very tired already, it's literally 1:30 am and I feel like it's 4:30 am, and I already don't feel like logging in today, I just have no choice if I don't want to be replaced. So doing this, can't do tonight but doing this, might be possible in the near future, just not tonight.)

[mastina]

Mastina had an game previous where they scumread town!me.
Was it Mbos?

Edit: Yep it was Mbos.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84589&hilit=+Mastina

You and I apparently have very different definitions of scumreads, mate.

In that game, you were in my POE but I never voted you on D1 at all, and never intended to, and you were near the top of the POE the entire time, and overnight in our PT I reiso'd you and concluded you were town. (It was a moot point as you became conftown on D2 anyway but the fact is I did place you as town during N1, before D2.)

[mastina]

Pool of Suspects:

Dunn Dwlee

I mean Dunnstral and Dwlee are the slots doing the least right now so by that metric they would be sus, but I'm not sure that's the metric to use on D1 especially in this gamestate.

[Dwlee99]

I agree with Bingle that those posts feel weirdly disproportional but I need more words I think for the progression post. I don't really get what is half-assed about it.

[cyrus62]

D2 rolls around bingel still lives along with dun and there was a diffent night kill both will be highly sus.

[NDMath]

agh I'm not sure what I want to d

[NDMath]

UNVOTE:

I’m super disengaged, but that looks like townstina so I should probably reset here.

Can you walk me through this since I'm less familiar with mastina & it's the set of posts I had the opposite reaction to?